Thunder 98, Bulls 85: oh no, we suck again
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2010 10:43 PM CST
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Print| Pace | Eff | eFG | FT/FG | OREB% | TOr | |
| Oklahoma City | 92.0 | 106.5 | 53.7% | 12.2 | 32.5 | 21.7 |
| Chicago | 92.4 | 36.9% | 12.1 | 41.7 | 15.2 |
Alright, forget whatever I wrote about Rose's new mentality and how he'd singlehandedly take the Bulls on his back nightly. Of course, it's unfair to expect it every game, but with him shooting 9-20 and only attempting one free-throw in 36 minutes, the Bulls reverted back (after a very good first quarter) to being the eyesore offense we've seen most of this season.
Thabo Sefolosha is a good defender, and his length can particularly bother Rose's sometimes suspect handles, but the quickness advantage wasn't exploited, and there's no excuse for him not to score for 2 and a half quarters. Except the excuse of his coach not making any adjustments to help him get open, I suppose. Rose, entering in the fourth with his team down 14, provided a brief glimpse of hope with several baskets, and nearly missed a layup that would've cut the lead to 8. But afterwards and after those baskets he simply wasn't getting the ball enough late, taking two more attempts in the final 4+ minutes.
That last part being especially curious since these same teammates seemed afraid to shoot for most of the game. I know Tyrus Thomas was terrible shooting tonight (3-12), but at least he was trying to provide offense, in with lineups of guys afraid to shoot at all (not that he had good selection either). Brad Miller was especially guilty of this, looking like he was taking tonight off. John Salmons always passes up open looks for tougher ones. Taj is actually rarely afraid to shoot, though I think he had 12 straight attempts blocked under the rim (sometimes by the rim itself). Honestly, with Rose drifting until the game was nearly out of hand, Kirk Hinrich was their best perimeter player tonight (Noah with another solid game too, but limited to 30 minutes due to foul trouble).
Unfortunately that's what on Rose's shoulders with this offensive cast, and tonight he couldn't sustain his increased efficiency of the previous few games. I'm not pointing this out to knock his inability to do so tonight, but to say the team's offense almost always requires him to do so. Vinny post-game lamented the Bulls inability to make shots, as if a good offense is entirely serendipitous. With Rose not dynamically altering opposing defenses, the Bulls have no answers, certainly not from the coach.
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Trade Tyrus.
I was patient and I defended him from the haters, but after 4 YEARS!! of him not using his brain he needs to be traded for someone who CAN use their brain!
by T.Moore on Jan 4, 2010 10:47 PM CST reply actions 5 recs
tyrus had the same basic problems rose had: the paint was clogged b/c okc realized
the bulls couldnt shoot. it would have been nice if the bulls had some more complex sets, perhaps a plan B or C even, but the offensive powers are dim here. vinny is terrible but the losses are mostly not his fault, if that makes sense.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
He has been doing this for years.
This is the player that he is going to be. He never even try to go into the paint. He never THINKS I’m done with him. He played like a pussy this game at least Rose tried to go inside. With all that physical talent and has not improved in 2 YEARS? This is NOT the first time he has played like this he has been doing this for most of his career! He is what he is, the next Stromile Swift
even if you're right (and i dont think you are), id be ok with that. stro swift was ok.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
Here
Where is Stromile Swift now?
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Jan 4, 2010 11:13 PM CST up reply actions
on offense Tyrus should be a finisher, but he tries too hard to be a "starter", know what i'm sayin?
he should never touch the ball early in the shot clock under any circumstance, except for when receiving the ball with a wide open path to the basket.
Exactly
I use put some of the blame on the coach. But after again 4 YEARS of him doing the same thing. Shooting jumper after jumper and when he misses 10 times he shoots it again. I’m done with him I can understand why Taj is starting over Tyruse. Tyrus is more talented but I see Taj TRY to go inside and most important of all he actually THINKS unlike Tyrus.
i didnt think thabo was that great, i thought it was more the aggressive rotations of the
okc bigs that did rose in. that and he never really tried to go at thabo for like 25 mins. teams have put bigs on rose before (kobe comes to mind) and rose just zooms by them; tonight i just think the paint was too packed to move in.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
Thabo wasn't "great"
but he was definitely bothering Rose. If you blacked out the rest of the screen (aside from Rose), you would have been able to tell if it was Thabo or Westbrook/Maynor guarding him.
That, combined with Serge Ibaka/Collison physically dominating every Bulls frontcourt player not named Noah will equal a loss on most nights, even without Westbrook and Durant scoring 20.
James Harden is a really nice player, too.
Never die easy. Why run out of bounds and die easy? Make that Linebacker pay. It carries into all facets of your life. It's okay to lose, to die, but don't die without trying, without giving it your best.- Walter Payton
Derrick "issuing a warning" to other teams kinda jinxed it. He shouldve kept quiet and just do his thing
he was at it at the first quarter, then he disappeared.
If I think of nothing, am I thinking?
Remember that stinker Game 3 from last years playoffs
that was right after Derrick receives the ROY award. and he received the player of the week award today.
Just sayin
"You can't give up hope just because it's hopeless! You gotta hope even more, and cover your ears and go 'bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla!'"
and at this point of the thread ^^
I think this was the worst start of post-game commenting ever.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 4, 2010 11:21 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Give it time
I’ll add one for ya, Bring back the Noc!
I still do miss Nocioni….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
And not that he'd help us I might add
But the only time I’ve seen him this year was when he was absolutely TERRIBLE against us in that should have been win that turned into a nightmarish loss…
Oh well….I just wish Pax didn’t overpay him so much as I’d much rather see Noc off the bench than Johnson, etc….I guess maybe he’s just been terrible in general this year….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
tyrus wasn't just terrible shooting tonight
he turned the ball over a lot and just generally looked like an absolute fool out on the floor. true, most of the bulls played poorly tonight, brad miller is virtually useless and john salmons is only slightly less useless, but tyrus distinguished himself tonight.
Salmosn
Of late had been playing better…but then tonight nothing was falling at all and he did as yfbb said just tried too hard to make an easy look turn into an impossible shot opp. Many teams he can drive for a better look, but the way OKC was crashing the middle, he couldn’t…yet HE didn’t adjust his game at all….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Salmonella
I like it. I will use it when he blows.
When he does gooder, I will continue to refer to him as Fish
Tyrus shouldn't read anything Sam Smith writes about Taj
Not that anyone should read Sam at all, but especially not Tyrus.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
Nice Recap
VDN doesn’t understand game flow, adjustments, and a number of other things. But i just want to focus on game flow and adjustments. A few examples -
1. Adjustments – I was screaming for it during the game, and I will scream for it afterwards – I don’t know why VDN doesn’t put Hinrich on opposing point guards running the pick and roll when he sees Rose struggling. It is especially suspect tonight, because we all know Thabo has no offensive game. You could put anyone on Thabo and it wouldn’t matter. Why waste your best defensive guard on that assignment? I’m not saying Hinrich would have stopped Westbrook – but he is your best perimeter defender. Give it a shot.
2. Game flow – In the 3rd quarter the Bulls were extremely flat. Rose was being passive and the only player doing anything was Hinrich. So of course, that is the perfect time to sit Hinrich for Salmons. Rose continued to pass the ball to the wings, Salmons and Deng continued to miss jump shots – lead grows. VDN should have left Hinrich in and sat Rose, told him to hurry up and get aggressive (why wait to the 4th?), and we maybe could have stopped the bleeding while we had a chance.
3. Adjustments – when OKC put Thabo on Rose, they also starting doubling the pick and roll, or at least, have the big man show hard. Thus we ended up with Taj and Tyrus clanking a bunch of midrange jumpers. He should have cleared out for Rose more and let him take Thabo. Thabo is good, but he has slow feet. No way he can stay with Rose on an island.
by Basketball Smurf on Jan 4, 2010 10:55 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
i didnt think derrick was totally to blame for westbrook going off. 1) he made shots he doesnt
normally make and 2) i calculate westbrook got 8-10 pts on 4-5 shots just on uncontested layups. the bigs were sloppy tonight defensively (not okc’s though!) still youre right that hinrich should have been on westbrook, if only to save derricks legs for all the offensive work he needed to do, cause this was a game for derrick to take about 25 shots.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
Well said Smurf
The adj. has to be by Tyrus and Taj. To swing the ball. Its 4-3 for a few seconds. You don’t have to shoot it.
Or drive past Krstic or Collison or the African guy, geez they are not all world defenders.
Then when TT does drive he runs over collison.
VDN's adustments consist of telling the team to "thrust" instead of "attack."
Anyone else notice how bad VDN is at calling plays coming out of a TO? How many different plays do the Bulls run during a game, 2, 3? It’s true that the players share a lot of blame in all this but the coach needs to put players in a position where they have a chance of succeeding and VDN is failing in this regard. His lack of in-game adjustments are partially to blame for all these third and fourth quarter collapses.
With Derrick, it comes down to a matter of recognition,
which he’d likely be better at if he had a good coach.
I didn’t watch the entire game, but I saw most of it, and I saw OKC force the issue by creating mismatches. Westbrook forced the Bulls bigs to switch to him, and then feasted on them(though he didn’t exactly have much trouble going by our guards, either). I saw Harden and Durant create some switches as well. All three of those guys are young, so experience shouldn’t be an explanation as to why they do it and the Bulls don’t. Derrick, on the other hand, doesn’t create enough mismatches. I’ve seen the Bulls force switches to get Luol down on the blocks against smaller defenders, but due to Luol’s skill set that doesn’t result in as many point as it should. When the Bulls are struggling, the priority should be to get a big to set a pick for Derrick and then roll hard. Either the guard falls back and the big is on Derrick of the guard stays up and the picker is open. It should be that easy. Instead, our bigs linger on pick and rolls and the guard has enough time to stay with Derrick. That’s just one of the many things that Vinny could have his players do but doesn’t.
Oh, and as much as I like Tyrus, he needs to stop hanging out on the perimeter. That said, I fully expect him to continue to do so, as he’s been told that since he came into the league, first by Skiles and (presumably) now by Vinny,
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
In TT's defense
About 3 of his jumpers were with the shot clock going down.
I’ve said this a thousand times, you can still play through the post, even if the players are limited.
When you see 4,5 possessions of failed jumpers, there is nothing wrong with throwing it to Noah, Taj, even Miller, or yelling at TT to post his man. Deng, Salmons too. Fuck throw it to Rose against the opposing point.
1) The Defense will collapse, even if its a little.
2) A pass out from a post player is easier to catch and shoot (I don’t have statistical proof, its just intuitive)
3) You might score! Against Krstic or Collison? Come on man. Wear them out.
4) Chance of getting fouled goes way up. Esp. for TT
You score 2 free throws.
It also disrupts the defense and they can’t be set with all eyes on Rose.
Jesus, have Noah or Brad pick TT’s man on the way to the post and you get deep position. Its a simple game.
The word "coach" should
always be in parentheses when referring to VDN. : (
the Bulls have no answers, certainly not from the coach.
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
VDN is a coach in title,
not ability or performance.
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Jan 4, 2010 11:15 PM CST up reply actions
maybe it should always be in quotes
like, someone’s claling it that, but that doesn’t mean that’s what he really is
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
atleast they sustained the effort for 48mins
unlike a couple of weeks ago where they seem to have just given up. they were just missing shots that they usually hit and us on the losing end on borderline calls.
Its a given that our coach suck and our management suck even more. But as long as I see 100% effort from the players, I guess thats all I wanna see.
Johnson, although didn’t do anything on the stat sheet is starting to improve and get comfortable. I still wish we drafted blair but I still think Johnson will give solid 15mins by the 2nd half of the season
Blair's been good, but the better fit for us would be Casspi.
He’s been a dead-eye three point shooter and brings a lot of hustle, not to mention he’d be an excellent SF/PF off of the bench. How much better off would we be with a Casspi/Lawson combo instead of Johnson/Gibson?
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
what's the stretch about it
to this point he’s been a LOT better than JJ.
Never die easy. Why run out of bounds and die easy? Make that Linebacker pay. It carries into all facets of your life. It's okay to lose, to die, but don't die without trying, without giving it your best.- Walter Payton
I think the speculation is a stretch.
by Super-Structure on Jan 5, 2010 12:13 AM CST up reply actions
Why?
He was really good back in Maccabi Tel Aviv(I saw him play a couple of times, a couple israeli relatives sent me vid of him online) and was a beast in pre-draft camps, literally. I certainly wanted the Bulls to take him.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
can we trade our best defender and athletic JJ for him?
When did he go in the draft again? Win for team paxdorf!
I can accept this loss
I said, coming into these first games of the new year, that splitting against Orlando and OKC is acceptable.
Never die easy. Why run out of bounds and die easy? Make that Linebacker pay. It carries into all facets of your life. It's okay to lose, to die, but don't die without trying, without giving it your best.- Walter Payton
Really, after the 4 wins and Rose playing so well, you can accept this?
Shooting 35%? Not knowing how to get better shots?
I can accept it so much
as I’m not as pissed off about the shittiness of the team as I would have been 2 weeks ago, when Rose was completely listless. Now he’s just partially so.
Never die easy. Why run out of bounds and die easy? Make that Linebacker pay. It carries into all facets of your life. It's okay to lose, to die, but don't die without trying, without giving it your best.- Walter Payton
yeah I'm not as bummed with the loss as the play of Tyrus Thomas.
I have been backing him a lot and I just wonder why each game he’s regressed. Maybe he thought he’d win his starting job back and now it just seems like they’re sending the message to Tyrus himself that they aren’t bring him back. So… we get this sir shootsalot. I think he trying to either say fuck this or he’s feeling pressure to play well.
But I’m not jumping on the trade Tyrus bandwagon yet.
They were just out talented tonight.
Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever.
TT thinks he's a #2 lottery pick
oh…wait he was.
So He really wants to be the man.
agreed
Tyrus will always have the chance to be the man on any team because of his athletic gifts.
He’s a top ten athlete in the NBA right now. There will never be team that doesn’t think they can teach tyrus what the Bulls haven’t.
by Bulls Mouthpiece on Jan 5, 2010 12:35 AM CST up reply actions
agreed, OKC is a good team
listening to Stacey and Neil say that this was a must-win, easy win for the bulls made me sick
felt good to be at the game
though I could’ve sworn I heard Neil say ’that’s a bad shot’ from the 300 level
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2010 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
Deng is seriously very bad
Wow is this guy stealing from the org. I can’t believe we have this guy for what 5 more years!
As I’m trying to write how bad he is I can’t attack him from one angle. There are too many reasons why he sucks. So in my frustration I’ll do it numerically.
1) He has no natural basketball feel.
2) Soft on the defensive end. Doesn’t know how to play help defense.
3) Jealous of Rose. <Wasn’t this basically documented last year. Dude would rather lose and score 35 than win a score 5…I really believe that.
4) Stats come when game is meaningless.
5) Soft around the rim. Hardly ever dunks with authority. Lays it up all the time when he’s 6’9.
6) Gets in Roses way on the offensive end. Either doesn’t cut at the right time or cuts right into where Rose is driving.
7) He literally has no moves to get past his man. The only way is by cutting or doing a hard dribble with the defensive player riding him all the way to the rim for a floater or layup.
8) Asissting is non-existent with him. When do you ever see a nice or creative pass?? Not never!
Deng is a Fraud!
I seriously think this guy is a cancer to the team with his mentality and play.
He is dime a dozen at the small forward position, but the fact that we got this guy for the next 5 years (I think )s really pissing me off!
I have a strong dislike for the way he plays the game.
by Bulls Mouthpiece on Jan 5, 2010 12:27 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
forgot to add what he actually is good at to be kinda fair, sorry
He does have a very nice 22 jumper. I will give him that.
But you need to be more than a one trick pony for the money he makes.
by Bulls Mouthpiece on Jan 5, 2010 12:29 AM CST up reply actions
Everything you said is TRUTH
He plays hard too.
He’s the type of player that will have 23 pts with zero impact on the game.
Today he had 10 rebounds I believe, so it may look like he’s a good player, and his PER is ok, but he’s not.
SF is the least important position, we need to fool somebody and move him out. You can get the best SF in the Dleague to replace him.
Yeah it's not like he doesn't try...
he just doesn’t have enough basketball ability to make it in the NBA. and IMO he never will. He’s going to get progressively worse, mark my words. This was a god awful signing. If I had the choice I would’ve def signed Gordon (who is a baller) for a slightly inflated contract over Deng who has no true intrinsic basketball feel.
At least Gordon has a skill set of being an amazing shooter…what does Deng have??? I’m waiting…………………………..nothing. like you said d leaguer if he wasn’t Sudanese. Sorry if this is disrespectful Matt.
by Bulls Mouthpiece on Jan 5, 2010 12:46 AM CST up reply actions
Beautifully said
not to mention the shoe tying episode, but on a fast break I believe in the third he refused to pass to Rose, and when I saw rose look away in disgust, I decided we have a problem on this team, they have not bought into the idea of this being Rose’s team and they are disjointed and until that problem is solved we are going to have this problem, somebody has to go.
by sugarbear06 on Jan 5, 2010 9:00 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This is a big problem with Deng
He thinks he’s the best on the team! Nobody ever sent him the memo! The way he gets away with all this is from his public image of being a goodie tuchews and an nba cares guy. He clearly is not. But the fact that he sucks at basketball for the amount he makes causes him to be a fake.
There will always be chemistry issues with him, thats the type of person he is.
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Think back for me to last year towards the end of the year and playoffs…we were playing pretty good ball, had great chemistry, winning record. Guess who was missing from that equation….DENG!!!!!
by Bulls Mouthpiece on Jan 5, 2010 6:10 PM CST up reply actions
Are you sure Reinsdorf didn't tell Deng to go justify his contract?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Deng and Hinrich are big reason why the Bulls can't get better.
Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever.
I agree
But at least with Hinrich he’s at the end of his contract. With Deng there is no end in sight.
by Bulls Mouthpiece on Jan 5, 2010 12:48 AM CST up reply actions
thats what she said
sorry couldnt resist….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Deng is horrible, absolutely horrible to watch!
It pains me to my core to watch him play knowing what the team pays him. I want to slap him in his face every time he considers playing for G. Britain. It appears as though he has a high basketball IQ, but his legs are shot (slow as a turtle), and he has no ability to create for himself. He was only observed as a good player due to (A) the product of much better coaching and a real offensive philosophy (Skiles), and (B) having a cast of good role playing forwards to hide behind (Noc, Tim Thomas, Tyrus Thomas, PJ Brown, Ben Wallace, Joe Smith). All those guys could produce something on demand weather it is a short range jump shot, rebounds, defensive presence, something. He basically floated around and picked up the scraps. Now that he has to produce on demand his weaknesses are exposed, and they are a plenty.
I would really like to see a D. Rose, K. Hinrich, J. Johnson, T. Thomas and J. Noah lineup. I think the passing from on-ball and off-ball picks would be better along with the defensive rotations. The key thing that the other players (Salmons, Grey, Miller and Gibson) steal from this team, with their non-athletic ability, is energy . I think OKC beat us because they simply had better athletes.
by mastergabe13 on Jan 5, 2010 7:23 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
how'd you come up with no natural basketball feel??
just so you know deng has the best adjusted plus/minus on the team this season.
not sure if the adjusted plus/minus means as much to you as the discernable “basketball feel” quality.
I read that on espn too
but its the same stat that said that the Thunder was better without Durant the last two years. And Noah is a -15 this year.
still the fact that deng's plus/minus is as good as it is
is something to take note of
at... 23.5
what’s that standard error mean, then?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
That 0.2% of the time
a player with that description (23.5 APM, 8.06 SE) has an actual APM of less than 0. That 0.5% of the time the actual APM is less than +3.
So there’s a pretty strong chance that Luol’s actual APM has been pretty high this year, but with 400+ guys in the NBA, a few players will end up as those 0.5% outliers, and with no other stats or history to support Luol’s APM, I’m guessing he’s there or near there in the luck department.
Because the bigger issue with the standard error is the reason why the standard error is so high. Only four of Luol’s lineups have been on the floor for over 50 minutes this season, so the sample size of lineups used to separate players from teammates is tinier than tiny. And looking at his lineup plusminuses, you can see why his APM is so high. The starting lineup is -45, and nearly all his lesser-used lineups are positive. It’s the same reason why in 2006 Rasheed Wallace ( +20) and Ben Wallace ( +18) were the #1 and #3 APM players and Richard Hamilton (-18) was dead last. There was one highly used lineup, and the regression had too little info from the lesser used lineups to correctly divvy up value.
But there's a 68% chance that he's between 15.5 and 31.5, right?
And a > 95% chance that 7.5 or higher, right? He’s been a positive plus-minus his entire career, even when he was absolutely horrible last year.
He’s been pretty good in his career, despite being un-athletic and having no innate basketball feel.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Well 68% chance that he's been between 15.5 and 31.5 through 30 games
But a player’s APM through 30 games can have nothing to do with a player’s actual value. Luck happens. Look at batting average for balls in play (BABIP) in baseball for example. Some guys hit .300 in a year, but when controlled for BABIP that can drop to .265. So not only is there than 8.06 SE, but you can add in another massive standard error from luck in a small sample size.
It sounded like Bulls Mouthpiece was frustrated that Deng’s here forever on a huge contract more than anything else. I agree with you, I think Deng’s better than he’s given credit for on here. Whether he works longterm as a fit with Rose and Noah, I’m not sure. Put Deng on a team that spaces the floor better like the Raptors or Magic and I think he’d be killer.
And its not only that he's unathletic
Its that he doen’t know where to be half the time.
The guy has zero ability to improvise. Thats why when his jumper isn’t falling, which let me remind you is given to him the majority of the time because somebody draws a double team from penetrating, he is lost. He either drives to the basket with his eyes looking down at the ball or disappears.
Trust me. I really wanted him to be good but the guy doesn’t have basketball bone in his body…soccor yes, basketball not a chance.
And like YaoPau said if he doesn’t make this much money for five years I wouldn’t care as much. But this is a huge huge problem that the Bulls will eventually not deal with.
by Bulls Mouthpiece on Jan 5, 2010 6:26 PM CST up reply actions
You get this from going to the games and watching him play...
I’ve watched him play pretty much every home game since he was a rookie.
Deng has zero innate basketball ability. His numbers will fool you…
For example last night when we were down 10+ with less than 2:00 minutes to go Deng grabs two rebounds scores two buckets and goes to the line twice, when OKC was relinquishing shots. The game was effectively over but he decides to put it in hyper drive to pad his stats.
Sorry but those plus or minus numbers don’t determine if you are a winner. Which Deng is definitely not…. if you don’t attend games and watch him close up you’re not going to be able to see it from my perspective. I watch him when he doesn’t have the ball as much as when he does. He is consistently out of position on both offense and defense.
As much as I want him to succeed(one of my best friend’s was born in Sudan, but even he is growing tired of his charade) He is garbage!
by Bulls Mouthpiece on Jan 5, 2010 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
Ummm Yes without hesitation
Especially if you could keep Gordons contract the way it is.
pretty sure he makes less per year than Deng.
by Bulls Mouthpiece on Jan 5, 2010 1:03 AM CST up reply actions
can we do it please
deng is awful
by lindseyHuntersBackup on Jan 5, 2010 1:49 AM CST up reply actions
I would without any hesitation
"This is not Vietnam, Smokey, there are rules here." - Walter Sobchak
by Rose Colored Goggles on Jan 5, 2010 1:53 PM CST up reply actions
I finally went to a game tonight
For those who couldn’t see it on TV, holy shit the United Center was empty. A number of 200 level sections were completely empty and seats were filled sporadically in the 100 level, though the 300 level was packed as always with people wondering how they got there. We had four tickets in the 300 level, sat in the quietest section at the UC through the first quarter, and decided to watch the rest of the game from the Madhouse Bar (amazingly, also empty, though I really liked it).
Regardless of what the massaged attendance figures showed (just 2000 unsold seats), the gate receipts had to be way down. The 300 level tickets were going for half price or lower, and the expensive seats weren’t filled. There was a unicycle show at halftime. I left assured that some big moves will be made in the next six months.
As for Rose, he got just the one free throw, but he was attacking the hoop relentlessly even when there wasn’t a clear path. I loved seeing it, and from my view it looked like the refs missed a few fouls. But the best thing I saw from Rose was his staring down the refs after a non call on a few occasions. Typically, he just shakes his head and sprints back on defense. Today he was acting like a prima donna, and that spells good things for his future.
One final note about the Madhouse Bar. In the third quarter, my friend said “Instead of going to a regular bar, if there’s a Bulls game we could just pay $10 for standing room tickets and come to this bar. It’s basically a $10 cover, and instead of a crappy band you see a crappy NBA game.” Boosted attendance figures!
The Bar
I agree, the bar is awesome. The only problem is instead of a $3 well drink you get a $6 Budweiser!
I like all the new additions at the UC on the 300 level. They added a bunch of big screens in the concourse and changed the look entirely.
You have a great idea on the standing room tickets…. Except I won’t be paying money to go until they A) get a new coach, or B) Land a free agent like Joe Johnson etc. who can make us competitive. I was at the Sacramento game, and games like that will break your will to pay even $10 for a ticket!
Yeah there were some completely empty 200-level sections behind the baskets
It didn’t seem much more sparse than usual though.
Keep in mind it was balls fucking cold last night, I don’t think the attendance lag was any kind of ‘statement’. I was actually excited to go yesterday, win streak + Durant and stuff.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2010 10:30 AM CST up reply actions
Don't forget it was a Monday night...
My favorite part of the game was when some dude from the 200 level yelled “FIRE VINNY NOW” as loud as he could when the crowd was silent with about a minute left in the game. And it just happened to be directly above Gar Foremans skybox. Hahahahaa….Foreman just sat there with his hands covering his face without any movement. Classic reaction from the Bulls front office.
by Bulls Mouthpiece on Jan 5, 2010 3:26 PM CST up reply actions
Tyrus was terrible tonight. The haters are out like buzzards circling a corpse.
I cannot make any excuses for him other than to mention his coach doesn’t put him in a position to succeed. But he’s not the only reason the Bulls lost. It is difficult to excel when you get only 21 minutes and have to play most of the time with the other bench players (Miller, Fish, JJ) who collectively shot 2 of 15. Some of his attempts were bailouts because Vinny’s offense is basic and stagnant. If the J’s aren’t falling the offensive sets are galling and appalling.
Many are claiming Taj had another solid game. He had a good start going 4 for 5. It helps to be on the floor surrounded by actual talent, something Tyrus is seldomprivy to thanks to Vinny. However, his final basket was recorded with a little over 3 minutes gone in the 3rd quarter. From that point on he joined the clunker parade, going 0 for 6 but because he’s Taj, very few see that as problamatic.
Why not let TT play with the big boys as a starter and not have the milstone of VinnyDelGenius hanging over him every second before you judge him a failure. If Taj is the answer, maybe he should be the Bulls sparkplug 6th man coming off the bench to provide some energy (and scoring punch?, sarcasm intended). I’m sure he would dazzle his fans like Stacey, Neil and Vinny although the results may not necessarily be reflected in the box scores.
Tyrus may not be consistent but his being jacked around is very consistent and predictable. As soon as he has a solid game, he is inevitibly rewarded by having his minutes cut or is put in a position that will not allow him to maximize his strengths with almost a guarantee his mistakes will be magnified and used as a reason to yank him, unlike some others who don’t have to pay a price when they perform dismally.
Yes, I guess Tyrus should be fed to the buzzards, the sooner the better, for managements sake. Those somewhat lackluster 15 and 21 minute stints in a reserve role should be adequate reason to exile him to the “D” league. If he does have one of his highlight games, all the more reason to cut his minutes. What would actually happen if he was allowed to play starter minutes for awhile (32-36 minutes)? Is it any wonder why he forces things? Maybe he should be more like Brad or Fish. No matter how bad they play, they know the long knives are not awaiting them so they can stink up the place with a more relaxed and controlled pace and be cool with it.
But that still doesn’t change the fact that whatever goes wrong is always mainly Tyrus’s fault, even when he’s not on the court. A bad attitude, like H1N1 is highly contageous.
and a bad coach is more dangerous to the team’s health than the swine flu since there is no vaccination for it unless it is completely eradicated.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Jan 5, 2010 4:18 AM CST reply actions 4 recs
I absolutely agree
It seems as though he is always the after thought. There is no other player on this team that I would want cutting to the basket weather its on pick and rolls, back cuts, baseline screens, doesn’t matter. To not have him around the basket when the offense is in motion is to simply not recognize his POSITIVE abilities. The dude can jump through the roof and finish STRONG, unlike Deng, Noah, or Miller who seem to finish soft around the basket.
why shouldn't tyrus have to earn minutes?
if he played better in his 21 minutes, perhaps he’d get to play more. that’s generally how it works. i don’t think tyrus has done anything over his career thus far to earn him the right to minutes regardless of his play. to suggest that we need to give tyrus more minutes and THEN see how he does is backwards. again, it’s not just his shooting. it’s his butter-fingers, his inability to harness whatever talent he does have, and his general foolishness on the floor.
by John T. Unger on Jan 5, 2010 7:39 AM CST up reply actions
He's the best PF they have.
He “earned” his minutes when he first came back, didn’t he? How many games does he have to play to an All-Star level to get his time?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
by tyger1147 on Jan 5, 2010 8:59 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
no kidding
why don’t they just give him his job back? He was the starter, he was injured, he had some good games upon his return…usually you get to start again.
Vinny just doesn’t like him (and trusts Taj more), and hasn’t since the playoffs last year. The Org. doesn’t care to intervene since they don’t want to pay him next year anyway.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2010 10:33 AM CST up reply actions
I just don't understand the org's attitude to developing players
They invest significant resources acquiring someone and then seem to think they have no responsibility in creating a situation for the player to thrive. I know that everyone loves personal responsibility and so it’s easy for the org to get off the hook in the media — the “if a player fails to develop it’s because that player didn’t work hard enough” spin will work every time to deflect blame. But even if it weren’t the org’s responsibility to develop players, a smart org would do so anyway.
I’d have a lot more sympathy for the view the TT’s lack of game is all on him if I hadn’t seen Gordon get jacked around, JJ clearly falling out of favor mere months after being drafted, and the lack of attention to putting Rose in a situation to develop. They get Rose, and then hire VDN and the next year, they keep him and make the team around Rose worse. When the org’s biggest commitment to developing a potential elite player is to acquire Lindsey Hunter, there are clearly messed up priorities.
by hitlesswonder on Jan 5, 2010 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Has it cost them anything?
They may make oodles of cash throwing away good young players in exchange for new young players.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jan 5, 2010 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
exactly
I expect a Taj quote next training camp saying it’s good for more shots to go around and more guys that care about winning :-)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2010 2:03 PM CST up reply actions
Rec'd
I don’t understand it either because even though JR doesn’t care about the Bulls and is about profit, he could be making even more with a good team.
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
its right out of teh B*)!@& book
vinny is getting desperate
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
TMC I agree with you
Tyrus had a bad game, probably the worst I’ve seen him ever play. His energy didn’t even feel the same, and I think the benching is getting to him. Maybe he’s naive, but he should have known his job would be taken away with that long absence from the team. When he was hurt in the preseason Vinny and company did everything they could to bench him but instead they just took away a chunk of his playing time and Tyrus was playing well in those early seson games. Now however, you have Tyrus fresh off of 21 and 19 point games and he still finds himself on the bench behind a unproven rookie! WTF? Tyrus who helped get the Bulls in the playoffs, who made the game winning shots in game one, who was a defensive force cannot get the starting job over a rookie, do you all know how humiliating that must feel. I have never seen Tyrus play this bad before. He’s watching the rookie get the very first play in these games ran for him in the post, he’s watching the coach give words of praise to Taj, and Taj isn’t anything special. Wasn’t Taj playing when we were getting blown out and losing 35 point leads. I’m telling you guys right now, TT is starting to understand what’s going on and it’s affecting him and I have a feeling TT is gonna regress. I hope he doesn’t, but I cannot see TT succeeding under these conditions and we still have alot of season to play. I think the Bulls need to trade TT away before they ruin his career. He’s already wasted the first 2 and a half seasons with inept coaches, now he’s having this season wasted because the management wants to faze him out in a contract year since they planned a year ago he wouldn’t be returning. Just my opinion, I hope TT does well, but I think this is gonna get real ugly with him.
"We can settle this like you got some class, or we can get into some gangsta sh..."
Goldie from "The Mack"
it seems like basically this:
Tyrus apparently isn’t allowed to have bad games.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2010 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
You don't see Taj Gibson having bad games
Actually, to some extent, that might be sort of true. When the team was floundering, Thomas tried to do stuff he shouldn’t try to do. And Gibson probably wouldn’t do that, because he’s more aware of his limitations. Gibson’s bad games are much less spectacularly bad.
by hitlesswonder on Jan 5, 2010 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
I dunno, he makes that sourpuss face when things go wrong
that’s pretty memorable
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2010 11:31 AM CST up reply actions
he ususally gets foul trouble
before he can have a bad game….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
I see Taj having bad games
Mainly because his skill-set takes him only so far.
Again, for a fanbase that cries about having uninspiring players like Deng and Hinrich on the team, why the love for Taj?
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 5:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 6, 2010 7:51 AM CST up reply actions
you can comment on someone having a horrible game
without wanting to trade them (which i don’t) or some other exaggerated response.
the resounding comment for this game is simply – tyrus had a horrible game.
TYRUS had 1 bad game out of the last 3 ....
his better than taj on every level ….we need him 2 start to get the defensive going and the energy up …getting easy points dunks, fast break points …and of corse blocks
Hitless Wonder and Mr Rhythm are spot on
when will Tyrus get a chance to work through his mistakes. He’s now working on being in the dog house of his second coach and when does the organization take responsibility. I know they have a dialog with their players but are they articulating the organizations expectations and backing them up with instruction. I know young players are stubborn and want to do things their way but at some point you have to stop giving away talent (see B.G) and hone it. The Portland’s and O.K. C’s of the world shouldn’t be more competitive than this Bulls bunch that longed for so called veteren presence. Now this team has veterans and are still bums. Skiles was a rah rah in your face coach and management deemed his act old and fired him, Vinny is supposed to be a players coach yet the team doesn’t respond, at some point the GarPaxDorf have to look at how they’re developing players and become accountable. What is Portland and OK C doing that the Bulls aren’t? If I’m managment I’d like to know. To the person who posted JJ being the next whipping boy great vision, I see that in his future as well.
by EngleWood's Finest on Jan 5, 2010 2:56 PM CST up reply actions
thanks to hoopdata
I don’t have to guess at the jumper rate: he was 1-7 in shots > 16ft.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2010 10:32 AM CST up reply actions
I love this game log feature
Don’t know how I missed them before. Here’s Derrick’s. 13 field goal attempts at the rim last night.
yeah, I just discovered it last week myself
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2010 2:03 PM CST up reply actions
4 game winning streak hid lots of problems w/ this team
Experts have been saying for months this team can’t shoot. Lots of lay-ups were allowed during Bulls winning streak and 1st quarter yesterday. Won’t be long before opponents begin making adjustments and packing the paint on defense. No BG to open it up. Have to count on Hinrick and Salmons 3 pt shooting now.
There are other adjustments,
like running ISO’s for Rose or passing into the post just to give two examples, that a real coach would make. Our coach has an inability to adjust on the fly and an utter lack of creativity, and until he either improves or is removed, we’ll continue to lose winnable games.
I think that Deng and the bigs, except Noah, were guilty for this loss
Rose had nothing to do with that. It’s a fact that he didn’t get to the line, but, even slowed down by Thabo, he was our best offensive weapon. Deng, on the other hand, got in foul trouble too early, made a lot of mistakes (4 TO) and didn’t shoot the ball well (6-17). He grabbed ten rebounds, it’s a fact, but I think most of those rebounds were easy. I actually remember a stage of the game were Collison and Ibaka were dominating the OF glass. Collison and Ibaka! Are you kiding me?! (Of course Noah was not on the flour)
Miller was awful, but I don’t give a crap for him. I just want his contract. As for Tyrus, I want desperately to see him succeeded. But these kinds of games from him make me feel disappointed. Is there any hope for him? Is this just a problem of playing time and coming from the bench? If he comes from the bench, he should be playing better, since, theoretically, he is playing against players with worst abilities than the starts.
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
*than the ones who start the game
(unless your talking about Taj, of course)
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
Yeah sure Deng had a bad game
But still contributed….his shots that he tends to hit weren’t falling and OKC’s pressure was bothering him. Still he was reasonably effective.
I’ve never ever been one to be on the huge Deng bandwagon, back in 2005-2006 or whenever when there was talk of him being the next superstar SF, I never saw what the buzz was about as he wasn’t athletic enough or skilled enough as a ball handler/distributor to be in that realm, and lo and behold those are still his main issues.
But give the man a break, he’s playing well for his contract and for the team. He’s not paid max money and it’s not his fault that BG ain’t here….
He’s a good 3rd option on a contending team, forced into being the #1/#2 still (becoming #2 more as Rose gets his game going)….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Gordon gone
and Deng says more guys can get shots. Well Deng doesn’t make them. He’s an easy defensive cover. You can put anyone on him that can match his height. He’s no threat off the dribble without a screen which typically isn’t set for him. He’s never double teamed unless he’s backed himself into the low box where he’ll force up a shot that will be blocked easily and he won’t draw fouls.
Luol Deng will never get any better than he has already been. It’s over. His legs will get weaker. He’ll get even more comfortable in his role as a non-factor. Get him out of Chicago before he gets hurt.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jan 5, 2010 9:19 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah
But he’s not bad as he is….he’s solid….that’s the point. I know the problem was he was marketed as this superstar int he making, especially after all the Kobe trade talk stuff (and well even Ben Wallace comments) but I never saw that because he was never athletic enough in a spot chock full of super athlete’s.
Still he’s solid, consistent and well pretty darn good, lower 10’s SF….that’s not bad….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
he doesn't have to become a hard cover to be valuable
Deng’s fine. Just work on the corner-3 and that’s improvement enough.
Though if he does really think he is a scorer and Gordon’s absence was a good chance for him to spread his wings, that’s a problem.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2010 10:36 AM CST up reply actions
Deng was actually helping alot
despite his shot not falling, i mean he played the first half pretty horendousle, but in the second half he was driving more (without losing control of the ball) and his offensive rebounds were helping keeping those ball alive, seriously the refs were a bit to blame. They were letting a hellava lot of contact go on our end of the court, but were allowing okc to go to the line on the other end for the same shit…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Sorry, but I think that he should be playing better
For a guy who earns so much money, I expect him to score at least 20 points every single night, like Durant or Gay, and to be a game changer. His best game in terms of scoring this season was against NJ, with 27 points.
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
Durant
Will be making Max soon, Gay can’t defend like Deng….but sure can score and is a wash and well likely will make more….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
hes being paid a 3rd best player salary
ultimately rose and our 2010 fa will be making more than him in a few years….at which point his numbers and his contract are justified…
however, has anyone noticed that deng and rose cant both have a good game? it seems like its one or the other, at the begining of the season deng was at his best when rose was at his worse, now that rose is playing better, deng has been disapearing…small sample size but im gonna keep looking out for this…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
isn't
that because deng is a diva and a bad team mate? If deng thinks he has the hot hand, he is probably shooting jumpers and the expensive of an open D Rose and curtailing any VDN “plays” toward himself.
don't let the bed bugs bite
When Rose is on the Lakers
and Raja Bell is the Bulls 2010 free agent signing?
rose and our 2010 fa will be making more than him in a few years
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Jan 6, 2010 10:12 PM CST up reply actions
true, to an extent
yes, TT prob is better than the bench players he plays against but he cant create for himself and thus dependent on having talented players around him to help set him up. instead, he plays with our horrible bench, which is amongst the worst in the league (assuming TT starts and all we have is crap AKA Miller, Fish, etc)
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on Jan 5, 2010 11:02 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Jilted Tyrus-Lovers
Wow… is the bromance finally over with Tyrus this board? I’m a bit unnerved to see so many comments that I agree with. I’m sure YourFriendlyTyrusCrush will jump to his rescue and put everything back to normal.
I'm sure you'll continue to provide quality insight as well.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 5:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 5, 2010 8:31 AM CST up reply actions
TT Love
Most of the TT love here is based on basketball insight. Regardless of your opinion, you have to face the fact that the guy is an athletic freak! On the other hand most of the TT hate is based on arbitrary opinions like saying “he’s dumb.” You don’t know how smart the guy is, and neither do I. What I do know is the way our coaching staff has handled him has been awefull!
by 72-10 on Jan 5, 2010 8:59 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Looking For Nub
For the record, I’ve not seen anyone on this board ever say TT wasn’t an athletic monster. To do so would obviously be incorrect. My argument—and I seem to be less alone lately— is that one can have all the skills in the world and not be able to apply them in a helpful way. TT, IMHO, is one of those players. It’s not uncommon… it’s just that most of them end up playing for the Knicks (okay, sorry… couldn’t resist).
To be completely fair to TT, I’d say he consistently does one awesome thing to about 1.7 stupid things. Not good enough. I looked the other way for the first few years but I’m done and hopefully so is he.
Just wondering who you think has taught Thomas to do those things.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Taught him the concepts of team defense and offensive play sets?
Or just how to shoot better, dribble better, pass, etc…. all of which he’s improved on.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
so..Tyurs isn't dumb and be taught basketball things?
Tyger you must of missed the organization’s memo…
How many of the stupid things are due to the coaching?
If you get passed up for a promotion at work by the guy who’s work is by far and inferior product wouldn’t you be more likely to be prone to stupid errors? You might even stop caring about your job… check in at 9 and check out at 5, stop doing the extra work. I would look for work in another organization, which I believe is what Tyrus will do.
Tyrus is in a major jam
He has to play good and he has to play good with all the minutes he gets because this damn organization drafted and now plays his replacement.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jan 5, 2010 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
His performance seems has little to do with his playing time
but I’m guessing you’re talking about playing well with what he’s given so that another team can pay him.
even Darko got a 3-year deal as a second contract
I know teams spend less now, but someone’s taking a chance on Tyrus next summer.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2010 2:05 PM CST up reply actions
I'd recognize it as a less rational love
BG was at least good. I still every once in a while shake my head at letting him go. He was good and nice and worked hard! I thought we liked that!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2010 10:38 AM CST up reply actions
I dont think we like "good"
but we look at nice and working hard…look at our starting 4 and our coach!
you should be unnerved if you were nodding at the beginning of this thread
worst. ever.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2010 10:36 AM CST up reply actions
The Bears have a 2:00p news conference
What needs to happen is the Bulls need a to have a press conf., you have to look no further than the opponents bench to see what competent coaching looks like. Timely substitutions, well placed timeouts, adjustments that made a difference. Is OKC making us realize what an NBA organization that calls itself building should look like.
Dear Sonics investors
Buy this team and move it to Seattle.
Clay Bennett the city of Chicago.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
we had our great press conference last week
it was Gar Forman saying jack shit and following up by saying he shouldn’t even have to say that much.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2010 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
Eastern Conf. player of week
Imagine if Rose was paired w/Durant, we wouldn’t be saying how he was outplayed by Westrook.
Sick and tired of being sick and tired
To watch Vinnie knucklehead Del Negro coaching other teams back into games is getting old, everytime when any sort of momentum gets going, here he goes with these head scratching substitutions, like Miller for Noah and Salmons for Heinrich, and you could just see the air going out the balloon. If I am the opposing team and your defense is Deng, Miller, Salmons, my eyes are lighting up.
Taj is a nice guy and has been surprise, but I’m tired of hearing that is a awesome player when he’s not
Del Negro probably also learned a good lesson as well as he cannot take out Noah and Taj Gibson at the same time.
What the hell does this suppose to mean?
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
Sam must have missed the 95 times Taj got blocked in the third quarter
And that’s barely an exaggeration, as I was at the game last night and that was all right in front of me.
Also, I must say that after watching Deng up close I seriously hate his game. He’s incredibly slow off the dribble, has an absolutely awful handle, launches way too many 20-footers, and, worst of all, seems to have almost no awareness of the limitations to his game. There were 3-4 times last night where he drove down the lane, only to crash into 3-4 Thunder players and have the ball stripped, charge, or get blocked. I’m beginning to think he has a basketball IQ similar to Thomas’. Yeesh.
I’ve been high on Deng most of the year, but when he’s bad, he’s REALLY bad.
by Illini15 on Jan 5, 2010 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Sam led off the press scrum after the game
with a question about how the game changed when Taj left the floor.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2010 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
Dear God
the man is a sycophant and an idiot
by Basketball Smurf on Jan 5, 2010 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
If this continues, he will end up saying that we don't need Bosh because next year Taj will improve and will be much, much better
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
I m from NY and a huge bulls fan
but this Sam Smith must be drunk when watching the game cause he is trying to make the average fan a believer that Taj is the answer to Tyrus
he already made the average fan believe Tyrus needed an answer
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2010 2:06 PM CST up reply actions
If we still watch this
does that mean we have no life?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jan 5, 2010 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
As awful as they were,
if they shoot even decently, they win this game, and Derrick has a 20/10 game. Shooting like that happens. More important is what happens tonight.
Anyway:
There’s a lot of VDN bashing going on without stating why, specifically, he sucks. I’d like to list a few errors, so others can add to them.
1. He failed to realize they were doubling Rose on the pick and roll, and that we didn’t have the shooters to capitalize. The Bulls should have spread the floor for D and let him take Thabo off the dribble. Derrick beats Thabo off the dribble with ease. The pick and roll, if you’ve got an ineffective roller, only succeeds in double-teaming your best players. Unfortunately, VDN only has two plays in his book, and the other one (a curl to the top of the key) was designed for Ben Gordon.
2. Joakim Noah, by far our best player last night, played 31 minutes. Holy shit. If you can’t realize who your best player is on a given night…I have no idea why you’re an NBA coach.
3. He waited too long to put Derrick back in the game. You don’t come back from 16 down in 5 minutes. But you might in 10. And if Derrick can’t do it, he can’t do it. But you have to put him in when it matters. Fatigue be damned.
4. He left Derrick on Westbrook. Interestingly, when man on man, Russel couldn’t do shit with Derrick. Rose turned him away repeatedly. But Derrick is a dreadful pick and roll defender, slow, disinterested, and frankly, quick to point fingers at the big men – who generally deserve it. Kirk, on the other hand, defends the PNR superbly. There’s a pretty obvious solution here.
5. That was a game where you needed to work the refs. Rose got fouled. Obviously. Under the basket. Three times. VDN is yet to draw a technical in his tenure as a Bulls coach. And right or wrong, that’s how you lobby for your players. Someone needs to tell Vinny he’s Italian.
Anyway, that’s my list. Addend as you see fit. I’m sick of hearing how bad this guy is. I want reasons why.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
Noah was in foul trouble.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2010 10:40 AM CST up reply actions
Wow
I didn’t realize he hasn’t drawn a single technical as a Bulls coach….is that really true?
As for Noah at least, he was in foul trouble….and as for Rose sitting too long, that may have been a flow thing to a degree and time got away as Kirk was playing well last night too (Kirk, Rose, and Noah and well Taj played well, rest of the players had amongst their season worst games)….
I know the Fish didn’t ahve it going at all on either side of the game, but had been stroking it well of late, so maybe VDN hoped he’d get it going at some point and add another shooter/slasher to the mix…..and then bring Rose back….but the Fish didn’t get it.
If we hit some shots that even in our bad moments we typically do (we had a ton of good open looks and dunks that typically go in) we’d win even with Salmons Tyrus and the bench playing like complete crap….this lost was mostly on the players….VDN wasn’t perfect, but he can’t coach a good game when it seems the guys just don’t ahve it. I mean Luol’s pretty killer with his mid range game, and seemed like he couldn’t hit the Ocean with the ball if he was on the beach…
Sadly....through thick and thin....
It's definitely not true
that Vinny never drew a technical foul.
Last night was the first time then?
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Jan 6, 2010 10:21 PM CST up reply actions
In regards to #3:
VDN also really screwed us in the first half by leaving Derrick out for 7-8 minutes. We had a pretty decent lead when he went out, and by the time Vinny put him back in, we had blown most of it. Vinny has no idea how to manage a game, and he gets way too stuck on his “rotations.” Meanwhile, Russell Westbrook sat all of 5 minutes THE ENTIRE game, continually torching us. Maybe Vinny could have, you know, realized this and said “fuck it, Derrick needs to be on the court whenever Westbrook is tonight so we actually have a chance at winning.” Vinny’s problem, though, is that he can’t adjust to anything on the fly ever, so I’m sure something like this never crossed his mind. You can’t keep guys on “scheduled rest” when you’re a bad team in a close game. You gotta win, no matter what it might take. Do you think 5 extra minutes would have killed Derrick last night? Doubtful. And you know what? I bet it would have been a closer game.
they didn't have a decent lead
Bulls were down 13 when Rose came out at the end of the 3rd. If anything VDN should’ve taken him out sooner in order to bring him back sooner in the 4th.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2010 2:09 PM CST up reply actions
d'oh, sorry.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2010 3:01 PM CST up reply actions
Thats my number one problem with VDN
substitutions
Sets, teaching, adjustments, we really don’t watch close enough to see how well he does with that.
Really, in terms of running sets, we are no worse than most teams in the league. Our players just struglle to execute, beat their man.
This was mentioned by Sam Smith (as well as someone on the post-game call-in show)
If there was ever a night for a Jannero Pargo hail mary, wasn’t it last night in the 3rd quarter? Why are we paying this guy? Can we work out a deal with a Russian club to take him back a la Roko Ukic?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2010 10:41 AM CST reply actions
I think I would rather get blown out then watch a second of pargo
not that he would help us catch up anyways, but yes, there is absolutely no point in signing Pargo.
But we traded Larry Hughes!
Then we wanted a smaller, worse copy.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
Who?
Oh, Larry Legend.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jan 5, 2010 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
Remember when Funk called him Larry "Big Shot" Hughes or something?
I think it was when he got the game winner against Utah last season. That was just stupid…
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
Besides, “Big Shot” is Gilbert Arenas’ new nickname.
by El Toro de Goro on Jan 5, 2010 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
After letting Gordon go for nothing, signing Pargo figures in the second place of my list of mistakes that the org. made this summer
Not even drafting James Johnson, who isn’t playing well and rarely makes a basket, and Taj Gibson and letting better players (Lawson, Collison, Casspi and, why not, Blair) escape to another teams is that high.
I wonder who put in their minds that Pargo was going to be a small Ben Gordon, who could shoot the three and help us on that aspect. Only the Bulls to make this kind of decisions
Jannero Pargo = Larry Hughes 2.0
The Bulls got the idea because he was 'familiar'
I agree with the signing in theory (emergency PG and 3-point threat) if Pargo could still play at all. Dunno if it’s still the hip/back injuries, but he can’t even be his inefficient old self at this point.
Reminder that the Bulls used their LLE on Pargo, so they can’t use one next year (if they wind up using exceptions).
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2010 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
Really?
Where did you read that?
If the Bulls used the LLE on Pargo instead of a portion of the MLE, then they are idiots…considering there was no chance of using the full MLE on anyone…why waste something of potential value in the summer of ’10 for Jannero F. Pargo?
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and LLE will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
per Sham
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/notes/bulls.htm
They’ll have neither exception if they use cap space, but you’re correct (and Sham pointed this out on twitter or something which is why I remembered it) they could’ve just used a portion of the MLE which they weren’t using anyway this year.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2010 3:47 PM CST up reply actions
So how does a team field a complete team then?
I always thought the exceptions were so that you could go over the cap to sign players.
If the Bulls get exact cap space to sign a MAX guy, but only have 8 guys signed after they sign their rookie, how do they fill the team? They have to sign four guys willing to play for the minimum (using the holds of the roster spots)?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
yes, they have to use the minimum
to sign more FAs.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2010 4:31 PM CST up reply actions
here it is
he Suns signed Frye last month to a 2 year, $4,139,200 contract; not coincidentally, that is the same amount as the full value of the Bi-Annual Exception. However, the Suns didn’t actually use their Bi-Annual Exception to sign him. Knowing that they wouldn’t be using the full MLE to sign somebody due to their payroll concerns, the Suns cleverly (and creatively) used an equivalent chick of their mid level exception instead. As the name would suggest, you get to use the Bi-Annual Exception a maximum of once every two years, so if the Suns used it this year, they wouldn’t get it next year. But if they roll it over, they do. It’s pretty shrewd, when you think about it.
(Teams that should have done this but didn’t include Washington – who used their BAE on Fabricio Oberto, and who won’t use their MLE – and Chicago – who used their BAE on Jannero Pargo and who also won’t use their MLE; however, if their plan for 2010 cap space comes off, it won’t matter.)
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/2009/08/more-creative-financing-in-nba.jsp
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2010 3:49 PM CST up reply actions
So again this begs the question
If they are putting all their eggs in the 2010 basket, then why didn’t they (up to this point) ensure that they had enough space to sign a max guy for next summer? This org is a sham.
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
Thanks yfBB.
I can’t believe they wouldn’t just sign him to a portion of the MLE…thus keeping the LLE for this Summer when they may actually need it.
I look at it like this…it would be smarter for the Bulls to orchestrate a sign and trade for a max free agent rather than signing him outright…this serves the purpose of allowing the Bulls to keep the rights to Tyrus Thomas and the salary cap exceptions, to sign the proverbial supporting cast. Without the LLE, they will only have one exception, the bulk of which will have to be used to bring Asik in from Europe. I know the LLE is only about $2M, but it can be used to bring in a productive piece.
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and LLE will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
Thus, perhaps my biggest reason for wanting to keep Gordon.
I don’t see anyway they can do a sign-and-trade now without giving up at least two of Hinrich, Deng, Thomas and Noah.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
What???
That and giving VDN 3 guaranteed years are reason enough to fire GarPax.
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
What's up with that?
I was at the game, and there were at least two times when Tyrus posed after a jumper with his arm extended and his wrist in a follow through position. He missed both times. I was surprised that Vinnie didn’t pull him then.
Would JJ benefit
by going to the D league for a while? He would get consistent playing time and it might help him to get in better shape.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
I think they would if they already weren't on a razor-thin roster
JJ does get 8 minutes a game now, and they have literally nobody else to play those minutes. We just had to sign Aaron Gray (and above the minimum, at that)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 5, 2010 2:12 PM CST up reply actions
put a ditto in for pargo
Pargo basically embodies every negative thing anyone could ever say about gordon (whether they were true or not) hes a ball hog, a ball stopper, a streaky shooter (thats me being very generous) a poor defender, uber short, bad passer, no kind of leader (shouldve been made captain) and stunts roses development, and he is SUPER OVERPAID ( a salary of -471 would of been better…yea..he should pay the bulls!) god i hate pargo more than i hate hughes….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
i dont know what anyone could ever like about him
i dont remember him being this bad when he played for skiles, and i just remember his name a few times when the hornets were in the playoffs a few years back…but he has brought nothing to this team…NOTHING…if aaron gray was actually in some sort of playable shape he would bring at least something to the table (a big body to foul and draw fouls, a decent passer out of the post, he has pretty good footwork in the post) but pargo has nothing…everytime he comes out on the court its just nothing but a big stinky pile of suck, and thats just when he steps on the court, when he actually plays im enduced to vomit.
Pargo represents everything i could hate in a basketball player, i mean i hate lebron james and rajon rondo with extreme passion, but at least they have some skill where i have to give them dues….pargo has nothing…nothing but suck…
he is the Dyson
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Aaron Gray is more a "take something from the (dinner) table" type of guy.
if aaron gray was actually in some sort of playable shape he would bring at least something to the table
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Jan 6, 2010 10:55 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I realize we are
short on players. It was just a thought.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
why?
rose – 36
hinrich – 32
salmons – 32
deng – 36
thomas – 36
gibson – 32
noah – 36
miller – plays vs orlando/cleveland types and foul trouble
jj – dleague him while the top 7 are healthy for his confidence
gray – hackashaq/hackahoward??
pargo/hunter – emergency use only
"Let's do some living... after we die"
because Gibson shouldn't get 32 minutes and Thomas will never get 36 here.
Tyrus Thomas has a ceiling on his minutes, donchaknow? It’s 28-30… That would give Gibson about 40 minutes per game.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
alston is available
he’s inconsistent but he’s a decent 3pt shooter and can create his own shot. huge upgrade over pargs
Pargo's uselessness shouldn't be a concern. After all Paxdorf has more than compensated for letting Gordon go for nada
by having young, dynamic, energetic, 3 point specialist, Lindsey Hunter available off the bench. For the life of me, I can’t understand why Vinny hasn’t used this valuable asset more lately, especially since he had no problem playing him over Thomas with their 4 guard offense in game 7 of last year’s Celtics playoffs. But then as I think about it, I guess anyone would be an improvement over Tyrus in crunch time. Besides, Hunter can provide what DelEinstien most craves, grit, energy and thrust, as long as he remembers to take his liver pills and viagra.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
Only if you think the teams around them didn't get worse, too.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Yeah
Where’s the Aaron Gray hatred, we’ve at least had him with essentially this same team for now 3 years doing nothing but eating and cheering….and we just HAD to sign him when who knows we could have kept the add’l cap money….I hate Aaron Gray.
Pargo isn’t supposed to play too often (at least in me head) he was a nice option when everything else fails on O (which is how he should be used)….it’s odd that he wasn’t even in in that scenario yesterday, but oh well, maybe that hamstring, etc is bothering him….
Sadly....through thick and thin....
When well people realize Taj is a better player than TT?
Taj plays Big Boy Basketball.
Taj Gibson was the Pac 10 Defensive Player of the Year
Taj help swat Dwight Howard off the United Center floor
He doesn’t sulk when the coach takes him out.
He plays through horrible calls made against him because he’s a rookie
He’s happy for the success of his teammates, unlike TT, who resents everyone on the team.
Taj doesn’t get swatted by Nenad Kristic at the rim.
He waits for his turn to shoot. Rarely forcing an ill-advised 20 footer.
TT gets destroyed by NBA starters, he can’t even beat the other teams bench players. He didn’t know how to beat Collison and Odeka, last night.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
I don't agree with the face of Bulls basket ball part
But I do not have a problem with the way Taj plays. TT has so much talent it sucks to watch him on the pine for long stretches. I personally could live with TT’s ups and downs because I believe he gives us the best chance to win games.
Taj actually can play with his back to the basket some, hit a jumper and finish at the rim with two hands. He plays good D and is good rebounder and teamate. I don’t know why pp; hate him so much, I guess it’s because evertone love TT so much.
Homecoming
I've never seen Thomas finish at the rim with two hands.
It’s ridiculous how much people love him.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I'di be more agreeable with your cogent analysis if you had said Taj Gibson is the face of
the remake of ET.
The 25 GM’s who passed on the 63rd highest rated player in the draft obviously lack your insight and scouting prowess. Of course he’s happy. He can hardly believe his good fortune of actually playing ahead of someone with far superior talent. Is it any wonder that he recentlly babbled with a straight face that “We have GREAT coaches”…….Quite a tribute from someone “just short of brilliant.”
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Jan 5, 2010 5:49 PM CST up reply actions
He got swatted by Ryan Anderson and Matt Barnes, you're an idiot.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 5:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 6, 2010 7:55 AM CST up reply actions
CSN has used
several Bulls players in those ads this season. That they used Taj in the most recent means nothing.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
I empathize with you Diedaily 23 re Pargo but Vinny Del Incompetento being head coach of the Bulls
is even more laughable and even sadder than having Pargo as an optionI
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
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