What's the record when the players don't "show up"....
One of the things that is frequently said about this version of the Bulls - by us, the media, Vinny, and the players themselves - is that this team is pretty decent when everyone shows up and plays hard. The converse, of course, would be that we can't afford for anyone to have an off night or be out with injury if we want to be competitive.
This makes perfect sense for any team in the abstract, and especially makes sense to anyone who watches the Bulls regularly. But, being a geek (and wanting to procrastinate some real work), I wanted to see how the record actually stacks up under this assumption. I've seen other people raise similar questions about the record, so thought this would be worth putting out there for anyone who is interested.
First issue is what counts as a "subpar" night. I used gamescore stats from basketball-reference.com for a couple of reasons. First and foremost, it's available for every game. It's also convenient in that it combines a lot of different means of contribution into a single number. There is the issue of it being a sum-total rather than minutes-based stat, but that's not a big concern here as I'm comparing any given game for a player against that players' season performance. I'm willing to live with the fiction that no one's minutes have varied drastically.
Second, to determine which nights are subpar for each player, I computed their season average gamescore and its standard deviation. Any specific game for which a player is more than one standard deviation below their average counted as subpar. This limits the games in question to those that a player is substantially off their normal contribution.
One caveat. I only included Derrick, Jo, Lu, Kirk, and Fish here. They are the top 5 minute guys on the team, and I think most would agree the top 5 that are being relied on for wins. I probably should have included Taj, but gamescore is tough for him because it takes fouls into account and his minutes played have been more varied. Tyrus hasn't played enough games for this to be meaningful, and everyone else either has big variations in minutes or really doesn't come into the whole wins calculus very often. Also, I didn't control for home vs. away games or for quality of opponent.
So how do the Bulls end up looking? Considering only the guys (of the 5 listed) who played:
- In 16 of their games so far, everyone played at least to their average range. Bulls record in these games is 10 and 6.
- In 21 games, one - but only one - of the guys has had a subpar night. The record in these games is 10 and 11. In six of the 10 wins, at least one other player on the team had an unusually good night to serve as a counterbalance.
- Two or more guys have failed to show up on the same night 6 times, and the record in those games is 1 and 5. And yes, in that one win, there was someone else having a great night to offset the two MIAs.
How does that look if we count guys out with injury as having a subpar night? It seems reasonable to consider this as well, since we all know that one of the real rotation guys out with injury means either too many minutes for the rest of the them or minutes from our subpar deep bench. So adding injury games to the list:
- We now have 12 games where all top 5 guys played, and played reasonably well. Our record there is 9 and 3.
- In 22 games, we had just a single guy either out with injury or playing poorly. The record there is 10 and 12. In 7 of the 10 wins, one of the other players had an exceptional game (by their personal standards) to make up for the missing contribution.
- In the remaining 9 games, two or more players were out/played like crap, resulting in a record of 2-7.
And for anyone curious about which players have the most extreme records:
- The Bulls are 6 and 1 when Derrick plays great, and 7 and 1 when Jo plays great. (11 and 2 with at least one of the two playing well above average.)
- On the other hand, it's Kirk along with Jo who has killed the team in bad games. The Bulls are 1 and 5 in both cases. (This doesn't count injury games.)
- Somehow, the Bulls actually have a winning record in Lu's crap games, going 3 and 2.
- Although there's still an impact, Fish seems to make the least difference to the record with his individual game. They are .500 in his great games, .538 in his average games, and .400 in his awful games. Fish also has the curve most skewed toward bad games (6 above average compared to 10 below average).
Like I said above, this isn't exactly startling information. I just thought I'd put numbers out there to back up what we all knew already. :)
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thanks wjb
ive been wondering about this information for quite awhile and posted the exact question in a past gamethread….thanks for doing the research…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Seems to follow suit
Why Deng might be the guy to go of the bunch as I’m saying quite a bit today.
Deng’s good and we get value and as to be expected his game doesn’t really impact our team much because either Vinny doesn’t utilize him as best he should (quite possible) or Deng’s just not aggressive enough to make himself better (Also quite possible).
Trade an asset when it’s high….Deng’s high—relatively speaking (of course not as high as what 2 years ago but so be it).
Folks should be happy with a 17-19 pt scorer, 5-8 rebound, solid defender like Deng. I just wish he could threaten to socre more in the upper 20’s….but the odd thing is Deng will consistently be in a 15-22 pt scoring game, and a 25 pt game from him is almost like a 35 pt game from Rose….yet Deng scores lower 20’s often.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
i think the problem ends up being
deng like being on the wings about 20feet away from the rim, however the high screen that the bulls run with rose takes away that area from deng so deng is often outside of his range or comfort zone in plays that arent designed for him (since most vinny plays begin with the high screen and roll) so u still see deng get points off mostly broken plays or when the high screen roll isnt in play…its why i think his impact on games is so miniscule especially as of late since rose is carrying the load and its coming from that high screen and roll…
salmons, kirk, deng…any of them can go and the bulls can deal with it (if hinrich then salmons takes the two spot with devin brown off the bench and pargo playing point, unless we get a backup point as part of the trade. If salmons goes then brown takes salmons spot effectively, if deng goes salmons takes dengs spot while brown takes salmons spot) so my guess is the bulls put all three of them on the block and are just going to go with whatever the best offer is…i just wish i could know what the offers are
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
deng is a smarter player than most people think
Deng knows that he needs to be better inside and more agreesive like he was 2 years ago. But he knows that other defences will ajust to him preventing him from doing that. What i am thinking now is that Deng is taking more mid range jumpers so other player will respect his midrange shot and therefore opening up his inside game.
What do u guys think?
It does raise the question of Deng's value on the defensive end.
Defense is a challenge to represent statistically
Great post
reaffirms our notion that Deng has little impact on the outcome of games. (At least so far this year)
What does your username refer to wjb1492?
This is too superficial to make conclusions about anyone, really
It is interesting that, so far, the team’s winning percentage in Lu’s bad games is higher than its winning percentage in his good games or his average games. But it’s most likely coincidence – I mean, change one W to an L for a bad game, and suddenly the pattern looks more like you’d expect. I also should have pointed out that Lu’s curve skews opposite from Fish’s – more above average games than below. However, I kind of agree on his impact. I’ve been happy with how he’s played, but at the same time a lot of games it just doesn’t feel like he’s been an integral part of the game plan offensively, in spite of scoring a bunch of the points. We seem to spend more time trying to get the inside stuff going. Anyway, it sounds totally counterintuitive as a type that, and I don’t know how to explain it better, except that it often feels sort of like he’s an afterthought. Like here’s this gameplan – oh, and Lu go ahead and take a shot if you’re open.
No fun story with my username – the first part is my initials, and the last part is for Columbus. That’s the one historical date that always sticks with me because of that stupid poem. I needed a username with letters and numbers for work one time, and I wanted something I knew I’d remember because having to call IT to reset your computer was grounds for a highly publicized bonehead of the week award.
Yeah for years now
Deng gets 4-6 points a quarter and I say “huh Deng had 19 pts tonight. Hadn’t noticed.”
From another perspective
You can see Deng as a very reliable player. He only played 5 “crap games” (and remember he had a wrist injury). And even so we won 3, which could have happen becaus the team was playing well and he didn’t have to step up that much (that W against the Rockets he only made 12 points – on 50% shooting – and grabbed 6 boards).
Also he does the little things (how clichê!) he just made 10 points against the Spurs but made 4 assists, grabbed 9 boards (Duncan had 5!) and he also made that crucial block against Manu.
I think he is worth his money and unless we are getting LeBron I would not trade him
by JustAnotherFan on Jan 27, 2010 6:23 AM CST up reply actions
Not always
We could have lost by just a few points… after blowing up a 30+ points lead
by JustAnotherFan on Jan 27, 2010 6:26 AM CST up reply actions
I'd be curious what this looks like for an elite team?
Do their players simply have less off nights or are they able to offset them better?
I would guess they are able to offset the bad nights far better, especially when it is just one player, but I am also willing to bet that two players having off nights still makes them pretty bad.
I would also guess that I am currently too lazy to do the analysis. Just felt like making a point.

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