Rank These Power Forwards
by YaoPau on Jan 26, 2010 12:25 AM CST
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PrintRank these Power Forwards in order of who you want the Bulls to give a 5-year contract to. Next to each player is their PER since 2009, their APM from 2006-2009, their FG% on close shots since 2009, their age, and their average games played per season over their careers.
Player A: 20.5 PER, +0.88 APM, 54% Close, age 27, 63.3 games played per season
Player B: 18.9 PER, +1.10 APM, 59% Close, age 28, 63.1 games played per season
Player C: 20.0 PER, +1.68 APM, 60% Close, age 26, 71.9 games played per season
Player names are in the comments.
FanPosts are user-created posts from the BlogABull community, and are to be treated as the opinions and views of that particular user, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.
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Wow, you got me there
but I’m sorry I just do not want David Lee
Neil takes the fun out of funk
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 26, 2010 12:31 AM CST up reply actions
He's a very, very good player. He also happens to fit the PnR a million times offense
with Rose, if the Bulls choose to keep that in place.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
No, really. Kirk needs to GTFO. Trade his ass, GarPaxDorf.
by fundamentallysound on Jan 26, 2010 3:06 AM CST up reply actions
Aww, Yao
you should’ve left the names out, so no pre-conceived biases on any player can be included.
by Stacey_Is_King on Jan 26, 2010 12:29 AM CST reply actions
i did it the legit way
looked at ages and tried to deduce who it was….i thought player c was bosh…maybe u planned it that way….u couldve posted the answers at a later time,,,,like tomaro afternoon….but ur point still stands
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
You should have waited a few days....to get the experiment going
Seriously I was like hmm, who is C? And I thought A was Stat and B was Boozer (just because ya know that’s what we do).
I don’t know if I want Lee anywhere near the max, but for a $9-10M a year, sure, fine.
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Give me player C.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
No, really. Kirk needs to GTFO. Trade his ass, GarPaxDorf.
by fundamentallysound on Jan 26, 2010 12:34 AM CST reply actions
I like David Lee anyway, but of the tier 2 PF's he obviously the best.
I love his game too.
by Stacey_Is_King on Jan 26, 2010 12:40 AM CST reply actions
And what of Player D?
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Also, wouldn't David Lee be totally unavailable at this point?
The Knicks have his bird rights and would probably wanna keep him as a key player next to whoever they hope to bring in.
Neil takes the fun out of funk
He'll be an UFA and they won't offer him max money, so any team can outbid the Knicks for him.
He also might want to leave NYK after they forced him to sign a one year deal last year.
Whether it would be smart to get into a bidding war with NY for David Lee is another question entirely. However, I do think that they are going to be going all in after the premiere stars and if the Bulls move quickly enough and identify whether one of the max guys will come (and then if they don’t), they could pry Lee away, if none of the Big 3 (Bron, Wade, Bosh) is coming to Chicago.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
No, really. Kirk needs to GTFO. Trade his ass, GarPaxDorf.
by fundamentallysound on Jan 26, 2010 3:05 AM CST up reply actions
I get the feeling that everyone will know rather quickly where the big stars are gonna end up
In some cases probably before the season ends. I think it’s gonna be a lot less dramatic than people expect. When it comes to Lee, I really just don’t know…
You are someone that is good with advanced stats, something I know at the most basic levels, but it just feels like his numbers could be inflated because of a fast paced offense, lack of another big man, and having a point guard who’s one real talent is running the pnr. As much as I love Rose, I’m not sure he can run it that well (but he sure as hell can do everything else better).. Plus he’s not athletic or a shot blocker, can we really win with him?
Neil takes the fun out of funk
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 26, 2010 3:46 AM CST up reply actions
PER is adjusted for pace and he played with Eddy Curry back before Eddy Curry sucked total eggs.
His PER numbers and other rate statistics have always been great. His defense is poor, but it IS getting better and with Noah or Taj out there with him at all times, his defensive woes are less of a problem (note also, Bosh, Boozer, and Amare aren’t much for defending either). This year, he’s greatly improved both his passing skills (they have been running their offense through him as the facilitator, it’s weird but it works) and his shooting skills (he’s taking way more jumpers than ever and instead of his % going down like you’d normally expect, he’s making a lot more even by %).
I really think Lee is a great fit, to be honest. He’s probably, for me, the second best big man the Bulls could come away with when everything’s factored in (age, likely contract doled out, etc.) behind only Bosh. I would prefer we land Bosh, obviously, but if we end up with David Lee on a 11-12 million deal and another piece (probably a lesser wing player), then I will be okay with things going forward.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
No, really. Kirk needs to GTFO. Trade his ass, GarPaxDorf.
by fundamentallysound on Jan 26, 2010 6:34 AM CST up reply actions
11-12 million per year deal*
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
No, really. Kirk needs to GTFO. Trade his ass, GarPaxDorf.
by fundamentallysound on Jan 26, 2010 6:35 AM CST up reply actions
I thought the same thing
Until I was browsing Hoop Data’s shot success numbers (see my post below). I was looking for big men who could shoot and he was among the elite, but wasn’t being discussed like he’d receive an elite paycheck. Paul Millsap was the other player I was shocked to see with terrific shooting percentages.
"I skim a LOT of what gets said here
in a race to put in a smirky retort."
-your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 16, 2009 4:52 PM EDT
I've been getting excited about Lee recently as well
When comparing the shot success of Amare, Lee, Boozer and Bosh.
Per 40 minutes
Amare- 16-23’: 4.6 Att, 47.0% fg; – 10-15’: 1.6 Att, 56.5% fg
Boozer- 16-23’: 4.6 Att, 43.0% fg; – 10-15’: 1.9 Att, 42.9% fg
Bosh – 16-23’: 4.7 Att, 42.0% fg; – 10-15’: 2.5 Att, 45.0% fg
D. Lee- 16-23’: 5.0 Att, 44.0% fg; – 10-15’: 1.2 Att, 48.9% fg
"I skim a LOT of what gets said here
in a race to put in a smirky retort."
-your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 16, 2009 4:52 PM EDT
by Jamaicanpi on Jan 26, 2010 7:21 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Here's a link to the numbers
+ a link to per 40 stats (via DX)
link to numbers listed above
"I skim a LOT of what gets said here
in a race to put in a smirky retort."
-your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 16, 2009 4:52 PM EDT
wow
amare can really shoot – i’m warming on the idea of him running the pick and roll/pop with rose
We just need to execute better - Lovie Del Negro
by Illini0509 on Jan 26, 2010 8:51 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Is this meant to demonstrate how misleading statistics can be?
;)
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
I should elaborate. It comes across as snarky otherwise.
These stats don’t take into account the following about David Lee:
- he’s the uber garbage man, but we already have that in Noah
- he’s never played on a good team; it’s easy to get stats when you play for a loser. (To be pithy about it: there’s a lot of garbage to collect when you’re a Knick.)
- he’s an even worse defender than Amare – who tunes it up on that end when the playoffs roll around
Nor do they account for the following about Amare:
- he’s still coming back from an injury – and even doing so he’s averaging 21/8 on 55%
- his injuries – retinal – are of the freak variety, not the chronic. His knee is (please correct me if I’m wrong – going on memory here) more or less back to normal. But the more he rounds into shape, the better he looks. In otherwords, there’s upside there.
- his skill set (scoring, shooting, PNR) fits both Rose’s and Noah’s needs/deficencies better than do Lee’s.
It’s certainly interesting to see the stats lined up like that, and a great topic for conversation. But I’ve seen both Amare and Lee a few times this year, and in terms of fit, I’d much rather have Amare, especially since it’s highly unlikely his eye injury will recurr. Where it really gets interesting is discussing how much you would pay for each player – especially as that might effect the amount of money that can be alocated elsewhere.
To answer your question:
In terms of your stats I’d take C>A>B. In terms of players I’d like to add to the Bulls, cost being equal, I’d take Stat>Lee>Boozer. (Not a big fan of Carlos)
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
Lee's skill set does fit
I think you’re being overly harsh on Lee. It’s easy to score on a bad team, but it’s harder to do so efficiently. Lee used to be more of a garbage player, but if you check his shot selection over the last 3 years (Hoop Data) he’s been increasing his percentage of jumpers quite a bit. This not surprisingly has also meant his offensive rebounding numbers have gone down and his ORR has dropped from 11.3 in 2008, to 9.6 in 2009, and 7.3 this year. I think his skill set fits this team as well as Boozer, Amare, and Bosh. All of those guys have downsides. Boozer is injury prone, Amare doesn’t rebound, Bosh really isn’t a back-to-the-basket player. Lee also isn’t a back-to-the basket player either. The great thing about Bosh is that he’s probably at least an average defender, while the others not so much.
Lee doesn’t score as well as the other players and I agree that costs being equal, I’d take Amare because Deng and Noah can make up for the mediocre rebounding, but costs aren’t going to be equal. The only fear I have about David Lee is that this year’s efficiency numbers might be a fluke, but I doubt it because he’s shooting so many long jumpers relative to any other point in his career.
"I skim a LOT of what gets said here
in a race to put in a smirky retort."
-your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 16, 2009 4:52 PM EDT
I question some of your points
- he’s the uber garbage man
Lee’s averaging 2.5 offensive rebounds per game, compared to Amare’s 2.4. So I don’t see evidence that Lee’s getting a bigger bulk of his scoring from cheapie putbacks.
- he’s never played on a good team; it’s easy to get stats when you play for a loser
Is that true? I know you can get big Per36 stats on a crappy team (like Nick Van Exel did back in the day, or like Monta Ellis is now), but when adjusted for pace, scoring efficiency, and turnovers, PER shows more of a truer value. I’m interested to see if you know any guys with high PERs for crappy teams whose PER plummeted on a good team. Pau Gasol comes to mind as one player who switched, and his PER stayed the same despite a drop in ppg.
Overall, if you want Amare over Lee, that’s fine and I see the logic in it. Their numbers are really close, and we’ll do alright with either one. I just think Lee deserves to be in the discussion for Top Free Agent Choices.
I don't see that
if anything, his PER was slightly better in New Jersey than Toronto, although it’s really close, which is a good sign. If you’re talking about going from New Jersey to Orlando, Carter’s 33 years old, and most SGs decline during ages 32-34.
I thought of Ray Allen though, whose PER dropped from 22 with the Sonics to 17 with the Celtics. Though it’s an understandable exception since most of his PER came from his 28 USG%. His shooting percentages went way up and he still made all-star teams. And also, the age 32-34 thing.
Yeah
But Ray Allen also went to a team with 2 other legit superstars (KG and Pierce), 2 hall of fame likely superstars to steal shots/ops….which you hinted at anyway….
Allen was a BEAST, and a good guy (I loved him when I lived in Milwaukee).
Sadly....through thick and thin....
Sorry for the delay in the response...been busy today.
I don’t know any players, specifically, whose PER dropped when they were traded. Hopefully this means that a player is efficent no matter who is around him – good, bad, or ugly – and that portends Lee would continue his play with us. But I don’t think he would. I live in NYC: I’ve seen David Lee and the Knickss waaaaaay too many times to be excited by signing him. There is just an absurd amount of garbage time when the Knicks play: blow outs, loafing, padded stats. I’d be pretty depressed if he was all we got from the summer of 2010.
I know that’s a completely unsatisfying response from your perspective. But it’s where I’m coming from.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
I'd like to think of Lee as a cheaper fallback to Amare
Both have skill sets that complement Rose & Noah (our real core). Difference is that Lee is unlikely to take a max contract and knows that he’s not gonna be offered one (barring a Chris Wallace-esque brain fart).
Maybe instead of deluding ourselves that we can snag a Bosh/Wade, why not just turn our cap space to someone attainable and can improve us immediately without us shelling out a max contract?
one of these is Taj?
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 26, 2010 10:30 AM CST reply actions
You must be going by the age column lol
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
Lee would fit in perfectly with our roster.
He would be the starting PF that can actually hit the mid range shot with consistency opening up the floor. He can also score and defend inside while rebounding like a beast. Him and Noah would compliment each other very well.
We won’t be able to get him this year via trade but I think we would be best served going after him quickly at the start of FA because in the end there is not a high likelihood we will get Wade or LBJ. It would be a big change for Lee actually feeling wanted unlike in NY and it would give us a good chance of actually getting him next year. If we could get Lee and maybe another quality player at the SG position we would be in good shape.
The Dude Abides
the other guys are better shooters than lee (.42 eFG on jumpers), but i guess unlike them
less is the number 1 option on his team.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
name 2 other knick who are having unusually good seasons under d'antoni
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
by TheMoon on Jan 26, 2010 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Right, it's a misconception
D’Antoni + Nash can equal beefed up stats.
D’Antoni + Duhon equals 21st ranked offense, playing at a slower pace than the Milwaukee Bucks.
Besides, Lee’s PER and TS% was just as good before D’Antoni arrived.
by YaoPau on Jan 26, 2010 2:33 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree, Lee's a fine basketball player.
But of the three guys, Lee looks more like a complimentary piece than a part of the foundation, no? He’s a wonderful player that does a lot of things to help you win, but doesn’t Amare pose more of a threat on offense? Boozer isn’t as good at getting his own shot as Amare, but they’re both better in that department than Lee. At least that’s how it looks to me. I’m looking for a player to take some of the pressure off of Derrick, and Lee doesn’t seem to fit that bill.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
I'm asking questions too
Doesn’t having the same or better numbers mean Lee is as much an offensive threat as Amare and Boozer?
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck…
Similar efficiency
But Lee’s usage is lower and so he does score less.
"I skim a LOT of what gets said here
in a race to put in a smirky retort."
-your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 16, 2009 4:52 PM EDT
Lee's at 23%
Amare 24.7%, Boozer 24.9%. I’d consider that similar.
I agree in a way though. Lee hasn’t been a high usage player over his career, but that’s changed this year without any drop in efficiency. It’s fair to question whether 43 games is enough to say he can keep it up, but the days of Amare/Boozer posting 27% usage rates seem to be in the past.
Right now, Lee’s at 19.2ppg, Boozer at 19.4ppg, Amare at 20.8ppg. They’ve all been capable of handling a big scoring load, at least for half a season.
Enough of the Lee talk,
Lee is good, if the Bulls end w/ Lee or Boozer it wouldn’t be bad, but it would be a let down, and a typica Chicago sports’ move, go for the 2nd & 3rd tier guys, it would be like your parents getting you Aquaman for your birthday when Superman was on the shelf.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Jan 26, 2010 4:21 PM CST up reply actions
I see where your coming from.... But
one major problem I notice with us as Bulls fans is we tend to overestimate the lure of coming to Chicago we have not signed a top tier guy in the last decade and I am not so sure we have a great shot at doing it this year either. I think it is very unlikely that we will land Wade, LBJ, OR Bosh. The only one likely to leave his current team is Bosh and he may opt to play with LBJ or Wade.
I think we need to address two positions PF and SG to become a contending team in the future. I do not think just adding Amare or Boozer to this team gets us to the next level. Lets remember that Amare has only played in over 70 games 4 years of his career. In my opinion we are two solid players away. What do you all think??
The Dude Abides
by Savage23 on Jan 26, 2010 4:50 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
One thing that seems to be left out in all of this discussion Yao
is that you are only going by this year. Amare is having a so so year for him and yet he still compares to Lee who is having a career year. I think given a full off season to prepare for the season (as opposed to recovering from injury), Amare is hands down better than Lee and I like Lee. IMO having Lee at PF would be like having Deng at SF. A good player but he’s not going to dominate (maybe on the glass). If we have to settle for him and it’s reasonable, I’m fine with it but he’s not in Amare’s class.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
The numbers he used are clearly labelled as being from the last 3 years.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
No, really. Kirk needs to GTFO. Trade his ass, GarPaxDorf.
by fundamentallysound on Jan 26, 2010 10:14 PM CST up reply actions
I was specifically responding to post I replied to
not necessarily what’s at the top. Mainly because he said “Right now, Lee’s at 19.2ppg, Boozer at 19.4ppg, Amare at 20.8ppg. They’ve all been capable of handling a big scoring load, at least for half a season.”
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
Right... he prefaced, surrounded postfaced (?!?!) it with "Is 43 games enough...?"
I’m pretty sure he’s not making a 100% true, undeniable will definitely happen claim.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I know he's not
The point he’s making is fine. It’s valid, especially given the cost-consciousness of this org. My whole point is that Amare has proven to be much better than Lee will ever be. He’s had injuries in recent years and still is comparable to Lee who’s playing his best. That’s all that I’m saying.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
Yea I see what you are saying here,
but I really don’t think that Amare is a top tier superstar like LBJ, Wade, Bosh ect…. Like I mentioned before he has only played more than 70 games 4 years of his career. He has had some pretty good talent around him during his years in Phoenix and they still have not reached the mountain top. I agree his is more talented than Lee. But I don’t think he is miles ahead of him either.
Lee has been very productive and has played 81 games in each of the past two years while playing every game this year so far. If we can get Lee for a fair price and sign another player along with him that is what I would like to see.
The Dude Abides
I wouldn't be mad at it
Lee is good. He’ll be great in pick and rolls with Derrick and is a fantastic rebounder. At this point he could be the better value, at least statistically. I see a lot of Knick games living here in Jersey and I just don’t know how his game helps us take a step forward. He’s a huge upgrade over Taj and Tyrus, but he’s not drawing a double team or anything like that. All in all, if we get Lee, that won’t be a bad thing just as having Deng is good, just not great.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
For the record
I don’t think Amare is in the top tier either and would pass on him and Boozer due to their injury history unless they came at a big discount.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
They might
Everyone is not going to get the MAX
Also
only APM numbers and shooting % from up close are from the last 3 years, not all of the numbers.
Joakim on whether he ever tried tennis: "I played a little bit. If anybody on the Bulls wanted to play me, I would kick their ass."
I guess,
but the eye-test says otherwise. I’ve watched the Knicks a few times this year(including that embarrassing loss to Dallas), and Lee doesn’t look like a guy that you can give the ball to 10-15 feet from the basket and say “score”. If you can get a scorer to play alongside Derrick, then by all means go and sign lee to play alongside Noah. But if Lee is all we can get this off-season, I think we’re in big trouble. And while we’re discussing the Knicks, is there any way to get Wilson Chandler over here. He’s not great by any means, but he looks like he can be a very solid player.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
isnt the whole point of lee that he is almost as good as these other guys but will
be cheaper so you can allocate more money to the bench/SG-to-be?
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
by TheMoon on Jan 27, 2010 12:12 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Can you do that with Amare?
It seems to me that if you give him the ball that far away, he either needs an open lane to dribble and dunk (often created by Nash) or he shoots a jumper. He doesn’t seem like someone that if you give him the ball that far away and someone is in his chops that he’ll score.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
explain those choices. whats so unusual about their seasons this year?
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
Interesting
Match up these 2010 salaries
A. $20 million
B. $16 million
C. $12 million
With these PFs
A. David Lee
B. Amare Stoudamire
C. Carlos Boozer
That will give you a general idea of the merits of said players.
Actually
Lee is only making 7 million this year. Where did you get the 20 mill from??
The Dude Abides
I think he's suggesting
That Amare will make $20 Million, Boozer $16 M, and Lee $12 M.
"I skim a LOT of what gets said here
in a race to put in a smirky retort."
-your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 16, 2009 4:52 PM EDT
thanks Jamaicanpi
that one went over my head….
The Dude Abides
So....
Tracy McGrady is the best player in the league?
Advanced Statistics:
Where Bulls fans accept that Reinsdorf will have a hard on for David Lee.
I saw T2 at Walgreens in Deerfield he’s tall. if you’re wondering what his grocery list included: magnums, french vanilla ice cream and a 20 oz sprite
by Super-Structure on Jan 26, 2010 5:06 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Just curious, do you have Carl Landry's PER/APM?
He’s not the rebounder these other guys are, but also could be a decent cheaper option.
Assuming we can’t get Bosh or Wade, I’d be ok with Joe Johnson and one of Landry/Lee if the cap space is created to do so. It’s not my first choice, but I wouldn’t hate it.
Here's a different perspective from WOW based on WP48 through 41 games with 0.100 being average
Camby 0.448
Love 0.431
Gasol 0.359
Duncan 0.357
Murphy 0.315
Garnett 0.276
Smith 0.272
Bosh 0.264
Randolf 0.255
Lee 0.247
Boozer 0.243
Varejeo 0.175
Jamison 0.152
Nowitzki 0.150
Ilyasova 0.146
Stoudemire 0.144
Martin 0.133
Randolf 0.117
Aldridge 0.103
Haslem 0.095
West 0.091
Battier 0.082
Brand 0.076
Thompson 0.073
Gibson 0.065
Villanueva 0.053
Lewis 0.026
Green 0.024
Yi Jianlian 0.014
Diaw -0.016
Look where Lewis, Brand, and Diaw are. Yikes. Let’s not get one of them.
RRRREEEEEEEEBBBBBBBBOOOOOOOOUUUUUUNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDDDSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
by TheMoon on Jan 27, 2010 12:15 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
heh, right.
this is a WoW free zone.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 27, 2010 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
hahaha diaw!
bobcats will never make the playoffs with that “piece of garbage”! ::sarcasm::
"Let's do some living... after we die"
Getting JJ and Lee isn’t too bad.
Noah,
Lee,
Deng
JJ
Rose
Taj/Salmons (or trade Salmons this year for expirings) next year’s pick and one or two more bench pieces and we’re at least in the discussion with teams such as Atlanta next year, a realistic shot at a 3-5 seed and a legitimate contender in the East if we click well. Not to mention a few years with this group to improve together.
Amare = Most Overated Big Man in Basketball
Sorry for those who want him, but he’s ridiculously overated. Watch a few Suns games and how he functions on the court. He can finish at the basket and has a ton of power. He’s a mediocre rebounder, horrendous passer, and turnover machine. He is one of the worst defensive big men in the game who can’t defend a pick & roll or adapt to any defensive scheme. One of the lowest basketball IQs I’ve seen in the league.
He makes this team better a offensively, but we give it up in other areas. Not worth the money.
You know what....
I agree with you here. I find he is greatly over rated and I really do not think he is a max deal talent. He does have good numbers I already concede that fact. However, his lack of durability and defensive intensity do make me question all the hype behind him. Not to mention having very talented players around him and still not being able to establish the team as one of the best makes me wonder. That is why I would lean towards signing 2 good players rather than just Amare.
The Dude Abides
I think he's a little overrated,
but I don’t think he deserves so much hate for his rebounding numbers. I don’t have the numbers, but the Suns are known to be a team that shoots a ton from the outside, they’re third in the NBA in 3PA. From the few times I’ve watched em, they also shoot a lot of mid range jump shots. It’s tough for a big to get a ton of boards when his teammates shoot a high volume of long distance shots, as long shots=long rebounds. All that said he does grab ~9 per game throughout his career, so it’s not like he’s Eddy Curry.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
is it possible to add wade and lee?
It seems as lee comes as most affordable guy that could be available next season out of 4 pf’s. What needs to be done to acquire wade with max contract and also squeeze lee in to our roster with rose and noah?
Can someone please
Discuss the Hawks situation and their ability or desire to resign JJ. While he may not be the top tier super star like D-Wade, it’s kinda cool to let Rose keep and develop that role. And in that sense, JJ might fit in better with his outside shot. David Lee isn’t a superstar either, but I do agree that a Lee and JJ scoop would be greater than just Amare. Also, I see Lee as the type that comes in day in day out playing his hardest and wanting to win, just like Noah, Taj, Rose (and Deng?). This type of player is what us Bulls fans respect and enjoy watching, and imo if Tyrus had half the heart, competetiveness, and work ethic of Noah or David Lee he would already have signed an extension with us.
by Pax_4_Prez on Jan 29, 2010 11:41 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I see no way to get Lee and JJ
They’ll make 25+ million combined next season, and we won’t have nearly that amount of cap room. Atlanta also won’t be trading JJ (for Luol, for example) because they’re in quasi-contention, and I don’t see the Knicks trading us Lee unless it’s for Noah and an expiring, because they need to keep their cap space, and we wouldn’t make that trade.
by YaoPau on Jan 29, 2010 12:12 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Good thought.
I think it is possible via sign and trade at years end. That way Atlanta does not lose JJ for nothing. It would give us a good SG that can hit 3’s and a good PF that rebounds like a freak and can score inside.
The Dude Abides
it's tricky, because they obviously have something good going in Atlanta
but they do have legitimate (not like the Bulls self-imposed) spending limits. Johnson’s already turned down a 4x$15m extension from them.
So the only way they bite the bullet and part ways is if they think Johnson’s asking for too much money, which means he probably IS asking for too much money, and to get him you have to pay him that too much money.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 31, 2010 1:48 PM CST up reply actions
"This type of player is what us Bulls fans respect and enjoy watching"
I want guys who are so talented they can loaf and be great :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 31, 2010 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
If we drop Tyrus (or trade him for expirings now) and move Hinrich, that leaves us with well over 25 million to sign players next season.
I think JJ is going to go for the money this offseason. I’m not saying Lee won’t, but nobody even made him an offer this offseason, which really surprised me. The Knicks did not seem to want to match a 5 year 50m or even 4 year 44m type deal on him. I’m not sure how some of the guys that signed this year for so much are a better value than Lee. Maybe there was something missing that I did not see, but I do not recall even a single report of a team offering Lee any money (the NYK had a chance to match but that would’ve screwed up the summer plans so I doubt they could’ve happily matched a reasonable deal).
David Lee is in a contract year.
I saw T2 at Walgreens in Deerfield he’s tall. if you’re wondering what his grocery list included: magnums, french vanilla ice cream and a 20 oz sprite
by Super-Structure on Jan 29, 2010 3:11 PM CST reply actions
And is performing
at the same level as his non-contract years. The only thing that’s changed is that his assist percentage has went up and his outside shot has gotten a little better. None of those things would be expected to regress even if he was somehow “trying harder” this year than usual.
There’s nothing in any of the numbers that says that Lee is doing anything differently. Also, he was in a contract year last year too. He certainly hoped to get a new contract anyway.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leeda02.html
Vinny: "[Thrust] means pace, it means getting the ball out, it means getting your back to the sidelines, it means extending your outlets, it means getting the ball up the court into our early offense with plenty of time."
by runningman on Jan 29, 2010 5:32 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
just for curiosity's sake
What would Bosh’s numbers look like as mystery player D?
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