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Around SBN: The Ten Worst Swings Of The 2011 Season

[From the FanShots. At least for today's game, the Warriors will let these jumpers be wide open -ed.]

This hoops data piece shouldn't be a revelation to anyone in terms of the bulls shot selection, but makes an interesting comparison between DRose and Tony Parker, specifically the pieces complimenting them.

about 2 years ago Mj_88_dunkcontest_tiny PeteRoc 82 comments 3 recs  | 

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I didn't realize Derrick was shooting better than Luol on long 2s

When you consider that Luol is assisted on a much higher percentage of his makes than Derrick, that’s pretty scary.

I know tons of people have been screaming for Luol to take more 3s, but if he has any desire to stay in Chicago, he better to do so for his own survival and hope he shoots a decent percentage.

"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan

by PeteRoc on Jan 18, 2010 10:16 AM CST reply actions  

If he's traded though

He still makes the same dough and a fresh start might not due him poorly…as he is pretty good as is and now has a negative vibe with many of the fans here….

Sadly....through thick and thin....

by majoyenrac on Jan 18, 2010 12:30 PM CST up reply actions  

The key take-away (for my money) on the Parker vs Rose comparison is this....
The Spurs are full of shooters who can stretch the offense and open up lanes for Parker to do his work.

While the author doesn’t take that any further, I still think Derrick’s FTAs (or lack thereof) are being “stunted” by the offense’s inability to open up the kind of lanes Tony P enjoys. In too many instances, front court defenders are allowed to wait for him at the basket instead of being forced to rotate over to him. In effect, its much easier to “draw contact” (or get calls) on moving defenders than stationary defenders who (by rule) have every right to jump straight up and contest shots without being whistled for fouls.

"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan

by PeteRoc on Jan 18, 2010 10:27 AM CST reply actions   2 recs

For me, my take away is I wonder if the stats are the same

Now that Derrick’s healthy…as before he was healthy he shot jumpers seemingly more frequently because he lost the step to attack the rim like he did last year and has been doing now…so it was easier to guard because he wasn’t getting by you nearly as much, and folks were pushing him into the outside shot and were defending it better….

Now that he’s healthy, he blows by folks if they play too close, and the defender has to worry he’s going to blow by them, so it opens up that jump shot.

I wonder….it seems his shooting’s improving dramatically as that ankle heals…

Sadly....through thick and thin....

by majoyenrac on Jan 18, 2010 12:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Since when is Deng a guard? I otherwise agree with this article. We shoot way too many midrange jumpers. We all yell at Deng for shooting a 20 ft jumper when he could step back and hit a 3. He has shown this year, he can be decent from 3 pt range…it’s a small sample size but he has to learn to hit 3s consistently….if he can do so, he could average 20/21 pts a game.

by C Smoove on Jan 18, 2010 10:40 AM CST reply actions  

Great article

Deng needs to step back. He consistently shoots jumpers with 1 foot on the line. That is asinine. The fact that no one has instructed him to step back on those jumpers is most damning. Long term, it doesn’t like Deng can be an effective high usage player next to Rose.

by Basketball Smurf on Jan 18, 2010 12:04 PM CST reply actions  

This article should also

quell those who tag Rose for having low assist numbers. He finds open guys quite a bit, but they’re always tossing up bricks from mid-range. It’s not his fault.

by Illini15 on Jan 18, 2010 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

I've been saying that to people all year

It’s like his critics don’t watch the games. Until the last month or so, he wasn’t shooting enough to me. He passes and they just don’t make shots like you said.

Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls

by bigballa10 on Jan 18, 2010 2:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, I think you're right on the "not watching games" part.

I mean, I like Hollinger’s stuff, but it’s clear he hasn’t watched too much of Rose when he’s firing off the Steve Francis and Stephon Marbury comparison like Derrick is some kind of ridiculously selfish ballhog. If this team could shoot at all, he’d easily be at 7-8 assists per game in my opinion. I mean, look at Russell Westbrook. He’s less of a “point guard” than Rose is, but he’s putting up 7.4 assists per game in 35 minutes ‘cause he’s passing to a scoring superstar like Kevin Durant.

by Illini15 on Jan 18, 2010 2:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Exactly

Hollinger was one of the main critics I was thinking about. Derrick isn’t selfish at all. In fact he defers to these guys too much IMO. He’s been taking it more on his own, which is necessary given the rest of the pieces around him.

Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls

by bigballa10 on Jan 18, 2010 2:45 PM CST up reply actions  

I keep thinking about that Hollinger quote

That the Bulls don’t pass back to Rose, because they know they won’t get it back.

That made me laugh a lot harder than any of his pointless short-sighted articles based completely on PER.

Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Jan 18, 2010 2:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah

that was worse than anything i’ve ever read from him because at least with PER he’s basing it on SOMETHING. He just pulled that out of his ass!

Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls

by bigballa10 on Jan 18, 2010 3:00 PM CST up reply actions  

That's craziness.

Metal sharpens metal.

And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan

The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.

by dakoose on Jan 18, 2010 3:02 PM CST up reply actions  

I think you're conflating a selfish playing style with a selfish personality.

And associate negativity with Marbury and Francis, therefore you think he’s saying bad things about Rose. I don’t remember the article , but I dont’ think that was the comparison.

Those guys were very good, scoring PG’s. They looked to score first and pass second. I think that’s exactly what Rose should do.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Jan 18, 2010 3:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, you didn't read the article.

And he basically called Rose a selfish player. It was ridiculous hyperbole.

by Illini15 on Jan 18, 2010 6:19 PM CST up reply actions  

He said Derrick needs to

“edit the steve francis” out of his game.

Nick Friedell: What's the biggest difference for you right now, compared to when you entered the league two years ago?

Joakim Noah: I would say eating breakfast.

by BigBenign on Jan 18, 2010 6:44 PM CST up reply actions  

This line had me scratching my head:
Rose and Deng’s poor perimeter shooting effectively shackles their penetrative ability

What. The other bad midrange shooters on the list: Ellis, Carmelo, Parker, Wade all use their jumper to set up penetration. Deng uses it as his #1 weapon to score. It’s as if the Bulls haven’t just picked grit over talent, but over intelligence as well.

by YaoPau on Jan 18, 2010 12:10 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah

they shoot the mid range jumper, when they can’t get to the basket. Parker and Deng are the only guys on that list who aren’t their teams main offensive options. Parker is shooting 4 a game, Deng is shooting 7. That is too many.

Carmelo and Wade each have a much higher usage% than Deng, they shoot 4- 5 more shots per 36 than Deng – the mid range shot is a lower percentage of their overall shot selection.

by Basketball Smurf on Jan 18, 2010 12:20 PM CST up reply actions  

VDN turning everyone into midrange shooters

is his biggest weakness as coach, and it’s killed our offense.

In 2009, the Bulls were 6th in 3pt%, yet shot the 23rd most 3’s.
In 2010, the Bulls are 20th in 3pt%, yet are shooting the least amount of 3’s in the league.

by YaoPau on Jan 18, 2010 12:07 PM CST reply actions  

Vinny isn't the problem.

Players who can’t make a 3pt shot reliably are the problem. if a player could shoot a high %3 he’d be taking it.

by Noe_Valley on Jan 18, 2010 12:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, from 3

Luol and Tyrus have always been bad 2pt shooters.

by YaoPau on Jan 18, 2010 1:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Whoops, got cut off

Yeah, from 3 (Salmons and Hinrich earlier on). Luol and Tyrus have always been bad 2pt jumpshooters.

by YaoPau on Jan 18, 2010 1:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Thats not true

Lu used to be a more reliable jump shooter.

The scoring load is too much for him, too much pressure. One game he’s on. The next he’s not.

by Trey23 on Jan 18, 2010 2:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Not according to the numbers

Luol in 2007: 42.6 eFG% on jumpshots
Luol in 2008: 40.6 eFG% on jumpshots
Luol in 2009: 38.1 eFG% on jumpshots
Luol in 2010: 40.9 eFG% on jumpshots

by YaoPau on Jan 18, 2010 3:03 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Interesting

The big change in Deng from his career year (06-07) has been taking him further from the basket and shooting worse in his declining number of inside opportunities

Jumpers/ Close, then interior eFG
61/39 .665
61/39 .606
66/34 .600
68/32 .615

Deng has changed from a player who was used a lot inside and very effective at it, to a guy that spends more time outside and makes less of the fewer inside opportunities he takes.

I’d add to that

2006: 38.4 eFG% on jumpers
62/38 .627

2005: 35.5 eFG% on jumpers
64/36 .642

by Sports2 on Jan 19, 2010 2:42 PM CST up reply actions  

he also never got minutes.

Nick Friedell: What's the biggest difference for you right now, compared to when you entered the league two years ago?

Joakim Noah: I would say eating breakfast.

by BigBenign on Jan 18, 2010 6:45 PM CST up reply actions  

And many say Thomas is stupid for taking the long jumpers.

I mean, he is, but maybe he’s just trying to get on the good side of the coach. I tend to excuse Thomas too much, but I wish people would just recognize that the coaching is absolutely horrible. He had Skiles, the only competent coach, for 7 months. The other two have been boobs.

People bemoan Thomas’s jumpers, but they don’t realize that it’s a team philosophy.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Jan 18, 2010 12:34 PM CST reply actions  

Thomas has also gone on the record saying he liked playing for Skiles.(I think)

Metal sharpens metal.

And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan

The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.

by dakoose on Jan 18, 2010 12:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep, specifically, if I remember, because he gave him direction and told him what to do.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Jan 18, 2010 12:45 PM CST up reply actions  

And the current coaches don't. Place giant eyeroll here.

The only thing holding TT back is TT, or maybe he just is Stromile Swift.

by Trey23 on Jan 18, 2010 12:58 PM CST up reply actions  

No, I don't think they do.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Jan 18, 2010 1:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Frankly

I was surprised Thomas’s 36.3% from there is better than our team average….I think it shows us that he can be at least competent as a FG shooter, slightly below league average, but at a position where that league average is probably lower than it would be for the guards…

I hope from VDN perspective he can tell THomas that’s a tool, but have him drive more and more and use that as more a last result.

The fact though that THomas is better than our team average from there, despite seemingly looking like he’s single-handily bringing that average down, has me really concerned with the rest of this club.

I wonder what this year Brad Millers % has been…I bet very low, which is odd because he can be a shooter.

Sadly....through thick and thin....

by majoyenrac on Jan 18, 2010 12:41 PM CST up reply actions  

I was with you there for a while

then you totally lost me at the end lol

Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls

by bigballa10 on Jan 18, 2010 9:35 PM CST up reply actions  

ahahaha

i love this post…and it sort of makes sense….

by rick_ross on Jan 18, 2010 9:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Let me get this straight...

Vinnie says that Thomas should “Not floating on the perimeter when he’s at power forward”. Really? This coming from a coach that let’s Brad Miller, not just pick and pop but shoot 3s and take the ball off the dribble? I don’t mind Vinnie trying to explain why he’s screwing over Tyrus, but at least make sense and not be hypocritical while doing it. Sheeeesh.

by Dils on Jan 19, 2010 1:46 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Hopefully, the Bulls will quit pretending they need a high-flying, poor shooting power forward and move Thomas to someone who values his athleticism at the deadline.

since when have the bulls been pretending they need tyrus? that’s been the fans.

also: as pointed out by majoyenrac, “poor shooting power forward” is a bit of a myth (or propaganda, if you prefer) since all bulls are shooting poorly. (so why single him out?)

"Let's do some living... after we die"

by marionette on Jan 19, 2010 2:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Time to raid Golden State and get

Morrow. Some solid/decent shooting 2010 free agents include Eddie House, Rasual Butler, Jason Kapono, Channing Frye, Roger Mason, Michael Finley, Kyle Korver and Mike Miller. Hopefully we can pick up one or two of those guys along with one of the premier ones.

Metal sharpens metal.

And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan

The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.

by dakoose on Jan 18, 2010 12:58 PM CST reply actions  

Morrow doesn't do much more...

He’s a great shooter but a weaker defender. The kid’s skinny but works hard in the off season, is a gym rat and might develop more but right now is injured and prior, was playing behind Curry and Ellis.

by Noe_Valley on Jan 18, 2010 1:10 PM CST up reply actions  

He doesn't have to be a star to help.

He cures what ails us. The guy is as pure of a 3pt shooter as there is in the league. Play him off of Rose for some spurts and he’ll make it rain.

Metal sharpens metal.

And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan

The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.

by dakoose on Jan 18, 2010 1:13 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah, he'd help.

I agree, he’d help this team and is a high character guy that Paxson prefers – a gym rat like Ben Gordon.

When Morrow is hot, the W’s just don’t feed him the ball and it drives Coach Nellie nuts.

Unlike the Warriors, the Bulls would probably find him more than shoot first PG/SG Monta Ellis and Curry. Our opponents would probably abuse him a bit on defense.

by Noe_Valley on Jan 18, 2010 1:23 PM CST up reply actions  

It's not like Kirk and Salmons are lock down defenders either, and sometimes you can't have it all.

That’s also why Morrow probably wouldn’t be a starter.

Metal sharpens metal.

And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan

The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.

by dakoose on Jan 18, 2010 1:26 PM CST up reply actions  

How many more assists would Derrick get if his teammates could shoot a lick?

Surrounded by actual shooters, Derrick would be good for 8-9 assists per game, not the measly 6 he’s getting after Deng front rims his 20 footers, a la Larry Hughes. For those of us who would love to see Derrick in the all star game(and he should be there, just look at all of the other shit point guards in the East), another 2-3 assists nightly would make him a sure thing.

With the All Star thing, here’s his competition: Arenas, Jennings, Willams, Rondo. Arenas won’t be there, so that’s just Rondo, Williams and Jennings.
Jennings has severely regressed lately: 38.7% shooting!?!?! I guess the concerns were right. Since December, Jennings has shot above 40 precent just five times.
WIliams is all right, but he’s no all star. He cans shoot the three really well, but that’s it.
Rondo’s the closest to Derrick, but Derrick is more of an all-star than Rondo. He’s far more entertaining, is a better scorer and would be much closer to Rondo in assists if he were surrounded by sure-fire hall of famers. As of now, Derrick is the best PG in East. Isn’t he?

Metal sharpens metal.

And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan

The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.

by dakoose on Jan 18, 2010 1:08 PM CST reply actions  

Winning is everything.

If Bulls can make a 2nd round appearance, maybe 5th seed win vs the Hawks, Rose will be an all star. If he had better stats but didn’t make a playoff run, he’d be about where he is now.

Jennings is flavor of the month, and next year it will be another guy.

by Noe_Valley on Jan 18, 2010 1:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Meh.

Iverson’s in. That’s ridiculous.

Metal sharpens metal.

And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan

The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.

by dakoose on Jan 18, 2010 1:15 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

TeeVee exposure

I don’t like it either but winning on Playoff TeeVee will make Rose an all-star.

Warriorsland fans want TMac to win – he’ll probably not play. That would allow the NBA to select an alternative and the hope is the NBA picks Monta Ellis in TMac’s place.

by Noe_Valley on Jan 18, 2010 1:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Drose right now is an All-Star

Imagine if his teammates were closer to average and he didn’t hurt his ankle?
Now imagine when he adds a 3pt shot, even if he is just average from the arc.
Imagine if he improves his fundamentals.
Imagine when he improves his clutch shooting/decision making

And imagine playing with players who A) complement him better and B) want to play for him

He is mini-Lebron.

Taj, TT, and Miller as his running mates leaves something to be desired.

by Trey23 on Jan 18, 2010 1:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Imagine if he had a good coach....

Imagine if Thomas simply got a basketball IQ. He’d be the bestest ever.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Jan 18, 2010 2:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Or he didn't disappear everyonce and while.

Isn’t it true that Tyrus occasionally just doesn’t show up for work? I mean the guy has unexcused absences from team functions.

by Noe_Valley on Jan 18, 2010 3:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Once?

Shame on him.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Jan 18, 2010 3:32 PM CST up reply actions  

In terms of PER, Derrick's got a shot

Figure Iverson and Wade are already in. After that, it’s

1. Rondo, 19.8
2. Joe Johnson, 19.3
3. Iguodala, 18.5
4. Crawford, 17.9
5. Rose, 17.1
6. Mo Williams, 16.3
7. Vince Carter, 16.3
8. Jennings, 15.8
9. Stuckey, 15.7
10. Allen, 14.7

I’d think Rondo and Joe Johnson are locks. If coaches decide to bring in a 5th guard (I’d suspect that’s likely since Iverson was wrongly voted in), it’s between Rose, Mo Williams, Ray Allen, and Vince Carter. Some big names there, but Rose leads the pack in PER, and has bonafide all-star numbers the past 1.5 months (21ppg, 4rpg, 6.5apg).

It’d be pretty crazy to see this crappy Bulls team get two all-stars, but Rose and Noah can both get in.

by YaoPau on Jan 18, 2010 1:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Rose deserves to be in

but looking at those names, I wouldn’t be surprised if they pick one of those guys from the top teams, either Mo Williams or Ray Allen. They don’t deserve it over Rose, but all star selection is dumb sometimes.

Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls

by bigballa10 on Jan 18, 2010 2:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Jennings was bound to regress, he was shooting some ridiculous percentages in the first month of the season.

Over 50% from three-point land the first 16 games of the season, and he was finishing at the rim at an unsustainable rate given his body type. I don’t think his future lies in being a big-time scorer anyways, more as an elite passer who can occasionally light it up from outside. Can’t really see him turning into Iverson or adding any more bulk to that frame.

Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Jan 18, 2010 2:17 PM CST up reply actions  

He's regressed badly

FG%

Nov 42%
Dec 37.5%
Jan 28%

He’s just a glorified streetballer at this point, I imagine he misses a lot of crazy running floaters, off-balance jumpers.

I blame Skile.

by Trey23 on Jan 18, 2010 2:23 PM CST up reply actions  

NBA defenses are adjusting to his game, how is this an indictment of his playing style?

People are stupid and expected way too much out of him after the 55 point game.

Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Jan 18, 2010 2:27 PM CST up reply actions  

No, its not just defenses adjusting to his game.

A player’s shooting percentage doesn’t drop below 40 just because defenses are playing him differently. Here are his monthly FG percentages from Nov-Jan: 51.6, 42, 37.6, 28.4. Here are his 3pt percentages: 55.6, 49.3, 32.4, 30.8.
He’s talented, for sure, but his production has taken a biiiig hit over the least ~2 months.

Metal sharpens metal.

And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan

The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.

by dakoose on Jan 18, 2010 2:45 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think that's a fair statement at all

His shooting has regressed but he has still been running the team and isn’t a high turnover guy. The problem is the Bucks shouldn’t need to rely on a rookie point guard to be the main scorer on offense. If he didn’t need to carry so much of the offensive load, with defenses more focused on him, his shooting would likely be better.

Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls

by bigballa10 on Jan 18, 2010 2:28 PM CST up reply actions  

That doesn't explain the 28%

I imagine he’s taking difficult shots. I’m trying to figure out the abysmal regression.

by Trey23 on Jan 18, 2010 2:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Read this article

http://basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=868

Jennings’ accuracy has taken a hit from each of the different shot locations Hoopdata.com records, but by far the most striking change is in terms of what I’ve called “close” shots—from within 10 feet but not right at the rim. Jennings was making these shots at an unsustainable rate early in the season—only one player with at least 25 attempts from this range has made more than 60 percent of them, that being Chicago’s Derrick Rose. The league average on close shots is 43.9 percent accuracy, and Jennings is now making 36.8 percent of his attempts from this distance.

In the Every Play Counts breakdown I did on Jennings two games into his career, I noted being impressed with the touch Jennings showed on floaters, his go-to shot from close range. In hindsight, I should have been more cynical, since the floater is one of the league’s most difficult shots to master. Jennings is finding that out the hard way.

Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Jan 18, 2010 2:45 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Fool me once, fool me twice

Jennings is being scouted and teams are preparing for him.

Warriors had a disastrous first game vs Jennings – 55 pts! No way he was going to do that again. In the 2nd Game they slowed him to 25 pts.

So Jennings, like Rose, is being scouted heavily and teams are preparing for him.

Welcome to the NBA.

by Noe_Valley on Jan 18, 2010 3:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Whoo Hoo!

only one player with at least 25 attempts from this range has made more than 60 percent of them, that being Chicago’s Derrick Rose.

We miss you, Ben Gordon!

by Granny Waiters on Jan 18, 2010 8:44 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

He's a rookie who had a nice hot streak

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/81396247.html

Skiles was also asked before the game if guard Brandon Jennings had hit a rookie wall of sorts and Skiles said that he had to a certain degree.

"He has," said Skiles. "He’s struggled. He still runs the team well and he’s a low turnover player but he has struggled to shoot the ball. Much like the rest of our team, we’ve struggled much of the year just flat out making open shots, except for that little span at the beginning of the season when he was making a lot.

He’s played more like a typical rookie which is understandable and we let him play through it because we’re really high on him, but it would be nice if some of our veteran guys could step up and carry us a little bit so we wouldn’t have to rely so much on Brandon."

Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls

by bigballa10 on Jan 18, 2010 2:57 PM CST up reply actions  

My guess is he was just really lucky early on

In europe last year, Jennings shot 38% from the field and 23% from 3s. You don’t go from James Johnson to Ray Allen overnight.

Look at his first 10 games this year via hoopdata’s game log. He really only had four efficient games in his first twenty. Of course, they were packed together in a nine game spread, which gave some people the idea that he was the next superstar. It’s luck.

Since then, his numbers look like his euro numbers, which makes sense. He’s stopped making 3s at his ridiculous rate, and the game log shows that teams have stopped him from penetrating and forced him to take jumpers. He’s had just 43 close attempts in his last 15 games compared to 75 close attempts in his first 15 games.

I doubt he’s a 28% FG shooter either (bad luck happens too), but there’s no reason to think Jennings was ever as good as he played early on.

by YaoPau on Jan 18, 2010 2:59 PM CST up reply actions  

In other words, your argument is that if

teams didn’t prepare to stop Jennings, he’d return to form. I just don’t see it in his history why he should be anything more than the mediocre player he’s been since his hot start.

Plenty of scrubs have huge games before: Dana Barros, Abdul-Rauf, Tony Delk. I see more evidence that Jennings is like those players than someone who needs to consistently be gameplanned for.

by YaoPau on Jan 18, 2010 3:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, if teams know what his tendencies/weaknesses are.

Every guy in the NBA is scouted and they know player’s tendencies/weaknesses.

The reason guys have hot starts is that they are unknowns. Once scouted, they’re easier to stop. Jennings had a hot start but a guy who gets 55 pts will be scouted and teams learn how to defend him. Say they force him to the right if he wants to drive to the left.

Who do the Bucks have to take the load off Jennings? They’re a bad team who Skiles got to play over their skill level. Now NBA teams that them serious, prep for the rookie and the Bucks will struggle.

by Noe_Valley on Jan 18, 2010 3:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Abdul Rauf wasn't a scrub

He had a little trouble adjusting to the league but he could always play.

Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls

by bigballa10 on Jan 18, 2010 4:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Bucks sign Stackhouse (he couldn't help us?)

Roy out with hamstring, maybe we can do a deal with Portland now? They are dropping like flies.

by Trey23 on Jan 18, 2010 2:27 PM CST reply actions  

We already have Jerry Stackhouse, his name is John Salmons.

Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Jan 18, 2010 2:28 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

"Ultimately, it's a shame to watch a transcendant talent at point guard like Rose play without adequate complementary pieces."

Sad, but true. Get some shooters around this kid to complement his game for God’s sake!

Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls

by bigballa10 on Jan 18, 2010 2:47 PM CST reply actions  

Isn't that what usually happens?

Most transcendent talents go to shitty teams with high draft picks. That’s just the way it goes. Interestingly enough, our team wasn’t as shitty as a team picking #1 should be, but as a lottery team the principle still applies.

Metal sharpens metal.

And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan

The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.

by dakoose on Jan 18, 2010 3:05 PM CST up reply actions  

He made the playoffs his rookie year...

We suck I suppose, but let’s look back.

The team tanked a season and lucked into the top pick. Prior to that bad year, the Bulls were making the 1st playoff round under Skiles. Is that a shitty team? No.

So as things go, Rose has it easy. He’s a #1 pick that went to a team that made several playoff appearances prior and then went back his rookie year.

by Noe_Valley on Jan 18, 2010 3:36 PM CST up reply actions  

This is in reference to this year

Not his rookie year. His supporting cast has gotten a lot worse either by subtraction (BG) or just regression (Salmons, Miller, Hinrich).

Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls

by bigballa10 on Jan 18, 2010 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

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