Look at his numbers compared to Dejuan Blair. They really aren't all that different, and given the fact that Gibson (unlike Blair) has a better than 50/50 chance to still be able to walk in 3 years, you can't complain about this pick. As it turns out, Gibson has been one of the steals of the draft. Nice job on that pick, even if we didn't believe it at the time.
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Yeah I have to admit he was a good pick.
I never really had a problem with it though. James Johnson shows flashes but he really hasn’t gotten any time for me to pass judgement on him yet.
I think two factors came into the Gibson selection over Blair, one the knees issue and two I think his jumper is fairly consistent. I’m not sure Blair even has a jumper. Next to Noah that might create a problem.
why is there an asshole on my wheaties box?
have you seen blair play?
dude has some nice post moves. thats exactly what we lack. size and post offense. i watched him play yesterday and he does not play like a 6’6" dude. he was posting up and banging up bigger guys.
No I can't say I have seen a lot.
I have seen some though and from what I noticed he is a beast. But I guess the way the Bulls use the Pick and Roll with Rose maybe Taj would be a better fit with his jumper? It would have been interesting though and thats who I wanted the Bulls to pick too. (Blair & Lawson)
why is there an asshole on my wheaties box?
I just don't understand why it has to be:
“We shoulda taken Blair, so fuck Taj”. Why can’t people just say, perhaps Blair was the better choice, but Gibson has been pretty impressive. I just love how he’s adapted to playing team basketball (particularly defense) so quickly. I know he’s older, but this is still his first year. Also, it seems like he’s never forcing it out there and he’s very comfortable with his game, it’s like he knows exactly what he’s capable of, and does it. I like him.
Neil takes the fun out of funk
by Juiceboxjerry on Jan 15, 2010 2:38 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Agreed...
Although, I will say that while Gibson has been better than expected, he still has not impressed me tons. Last night esspecially, he did not finish strong at the rim and missed open jumpers. If he would finish stronger at the rim, his rebound numbers would be down just a bit. Yes, it is still his first year, but age does matter! Why would you draft someone older than your starting (formerly) PF? Perhaps I’ll be wrong, but I think Taj’s floor and ceiling are at the same point: right where he is now. Blair’s floor is even with Taj’s, but the ceiling is much higher.
Look at their Per 36 minute and Advanced stats
Blair has been far better than Taj and is 4 years younger. Even if Taj sticks around the NBA longer, Blair was, and is, more likely to give the team better value over the length of the rookie contract. Gibson’s been better than I would have expected, but Blair is the better player.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jan 15, 2010 8:46 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
yea, doug appears to have lost his mind
in the comments he tries to backtrack a bit making up some nebulous excuse about blairs knees being the reason he cant play big minutes like taj, and blair having better teammates. right doug, like blairs knees really prevented him from playing big minutes and dropping 28 and 21 the other night. i dont understand why we have to trash blair in order to build taj up; taj has turned out to be a pretty good pick at 26, but blair has so far been the better player. time will tell if his knees hold up, but please dont start makin bullshit arguments about how taj has been better than blair this year. taj has been decent, but blairs been better.
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
he also picked up a medical degree recently.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 15, 2010 9:40 AM CST up reply actions
and this ladies and gentleman is why watching the games will always be more important
than “advanced stats” Blair doesn’t have half the responsibilities for the Spurs that Taj has for the Bulls. Blair might already have cooked his knees if he was playing the minutes that Taj does. What would Taj’s “advanced stats” be if he came in and played second teamers to give Duncan a breather. Ridiculous.
it is so frustrating that the best place to chat about the bulls is dominated by a whiny drama queen moderator with a man crush on an average SG......6 recs
by BigforkBullsFan on Jan 17, 2010 6:36 PM CST up reply actions
yeah, those extra seven minutes a game must be killers. and if you look at blairs numbers as
a starter, hes a little more productive than taj…in 4 fewer minutes. plus, as usual, hes loads more efficient.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
I like the ol' "his knees will give out because he has no ACL's" argument.
Unlike Hines Ward, who is missing one… or both ACL’s and has had a long productive career.
Before anyone says, yeah, but the exception doesn’t disprove the rule or whatever, that’s my point. Nobody’s ever given me a reason why a guy without ACL’s can’t play for a long time. Sure it doesn’t make sense to the lay person, but if you would have told me that even walking without ACL’s, let alone playing basketball, was possible, I would have laughed at you. So obviously, in my opinion, not having ACL’s defies the layperson’s wisdom, so… who says his knees are going to explode… ever?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
by tyger1147 on Jan 15, 2010 9:56 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
It's kind of a logical fallacy to compare a wide receiver and a PF/center
in terms of how important an ACL injury can mean to their careers. Basketball does much more wear and tear on your knees than football.
The argument is moot regardless. ACL injuries aren’t nearly as devastating as a microfracture surgery.
A logical fallacy?
Nice try on the big words there. I’d like to know your evidence for your statements. Sure, your knees take a pounding in basketball, but that seems to have to do more with the cartilage in between your leg bones, not the ACL. I’d think the abrupt and sharp cuts for a WR are quite strenuous for an ACL.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
thx for compliment
It’s not the hardest thing to understand, especially when you know what causes an ACL tear; hyperextension (which is common with excessive jumping and hopping), and pivoting injuries, which is especially common for bball players fighting for position.
Sure, your knees take a pounding in basketball, but that seems to have to do more with the cartilage in between your leg bones, not the ACL
I guess if you’re talking about articular cartilage repair, which is related to microfracture surgery, which is what I said in my post if you read.
WR don't hyperextend ever, or pivot at all.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
it's not even an argument
Blair is a poster-child for a new wave of trying to apply metrics to college scouting. It’s not even close to a perfect science yet, but early returns are that beastly rebounders have their numbers translate to the pros. Everyone inclined in these types of things said look for this to happen with Blair.
The Bulls needed a widebodied big who could defensively rebound. They should’ve taken Blair. They took another stringbean offensive-tip-in PF, who’s 24. He’s better than expected. Fine, it’s still a mistake. A lot of other teams made that same mistake, yes, but the Bulls had two chances.
The ACL thing is bunk given the position in the draft. If anything GMs should’ve ignored the fear and pulled a Kevin Pritchard, draft talent with an injury history, and when they get injured blame it on the basketball gods ;-)
You know, you can be happy that they took Taj and still mad they didn’t take Blair. I don’t think there’s any case for not taking Blair because they would’ve missed out on the great Taj Gibson. Or just slag them for taking James Johnson, who looks worthless.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 15, 2010 11:00 AM CST reply actions 6 recs
The best reason I can come up with
is that Blair is short and not that quick. I think teams wouldn’t put their centers on Blair and their power forwards on Noah, which I think would have taken away Noah’s best attribute: his quickness relative to the guy guarding him. It also would have taken away Blair’s best attribute his strength. It’s not an impeccable argument, but it’s one that makes sense to me.
"I skim a LOT of what gets said here
in a race to put in a smirky retort."
-your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 16, 2009 4:52 PM EDT
in hindsight that's what they should have done
grabbed taj (since they love him so much and were surprised he was there at 26) with the first pick instead of james johnson, and then grabbed blair with that second pick cuz he was still freakin there… That way you get the pf you want, and possibly get teh best pf available at the same time. If blair goes down with injury, you s till have the pf you want…but thats hindsight…
I still cant understand the james johnson pick, even with his potential, where does he fit…its not a knock on jj, but i still want to know what was the reason for drafting him? Fear that deng would go down? if thats it then okay, but i wish they would just come out and say it…its not insulting deng…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
he'll possibly fit a lot better next year
remember, they likely went into this draft knowing they’ll let Tyrus walk in the offseason
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 15, 2010 1:31 PM CST up reply actions
Or would trade him for a bag of basketballs...
If there were any takers…
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
See that's why you should be pissed
with management. The whole ‘09 draft was about finding Tyrus’s replacement. They weren’t interested in anything else. That’s why I pound these guys for not starting Tyrus now. It’s not about wins and losses. It’s about rationalization.
If they were serious about making the ‘09-10 Bulls better then you draft Ty Lawson and Dujuan Blair. PERIOD. It wasn’t rocket science then, and the results don’t surprise me now. You’d have your tough rebounder and your backup to your star PG for the next 5 years. Then you have flexibility in trading Hinrich without worrying about getting a PG in return. No disrespect to Taj but screw the idea of Taj Gibson. The Bulls got lucky with a 24 year old bench player whose numbers are decent because, to his credit, he maximizes his effort but also gets his minutes and gets plays ran for him early. They’ve done everything possible to ensure he succeeds so they won’t have to explain the misses in that draft or why they are giving up on Tyrus. The hype of Taj Gibson by management and the media is insulting to any fan that’s actually following this team and watching the games.
I'm fine with Doug's overall point
I understand the logic on passing on Blair, and I understand the logic of all the team doctors who wouldn’t risk their titles giving clearance to a midround pick. So it’s fine, I like Taj, and I like JJ too.
But as for “They really aren’t all that different”, well, they’re completely different. One’s 6’9" and 150lbs, the other is wider than he is tall. And that was a big reason why Blair was so appealing. We’ve got a bunch of PFs and Cs who are great at guarding screens and help defense, but nobody who can guard one on one in the post. Oh well.
Dear Doug, learn how to write a "Taj Gibson is good" post without comparing him to someone who is actually better than him.
I like Taj, he’ll be a successful backup for the Bulls the next few years, but comparing him to Blair is pretty stupid. And if you’re going to parrot the whole “Blair will be out of the league in 2 years” meme, then wait till it actually happens before you pound your chest about it.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
though that puts you in the odd position of rooting for someone to be injured
but hey, it’s tough in the prediction business! I prefer the hindsight business, where I can say the Bulls look stupid.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 15, 2010 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
Interestingly enough, I remember calculating out Taj's rebound rate and thinking it was pretty good
Unfortunately (because now it’s going to make it sound like a bunch of after the fact bullshit) I never got around to posting it, but he did measure out with fine size and athletically. I actually had him as kind of a sleeper choice since he seemed to fit the profile of a successful player. After he was drafted I did a little more in depth statistifying on Taj and didn’t totally hate what I found. His rebound rate was quite good, and didn’t come through in his basic stats, which were pretty marginal.
So I think I’m just gonna give credit where it’s due that Taj is maybe a very good pick.
The only criticism is that maybe Blair was a better one. And obviously nobody would be complaining if we got him. But I’m not even 100% sold on that. I had lots of doubts on Blair coming in, and maybe playing next to Tim Duncan doesn’t exactly hurt him. To wit, Hot Spots suggests Blair has taken about 90% of his shots right under the basket. This is one fear I had of him coming in, especially with Noah as our center, who shoots about 80% of his shots right under the basket.
What I’m saying is, these are two guys who should never be on court together.
Meh. Maybe.
A) Duncan wasn’t there for this game in question.
B) As a permanent fit, sure, it’s not ideal. I don’t believe, however, that they should “never” be on the court together. Start Thomas and Noah, reserve Blair and Miller. Blair played center in this game… basically, match him up with Thomas and Miller as much as possible. If you get Noah out there with him for 5-10 mpg, I’m not certain it’s the end of the world.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I know I'm nowhere near the first to observe this,
but this is ridiculous.
Blair beats Taj by a significant margin in PER, TS%, EF%, ORB%, DRB%, TRB%(obviously), AST%, ORtg, and DRtg. It’s not even close.
"Make good basketball plays!"
-VDN
He might have been a better long-term pick as well.
If you’re into the notion that Thomas is going to walk or get traded, and the Bulls will sign, or trade, for a power forward, then Blair could have came off the bench for Noah.
Rose
HopefullynotHinrich
Deng
NewPF/Blair
Noah/Blair
Gibson isn’t as flexible of a player to be able to play both the 4 and the 5. Blair is. However, oOne of the holes with that scenario is how long Blair is actually going to hold up, physically, over the next couple of years. But it’s not like he’s Michael Sweetney’ing his way out of the league. He’s looking in better shape right now than when he was in Pittsburgh. Look here. And hasn’t Gibson had more injury ailments so far in the NBA than Blair?
That, and, if Blair were with the Bulls, his PER would be the highest among anyone else.
Here is a convenient way to compare the numbers:
Blair is shooting a much higher percentage, which is not surprising since Taj takes many more mid-range jumpers.
Gibson’s FT shooting is horrible (somewhat surprising since his form is not bad) while Blair’s is downright putrid. Neither guy should be on the floor when the other team is intentionally fouling.
Blair is a much superior rebounder. Gibson is the better shot-blocker and turns the ball over less.
For offense and rebounding you want Blair, for defense you want Gibson.
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Jan 17, 2010 4:16 PM CST up reply actions
Personally I think Blair will play a regular career. I know it’s two different sports, but football to me would be harder on the knees…with all the cutbacks on that fake artificial turf not mention guys who purposefully hitting your knees all game. If Ward can play 10+ years in one of the most physically brutal sports, Blair can manage at least 6 years in the NBA. We needed more bulk for post defense which is why Blair was a better option at 26. Gibson is nice but he is a backup..Malik Allen Jr. We should have gotten a SG at 16.
that's a logical fallacy
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
by tyger1147 on Jan 16, 2010 8:45 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
i agree
i think football is a tougher sport on your body, and the risk of injury to the knees, even for a wide receiver, are still greater.
by Basketball Smurf on Jan 16, 2010 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
Apples and oranges
Football you suffer more collision related injuries and less endurance related injuries. You see guys take a cortison shot, tape their broken fingers or cut them off, cover their broken ribs with flap jackets and go back in the game. You play less than 20 games a season and can sit out most of training camp.
A WR doesn’t necessarily stay on the field or necessarily need to run a route when they are on the field. The odds of a possession receiver in NFL overcoming an ACL injury and being productive are much greater than NBA player. I am sure if you played said NBA player 20 games a year 10-15 minutes a game he might be productive in that role.
"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ
IMO..
jj was drafted for 3 depth and Taj for 4 depth. If everyone thinks the bulls drafted poorly, then imagine drafting two PFs (Blair and Gibson) with Tyrus and Tim Thomas on the roster (I forgot when they bought him out but I think he was still on the roster), plus Noah ( and Deng?) who have played at the 4 as well. So after taking Johnson, the Bulls must have been left with Gibson and (hopefully) Blair on their draft boards and went with Gibson
In any case, the biggest problem was taking Johnson, not Taj, they could have draft any of these players instead of James Johnson and still taken Taj (assuming Gibson was high on the Bulls draft board.
JAMES JOHNSON
Jrue Holiday
Ty Lawson
Jeff Teague
Eric Maynor
Darren Collison
Victor Claver
Omri Casspi
Byron Mullens
BJ Mullens
Rodrigue Beaubois
TAJ GIBSON
don't let the bed bugs bite
still doesnt explain james johnson
True Story: John Salmons sucks so bad, Tiger Woods wants to meet him
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