SBN NBA Power Rankings - Bulls 22nd (and I do some reflecting)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 12, 2010 10:50 PM CST
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PrintMike Prada's been doing entertaining work with these, and here's an example:
And you know what [a ~.500 season] means. Angry, bitter Bulls fans bitching (correctly, I might add) about their dysfunctional organization, their braindead coach, their overpaid swingman, their chucking shooting guard and their cerebral backup point guard whom the organization treats like a son. Can't wait!
Am I (and we) that predictable?
(note: I keep feeling the need to distance myself from Deng-bashers. He's not THAT overpaid, only if your team never pays the tax. whoops.)
But it does bring me to some self-reflection. I simply do not feel invested in wins and losses this season. We've had some stretches indicative of a future 'surge' to .500, and others where that turnaround seems unlikely. The Bulls may not even need to get to .500 to make the playoffs in the East, and they'll never be bad enough to tank for lottery balls, or fire their coach midseason. A low seed and first-round playoff exit (or barely missing out of the playoffs) seems so inevitable.
I don't even feel much good for the important pieces (Rose and Noah) improving, since this won't be their team or their coach for much longer. I want to see that group start to grow, not this one play out a string. And it's still fun to root for my favorite project, Tyrus Thomas, but there's always cynicism reminding me that his Bulls career is nearing an end. (UPDATE: ChicagoNow explains why)
I suppose this post has been written before, but we have some days off before a potentially terrible west coast trip, and there's time to talk it out: what are you looking for when watching the actual games? Not the speculation over the Org.'s buffoonery, or their plans in free agency, or trade ideas, but the games?
Is it wins? progress? evidence to win BaB arguments? reasons to hate Neil Funk? I see these reasons and many more as equally valid, since there's little actual relevance to what's going on the court in the big picture of championship building, when the team actually gets around to it.
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Progress
Im looking for progress, looking to see rose get closer to that superstar status, in demeanor, in plays, in game changing moments…I also (miserably almost) wait for when hinrich finally returns back to the form he was in 06, back on the path of being relevant to the nba guard conversation…im a hopefull (hopeless?) optimist in that regard
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
obviously, im looking for continued growth in noah and rose
im also looking for (and holding out hope) that deng will continue to shoot more threes and knock some down.
im looking for any sign of life from james johnson (and he’s shown that he might actually have a pulse recently)
im looking for— as always— tyrus to play out of his mind, even if i know he’s got one foot out the door
im looking for salmons to continue his improved play of late so that he’ll opt out (or, conversely, that the org. pisses him off so much that he wants out of here after the year)
im looking for brad miller to make it from one end to the other in under 10 seconds
im looking for taj to keep playing decently, even though the org. makes me want to puke with how much they love him
im looking for kirk to be sent out for cap room. nothing personal against kirk, and i actually dont mind his game, it’s just if we’re actually serious about this nebulous 2010 “plan”, we need more cap space, and a player like kirk— especially on a team set at PG— is a luxury we cannot afford right now at 9 mill a year
im looking for the bulls to win as much as possible for the double benefit of watching playoff basketball (even if/when we get absolute shellacked), and the added selling point it could be to wade/lebron/bosh/amare
im looking for the mute button to eliminate neil funk from my life
i agree wholeheartedly with you that it sucks watching this group essentially play out the string to a 7-10 seed in the east, especially when after last year steps couldve been taken immediately to start the growth and championship building right away, but in this holding tank of a season, those are about the best things i can muster up to look for.
http://ExtendtheGame.blogspot.com
by Calogero on Jan 12, 2010 11:20 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
I've been as down on the org as anybody
and still have VERY serious doubts about their ability to pull this team out of their seemingly endless run of bad to mediocre play, but I do have to admit that, other than having a real championship contender ala the Lakers, Celtics, etc., I kinda like our situation more than most others. And I really think that there’s still plenty of reasons to watch these games (Neil Funk definitely not being one).
When I read this:
I don’t even feel much good for the important pieces (Rose and Noah) improving, since this won’t be their team or their coach for much longer.
Which I’ve heard you say before, I think that’s kind of a cop out. I know doubt feel where you’re coming from, and would also like to see more of a foundation for these young guys. but I really think you’re overstating it when you say that you don’t feel good for them as a result.
Then again, I’m more in the camp that believes team success is predicated way more on the players than the coach. And actually, the very fact that Rose and Noah have been able to flourish the way they have under someone like Vinny is encouraging in it’s own right.
To me, half the fun of rooting for a championship team was watching the years before and seeing how it all came to be, hopefully we’ll get there and a few of the guys that are currently here will be on that team and all of this hair pulling will be justified. If I just wanted to root for a winner, I would go buy a Lakers hat.
Neil takes the fun out of funk
In all honesty I'm with you on this one
I don’t even feel much good for the important pieces (Rose and Noah) improving, since this won’t be their team or their coach for much longer.
It’s hard to get excited about honestly anything but trades at this point for me only because I feel as if they do make a trade, I’ll have a much better idea of where this mess ends up
To quote the late King of Pop: "THIS IS IT!"
For me, this is the Bulls organizations’ last chance to prove that they value WINNING A TITLE as much as MONEY and not just money alone. I EXPECT them to grab one of the big three free agents! (Lebron,Wade,or Bosh) Chicago is a big market city but not so big that it’s annoying.(New York) AND we have Derrick Rose; the LEBRON JAMES of point guards! If the Bulls brass fucks this up then its ONLY because they didn’t try hard enough! But lets be positive shall we: Rose and Noah will continue to improve. Both players have too much talent and fire not to, despite all the drama. Like all of you fellow bloggers i don’t expect this team to get to the championship this season but i do expect this team to be championship-caliber NEXT season!
"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta
by The Red Menace on Jan 13, 2010 12:01 AM CST up reply actions
I read that quote as Rose and Noah demanding trades to a better team,
or taking the QO so they can leave early as free agents. : (
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Jan 16, 2010 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
Angry, bitter Bulls fans bitching (correctly, I might add)
he he
True Story: John Salmons sucks so bad, Tiger Woods wants to meet him
by Belize on Jan 12, 2010 11:59 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Derrick Rose indeed
And the hope that the Bulls won’t remain in a perpetual state of whatever the hell we’ve been through the last decade.
(Wait… Oh God… )
by ToroToroToro on Jan 13, 2010 1:28 AM CST up reply actions
As bad as things have been,
I like our chances going forward. Look around the conference. Are there any bad teams that look like they can be up and comers?
Washington, Charlotte, Detroit, Indiana, Philly, New York(They may get a big FA but they have very little to put around him) and Toronto have bleak futures and not much in the way of “real” young talent, so that eliminates nearly half of the conference(New Jersey has some decent pieces, but they really really really suck!).
Boston is coming very close to the end of it’s short lived life atop the conference. Sure, Rondo does his thing and will continue to do his thing, but Allen is done after this season, Pierce can leave and Garnett is there through 2012. Perkins is up for an extension after next year, so they won’t have much to spend.
Orlando seems to be stuck as an “almost” contender. They’ll win a bunch of games and make things tough in the playoffs, but I dunno if they’ll make many more finals with the way the play.
Atlanta is going to take a step back when Joe Johnson leaves. At this point, they’re likely not even a conference finals team, and they’re going be worse next year.
Milwaukee has Bogut and Jennings, but they’re not going to get any big FA and are also going to be “good” enough to be picking in the mid-late teens in the draft, so getting a real difference player through the draft is a long shot. I see them being a perennial late seed playoff team for the foreseeable future.
That leaves Cleveland and Miami. Both teams’ future lie in their soon to be star FA. If they leave, their teams are in big trouble and at least a year or two from a lottery pick, so they may be out of the running for a while.
There’s a whole bunch of shit in this conference, and the Bulls might be in the position to take a huge leap in the next year or two. Our two young guns are already pretty damn good as it is and continue to improve before our very eyes. We get a star and now we’re talking about moving into the discussion for the conference finals as soon as next year.
I might be dreaming, but the stars are aligned for the Bulls to make a few changes and get to the top of the East. It can be done, but can management do it?
Am I nuts?
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
Hey man i LOVE your positivity!
Here’s what i believe: I believe that Derrick Rose is meant to be with the Bulls and i believe that before his career is said and done he will have a couple of titles with this team! What i’m wandering is; besides Noah who’s gonna be that other superstar that helps take this team to the top?
"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta
by The Red Menace on Jan 13, 2010 12:10 AM CST up reply actions
We should get that answer in the off-season.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
that's what I mean
we’re all waiting for the offseason. What’s to do now?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 13, 2010 10:10 AM CST up reply actions
Maybe we get to see a midseason trade...?
Before the season began I wrote a about wanting to see management getting involved in trading rumours just to believe Pax was going to work (got some angry replies on that one). Well, again I want to know that they are at least trying to dump Hinrich huge contract and do something about Salmons and TT situation.
by JustAnotherFan on Jan 13, 2010 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
We don't have that Star yet. TBD
None of the current roster is going to help Noah and Derrick put this team over the top. The Bulls need to sign a big FA like the Lakers did with Pau or the Celtics with KG.
A franchise needs to get lucky. Tyrus at 2 was an attempt to get that special guy.
Nope, if we can trade Deng for a SG scorer to pair with Rose (Kevin Martin)
Then sign a scoring PF in the off-season (Bosh, STAT or Boozer) and trade for a Shane Battier type player, we will be title contenders and should got to the ECF for the next 5 to 7 years and then some.
Homecoming
i feel like this has been derricks real rookie year. last year he was on a mediocre team
with middling expectations; he was allowed to drift around most of the time, exploding occasionally, while letting his better, more consistent teammates carry him the majority of the time. he never failed enough to get a proper sense of how or why to adapt his game, of what he needs to do better, of how important it is for this teams chances of winning that he be awesome all the time. last year was delightful; this year, not so much. but i feel now that some progress is being made in his career. ideally he would be on a great team with a great coach, but if hes going to have Coach Vomit then i would rather he be put in situations where he must learn or suffer, rather than rely on his teammates to a so-so end like last year. i watch for this alone.
…and lindsay of course.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
Die already,
I’d like to post an awesome hummus recipe if Bulls’ basketball is pointless to you all, maybe we can get some knitting patterns posted…..jeeze.
There are some god awful teams with horrible owners in the NBA and the Chicago’s Bulls sadly isn’t one of them. It’s not that bad guys.
BB is entertainment and the Bulls can be frustrating but watching the team play and get better is interesting to me. I love the WGN games and fighting for a lower tier spot, 5th is 2 games away is not that boring a thing to follow.
strange that all this fun-time basketball never provides you anything to say about the team
and instead you just post about the posts.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 13, 2010 10:19 AM CST up reply actions
WTF?
Okay, I like it when the ball go into the hoop-thingy.
Why on a post about the Chicago Bulls must you ALWAYS bring up teams in wose situations.
“Celebrate folks! We’re not the Golden State Warriors!!!”
You’re the Neil Funk of blogs.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 13, 2010 10:27 AM CST up reply actions
Out of context whinning
There are many franchises that suck and the Bulls franchise and owner just are not part of that suck.
Chicago has a better franchise that the Clippers, Sacramento, Seattle (no team anymore Portland and GSW.
In the Central Div the Cavs have and waste LeBron James. What a god aweful waste of talent. The Pistons have had a great run but no more. They are done for. Bucks and Pacers are jokes.
Is it that bad ? No guys it isn’t. Just look around.
Don't agree
You just encourage it. He has posted that same crap about 25 times already and the response is usually that we are a big market and should not be comparing ourselves to Sacramento, GSW, etc. He just doesn’t seem to see it that way.
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
Noe, Could you explain what you mean when you say:
“but watching the team play and get better is interesting to me” – cause I think this really is the source of all our frustration: this team just don’t seem to get any better
by JustAnotherFan on Jan 13, 2010 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
I want us to win no matter who takes the court or is on the sidelines.
I think winning helps us in everyway imaginable. If we are looking to trade our assests their values increase when the team wins. If we want to attract a 2010 FA, then having a team they believe they can push to the top is very important.
Rose and Noah then Maybe Deng are our best bets at getting a star player. Other than Miami If I were in the NBA I would not want to play anywhere else. Who wants to play in Minny? or New Jersey? I really think Lebron will stay in Ohio unless he can go to NYC with another star player.
Even then if im Bosh Wade and South Beach looks a lot better. Bron is not going anywhere to suck. I think the Cavs will resign Bron then sign Joe Johnson or Boozer and made a in-season trade to make them championship competitors. Bosh will sign with Wade in Miami along with a Vet for the MLE at the SF spot or they will trade Beasly for a C or SF.
That leaves us with STAT, Boozer or Joe Johnson. I think the Bulls should target STAT and try to pry K-Mart from the Kings. With all that being said, I watch the games for D Rose and Noah. I also hope that one day that Tyrus wakes up and becomes a beast.
Homecoming
Yes, we need wins
Since this isn’t going to be the roster long-term, I’m not as concerned about player development (except for Rose and Noah). Getting to the playoffs is very important (even if we are headed to a first round loss). I have to think that FAs would rather go to a playoff team. Plus, playoff experience for a young team is never bad.
Also, we need to get the players used to winning if only to avoid the culture of losing that a lot of mediocre-to-poor teams fall into. It’s not like there will be complete turnover on the roster, so we want to be left with guys who expect to win every time they hit the floor (see, e.g., Noah). It doesn’t look like anyone on the team has a defeatist mentality, so that’s a good sign going forward.
dude chisel, when are you going to update benchduhon.com
Out coaching VDN, so easy a cave man could do it.
If we make the right moves in the next year or two, we can be finals contender. Rose and Noah are great young pieces at two premium positions. I can live with Deng as our long term SF…as a third option. We need an offensive PF and a SG that can consistently hit 3s.
Going for Bosh or Amare at PF and Martin or Wade for the SG position.
The Celts will fall off….KG will last a couple more years but his knees are starting to go. Allen is almost done being a starter..he can be useful but he will be more of a 25 minute player soon…Pierce is having big time knee troubles. They are set at PG and C like we are but they don’t have any wing prospects
The Cavs have LeBron and an aging frontline except for Varejao and not much else.
If the Hawks lose JJ, they will fall off, he is the stability of that team…him and Bibby who is playing on borrowed time.
No one else in the East concerns me. So now is the time to be bold and make a move to get us in position to really contend and not just shoot for 7th-8th seed and 1st round exit
Because they want to win, unlike this guy who just wants to make money and win at baseball
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Jan 16, 2010 10:40 AM CST up reply actions
The opposite of thrust - inertia
I rarely watch the games. I didn’t get league pass this year, and when a game is on down here in Indy, I usually only half watch. Things I watch for:
- Does Kirk look like he can maintain the competence he’s showed as the starting SG. While I think he’s horribly misused, I think he’s better than Salmons.
- Does James Johnson look like he’s developing a clue? Will he have more points or more fouls?
- Will Tyrus ever come out with his head on straight, have a ridiculous game, and instantly inspire confidence in himself and his teammates.
- Will anyone get hurt in this placeholder of a season.
Beyond watching the games:
- I want to see what this team really wants to do. I’ll be terribly disappointed if we spend maximum money on Joe Johnson. There are so many other options out there that could get us to the same place while preserving more “flexibility”.
- I want to see how this team closes the deal on getting max cap space. I think they’ve pretty much committed to it (otherwise letting Gordon walk was a fit of pique and insanity). But Salmons hangs over them like the Sword of Damocles. I’d almost guarantee they make some sort of move to ensure they get max space. I’ll be interested to see what that is.
- Balancing against the need to make that trade to lose salary, I suspect Bulls management and ownership seriously expects the playoffs, and failing to obtain those additional revenues will be met with serious disapproval. But the easiest way to ensure the playoffs is to take on more salary for next year. Which they can’t do without screwing the 2010 plan.
by Sports2 on Jan 13, 2010 8:36 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
One thing Vinny should do is utilise all of his players
Some NBA teams have guys that are supremely bad and should never see the court…….ever. I don’t believe we have any active players who are so bad they shouldn’t play. Pargo has had a game or two where he has helped us to get a victory. Pargo should come in once a game as a SG, running off screens jacking up jumpers and if he’s hot, feed off of him, if he’s missing put him on the bench. The White Panther also. Put him in for 5 minutes each game, maybe not all at once but at least 5 minutes of play isn’t gonna hurt our team. Another thing about the Panther, they need to put him on a diet and he should be fined if he doesn’t lose so many pounds by the end of each week. It’s ridiculous that he’s a professional athlete with a major market pro team and they can’t help him not be fat! Lindsey Hunter should also get a little bit of run too. We use Kirt as a starting SG, then turn around and use him as a back up PG, in those brief spells when Vinny is looking to rest Kerk before his stint with the second unit, just let Hunter run a few plays, he’s still got some game, he still plays defense, it’s no reason for these guys to just not play at all. Anyways, I think these few minutes add up and can only help the guys down the road. Just my opinion.
"We can settle this like you got some class, or we can get into some gangsta sh..."
Goldie from "The Mack"
I have many problems with Vinny
not playing Pargo/Hunter/Gray is NOT one of those complaints. They’re trash.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 13, 2010 10:12 AM CST up reply actions
They're worse than trash
at least with trash it gets taken out and disposed of once a week, while our sits there night after night, rotting on the bench and stinking up the joint.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Jan 13, 2010 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
I know you don't like Gray...
But that white whale has got some post moves! ;)
Did you miss his spins-moves to the baseline in the last few games?? (Ok, so he missed the lay-up! Big whoop!)
I wish he
had enough lift to finish those moves at the rim
by QUINTEN DALEY on Jan 13, 2010 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think these guys are all that bad
If you use them wisely. Telling Jannero Pargo to run your offense is obviously a horrible idea, but to have him come in to see if he can get buckets is a concept. Having Hunter set up the offense and play solid defense isn’t like asking him to be B.G for us. And having the Panther attempt to take up space in the paint defensively, try to get a rebound or two, and try to make one or two shots with his patented “Vanilla twist” spin move are reasonable requests IMO. I think any production is positive production, instead of just leaving these guys on the pine being male cheerleaders. Taj has now having feet problems and Deng has a broken phalange. It can’t hurt to give these guys a few minutes to see if they can give us something.
"We can settle this like you got some class, or we can get into some gangsta sh..."
Goldie from "The Mack"
yup
he is fine for getting no more than 3-5 minutes a game, ONLY to give Noah/Miller a breather.
don't let the bed bugs bite
by Rex Grossman on Jan 13, 2010 1:29 PM CST up reply actions
I wish Gray was nasty.
Then the Bulls could put him in for a couple of minutes against the celtics, have him clothesline the Keebler Elf, and get ejected with a Flagrant II.
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Jan 16, 2010 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
It's 2010...and even the Memphis Grizzlies have had a better season than the Bulls.
by KentuckyBullsFan on Jan 13, 2010 11:12 AM CST reply actions
Maybe we should have signed Iverson
just to get rid of him. That seems to be a formula for success in the NBA.
12/31/08: Fire Vinny Del Negro.(upd: 1/7/10)
by NBA Observer on Jan 13, 2010 11:47 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Not working out so well for the Pistons,
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
2 out of 3 ain't bad
Look how Denver and Memphis are doing.
The Grizz are kinda stacked...
I was just thinking that watching the highlights on Sports Center…Gay, Mayo, Gasol and Randolph are capable of dropping 20 any given night…they would be a top 5 team in the East…
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
rose, deng, salmons, and thomas
are also all “capable of dropping 20 any given night”.
it’s the coach. it’s the “coach”.
"Let's do some living... after we die"
even though the coach sucks, you can't even compare the Bulls' 4 with the Grizzlies' 4.
just last night, Randolph, Gay, and Gasol all scored 20+ and Mayo added 15. just about every night, it’s a lock that at least 2 of them will go for 20 and the other 2 are usually close.
as for the Bulls, i’m not so sure Salmons and Thomas are even “capable” of dropping 20 anymore. Thomas has hit 20 points just once this season and Salmons just 7 times.
it’s really not even an argument
by Daniel Satan on Jan 13, 2010 4:35 PM CST up reply actions
correction, salmons only has 5 20-point games this year.
so that’s 6 combined 20-point games for Tyrus/Salmons. to compare, even Gasol, the lowest scoring average of those 4 guys, has 8 all on his own.
by Daniel Satan on Jan 13, 2010 4:39 PM CST up reply actions
It is about future for me and it is full of opportunities and obstacles...
1) I think adding we need a good PF, we need a good SG. At least one starter must be a star – you know the kind who can drop 40 point when the rest of the team is sucking.
There are lots of ways of doing this and the main goal in this tradeline and the next summer is: don’t screw up, Pax & Co!
I like Rose, Noah, and like our BullsBlogger I’m in with Deng. Getting Wade would be great, but I would be satisfied with Joe Johnson if we could get a respectable PF. (I still believe in TT, but it is gonna take more time and I don’t know if we would be able to afford it). A line of Rose/J. Johnson/Deng/let’s say David Lee/Noah looks better to me than the current Atlanta Hawks team.
2) So there is the cap problem. We obviously lost the timing in dumping Hinrich contract. But we must keep trying trade him for any piece of crap. I’m trying to give Salmons a break but we can’t risk it – he must go.
Personally I would trade for McGrady if we can dump anything, specially Hinrich.
3) Then there is the do not despair factor. Let’s say we get nothing comes free agency time: No Wade, no Bosh, no LeBron, no Joe Johnson… Don’t dispair!! The worse thing this team could do is to get. Is give a huge contract to a mediocre player. Wait another year if we must. It better than being stuck for 5 more. Do small changes like sending Hinrich for Hamilton so we have real SG and the Pistons a real PG – but don’t sign average guys for more than a single season.
4) Del Negro…. really, the guy must go… It’s no good having young players and nobody who can teach them properly… VDN must leave…
by JustAnotherFan on Jan 13, 2010 11:14 AM CST reply actions
Why do I watch? Simple question, complicated answer.
First, because I can’t help it. I blame a childhood playing basketball Chicago, which left me with misshapen fingers and a strange desire to watch Chicago ballers kick the ass of other, non-Chicago ballers. And because now, crazily, we have the opportunity to watch a guy with the potential to be the best Chicagoan yet. Including Dewayne. It’s become fashionable to rip on Derrick this year, due to a poor start, and there were times, early on, that he looked positively awful. But he has done nothing but get better. His vision is improving, the arc on his jumper is improving, and he’s started to draw fouls. And that’s reason number two: Derrick Rose. Not the player he’ll be, but the player he’s been since he’s healed. Numbers in December: 20 and 6. Numbers in January: 21 and 8. Yeah, he might very well be a superstar down the road; then again, he might also blow out his knee. I watch because he’s a exciting right now . Some of the moves – they’re the kind of thing you’d dream up as a kid.
Reason three is that this team, as constructed, has potential. Contender? No. But Noah is playing well, and I actually like the tandem of Tyrus and Taj (off the bench) at the power forward. If Salmons and Hinrich continue to not egregiously suck, we have a solid guard corps. Deng and Noah are both having very good years. In other words, I think this team is deeper and better than Miami. A five seed is possible. Could we beat Atlanta in the first round?
Actually, yeah.
I’ve never understood the line of thinking that, if your team isn’t a contender, the season is a waste. Worse yet, to my way of thinking, is watching for something that might or might not happen in 2010, which renders what happens irrelevant. If basketball is leisure for me, why in the name of God would I adopt an attitude that makes it less pleasurable?
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jan 13, 2010 11:43 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
it's not that they aren't a contender
is that most of these guys are gone next year. I don’t mind the building stage, but this is the tear-down stage. We’re not that much different from the Knicks and Nets and other 2010 players in that sense.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 13, 2010 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
YFBB how reliable do you think Doug Thonus is, and what do you think of the scouts supposedly hating TT?
TT was in the top ten in the league in blocks, he led his team in steals, he’s 23 years old and he grew another inch over the summer. Raw yes, be hating him sounds a little far fetched to me.
"We can settle this like you got some class, or we can get into some gangsta sh..."
Goldie from "The Mack"
link?
Does Doug say scouts hate him?
I don’t know what happened to Doug’s reporter hat. In the summer he was using it quite a bit, but I haven’t heard a peep lately
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 14, 2010 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
YFBB from the update you have above on the Doug's article he wrote a comment
I don’t have a huge array of sources throughout the league, but I have talked to a handful of scouts, and they universally hate Tyrus.
Posted on January 14, 2010 10:46 AM
"We can settle this like you got some class, or we can get into some gangsta sh..."
Goldie from "The Mack"
The good and bad
I really like the attraction that our roster of Rose-Deng-Noah bring to FA acquisition. I think you’re sending a solid message that you have 3 players that will contribute on both ends, are already productive, and can only get better offensively with new weapons at the SG and PF.
I really dislike the attraction our management brings to the table. The club has all the profits to pay top dollar, but they had this previously in the Summer of 2000. The roster is better today than it was then. Now we have Gar basically lying one way or the other about the coaching situation, openly lying about trying to resign Gordon, and jerking around the actual young talent on the team with a poor player draft strategy. The micromoves Gar could have made in the’09 draft could have built a solid bench where Tyrus comes off the bench next season to play a major frontcourt role. We desperately needed to draft a guard if we knew Gordon wasn’t even going to get an offer. There were good options out there that fell all the way to the 2nd round(cough Budinger) that would be contributing now.
My FA targets are ranked Wade, Bosh, Amare, Boozer, Joe Johnson and Mike Miller.
My trade acquisitions are ranked Danny Granger, Kevin Martin, Al Jefferson, Eric Gordon and Rudy Fernandez.
I think James Johnson could be really good with the right coaching. He doesn’t really know how to be effective right now. He’s unsure of which shots to take and which shots to pass up. He doesn’t yet realize how teams effectively defend his against his penetration, but he will eventually learn about what angles to take in the paint to avoid the charges.
12/31/08: Fire Vinny Del Negro.(upd: 1/7/10)
Question...
Conspicuous by his absence…would you consider Lebron a free agent target if he wanted to play in Chicago?
Thomas, Miller, Salmons, James, Pargo, Gray, MLE, and (there is no LLE thanks to the Pargo signing) will not be here with a Max Free Agent...don't get too attached.
No
I don’t want any part of Lebron James other than to compete against him.
12/31/08: Fire Vinny Del Negro.(upd: 1/7/10)
by NBA Observer on Jan 13, 2010 1:49 PM CST up reply actions
I'll give you credit for not claiming to be rational.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 13, 2010 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
I second this.
This reminds me of the Kobe rumors from a couple seasons ago. I was never a Kobe fan before but when the Kobe-to-Chicago-for-Deng rumors surfaced, I have to admit that I was ready to embrace him. He would have been MJ24 instead of MJ23.
Smart people learn from their mistakes. Smarter people learn from the mistakes of others. - Raymond Stone
by RaymondStone.com on Jan 13, 2010 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
Indeed, I don't like LeBron either, but I hate watching losing teams more.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 13, 2010 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly.
Cleveland, for the most part, isn’t enamored with the off-the-court version of Lebron, but when he’s on the court they treat him like a G-d. I remember driving back from Cleveland and hearing their main radio guy rip on him. We’ll learn to get by if we get ’Bron.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
Lebron James
doesn’t even pass the competitive test. A little class goes a long way.
If you had asked me if I wanted Lebron James after he torched the Pistons in game 5 of the 2007 NBA EC Semi Finals I would say ‘’definitely’. However, after that game he has completely changed as a competitor.
Today I look forward to his defeats. He’s Isiah Thomas to me.
12/31/08: Fire Vinny Del Negro.(upd: 1/7/10)
by NBA Observer on Jan 13, 2010 2:50 PM CST up reply actions
My only fear about
LeBron is how bad does he want to be a champion, or how focused is on being the 1st billion dollar athlete and a mutli-media super giant
by QUINTEN DALEY on Jan 13, 2010 2:54 PM CST up reply actions
Isn't Tiger Woods the first billion dollar athlete?
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
I look forward to his defeats too
But I’d still take him!
Fan of the Chicago Cash Cows formerly known as the Bulls
I do not deny
that Lebron James is an out of this world basketball talent. He is.
12/31/08: Fire Vinny Del Negro.(upd: 1/7/10)
by NBA Observer on Jan 13, 2010 3:23 PM CST up reply actions
I'll hold my nose and cheer for LBJ to do well, if he comes to the Bulls.
I don’t want any part of Lebron James other than to compete against him.
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Jan 16, 2010 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
I love the Bulls and basketball season
I am a Bulls fan. I went crazy at the UC when BG hit the tying 3 against Boston with 4.5 second to go. He is gone and I root for the Bulls, not BG. It is hard to explain why I enjoy them so much. I hate the losing, but this team has provided some of my favorite moments with the six championships and I will never forget that. I assume I will never see a chanpionship again in my lifetime but the struggle to try to get there really interests me. I enjoy trade talk at BaB and the provocative comments. Despite the view that “we are not the worst franchise” is a terrible agument that is how I feel. Paxson has taken us from the depths of despair to mediocrity with a young core and cap space. I must have low standards but for now this works for me. Except for the Wallace signing I think Paxson has done a good job. Knowing I’m being repetitive being a GM in this league is extremely hard. Paxson gets bashed here often but this isn’t different than what happens as I troll other SBNation sites. Pritchard, Dumars. Grunfeld, Ainge have whiplash from being geniuses to jerks so quickly or vice-versa. The Bulls are part of Chicago, and high-fiving people near you after a win you would never otherwise meet is special. I live and die by this team.
I watch the games different ways. When I think we are blowing a lead I watch via the internet because it is too painful to listen to Funk/King tell me how they should win easily against a team that has a record similar to ours. I tape the games to watch if we do win. I like to go with family multiple times a year usually to games that are critical to making the playoffs. I think making the playoffs is important to how the team is viewed and how the players view the team. I plead guilty to loving this team for the good and through the bad.
I FLY the
Bulls banner high at my house too.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Jan 13, 2010 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
I watch to see the team and players COMPETE
I watch to see Rose to take it to the guy guarding him
I watch to see Noah fight on every possession
I watch to be shocked when Kirk makes a shot
I watch to see TT D-up on Lebron and kick his ass
I watch to see the 3OT game against the Heat, an amazing game
I watch for amazing moments like the Boston series
But most importantly, I watch to see the Rise of Taj.
by Trey23 on Jan 13, 2010 12:52 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Simmons says Bosh and Lebron have a pact to go to the same team
Possibly the Bulls or Knicks
Obviously the current cap situation prevents this but wouldn’t this look awesome
I'm going to say something silly
But it’s something I’ve honestly thought about. Why not Lebron to the Bulls? Seriously. What does NY have that we can’t offer? If the media spotlight was good enough for Jordan and Pippen and Rodman, why not here? Rose and Noah are better pieces then what NY has to offer. I guess I really don’t get the whole NY basketball Mecca thing. For the most part that organization has sucked and haven’t brought home a banner since the 70s. Hell the Bucks got just as much or a rich history as the Knicks.
If Cleveland gets bounced in the playoffs, poor shooting from Mo Williams, West etc.
And Nothing in the middle, Hickson, Z, Shaq
He may want to play with a better team.
The only thing about NY basketball historic
is the Rucket tournament and Madison Square Garden(which has held numors historic events, but not a lot of historic basketball, unless you count Jordan’s 55 wearing #45, and the facial of Ewing)
by QUINTEN DALEY on Jan 13, 2010 2:47 PM CST up reply actions
New York is an actual basketball town
Not that he wouldn’t make it that way here too, and I doubt he cares either way. But that’s what’s to ‘get’ about the NY basketball thing.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 13, 2010 3:03 PM CST up reply actions
Considering the Bulls led the league in attendance
in some of the worst years in it’s history, I wouldn’t undervalue Bulls love in this town despite what some in the media might say.
New York has it positives and negatives
New York is a great basketball city. However, there are some drawbacks.
1- Madison Square Garden – I don’t think this is the world’s greatest arena. The sight-lines are terrible. The common areas cramped. The building is old. I would consider the building among the worst in the NBA
2- The practice facility is in Westchester a good 1 1/2 ours from the Garden
3- If you live near the practice facility the commute to the games is horrific. It does not compare to the commute from the Berto Center to the UC
The draw for me would be New York is arguably the greatest city in the world. That said not every one is comfortable with the pace and the energy level there.
The Garden sucks? I've never been, but that is pretty contradictory to popular opinion.
And the UC is nothing to brag about, it’s over 15 years old as well.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 13, 2010 6:12 PM CST up reply actions
The Garden doesn't suck
But like most things in New York, it doesn’t live up to the hype.
And Chicago is as much of a basketball town as New York, imo.
by drew gooden's facial growth on Jan 13, 2010 7:45 PM CST up reply actions
NYC Media are harsh.
NYC would turn on LeBron James whereas in Cleveland he’s a god.
i cannot imagine
NYC would turn on LeBron James
lbj and nba wouldn’t give them any ammunition. knicks have never had such a player.
agree with anyone saying that nyc is a greater basketball town is a media myth. it’s also a great(er) hockey town, a great(er) baseball town, and a great(er) football town. see, it’s true if you choose to believe it.
that it “is arguably the greatest city in the world” is also mythologized. actually, it’s media and residents would say – inarguably. that’s one i personally do believe though.
"Let's do some living... after we die"
LeBron, COME TO CHICAGO! YOUR COMMUTE WILL BE HALF AS LONG!
…sounds like shades of 2000 for Chicago. Is Benny the Bull gonna meet him at the airport?
/OMG…“LeBron James signs with the Indiana Pacers, citing a need to avoid traffic.”
/…or he’ll go to NY and buy a helicopter or plane and parachute into work everyday like a superhero.
by KentuckyBullsFan on Jan 13, 2010 9:08 PM CST up reply actions
i'm also assuming that NY will pay the tax no matter how high since having
LeBron and probably Bosh would generate a ridiculous amount of excitement and $$$REVENUE$$$ in NYC.
Also since NY hasn’t done anything too historic in basketball would be MORE appealing to LeBron, since Jordan left an almost impossible legacy to live up to in Chicago.
by KentuckyBullsFan on Jan 13, 2010 9:15 PM CST up reply actions
I doubt the players care about
common areas and sight lines
We just need to execute better - Lovie Del Negro
i think people are the NBA are slowly starting to realize that New York is far from being the front-runner in the Lebron sweepstakes.
I listened to Simmons discuss this stuff on his podcast the other day, and he was saying that New York desperately needs to unload the Curry and Jeffries contracts in order to be able to surround Lebron with any kind of competitive talent. Lee, Robinson, and basically any other bonafide NBA player will be gone to make room for LBJ, so it’s very possible it’d be Lebron, Galinari and Chandler as the “nucleus” of the new york knicks.
i can’t wait for NY to suck for the next decade
by Daniel Satan on Jan 13, 2010 4:23 PM CST up reply actions
They have to get rid of every player but Rose, Noah and maybe Gibson, Johnson and maybe the draft pick.
And that team would be horrible. But that’s possible.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Rose Noah, Bosh and Lebron would be horrible?
I don’t think so.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 13, 2010 1:50 PM CST up reply actions
Seriously?
Who cares who’s on the Bench.
He said they would be horrible. SO Pat Riley’s plan to get Bosh and Wade on the team would also be horrible?
for serious
Tyger meant the team with all the guys gone before getting LeBron+Bosh would be terrible.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 13, 2010 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
Not necessarily.
My comment didn’t mention directly James or Bosh. “That team” refers directly to the previous sentence.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
This has got to be the 2nd time I agree with you, ever...
But I see Rose, Noah and Gibson as the only players that should be kept around, too
Of course.
But the only way you’re getting rid of Deng, Hinrich or Salmons is by trading them to contending teams already over the cap. Of course, those teams won’t want to get worse. So likely, you’ll only get back worse veterans with expiring contracts or young guys that are very underappreciated by their organization like Anthony Randolph or Tyrus Thomas.
But yeah, a smart, creative GM could definitely still be good. The Knicks are with worse players, have more cap space this summer and are how much worse than the Bulls?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
The one who's out
for several months, and maybe the season, with an ankle injury?
After looking at it, I think it's easier than you think
First, you really would only have to move Deng and Hinrich. They open up $19M, which would probably allow us to make two max offers even if Salmons opts in.
The real key would be what you can get for Deng. Maybe I’m wrong, but I have to think you could turn Deng into Boozer. Boozer’s actually a better player, and on an expiring contract. But everyone knows he’s a short-term rental in Utah. They’re willing to cash him in, but not just for cap relief. They clearly want a younger player with a future there, and Deng would obviously fit that bill.
- We’ve still got Hinrich to trade, but I tend to think he could be traded for ok expirings. The Blake+Outlaw deal would still seem to be out there.
- Tyrus would still be available to make a filler trade if we really need to.
If we could get anything close to ok depth and a stopgap two guard, we’d certainly make the playoffs. Maybe Tyrus, Jerome James, and Miller for TMac?
So if we can pull off that deal, we’d be looking at
1- Rose, Blake
2- TMac
3- Salmons, Outlaw (in March, when he’s healthy), JJ
4- Boozer, Taj
5- Noah, Cook
OK, that team definitely looks playoff bound to me, and at least to me the trades seem very feasible.
by Sports2 on Jan 13, 2010 3:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
We'd had to start over with a whole new offense
;)
12/31/08: Fire Vinny Del Negro.(upd: 1/7/10)
by NBA Observer on Jan 13, 2010 3:24 PM CST up reply actions
Wow, there's like one capable defender of that whole group.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Probably not.
But it’s possible. Is TMac a better version of Salmons in that he couldn’t get by a SG if you gave him a 1-step advantage? Would Salmons revert to his old form after going against SF? Does that team keep anyone outside of the lane?
In essence, I see the defense getting significantly worse and the offense only getting marginally better. You’re counting on McGrady being close to his last effective season of an 18.4 PER and playing good defense and John Salmons getting better. And Outlaw coming back at full speed. A big downgrade at SF, a huge upgrade at starting PF but big downgrade at reserve PF, disastrous downgrades at reserve SG and reserve SF, and who the hell knows at SG.
I could definitely see that team being worse than what they have now and probably isn’t any better.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Outlaw isn't a disasterous downgrade from anything
I don’t see why he won’t return to form for the playoff run when he’s healthy in March. So we get him for, say, the final month of the season.
Realistically, he could start and Salmons would still be the primary SG reserve.
You’ve been way overselling Deng’s merits lately. He might not deserve to be blasted for things that are out of control, but he’s not playing anything close to his 06-07 form, he’s injury prone and not a massive upgrade over lots of guys. He’s a slightly above average SF, and he’s young, so that means he’s a piece you shouldn’t just give away for nothing, but got serious flaws that, contract considered, will make it hard to build a contender with him. He’s not good enough that I wouldn’t move him for Boozer and a chance to really re-shuffle this deck.
as usual
you don’t value defense much, thus you undervalue deng. if boozer is so good, why isn’t utah better? compare their talent, look at the coach, where they play for chrissakes!
boozer is a loser, a two-face, a back stabber. and he’s “injured” more than deng, who plays with injury (unfortunately sometimes).
and i’m not touting deng. in fact, i’m not at all against trading him. i’m against boozer.
"Let's do some living... after we die"
I actually value defense quite a lot
I think defense is largely (not entirely, of course) a matter of team defense. If you have a very good defensive big man who knows how to play, you will have a good defense even if the other players are marginally competent.
Noah is the cornerstone of this defense. He’s a great defender. Hinrich is an above average defender, I think, and Deng and Salmons are basically average. Everyone else is below average. The system works, however, because of Noah. As long as he’s great, you can have a decent defense if you have guys that will at least fit the basic profile for their position. Boozer, Travis Outlaw, TMac, McGrady, etc would be fine in that context, especially given what they bring on offense.
I completely agree that Boozer is a douche. You’ll note I’m not suggesting we ought to re-sign him for forever. I’m looking at what he’d bring over 30 games or so, and then what he’d bring by being gone.
He’s not a great player, he’s a good player that’s a great contractual fit. Deng, if we are talking in the context of “can we get two max FAs” is a good player, but not as good on the court as Boozer, and much worse contractually. But I agree, he’s a much better person than Boozer in terms of his professional dealings. However, that latter fact is pretty much irrelevant to me.
Utah is better. Than us, for sure. They’ve got a better record while playing in a more difficult conference. They’re more talented than us, but they also have a fair amount of time getting all that talent on the floor at once.
"being injury prone" doesn't negate the production he's given so far.
In our discussion of the upgrade that Salmons would be from this point forward over what Deng has provided so far this season, it’s a completely irrelevant point to bring up. As well, your point about moving him. I didn’t say I didn’t advocate your plan. I’m all for it; if they’re going to rebuild, do it right. I just question whether that team would get to the playoffs… And even at that, I simply said it’s probably not any better than this current team which is a borderline playoff team. It could definitely be better, which would make it a shoo-in for the playoffs.
Outlaw isn’t a disastrous downgrade from anything
Rebuttal: No, if he were healthy right now, he wouldn’t be, you’re right. But if they made those trades now, they go a month and a half without a backup SF that is… James Johnson, which is a disastrous downgrade from John Salmons, no matter how the latter’s been playing. And I do question the wisdom of putting Outlaw at SG, but whatever.
Boozer starting + Outlaw + Gibson in reserve is a big upgrade over Gibson starting + Thomas
Is Salmons + Outlaw greater than Deng + Salmons
Is McGrady + Salmons greater than Hinrich + Salmons? I have no idea how good McGrady can be.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
But it's not irrelevant from this point forward
Deng is playing with a broken thumb that, if it gets hit, could put him out for a month or two. From what that article said last week, he was advised to sit out, and his production has been declining.
So I think from this point forward, it’s certainly fair to mention that we’re comparing the production of a healthy Salmons who’d be playing his more natural role to an unhealthy Deng who may be on borrowed time.
Regarding Outlaw, I wouldn’t put him at SG. And my thinking was this sort of deal gets done at the deadline, so we’re talking about a half month to month of greater need for JJ.
Randomly, I think if we did all those trades as I laid out (getting back TMac), then in case of an injured wing, you play Blake more and shift Rose over.
So something like
1- Rose 36, Blake 12
2- TMac 32, Salmons 16
3- Salmons 16, Outlaw 32
Like, if Outlaw can’t go, you play something like
1- Rose 24, Blake 24
2- TMac 34, Rose 14
3- Salmons 36, JJ 12
If TMac falls apart or totally blows and Outlaw can’t play, both, then yeah, you’re in trouble.
But we’re also in trouble now if Deng’s thumb falls off.
The good thing all around is it looks like a team can still make the playoffs this year while being pretty terrible.
If we're waiting another month to make that trade....
… then you have the subpar Deng who is an injury waiting to happen which puts the team in a deeper hole and less time to climb out of it.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Oh, and it's not a deal-breaker, but I definitely try to keep Thomas around.
Not for my own personal benefit, but he’s the best chance at a decent insurance policy if no MAX free agents come over. Or if you ship Deng and Hinrich out, and you only get Bosh, say… you can at least think about bringing Thomas back at the 3. It at least gives you some flexibility and a better team right now.
But no, it’s not a deal-breaker.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I'd tend to agree
But my guess is the Bulls want “make the playoffs” insurance not “long-term security” insurance.
Plus, if you’re only playing Tyrus spot minutes down the stretch, you’re going to have him even more pissed off than I’m sure he already is, and I doubt he’s staying. Just like Gordon last year, only magnified.
I think the more likely fall back play would be to use the cap space to trade for a player already under contract.
I mean, I don’t disagree, but I could see the Bulls trading off Tyrus for mediocre depth (say Josh Boone and Jarvis Hayes) or JJ Reddick, before I could see them bringing him back.
Wonder if Tyrus + 2010 Pick + Hinrich would also pry away Rudy Gay from the Blazers? I tend to doubt it, but that could kill two birds with one stone, and we might forego the TMac trade entirely if we did that. I couldn’t make it work salary wise though. :\
How’s about this:
Bulls trade: Kurt, Tyrus, Pick to Blazers
Bulls get: Blake, Outlaw, Rudy, Steven Hunter
Blazers trade Miller to the Grizz who sent Steven Hunter to us
1- Rose, Blake
2- Rudy
3-Salmons, Outlaw, JJ
4- Boozer, Taj
5- Noah, Miller
I’d prefer Rudy to TMac in the long run.
Where's Deng?
Rose + Rudy + Deng + ____ + Noah minus the contracts of Hinrich, Thomas, Boozer, etc. = enough cap space for Bosh = totally awesome.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
They'd go through a laundry list of options before resigning Thomas
the Org. does not like him, and they won’t pay him. They’d trade him if he had any value.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 14, 2010 10:12 AM CST up reply actions
S2
What about a Deng + Heimlich deal as part of a sign & trade for one of the big FAs plus a throw away contract in the off-season.
Think about it. Deng’s still a young guy, although it appears he’s reached his ceiling. Throw in a draft pick one of those teams losing a max guy by his choice has to like what’s being proposed.
This does hinge on that player wanting out of town, and wanting badly to be joined with Rose, Noah, another big FA and the new Bulls coach.
I haven’t looked into the math as closely as I should, but I think this would have to happen: Tyrus would still have to be renounced. Salmons? Haven’t gotten there yet. Another max FA would be able to be signed outright (Bulls would hover around 35mil with roster charges?) prior to the sign & trade for another using Deng and Heimlich. The Bulls would then probably have a chance to fill out their roster w/o exceeding the tax immediately. (I’m using 52 mil and 62 mil as my cap and lux threshold.)
So if a Bosh & LBJ, or LBJ & Wade, or Wade & Bosh combo did want to end up on the same team together, the Bulls actually have a scenario where that could happen.
i.e. (2010 salaries)
Rose 5.55 mil
Wade 16.65 mil
FISH 5.81 mil
Bosh 16.65 mil
Noah 3.13 mil
Taj 1.12 mil
JJ 1.72 mil
Bad contract 5.5
4 roster spots 2 mil
Total 58.13 mil
Unfortunately, (after spending a little more time going through this)
Before the sign trade portion of this scenario,
Heimlich 9 mil
Deng 12.36 mil
totals 21.36 mil
Bulls cap (minus 1st max signing) 40.69
What it boils down to is we need to move FISH; hopefully w/ Miller and Jerome James or similar combo for T-Mac.
I apologize that my above post is disjointed.
I started, stopped, continued, stopped, and finally got back to it.
My initial thought I shot down on my own.
We can’t let all expiring deals that we currently have expire and get enough space for a max guy. If Salmons opted out, we would.
But that also means letting Tyrus go for nada. I’d have no problem with that if it nets a better player.
My 2nd thought was if 2 max guys wanted to end up on Chicago, then a Deng, Kur, + pick isn’t a bad net return for the other team in comparison to losing that max player for nothing, since the player would likely have at least another option on the table (another team far enough under the cap) to initiate a sign & trade.
In theory it makes sense
the question is whether the particular team wants to take those guys back. If they play hardball, it’s a no-go.
I still think I'd do this just for the chance to get LeBron and Bosh.
Rose/???/LeBron/Bosh/Noah
whatever, that’d be awesome
If all goes wrong - here is Plan B
No relevant trade this season? Now big star wants to play in Chicago comes Free Agency?
I would wait and start for the next big star available: Kevin Durant
by JustAnotherFan on Jan 14, 2010 7:01 AM CST up reply actions
The only thing I truly want to see while watching the Bulls is
Rose’s development, more specifically his ability to control the tempo of the game. I’m still looking for him to be more of a “director” of the offense, but clearly that becomes more difficult when your coach is probably drawing smiley faces on the dry erase board.
I want to see which players are willing to fall in line behind him and look to him for leadership, but this too becomes harder to find instances of due to bad coaching (think of that old saying, “your point guard is the extension of the coach on the court.” I know, i just puked in my mouth, too).
Anyways, what it all boils down to is there really isn’t that much to watch. Rose, Noah, Deng and Gibson are the only 4 players on the entire roster that I’m confident will even be here a year from now, so there’s not much to even invest in as a fan.
Attack!
Be aggressive!
THRUST!!!
when your coach is probably drawing smiley faces on the dry erase board.
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Jan 16, 2010 4:51 PM CST up reply actions
I watch the Bulls because I still enjoy it.
Why that is, I really couldn’t tell you – but I do get into the games. If I didn’t, I probably would quit watching.
And I’m not really watching for anything specific. I like the guys on the team and always want all of them to do well – even if they aren’t the best fit here or might not be around long. The offseason is long enough to detach from anyone who goes and get on board with whoever comes in.
I’d rather watch a basketball game than just about anything else, and especially a Bulls’ game. Doesn’t mean I’m always satisfied with the outcome, obviously, but that never lasts so long I’m not ready for the next one. I’ve cheered for more than one team that had absolutely no shot at even making the playoffs, so maybe this just isn’t as painful to me as some of you who have been spoiled by the MJ years. (There’s a reason that Bulls fans have a reputation for bitching and moaning, you know.)
Just waiting on some offense....
just to clarify
I didn’t ask WHY one watches. Why is anyone a fan of this shit? probably for irrational reasons. But that’s fandom.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 14, 2010 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
Unless they are treated like crap by The Organization, i.e. Ben Gordon
The offseason is long enough to detach from anyone who goes
We miss you, Ben Gordon!
by Granny Waiters on Jan 16, 2010 4:52 PM CST up reply actions
I watch the bulls
bec being happy(pistons win), dissapointed(3game losing streak, vinny) is what makes being a fan, fun.
if ever they become a contender in the future, I wanna see how they get there. Winning the ship is nice but enjoying the ride makes it much better
I look for TT to play really well
so that he gets somewhere next year.
Haven’t watched any bulls games in … a little bit, though.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
I watch the Bulls because I hate myself.
/not really
by KentuckyBullsFan on Jan 13, 2010 9:11 PM CST reply actions
for me... really
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
by tyger1147 on Jan 14, 2010 8:03 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
OT: Didn't want to make a fan shot
but… Blair went for 28 and 21 tonight against OKC. I still can’t believe the Bulls passed on that guy.
by Basketball Smurf on Jan 13, 2010 10:11 PM CST reply actions
But, as Noe Valley says
We’re not the Clippers, so it’s all good!
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 13, 2010 11:11 PM CST up reply actions
"I'll give you something to cry about"
Clippers, Warriors, Kings, Sonics (r.i.p). Bucks, Pacers, Timberwolves, Hornets, Bobcats, Kincks, … weep if you had to follow one of those franchises.
Awesome Miami, playing GSW on my TV right now, are two games ahead of us. Is their season that much better than ours? is Van Gundy coaching Wade that much a better coach than VDN? Two games up on the Bulls?
No wonder Orlando is getting tired of Stan the Man, he keeps coaching the other team!
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 14, 2010 8:43 AM CST up reply actions
our team hasn't moved or is threating to do so!
you’re right, we should count the blessings.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 14, 2010 10:14 AM CST up reply actions
you never answered my question from your last appearance
do you (YOU, not Steve Kerr or Doc Rivers) think VDN is a good coach?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 14, 2010 10:15 AM CST up reply actions
Is VDN a good coach?
Yes. He does one of two things well.
He has the team playing and competitive most all games.
I get annoyed at some of his decisions like a short rotation, substitutions, and momentum stopping time outs.
incorrect.
he’s not.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 14, 2010 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
though I do agree that he has good traits
such as mostly staying out of the way. He’s too incompetent to screw things up, which a lot of coaches do by ‘coaching’.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 14, 2010 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
"staying out of the way"
IMHO, That’s what makes him a good coach.
He knows his limitations and that his roster, more or less, wants to play for him.
That’s the prime directive, first order principle. Get the guys to play hard and as a team.
The last minute X and Os are 2nd order attributes he lacks at this time.
I'd prefer a prime directive of having fewer limitations to know.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 14, 2010 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
There is a difference between staying out of the way
And directing a team while still giving them the freedom to become a team. While the team does not need an immense amount of set plays or to be told where to be at every single moment, they need direction! They need to know their roles, have spots to fill, and know how to work together in a constructive manner. Oh yeah, and the coach should at least be able to figure out how to get his best player to be more involved in a way that utilizes his strenghts. VDN does this immensely poorly.
The Bulls play as a team? You really don't watch the games at all, do you?
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 14, 2010 5:51 PM CST up reply actions
Yes!
we are at the top of the shit pile!!!
by Basketball Smurf on Jan 14, 2010 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I can't believe you are wondering why the Bulls passed on Blair.
Have you forgotten they got the mighty Taj.
an incompetent coache’s dream.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Jan 13, 2010 11:14 PM CST up reply actions
You're right, thanks to Vinny rewarding him for not being Tyrus.
His rebounding rate is 9.05 per 36 minutes playing near the basket, while Tyrus’s is 9.79 while hanging around the perimeter. But than Tyrus is a veteran and Taj, although 14 months older is a mere rookie.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Jan 13, 2010 11:34 PM CST up reply actions
It's Vinny's fault -- rignt?
So the NBA is laughing at the Bulls’ Taj pick right now… no the NBA is not. Nor is the NBA drooling over Tyrus thinking Vinny’s holding back an all-star.
The NBA is laughing at those small number of hysterical Bulls fans that would trade Taj for Blair given the latter has serious knee issues – no ACLs.
Blair’s ACLs deteriorated to the point of disappearance. Since this was a gradual change, his muscles and other ligaments could have adapted slowly to the added strain. Without such an adjustment period—if his doctors had simply cut out the ligaments, for example—it’s likely he would have injured himself on the court quite rapidly. Blair is now thought to face a higher risk of damaging his knees (especially his meniscus) than athletes with repaired ACLs—and he may end up with osteoarthritis.
yeah, i'm sure this topic is on the lips of NBA watchers everywhere
by Basketball Smurf on Jan 14, 2010 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
maybe NBA Observer.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 14, 2010 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
oh my god, he probably wont be a very effective rebounder when he has osteoarthritis
at age 45. the bulls definitely dodged a bullet there.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
Only if you don't know what you're talking about.
There’s no way Gibson gets that many minutes on the Spurs. Blair is twice the player Gibson is.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Both in production and in actual girth.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 14, 2010 8:42 AM CST up reply actions
Iz Soopid. Can't see why Balir == x2 Taj.
Taj has ACLs. Balir doesn’t so if there’s a doubling factor, it goes to Taj for having ACls and chance at a long NBA career.
As for production per minute, what a awesomely bad stat.
alright, I'm calling it
you’re just a shit-stirrer who doesn’t actually believe what you’re saying.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 14, 2010 10:16 AM CST up reply actions
Nope. I'm a Bulls Fan.
I like the Bulls roster and this year’s picks so I’m a shit-stirrer. Taj does lead all rookies in RBs.
Blair’s knees scared a lot of teams away. How long can he play without ACLs given a 82 game pounding? People knew he could play but for how long?
Would anyone here really swap the two guys given how well Taj has played?
For the Spurs who want to win now and have an all-star PF nearing retirement, Blair’s a good pick at where they got him in the 2nd round.
Blair’s not a good fit for the Bulls.
oh, so you're Sam Smith.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 14, 2010 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
Noe, you are "just short of brilliant."
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 14, 2010 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
Who the hell cares if his career is cut short because he has no ACL's?
We’re talking about using a late first, early second round pick. Most of these guys amount to bench fodder anyway, so if “all” Blair can give you is three-four really solid years as the first big man off of the bench, that’s fucking excellent. We’re not talking about a team like the Bears risking a prime pick on a damaged player like Tommie Harris. This is the Bulls taking a low risk-pretty high reward on a guy like Blair. This argument is making me sick. Nobody expects the 26th pick in the draft to have a long and prosperous career in the NBA, so why are a bunch of people bitching about Blair possibly flaming out in a few years?
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
The Bulls shrink like a dick in cold water.
I can't believe all those other
teams passed on Blair
by QUINTEN DALEY on Jan 14, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
I can't believe it either
I can’t believe Bulls fans are so willing to make excuses for a front office that has consistently mismanaged personnel for 10 years.
by Basketball Smurf on Jan 14, 2010 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
every team in the league
passed on Dejuan Blair….can’t really blame the Bulls alone. Obviously the NBA needs to listen to the President’s scouting reports (I remember him saying Blair would dominate in the NCAA tournament, and be a man among boys..)
the Bulls job is to acquire talent. Blair is a very good talent
I don’t care if every GM in the NBA is dumb as a box of rocks, I don’t want the Bulls GM to be that dumb. Obviously not every GM in the league passed on him, because he is playing in San Antonio. Crazy how a team with a recent tradition of winning and making great late round picks made this pick – must be a total coincidence, huh. They managed to get a very productive rookie with their only pick in the draft.
And not every team needed a bruising big man. Not every team had spent 7 games getting pushed around by Big Baby Davis and Perkins. Not every team has the lightest center in the NBA. Not every team has absolutely no low post scoring. Considering the hole the Bulls have at power forward, and the fact that the Bulls picked 2 PF in the 1st round, it would be nice if one of them could play at a high level.
by Basketball Smurf on Jan 14, 2010 11:03 AM CST up reply actions
Medical report on Blair indicated cartilage problems in both knees.
So NBA teams passed on a player with serious medical issues.
Today Taj leads all rookies in rebounding. Was he that bad a choice?
Who will have the better, longer career?
who cares who has the longer career? That isn't remotely relevant
The Bulls aren’t going to be depending on either guy, and if they are, than they are in far worse shape in the coming years than we know. Taj isn’t a starting power forward in this league on a good team, so I’m not really concerned about the future of an 8th man. Bill Simmons and Chad Ford made a great point in their podcast – if someone is going to be more productive in the first 2 years of their rookie contract than a player whose upside isn’t that great, than isn’t that much better to take the productive player than waiting 3 years and hoping a guy becomes productive? Blair would be more productive now, and the Bulls need help now. 2 or 3 years down the line neither guy is likely to be a starter, so who cares what Taj will be like when he is 28 and playing with Memphis?
And Blair is by far the better rebounder. He wasn’t playing early but since getting into the starting lineup, he has been very solid. Blair destroys Taj in Rebounds per 36. Blair would be getting 30 minutes a game here, but his numbers are depressed because he is playing with a championship contender. Taj replicates many of Tyrus and Noah’s strong points. We have no one like Blair on our team. And of course, we could have had both.
Finally no one knows for sure if Blair knees will give out. Iron man Taj is already dealing with serious foot issues in his 1st year in the league. Over the next 2-3 years I believe Blair will be much more productive than Taj. And for the Bulls, I think that would have been more beneficial than Taj’s ability to play 15 minutes a game 4 years from now.
by Basketball Smurf on Jan 14, 2010 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
Now or later.
Both Blair and Taj are productive now. The Bulls did pick player who would produce in year one. It’s a nonsense criticism of Taj over Blair.
So the question is, “If you want production now then why pick a guy who medically has no ACLs and is a high risk or a career ending knee injury?”
Taj also has the added benefit of durability, he has ACLs. That makes him a possible trade asset in the future. Blair less so.
Yes, there is differing production
Let’s imagine Blair plays for three years and then retires, his knees fall apart, and he’s replaced by another player. Taj plays for 10 years. Yay for Taj. Unfortunately, he’s not much different than the average replacement level player you’d expect to replace Blair with.
So while they play, Blair > Taj. When Blair is done, the Spurs will replace him with a guy like Taj. Or more likely, they wouldn’t be satisfied with replacing Blair with Taj, and they’d go out looking for more.
Taj is so old he'll be past his prime before Blair's knees give out.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
You tell me. You said there were reports of cartilage damage.
I thought ACL’s were ligaments. I’m no medical expert, though.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
The Spurs could gamble
on Blair, they have a lot of front court depth, if he got hurt it wouldn’t have been a problem for them, we can look at a recent Chicago athlete Tommie Harris, Harris had big time red flags for his knees going into the draft, if his knees weren’t red flagged he would’ve been a top 5 pick, but he fell to the Bears at 13, and its bitting the Bears right in the ass. The gamble might not be worth the reward, he could play 8 years or be done in 3, its a risk.
by QUINTEN DALEY on Jan 14, 2010 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
With Tim Duncan
Spurs had no 1st round pick and took Blair with 7th in second round.
Spurs are older and need to win now with Tim Duncan so it’s a great, high risk chance to get at title given the Bulls had already picked Taj.
Who here knows that Spurs would have passed on Taj had he fallen that far?
or given 20-20 hindsight, why wouldn’t the Spurs go with Jonas Jerebko 6-9 220 SF Sweden Intl. given how well he’s played.
because blair is better than jerebko?
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
Correction, THE SPURS HAD NO FRONT COURT DEPTH
and they had to get that pick right.
Ime Udoka and Matt Bonner were the only forwards/centers on that team that got more than 1000 minutes last year other than Tim Duncan. What depth are you talking about?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Two fewer than the Bulls had.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
someone made one
http://www.blogabull.com/2010/1/13/1250552/blair-goes-off-for-28-21-in-31
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 14, 2010 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
coache's is French for coach's ....it sounds more intelligent that way
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
Amazing as Blair was tonight, even more amazing is that Manu was 0 for 10.
If he played for Vinny, he’d never get off the end of the bench after that …too many missed jumpers.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Jan 13, 2010 11:22 PM CST up reply actions
in further developments,
doug toe nuts sucks like sam smith do.http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-confidential/2010/01/should-the-bulls-play-tyrus-more.html(update referenced by “-ed” up top)
"Let's do some living... after we die"
They don't have cheap-ass GarPaxDorf
Decent ownership, GM and coach. They will spent money to win. And Lebron wants to win a championship.
MBL=Moroccan Bowling League?
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 14, 2010 5:53 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Well we can use this season to try to make sense of a few things
1) Why exactly did we got Taj instead of Blair?
2) Why exactly did we give Hinrinch a huge contract and didn’t trade him when we got Rose?
3) Why after 3 years trying we neither got Gordon for a fair price nor got anything at all for him?
4) What was the big idea behind hiring VDN?
5) Is TT playing time a joke, a saboutage to lower his contract value or pure stupidity?
6) Does TT really believe we expect him to be a shooter?
7) How long will it take to Noah to lose his patience and get crazy again?
… forget it this season will bring no answers
I listened to Bill Simmons last audio on NBA trade rumours...the Bosh trade to LA
sounds realistic.
Simmons also made a basketball case for LeBron going to the Clippers…which would make sense for their cheap-ass owner since it would DOUBLE the value of his franchise.
That team has building blocks with Griffin and Baron Davis trying to play hard again.
If Sterling wasn’t an idiot, he would woo LeBron and CHANGE THE NAME OF THE FRANCHISE to get rid of all the old stigma of being the Clippers.
by KentuckyBullsFan on Jan 14, 2010 9:21 AM CST reply actions
Simmons makes everything sound plausible in his own crazy world.
Bosh to LA could happen, but I just don’t know if the Lakers are willing to take a chance on a guy that could conceivably leave after winning a title.
It was also a punch in the face to hear Chad Ford say Kirk Hinrich has zero trade value at this point. Oh, how they could have moved him last season and been the absolute front-runners for 2010.
Taj Gibson is the face of Bulls basketball!
by Trey23 on Jan 5, 2010 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Jan 14, 2010 9:28 AM CST up reply actions
He still has value, but the
best time would’ve been to trade him last off season when his value was high, the Bulls were bitching about who would be the back-up PG if they traded Hinrich, if they’re all in for 2010 you make the trade and find FA to fill that role.
trade
I really don’t think we shoud trade luol deng, we have no body scoring consistently besides him, rose, and noah. that would be a good base for the future along with our young guys JJ, and Taj. Although i really do like Tyrus Thomas, he gives us a huge boost plays great off the bench but we need someone who can score more.
When Miller comes in the game
and totally frustrates some young buck with his old man moves and style. I laugh and laugh and laugh… Old man just pumped faked you! Old man just drove by you! Old man just grabbed your arm on a box out and pretended you fouled him! Old man wants to fight you! Old man just beat you up the court even though it just took six years off his life! You just got Millered!
That and Derrick Rose. I like watching those things.
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