[UPDATE (8/31): McGraw says the report is bogus, and credit to him for being the only beat guy following up on it at all. -ed.]
Arroyo to the Bulls? On Saturday, El Nuevo Dia, a newspaper out of Puerto Rico, reported that (Carlos) Arroyo was close to signing a deal with the Chicago Bulls. According to the report, the agreement would be for one season and $1 million.
2 months ago
JSlakov
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kind of odd
because we already have Hinrich and Hunter to play the 8 back up PG minutes a game, but maybe this will help they be more willing to trade Kirk.
by JSlakov on Aug 29, 2009 10:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I like your thinking.
Despite the loss of BG, I’m still a firm believer than Kirk must be moved. Especially in light of the shrinking cap, the Bulls total commitment to Rose as the franchise, paying that kind of dough is just madness.
I’m not that crazy about Arroyo, however. He and Pargo to round out the backcourt? Yikes.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Aug 29, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully this is the reason behind it if they do sign him
Since I am Puerto Rican I would love this….. :P
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Aug 29, 2009 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes to Arroyo over Gray
And as a further green light to trade Kirk
by Sports2 on Aug 29, 2009 11:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes that was my first thought a trade of Kirk Hinrich at the trade deadline.
Because WHY IS HE STILL ON THIS TEAM!? Or it could be Lindsey Hunter will become the coach midseason for Vinny. Ha….
I have seen a QB and it was good.
by SoulEater7 on Aug 29, 2009 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I absolutely 2nd that
Tyrus-Noah-Miller-Johnson-Gibson and who knows some Deng at the 4 are enough depth in the C spots. I’d so much rather have the talented headcase that is Arroyo on this squad…. He’s at least an NBA player….just not consistent enough to show his talents here.
Thurston Moore is a rock god
by majoyenrac on Aug 31, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meant C and PF spots
Thurston Moore is a rock god
by majoyenrac on Aug 31, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
he does suck…but id still cop a jersey..dunno why, maybe cuz i just had arroz con pollo
The only way you can avoid making a mistake is not to make a decision . Our Owner´s philosophy-
by Belize on Aug 29, 2009 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kirk is gone...he publicly said that he wanted to start. That will not happen in Chicago.
This season is a critical year for Loul Deng….if he cannot find a way to cut the mustard with Derrick Rose then he is out of here. Tyrus is gone also. If Johnson and Gibson contribute anything meaningful then the Bulls may have a new forward tandem to go with Rose and Noah.
The Bulls are remaking the franchise around Rose.
Arroyo can play spot minutes and Johnson can handle the ball when Rose is on the bench. Johnson is probably our second best playmaker behind Rose.
by Bart71 on Aug 29, 2009 11:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I like Johnson's talent
but I won’t go so far as to say he’s probably the second best playmaker on the team until he actually plays some real games.
"I've missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty six times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."- Michael Jordan
by bigballa10 on Aug 29, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You want Johnson handling the ball?
That will never happen.
by dakoose on Aug 29, 2009 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course...
didn’t you know he can breakdance? Everyone knows breakdancers make the best backup PGs…
by smash! on Aug 29, 2009 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
4 quarter plan:
kick the ball to arroyo, literally
The only way you can avoid making a mistake is not to make a decision . Our Owner´s philosophy-
by Belize on Aug 30, 2009 2:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Noooooo!
Great so this summer has been about lack luster signings and draft picks.
by knickknack7450 on Aug 29, 2009 1:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
I might like it more if they hadn’t already signed Hunter and Pargo. How about somebody above 6’2"?
"I've missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty six times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."- Michael Jordan
by bigballa10 on Aug 29, 2009 1:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hunter is essentially a well-salaried assistant coach. He has no business getting minutes at this point.
And Arroyo > Pargo. So, yes, I think this move is a pretty good one, especially if it means the exodus of the Kirk. I don’t know who it makes sense to deal Kirk to at this point, though. However, if they can get that contract off the books for 2010, that’s huuuuge. That could mean the difference between getting a max guy and not, especially if Salmonella decides to opt in.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Aug 29, 2009 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure I'd rather have Arroyo over Pargo
but point was basically that we already have Pargo (6’1") and Hunter (6’2") under contract and Arroyo, while better than those two, won’t play much (because we have Rose) and still leaves us with only John Salmons at the two with no backup being taller than 6’2".
"I've missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty six times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."- Michael Jordan
by bigballa10 on Aug 29, 2009 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Arroyo
At this stage is probably a better player than Hunter anyway, and for $1M he’s not playing much no matter how you slice it.
Keep Hunter as the coach.
Either way Arroyo a billion times better than Gray.
Thurston Moore is a rock god
by majoyenrac on Aug 31, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm still loving that we drafted Taj Gibson in the effing first round of this god-damn PG heavy draft...
when we could have gotten a VERY GOOD backup PG there and negated this whole business of signing people with no up-side and no future with the organization like Hunter and Arroyo. Waste of time, waste of money, waste of roster spot.
And by “loving” I mean “despising”…
by smash! on Aug 29, 2009 6:08 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
But it was a surprise that Taj Gibson was still available!
He has upside!!!!1111
…
I support the Tornado Release [See: Joakim Noah]
by Prevenge on Aug 30, 2009 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think to most experts it was a suprise that he was drafted at all...
and a shock that it happened in the 1st round. I’d rather have Augustine for a one year contract.
by smash! on Aug 30, 2009 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, yeah,
but you know the organization’s comments. They said that.
I couldn’t find it but I remember it. Was referencing that. :P
I support the Tornado Release [See: Joakim Noah]
by Prevenge on Aug 30, 2009 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair
He was projected as a late first round/early second round pick because his measurements at the draft combine were surprisingly favorable (and the amount of halfway-serviceable bigs available was nil), although your point about drafting Gibson in the first place still stands.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
by Ben R on Aug 31, 2009 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
While I dislike the Taj drafting,
I’m pretty sure the Bulls were more worried about depth at the PF spot than depth at the PG spot. As people have pointed out, Derrick Rose will be playing the majority of the minutes there. No point signing some other PG to a guaranteed contract for the next 4 years to sit on the bench.
I also disagree that any PG at that spot would have been “very good” at anything.
by runningman on Aug 31, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not convinced signing Arroyo means letting Kirk go
I think Kirk is going to start the season as the starting 2 guard. You have Salmons backing up the 2 and the 3. And you would have Arroyo getting spot minutes at the 1. There is a huge dropoff between Hinrich and Arroyo – I don’t think the Bulls are going to go all in on the 2010 plan by trading Kirk.
Rose / Arroyo / Hinrich
Hinrich / Salmons
Deng/ Salmons
by Basketball Smurf on Aug 29, 2009 6:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
They might not be going all in on the 2010 plan by trading Kirk, but they damned well should.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Aug 29, 2009 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
Its just looks like they’ve passed on so many opportunities to salary dump kirk (Minny, Portland) and I don’t see a trade out there to do it now. Maybe Golden State or Houston, but I doubt it.
by Basketball Smurf on Aug 29, 2009 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be hilarious if we went into the tax for Kirk of all people.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Aug 29, 2009 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
kirk will start at the 2
or maybe Salmons-Deng as 2-3. But I think the Bulls will try and let Hinrich’s stock rise a bit b4 dumping him. I think signing Arroyo will let the bulls roll the dice with some of there personnel (which is dubious at best.)
don't let the bed bugs bite
by Rex Grossman on Aug 30, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, they need Salmon's stock to rise more than they need Kirks...
bc they need to make sure Salmons opts out at the end of the year no matter what else happens.
by smash! on Aug 31, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ahhh
yes! ! I forgot that part..
don't let the bed bugs bite
by Rex Grossman on Aug 31, 2009 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
God Forbid if we lose the instant firepower of the wisened veteran, Hunter if this goes through.
I don’t care how good this Arroyo may be. All I want to know……..is he capable of making up for Lindsay’s instant offense of 2.6 ppg and FG % of .329? Those are pretty big sneakers to fill. Or maybe they’ll just cut Tyrus in a salary dump and keep the dynamic quartet of backup guards (Kurt, Lindsay, Carlos and Jannero). With these pieces to play with, Vinny will be able to experiment with a 5 guard lineup anytime he wants to pick up the tempo, Now wouldn’t that be a heart thumper?
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Aug 29, 2009 6:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Had they drafted an Ellington or Green, then there would have been a viable backup SG option with some size…..still don’t understand the Gibson pick
then it would be no prob to ditch Kirk, they should have just made the Kirk from Blake/Outlaw deal happen.
by C Smoove on Aug 29, 2009 6:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
taj is for tyrus and carlos is for kirk…?
R.I.P. Johnny Red Kerr + Norm Van Lier !!
by HAYMAYON on Aug 29, 2009 7:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
poor man's Puerto Rican John Starks.
I have seen a QB and it was good.
by SoulEater7 on Aug 29, 2009 7:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they were afraid a good NBA guard wouldn't want to play behind Rose and Hinrich (draft or free agency)
Which would be odd from a team perspective, but who knows. And hey, a player like Felton or Sessions would cost money. And they already spent some on Pargo as a backup PG/SG, so better shore up the depth with a cheap signing. But while Arroyo was decent last year in Tel Aviv and before in the NBA (around league average) which probably was the decisive factor, he arguably wasn’t even the best guard available internationally in free agency depending on if they wanted more PG or more combo or SG options. Other possibilities might have been veteran Moscow star SG Ramunas Siskauskas, SG Keith Langford, PG Terrell McIntyre, PG Ibrahim Jaaber, and two other players with NBA experience SG/SF Bostjan Nachbar and SG Gordan Giricek, …
There's Gotta Be More To Life
by Norsktroll on Aug 29, 2009 9:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Nachbar is 6'9" he swings between SF and PF, not SG and SF
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Aug 29, 2009 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you act like natural positions matter with our coach
by sin on Aug 29, 2009 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No I'm just acting like it's better to be informed than ill-informed.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Aug 30, 2009 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, all of those guys are either old or suck. Arroyo is right around league average for a PG at
1 million for 1 year. He’s an absolute steal and gives you options in making deals (ala dealing Kirk).
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Aug 30, 2009 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Arroyo is 30 as well
They are all rated higher than him in Europe. The league in Israel has no competition, and in the Euroleague he shot 43% and 29% while getting 4 assists in a ton of minutes for a PER of 15. McIntyre lead the EuroLeague in PER among all guards seeing significant playing time, Siskauskas was top 10. The others are slightly above Arroyo. Arroyo is average, not a bad deal, not one with upside.
Nachbar was an error, he is good but no need for him on the Bulls.
There's Gotta Be More To Life
by Norsktroll on Aug 30, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those guys are good in Europe, but Europe is a totally different style. I'll take the guy
that’s proven himself as a near league average player in the NBA at 1 million for 1 year over any of those other guys. Also McIntyre is 5’ frickin 9".
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Aug 30, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ahh then final piece for that playoff push
I remember Michael dribbling at the top of the key. Everybody knew to just get the hell out of his way. - Steve Kerr
by Yibs on Aug 29, 2009 10:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
we're signing pargo and arroyo for two free cheap shots at rondo when we get to the playoffs against the celtics again!
by sin on Aug 29, 2009 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats 14 for the roster.
Are they still 15 man rosters?
I have seen a QB and it was good.
by SoulEater7 on Aug 30, 2009 1:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they are 15
but if youre lookin to make a trade down the road, you leave a slot option. If they sign one more player and go into the season with 15, then roster would appear to be locked with a deadline deal a long shot, (at best)
don't let the bed bugs bite
by Rex Grossman on Aug 30, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way they carry 15
They don’t want to risk paying the luxury tax for one and plus they lose flexibility with a full roster. I wish I could remember where I read it but I saw an article saying that teams will probably carry less players due to the economy, etc.
"I've missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty six times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."- Michael Jordan
by bigballa10 on Aug 30, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought we drafted Johnson for that?
Derrick’s new breakdancing bodyguard, no?
by smash! on Aug 30, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would love nothing more than to see Rondo cheap shotted, but
wouldn’t it be more rewarding if Gray “accidently” tripped and landed with all his weight on Rajon’s ankle instead of our crop of midget guards, thus justifying his yearly salary in one fell swoop?
And why do you assume the Celtics will even make the playoffs now that the Bulls, with their offseason moves, once again become an Eastern Conference powerhouse, along with the revitalized Bucs, Wizards, Pacers and the mighty Bobcats now that they’ve added potential NBA superstar, Tyson Chandler to their star laden roster?
If the Bulls can land Arroyo, won’t this move them into the catbird seat to battle the Pistons for the title with their acquisition of Ben Gordon who besides bringing megascoring, will greatly strengthen their defense, especially against the Bull’s taller guards? I can see the Celtics easily falling to the cellar unless the addition of Shaq so screws up the Cav’s chemistry that they’ll wind up in the bottom of the barrel. The addition of Vince Carter should assure the Magic of a solid 8th spot, followed by a quick first round knockout delivered by the Bulls and their dominating front line.
Man, I don’t know exactly what’s in this sh*t I’m smokin’ as I read BaB, but it sure is mellow and makes me think more clearly. Further, I see no reason to dump Kirk, who will likely be an MVP candidate this year after the captain leads them to the finals. And who would have thought that Vinny could innovate so many complex sets on both ends of the court, thus earning him a unanImous seletion as NBA coach of the year?
Hey bro, how bout giving me another toke on that bong? Yeah I also think once they get their acts together, this year is going to see a subway series on the South and North sides. Sorry Cub fans, but I also see your 103 year drought continuing thanks to Contrares pitching a perfect game 7 in a 1-0 duel, capped by Thome’s inside the park homer off the left field wall.
But, Wrigley field fans, at least the Bears should be a shoo in for the super bowl thanks to their stable of high power receivers and great pass rush which should push them over the top in spite of Cutler’s popping his achilles in the last exhibition game. OK, that’s enough predictions for one post and anyway I’m really, really hungry all of a sudden for some reason.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Aug 30, 2009 2:15 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Why do we need to sign another guard when we already have Hinrich Pargo and Hunter?
D ROSE D WADE DESTINY DYNASTY
by Juan dela Cruz on Aug 30, 2009 3:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hinrich is the starting 2 guard and in their hearts the Bulls know Hunter can't play
Hence, the need for a backup point guard
by hitlesswonder on Aug 30, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
who is carlos arroya
sounds like a boxer
If you dont like me please ignore me and my posts
The Pirates,Reds,Royals, and Padres are not major league teams
by angryandy on Aug 30, 2009 3:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You mean Puerto Rican pop music legend Carlos Arroyo?
His song Oculto Secreto is lighting up Youtube! Seriously, this guy should stick to making horrible songs with autotune and leave the basketball to the professionals. He sucks and there is not one reason for him to be on the Bulls.
by Stay Chisel on Aug 30, 2009 9:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm all set for Vinny's 9-guard rotation this year!
[banging my head into the wall]
by KentuckyBullsFan on Aug 30, 2009 12:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Arroyo?
The only good thing I can remember about Bronson, I mean Carlos … Was his nice outing against the Dream Team about 2 years ago.
Ughh.
by Option27 on Aug 30, 2009 1:58 PM CDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
This could be a concern
Is Deng’s leg not healing as well as expected? Signing Arroyo may be insurance in case Deng is not healthy. Hinrich backs up Deng at the 3 and Arroyo comes off the bench at the guard position. I hope this isn’t real. I assume this means we do not sign Aron Gray. Why wouldn’t we go after a small forward if Deng is a concern?
by chgobr on Aug 30, 2009 4:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If Deng is not healthy,
I would expect Salmons to start at the 3 and Hinrich at the 2. Arroyo backs up Rose, Pargo backs up Hinrich and JJ backs up Salmons.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Aug 30, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did it ever occur to you
That thay may plan on playing Derrick off the ball some….meaning at the 2….thats the word in the Chicago. Word is he’s grown a few inches and the plan may be to play him off the ball some. He’s still our point, but they also would like to use him at the 2 in some instances. I saw that from a report on Sportsnight on Comcast Sports Net. Hince the signing of Arroyo.
by PeppEazy on Aug 30, 2009 4:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Grown a few inches?
Where did you hear that?
"I've missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty six times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."- Michael Jordan
by bigballa10 on Aug 30, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its possible for a 20 year old to grow up to an inch in a year, remember Deng is now taller than when we drafted him. 2 inches or more, though? Believe it when you see it.
Arroyo is competent and a good on ball defender. And we gotta have bodies for practice.
I just want Heinrich to go. We can get the same production from a much cheaper player. The problem is his contract really prohibits moving him. We should have given him to Portland when they were hot for him. For anything. A big of Bill Walton’s used headbands.
by Trey23 on Aug 30, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
“bag” of Walton’s headbands that read it should.
by Trey23 on Aug 30, 2009 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know it's possible
I’m just looking for some confirmation that he really did. I remember Turkoglu growing a couple inches too when he was on the Kings. If it’s true, that’s awesome.
"I've missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty six times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."- Michael Jordan
by bigballa10 on Aug 30, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No disrespect to El Nuevo Dia
I’m sure it’s a fine newspaper and all, but for that to be the only source reporting Arroyo to the Bull is kind of weak to me.
"I've missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty six times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."- Michael Jordan
by bigballa10 on Aug 30, 2009 6:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Get used to this
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Aug 31, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bulls not chasing Arroyo
There was a report over the weekend that free agent point guard Carlos Arroyo is going to sign with the Chicago Bulls. However, according to the Daily Herald, such a plan has never even been discussed.
Mike McGraw writes that adding Arroyo wouldn’t make much sense because the Bulls already have Kirk Hinrich, Jannero Pargo and Lindsey Hunter to fill in for Derrick Rose at point guard.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Aug 31, 2009 7:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
yay McGraw
working on the weekend.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 31, 2009 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank god. It doesn't make much sense to me...
But I do love how there have been several posts on BAB already factoring Arroyo into the regular rotation. Ug.
by smash! on Aug 31, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently, he’s trying to return to the NBA.
::::::::flatline
The only way you can avoid making a mistake is not to make a decision . Our Owner´s philosophy-
by Belize on Aug 31, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just out of curiosity
How dedicated are people here to having Hinrich moved? I don’t read the material here that often (though a good portion of it is well-informed and rather witty), but the only thing that would make sense for Chicago’s current string of moves is opening up 2010 cap space. That requires at least trading Hinrich away for cap relief, but they’ve missed on two opportunities (Minnesota and Portland) to dump him for said cap relief. If the crunch comes at the trade deadline, would Chicago dump Hinrich for cap relief? Say if the Lakers offered Morrison’s expiring, Farmar (assuming he doesn’t return to his ‘07-’08 form, in which case the Lakers have no reason to make this trade), and random parts for Hinrich, would the Bulls jump for it?
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
by Ben R on Aug 31, 2009 9:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Chicago wouldn't.
Would we have? We would’ve dumped Hinrich to retain Gordon last year, but you know … we’re not the Bulls FO, for good or ill.
I support the Tornado Release [See: Joakim Noah]
by Prevenge on Aug 31, 2009 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How would that have worked though
Hinrich next year = $9M, Gordon = $11-11.5M…
Plus eyes are on Wade.
I liked BG, thought he was incredibly exciting player to watch when he was on his game. Thought he had the killer instinct that is something that you can’t learn, you just have it, and few are more killer with absolutely nobody else doing anything on the team than BG in this league).
I think he’s an underrated passer and improved his ball handling considerably from season 1 to season 5, and while he’s not a great or perhaps a good defender, he’s not a terrible defender and at least puts reasonable effort on that end.
His deficiencies are mostly size and occasionally decision making (though I’d argue Skiles and VDN much too often just said, give the ball to BG and allowed the other guys to stand too much and watch)….I think that’s something he’ll improve upon.
But whatever it is, he’s no Wade, Roy, Kobe, healthy TMAC (if there’s ever such a thing).
He wasn’t going to get paid as such…..
But Hinrich’s strengths are everyting that are Ben’s weaknesses, Hinrich’s a better decision maker when he needs to be, HInrich’s a far superior defender, Hinrich takes it more for the team less for him, and most of all HInrich makes far less dough, doesn’t need the ball to be effective, and well Derrick Rose now should be taking the BG mantle. I’m fine keeping and not fire selling Kirk unless we totally flop this year, and I don’t think we will.
Kirk’s not the big issue anymore folks, last year when we had a glimmer of BG hope, sure Kirk should have been traded, but the big trade for now expring big dollar Miller and likely to opt out Salmons has opened up the possibilities a bit to get a big time free agent (if not a max, we could get 1/2 very good free agents who in a typical year might have been overcompensated at or near Max (aka Ben Wallace year, Rashard Lewis year, etc) because there’s only so many max contracts to come along.
If it works out we get Wade. We can trade Hinrich at that next year deadline, or maybe just rollout the best 3 guard lineup of the last 10+ years at least with a Rose-Wade-Hinrich combo (presuming Rose takes that step, Wade stays healthy, and Kirk doesn’t return to 2007-2008 form).
If it works that we get a PF like Amar’e or Bosh or my personal fave Dirk, having another passing guard who can hit the 3 ball to foil the slashing Rose, and who can somewhat cover perhaps for some of Rose’s D deficiencies (Derrick will/should improve defensively but is probably a few years away from really getting solid there).
Either way I’m excited to see it pan out. Fire selling Kirk now is foolish and will only lead to us not at least maintaining that .500 record or better that we absolutely need to do to attract the final piece of the puzzle.
I also don’t believe the revenues will dip in such a fashion as indicated in the press. It’s a risk, sure, but that’s a better risk than fire selling Kirk for crap, rolling out a
Rose-(Pargo, young not quite there, Salmons (a 3 playing a 2), oft-injured Deng, still not sure what we have 3 yrs + in Thomas, Noah and aging Miller….
Kirk’s a vital member for the current “plan”.
Either way as the year’s progress his contract will look more and more favorable for his ability.
Thurston Moore is a rock god
by majoyenrac on Sep 1, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's a couple things wrong with this
One is that Salmons opting out is certainly not a given. Considering the amount of top level free agents that will be available and his age, if he opted out he could wind up possibly making the same or less money than he currently is getting. I would say his situation is a toss up until we hear otherwise. The other thing is, with Kirk’s contract still on the books, how are we able to sign Wade AND Amare or Bosh. They won’t have enough for two max contracts.
"I've missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty six times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."- Michael Jordan
by bigballa10 on Sep 1, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he could get a 4-5 year deal at those $5-6M range
And play until he’s 35-36, or forgoe that risk and injury and get a 2-3 yr extension around the same….
I never said Wade AND Bosh I was saying if we got the Wade prize x or if we got the Bosh prize y…
Thurston Moore is a rock god
by majoyenrac on Sep 1, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok
I misread the Amare and Bosh part. It may be better for Salmons to opt out, I’m just saying it’s not a given.
"I've missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty six times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."- Michael Jordan
by bigballa10 on Sep 1, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brilliant analysis by majoyenrac
Primarily because he is echoing my sentiments. Secondly, this obsession with dumping Hinrich makes no sense anymore, now that Ben Gordon is gone. Surely, no one seriously believes that our dynamic duo of Pargo and Hunter can replace his contributions. Kirk will be an extremely valuable 6th man this season and if all our fantasies for picking up a superstar in 2010 fall through, Bulls fans should feel lucky he’s still on our roster. Meanwhile, he can always be dumped next year when the crystal ball becomes clearer.
I also want to apologize for my prediction that the White Sox would beat the Cubs this year in a subway series 4-3, on Jim Thome’s inside the park homerun off the left field wall to give Contraras a 1-0 victory while tossing a perfect game. Now that Thome was let go for a lifetime .240 singles hitter in class A and Jose is headed to the National League which can take advantage of his hitting skills, I will change my prediction that the Cubbies will end their 103 year drought by sweeping their crosstown rivals thanks to Soriano’s 12 homerun hitting barage setting a new major league record. If the Bulls retain Kurt, I still see them beating the Lakers in 6 for the title even if the Arroyo signing was bogus.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Sep 1, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Now those are what I call
bold predictions
by Rose Colored Goggles on Sep 1, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gordon next year would be in the second year of an increasing contract and he would've been paid about 9.6 million form the numbers I remember.
What happened happened.
I don’t think Kirk’s a vital member for the current plan, though – the current plan being ‘rebuild like a bat out of hell’. He’s overpaid for what we’re using him for. And trading him frees up enough cap space to sign a max contract next year [depending on the cap situation this may or may not be needed, obviously; last I read it probably was].
I support the Tornado Release [See: Joakim Noah]
by Prevenge on Sep 1, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We didn't have
Salmons or Miller then….
That came later and was the reason the game changed to favor dumping Gordon (unfortunately). Nocioni’s parting was what sealed Miller and Salmons as he was a key piece for the Kings….and that’s the contract trade that opened up these possibilities….
Had we had BG for the dollars Reinsdorf ultimately pulled, I would have been ecstatic, I am and always have been a BG fan and was saying early on last year before this trade especially that Kirk had to go, but then we got the Miller expiring deal (Miller’s a guy who can play and fits a need) and Salmons is a good player and a huge upgrade over Hughes….
We have the opp to be .500 now with this lineup and be poised for a max guy next year. Heck if teh cap stays where it is we’re golden, if it drops 1-2% we’re golden…
And we can always make a tweaky trade to save a million with another piece later anyway.
Thurston Moore is a rock god
by majoyenrac on Sep 1, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did anyone else just get a call from "The Bulls"?
Asking how excited they were about the season coming up?
by Option27 on Sep 1, 2009 12:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Check your PASPN team.
I proposed you a trade a week ago.
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Sep 2, 2009 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gettin a max guy isn’t possible with Kirk still being around. Kirk is a nice player, a luxury as a 6th man but if we want to even attempt to get a higher end FA, his contract has to be gone.
by C Smoove on Sep 1, 2009 3:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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