A case for Tyrus

by illwill on Jul 9, 2009 8:05 AM CDT Comment 26 comments

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Last year Tyrus Thomas averaged 10.8 ppg, 6.4 rpg, and 1.9 bpg in 27.5 minutes a game. Tyrus Shot 45% from the field and 78% from the free throw line. We all know that Tyrus came on strong later in the year becoming a double double machine and wetting the appetites of Bulls fans everywhere. The last 3 months of the season Tyrus posted averages of 13.8 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 2.1 bpg while shooting 47.3% from the field and 77% from the line while playing 32 mpg.

What if VDN gave TT consistent playing time and minutes that reflect a true PF in the NBA? LMA averaged 37 mpg last year for the Blazers and posted a stat line of 18 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 1 bpg while shooting 48% from the floor and 78% from the line. As we all know LMA is the guy we traded for Tyrus, so who better for a comparison. People think that LMA is a far more better player than Tyrus and this is not the case, as I am going to prove.

Based on TT stats from the last 3 months of the season starting in Feb, if TT played 37 mpg he would have posted a stat line of 15.9 ppg, 8.5 rpg and 2.4 bpg. I divided TT's stats starting from (2-2-09) to the last game of the season (4-15-09) based his minutes played per game (32 ppg). I then multiplied whatever number the calculator provided me by 37 to determine TT's output if he were to play 37 mpg at the same production rate of the 32 minute average.

Based on these stats LMA averaged about 2 points more than TT, but averaged 1 rebound less and almost a block and a half less than TT. LMA only shot better from the filed and the line by 1%. With BG gone Tyrus will probably get more shots. With the continued development of Tyrus, better chemistry Rose and this being a contract year I expect big things for him. As we all know TT has been working extremely hard this off-season and has a lot to prove.

Tyrus turns 23 this August and still is a long way from his prime. If Tyrus can break out this year it will give the Bulls a lot of options. It is a win-win situation for the Bulls because his development improves his trade value and he will be a valuable piece come February.

LMA stats @ 37 mpg

18 ppg / 7.5 rpg / 1 bpg / 48% FG / 78% FT

TT stats @ 37 mpg

15.9 ppg / 8.5 rpg / 2.4 bpg / 47% FG / 77% FT

The sky is the limit for TT all we all want him to succeed. The only thing holding Tyrus back is VDN.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, Tyger's a Thomas fan, BUT...

…one of the reasons I had finally come to terms with knowing that Gordon was going to leave, was that I thought it would provide a more prominent role for Thomas. A worst-case scenario is that he can’t handle it, the team sucks for a year and starts over. That’s worse than what’s going to happen anyway??? Best-case scenario is that he becomes good enough to be a legitimate #2 “play-making” option and the team has a core of Rose, Thomas and Noah going forward, at minimum. Maybe Deng.

Anwyay, the addition of the ball-hogging Salmons and the organization’s disbelief in Thomas and the org’s lack of every admittedly taking a one-step back, 3 steps forward approach, has pretty much dashed those hopes. If this team doesn’t offer Thomas an extension this summer, or offers him one so low it’s “insulting,” I’ll, thankfully, be done with it for the time being. Call be when Rose hits his prime, his up for his first Free Agency after his rookie extension, and they decide they actually have to try to win to keep him.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jul 9, 2009 8:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

VDN like Skiles is preventing Tyrus to develop.

Big need to be exposed and you do that by giving them playing time. The only difference from Tyrus and other young PF’s was playing time not skills.

Homecoming

by illwill on Jul 9, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So basically, you're falling back on the tried and true "we don't want too many good players" argument?

Fortunately, with Gordon gone, Rose can properly develop!
And Tyrus too!

Seriously though… yeah, Salmons is going to take a share of the load. Your starting SG is going to shoot the ball. Deng will take some shots too I’d imagine. I guess my question would be what guy would, in your opinion, not seem to be a ball-hog if your goal is to force feed Tyrus as the #2 option? Do we need to go with a Raja Bell type for a year just to give Tyrus a trial run?

BullsTwo

by Sports2 on Jul 9, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What are you talking about?

I simply wrote the Fanpost to explain why I think Tyrus will continue to develop. He would have made the same progress with or without BG. Gordon was not the savior of the franchise and wanted too much money than what the Bulls could have offered. Lets move on with our lives, if not become a Pisst-ons fan.

Homecoming

by illwill on Jul 9, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

he was responding to tyger.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Jul 9, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh my bad homie

Homecoming

by illwill on Jul 9, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, no. I've been resigned to Gordon leaving since they drafted Thabo.

I thought they were going to draft Rush or Lee last year before they got lucky. Gordon leaving has been on my mind for the past two years. This was just my way of coming to terms with it, much like people are now.

Before the trades, when Thomas started playing well again, I thought, “Alright, so I know Gordon is leaving after this year. Is there anything positive that can come out of that?” Obviously, I’ve liked Thomas a lot. I think he has raw ball-handling and shooting skills, and he really doesn’t know how to harness them. He’d rather be what he thinks LeBron James is now, than try to be what James was 3 or 4 years ago. Scotter and I agree (or did at one point) on this: they drafted Thomas to be a star. Otherwise, you get the safe pick in Aldridge. Thomas wants to be “the man.” Play off of that. Don’t NOT give him an inch, afraid he might take a mile. Give him a foot to make maybe make him happy with the responsibility but stop it there.

I dunno. Anyway. I think Hinrich would have been that option you’re talking about. He’s not a good SG, but he can be Raja Bell but with legitimate PG skills, as in, hitting big guys, force-feeding them, so to speak.

Gordon was never staying and Hinrich was never leaving. I really do believe that if they ran out a lineup of Rose, Hinrich, Deng, Thomas and Noah for a year, making the Rose the No. 1 option, Thomas No. 2 and Deng No. 3, there would be a chance for a very, very good team. A small chance, perhaps, but one there nonetheless. Now if you could keep Gordon and make him something like a co-No. 2 with Thomas or whatever, that team is even better. But I’m not sure I see him doing that. Possible, of course. But not with this coaching staff.

Anyway, that would have been my “vision” and my “plan” if I were Paxson knowing my boss wasn’t going to sign Gordon. I would have hired a coach (paid a lot of money for it, too) with a strong leadership… ethic? And it could still work with Salmons, actually, but I just don’t like him as much as a facilitator as Hinrich. Start Hinrich and bring Salmons off the bench, and it could still work. I think that’s their best bet for success with this team if they strike out next summer. It likely fails, but maybe it succeeds. But is failing any worse than not even trying it? Not for me, it’s not.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jul 9, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are you aware of what you just said?

Tyrus a #2 option, that’s just laughable. If that’s the case then the Bulls are in some serious trouble.

Who the hell cares if Salmons is a ball hog? He shot 47% from the floor and scored 18 points on only 13 shots with the Bulls. He gets the job done more often than not. So I don’t know why the addition of Salmons has dashed any hopes of anything.

by LoveForTheGame on Jul 9, 2009 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Salmons won't be around after this year (I hope). I have a bigger vision than the 2009-2010 season.

That’s just me, though.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jul 9, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are you warped?

Tyrus does not have a single offensive skill other than an incredibly inconsistent 17 foot jumpshot and the occasional lob dunk. How is a guy who does not know how to play the game of basketball…and a guy who has no ability WHATSOEVER with his back to the basket going to be the number 2 option? Where do you Tyrus supporters come from and what team are you watching?

by papadoc on Jul 10, 2009 1:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha, you're cute

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jul 11, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just because ...

…those numbers look comparable doesnt mean hes a comparable player. You are still comparing projected stats with actual stats.

Imagine what we could get for Tyrus if he did play those minutes and put up those numbers through the first half of the season.

by chlutz508 on Jul 9, 2009 11:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Tyrus had a horrid beginning of the year to december,

came on strong after the all-star break, and then got benched a lot so we could play Brad Miller until his eyeballs were bugging out from exhaustion.

Vinny Del Negro Offensive Gameplan, Part 1
-When there's less than 30 seconds left in the game, that's me with my hands cupped around my mouth yelling.
"BEN! SHOOT! SHOOOOTTTT!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO ME?!?"
-This segues nicely into my Timeout Management classes - order now!

by Prevenge on Jul 9, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've never understood the overreaction to Tyrus' mental bloopers

The man has talent. A lot of it. He has positive effects on the game far more than negative. The mental bloopers just stick in people’s minds, I guess. We’d be fools to let Tyrus go. Tyson instantly became a much more valued player as soon as he left. Tyrus will do the same. He’s too good a talent. We need to keep our talent, not ship it away. At the end of the day, Talent still wins.

by Bill Cartwright's Elbow on Jul 9, 2009 2:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

For easy reference, Tyrus' monthly splits (Nov-March) stolen from Scotter's Fanposts

The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.

by Ozzie Montana on Jul 9, 2009 2:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks!

by Prevenge on Jul 9, 2009 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You know... even his best month offensively wasn't all that spectacular

BullsTwo

by Sports2 on Jul 10, 2009 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Which is why I've given up on the concept of him being an effective scorer on this team

I hate going down the “either he gets it or doesn’t” road, but dammit he just doesn’t do enough to warrant more shots. His passing, weak-side defense, ability to draw fouls, that’s what make him valuable to me, his jump shooting or whatever post game he has is entirely replaceable. It may sound brutal for a lottery pick, but I think we’re looking at the complete version of Chris Anderson.

The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.

by Ozzie Montana on Jul 10, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

or

ak47 at reasonable $$$$?

usually i say josh smith….. still don’t want to give him up for rent a year booz…..

the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS

by marionette on Jul 10, 2009 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wait, what? Compared to the league?

Or, compared to a 3rd-year offensively raw project who has intermittently been an “established” starter?

You expect something “spectacular” from that guy? I don’t know how one couldn’t be happy with a 58% TS%, 18% USG%, 115 ORtg with someone who could be “spectacular” on defense.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jul 11, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Talented man with very little basketball IQ

I respectfully disagree with most of you. I think he is talented and can contribute but I do not believe he is or will be a starting PF on a championship contending team. We need a true PF that can rebound, play defense on the block, and score with his back to the basket. Thomas falls short. I think he can be a real asset on a team as a back up but he just does not have the basketball IQ/size to be a starter on a contender in my opinion. I know most of you disagree I just wanted to add my two cents in. I hope the rumors about the Bulls possibly landing Boozer for Thomas and another are true.

by Savage23 on Jul 9, 2009 4:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I think you're underestimating Tyrus' abilities...

I think if he plays with a center that is a reliable scoring option in the post he will do just fine. He is already a superb defender and shot blocker.

He will never be as good as this guy though… ha ha ;-)