A Few Trades That Could Work and Some General Thoughts
I think the following three trades could potentially happen and would satisfy each team's interests. The first two have been rumored in some shape or form, but I have not heard about the third one.
1) Bulls send Tyrus Thomas(4.7) and Jerome James (6.6 expiring) to Utah for Carlos Boozer (12.5 expiring).
From our side this is a no brainer. We upgrade our PF position and get a contract year performance from Boozer. If he fits well with Rose and the rest of the team, we have a leg up on signing him next summer, if not we get another 12.5 million to expire.
From the Jazz side, they get a good young talent in Thomas and an expiring contract in Jerome James which I believe is partially covered by insurance. This would help the Jazz, already in the luxury tax, save some money while still receiving a talent for Boozer, which by all accounts they won't pay for what he wants next season.
Side Note:
I've heard rumors of Rip Hamilton to Utah that would send Carlos Boozer to Detroit, which may be more favorable for Utah. If they think they can compete, Rip is a great talent to get back for Boozer, but they're still paying the tax and are probably a year or two away from being able to get some good talent (they have a few large, poor contracts). I think Detroit would probably make that trade, it sounds like Rip wasn't too happy last year, they've always liked Boozer and I don't really buy into the Stuckey-Gordon-Rip 3 guard trio, they're going to get lit up on defense that way.
2) Bulls send Kirk Hinrich (9.5, 9, 8 left) to Portland for Steve Blake (4.9 expiring) and Travis Outlaw (4 expiring).
We do this because Hinrich is probably a bit too pricey for a third guard. He doesn't fit poorly, but he is more of a luxury. We get a solid backup PG for Rose and a player who can help replace Gordon's instant offense in Travis Outlaw. Both contracts are expiring, so we free up another 9 million next year.
Portland has made it no secret that they would like to upgrade their PG situation. If Andre Miller ends up staying with Philly, there aren't too many options left. They would likely prefer Hinrich over Iverson, even at a discount for Iverson (team ball, etc.) and options such as Nash, Bibby, Harris and Kidd are all pretty much dried up (possible exception of Nash). So Portland gets an upgrade at PG, an unselfish player who can also play defense.
Maybe we need to throw in something small like cash considerations or a 2nd rounder to make Portland pull the trigger, but I think that is more than worth it for us. If Portland starts out slow they might be more apt to make this trade.
3) Bulls send Brad Miller (12.2 expiring) to Philly for Samuel Dalembert (11.3, 12.2)
We do this because we instantly upgrade the center position. Dalembert can easily fit in with our team and split time with Noah. He gets into some foul trouble so Noah will have plenty of time to play. If either player picks it up on the offensive end (possible, perhaps likely b/c they are both developing on that end of the floor) we could even play them alongside each other. A player like Dalembert is exactly the type of guy we would want to play down low in the playoffs against the likes of Howard, Perkins/KG/Wallace, Shaq/Z/Varajao and Bosh. Combined with Noah we would have a respectable defensive paint.
We do lose a good shooting center, but we were pretty shot happy last year already. I think the upgrade on defense is worth it. We do take 12.2 million in salary that would've been expiring, but with either of the previous two trades, or something similar, we wouldn't be in any worse of a position for 2010 as we are now and would be in good shape for 2011.
Philly does this because Dalembert has made it no secret that he doesn't want to play in Philly anymore. They can afford to trade for Brad Miller, a player who probably won't mind backup up Brand or fitting in however they want him to. He adds much needed shooting to that team and his contract is expiring, so Philly frees up some money in 2010.
I've heard Dalembert has a trade kicker of a few million in his contract, I'm not sure if this is true or not, but that would mean we would have to play around with some numbers and I don't see any obvious fits on both rosters to make it work. A future Philly draft pick might have to round this one up, which we could likely use to get another small piece in 2010 or 2011, as we don't really need more young projects and do need support around Rose, Deng and whoever else projects to be our starting core in 2011 and beyond.
Roster Additions* (We lose Hinrich, Tyrus, Miller and James)
PG Rose/Blake*
SG Salmons/Outlaw*
SF Deng/Johnson
PF Boozer*/Taj
C Dalembert*/Noah
Taj and Johnson would get some valuable development time and hopefully could contribute positively by the playoffs. Otherwise, Noah could play some PF or even start at center. Salmons can move to the 3 if Johnson isn't working out as backup and Outlaw can play some extended minutes at the 2. Blake is a good backup for Rose.
We're potentially competitive in the East with this lineup right now and if it doesn't work? We have Outlaw, Blake and Boozer expiring for about 20 million in 2010 along with Tim Thomas' 6 million. Dalembert expires in 2011, so we would have some more flexibility and would know by then if Noah is our starting center or not.
I think with the possible exception of the third trade (unless Philly throws in a 1st rounder or something), none of these trades are dependent on one another.
I keep hearing about how it's the end of our team for another 5 years because we didn't pay Ben Gordon 11 million, but to be honest where did that get us last year vs Boston? Gordon had some terrific nights, but look at the man he was guarding, Ray Allen. The truth is we were outperformed at the SG position. The truth is Gordon played his ass off in a contract year and we wouldn't be able to expect the same level of play for 5 years at 11+ a year, not to mention the shaky defense. If Lamar Odom isn't worth 11 million to anybody and Boozer opted to take his 11 million as well, I don't think 5 years and 55 million is good value on Gordon. It pains me to say it because Gordon has been the most exciting offensive player we've had since Jordan, but I truly believe it. Detroit overpaid for him. On a side note, by adding Gordon to their roster, Detroit either has to move Rip or go with a huge gamble in a small 3 guard set. I don't see the latter working and the former may not yield equal talent for Rip.
One last word about Gordon, I admit that his contract for us wouldn't be a huge burden on the team, but it limits our options (Salmons/Deng cluster at 3) and flexibility (11 million tied up for 5 years), as well as our balance (defensive guard play). Maybe Deng got too big of a contract, and yes we got had on the Ben Wallace deal, but making a smaller "wrong" doesn't really do much for two previous bad contracts (still undecided on the Deng thing, injuries are just bad luck in many cases).
Another mention I keep hearing is about how good are two draft picks this year could be. I don't buy into this though, the roster after the trades above allows them the opportunity to develop, but also provides plenty of cap space and roster flexibility to cover us in case one or both is a bust. Don't forget we took players like Hinrich (7), Gordon (3), Deng (7), Tyrus (2*), Noah (9) and Rose (1) much higher up in drafts that were by all accounts much stronger than this year's. Noah and Tyrus are still not concrete starters 2 and 3 years later, so I think people are being overly optimistic about Taj and Johnson. If they end up being starters, great, we'll have room for them, but in my opinion we cannot rely on this or even expect it.
To conclude, I believe our current roster allows us a great deal of flexibility for the next few years, as well as the ability to compete in a real way now. Rose looks like he's going to be real special, so why not surround him with some talent this year? We can get good value for some of our expiring contracts, future picks and Tyrus. We can probably have our cake and eat it too by staying flexible for 2010 and 2011 with some of the trades I've suggested above. Most years, trades of such value rely on the "gotcha" premise, but with the economic state of some NBA teams we can upgrade our team without committing to obscenely long and overpriced contracts.
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Philly would be open to trading Dalembert? Oh, do you think so, doctor? He has one of the worst contracts in the NBA.
Is he even better than Noah, from a talent standpoint?
Yeah i agree with everything but Dalembert....overall good post though
The Boozer deal is the one i really want done…even if he doesnt work out next yr we can just let him go and still have the cap space to make a push for a 2010 guy
CHICAGO MANE!!!!
by YEP on Jul 8, 2009 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions
No way to Dalembert
Miller could play until he’s 40 and still be better than Dalembert.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
Dalembert has no offensive game, I’ll keep the pick and pop shooter thank you very much
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jul 7, 2009 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I have heard that, but on the other hand,
he can actually hit a mid-range jumper once in a while; in other words, he doesn’t have the offensive limitations of Joakim Noah or, say, Tyson Chandler. He’s no Brad Miller when it comes to shooting, but he’s actually looked pretty good shooting that mid-range / short-range jumper once in a while.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
He can't pass or dribble
Near to Noah’s level though. Noah’s a better offensive player than Dalembert. Noah has no jumper sure, but is quick with the ball in the post and isn’t a terrible FT shooter to boot.
And Noah’s more consistent on defense and far cheaper.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
Yea, I can't see a legit argument favoring Sammy D.
Noah’s a perfect fit for run ‘n gun, and he’s a helluva lot cheaper than Dalembert.
First two: spot on...
Dalembert for Miller in a contract year? No chance in the seventh level of hell. That is just plain stupid. I’m sorry. Boozer plays well in a contract year, stays healthy, maybe we sign him. Maybe we upgrade to Bosh or STAT. Outlaw, Tim Thomas, Blake, Miller and Boozer comin’ of the Books with our core still intact (Rose, Deng, Salmons, Noah, Johnson & change) we could major upgrade and make a deep playoff run or compete for a ring with a D-Wade, or a Lebron as our new wing…I think a trade for Bosh or Boozer or Stoudamire would be a no brainer at this point. Too bad we let our best clutch shooter walk…
You saved me some breath
I’d take the first two deals with pleasure, but I’ll pass on Dalembert. Blake, Outlaw, and Boozer all make sense for the length of their contracts, and if they all stay healthy those trades would make the Bulls a deep team. As far as letting BG leave, I’m sure a lot of us are pissed, but what’s done is done, and it’s time to move forward.
We could get more for Miller
If we are gonna take back a non-expiring, we need to get more for Miller. Waaay more. Dalembert is not much better than Noah.
he's not ANY better than Noah.
I’d take Noah over Dalembert 100 times out of 100. This is just asinine.
The first two trades, while a little overplayed, are at least reasonable and have been talked about. HELL NO to Dalembert.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Jul 7, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree, Miller's expiring contract is great trade bait,
particularly since he still has plenty to offer on the court as well. And I also agree with RCG, Noah’s better and way cheaper than Dalembert.
Dalembert
is not that much better than Ben Wallace…1.5 years ago Ben Wallace….not Pistons glory Ben Wallace.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
Ok, but perhaps there is something there with Dalembert. If Philly is desperate to unload him, maybe we package Tim Thomas with Miller for Dalembert and a piece of value?
I couldn’t find any PER numbers on Dalembert, but I figured he would be more valuable to us than Miller, and his contract is basically the same one we took with Miller in the middle of last year (similar salary, 2 years remaining). Now Miller is expiring so he’s an asset. Dalembert would be an asset during 2010/11 as an expiring contract for a number of aging teams that aren’t quite cutting it.
I realize Miller is a very likable player, and he fit well with us last year (especially since we could dump Noc and pickup Salmons), but he’s really just a stop gap. We can’t play Miller when players like Howard or Shaq or even Brand and Perkins are the on court, we just lose way too much. Even if Rose improves and Salmons is a seamless fit, it’s not like those teams have weak guard play.
Last thought to redeem myself on the 3rd trade (since it’s really the only one of my own creation), what about going after a guy like Pryzbilla who has 2 years remaining on his contract at about 7 mil a year and trying to package something like Miller. Maybe we also take Outlaw and throw in a pick to entice Portland who would be getting about 5 million in cap relief next year + a pick to essentially swap Pryzbilla for Miller.
Dalembert posts a career 15.0 PER,
which is basically average. He’s pretty lousy on offense and I would rather have Noah starting with an offensive threat at PF than have him and Dalembert together.
Outlaw and Pryzbilla for Miller isn’t bad, and I do like Outlaw. I would hope we could use the Miller trade chip to more advantage, though. Here’s one that will probably get shot down in a hurry, but here goes anyway: Miller for Hakim Warrick and Marko Jaric’s ugly contract. Sure, we would have to pay Jaric about $7 mil next year and the one after, but he could be useful as a backup swingman, and I like the idea of Warrick and Noah together. The Grizzlies made a QO for Warrick recently, but he could walk the year after. I like him, but does anyone else have a say on the matter?
No trading Miller...
and his beautiful expiring contract unless it is part of a deal to bring in a all star type talent. I like Noah as our center of the future and don’t see anything out there we could possilbly get that would be much of an upgrade. Noah is what he is and he’s cool with being what he is…a good rebounding, defensive, energy guy who gives 100% all the time…he just needs to get bigger and stronger and I’ve heard he is.
I like his swag!
Dalembert is garbage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why would we take on a contract that evry other team in the league has passed on? They tried to give him away this summer and found no takers. That should be all that you need to know about Samwise Dalembert. Good work with the other two trades though.
completely agree
-it would also hurt our ability to sign a big name next year.
-and Noah is better or going to be better than him anyways.
One other note
I would honestly love to see the Bulls try to get Martell Webster from the blazers. I know he missed all of last season but he could be a cheap spot up shooter. The kid has got one of the sweetest looking j’s I have ever seen. Low risk move plus I hate fishdicks and the thing on his neck.
You know, Ray Allen isn't anything all that special these days...
…but he’s still good. And when, as a 25-year-old, the big excuse not to pay you is because he outperformed you in a playoff series (but only by a bit, and with a sore hamstring no less), that seems like a stretch to paint you a as an unworthy player.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
You had me
Unitl the Dalembert talk. He’s far worse than Brad Miller. Offers very little. Forced into a lot of playing time to get his rebounds, can do NOTHING else. I’ll talk old man Brad any day. Add in that Dalembert is locked for 2 more years and that’s really rough….the best thing about Miller (besides the fact that he’s still solid and would be worth the MLE if he weren’t on a bigger contract) is that he’s expiring, making his high salary all that much more valuable to our future….
But the other trades, sure.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
thank god other people agreed with the dalembert thing
first thing i thought of was “dalembert???”
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
Why not...
do none of those and keep the team as is.
dalembert is probably the last person I want on my team considering his contract
I would rather have michael sweetney
Yes to
1 and 2
and a big HELL NO to 3.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
meh
both get in foul trouble, Sam is better on offense, Tyson is better on defense, both are overpaid…it’s close to a wash.
If you put a gun to my head I’m taking Tyson first.
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
Chandler if healthy
Is far better, but when’s Tyson consistently healthy? Every 3 years?
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
If the Bulls want to really be players in 2010
as some here have tried to suggest, then option 1 or 2 would be great. I really don’t see Utah going for option 1 but you never know since they could just lose Boozer for nothing. I think number two makes sense for Portland and Chicago. It gives Portland a good compliment at the point to Roy and gives us a little more scoring punch in Outlaw and Blake is good backup. Plus more expiring money for next year. That’s if they are serious about 2010 (which I just don’t believe they are).
Yes only to trade 1
Even with Kirk we are going to have enough cap room to offer a max contract. Why does everyone want to trade him for absolutely nothing? Didn’t we just give up Ben Gordon for nothing? Why do that with Kirk? He is a good defender. A professional (didn’t bitch at all about being a backup after being a starter his whole career). He is overpaid for being a backup, yes. But that is not reason enough to dump him for cap space that we don’t really need. If by February it looks as if the Salary cap is going to drop to 50 million like reported recently, then yes, dump Hinrich. Otherwise we should hold onto him. Maybe a sign and trade for Wade? If Miami knows they are going to lose him, maybe they would want Ty Thomas, Kirk and a number 1. Who knows. But Travis outlaw is pretty useless with Deng and Salmons around. Rose isn’t the best defender, so it’s nice to have two quality defenders in Salmons and Hinrich to help him out in the backcourt.
The Dalembert trade has already been shot down numerous times and for good reason. I’d also like to say no to that Marko Jaric trade that was mentioned. Yikes.
It would be great to have a low post presence in Boozer, if even for 1 year. And it would allow us to get two marquee players on our team to pair up with Rose. Because we can resign our own guy (Boozer) and still offer a max contract to Wade. But if I’m Utah, then I am doing the Rip Hamilton trade. Because with Tyrus Thomas, they take the risk of losing him for nothing next year, and maybe they don’t care because they want to get under the lux tax. But Rip fits in perfectly with Utah. And it would make sense for the Pistons as well.
Pre-emptive action against the "Drone Army".
Why does everyone want to trade him for absolutely nothing? Didn’t we just give up Ben Gordon for nothing? Why do that with Kirk?
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jul 9, 2009 12:21 AM CDT up reply actions
hey, I just thought of something
the untradeable Rip Hamilton contract can be dealt for Dalembert!
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 8, 2009 4:37 PM CDT reply actions
:::please happen:::
I want to see the Pistons run their franchise into the ground as quickly as possible, so Hamilton for Dalembert is perfect.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Jul 8, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions
The Pistons would love Samuel Dalembert!
He’s worth $11,360,000! Using the Ben Gordon logic, since the Sixers signed him to a contract that pays him that much that means that he is worth that amount of money. I take back my criticism of Sam Dalembert, I had no idea this guy was worth that amount of money. He must be really really good. Like career averages of 8 points and 8 rebounds with 2 blocks good. At least now we know what to offer Tyrus Thomas. Can’t wait to see that turnaround fadeaway of his for the next five years at 50 million dollars. Sweet.
I think
Yes to trade 1, but I very much doubt Utah would agree to that.
Yes to trade 2, but I think the Bulls could squeeze out a bit more value. Maybe Portland throws in a draft pick?
Hell to the no for trade 3. I thought we wanted to free up cap space next year?
Hinrich: We wouldn’t be giving him away by any stretch. Outlaw would provide some solid offense for us, Blake would be a very reasonable backup PG and we’d free up about 9 million next season. Surely in these conditions we can get more value with 9 million next year than we could with Hinrich.
I do like Kirk, but for 9 million in this market you can do better. Not to mention Kirk doesn’t quite fit our team as well as he fits other teams (he can start at PG for many teams, for example and probably isn’t our ideal 2 guard with Rose), so we’re losing a bit of value the way we have to use him (3rd guard or out of position as a SG). If we didn’t have Rose, and say had a top caliber SG instead, I would not even think about trading Kirk.
I officially rescind trade 3. I had no idea Dalembert was that bad. I know it was kind of a soft field last year when he was the 2nd Center in the East at All Star time, but I had no idea he was such a poor player that people would prefer Miller to him. It sounds like we would need something like Igoudala + Dalembert for Miller + Tyrus + Salmons + fill in and/or future pick to make it good for us and I don’t see Philly trading Igoudala for anything less than a better player or equitable player with a better contract (Rondo sign + trade next year for Igoudala, for example). So I do apologize for throwing that one in there.
And to the few people that mentioned “why not keep it the same?” I think that is somewhat reasonable, but there is value to be had in this market and we have the perfect types of contracts to get that value. Furthermore, when you can surround your new young star with higher talent without paying a higher price you should do it. Additionally, we don’t really have a SG, we have a backup PG that makes 9 million this year and we basically have two talented SFs. Teams have stayed put with tougher roster situations, but this is VDN and it’s a soft market to get value in from the weaker teams. All that combined and I am thinking about making at least one medium sized move if I’m running the Bulls (all Dalembert jokes aside please).
I think one move with 2 teams could get us what were looking for
If we could get Boozer & Blake for Thomasand Hinrich we should do it. This would save us a lot of money over the long run and I think we would be getting the type of PF we have needed for a long time. Even a Hinrich for Fernandez would be worth thinking about we could really use another SG and some relief on the 10 mill we are paying Hinrich to come off the bench. I wrote a similar blog today check it out let me know what you all think.
http://www.blogabull.com/2009/7/9/943828/where-do-we-go-from-here

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