Particulars on Gordon's Pistons contract
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 3, 2009 3:43 PM CDT
104 comments
Chris McCosky of the Detroit News:
I have seen Ben Gordon's contract offer from the Pistons reported as high as $60 million. Unless there are some incentive clauses I don''t know about, the total value of the deal should fall just short of $55 million. He will start at $9 million next season.
PistonPowered figures with max raises this means the Gordon contract is (in millions): $9/$9.72/$10.44/$11.16/$11.88
In conclusion, the Bulls suck and next year doesn't matter.
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if vinny gets fired next season is considered a sucess in my eyes
by sin on Jul 3, 2009 3:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He'll just end up being replaced by a worse coach, on an even cheaper contract!
Chicago Bulls Blog and Forums. NBA Power Rankings.
by Andrew7 on Jul 3, 2009 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only reason they went cheap
is cuz they were still paying Skiles. That’s no longer the case.
by Playboy_Bull on Jul 3, 2009 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lalala
I love a basketball team that doesn’t love me back!
by SoulEater7 on Jul 3, 2009 3:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
THIS TEAM SUCKS!
How could any one support an organization of such imps, cut from fire licked granite by Satan’s smiths with the sole purpose of tormenting the existence of Bulls fans!?!
by McCabe on Jul 3, 2009 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
indeed.
adding those yearly salaries in my head yields a $52.2mil total. so ben didn’t even do as well as was assumed, if that cosky guy is correct.
by marionette on Jul 4, 2009 1:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know a lot of people are wishing him well in Detroit..
But I don’t really feel the same. I kinda want him to fail. lol Not that I don’t like him but that he’s a Piston and a freaking hate the Pistons.
by SoulEater7 on Jul 3, 2009 3:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I want them to be better than the Bulls
higher draft pick, Vinny to be fired. 2010!!!!!
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 3, 2009 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
Vinny will be fired next season regardless…..I hope. I mean we all know by now they just hired Vinny because they thought they would suck and that he was the only coach that would take the job and not go wacko(Doug).
Plus he was cheap blah blah blah… every time I think of the word cheap I think of JR and his 9 dollar super cut..with coupons and those glasses he’s had on since 1971. I bet he sleeps in those.
by SoulEater7 on Jul 3, 2009 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
every time I think of the word cheap I think of JR
Totally pictured Jim Ross first, but I suppose the “other” JR applies too.
It just annoys me that he went to the Pistons, a team in the division. I mean, that worked really well for Chicago when Bernard Berrian did it, right?
Is Clint Hurdle fired yet? YES
Is John Paxson fired yet?
Is Ralph Friedgen fired yet?
Is Vinny Del Negro fired yet?
Is Dan O' Dowd fired yet?
Is Jerry Angelo fired yet?
by ES46NE10 on Jul 4, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How bout better record?
good showing in the playoffs? Maybe better chance of landing a free agent who wants to play with rose >>> Lottery pick
Not saying it is, asking what you think.
http://irudey.mybrute.com/
Fun little Time waster!
by Rudey on Jul 3, 2009 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you really want this
then the Bulls should be doing a much bigger player/salary dump to at least find SOME young pieces they’ll keep 2010 and beyond…..(and that doesn’t include Tyrus either, toooo much baggage there)….basically Rose, Noah and the two young picks (who may not amount to anything, but that’s ok)….T-Mac trade makes sense here too……even if we can’t attract free agents, I’d rather go the OKC route of building year by year….
by RichKarp on Jul 3, 2009 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Better dump Rose and Noah on the last years of their rookie contracts too,
otherwise Reinsdorf will have to pay them a lot of money.
(Yeah, I’m bitter about let BG walk for nothing.)
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jul 3, 2009 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nd you run this blog?
Fuckn ridiculous. Fuck BG. He is not a star. Get it thru your thick ass skull.
by Playboy_Bull on Jul 3, 2009 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kind of harsh… but I agree, Ben isn’t a star, he isn’t an All-Star, and he never will be. I can’t remember how many times I’ve read or heard people bashing BG after one of his off balance last second shots, or his dribble out of a good shot to a tough shot, or his no defense, or his poor shot selection, or his quick shots… you’d think he was the greatest Bull ever by the reaction his departure is getting.
The only thing that ticks me off is if Ben wasn’t in the plans he should have been traded last season so they didn’t lose him for nothing.
by wiltfongjr on Jul 4, 2009 2:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a great idea
Why don’t we approach all our players like we approached Ben Gordon, except for our stars?
We can have ‘The Derrick Rose Experience: Featuring the D-League Extravaganza’!
Vinny Del Negro Offensive Gameplan, Part 1
-When there's less than 30 seconds left in the game, that's me with my hands cupped around my mouth yelling.
"BEN! SHOOT! SHOOOOTTTT!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO ME?!?"
-This segues nicely into my Timeout Management classes - order now!
by Prevenge on Jul 4, 2009 3:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was offered 50 million or more in two separate contracts, and HE turned it down…
He basically ended up with the same deal give or take a million, and he’s locked up even longer. If he had signed the deal the 1st time the Bulls offered it, he’d only have a few years left on the contract before he could test the free agent market, thus making himself an even bigger deal… Ben screwed himself.
I wish him well because he was a solid player, but I’m not mourning his loss or shunning the Bulls.
by wiltfongjr on Jul 4, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why do you care how Gordon screwed himself?
and the early extension would’ve kicked in a single year before this one.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 4, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't care...
He had his offers he turned them down, those are the facts.
NBA players, in order to maximize their money, need to get through contracts as quickly as possible so they can renegotiate new deals.
He’s the Pistons problem now, I cheered BG when he was a Bull, but he’s gone. I’m a Bulls fan not a BG fan.
by wiltfongjr on Jul 4, 2009 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
UM...
Hinrich got a contract, Deng got a contract, Nocioni got one – even Chandler got a contract – Gordon is the only one who didn’t resign. His fault, not ours.
by Playboy_Bull on Jul 4, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he turned down his contracts twice.
by SoulEater7 on Jul 4, 2009 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing you all are forgetting is that all these guys got paid and Gordon has been...
… a better NBA player than EVERY ONE OF THEM AND FELT HE SHOULD GET PAID BETTER THAN THEM!! So when Deng signed for 6yr/$72M, that’s what screwed the pooch right there. Hinrich getting close to $10M/yr a season or two earlier didn’t help, but Deng’s contract was the tipping point. Contract negotiations are like that in pro sports. Nothing personal, but it is what it is. Gordon figured why should he take less money than Deng when he’s been more productive and more reliable? It’s easy to sit here on this blog and make our $50k – $100k and get upset because a guy turned down $50M. But if you were in Gordon’s situation, you’d ask why you aren’t being offered the sort of deal Deng was offered too…especially when you’ve been the better pro.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jul 6, 2009 2:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gordon was a better pro???
Are you basing that purely on scoring average? He couldn’t pass, dribble, rebound, or defend!! He was one dimentional. At least when Deng is healthy he gives you an all around game. Noc could shoot, rebound, and defend. Hinrich put up solid numbers when he was given the minutes. But the bottom line is they all gave you something more than just points on the board. Sure points are nice, but ask Allen Iverson how well that worked out for him. This is a scrap year. Give the rookies playing time and experience with no pressure of needing to win. Then in 2010, after shedding some excess contracts, go out and sign one of the quality FA’s (Wade makes the most sense).
by luvs2drnk on Jul 8, 2009 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perfect example of why the Bulls are mediocre and still profitable.
NBA experts and most NBA fans outside of Chicago believe Gordon was the second Most Valuble Player on the Bulls last year. But I can see from these anti-Gordon posts, Bulls fans think they are smarter. No wonder Reinsdorf has been so profitable despite shipping out young budding stars. Well, Ha, Ha. I think both Gordon and Reinsdorf will have the last laugh next year. Good luck trying to sign Free Agents in 2010. This organization has a bad reputation. The Bulls may become the LA Clippers.
by sadafan on Jul 9, 2009 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reinsdorf gets the last laugh every year...
As for Gordon, he’s going to realize he passed up a good thing in Chicago. You can’t blame Chicago management for how this played out. They tried to re-sign him and he refused their offers, and it was decent money. Bottom line, Gordon thought he was worth more money than the Bulls offered, and someone was willing to overpay him. Don’t get me wrong, the management has been atrocious. Mainly not paying Jackson, which caused Jordan and Rodman to bolt. Pippen would have to but he was under contract. Trading Brand for two worthless rookies. Swapping Aldridge for Thomas and Sefelosha. But with what should be over 40 mil in cap space next year, and that’s even if the cap drops 8 mil, signing Wade and Bosh isn’t completely out of the question.
by luvs2drnk on Jul 22, 2009 3:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reinsdorf gets the last laugh every year...
As for Gordon, he’s going to realize he passed up a good thing in Chicago. You can’t blame Chicago management for how this played out. They tried to re-sign him and he refused their offers, and it was decent money. Bottom line, Gordon thought he was worth more money than the Bulls offered, and someone was willing to overpay him. Don’t get me wrong, the management has been atrocious. Mainly not paying Jackson, which caused Jordan and Rodman to bolt. Pippen would have too but he was under contract. Trading Brand for two worthless rookies. Swapping Aldridge for Thomas and Sefelosha. But with what should be over 40 mil in cap space next year, and that’s even if the cap drops 8 mil, signing Wade and Bosh isn’t completely out of the question.
by luvs2drnk on Jul 22, 2009 4:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why the Bulls annoy me
1) The team is so screwed up, I don’t know if I should hope the team is good next season. Would it be in their best interest to just suck and get a good lottery pick? I think it would be, but then that lessens the chance of any FA coming probably (what with the sucky team and all). So I don’t know if I even want them to win next season, and I blame Gar Paxdorf.
2) Unnecessary obnoxious lying for PR (“#1 priority”).
3) Having to wait for them to make a horrendous lopsided trade because they are convinced Ty Thomas needs to get moved at any cost.
by hitlesswonder on Jul 3, 2009 4:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
In fairness, perhaps Gordon was their #1 priority
With priority #2 being everyone else they’re not going to go out and make any attempt to sign.
by Sports2 on Jul 3, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yahoo NBA Rumors section
says the Pistons and Jazz are talking about a Rip for Boozer swap.
This is the source Yahoo links to.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jul 6, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any chance people will be done with all the venting by Summer League?
In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!
by wjb1492 on Jul 3, 2009 4:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
for me..
not until JR has sold this team.
by SoulEater7 on Jul 3, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we blow 2010 deals
I’m through with the Bulls until new ownership is in place.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jul 6, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to boycott the 2012 celebration at Grant Park because of this
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 3, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hell NO!
Will we get Dante and Galante doing the broadcasts again? That at least would be something to look forward to.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jul 3, 2009 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're not doing the Orlando league this year
Or Magic Pepsi League, whatever they officially call it.
In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!
by wjb1492 on Jul 3, 2009 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's pretty stupid to have a summer league with only 8 teams if you ask me
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jul 3, 2009 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boo!
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jul 3, 2009 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I might just be done by Summer League. Done period.
I haven’t seen any sort of logical plan out of this team for well over a year. There’s a lot of better stuff I could be doing with my time.
by Sports2 on Jul 3, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The last logical move the Bulls did was drafting Rose.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jul 3, 2009 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know we're just bitching around here
But Paxton made some great trades mid-season.
by tuluse on Jul 3, 2009 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"You bet your ass I did!"
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Jul 3, 2009 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
PLEASE!
We got knocked out in the first round…
always a great contribution.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 8:33 AM PST
by hhirb on Jul 4, 2009 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because we were a mediocre team
That doesn’t change the fact that Paxton turned Larry Hughes and Nocioni into better players who’s deals expired for the 2010 offseason.
by tuluse on Jul 4, 2009 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Congratulations! Because you're my biggest supporter, you've just won a free CD, by me! Enjoy!"
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Jul 5, 2009 1:14 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
I don't think Paxton is some kind of great GM
In fact he needed to make trades because of the mess he got us in. Look at the trades in a vacuum and they are very nice deals for the Bulls.
by tuluse on Jul 5, 2009 1:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"I thought we were friends! This means war!"
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Jul 5, 2009 1:33 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
I know I usually delete large images in the comments
but this was too good.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 5, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know I'll take heat
but if they’d really had built the team right, Beasley was actually the better fit. He slotted right in as a scoring big. Rose was a really odd pick in some ways, it was like a rebuild pick for a team that was already built…too bad what they’d “built” wasn’t as good as we’d hoped, maybe they knew something (about Deng, Tyrus, BG-leaving) before we thought they did…..
by RichKarp on Jul 3, 2009 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rose > Beasley
Plus I think everyone here is tired of Chicago guys being stars for other franchises and Beasley has shown to be a bit immature from the start.
by Playboy_Bull on Jul 3, 2009 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're kind of right.
In terms of positional need, Beasley was clearly a better fit than Rose. The Bulls have sorely lacked inside scoring for a while, and Hinrich is an adequate PG. However, if you draft for positional need over talent, you’re screwing yourself long-term.
by Poloplaya14 on Jul 3, 2009 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
when your team sucks you take the best available
not to mention that rose’s chicago angle gets more people to watch. beasley is probably available in a trade because wade is not thrilled playing with him. that tells me we probably didn’t miss out on much.
by Stay Chisel on Jul 3, 2009 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
beasley is available to trade most likely because hes a project
and the heat need to win now to keep dwade there
by sin on Jul 4, 2009 3:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beasley will be playing the 3 for the Heat
I don’t think he fulfilled a need. When you are drafting that high, you take the best player available. You don’t pass on what you think is a superstar to get inside scoring.
by Basketball Smurf on Jul 4, 2009 1:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully Beasley will play the 3 this season,
instead of being undersized at the 4 with limited minutes behind Haslem.
by Ariel112 on Jul 4, 2009 2:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm not venting just because Gordon is gone
Is it wrong to question if the organization has an actual plan? There seems to be no direction. The Bulls are the most profitable franchise in the league, sit in the 3rd largest market, and the team is run like we’re the Sacramento Kings. I’m sick of people excusing this organizations unwillingness to spend money. I expect the Bulls to try improve the team every summer. Not attempt to save money. Which is all they basically did here.
by Basketball Smurf on Jul 4, 2009 1:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BREAKING NEWS
Seems that Toronto got a new (good) friend for Bosh, could mean he’ll be staying. Welcome home Hedo!
by koolaje on Jul 4, 2009 3:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, there goes my hopes of the Bulls sending Deng to Toronto in a deal for Bosh.
Unless Colangelo sees Hedo playing the 4 the way Rashard Lewis does in Orlando.
Otherwise, the Bulls have just been dealt a major blow in the Chris Bosh sweepstakes. Plus I’m seeing that Miami is still trying to put a package together (that includes Beasley) to send to Toronto for Bosh. What do the Bulls have now? Wait, the Bulls can trade Ben Gordon/Tyrus Thomas…. oh yeah, no Ben Gordon to use as a trade piece.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jul 6, 2009 2:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hedo at the 2?
Unlikely, but he’d be better than Deng at the 2.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jul 6, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Back away from the ledge
I think everyone needs to chill out about not signing BG. There have been many deals (and deals that didn’t happen) by the Bulls that have been head scratchers, but this one isn’t. Rose will develop better with a 2 like Salmons. We all know Rose is the best player on the team, so now the team is completely delivered to him. The points “lost” by BG’s departure will be made up probably by several players. To quote Dan Berstein, “Ben Gordon represents NBA hell.” He’ll get you into the playoffs, but as one of the top 3 players on a team will he get the Bulls into a championship contender? NEVER
He wasn’t worth the $11 million (on average) a year. Don’t compare the other contracts that the Bulls have made in the past to the current roster. What’s done is done. They still maintain the cap flexibility for next year, and gives them the ability to pull another stellar midseason trade.
With that being said, take a deep breath and come back off the ledge. There’s a lot to look forward to next season.
by Mobile Gary on Jul 4, 2009 6:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
38-44 and a late lottery pick. Oh yeah (not).
There’s a lot to look forward to next season.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jul 4, 2009 7:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously?
You think they’re going to be that bad? I highly doubt they can do any worse than last year’s 41-41.
by Mobile Gary on Jul 4, 2009 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The loss of Gordon will offset the improvement of Rose and Noah.
When Deng inevitably gets hurt, the option will be to move Salmons to the 3, leaving Hinrich to start and Nelson and/or Roberson to play 20-25 minutes. Or JJ can start at the 3, then TiT or LJ III plays 20-25 minutes. Not a winning combination.
Furthermore, most of the teams except the bottom feeders in the EC will be as good or better than last year.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jul 4, 2009 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guard Play
I highly doubt Nelson and Roberson will get any burn. If they do, I recant my statement that they’ll finish better than 41-41.
by Mobile Gary on Jul 4, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Better hope the Bulls stay injury free then.
On the other hand, Demarcus Nelson might be the second coming of Chris Duhon, in which case he can run the reserve unit without it being a disaster. Too early to tell, however.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jul 4, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree...
What’s done didn’t have to be done. I don’t want to hear about what BG wasn’t worth when the organization has been paying players more than what they are worth for the last few years. This is why we are in the position we’re in. This is how you give up your most consistent and leading scorer for nothing.
Also I don’t see how you assume that Rose will develop better with Salmons. I never get a complete answer to this question: If BG had his most consistent year as a Bull and Rose won ROY with BG as the other guard, then how can people assume that Rose and BG didn’t play well together? You want to know who didn’t fit with Rose? A jump shooting, no 3pt shooting, non-athletic, injury prone small foward. And that’s the guy the Bulls gave the money to. You know who else won’t play as well with Rose? 2-guards that don’t demand a double team and can’t consistently hit a spot-up jumper. That’s Hinrich and Salmons.
As for your last point about the Bulls having a lot to look forward to… Have you looked at what’s happening in the East? Orlando is better, Clevland is better, Toronto just got better and maybe just pacified Bosh enough for him to stay. What did we do? We gave away our best over the last 5 yrs for NOTHING. This is what everybody is upset about. There’s no plan here. Heck we don’t even know who’s really running the team right now. So what now? Sit and pray that we can get Wade? If the Bulls were smarter at evaluating their own talent they would’ve never overvalued the wrong players, they could’ve gave BG his money, and still been in a position to make a move in 2010.
by Dils on Jul 4, 2009 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
Recc'ed, since I agree on all points.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jul 4, 2009 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Orlando got better
They not only lose Hedo, Gortat is also reportedly on his way out. I’m not sure they’re a ton worse, either, but that doesn’t matter. It’s irrelevant what Boston, Cleveland and Orlando do, because they were better than the Bulls to start with and were going to finish ahead of the Bulls this season in almost any scenario you can come up with.
I happen to think the team will be competitive this year, although it does depend on injuries (as it does with every team when a quality starter may not make it through the season). Leaving out the big 3 who were better from the get go, I think the Bulls are still unquestionably better than the Knicks, Bucks, Nets, and Pacers. Atlanta and Philly have big free agency questions. Detroit is a huge question mark, but I don’t think they’ll have a great season, especially if they don’t find something realistic for inside. Washington has as many injury issues as the Bulls do with Luol. I do think Charlotte and Toronto will be better, but I’d put them right around the Bulls and not significantly over. The team will be different without Ben, but I’m interested to see what that looks like.
So, I’m frustrated with the org for not being willing to even consider the tax (apparently – I’ll believe JR would pay it for a contender when I see it), and I wish Ben would have resigned. I think the team would be a few wins better with him than without, and I would have liked to see what they could do building off of last year. But I’m not seeing the season of hell that some of you are predicting – there’s still a lot of talent on the team, and I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt heading into the season. Basketball is my fun thing in life, and if I were as miserable and angry as many of you seem to be it would cease to be that.
In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!
by wjb1492 on Jul 4, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Toronto got better!
Not Orlando or Cleveland. I want the Bulls to tank next season for the lottery. They need assets.
by SoulEater7 on Jul 4, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you serious?
They’ve been accumulating “assets” for years now…and just let one get away from nothing. I’m sick of the Bulls being in the lottery. They could have kept this “asset” they just moved and used him as part of a trade for a STAR. After all, that’s what they said the plan was. Accumulate “assets” to use as part of a trade for STARS. I hope they don’t continue treating their assets like they treated Gordon (who was easily the most valuable asset besides Derrick Rose who WILL NOT be moved obviously).
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jul 6, 2009 3:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one said we're miseable
At least im not:) This is a place where we can complain and vent and that’s what we’re here doing. I don’t disagree with much you said but a shorter way of describing what you stated is that they are still a still a middle of the pack team while several other teams got better. All the while there still isn’t a clear plan for this team.
by Dils on Jul 4, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My apologies then
You sound so cheerful and optimistic in your post, I don’t know how I mistook it for anything else. ;)
In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!
by wjb1492 on Jul 4, 2009 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn Dils, tell em!!
I’m wit you on this one.
As for the worth thing, I count about 7 players who make less money than Gordon now makes who can be considered better.
1. Danny Granger (escalating contract will pay him more than Gordon’s in another year or two)
2. Devin Harris (got $9M/yr deal when he was with Dallas and not as productive as Gordon)
3. Stephen Jackson
4. Ron Artest
5. Jameer Nelson (was not an all-star caliber player when he signed for about $6.5M/yr)
6. Corey Maggette (when healthy and engaged, he can be lethal)
7. David West (this one is debatable)
But there are SO many guys who make more money than Gordon’s $11M/yr average who are not as good as BG. I can think of one in particular but I won’t even get into it. But you are completely right though Dils.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jul 6, 2009 2:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do people keep saying Gordon wasn't worth $11M? Based on guys making about that much, he is.
There are only about 7 guys who are better than Gordon (and no longer on their rookie contracts) who make less than him.
1. Danny Granger (escalating contract will top Gordon’s in 2 years)
2. Ron Artest
3. David West
4. Devin Harris (signed for about $9M/yr BEFORE breaking out in NJ)
5. Jameer Nelson (wasn’t an all-star when he signed for about $6.5M/yr)
6. Stephen Jackson
7. Corey Maggette (when healthy he can be downright lethal)
And let’s be honest. Maggette and David West are debatable. Neither is THAT much more valuable than Gordon. Maggette because he’s hurt a lot and West, although he plays hard, just doesn’t go for much more than 19 and 8…which is good but not great.
Great players make in the $14 – 15+ million range. Gordon won’t see that. His contract tops out at $12M when he’ll be 30 yrs old.
ON THE OTHER HAND, there are SEVERAL guys who make more than Gordon who are nowhere near as valuable or as productive as Gordon is. Try that argument on for size.
The question you guys should be asking is whether Hinrich and Deng were worth what they got. To this point, that answer is a resounding no. And the truth is, if either of them (Hinrich, Deng, Gordon) was going to be paid big money that guy should have been Gordon and it’s been evident all along. The Bulls would have done much better to jettison Deng and Hinrich for salary purposes and hold onto Gordon and have him remain as a piece moving forward. Funny though how people are upset with Gordon for getting $11M/yr and are calling it “star” money when they defend Deng getting $12M/yr and justify it by saying that 3rd best players get that kind of money. Last I checked, $12M is more than $11M…and Gordon will be the 3rd best player on a championship team someday (that team should have been the Bulls down the road though).
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jul 6, 2009 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Orlando is gonna be just as good as last year. Hedo is overrated in my opinion, he can make plays but he tries to do too much a lot and often forces shots even if he’s ice cold.
Cleveland improved slightly, I don’t think Shaq will help much but he won’t hurt. They still need more size in the backcourt.
Philly will be just as good as they were last year
Boston will be the same if KG is at least 90% and they may get Sheed as a backup
Washington has more talent than us, if they stay reasonably healthy, they will make the playoffs
Hell even Indiana and Charlotte were improving.
I don’t see how we are improving at all, Rose will probably put up 20 pts/8 assists, Salmons will fall off a little, Kirk will do Kirk things, play D and hit and sometimes miss open 3s.
Our season is predicated on Loul being healthy and returning to 2006 form and Tyrus pitching in around 14 pts/8 boards. And Noah getting one post move so he can pitch in 10 points a night.
I think we will be around 40-44 wins…nothing more and nothing less
No one has talked about defense at all. That’s the true key. If we even played middle of the road D, we would have won 50 games last year. I hope they practice defensive drills for over 60% of practice time, the rest should be forming ACTUAL offensive sets. Rose/Tyrus pick and rolls where he drives all the way to the basket. Give and go between Rose and Noah. Pinbacks and backdoor cuts for Deng. If we get a real offense, then I think we can replace Ben’s iso scoring.
Enough of this playground ish, Vinny. And no more lottery picks, we don’t need that.
by C Smoove on Jul 4, 2009 2:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
umm, Allen Iverson?
The Answer can more than reproduce Gordon’s output. And honestly, I don’t think AI has ever played on a team with a true star at the PG position.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
by tandur on Jul 4, 2009 3:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Because Iverson usually thinks he is that star PG
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 4, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You think BG is a ballhog, eh ...
Vinny Del Negro Offensive Gameplan, Part 1
-When there's less than 30 seconds left in the game, that's me with my hands cupped around my mouth yelling.
"BEN! SHOOT! SHOOOOTTTT!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO ME?!?"
-This segues nicely into my Timeout Management classes - order now!
by Prevenge on Jul 5, 2009 12:18 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
LMAO!!!
I hope C Smoove wasn’t one of the guys complaining about Gordon holding the ball to long…LOL.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jul 6, 2009 3:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If there's anything you could do to stunt Rose's development
It would be sticking him with Iverson as a backcourt mate. At this stage in his career, he’s a sixth man. He dominates the ball way too much and kills the flow of most offenses — granted the Bulls hardly had an offense last year, but anyways — and Rose needs the ball in his hands all the time.
by Ben R on Jul 5, 2009 4:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually
during Allen Iverson’s best year, 2000, when he took the 76ers to the Finals, AI did not handle the ball as much as everyone claims. Eric Snow and Aaron McKie were valuable ball handlers who set up Larry Brown’s brilliant offense (I wish the Lakers ran this offense for Kobe, honestly.) of running AI off of countless screens till he finally got open and put up a sweet jumper.
I could see a system like this working in Chicago.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
by tandur on Jul 6, 2009 1:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know who that system would work well with?
Ben Gordon.
What did we do with him? Not ‘put him in iso until the crows came home’ was it? Oh, it was.
Maybe in 2010, but it wouldn’t happen while Vinny’s coaching, unless he traded brains with a good coach or something.
Vinny Del Negro Offensive Gameplan, Part 1
-When there's less than 30 seconds left in the game, that's me with my hands cupped around my mouth yelling.
"BEN! SHOOT! SHOOOOTTTT!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO ME?!?"
-This segues nicely into my Timeout Management classes - order now!
by Prevenge on Jul 6, 2009 3:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ya know... that's just not true at all.
You can check your theory against “facts” here. 2nd highest usage of his career. Lowest assist% of his career. I think “everyone” else is right, and you don’t really know.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jul 6, 2009 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
usage vs. assists
usage does not mean initiator, the primary ball handler, or the point guard. It’s a stat to track how many times the player, with the ball in his hands, does something that can be tracked. Makes/Misses a shot, passes for an assist, makes a turnover.
If you compare his assist ratio that year, it’s one of his lowest of his early career. Why? Because AI that year was heavily involved in off ball screens, with the pass coming from Snow or McKie. He was NOT the initiator.
I know this because I scouted the 76ers heavily that season as they tore the league up from opening day.
This is a problem with the stat-geeks. I love my stats, but they do not tell you how the season went down, how each game was played out, etc. They give you windows, but never the whole story. You need to watch the games to know what really went down.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
by tandur on Jul 6, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish that was in a year closer to now, because 82games.com has a stat that tracks that.
Alas, they only have 2002-2003 and onwards. AI has a 43% AST rate on ‘02-’03 that drops like a weighted rock to around 24% and fluctuates between there and 35%.
Vinny Del Negro Offensive Gameplan, Part 1
-When there's less than 30 seconds left in the game, that's me with my hands cupped around my mouth yelling.
"BEN! SHOOT! SHOOOOTTTT!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO ME?!?"
-This segues nicely into my Timeout Management classes - order now!
by Prevenge on Jul 7, 2009 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Denver traded AI because JR Smith and Carmelo Anthony were following him around like a couple of wolves in the pack
AI will not improve our team. He will not help in the development of Rose.
We need to make sure AI stays far away from the Bulls.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jul 6, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now they're talking to Jannero
obviously, there was no preparation here. Draft two forwards when you’re about to lose your leading scorer at shooting guard and then talk with Jannero!
The ONLY
always a great contribution.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 8:33 AM PST
by hhirb on Jul 5, 2009 5:52 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I like your spin on it
Gar is probably still asking himself if James Johnson is going to play the 4.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jul 6, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The ONLY thing left from the last eight or ten years
is a lucky ping-pong ball!
always a great contribution.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 8:33 AM PST
by hhirb on Jul 5, 2009 5:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Eight top 4 picks in ten years,
and all the Bulls really have to show for it is Rose and Noah (since Noah’s pick came from trading Curry).
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jul 5, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And bless his heart
Noah is no better today than average. This is really a joke!
always a great contribution.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 8:33 AM PST
by hhirb on Jul 5, 2009 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Better than the Elton Brand draft!
Elton for Chandler, Chandler for PJ Brown, which ended up in cap space used for Bum Wallace, Wallace for Hughes, and Hughes for Tim Thomas, Roberson and Jerome James. Ugh!
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jul 5, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We can't compare against our own mistakes.
To win the title (which is what the fan is after in contrast to the ownership) we have to compare our team to the Celtics, Lakers, Magic, Cav’s, etc., and we’re now significantly worse than we were at the end of the year when we lost in the first round. Don’t forget, Boston didn’t have KG.
Very little hope here… Football camps are about to open…
always a great contribution.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 8:33 AM PST
by hhirb on Jul 5, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bosh is probably not going anywhere...
And our second best player is CAP SPACE!
always a great contribution.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 8:33 AM PST
by hhirb on Jul 5, 2009 8:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
2 and 3 next season
2 – Salmons
3 – Deng
What kind of crap are we going to be when one of these two ends up missing 15 games?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jul 6, 2009 10:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Are you ready for the James Johnson experience?
Vinny Del Negro Offensive Gameplan, Part 1
-When there's less than 30 seconds left in the game, that's me with my hands cupped around my mouth yelling.
"BEN! SHOOT! SHOOOOTTTT!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO ME?!?"
-This segues nicely into my Timeout Management classes - order now!
by Prevenge on Jul 7, 2009 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bad contracts are bad
coming from a blazer fan who saw a over 30 year-old theo ratliff get a 5 year contract, darius miles get 5 years 49 mil and zach randolph get a max deal for max years. bad contracts suck, good call on not giving the guy so much money
by StocktonNEP on Jul 9, 2009 8:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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