Sam Smith weekend post (team news)
[From the fanshots. Lots of stuff from Sam in this, with quotes from Gar and VDN. The Bulls GM says the roster is pretty much set, with Aaron Gray the likely 13th (and final) man on the roster. Though despite their intentions, neither Gar nor Vinny have me exactly 'excited' for the season. I suppose that's an obvious drawback to a tread-water season. -ed]
Interesting tidbits about a lot of topics ranging from Boozer, D Lee, the starting lineup (VDN says its not set!) and Jo Noah and his work with the french team. So, we did engage in discussions about Boozer and Lee? Haha either Sam is covering for the franchise (entirely possible) or they were leaving him in the dark (less likely but hilarious).
over 2 years ago
Chi 'Till I Die
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It seems like the Bulls are through for the time being.....
I like the guard rotation of Rose, Hinrich and Salmons with spot minutes for Pargo.
A forward core of Deng, Thomas, Gibson and Johnson is very good… provided the rookies produce.
Noah and Miller at center is a no brainer and also a very good rotation.
I like the team. Hopefully we can get a 2010 free agent, but the move should be a tweek move and not a blow up move. This is a young team and I think with experience the Bulls will be fine.
A few points that impressed me was that Deng has gain 10 to 20 pounds of muscle which will put him at 235 to 240 LBS which is impressive.
Jo is looking beastly from what I saw in the French Team Thread. He could very well be at 250.
They said that Rose looks bigger to so he should be at or over 200 pounds and has not lost a step of quickness….with an improved jumper and leadership. Rose is going to be tough to handle next year and I expect him to be the Captain of the team. Rose may be the only Olympian in the team and he should now take the mantle of leadership for the Bulls. Rose seems to be preparing to do this. I am especially impress with hearing that he is more vocal, but at the same time displaying unselfishness.
I like the versatility of our Forwards. Johnson, Deng and Tyrus are interchangable and I think will cause major match-up problems…..and then Taj can be thrown in as well.
If Noah works on a few moves in the post to go along with his conditioning then we have something special in the making.
The Bulls should be right behind Olando, Cleveland and Boston it is not far fetched to envision a 4th or 5th seed with this team…..call me crazy, but we will see.
by Bart71 on Jul 25, 2009 10:46 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Good points. I do see the arrow pointing up for a number of reasons:
1)Salmons and Miller all season
2)Hinrich and Deng healthy and we just need them to hit their career averages
3) Noah and TT getting stronger. I’m talking adult strength when a person reaches age 23/24.
4) Coaches and players have 1 year under their belts
5) Rose seems to be a transcendent star on the rise. All signs point to top 5 player in the league.
6) Depth. Other than Rose, we can weather any injuries until that player comes back.
I really, really want TT to succeed. His offensive skills are better than people realize. He just needs more time executing what his mind wants him to do and what his body can do. He has to improve his court awareness thru constant repetition.
I like our guard rotation is Pargo plays no minutes
Vinny Del Negro: Possibly the most unintentionally irritating last name in the history of last names [Hint: I can't for the life of me pronounce it correctly].
-Brandon Jennings: PG of the future!
Deng has "put on 10-12lbs of good weight, muscle"
That’s interesting. I’ve always used to try and make the case he should do this and go in the direction of being a David West type 4 instead of a 3 (or as the Bulls almost laughingly tried to do, a 2).
Of course, that’s before I found out his body was made of silly string and might not be capable of carrying the extra weight, but I’m gonna hope for the best either way.
I predict pulled groin by the 3rd game of the circus trip
James Johnson starts and plays like the 2008 Andres Nocioni, Bulls fans cream themselves, Deng is traded for Jason Richardson by the All-Star break.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 25, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
ABOUT TIME!!
It’s seemed for the longest that Ben Gordon was the only Bull who lifted weights (at least until Hinrich started to). I always felt that Deng could become a more complete player if he worked out and got stronger. It would enable him to get his 6’9" ass on the block from time to time and give the Bulls a post threat.
Let’s see how this works out.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jul 25, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions
An trail of reports on Deng's injuries could be helpful
Deng had had mild pain in his right shin for more than three weeks when he jumped for a rebound Feb. 28 against Houston and felt a sharp, stabbing pain. X-rays taken at halftime raised concern among Bulls doctors that Deng had a stress fracture in his right tibia, and he sat for the second half.
Source: 03/09/2009; Chicago Tribune
His skills look like a long term David West, but the wrist, the stress fracture, and the back don’t look like a past I’d move him to PF.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jul 25, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
What about Augustine, Sam?
Am I the only one who saw him in SL, was impressed, and wants him on the roster over Gray?
I liked Augustine and I think they should have taken him over Gray that center rotation of Augustine
Miller and Noah would have been tight and with Miller not getting resigned Augustine would have been a good back up for Noah.
Augustine can’t play center in the NBA. He would get crushed. He’s like 6’8" 225 lbs. I don’t care if Wiki lists him as 6’10" 235. That’s not legit. Come on now.
Gray can't play. That's a fact. If you want him you're basically saying you want a giant white speed bump to cheer from the bench. Because that is all he does.
Miller is an old man and he is lighter on his feet than Gray. I’d prefer to have Augustine if picking between the two. He might actually be able to contribute even if he can’t compete with Gray’s speed bump abilities.
I still can hardly believe we are going into year three with Gray. Ranks right up there with Pargo Revisited.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
of course Gray can't play.
But he has size when needed against big centers, for 5-8 minutes. What makes you think Augustine can play?
He looked fantastic in summer league- and I was NEVER a fan before.
He went to europe last year and really worked on his game- he was quick, he was really agile, and he had a great tough with both hands around the hoop. He snagged rebounds, he hustled, his shot looked good… and I don’t care if he’s shorter than Gray. I wouldn’t even mind having him play PF a little, but as the 13th guy, I would take him 100%, no questions asked, over Gray.
"he looked fantastic in summer league"
famous last words
He did look good though.
Especially in that first game.
by JockstrapNoah on Jul 28, 2009 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I absolutely do want a giant dorky white guy as our cheerleader.
It gives me hope, dammit
We should get a 6-foot-nothing PG as our cheerleader
More hope!
Vinny Del Negro: Possibly the most unintentionally irritating last name in the history of last names [Hint: I can't for the life of me pronounce it correctly].
-Brandon Jennings: PG of the future!
Would Augustine cost any less than Gray?
Augustine lacks athleticism to play the 4. He plays very flat footed and doesn’t have the height to make up for it. I know he wants to play in the NBA, but I think his size and game are suited for Europe.
If he had more range with his shot he’d have better chances of playing in the NBA.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jul 25, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not sure if you watched summer league, but I was shocked at how athletic he looked and thought his shot looked good...
And yes, I’m pretty sure he’s cost less than Gray.
Goddamn I'm ready for the season. :)
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
This is such shit
The deadline passed Thursday for the Bulls to lift their qualifying offer to Gray. So it seems they are intent on bringing him back and it isn’t likely he gets a bigger offer with few teams going beyond 13-player rosters or spending more free agent dollars.
"We basically have the core of the team that finished last year with some pretty good depth and feel the two rookies can help us."
Yeah….basically the same core…..nothing important is missing form last year’s core…..nothing….
Chicago Bulls Blog and Forums. NBA Power Rankings.
by Andrew7 on Jul 25, 2009 12:34 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Deng didn't finish the season.
Salmons played SF, we are missing our star SG, and Tyrus got benched. So no, it really isn’t the guys doing what they did to finish the year besides Rose. It will be a guy playing an entirely new position (Salmons), a guy coming back from not playing for over half a year (Deng), a guy apparently fighting for a spot in the starting lineup (Tyrus), and a guy who has pissed the organization off by playing for his home country (Noah). That with the whole starting lineup not being sorted out yet…woo! I love how we half-ass it coming out of the gate every year. Remember last year when early on Gray and Thabo started? I guess at least we won’t have to wonder if our leading scorer will start or not.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
Just wait..."Starting lineup not set..."
I can only assume that means they are looking at Kirk as a possible starter with Rose taking on the Gordon sixth-man-that-should-start role.
by hitlesswonder on Jul 25, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow
That’s pessimistic way of looking at things, even for BaB!
You must have not been born yet
when we swept Miami, was pegged to be a conference contender, and then laid a giant egg the next season. When you live through that any optimism has to be earned. I am tired of looking at a hodgepodge team and having people tell me it is all going to work out fine and we’ll be awesome when in reality the stars have to be aligned for that to happen. We pretty much have to have an injury free career year for most of our guys to stay in line with last season. Let me get out the party hats and kazoos for you.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
uh
Welcome to Life???
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Again
VDN is just “making shit up” as he goes.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jul 25, 2009 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
A language you speak fluently I'm sure...
Sorry couldn’t resist.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Jul 25, 2009 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions
If you can do it
and that’s what you’re paid to do I wouldn’t have any complaints.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jul 25, 2009 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions
He's a great communicator!
Making shit up is why he was hired in the first place!
by JockstrapNoah on Jul 25, 2009 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Bulls averaged 42 wins a year in Ben’s career as our top scorer. You’re gonna give him 60 million? Where were we going with him? Career playoff shooting percentage of 40%. 38% from the 3pt line (pretty good). And a lot of empty points from BG.
I understand we had no inside threat, and you can’t tie wins in a season to one player. But he was our “leader” who did jack squat defensively. So stop crying like we just let go Lebron.
by Trey23 on Jul 25, 2009 1:25 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
When did she call him a star?
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Jul 25, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I did say "star SG"
I didn’t say all star or anything like that because obviously no Bull is an all star. Most teams do have star players though. I am not sure why anyone would take offense at that but this is the internet after all. You don’t need a license.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
I've seen Luol Deng called a star and...
…I’d definitely call Gordon a star before calling Deng one and they gave Deng $72M with up to $80M with incentives. Gordon is long gone but this type of talk is my problem with the Gordon bashing. Gordon shot 40% because of the type of shots he ended up having to shoot. Because after all, until Rose got here (and besides that Miami series 3 yrs ago) nobody else would take tough shots and Gordon got most of the defensive attention. It was really evident in the Boston series. Besides, Chauncey Billups shoots 41% for his career in the playoffs but can you deny that the talent surrounding him has been immensely better than the talent surrounding Gordon? I don’t think so. Gordon is legit and you know it.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jul 25, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Great post
I keep dreaming about Wade and Rose in the same backcourt.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jul 25, 2009 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think anyone is worried about paying the incentives.
by Sports2 on Jul 25, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd
Even I can’t deny that. If Luol does get paid incentives, that means either personal or team success, and i’m not going to be crying about that. There’s way this team wins without Luol doing great as presently constructed.
JJ isn’t ready to be anything other than a backup right now.
So you'd say the Bulls have no star players then, right?
Because it sure isn’t Deng or Hinrich and Rose doesn’t fit your qualifications either. I guess we can say that Gray and Rose are basically the same player because neither has won more than 42 a year.
I’d say last year Rose and Gordon were our star players and Noah was a rising talent. The rest of the team was the supporting cast.
I never even mentioned BG’s name in my post. Why you picking that little bit out and making a rant about it? Seems you have issues about a guy that isn’t even on our team anymore. Get over BG, kid. Not everything is about him.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
I don't get you anti-BG people.
Or at least your arguements. You say BG isn’t our leader, he’s a loner, he’s a ballhog (all scorers are), and now you blame him and say he was the leader.
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Jul 25, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions
If we want to blame "leaders" of our team
we can “blame” captains Kirk and Deng for the last few years if those are the rules we have to follow. BG was never voted captain. He’s just one of the few good enough to stick his neck out there get the blame. Guys that fade to the background typically avoid the blame. The trick is not to suck too much and also not to matter too much. Hopefully the team leaders won’t teach Rose that trick and Rose takes after BG instead.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
Over the past 3 years.....
23 players have averaged at least 18.6 PPG on at least 55.8 TS%.
Ben Gordon is one of those players. Out of those 23 players, Gordon is 13th in scoring and 19th in TS%. If you average everyone’s PPG/TS% ranks together, you end up with the following rankings for best scorers in the league based on PPG/TS%
1. Amare Stoudemire
2. Kevin Martin
3. Yao Ming
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Kobe Bryant
6. Lebron James
7. Chris Bosh
T-8. Paul Pierce
T-8. Dwight Howard
T-10. Dwyane Wade
T-10. Ray Allen
12. Michael Redd
T-13. Chris Paul
T-13. Pau Gasol
15. Gilbert Arenas
16. Carlos Boozer
T-17. Danny Granger
T-17. Rashard Lewis
T-17. Corey Maggette
20. Ben Gordon
21. Richard Jefferson
22. Tim Duncan
23. Kevin Garnett
So the 20th best scorer in the NBA isn’t something to worryaboutlosing? Look at what those other 22 players are getting paid. If the Bulls don’t want to pay a top 20 scorer $11 milion a year (or $9 million a year even the year before!!!), then they shouldn’t be in the business of professional basketball, because that’s what those players cost.
It’s not like we lost Lebron, but it’s significant. We will probably just end up signing Joe Johnson (he didn’t seem to make this list…..tsk, tsk) who is a marginal upgrade at best on Gordon, and then our cpa space will be completely gone.
What would be better? Keeping Gordon and then trading for Amare Stoudemire (#1 on this list) or Carlos Boozer (#16 on this list). This also means kissing Tyrus good by this summer (if we want to keep Tyrus, then we won’t even get a Joe Johnson!!!).
The point being, because the cap shrunk, 2010 doesn’t make sense as a viable plan for building a championship team. When the 2010 talk was starting, there were salary cap estimates of around $64 million. Now there are estimates of the cap being $52 million.
I just don’t see how going from Ben Gordon to Joe Johnson, while not leveraging your 2009 MLE (and you would have a 2010 MLE as well since you’d be over the cap), while not leveraging the expiring contracts of Tim Thomas (already waived an unusuable), Jerome James, or Brad Miller even for long term talent is the best path towards building a championship.
The reason I don’t see it, is because it clearly isn’t the best path to winning a championship. If we hit a grandslame and sign Lebron James or Dwyane Wade, then yes, it was worth it. But that is highly unlikely.
We already saw Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson, Shaquille O’neal traded for expiring contracts and young prospects. We have that.
The reason I don’t see how
Chicago Bulls Blog and Forums. NBA Power Rankings.
by Andrew7 on Jul 25, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 7 recs
Excellent stuff.
Very well articulated.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Jul 25, 2009 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Every single one of those players is also a bettter defender than bg
you could maybe make an argument that Ray Allen isn’t, but I think the rest are non-negotiable. Just had to add that for perspective sake.
it is so frustrating that the best place to chat about the bulls is dominated by a whiny drama queen moderator with a man crush on an average SG......6 recs
by BigforkBullsFan on Jul 25, 2009 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Kevin Martin, Michael Redd, Gilbert Arenas and Corey Maggette ARE NOT better defenders than Ben Gordon
That is just hyperbole.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 25, 2009 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions
you got me
the rest are. like i said. perspective for the BG apologists
it is so frustrating that the best place to chat about the bulls is dominated by a whiny drama queen moderator with a man crush on an average SG......6 recs
by BigforkBullsFan on Jul 25, 2009 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions
And perspective for the opposite, no?
The other players on that list aren’t SGs, so comparing their efficiencies doesn’t make much sense, I understand why Andrew mentioned them, but it’s irrelevant.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 25, 2009 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions
That List Just Tells Me...
A bunch of players that I’d rather have than Gordon… Gotta upgrade that personal next year!
1. Amare Stoudemire (Major Upgrade!)
2. Kevin Martin (Better Scorer than Gordon but can’t stay healthy)
3. Yao Ming (Rather have than Gordon but hes a gimp…)
4. Dirk Nowitzki (Rather have than Gordon but hes getting older…)
5. Kobe Bryant (Major Upgrade!)
6. Lebron James (Major Upgrade!)
7. Chris Bosh (Major Upgrade!)
T-8. Paul Pierce (Hes older but he would be a slight upgrade over Gordon)
T-8. Dwight Howard (Major Upgrade!)
T-10. Dwyane Wade (Major Upgrade! Odom please don’t come to Miami so you don’t help them as a team and only assist in making Mr. Wade unhappy with the direction of his organization and hopefully leaving the Heat next year and joining the Bulls!)
T-10. Ray Allen (Hes getting older but hes one of the beastiest SGs ever… I’d say Upgrade)
12. Michael Redd (Hes older and more experienced than Gordon…)
T-13. Chris Paul (Don’t really need him…)
T-13. Pau Gasol (Major Upgrade!)
15. Gilbert Arenas Don’t need him…)
16. Carlos Boozer (Maybe…)
T-17. Danny Granger (Major Upgrade!)
T-17. Rashard Lewis (Upgrade!)
T-17. Corey Maggette (needs to stay healthy)
20. Ben Gordon (Sad to see him go but If the Bulls sign some Gems next year than it will be worth it)
I would much rather have BG than expensive, ninny worse defender Michael Redd
Or old man Ray Allen, or really Yao Ming!
I mean the other guys make what $5-10M+ more than Ben on his new contract….
Thurston Moore is a rock god
A healthy Yao Ming is better than Gordon...
But Healthy and Yao Ming is like mixing like oil and water. Ming needs to get like cybernetic legs… better yet he should invest in replacing his whole skeletal system with adamantium so he will never break another bone again!
Personally I wouldn’t mind having Lebron or Bosh or Howard or Wade instead of Gordon.
A lot of those players on that list could potentially be free agents next year…
I’d rather have a young prime talent that makes 20 million a year… (Wade!)
than a young prime talent that makes 10 million a year… (Gordon)
Personally I would mind having Wade, Lebron, or Howard but we an
Anyone
Would rather have WADE than Gordon, but there’s only 3-5 guys in Wade’s league in the entire league…
But yeah, BG for nothing ain’t a great thing, though in this instance if we do something with the nothing next year I’m fine as an unfortunate necessity of choosing Lu-yawn over BG.
And yeah I don’t know if I were a GM if I wouldn’t just rather have BG these days than the career of Yao (oft injured every year, though I guess Yao sells more seats and jersey’s bc of the China connection). When healthy there’s not a question that Yao’s better, and Yao took a contract below his value when he resigned….so he’s not maxxed out….but yeah he might never play again and hasn’t played many a season…
Thurston Moore is a rock god
Llgauskus came back
Which just as many people doubted would happen. They have very similar problems. I wouldnt’ count out Yao yet.
Llgauskus is a totally different player than Yao.
He’s got great range on his jumper and he’s not the defensive player Yao is.
by JockstrapNoah on Jul 28, 2009 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Awesome, and I'd rather have Dwight Howard than Joakim Noah
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 27, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
You need the perspective.
1. Max player
2. $10 mil/yr
3. Max
4. Max
5. Max
6. Max
7. Max
T-8. Max
T-8. Max
T-10. Max
T-10. Max
12. $17 mil/yr
13. Max
14. $16.5 mil/yr
15. $16.5 mil/yr
16. $15 mil/yr
T-17. $10 mil/yr
T-17. Max
T-17. $9.5 mil/yr
20. $11 mil/yr
So “all” of those players are better overall players than Gordon. Virtually all of those players are making more money than Gordon. I’m failing to see how you have any grasp of the reality of the situation.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jul 27, 2009 8:01 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Isn't that why all but 3 of those players will make vastly more sums of money than Gordon?
Okay, so Gordon’s on he list of best scorers. All those players are better defenders and do more on offense than Gordon. Virtually all of those players will make a lot more money than Gordon. Isn’t that somehow logical? Who’s arguing that Gordon should be making as much as any of those guys?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
So you take two stats that measure the same thing...
Then arbitrarily pick a cut off point for both of those and conclude Ben Gordon was one of the best at doing that one thing…good job Andrew. You are correct, Ben Gordon was a scorer, and from what I can tell, you think his talent is somewhere between that of Corey Maggette and Richard Jefferson…
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jul 26, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
The point was that you don't let a top 20 scorer go for nothing.
And you especially don’t refuse to pay him just 9 million a season. But BG’s gone, we should just accept it and move on. He’s been gone for three weeks.
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Jul 26, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
That money slated for BG is now free to sign other players. That’s how i look at it. Miller/Salmons/BG money will give us a shot at an All-star next summer.
And BG declined those contracts. And immediatelly signed with Detroit. Bulls never got to make a counter-offer.
You don't make counter offers.
If you want a player you make OFFERS. Not sit around and act uninterested while your guy is getting better treatment elsewhere. If we go into negotiations with anyone else like that expect similar results.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
First of all
We could have done a sign and trade with BG to get an all-star now. BG accepted the 6/54 deal, but the Bulls said that the deadline had passed. I think someone said that the deadline was because they were going to make different plans with the money if he didn’t accept. EXCEPT THEY DIDN’T. They just took the profits. And as for the immediately signed with Detroit thing, teams can make offers officially on the first, but they can only accept a contract in principle. They have to wait until the 7th to sign the contracts. The Bulls didn’t do anything in that week
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Jul 26, 2009 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Bulls wanted Gordon to get no offers for more than the MLE.
And then come back to the Bulls, signing like an $8 million a year deal.
Unfortunately for them, 19 teams contacted Gordon on the first day of free agency, some offering him the MLE, some trying to work out a sign and trade, and one team offering him $11 million. The Bulls weren’t one of those 19 teams.
Chicago Bulls Blog and Forums. NBA Power Rankings.
It wasn't an arbitrary cut off point.
Those were Gordon’s PPG and scoring efficiency for his AWFUL 2007-2008 season.
Chicago Bulls Blog and Forums. NBA Power Rankings.
That's all well and good
But don’t let those stat’s blind you. BG is alot like a bunch of NBA players that scored 18-20 points a game that did not translate to winning games or moving the team closer to contention. Marbury, Francis, etc. (Of course BG doesn’t have the bad attitude of those 2 losers) Empty points, my friend.
The point is that his points will be replaced by the guys remaining on the roster. And his 60 million can be used to lure an all-star to play with Rose,Kirk, Deng, Noah and TT.
Also Ben did not want to resign here. 2 years straight he declined big contracts. Management took the deal off the table when they figured he’s not worth it.
Umm
Also Ben did not want to resign here.
You really need to say “Ben did not want to resign here on the basis of the contract offers.”
Even then, he wanted to take the last offer. That’s trying to resign here.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jul 26, 2009 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions
You truly don't understand the dynamics of NBA contracts. Don't believe everything you read!
“Management took the deal off the table when they figured he’s not worth it.”
Yeah that’s what they put out there for you to regurgitate.
Let me take you back. When the Bulls gave Hinrich that $47.5M deal, everybody should have known that Gordon nor Deng would settle for less than what Hinrich got (and remember how quickly Hinrich accepted the deal because he likely knew he wasn’t worth that type of money). NBA players are competitive on the court…and when it comes to contracts. Gordon and Deng both felt as if they were better than Hinrich (and in actuality they both are) so if Hinrich could get a deal like that then SURELY they could do much better.
Fast forward to the summer when Gordon and Deng were restricted FA’s. Both turned down the $50M/5yr deal (understandably so seeing as though it was basically Hinrich money). Then the Bulls eventually gave Deng $72Million. And that my friend is the when they lost Ben Gordon. It was their way of choosing Deng over Gordon…when they could have kept both. Since the day they were both drafted, Gordon has been a more productive pro than Deng. Deng looked to have more upside/potential, but Gordon has definitely produced as a pro and he knows it. Call him one dimensional or whatever you want, but NBA players respect Ben Gordon’s game and know that he’s a force to be reckoned with. That’s why Gordon was opining to make more money than Deng.
Now the Bulls didn’t have to give Gordon more money than Deng but based on their system of valuation when it came to Nocioni, Hinrich, and Deng, there is NO WAY anyone can say that Gordon didn’t warrant $10-11M/yr salary.
Or they have offered Hinrich and Nocioni much less than they did and simply stood as firm on that 5yr/$57.5M deal they offered Deng (since they were bidding against themselves) like they stood firm on deals they offered Gordon and the Bulls would have been able to get Gordon to accept that 6yr/$54M deal they offered last summer…or perhaps something even smaller than that. But the precedent had been set with Hinrich and was further worsened when Deng got paid.
People who think NBA players are there for charity and will take reduced salaries or that they love their teammates and the city so much that they’ll take less than what they feel they’re worth are out of their minds. This usually only happens when dealing with a veteran after he’s had a big contract or two. When Deng signed his big contract it was game on…or game over for Ben Gordon. And it didn’t help that the Bulls pretty much drug him through the mud unlike the way the treated golden boys Kirk and Luol. The Pistons showed him some love and he was gone and I can’t blame Gordon one bit.
Don’t hate the player people, hate the game!
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jul 26, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Exactly
I hate all the b.s., but he’s our guy he’ll stay for a hometown discount, or people saying well he left us for $5M….um I’m sorry but I know these athlete’s make a lot of money, but last I looked $5M freaking dollars is a lot of cash, a whole lot of cash….that bought you a mansion in Hawaii 3 years ago, and now probably buys you a mansion in Hawaii and a nice condo in Miami….
Thurston Moore is a rock god
What I really don't get about last summer's negotiations
Is that they pointlessly offered Deng 72 million. They should have offered them both contracts of 63 million, instead of giving one of them 18 million more than the other.
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Jul 26, 2009 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well
I don’t know, we’d have no flexibility and I don’t think having BG-Deng-Hinrich account for almost 55-60% of your cap is going to give you the flexibility to be contenders….those guys are all good low end 2nd to 4th options, good players, and Rose may be a #1 soon….but without a PF or size (and size is normally expensive) we’d never be more htan a real 4th or 3rd seed if we locked those 3 in…
I liked BG more than I like Deng, but I think if Deng gets healthy he may be more tradable soon given his size and alleged versatility, good PR, and high IQ…
Thurston Moore is a rock god
I just come from the point
That if a team gives a guy a lot of money like Chicago did, they shouldn’t do so with the thought well we’ll trade this guy in 1-3 years like they essentially seemed to have done with Kirk, and who knows with Luol…..it seems that ability to trade Luol down the line with his salary was condsidered in that contract, because on pure bball skills and game changing effectiveness, Luol’s been a ways behind Ben to this point in his career….even at his peak 2 years ago.
Thurston Moore is a rock god
I don't think they had an intention of trading Kirk
The situation changed with the Bulls not being title contenders, but instead being a lottery team. Then it turned out that the best player in the draft was at Kirk’s position. If the Bulls hadn’t fell to the lottery and got a point guard as good as Rose, they would have been more than happy to have Kirk continue to start at PG.
I agree that they didn't quite have the intention to trade Kirk
But I think they definitely thought of future trades on Luol (As Paxson referred to on Mike and Mike not that directly as early as November of last year….
Thurston Moore is a rock god
BG-Deng-Hinrich
Yeah, considering they have a PG for the future and one of those players is both a PG primarily and 2-8 years older than the rest of new, young core, I think I know how that should probably have played out.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Hinrich-Gordon-Deng contracts
are a painful memory. Looking back the club did almost the exact opposite of what would be considered the proper approach.
It all comes down to Ben Gordon playing better off the bench, wanting to start, and finding that market medium that pays the man for his proven production without relegating his contract to “bench contract”. He’s healthy. He plays. Deng has missed games every season except for 06-07(the really good year for or PER career highs for all three) and he still got paid. Kirk has missed games too, but not nearly as many as Deng.
I can only presume the team may have paid BG 11 mil per if he was just the first in line to get an extension. Seems more like a fairy tale going forward.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jul 27, 2009 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Didnt the Hinrich negotiations...
…take up until the deadline to finish? I dont remember him jumping on an offer right away.
Yes, they did.
Pax talked to him on the plane ride home from a preseason game and then Kirk accepted the offer.
Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT
Let's wait till the season starts, I'm sure we will have a better offense without him
by bullsfaninbigapple on Jul 27, 2009 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions
LOL!
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Jul 28, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions
It's encouraging to read this about Derrick Rose.
The Bulls NUMBER ONE issue has been the lack of player development. Hinrich and Deng have been roughly the same since year 2 of their careers and Gordon, Thomas and Noah only got slightly better. The one obvious thing that happened was that Gordon worked on his body and this made him rather durable (hopefully getting stronger will help Deng this offseason).
But I am completely confident that Derrick Rose will put together an all-star season worthy season. He had two significant weaknesses if you ask me. One was that his jump shot was spotty and the other was that he failed to use his physical tools to his advantage on a nightly basis. Sounds like the jump shot is coming along and it seems as if he may finally understand the there simply is no guard in the league capable of containing him. And as he continues to get stronger, only the biggest and strongest of big men (Dwight Howard, Shaq and guys of their ilk) will discourage him from bulldozing his way to the basket.
If guys can knock down the ope shots he creates for them, Derrick Rose will be a 20/10 guy this year and well on his way to joining the conversation for best PG in the league.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jul 25, 2009 1:46 PM CDT reply actions
one of his biggest weaknesses
was his defense (or lack of it). It won’t help if the opposing defender can’t contain him, but he also can’t contain them. Hopefully he’s done some work in that area.
It's KYP
The more Rose knows about his opponents the better he will defend them. What I hope is the amount of pressure we have to put on him to produce offensively doesn’t overwhelm him to the point where he may relax on defense.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jul 25, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Not really.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
And coaching, proper schemes, good help, communication
Oh wait, all things the Bulls currently lack.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 27, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah I hear you Norm. But I'm not...
… that concerned about his defense because it can’t help but get better because it was TERRIBLE last season, until he blocked that Rondo shot in the playoffs. So I think the effort to be a better defender will be there on his part and with his physical tools he can be a great defender. But if he isn’t then it won’t kill me. After all, everybody can’t be Joe Dumars and play great D. Quite honestly, over half the league is garbage when it comes to defending. Rose will rise up from that pool of mediocrity and be at least adequate.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jul 25, 2009 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Good thing was that Derrick
knows his defense is weak, and he’s clearly someone that works on his weaknesses. He said in an interview right after the season that getting better on defense was one of his top priorities.
Derrick's attacking of Rondo was huge
There wasn’t a single player that could guard Rose in the entire series one on one. Watching the series a second time you can see Rondo just plain smacking Rose repeatedly to try to phase him out of trying to receive the ball.
I’d like to watch some USA Basketball scrimmages to see how he’s defended.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jul 25, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
ZOMG!!1
"I don’t know if the starting lineup is set," Del Negro insisted. "There are things we’ll do a little differently. We should have a good rotation, deeper. I thought our rotations at times got a little short at the end of the season. So hopefully I can get a comfort factor with the young guys and guys we added to have a deeper rotation. Jannero can score. Kirk will push Derrick. John and Luol at three. Luol can play four. James Johnson can play three and four. Without having our leading scorer, we’re going to have to have other guys producing those points and also making plays down the stretch for us. We expect a lot for ourselves."
Does this sound like “making shit up” to you?
Is this just the product of candor from coaches unsure about rotations? He goes from the 2 to the 4 positions without evening mentioning his starting 4. The quotes make me very cautious about the season.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
It is possible that there could be a...
Rose/Hinrich/Salmons/Luol/Noah starting lineup. Is that the feeling you got?
by Super-Structure on Jul 25, 2009 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Can't have the Favorite Son on the bench
or he might mope.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jul 25, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions
He didn't mope
coming off the bench last season why would he this season?
Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT
shhh
let them have their time…we will have ours when the season actually begins….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Kurt fans got their wish when The Organization purged "The Evil Ben Gordon".
Forget The Organization got nothing for a #3 pick but cap space they will likely not use.
I eagerly await the first game against Detroit – what will a motivated Ben Gordon put up against the Bulls?
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jul 26, 2009 1:52 AM CDT up reply actions
ugh
i wished for kirk ben and rose to coexist on the bulls btw…it wouldve been awesome….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
why tempt
VDN to play hinrich at the 3 again… why!
don't let the bed bugs bite
by Rex Grossman on Jul 26, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Kurt can start at the point, and Rose can come off the bench.
After all, we need Kurt’s intangibles on the floor.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jul 26, 2009 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm looking forward
to seeing what the Bulls score on Ben.
Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT
I'm definitely going to the first Bulls-Pistons game at the UC
50 points anyone?
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Jul 26, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions
There is always the chance
Kirk will use his ninja action chop on Ben like he did on Wade and will be able to “guard” him. If the refs let him get away with it like they did years back that is. What will likely happen is Kirk will jump into Ben’s shot fake and we’ll be seeing some four point plays. None of the Bulls seem good at keeping their feet. Skilled offensive players will always find a way to get their shot.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
Ben is a terrible ballhandler
and kirk has led our team in steals for years.
I see turnovers resulting in fast break dunks for Derrick in our future.
by darksmokepuncher on Jul 27, 2009 8:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Ben isn't a terrible ballhandler
he’s made some mistakes, and isn’t a point guard, but he can certainly dribble and drive well enough for his position.
Kirk is good defensively and him and Derrick have/will work well together.
No, because Kurt fans
aren’t seething with irrational hate for Ben, like you seem to be with Kurt.
That would be "seething with rational hate".
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Jul 27, 2009 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Please specify why it's rational
to hate a member of your team that by all calculations does more good than harm when he’s on the floor.
That's hilarious
There is irrational hatred for every player on this roster, but whatever floats your boat.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 28, 2009 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Except for Aaron Gray
That’s rational hate.
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Jul 28, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions
True, true
I haven’t seen an Aaron Gray defender yet.
No point in hating Aaron Gray since he is mostly roster filler, and paid accordingly.
Gray’s production is in line for what can be expected of a mid second round pick – not very much.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jul 28, 2009 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Ha, he was banned months ago
There was a brave soul who advocated starting Aaron Gray.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 28, 2009 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Please tell me that you're not 'back' now that your Golden God Boy has triumphed.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I never left.
Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT
At least he isn't saying that Brad Miller might start
Vinny Del Negro: Possibly the most unintentionally irritating last name in the history of last names [Hint: I can't for the life of me pronounce it correctly].
-Brandon Jennings: PG of the future!
VDN on rotations/starting lineups
"There are things we’ll do a little differently. We should have a good rotation, deeper. I thought our rotations at times got a little short at the end of the season. So hopefully I can get a comfort factor with the young guys and guys we added to have a deeper rotation. Jannero can score. Kirk will push Derrick. John and Luol at three. Luol can play four. James Johnson can play three and four. Without having our leading scorer, we’re going to have to have other guys producing those points and also making plays down the stretch for us. We expect a lot for ourselves."
A couple of points
- the Bulls didn’t start playing better until Paxson traded away guys and cut the rotation down. VDN expanding the rotation is scary stuff.
- On what Earth is Hinrich going to push Rose? MiddleEarth? Earth 2? Earth 646?
- VDN said John and Luol at the 3, Luol can play 4. Uh oh. VDN did NOT mention Salmons playing the 2. I have a very weird feeling that Kurt Hinrich will be a starter on day 1. Not that I think this is the world’s worst thing. But I think Hinrich’s true value is as a 3rd guard and Salmons is notoriously bad off the bench. I think we will also need Salmons scoring to start games.
- According to Sam, “Del Negro says he’ll expand the rotation and mix and match more with Salmons and Deng up front at times and Rose playing with Hinrich or Pargo.” We are going to continue to go small… What is the point of the big shooting guard?
- Tyrus Thomas is on his way to a 20 minuter per game season. The Bulls aren’t going to make the same mistake twice, i.e they are not going to let themselves look bad by having a player they don’t intend to resign have a big season. We now have Tyrus, Luol, Johnson, Noah and Gibson to play the 4. I think we can expect every guy not named Gibson to get considerable minutes there. With the Bulls plan to play small, I don’t see a team committing to play and develop Tyrus. I see a season of pouting Thomas, followed by a mid season trade or a refusal to extend the qualifying offer.
by Basketball Smurf on Jul 25, 2009 3:32 PM CDT reply actions
Kirk pushing Rose
I guess he means defensively, but the great communicator always leaves out the crucial detail to his qualify his statement.
If anything, it will be crucial that Salmons start at the 2 to establish early scoring and use Kirk off the bench to supply the defense to protect the lead. Since VDN is always talking up Kirk’s leadership it sure sounds like the failure to even mention Salmons at the 2 means that Kirk’s leadership is going to be forced into the starting lineup.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jul 25, 2009 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with your logic, although
the reverese could also work in terms of when to use Salmons and when to use Hinrich. We could use Hinrich to stifle the other team for a bit and tire them out, then bring in Salmons to take advantage of tired legs (or backups). Still, I’d rather go with Salmons first, because while his D may not be as good as Kirk’s, it’s not bad, and I think we’re going to rely a good deal on his scoring (although not to the extent we relied on Ben’s).
I’m happy to hear Rose’s shot improved and that Noah’s bulking up, but I hope the team can figure out how to work together on D. Can’t really find out if that happened until the season starts, though.
Salmons career numbers
show him to be far more productive starting as the 2nd or third scoring option than off the bench. He even played really well as the primary scoring option with the Kings when Kevin Martin was on the shelf.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jul 25, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Didn't know that, but it makes sense.
I agree that Salmons makes more sense as the starter. Hinrich’s going to get plenty of minutes anyway, but Salmons will offer considerably more on offense than Kirk.
The biggest advantage Salmons has over Hinrich
is his ability create off the dribble. Without Gordon we have to get this from another position besides Rose. Salmons is the best option. Deng isn’t very good in this light. Kirk can do it, but his finishing ability is weaker and he’s not going to get to the line like Salmons.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jul 25, 2009 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree completely.
Deng can slash and Hinrich can shoot, but neither can create their own shots. Salmons can, and that’s extremely valuable to this team, particularly when considering VDN’s lack of an offensive scheme.
Do you guys remember the bulls
before rose at all? hinrich scored 16 ppg which is quite a bit for a pg, and it wasnt cuz chris duhon could set him up. Hinrich doesnt have bg or john salmons ability to create his own shot, but he has always been pretty effective getting his shots off by using screens. In other words he does have the abililty to create his own shot, moreso than deng…the only thing is he isnt aggressive in terms of scoring. Take a look at any of the games where hinrich scored alot, he did so when he didnt hesitate at all….uhh here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqytD8I9N2Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOCb7Y5gibE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooXrbfIJADw&feature=fvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhU5-VHUCxw&feature=related
Deng doesnt have the ability to put the ball on the floor and create something for himself but he is extremely efficient
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Jul 26, 2009 1:39 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He has that stupid-looking crossover fadeaway thingy.
He was hitting it a lot last I saw it.
Vinny Del Negro: Possibly the most unintentionally irritating last name in the history of last names [Hint: I can't for the life of me pronounce it correctly].
-Brandon Jennings: PG of the future!
yeah, i remember
Hinrich played so well the bulls drafted a pg to replace him. Hinrich absolutely melted down in the 07-08 season. I won’t forget that.
by Basketball Smurf on Jul 26, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hinrich can hit jumpers,
and yes, he uses screens well. Deng can score in the paint, and he’ll knock down open looks to keep the D honest. I didn’t necessarily need the evidence for Kirk, the man has a nice shooting touch and punishes defenders who give him too much space.
Like you said, though, Salmons is better at creating his own shot. That doesn’t mean Salmons is better and it’s not a slight against Hinrich, it’s just one difference between them.
If either Hinrich or Salmons gets hurt for a significant period of time this season, we’re fucked. Pargo as the first guard off the bench makes me cringe.
I actually did forget that.
I like Kirk’s game, but even I forgot about how effective he can be when looking to score. I hope playing more shooting guard will raise his aggressiveness next year.
One of the reasons i'm a hinrich fan is...
because i feel he and i share the same basketball mentality…heres an example of that (or so i believe)…
When i am playing team basketball, if i am on a team with a person i KNOW is a better scorer/shooter than me, i tend to defer to that person as opposed to look for my own shot partially because i am usually the ball handler on the team, and because i often play out in my head the best situation to get wins and i’d rather get the balls in the guys with the ability to score and have thier backs (get the rebound or get ready to get back on defense). When i have the ball, i dont look to score first, i look to pass, when im wide open i hesitate because i look to see if i can get the ball in more sure hands, but my friends often knock me on this behavior since i do have a decent shot and do have the ability to get the rim for layups and such. However put me on a team with say my family members and i’ll take more shots with more confidence because i know that i may be the actual best option on the team. Its a completely different mentality
I would say that in hte past ive seen this alot with kirk hinrich. The games above are examples, then theres this http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/article/2008-01-23/hinrich-scores-career-high-38-bulls-beat-pacers and even game 7 of the bulls celtics series this year. Its not saying hinrich becomes a stellar scorer suddenly, but he will probably play on offense more confidently when bg isnt there to take control.
Slowly and surely im starting to become more confident in my game, especially since my younger brother has started playing more with me, i am trying to help him be a better player while at the same time i find myself also wanting to stay better than him (which is getting kind of hard nowdays) but playing alongside him is giving me more confidence to take control of games. I guess now that i think about it, i hope hinrich and roses relationship is the same, but doubt it since they arent blood related and only have known each other a year not thier entire lives.
At anyrate im thinking hinrichs offensive production may be higher than ever next year, especially since i think if i were him, i would be working on my shooting all summer…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
I pray that he's concentrating on his shooting
since he’s going to be asked to take a lot more spot up jumpers than ever before. The biggest thing he can do to help the team is to shoot the 3 with accuracy and confidence.
by runningman on Jul 28, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Indeed
i agree
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Jul 28, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I hope he is too.
Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT
I still
don’t understand how hinrich missed that layup in the Celtics series…
don't let the bed bugs bite
by Rex Grossman on Jul 28, 2009 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions
One of the knocks on Hinrich coming out of Kansas
was that he was not always assertive on the offensive end. This has still been a bit of an issue for him in the NBA. Personally I’ve always liked his game except that he doesn’t penetrate or draw fouls hardly ever. He’s a solid player, but the problem for me is that we have Derrick Rose, and HInrich can’t be a full time 2 guard, nor can he be a 9 million dollar backup (at least not past this season I would think). I think he would thrive with a clear cut star that he can play off of like Wade or Brandon Roy. If the Bulls are out of the playoff picture, I look for him to be traded to a contending team for an expiring deal and hopefully a draft pick.
"In essence, our guys are complementary-type players. We still have to find a mix that works and is balanced."-John Paxson
agreed
which is the realization that i came to during this past season, its why i hoped he did go to portland. Hinrich will just get alot of heat in chicago no matter what, every mistake he makes is amplified 9.5 million times. I think he still has a chance to stay on the bulls if he dramatically increases the ability of his shot which (and i may be in the minority here) is a possibility since rose might help him get many open looks, but yea i can think of several teams who might want hinrich, most which are contenders or close to that level (lakers, rockets, portland, cavaliers, possibly orlando, miami, 76ers now..)
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Jul 29, 2009 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I think at some point in the season
JJ will show that he’s our next best option off the dribble. This guy showed a really nice handle and ability to get in the paint during summer league and college.
John Salmons...
from The U!!!
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on Jul 25, 2009 8:54 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Also
He bitched about not getting the amount of touches he had been getting once Kevin Martin came back. I think he has to start or else he will bitch and not be as productive.
i wouldn't be surprised if Kirk and Miller started
pg Rose
sg Hinrich
sf Deng
pf Noah
C Miller
I mean we are dealing with a VDN inspired line up. The same man who started Thabo over Hinrich and Gordon to begin the season, featured Gooden in the majority of his lineups and started Aaron Gray 8 games last season.
The idea that the starting lineups are not set has me worried to death. We could be in store for a year of mixing and matching.
by Basketball Smurf on Jul 25, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Rose/Kirk/Salmons/Deng/Noah?
We have to somehow get Tyrus on the bench after all.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
Pargo and Hunter as our backup guards?!?! Sign me up!!!!
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
Pargo is instant offense and Hunter is veteran leadership! How can that go wrong, you Debby Downer you?
(trying out this positive thing for a while…feels dirty.)
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
Yep. Let the kid go. They don't want him. Why pretend?
That’s what bothered me about Gordon. They didn’t want him, why not facilitate a sign-and-trade? (That’s what I took as being the main obstacle: that the Bulls wouldn’t even listen to offers for S&T’s for Gordon.)
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
They wanted the cap room for 2010
and no one was offering a suitable expiring contract.
It's pretty hilarious to me
that now that the Bulls organization has finally obtained their oft-sought-after M2GWCSAD in Salmons, our idiotic coach might not even start him there. Really, Vinny?
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
Ditto to BBall Smurf's observations. If he`s accurate, I too see some black clouds forming on the horizon.
The biggest reason rain may fall on this year’s parade, which should come as no surprise to anyone, is that Admiral Vinny is still at the helm of the good ship “Bullshype”. Who on this staff can help our big men improve (or are they relying on Brad?), and is capable of actually designing a cohesive defensive scheme where everyone understands their roles and how to execute an effective NBA defense? (please tell me there’s someone in house with these skills but how does one teach what they don’t know themselves?).
Gar’s talking up of our not overly impressive rookies seems more like hyperbole than reality, whose underlying intent is a backdoor way to demean Tyrus’s ability and contributions so it can be used as a future tool to justify not resigning him, thus saving money while removing a thorn from VDN’s backside since his fragile ego seems threatened by Thomas’s stubborness and failure to always march to his tune, no matter how discordant and nonsensical it may appear to the discerning ear.
I am still a true believer in TT’s raw portential, but it cannot blossom without strong, knowledgeable guidance to direct him, something woefully lacking in this current coaching staff which to me seems mediocre at best unless some new blood is brought in from the outside. This young athletic core could really benefit and succeed with a Thibadeau on defense and an offensive guru like (who is out there?).
I love Noah, Rose and TT (in a manly way only). Salmons, Miller, Deng and Kirk have many positives to offer when healthy. Johnson’s arrow can point up with proper motivation, attitude and teaching. Pargo is a grand canyon step down from Gordon while Gibson, Gray and Hunter are superflulous roster fills.
Again the thunderstorm that could keep a sunny sky scenario from developing can be summed up in my humble opinion by these dark clouds named….DelNegro, Bickerstaff, Myers, Oceipka and Wilhelm. Where is the silver lining? Is this the best a big market team can offer in professional talent? Who should get the blame for assembling such a weak lineup, Gar, Pax, Reinsdork or all 3? Or are my biases just blinding me to their hidden talents? Do you think we could trade them for San Antonio’s, Utah’s, Los Angeles’s, Boston’s, Houston’s, Miami’s or Orlando’s staffs if we also throw in Aaron Gray and Lindsey Hunter? Just dreaming…..I mean asking.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Jul 25, 2009 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Remember, Jerry Sloan and Phil Jackson are former Bulls coaches "The Organization" let go.
You forget Sidney Green on the coaching staff, but then again his contribution may end up being forgettable.
Do you think we could trade them for San Antonio’s, Utah’s, Los Angeles’s, Boston’s, Houston’s, Miami’s or Orlando’s staff
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jul 25, 2009 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I don’t get the negativity on vinnie. I understand how his inexperience is perceived as “doesn’t know anything about basketball”. So I want you to explain to me how this team won 60% of the games after the mid-season trade and pushed Boston to 7 games, without Deng, Salmons on a gimpy leg, and BG with a messed up hamstring? You really think Vinnie is clueless?
I’m saying we are on the up-swing.
Kevin Garnett Kevin Garnett Kevin Garnett Kevin Garnett
Wait, let me say it again, Kevin Garnett.
The Bulls were still not that great after the trades. They were destroyed by a lottery team on the season finale when they had something to play for, were blown out by teams like Charlotte, and barely outplayed the Knicks, Nets, etc.
There were a lot of things to be happy about, but the coaching was never one of them. Vinny was a horrible coach in the playoffs.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 25, 2009 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions
So after it's pointed out that they won
over 60% of their games, you point out that they lost one, and you think you have a point?
If you honestly think that they were a well-coached and well-executed team after the trade then good for you
I happen to think they just scored a ton of points, played poor to middling defense, and took advantage of a very easy schedule.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 27, 2009 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions
The coaching got easier too
once the rotation shrunk to eight then seven players.
by JockstrapNoah on Jul 28, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions
You've forgotten Randy Brown! How could you have possibly overlooked him!
He’s going to establish a training program for each player, coordinate with VDN and the other coaches as to players’ progress and skills development, and enlist the veterans (Miller and Hunter) to help with the individual development programs.
Well, I can’t imagine it being any other way. Pax and Gar wouldn’t have started this program if they weren’t serious. After all, player development is a process. And we’ve got to start somewhere. I’m sure this program will work….I’m confident that the individual training programs will also focus on defense….Does Randy know anything about defense? Well, VDN and the assistants do….That will help a lot….Maybe a playoff spot is hoping for too much. Shit.
Randy was just hired as the Director of Player Development...Is this a joke?
The man has obvious leadership and organizational skills as evidenced by his having the smarts to set up an online auction recently in order to sell his three NBA championship rings after filing for Chapter 7 bankruptcy. After all not everyone can demonstrate such quick thinking computer savvy especially when the chips are down. OK, cheap shot ……anyone can run into a little bad luck sometimes, as my rapidly diminishing 401K constantly reminds me.
But I’m admittingly curious why a man with such a myriad of skills was let go by the Sacremento Kings. Forget the fact they had the worst record in the NBA last season (17-65). Maybe they just couldn’t afford him and thus a golden opportunity fell like a ripe apple right into the Bulls lap. Or could it be, under his current circumstances, being unemployed, he would be willing to work really, really cheap and has an NBA assistant coaching background to boot, unlike our current novice head honcho before Pax plucked him from relative obscurity into the limelight where he demonstrated how his utter lack of experience was not a detriment to making brilliant spot on decisions time and time again last season as the team operated like a well oiled machine of synchronized swimmers rather than a helter skelter YMCA pickup squad as some naysayers suggested.
Apparently the Bulls are hoping he can transfer some of his stellar basketball talents to their current players. After all this fiesty former guard amassed career averages of 4.8 points, 2.2 assists, 0.2 blocks and 1.8 rebounds while shooting .417 from the field and even more amazing, converted an even 20% of his 3 point attempts during his 12 year career as a benchwarmer.
Now if he can only impart some of these unique gifts to our young guns, I predict the sky is the limit for their future development, especially our bigs although Randy is only 6’ 2". They may appreciate that no matter what the circumstances, he will always look up to them. This may go down as the most brilliant move since the tax cheat, Timothy Gartnier, was put in charge of the IRS and trillions of dollars of taxpayer money with the bailout plans.
With talent like this waiting in the wings to bail out the Bulls, it now becomes perfectly understandable why the organization wasn’t interested in hiring an eager Scotty Pippen who offered his services. After all, they both had NBA rings (in fact Scottie still has his) so I guess the one constant the Bulls have, that talent wins out, still holds. Way to go Mr. Brown. Now would someone please just shoot me.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Jul 26, 2009 4:47 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
i don't buy the argument about his career averages
most coaches were nba journeymen or didn’t even play in the pros.
he also has more coaching experience than our current head coach… :P
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
Another poetic well constructed posting by Tyrusmancrush
A work of art!
Rec.
"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"
dude your signature (now removed) was in itself a model dog wagging his own tail.
Nothing wrong with dat! Actually I agreed with the comment made by yfbb…
Now you reverted to sarcasm like many of us including me?
"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"
Loul can’t play the 4 all game, maybe in a 5-8 minutes of smallball…but he will get merked if he has to play PF the whole game.
Does anyone think we should sign warrick?
"Game 7 of the 2011 Finals.. 10 seconds left in the game, the score is tied up 92-92.. Kobe with the ball he drives in.. IS BLOCKED by bosh, Rose picks it up Runs it down Throws up a pass to Wade.. WADE SCORES! GAME OVER ! BULLS WIN BULLS WIN!"
TT and Warrick are very similar players.
Are they not? If we can’t trade for booze we might as well stand pat and try to trade for someone mid season.
If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.
by Chi 'Till I Die on Jul 25, 2009 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Who is Warrick
better than? If he’ll take Taj Gibson money and minutes, sure he should be signed.
I don’t understand this over-reaction to small ball, as if it doesn’t work. Do guys even watch the rest of the league? Every team, let me repeat that, EVERY TEAM, has a small ball line-up they go to when they want to change it up, speed up the game, or are down and need shooters. 3 guard line-ups or moving the 3 to the 4 and the 4 to 5 is a common practice in the league. Yet when we do it, Vinny gets lambasted.
The problem is that Vinny plays stupid small ball
For example, Noah and/or Thomas are perfect for small ball, but they don’t play when he goes that way.
yup
Brad Miller is NOT a small ball center (well, in any world that isn’t Vinny’s, that is).
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
because
the duhon/hinrich/gordon/nocioni/wallace line up is still fresh in many of our minds.
by Sambossanova on Jul 25, 2009 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions
the Bulls use 3 guard line ups in almost every situation
If the Bulls were more smart about their small ball lineup and used it strategically, than I may agree with you. But the Bulls use the small ball line up because they don’t believe they have enough quality big men / swing players.
The Bulls played Rose/Gordon/Hinrich/Salmons/C at times last season. That isn’t just going small, that is going ridiculously tiny. And for what? If there was some type of plan accompanying these small ball attempts, than you would be right. But it has become an almost reflexive move by Bulls coaches. Going small can only get you so far. Sooner or later you need some big guys who can play, or conversely, you have to trust the big guys on the floor.
by Basketball Smurf on Jul 25, 2009 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
Vinnie had to go small due to the bigs weren’t dependable. And when there was foul trouble, he had to go with his best players, which were Salmons, kirk, That lineup was used once maybe? all year? And he had to do it when we had Gooden and Noc here, too, Noah was isn’t as fit/got exhausted after 5 minutes, and Tyrus was just TT, drifting around on D, and not able to beat his man to score or offensive rebound.
When other teams play small ball
They don’t have Kirk Hinrich at small forward, or Brad Miller plodding around for 35 minutes.
You need the personnel to play smaller lineups, the Bulls are a horrible defensive rebounding team, and going smaller just makes that disadvantage even greater.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 25, 2009 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Darn
I just keep hoping against hope that we work out a S/T deal with the Lakers using Kirk’s $9M salary to sign Odom to a 4 year $40M deal….
I know Kirk’s a guard and we’ll need a guard with no Kirk, but Odom’s too good to go to Miami for the full mid level (and about 2 years maybe 3 years too young)….
Thurston Moore is a rock god
Where would you play Odom?
Starting SF, PF ? Wouldn’t you have to get rid of either Tyrus or Deng to make Odom work out?
If we could get Odom, I wonder if Philly would be interested in Deng for Iguodala.
Odom's versatile enough
That I’d just deal with the cards after they’re dealt.
He could take Tyrus time and we could part more with a Salmons-Tyrus deal later to get a more ready SG if we wanted (or trade Deng and throw Salmons into his “should be” role after we get Deng’s rep back-which will happen once he plays)….
Odom’s a versatile talent and at a $9M or $10M price tag that’s well worth the "too many combo SF/PF’s risk). He can handle the ball a bit, so perhaps Vinny could try to really fully implement the bits of D’Antoni he tries at times….
Odom and Rose should be a great combo, especially next to the speedy Noah, 2 versatile players inside and out, Odom’s got some back to the basket game. 2 great rebounders in Noah and Odom….. The rest are solid filler’s…
We’d also still have the cap money with the expiring Pargo-James-Miller for next year…we may have to dump another guy to get under the cap if it drops again though, we’ll see in Feb…
Thurston Moore is a rock god
My lineup until we traded someone else if we had to trade someone else which I'm not sure of
Rose-Salmons-Deng-Odom-Noah
Rose is the main PG, and for spells we run a no PG offense, but keep that minimal, using point forwards (Odom mostly)….we’d like a PG in a trade down the road…that’ll keep us a year away, but so what we’d be ridiculously close and a backup PG ain’t enough to stop a trade, esp when Odom can handle the ball like a PG when needed…
With Tyrus Thomas (6th man playing some 3, mostly 4, some 5) Brad Miller-Johnson-Pargo off the bench.
We run the triangle offense or do a Vin-nell-antoni offense hybrid (a Don Nelson and D’Antoni type offense as filtered through our fearless leader).
We’d ahve at all times really 4+ guys (Rose obviously, then Odom, then Salmons maybe, then Deng, and Noah can handle the ball well for his size, hence the +) who have the ability to take the ball down the court and start a break, and the length and athleticism of that group would be incredible.
That would be a fun team, the size adv and Tyrus off the bench could be ridiculously crazy. With Odom making Hinrich money (or just a shade more) we’d be flexible next year. Probably won’t get the Wade’s of the world, but we could get 1-2 really good players that would be prizes in the standard contract year, and could further up the talent. Rose is our superstar and will get the 4 Odom years to prove it, Odom and Deng essentially carry out their contracts together (1 yr apart)….before if we have to retool we retool again for Rose stage 2 when he’s what 24….
Thurston Moore is a rock god
by majoyenrac on Jul 28, 2009 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
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