Break-Ups ver. Chicago
by halnat on Jul 23, 2009 10:55 PM CDT
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PrintI was reading the TrueHoop Thursday Bullets, and although any mention of Blazers fans usually puts a sour taste in the back of my mouth, this bullet caught my attention:
Blazers Edge tackles fatalism and the sports fan when an e-mailer asks, "If you knew the Blazers weren't going to win a championship in the next ten years would you stop watching or like them less?"
At first, the post itself seemed like it would be retarded. Seriously, how could you ask the frickin admin of a blog about his favorite team that kind of question? But Dave expanded on it and posed this one:
So I ask you...do you have a "break up point" with this team? If so, where is it? Amidst the splendor of the New Era and the upcoming decade of probable title runs, is there anything this team could do to lose you?
After automatically thinking "f*** their New Era and everything that looks like their New Era", I wondered what that breakup point would be for a Bulls fan. Admittedly, I'd already experienced such a breakup point in 1998 (as a 12 year old, there was no greater trauma), and I didn't start caring again until well into 2005. Thus, I know nothing about the days of Elton, the motorcycle man, Jalene, and so on. Who wouldn't want to stop watching after an entire championship team is dismantled?
........ I can hear Jerry's bank account smiling already.
So I ask you... do you have a "break up point" with the team? If so, where is it? Amidst the mediocrity of the last 10 years and the upcoming decade of praying to the Point God, is there anything this team could do to lose you?
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"Elton, the motorcycle man, Jalene, and so on. "
ha! well done :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 23, 2009 11:12 PM CDT reply actions
Heh, thanks.
On that note, Andy’s started spelling Jalen correctly, but the sentence in which he used it is really a thing of wonder…
I removed that one for off-topic-ness.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 24, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
But you should've left it for awesome-ness
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on Jul 24, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Nobody removes Angryandy!
I demand that you put it back up!
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Jul 24, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
When rose is gone
i think theres alot of people (like tyger) who have already quit on this team, although i cant understand why you would quit now, they still have a pretty talented roster, and enough cap space to do something in a once a generation free agency and they still have a future top 5 pg in d.rose, a single big move can take the bulls from mediocre (as this blog puts it) into a top team, two big moves and they can be contending, and thats before all the potential on this team is actually realized.
Then again, take away rose from this team, and suddenly were back in the time of “elton, the motorcycle man, jalene and so on”….at which point i break away from the team…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Sigh...
That’s exactly the mentality, the “Bulls are just one step away from contending” way of thinking that has kept me riveted to this team for the last 4 years. And it’s what will keep me watching as long as Derrick is around. I think management realizes this, so Rose is not leaving no matter what.
Its either one or two steps from contention
Next season really will be a good gauge as to how far the bulls really are, which is…yet again….another reason i cant wait for the season to start already…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Jul 24, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, Rose's departure would make most Bulls fans jump ship.
I personally can’t leave em though, which I think comes from some morbid fascination with their struggles that is closely akin to the fascination people have with car crashes.
Your point about the Bulls being “one step away from contention” is spot on, and I’d also like to say that the reverse has been true as well: they’ve somehow managed to be one step away from contention as well as one step away from the lottery. Rose is sticking around, and I’m hoping the Bulls figure out a way to take the step forward rather than the step back.
as far as your question
I have a ways to go. Maybe if they waste Rose’s prime. They’re already wasting his formative years, but they’re still giving themselves one big chance. It just sucks right now to wait for it.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 23, 2009 11:17 PM CDT reply actions
First of all, excellent angryandy reference there, that's always appreciated.
Second, I stayed with this team through all of those horrible years; and I didn’t even move to Chicago until 2002! So, I can’t imagine it could get any worse than when Randy Brown, Jud Buechler and Dickey Simpkins were in our starting line-up.
That being said, if it does get worse than that (like, if we hire Isiah Thomas as coach and Dick Vitale as GM), I suppose it would be my breaking point.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Jul 23, 2009 11:46 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
yeah, that's sort of how i feel
like i stuck around with all those teams that were way more horrible than this one… i don’t know what will drive me away
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
Rec'd for the ever-appreciated reminder of Jud Buechler.
He’s my personal reference point for gaining perspective and keeping in mind things could be worse.
I can put up with a team losing
Lord knows I’ve cheered for more than one bad team in my life. I’m more about the players on the team, personally – if there are guys out there playing hard and that are easy to like as people, I’ll cheer through some pretty crappy W-L records.
Of course, that kind of lousy usually drives the “play hard” out of the guys, then they’re not so easy to like, and I’m off the hook.
In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!
I took a break when the team fell apart post MJ
and it just so happened to overlap with when I was really busy with school. For me that was sorta the dark ages and the Gordon/Kirk/Deng trio appeared to be the turning point. I caught some games after college got out and initially liked the “baby bulls” comments and in a Portland-ish fashion imagined all kinds of awesome for the young team. Then the players got off their rookie contracts and it became complicated.
Even the thought that if these aren’t The Guys then maybe they can at least be chips to get the right pieces has fallen through. I don’t know what direction the team is going, but every year nothing happens for me will be a year we waste of Rose’s career. He ready now. I am not sure how many underachieving years they expect us to take, but hiring Vinny, not making moves, being stupid with a valuable guy like BG, and otherwise ignoring the “who works with Rose stays, who doesn’t leaves” rule that seemed to make sense last year but has had no logical follow through… these last ten years the Bulls have been the “bad boyfriend” (or girlfriend for most of you I guess) that you keep hooking up with even though they have a pattern on abuse because they promise to be better in the future.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
That's a great analogy
After the Heat first-round sweep, there was an overwhelming feeling of wanting to win with what we had and believing that the team would hopefully improve each year, bringing us to the top. When the bottom fell out, we still stuck around hoping that they’d return to form (which still wouldn’t have been enough), and were saved from despair by 1.7%. There’s a certain allure to a young team that is almost there every year but not quite.
We’ve learned from that fall from glory, and thus now all we do is clamor for trades. I feel Portland fans are making the same mistake of believing in the potential of what they have, though the presence of ROY prevents a huge dropoff. Maybe it’s not a mistake, more like a rite of passage for every sports fan. I suppose we have a ROY now, too.
I took a break when the team fell apart post MJ and it just so happened to overlap with when I was really busy with school.
Ha, me too. 1998 was a wonderful summer to go to college and forget about what Jerry had done to my Bulls. I’m grateful I was far away from Chicago and didn’t waste much time following them for the next 3 years.
Same here
I left for college in DC in 1998, and as I tell the story, Jordan stalked me. Seeing as how I couldn’t see or listen to any Bulls games, and Jordan was in DC, I just watched the wizards when I could.
I didn’t become a wizards fan, but i rooted for Jordan to do well. I read about the Bulls as much as possible, but it’s not the same. I didn’t see Artest play a single game as a Bulls player. That’s for the best, cause I probably would have been pissed when he was traded. Thankfully I didn’t have to stay in Chicago and watch the really painful years.
I didn't get into basketball and the Bulls until 2005.
Before then I didn’t care, so I never saw the championships (born in ‘96), or the times of Elton, the motorcycle man, and Jalene. The Bulls probably wouldn’t lose me if they didn’t do anything during the summer of 2010 and traded Rose for cap relief, simply because I have no life (do any of us?).
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
Man, I'm in my twenties and you just made me feel OLD.
And yeah, I have a life :-P My job just centers around the interweb (I’m guessing a lot of ours do).
I'll probably always watch
Because it’s the best sport in my opinion and is really the only nice thing about the cold (and getting colder) CHicago winters….
Course if they continue this sucktitude, I might just have to move to a warmer area….
Though yeah, there’s always enough of a lure to keep me interested. THe years I didn’t watch a lot were the post MJ years because of college….but I started watching again with Kirk Hinrich (more because of timing)….and I still with the warts and all find the team interesting enough.
Granted if last year was a repeat of 2007-2008 I probably would have seriously slowed my game watching….because I did (mostly) quit on the team in March that year…and 2 years of that in a row would have been too much to watch 90% of the games, but I would still follow them at least half the time.
Thurston Moore is a rock god
Don't have one.
The only scenarios in which I would cease being an attentive fan of the Bulls are all outrageous (like The Chairman and Pax getting busted for using the United Center as a human trafficking hotspot or something). I view fandom as like a marriage in the times before no-fault divorce — I’ve made a commitment and I’m going to stick to it for better or worse. I’m not a season ticket holder, so the only investment I have is emotional (I might feel differently if I had a more economic investment). I would feel diminished as a fan if I went away during dark times only to come back when the team emerged again (if it emerges again). I can’t really justify that, but it’s how I feel. I’m a Bulls fan for life. I hope that the team treats me right, but I’m not going to abandon it if it doesn’t.
Exactly
I mean the main thing is while sure we haven’t been real contenders, the last 5-6 years (throwing 2007-2008 out of the equation where we were “supposed” to be contenders), we’ve been a fun team to watch.
I’ve been entertained by this club. I find the players likeable, and the personalities of the mgmt and the way they present themselves entertaining….sure it can be ridiculously frustrating at times, but overall I like our guys and have wanted mostly to see Paxson succeed…..even though the low point came this year pre deadline when he did nothing with the club and I was crying foul…
Thurston Moore is a rock god
Agreed
Nothing they can do will make me stop being a Bulls fan. I may hate the direction they’re taking, but it won’t make me renounce my fanship.
I'm sure there will be a point in my life (probably after school and such)
Where I won’t be so invested in the team, and the Bulls will become more of a fun diversion, and I won’t care so much about the wins and losses.
I’ll never stop rooting for them, I actively dragged my dad to Bulls games when they were as pathetic as the Clippers, when they celebrated wins like it was the 4th of July, when an old ass Jordan in a Wizards uniform was the greatest moment in like a 5 year stretch.
For this current team, I will root hard. For all their on-court faults, they’re all about as old as me, and it’s fun watching them mature (or regress).
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
that's pretty much how I feel
I’ve rooted for them through the losing, the championships, the uber losing again, and now the annual mediocrity. My dad and I always say “we’re through!”, but yet still manage to make it to a few games each season and cheer our heads off. I still rarely miss a game on TV. I can count on one hand the amount of games that I just totally miss during a season.
I’m going to be moving away from the area before the season starts and I’ve already started planning to get NBALP in my new location so that I can catch as much as possible.
So with that being said, I doubt I’ll ever “break-up” with them, but I’m sure the interest will start to wane somewhat I imagine. It never helps when your favorite player on the team is allowed to walk for less than a hill of beans. That alone has made my interest for the upcoming season as less as it has ever been in recent memory. Maybe that feeling is the beginning of something, who knows.
In any event, I’ve stuck with them this long so I don’t see myself going anywhere for awhile.
BaB, Dorf and trolling will forever exists!
"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"
I like the question
We are at the beginning of a renaissance not ready to start over. In the Reinsdorf Interview Reaction diary there is a post by Sport2. He documents that since the post Jordan era the Bulls have won only 38% of their games. This is fourth worst in the NBA. this is true but leads to a very pessimistic view of the Bulls that I believe is miss-leading. If you break up the post-Jordan era into (1998-9 through 2003-4) and (2004-5 through 2008-9) you get a different picture. For 1998-9 through 2003-4
2003-04 23 59 .280
2002-03 30 52 .366
2001-02 21 61 .256
2000-01 15 67 .183
1999-00 17 65 .207
1998-99 13 37 .260
the win percentage is 26%. For 2004-5 through 2008-9
2008-09 41 41 .500
2007-08 33 49 .402
2006-07 49 33 .598
2005-06 41 41 .500
2004-05 47 35 .573
the win percentage is 51%. If you take out 2007-8 the win percentage is 54%. We are not great but we are improving and have a better than .500 win percentage.
We are an evolving team that still is very young. Despite the pessimism we see on BaB the trend is better than average with a very young, exceptional point guard, under the cap for 2009-10. I would say we are excellently positioned to make a run over the next 3 – 5 years. Piccolomair’s diary received 13 “recs” because this team has hope of future success. We are at the beginning of hope for a renaissance not ready to start over.
by chgobr on Jul 24, 2009 1:52 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Well sure, if you completely cherry pick to only show the best few years, then every team can look above .500 I bet
Over Paxson’s tenure, the Bulls were 234-258, which gives them a .476 winning percentage. In the context of the rest of the league, that’s 17th. Which is, you know, pretty mediocre.
Also, you’re full of shit with respect to the cap situation, unless you’re just completely ignoring the various dire predictions of what the cap will look like next year.
What’s going to happen is one of two things.
1. We’ll be over the cap and mediocrely tied to aging players.
2. We’ll be under the cap by jettisoning said aging players, but also Tyrus Thomas.
Piccolomair’s diary got 13 recs because most people don’t understand the numbers, and because people want to have hope, not because this team has realistic aspirations based on facts.
Come on.
No one needs to believe that the Bulls must get Wade or Bosh to have hope for the team. Deng is 24, Rose is 21, and Noah is 23. Who are the aging players we will be tied to? Hinrich and Salmons? Neither of whom are bad players, nor are we “tied” to them for a particularly long time.
People believe that Rose can develop into a top15 player, that Noah can continue his play of the last couple months of the season, that Deng can return to form, that Salmons can continue to hit threes, etc. None of these hopes are outrageous.
This isn’t 2008. We do not have Wallace, Nocioni, Hughes, Gooden, or Duhon getting minutes. No matter what you say, your butt-hurtness is extreme.
by Super-Structure on Jul 26, 2009 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Preach on Bro
Preach ON!!!!!
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Not to mention
This team as constructed has 7 starter level players and 1 solid backup.
I still think we should have a lineup like this.
PG: Rose/Hinrich
SG: Salmons/Hinrich
SF: Deng/Johnson
PF: Tyrus/Miller
C: Noah/Miller
I don’t believe in James Johnson being able to play PF.
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Jul 26, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions
That's a team that will win in the mid-30s to mid-40s.
PG: Rose/Hinrich
SG: Salmons/Hinrich
SF: Deng/Johnson
PF: Tyrus/Miller
C: Noah/Miller
Contract uninsured because of bad back
Gone at the end of the season
The big problem with the Bulls is not just the actions but the intent. I could take Rose/Deng/Noah as a decent core of a team going forward, but I have little faith in the Bulls to build something beyond that.
I don't completely disagree with you...
I think the Bulls, without serious injuries and with growth from Rose can hit 44-47 wins, which could very well put them in 4/5th. If they then fail to sign any player at all in 2010 (not limited to just the first tier stars) then I will be on the same page as you.
by Super-Structure on Jul 26, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
The lack of bad players
getting entitlement minutes is going to make a huge difference. I think some people underestimate how much that hurt the team.
it will be hard
considering I watched almost every Bulls game during their absolute darkest days on Gamecast because they were never on TV, and during this season I was staying up till 3 AM to watch the games online here in Spain, I don’t see really anything breaking us up.
I can’t quit you, Bulls!
I’ve found I can’t “break up” with the Bulls. I’ve tried. I’ve had days where I scream and yell about the Bulls and their endless supply of bullshit. Still the next day I’ll be back on this site. Hell, I’ve broken up with girlfriends because of the Bulls (game 7 Celtics-Bulls was the demise of one). The truth of the matter, and we all need to realize this, is that you can’t break up with the Bulls. You just have to drink more.
by jf111847 on Jul 25, 2009 2:23 PM CDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Mine was after the 98 season
I was so pissed that my favorite team was broken up, I didn’t watch the NBA at all. It was easier since they went on strike anyway that season and only played 50 games.
"In essence, our guys are complementary-type players. We still have to find a mix that works and is balanced."-John Paxson
I’m Chi City til I die, so I will always be a Bulls fan. Like a lot of you, I went away to school after the dynasty, I went to FL for college in 99…stopped watching NBA altogether until around 2007. I’m moving to Portland next year, but I’ll still ride out with the Bulls. No matter how much I stand the front office.
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