Blog a Bull: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: Spencer Hall's Sports Meme Power Rankings

[From the Fanshots. I can't wait to read this. Jerry Reinsdorf: basketball scout. -ed.]

There's a lot of stuff in here, and I don't know where to begin with it. Basically, he calls Gordon a "fourth guard," and refuses to endorse VDN again.

4 months ago Tiny Big D 306 comments 3 recs  | 

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Hinrich is clearly better... Sigh
Ben wasn’t going to get a whole lot of playing time. His time was going to be diminished.

by bull83 on Jul 20, 2009 7:09 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Hilarious

Because we have Salmons locked in for one season? Really, Jerry? It will be really enjoyable spending the next off season trying to find a starting SG once Salmons leaves. And I doubt we’ll be getting Wade or anyone we’d have to actually pay.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Jul 20, 2009 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Because he will likely have a decent season

and want to be paid. And Jerry has trouble paying players who want money. Players who will easily be labeled as “too old” to lock in for 3-5 years and play with Rose.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Jul 20, 2009 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow...

Your optomism is magnetic.

"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG

by Khalid El-Amin on Jul 20, 2009 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You don't think that's realistic?

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jul 21, 2009 7:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Come now.

I didn’t even have to stretch for that one. It was pretty much logical.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Jul 21, 2009 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why

We always like the underdog. Ben was a top 3 pick, so he had haters from year 2 when he couldn’t be Jordan.

Salmons was a 26th pick journeyman….who suddenly learned how to play the NBA game 1.5 years ago….that screams Reinsdorfian type guy…see Kenny Williams, John Paxson, Vinny Del Negro, Randy Brown, Chris Singleton, etc etc etc etc through the years.

Thurston Moore is a rock god

by majoyenrac on Jul 21, 2009 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

but

The bulls love handing out money too playerd who are obviously too old to fit their long term plans. Only reason they should resign salmons if he opts out is if they actually land a free agent and can contend.

by Sambossanova on Jul 21, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A few thoughts:

-Vinny is SOOOO gone the first time the Bulls go on a long losing streak (the circus trip?). How easy is it for the owner to say a few nice things about the coach? I seem to remember Reinsdorf always praising Skiles, and now he claims he doesn’t comment on coaches. So get ready for yet another wasted season with an interim coach.

-JR confirms that the Bulls pulled the offer to Gordon last summer. And once again, he says nothing about any “deadline.” He simply says the Bulls decided to wait and see if something else came up during the season. The Salmons deal came up, and apparently that sealed Gordon’s fate here. And I’m not even going to bother addressing the “fourth guard” comment.

-The organization seems to still be high on Deng. Reinsdorf calls him a potential All-Star; it’s been a while since I heard anyone refer to him like that. I can’t help but compare the way Deng has been treated by this franchise to the way Gordon has been treated. Gordon has been much more productive (not to mention durable) the last two years, but that doesn’t seem to matter to the front office.

Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0

because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger

by Big D on Jul 20, 2009 7:09 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Spin Cycle, Repeat

Orgspeak but…

We wanted Ben back for one year for an unreported sum of money.

I’ll go with “making shit up for $1000” please.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Jul 21, 2009 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Writers

Missed the obvious follow-up question on that one…otherwise, they didn’t do a bad job.

by RichKarp on Jul 21, 2009 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Most writers would have asked that

But KC Johnson ain’t most writers….it’s a shame.

Thurston Moore is a rock god

by majoyenrac on Jul 21, 2009 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

KC wasn't the only one there

he said the beat guys from the other 2 papers (Brian Hanley and Mike McGraw) were there as well.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 21, 2009 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I stand corrected

Sorry I took it on KC as the article was KC’s….

Thurston Moore is a rock god

by majoyenrac on Jul 21, 2009 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh

no wonder there were actually some real questions that were borderline tough and skeptical.

by Sambossanova on Jul 21, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Forman did say that

but you can kinda tell in the interview, based on JR’s responses, that Forman is capable of “GM speak” and is in place to do so. So I think the organization is making more of an attempt to be opaque in its wheelings and dealings to avoid maybe situations like the Gasol fiasco and getting Kobe, where fans think the Bulls didnt do enough to get them (they didn’t.)

don't let the bed bugs bite

by Rex Grossman on Jul 21, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he says nothing about any "deadline."

That was certainly weird, wasn’t it?

Shoutout to d-bag commenter StephenAA, I guess Reinsdorf wasn’t merely keeping to his word (which ‘is what it’s all about’, right?) when pulling the offer to Gordon. It was a basketball decision from GarPax!

(or he’s lying and he did pull an offer due to a deadline…)

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 21, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No deadline...

Actually gives me more respect for GarPaxDorf…They were rejected by the player and decided to move on from there, knowing they had the right to match if anyone else would have made an offer…I had previously thought that BG has held them hostage all Summer because of the deadline or whatever, but now I see that once they were rejected, they moved on…

" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem

is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger

by Dionysus2.0 on Jul 21, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Deadline? Did you say Deadline?

“he says nothing about a deadline”
Conclusion: Therefore, there was not one!?
hmmmmm… Jumping to conclusions?

Sammy and KC were not the only ones to report a deadline, if I recall. Besides, I believe JR DID comment on a deadline before in a previous interview.

Ladies and Gentleman of bitch-about-the-bulls , (my apologies), blog-a-bull: Let’s put our thinking caps on:
If they just pulled the offer without giving a deadline, I have a hard time believing BG wouldn’t have mentioned it at all this past season. He would have been telling everyone, and yes I mean everyone, that he was ready to sign and the Bulls pulled the offer without any warning. I mean, com’on Matt, think about it.

But is a deadline really the issue with you? Or is it just blinded hatred towards the Bulls FO. BG was given ample time to accept their offer, BOTH YEARS! But oh ya, JR’s the evil one here, huh…

Your name-calling still hurts… :)

by StephenAA on Jul 21, 2009 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Doesn't matter

Deadline or no, promise or no, earlier long-term extensions rejected or not, offer or failure to make offer to match the Pistons…..doesn’t matter. The front office screwed up. They let their best scorer walk to a division rival and got nothing in return.

If you can’t see the error in that or find room to criticize the front office for that, then you are just an apologist for Reinsdorf and the crap he continues to peddle to the fans.

by nateroth on Jul 21, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well...

“They let their best scorer walk to a division rival and got nothing in return. If you can’t see the error in that…”
Well, that wasn’t the issue Matt and I were talking about now was it?!

It would have been nice to get something in return for BG, sure. But that’s how the donino’s fall sometimes. You can’t “win” them all. (I was one who wanted BG on this team only in a 6th man role and at the “right” price)

But as a whole, I believe Pax has done a very good job in his tenure with the Bulls FO. The Salmon/Miller trade was a “win” for the Bulls. They have positioned themselves nicely for 2010.

“or find room to criticize the front office for that”
And no, I have never posted that you can’t criticize the Bulls FO, as you say (the Wallace signing was a “lose”). Seems you’re hatred is as blinding as Matt’s.

by StephenAA on Jul 21, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

what did Pax do again?

signed Salmons/Miller, which worked out because John Salmons had the best few months of his career.

and what else?

by darksmokepuncher on Jul 21, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Paxson's drafted

Well considering the placings, very well…..no real mistakes and even his biggest mistake perhaps is Thabo, who was still traded for a first rounder and can really play.

Tyrus THomas maybe should have been Brandon Roy, but still I’m high on Thomas.

Thurston Moore is a rock god

by majoyenrac on Jul 21, 2009 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no real mistakes?

regardless of how you feel about Tyrus, trading away a better player for him was a mistake. we also didn’t bother looking at brandon roy, even though we were certain that Ben was a 6th man.

thabo was a definite mistake.
other than that, all Pax has done is make the move that’s right in front of his face. that’s hardly something I would commend him for.

by darksmokepuncher on Jul 21, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What?

Oh the Aldridge thing….hmmm. I don’t think Aldridge would be nearly as successful in Chicago as he’s been in Portland…as he wouldn’t have Roy next to him or solid contributions day one from the variety of bigs to mask his rebounding and D shortcomings. He’s better on the scoring side of the ball, but I think Tyrus is far better defensively and in talent they’re a wash.

We shouldn’t have even had Tyrus in the first place, but a bit of genius from Pax (though someone in the Bulls inner circle thought it up, Pax had to sell it) allowed for that swindle.

I don’t think we thought of Ben as a 6th man permanently, and our group of guards was looking very good then, and actually that group of guards (Even the dreaded by me Duhon) wouldn’t have been a problem had Ben Wallace held up…the guards have been fine, it’s the post play that’s been an issue, and is improving.

If Ben Wallace was what we’d hoped, we would ahve had Ben Wallace-PJ and then Joe Smith manning the post with Noah and Tyrus working their games in, rather than have Wallace crap out on the team a good 2 full years early (if not 2.5 years early, and not just kind of crap out, majorly and totally crap out) and Tyrus and Noah were given a bigger role on an allegedly “contending” team 2 years ago than we ever thought they’d be that quickly when they were drafted….

Thurston Moore is a rock god

by majoyenrac on Jul 21, 2009 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lamarcus Aldridge is a better player than Tyrus Thomas.

that’s all I said, and its not even debatable. LaMarcus Aldridge averages 7.5 rebounds a game; hardly a shortcoming. As far as defense goes, I doubt it gets much worse than giving up career point totals to guys like Kendrick Perkins and Andrea Bargnani. Tyrus is usually completely lost on defense, or way out of position.

I’ll trade in Tyrus’ flashy blocks for a big man who can draw some of the defense’s attention. I think we’ve all seen enough off-balance jumpers and floaters taken simply because the opposing team’s frontcourt has no reason to leave the paint.

The F.O. always thought of Ben Gordon as a sixth man, and that interview should make that blatantly clear. Our group of guards looked good because they were hitting jumpers. Everyone in the league knew that wasn’t going to last.

If Ben Wallace has worked out…….our frontcourt would still stink. Besides, he was a one-dimensional, aging player. Why on earth would we think that he would work out? I’m not even sure what that last sentence says…..but if the idea is that Tyrus and Noah needed Ben Wallace and PJ Brown to cover for them until they were ready, well that just blows my mind. Tyrus and Noah were both top 10 draft picks. Ben Wallace and PJ Brown aren’t even in the league anymore.

by darksmokepuncher on Jul 21, 2009 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tyrus

Ain’t a CENTER, never been a center so calling out Perkins and Bargnani, 2 centers is crazy.

Look at overall effectiveness, LMA and Tyrus are equal there, Tyrus actually I believe has shown to be more effective.

Lamarcus got a lot more playing time, but once TYrus found his niche in the 2nd half of the year his stats jumped ridiculously.

If Ben Wallace worked out we would have had all the depth and then some we’d need with Tyrus, Joe Smith and Noah on the sidelines. We’d have the D with Tyrus-Noah and of course Wallace, the explosiveness with Tyrus and Noah and the jump shooting and consistency of Joe Smith the last 2 years. Ben Wallace was a borderline superstar in Detroit with his defense….ridiculously great.

I think it’s a lot easier to get a lot of good open looks when you play next to a guy who gets the attention that Brandon Roy demands….and the rest of that club….plus the solid coaching of McMillan. None of which we’ve consistently seen in the Tyrus years.

Why wouldn’t we think Ben Wallace would have worked out? Did you ever watch him on the Pistons? He was absolutely sensational, no question about it.

Tyrus was drafted to be a project player. He wasn’t drafted to step in and be a star from day one. THat was the known thing about him when he was drafted. WHen Ben Wallace crapped out Tyrus was thrown into a bigger position than was originally thought about 2 yeras earlier than we would have liked. By late last year was probably the year in their minds that they would have tried going more to Tyrus in the ideal situation….heck when Tyrus was a minor minutes guy early, playing just enough to see the potential, Bulls fans were in awe. There’s still a great deal of hope with him.

It mostly was Wallace and JOE SMITH to cover for them until they were ready….and it’s hard to throw a 2nd year project and a rookie (Noah then) on a team that is supposed to be a contender as a major role like we were forced to do….

I think our frontcourt has a lot of hope still. There’s gobs of potential there, don’t judge a 22 year old too early just yet, especially an already pretty effective 22 year old…

Thurston Moore is a rock god

by majoyenrac on Jul 22, 2009 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

then lets call him out on anderson varejao

career high 26 points to a forward with no offensive game whatsoever.

or Kenyon Martin’s season high 26, and kenyon’s not exactly the most gifted offensive player either.

where was tyrus when Pops Mensah Bonsu decided to have his own personal dunk contest during a game?

Lamarcus > Tyrus. Tyrus has flirted with being labeled a bust, and LaMarcus is one of the best at his position out West.

I’d keep going, but I just realized that you used the terms “ridiculously great” and “sensational” when describing Ben Wallace. ……….

..
you’re not serious right? the guy got rebounds and played defense on an already superb defensive team with guys around him who could stretch the floor.

By that logic, I guess we should really go out and get Chris Anderson. He’s absolutely splendiferous.

by darksmokepuncher on Jul 22, 2009 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

btw, its contract time for the Birdman

I wonder who will offer him $14 million/year first.

by darksmokepuncher on Jul 22, 2009 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

andersen already re-upped with denver

he got like a 5/25 deal or something.

"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"

by Jaina on Jul 22, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

thanks, I didn't hear about that

nothing better than a solid, reasonable contract for a role player.

by darksmokepuncher on Jul 22, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ben Wallace

WAS a great player, no if’s and’s or but’s about it. He won 4 DPOY’s and really could have won 5 if not for the Artest year or Camby year (first year in Chicago) where Ben Wallace came on strong after a slow start.

He was a phenomenal player for the Pistons in his prime. Sure it was one way, but he was a top 3 C in his prime easy….

I know he sucked 2 years ago for us and totally quit on the Bulls, but there’s no discounting what he did prior to Chicago.

And why all this Chris Anderson $14M/year crap?

Guys can get some points here or there on even the best players in the league. Tyrus is what 1.5 years younger than Lamarcus, and improving. Statistically they’re a lot closer than the rep, and TYrus is now in position to play more for us.

As for your logic, why was Ben Wallace a 4 time DPOY? Oh that’s right because he’s awful…

Sure he sucked for us, but get real.

Tyrus wouldn’t be considered a bust if he had a good coaching staff and consistent development team to work with in Chicago. He’s still very young, and has made big strides in improving his game.

Few 22 year olds with his upside who already have proven themselves to be solid players when given the playing time are labelled as busts.

Chicago also is a tougher market to play in because of this close minded views of our players and what they shuold be.

Tyrus will be a better player than Chandler by far, and Tyson when healthy is a very good player in this league.

Hang on and wait.

Thurston Moore is a rock god

by majoyenrac on Jul 22, 2009 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also

I’d love to see LMA shut down Lebron, like Tyrus did a few times when asked to play that assignment….

Thurston Moore is a rock god

by majoyenrac on Jul 22, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lebron went off for 41 points on us.....twice in this season alone

you call that shutting down? that was an awful example to use.

Ben Wallace didn’t quit so much as he got old and sucked. The Pistons saw it coming, and thats why they didn’t bother resigning him. At no point in his career was he ever worth $14 million a year. Only the bulls were stupid enough to offer him that. That blame goes directly on to the front office.

he was a 4 time dpoy for the pistons. how many dpoy awards did he win with us? zero. its the front-offices job not just to look at a player’s stats, but evaluate what they can bring to this team.

btw, those excuses for tyrus are laughable. its the coaching staff, its because he’s young, its because he’s playing in Chicago.

http://www.82games.com/0809/08CHI14.HTM

or maybe its because he only shoots 39% on shots from considered “close” to the basket. for a reference point, Kirk shoots 53% and is pretty bad around the basket.

so just to get this straight, when we get a new coaching staff, tyrus gets older, and we move the team to another city, we’ll have a solid PF?

btw, Tryus turns 23 next month. how about we make 24 the cutoff for the age excuse?

by darksmokepuncher on Jul 22, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

my apologies for the miserably disjointed rant

having to talk about Ben Wallace screws with my mind.

by darksmokepuncher on Jul 22, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pistons offered him

4 yrs $48M…..that is a fact. He took more money with Chicago which they weren’t going to match.

In fact after his sucktitude, Cleveland were ready to give him a shot and the buzz was still there after that trade…

I am not saying Ben Wallace worked out….but the theory of Ben Wallace wasn’t a bad signing, sure the money was a little steep to say the least, but if he gave 90% of the Pistons production, it would have been a decent enough signing as a guy who could have completed the puzzle.

Tyrus wasn’t guarding Lebron all the time, WHEN ASKED for that assignment though Tyrus did shut down Lebron on occasion.

I am not saying Ben worked for us, that would be a ridiculous comment. I’m saying at the time given what Wallace was in Detroit and the success he had there as a monster C, in theory it was a good risk to take. Sure the money was high, but if he worked out we would have been in great shape.

I wouldn’t discount any player with Tyrus’s kind of upside even at 24. Theories are that post players typically take 3 full years AFTER a 4 year college to fully mature and show where they are, that’s 25-26 years old.

Tyrus whenever he gets playing time, typically succeeds. One bad series against the Celtics ain’t enough to squash all the hopes. I think the Bulls are foolish not to lock him into a 4 yr $7-8M deal this summer….

Thurston Moore is a rock god

by majoyenrac on Jul 22, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tyrus has not shut down Lebron

Look, I wish Tyrus had gotten more playing time too and I think his development has been handled really poorly. But his is not a good player. Aldridge is a good player. At this point, it’s ridiculous to compare the two. When Tyrus got time last year he was very mediocre and most disappointingly he stopped rebounding.

by hitlesswonder on Jul 22, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Disagree

But I’m done talking. The stats don’t lie, and in Feb and March Tyrus was a ridiculous double double machine.

I do agree that his rebounding slowed, but he proved he can do a lot of the rest.

I don’t know what you’re watching…take off the I hate Tyrus goggles though and rewatch him fresh this year.

Thurston Moore is a rock god

by majoyenrac on Jul 22, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he rarely ever had the assignment on lebron

but he got a key block on him in our win. that’s the only time i really remember him covering james at all, and i assume the instance which majoyenrac is referring to. if there is another occasion, i don’t remember it, but still, he did do an admirable job on that play. though i think it was just that time. he didn’t get much of a shot otherwise.

"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"

by Jaina on Jul 22, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In the 2nd half

Of that game, esp in the 4th, Tyrus was switched time and again on Lebron, and really slowed him, highlighted by the block you’re referring to.

He also did an admiral job of lock down D on some of the other stars late in the year…

Been a while, Lebron obviously stands out the most, but Tyrus ain’t bad, and certainly seems to scream value deal the next 4 years at $7-8M a pop….

Sure he was awful to start last year, but he did work on his shot and improved more than the stats show. His form was there, but like everything else with Tyrus, it’s all on timing….I hope more work on drills and perhaps 3 on 3 type of games he’ll figure that out more.

Having new systems and new coaches in 3 of his 4 years in the league certainly haven’t helped (I guess Boylan ran Skiles-fast, if he ran anything, but Boylan wasn’t one to judge a player on anyway)..

Thurston Moore is a rock god

by majoyenrac on Jul 22, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's nice and all

but if we don’t find a decent scorer before Tyrus turns 25-26 years old, do you really think Derrick is going to stick around?

by darksmokepuncher on Jul 22, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

Money talks—we can offer him more money, we also have wiggle room next year to find that “decent scorer”.

Thurston Moore is a rock god

by majoyenrac on Jul 22, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I left out the "front court" in that "decent scorer"

if we don’t find a decent front court scorer, we don’t win anything.

I don’t think Derrick cares to lose.

by darksmokepuncher on Jul 22, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If we had

D. Wade, we’d be more that set….

Thurston Moore is a rock god

by majoyenrac on Jul 22, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not hatred

I don’t think it makes any sense to have a pissing contest with Ben Gordon over a deadline. If he’s not happy with your initial offer and you want to keep him, then increase it. If you don’t want to keep him, then trade him. Instead you make a huge mistake and then rely on the fact that he missed a deadline to accept the offer?

Pointing that out doesn’t make one a “hater” of the front office. Just frustration at hearing the same things from them without the team making any progress.

Paxson has proven to be good at dumping bad contracts and getting payroll flexibility, which is the real sport in this for his owner. Our record lines up pretty closely to the Clippers since July 1998. One playoff series win…….several rebuilding efforts…….awful personnel decisions……….tens of millions in profits for the owner.

by nateroth on Jul 21, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

100's of millions, actually.

Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.

by stupidgenius on Jul 21, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

my conclusion

was that if sticking to his word was so important, surely ‘dorf would’ve mentioned that as a motive.

Though it was mostly a convoluted excuse to call you names.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 21, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t give votes of confidence.

::::dead:::::

I was watching the 1995 Playoffs VS the Magic's and remembered how much I hated Horace Grant. Horace Grant - i hope you burn in bball hell

by Belize on Jul 20, 2009 7:16 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

there are so many classic quotes on here

good find!

I was watching the 1995 Playoffs VS the Magic's and remembered how much I hated Horace Grant. Horace Grant - i hope you burn in bball hell

by Belize on Jul 20, 2009 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

jeez

I think he says nastier things in private about VDN than blogabull does.

don't let the bed bugs bite

by Rex Grossman on Jul 20, 2009 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So Pau Gasol is the third best player on the Lakers

Who’s the second best? I’m guessing the Chairman doesn’t watch much basketball outside of the Bulls. Then again, judging by this interview I’m not sure how much of the Bulls he watches.

Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0

because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger

by Big D on Jul 20, 2009 7:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

he washed his hands

of responsibility in the article. He basically said Gar and Pax do everything and he kind of nods then fades back into the shadows. Its scary….

don't let the bed bugs bite

by Rex Grossman on Jul 20, 2009 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol..were talking about a guy that believes this:
But the only way you can avoid making a mistake is not to make a decision.

I was watching the 1995 Playoffs VS the Magic's and remembered how much I hated Horace Grant. Horace Grant - i hope you burn in bball hell

by Belize on Jul 20, 2009 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

actually

im taking that quote

The only way you can avoid making a mistake is not to make a decision . Our Owner´s philosophy-

by Belize on Jul 20, 2009 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are taking that out of context.

He is saying the opposite, he says even Jerry West makes mistakes and that he is the best in the business.

by McCabe on Jul 20, 2009 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

gotta have balls

thats my quote

The only way you can avoid making a mistake is not to make a decision . Our Owner´s philosophy-

by Belize on Jul 20, 2009 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was saying that

To defer blame that we should have had Gasol. Last I looked a healthy Gasol took the Grizz to a 50 win record in the stacked West, where their second best player was probably Shane Battier….

Surely the Bulls with Kirk-Ben-Luol-Gasol could have had something on the Grizz of Miller-Gasol-Battier…..and add that Pau improved dramatically. What happened to Pau was he got hurt….and Memphis decided to try to save some cash rather than keep investing with the legitimate PF they have…

Thurston Moore is a rock god

by majoyenrac on Jul 21, 2009 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Didn't the Griz want two of our core guys?

That lineup of Kirk-Ben-Luol-Gasol would not have happened if the trade did go through.

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Jul 21, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the one year they did

the next year they just wanted cap relief (and got it)

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 21, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And then used that cap space to trade for Z-Bo

Which I don’t get at all.

Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.

by stupidgenius on Jul 21, 2009 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Protip:

Simmons isn’t right with everything, but when he says ‘Making a deal with the Grizzlies means that you win the deal’, he’s right.
:P

Vinny Del Negro Offensive Gameplan, Part 1
-When there's less than 30 seconds left in the game, that's me with my hands cupped around my mouth yelling.
"BEN! SHOOT! SHOOOOTTTT!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO ME?!?"
-This segues nicely into my Timeout Management classes - order now!

by Prevenge on Jul 21, 2009 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even if it was 2 guys

A Kirk-SG Filler-Tyrus Thomas-Pau Gasol-Joakim Noah/Ben Wallace-Nocioni combo would be great….

As would a
PG Filler-Ben Gordon-Tyrus Thomas-Pau Gasol-Noah/Wallace trade…

Thurston Moore is a rock god

by majoyenrac on Jul 21, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lets not kid ourselves here, Ben Wallace could barely play next to Lebron, let alone Gasol.

Noah wasn’t nearly as good around the time of that Gasol trade, Tyrus couldn’t give us 25 good minutes and many of us question if he even can now. He had a solid half season but where was he around playoff time? If he misses that long jumper early in the series against Boston everybody probably calls for his head.

I don’t particularly love either of those lineups with Gasol. Sure, throw in Rose, pretend Deng would get injured (at the time of the trade Deng was pretty well regarded), sell all of our guys high knowing in hindsight that a lot of them fell in value, yes it would’ve been a slightly positive value trade. But at the time it was not a good one for us.

It does bother me that the Lakers got Gasol for so little, but there is no evidence that Chicago balked on a similar deal.

by RyPac13 on Jul 21, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ben Wallace

Last year, you’re right.

Ben Wallace of 2.5 years ago when the original trade almost ocurred….we’d have been fantastic.

Ben wouldn’t start, we’d still have Noah, Noah and Gasol would be ridiculous together, with the passing and actually we’d maximize Pau’s game.

Thurston Moore is a rock god

by majoyenrac on Jul 21, 2009 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

JR

must have never considered BG better than a sixth man.

don't let the bed bugs bite

by Rex Grossman on Jul 20, 2009 7:20 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

maybe not

But remember, he leaves those decisions to PaxGar. Of course he does.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 20, 2009 7:29 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Not even a sixth man - a fourth guard

That means there’s a third guard off the bench who would be ahead of Gordon in the rotation! At least he had Gordon ahead of the equipment manager.

Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0

because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger

by Big D on Jul 20, 2009 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Before the draft, Paxson said

…they needed a “point guard”, according to JR?

What was Kirk, then, at that time?

That caught me more than anything.

I always thought Rose was the “best player available” that caused duplication because he was the BPA — not a pick filling our * void * at point guard that already was filled by a 10 million dollar player.

What did they think Kirk was then?

by RichKarp on Jul 21, 2009 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

probably that he was a combo guard, which is what he really is.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Jul 21, 2009 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe they had already planned on letting duhon go

so they needed another pg? This whole interview is kinda wierd…

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Jul 21, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it wasn't as much as

it seems that JR is a pain in the ass to interview. They should catch him while he is exiting a brothel, maybe then he’ll give, not necessarily better answers, but answers that aren’t as coy and ambiguous.

don't let the bed bugs bite

by Rex Grossman on Jul 21, 2009 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It would be a crappy interview..

If he didn’t express an opinion.

" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem

is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger

by Dionysus2.0 on Jul 21, 2009 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

who does?

it is so frustrating that the best place to chat about the bulls is dominated by a whiny drama queen moderator with a man crush on an average SG......6 recs

by BigforkBullsFan on Jul 21, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A few things that stuck out to me:

- Good to hear his lack of encouragement on VDN. He’s quite a seasoned PR man.

- The Gordon stuff was a little extreme, but what Coach, Gm or Owner do you know that wouldn’t try to spin it that way?

(Side note) What it comes down to is Gordon wasn’t a great long term investment at the 2 guard for the type of money he wanted. If Detroit hadn’t come along who would’ve paid him the same money he turned down last summer? Sure, if BG gave us the same production as he did last year for the next 5 years, maybe it’s a breakeven deal. Once you account for possible injuries and a decline in skill and a decline in revenues next year and possibly beyond, I would be more upset if we had signed him for ~11 a year and it would’ve been a bad value. On the other hand, my fellow fans won’t be so bitter if we trade for Boozer or sign Wade next year and that gets us deeper into the playoffs, so I can understand all the resentment currently being posted here. Until the Bulls make a decent move everybody is going to be upset. It was similar before the excellent Miller/Salmons trade last year, everybody was harping about how we kept missing the boat on good trades and that we don’t do anything.

- I hope the Bulls do more for the community than paint some boys and girls clubs. Usually management likes to play up charity, so I hope this isn’t the most flattering thing the Bulls are doing for the community.

- Gasol is the 2nd best Laker, but JR made a decent point here in that the Lakers had a much easier decision to pursue him. Kobe (big drop) Gasol (large but not quite as big drop) Odom (drop bc of injury otherwise no drop) Bynum flanked by a seasoned vet like Fischer and up and coming players like Ariza, Farmar and a decent bench player like Walton, the Lakers are definitely worlds ahead of the Bulls. Think about what our roster would look like if we had given up Deng and/or Gordon and/or picks/young players for Gasol. We very likely would not have Rose on our roster now as well, though that pick didn’t seem to be worth so much so we wouldn’t even think twice.

- The one thing that worries is that JR might apply the same reasoning to a potential Bosh or Boozer trade. Boozer won’t come so expensive so that theory probably doesn’t apply to him, but what do you think it will take to pick up Bosh? If it includes Noah, Deng and Salmons, how happy is everybody going to be? Depending on what the trade would look like, it might be a lot to swallow and I’m worried JR will apply the same reasoning to this trade as he did with Gasol. We do have Rose now, so at least we’re not gutting our entire roster if we deal for a star, but the issue remains and it worries me a bit.

- I like the words about Deng. I know Deng didn’t fit too well right away with Rose, but if we can get a low post scorer like Boozer or Bosh, Deng would seem like a great fit on the wing at the 3 (or small lineup 4) spot. I’m more worried about Salmons and how he plays this year. We’ll need a lot of ball movement and I didn’t see much of that from him. I don’t want our iso man to be Salmons at the 2 (or 3) because I don’t feel like we can go that deep that way.

- D’antoni comments were interesting. I’m still not happy about our coaching hire in VDN, especially after watching him for a season. I hope we can turn our attention to a higher quality coach in the near future. I didn’t love him personally, but I really liked the way Avery worked with Dallas. I think he would do well for our team, particularly on defense and with Rose.

Thanks for posting this, it was a good read.

by RyPac13 on Jul 20, 2009 7:35 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

About Gasol

I think Matt made this point during the gordon stuff. You have to collect assets. No, Gasol on the bulls did not put them in the finals. But fast forward to 2010, Lebron/Wade are a lot more likely to come here if Gasol is here. Not wanting good players because they are the BEST player is an insane philosophy.

by The90sBullsRevival on Jul 20, 2009 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not to mention someone might

be excited about getting Gasol back in a trade. Who is that exciting on the Bulls now? An asset will always be an asset be it long term or short term. Having guys to include in trades would have helped this off season for example.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Jul 20, 2009 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was not only about getting Gasol

but the the contracts that the Memphis wanted to send with him that would have hurt the team.

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Jul 21, 2009 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He might have put us in top 4 which to JR is a success

And add in that Gasol can “score points” and thus would have worked well enough with Wallace especially at that time….

Thurston Moore is a rock god

by majoyenrac on Jul 21, 2009 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Gordon comment was hilarious. Oh no, here comes Pargo…and Salmons….yep there were no available minutes for our best scoring guard.

JR is a joke…he couldn’t even spin it right. Everyone knows Ben wasn’t worth all that money but make it seem like he contributed something…made Ben look like a D-Leaguer.

by C Smoove on Jul 20, 2009 7:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

seriously

just say Rose is our future and Ben wasn’t the ideal backcourt partner (due to his height/defense)

by The90sBullsRevival on Jul 20, 2009 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well if Reinsdorf isn't fond of Vinny, then I'd be careful not to label VDN as a bad coach.

Whatever Reinsdorf hates usually turns out to be something special…

"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"

by exult463 on Jul 20, 2009 8:05 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Such as?

Give an example or three of things/players/people Reinsdorf “hates” that turned out to be something special.

by kozzer on Jul 21, 2009 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Phil Jackson and Michael Jordan just to name 2

"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"

by exult463 on Jul 21, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jackson left because of Krause, and Jordan left because Jackson left

but really, your point doesn’t make sense anyway. They didn’t “become something special” after they left, they had already won the titles. That team had already been fracturing for a couple years by the end of the 98 season. If you think Reinsdorf wanted Jackson and Jordan out of there, I don’t know what to tell you.

by kozzer on Jul 21, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He didn't want them in the first place.

After they became cash cows, he was fine with it, but until then, he didn’t like them.

Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.

by stupidgenius on Jul 21, 2009 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reinsdorf things Pargo is better than Gordon

God help us all.

Vinny Del Negro Offensive Gameplan, Part 1
-When there's less than 30 seconds left in the game, that's me with my hands cupped around my mouth yelling.
"BEN! SHOOT! SHOOOOTTTT!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO ME?!?"
-This segues nicely into my Timeout Management classes - order now!

by Prevenge on Jul 20, 2009 8:10 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Can't call him rookie coach anymore...

but can’t call him coach either. Novice? Hm. I prefer “naive”.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Jul 20, 2009 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Couldn’t of said it any better…

by RyPac13 on Jul 20, 2009 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm gonna hate myself later for this

but Vinnie’s final record, I think, reflected the talent and experience level of the team.

And he improved from extraordinarily terrible to only run-of-the-mill bad as the season went on.

by Sports2 on Jul 20, 2009 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

ehhh

we are better than 7th seed in the east. I dont think the hawks are better than us.

by The90sBullsRevival on Jul 20, 2009 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How many more mistakes could have made in the Celtics series?

He was awful. We just know it could have been even worse so we let him pass.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Jul 21, 2009 8:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Rookie point guard. Stoner center. Project Power Forward. Short SG (kidding). Injured SF. 41-41. not bad. although without the trade its looking like 32 – 50

by JockstrapNoah on Jul 21, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you weren't kidding about the other designations?

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 21, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nope

At the beginning of last season, that was pretty accurate. Noah was in awful shape. Tyrus was flinging alley oop passes into the stands.

by JockstrapNoah on Jul 21, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which Center?

"Worker bees can leave.
Even drones can fly away.
The Queen is their slave."

by jpchi on Jul 21, 2009 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Hah!

Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.

by stupidgenius on Jul 21, 2009 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Avery Johnson.

He is by far the best available…

" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem

is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger

by Dionysus2.0 on Jul 21, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yep.

I would’ve wanted Flip Saunders, Eddie Jordan or Rick Carlisle….but… other teams made smarter moves. Now it’s Avery or bust!

Unless we want to give another first-timer a shot: Mark Jackson or Greg Anthony anyone???

Or… how about we lure Paul Silas out of retirement or whatever the fuck he’s doing these days?

by Rose Colored Goggles on Jul 21, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Next coach

Johnson seems to have really messed up Devon Harris while coaching the Mavs, and I hate to give him a shot at Rose. What about Mo Cheeks? Why has his star fallen so fast?

by El Toro de Goro on Jul 21, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think people feel his assistants were the real coaches (one in particular whose name I forget)

I agree about Johnson. I don’t want him and his plodding offense around Rose. I really wish they had hired Flip. But I’ll take a top assistant off a good team instead.

by hitlesswonder on Jul 21, 2009 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tom Thibodeau?

Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.

by stupidgenius on Jul 21, 2009 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Should have been able to land Saunders, I'll settle for a whiny Avery Johnson

The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.

by Ozzie Montana on Jul 21, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Only Reinsdorf can be professional.

Vinny Del Negro Offensive Gameplan, Part 1
-When there's less than 30 seconds left in the game, that's me with my hands cupped around my mouth yelling.
"BEN! SHOOT! SHOOOOTTTT!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO ME?!?"
-This segues nicely into my Timeout Management classes - order now!

by Prevenge on Jul 21, 2009 6:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Hawks have been better than us. Their coach is not as bad as ours. They have more overall talent from top to bottom.

by C Smoove on Jul 20, 2009 9:42 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think they had a 8 man rotation just about

And then when one guy got injured they were really limited. Iunno though their bench vs ours if we’re just forgetting injuries. We’d have Kirk-Salmons-Miller-Thomas off the bench. They had Zaza-Flip and eeerr whats that one dudes name oh yeah Evans.

by Camry on Jul 21, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This article gives me zero confidence

that the owner actually wants to win. He’s happiest watching other teams give out bad contracts.

He disgusts me. Sell the team.

by nateroth on Jul 20, 2009 10:12 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

This is the Torture of being a Bulls fan:

Loving the team and despising the owner. I would LOVE for JR to sell the team but who would have the money to buy them? Oprah? Kanye West? MJ and PIP? Michelle OBama?

"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta

by The Red Menace on Jul 20, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kanye West

That guy hates to lose ANYTHING lol.

by bigballa10 on Jul 21, 2009 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kanye's rich

but he doesn’t $500 million to buy the Bulls. He is maybe worth 500 million in total assets, but he doesn’t have that in current assets, no way. Not MJ either.

Oprah? Sure, but would you want Dr. Phil as VP of Basketball Operations?

by Rose Colored Goggles on Jul 21, 2009 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know

I just think it would be awesome if he did.

by bigballa10 on Jul 21, 2009 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dr. Phil as Benny the Bull would be better.

"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer

by Granny Waiters on Jul 22, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"He’s happiest watching other teams give out bad contracts"

This might just be Reinsdorf’s passion!

I bet he’s praying Luol turns it around…

"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"

by exult463 on Jul 21, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

that was an absurd comment to make, how can you love bad contracts on other teams, that just makes good players on your team want to earn what a great player would earn. Bad contracts just bloat the free agent market and cripple the flow of talent throughout the league.

don't let the bed bugs bite

by Rex Grossman on Jul 21, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am at the point I would rather keep Tyrus than trade for Boozer

I get this sense if we trade for Boozer we will regret it in the long run. Pax and Gar just might be right by waiting on an opportunity to land Bosh or STAT. Think about it, if TT is having this great off-season how much better is Boozer going to be than what we have?

Homecoming

by illwill on Jul 20, 2009 10:32 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

When does it end?

There’s always a new rookie contract coming in……if JJ is having a great off-season, how much better will we really get by adding another scorer? And we have cap flexibility!!

by nateroth on Jul 20, 2009 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reinsdorf is doing his "mafia don" from the movies imitation here, all the way through.

And what a damn downer walking into the locker room after the Celtics series and saying, “Just remember, everyone: when you’re going to sleep feeling good about yourselves, you lost.”

I can just see Tyrus Thomas’ head exploding upon hearing this.

"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris

by bullhockey on Jul 20, 2009 11:08 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

No wonder he and Mike North are such buddies.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 21, 2009 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think he has a decent point.

You cannot pay a shooting guard 55-58/5 to play 25-30 minutes a night. I only hope they can move Hinrich for a true backup and not some faux combo-guard so that we can get someone really good—though I am not sure who that would be.

by Super-Structure on Jul 21, 2009 1:58 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

And you can't play your back-up PG

9-10 million a year with to play 10-15 mins a game.
But we’ll forget about that.

by Edicus2288i on Jul 21, 2009 2:31 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Let me try again with no spelling errors!

And you can’t pay your back-up PG
9-10 million a year to play 10-15 mins a game.
But we’ll forget about that.

by Edicus2288i on Jul 21, 2009 2:32 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

You can if the back-up PG is a favorite of the local media and less educated fans,

and is like a son to the owner.

"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer

by Granny Waiters on Jul 21, 2009 3:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They already payed Hinrich.

There is no turning back the clock, no matter how much you may wish to. Once he is signed, the logic stands.

by Super-Structure on Jul 21, 2009 5:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is, though, because they had plenty of offers to get Hinrich for expiring contracts.

At the deadline last year, pre-July 1 this year, and even after July 1 this year, they could have got 2010-expirings. They absolutely could have washed themselves of that “mistake”, so your point is not valid.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jul 21, 2009 7:56 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

it really doesnt frustrate me that this organization doesnt want to pay ben that much

but it does frustrate me when they want to pay damndeng more than that instead of gordon. i mean if youre going to piss money away at least piss it on something that might do you some good

by sin on Jul 21, 2009 3:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hardly think Deng is the problem.

Two years ago he looked excellent. He was the most effective offensive player—or second—and was also the best defender on the team. Even in his “down year,” the season before last, he shot worse from the field (an appalling 48%) and was otherwise identical to the season prior.

It was disappointing to see him perform poorly next to Rose, but he had a rookie point guard as well as Drew Gooden and Larry fucking Hughes getting substantial minutes so I don’t feel inclined to blame it all on him. I only hope he doesn’t end up needing surgery for that fracture—knock on wood— so that we can see him play to his full potential.

by Super-Structure on Jul 21, 2009 5:36 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Deng was not the best defender two years ago.

Wallace and Thomas were. Deng was arguably the best all-around player.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jul 21, 2009 7:57 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

It's a great point

that when Deng played last year Hughes and Gooden were getting significant minutes…that was one f**ked up squad. I still always remember Deng rebounding like a monster during that span, that gives me hope….

by RichKarp on Jul 21, 2009 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And Noc

And Cedric Simmons. Well not really, but it was hard to argue why he shouldn’t get minutes behind Gooden and Noc.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Jul 21, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just read the interview and, unfortunately, it's just as I figured.

They let BG go because he didn’t accept their offer like a good troop. You’re going to let Salmons (did he play in the playoffs?) get minutes ahead of BG? They got nothing for him because of their arrogance and stupidity. This guy runs the team and “John and Gar” take orders. “John and Gar” supposedly made a lot of decisions which left us one ping pong ball short of last place. They are portraying Deng like some sort of near all-star while his contributions have been negligble. We’ll be better because Salmons and Miller will be with us for a full year. PLEASE. Better than whom? Providence?

Now they’ll ride Rose as our savior and you all will keep the United Center full because of MJ’s success 10-15 years ago!

There really isn’t any hope here….

always a great contribution.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 8:33 AM PST

by hhirb on Jul 21, 2009 6:06 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

JR is gangsta

You gotta love him. Brooklyn stand up :P

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Jul 21, 2009 7:54 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

*not to mention I can't verify they are lies

or more accurately, who’s lying when within the Org.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 21, 2009 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

because I think he really makes all the decisions and Gar and Pax are just puppets, I'm going to go

ahead and buy what JR says and think that Gar’s “re-signing Ben is a top priority” was just to appease fans who thought that Gordon should be brought back after the Celtics series.

Everything they’ve done matches up with JR’s version of events, and not the GarPax line about Ben’s importance. They pulled the offer off the table when Ben agreed to it (which makes no sense if you actually value the player), they then made a deal to acquire a stopgap guard with similar, albeit lesser, skills and better size, and then they didn’t even make Ben an offer this summer. It appears that JR’s story is the truer version of the events.

So if you’re mad about someone lying, be mad at Gar.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Jul 21, 2009 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I think the org

Was surprised when Ben, the guy who’s always been a pro’s pro came out publically and said that he never received a counter offer from Chicago….

The Bulls were hoping that Gar could say that resigning Ben was our top priority, fully knowing Ben was going unless nothing came in and we could keep him for one more year deal…and having Ben leave and still remain quiet about the goings on like he had done essentially in his 5 year tenure here (never really speaking poorly of the org and just saying “it’s a business” and he’ll do what he can do to help his teams going forward….

When Ben came out and said he never received a counter offer, the Bulls management got caught in their own lies…

Thurston Moore is a rock god

by majoyenrac on Jul 21, 2009 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

can I still be mad at JR too?

basically saying he won’t comment on some basketball matters (VDN) but will certainly comment on others. Though he did manage to drop the nugget that he gave Vinny a few extra hundred grand because he asked. whattaguy.

But you’re right that JR’s version of Gordon is likely the true one, and Gar was just there to blow smoke. But then JR says he lets GarPax make the basketball decisions, which is a lie.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 21, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think anyone really gives a shit about the he said/she said of the negotiations and PR statements

I, at least, could care less. What I do care about is the general aimlessness of this team, which is evident from the behavior of everyone from the top down.

by Sports2 on Jul 21, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

true, there are plenty of lies and for that, sure be mad. I just think he was pretty frank

with respect to the Gordon situation. He basically came out and said, we didn’t think very much of Ben Gordon and thought we’d be better longterm without him.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Jul 21, 2009 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah but is it truly 'we'

or ‘I’

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 21, 2009 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

We and I

Bulls decisions = we
Increased value of franchise = I

by El Toro de Goro on Jul 21, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Instead of being mad about the lies

about being mad about the dreadful evaluation of talent and lack of cogent plan this assessment indicates.

by Sports2 on Jul 21, 2009 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

that's the thing

 I can’t even be sure Reinsdorf is telling the truth about Gordon not fitting in. He’s possibly just saying that as a justification for not wanting to pay him.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 21, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

(and more importantly, pay the tax)

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 21, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He will pay the tax.
I wouldn’t mind paying the tax if it’s an intelligent expenditure. When you pay the tax, you have to do it for a player that’s worth it.

But the player has to be worth it…

If I felt we had a guy who would put us over the top and put us in the Finals, I’d pay the tax. I wouldn’t hesitate.

Obviously, no one player is going to guarantee a trip to the finals, but this team has never even been to conference finals, so I cannot imagine him paying the tax for .500 team that is barely making the playoffs.

" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem

is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger

by Dionysus2.0 on Jul 21, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Have you ever read or heard the Chairman say

“success is reaching the final four” or so to speak?

This is the first time I can recall him ever laying down his benchmark.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Jul 21, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because there is no benchmark, he's lying

The benchmark is when the Bulls make a miraculous deep playoff run.

Of course, if this present team could win 50 games and take the Cavs to 6 games, Reinsdorf could just say “our team is young, the more experience we have the better we’ll become.” When JR feels like spending money, he does. When he doesn’t, he’ll spew some BS that sounds reasonable.

The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.

by Ozzie Montana on Jul 21, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is what I was getting at...

Until the team improves to a demonstrable point, there will never be one player worth the tax…but, with the moves they have made in the front office, the team will not be good enough staying below the tax to make the conference finals…

" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem

is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger

by Dionysus2.0 on Jul 21, 2009 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who is worth it?

I appreciate the fact that the Chairman will go into luxury tax territory when he’s finally presented with that LeBron or Kobe offer. The problem is that no one who—in his estimation—is worth the tax, would actually want to play for a franchise that doesn’t pull the trigger to get a very good player (Gasol) or lets a very good player leave in free agency (Gordon) without making any effort to replace them.

The Bulls are one of the few “haves” in a league of “have nots” and they always squander that for payroll flexibility and more profits. He doesn’t want to win, he wants to make money.

by nateroth on Jul 21, 2009 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What if they had Gasol and were at 1 million under the cap???

And wanted a dead-eye shooter? Would paying Gordon and going over the tax be worth it? Nope. LIAR! You don’t go over the tax for a “single player”, you go over for an entire team. Considering the mistake they made w/ Wallace, paying the tax for a near-50-win team with solid veterans and inspired youth is well worth it for one of the most profitable teams in the NBA.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jul 21, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reinsdorf is full of it

I think we can all agree that Michael Jordan was worth whatever max contract you could possibly pay and he bitched about paying the greatest player of all time in the middle of championship dynasty! This stuff isn’t just about Gasol or BG, this is how he runs the organization. The thing I don’t get is, when they were winning they were the most popular team in the world. That’s more jersey sales, etc. JR cares about the Sox, not the Bulls.

by bigballa10 on Jul 21, 2009 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Who cares?

One way or another, it’s pretty stupid.

I don’t buy the “Reinsdorf is cheap and will never pay the tax” line in the strict sense anyway. The Bulls will clearly pay right up to it for a team of Kirks and Dengs, etc.

The problem seems to be that they’re utterly unwilling to think about incurring a short-run expense or move that might pay off down the road (like paying a 25 yr old SG who’s hard to replace instead of a 30 year old who’s not anywhere close to as good in the first place).

It could be about money, but it’s mostly about bad decisions.

by Sports2 on Jul 21, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he'd pay the tax in only the perfect situation.

Paying the tax now would have no immediate payoff, but it’d only be a season and if the Org. was proactive and thoughtful about such things it could’ve been an ‘efficient expenditure’.

I think it does matter if Reinsdorf was cheap or playing scout with regards to Gordon. I mean they’re both shitty options, but I’d almost rather he was adamant about the tax, and not meddling in personnel decisions instead of letting his basketball people do the work. Though it’s probably a bit of both. Obviously ‘dorf, with his platitudes about ’defense winning championships’ would never value Gordon too highly. But it’s not like much changed with Gordon on that end from the time he was offered 5/$50 and 6/$58 in successive years, which then makes it a money decision.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 21, 2009 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, to put it differently

There’s ample evidence the Bulls could have avoided the tax by dumping Kirk had they kept Ben.

So I think it’s clear that it’s at least partially a matter of personnel decisions and not finance.

by Sports2 on Jul 21, 2009 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who wouldn't say they'd pay the tax if

they were guaranteed the finals?

always a great contribution.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 8:33 AM PST

by hhirb on Jul 21, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And he says to be successful you make it to the Final Four

So is it the Final Four or the Finals where he would pay the tax?

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Jul 21, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Indeed, by the measure I think Jerry is implying ("good" conf finals team already, pushed to a champ by the acquisition)

we can assume the Lakers absolute theft of Gasol wouldn’t have happened and might not have been considered a success

1. The season the Lakers got him, they were coming off a first round playoff loss.
2. They proceeded to lose in the NBA Finals
3. They won the next year, but by then, I guess, Jerry would have traded Kobe for a bag of magic beans.

Interestingly enough, the Lakers were coming off a first round playoff loss and we were coming off a second round season when they got Gasol. :)

by Sports2 on Jul 21, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you think that "Perfect" situation will happen?

It’s relying to much on luck, IMO.

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Jul 21, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

but ‘dorf said in this interview that he’s had plenty of it already (Jordan, Rose)

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 21, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's the same old story

Keep telling us that it doesn’t make sense to pay the luxury tax to bring back a good player (Gordon) or to go out and try to make a trade for a good player (Gasol), because that team isn’t going to be good enough to win it all anyway. But when that golden opportunity does present itself in a few years, we sure will be ready to jump on it!!

Give us the promise of free agents flocking to play in Chicago (despite everything said about this organization from everyone involved in basketball—including our own legends—since the mid-1990s)…..talk up the rookies (who are on rookie contracts of course)……give us some more crap about community involvement, ticket giveaways (the same thing he does with the Sox)……..we’re putting the pieces in place, very carefully and prudently, so that a few years from now……..

Then just sit back and count your money. Rose is good for at least another three years of leading the league in profits, right?

It’s never going to change. This guy is Bill Wirtz all over again. Count your profits, take care of your family, make the occasional free agent splash but never go all out for a winner. You are a businessman, damn it!

He said it himself. Here’s to the best CEO in town. And a shitty owner of a basketball team.

by nateroth on Jul 21, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Or maybe Reinsdorf views Gordon as some other fans do.

Everyone I talk to outside of this blog always points out how he didn’t fit and that he shouldn’t be a starter. The opinion on him is split right down the middle and people who observe him, from my conversations, go either way. So it doesn’t surprise me that JR didn’t think he fit in or just didn’t value him.

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Jul 21, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol true that

but which 53%?

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Jul 21, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, that's the thing that bugs me the most. it's not that they lie about what they think of guys

it’s that they consistently overspend on gritty crap (Corpse, Noc, Hinrich) and then let guys go that are actually worth a damn (Gordon).

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Jul 21, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Just a weird interview from JR

How does he say he doesn’t comment on the coach but he then comments that BG wouldn’t have gotten much playing time? That didn’t make any sense. Is that something that he would’ve mandated? I just can’t stand this guy.

by bigballa10 on Jul 21, 2009 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

maybe that's the types of things 'he doesn't know about'

:-D

Reinsdorf showed hand on Deng: "I believe Luol is going to be an outstanding player. He’s already an outstanding person. "

That’s what matters in the ‘family’.

Though a question could be what makes Deng an outstanding person? His commendable aid work? Or saying that he regretted not taking an early extension? ::evil laugh::

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 21, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reinsforf made that Deng comment as p.r. speak (just in case) for TRADE VALUE.

Deng’s been in the league for 5 years now but hasn’t been to an all-star game yet.
Any derogatory comments as far as Deng’s status would have been counterproductive.

This is the same org that had Deng keep playing when most Bulls fans were going, “WTF is wrong with Luol this year!” The oh, he’s still learning how to play with Rose excuse really made no sense at all.

by KentuckyBullsFan on Jul 21, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

An "injury-free" Deng could be decent this year.

But I don’t trust this team making announcements as far as anyone’s health.

Otherwise, Salmons or the rookies will be playing small forward this year
(shudder).

by KentuckyBullsFan on Jul 21, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can you really be upset about Gar lying and saying re-singing Ben was a top priority?

Part of the reason the Pistons threw so much money at Ben was because they thought they were competing against the bulls. If the Pistons didn’t think the Bulls were interested in keeping Ben they probably would have been offering 9 or 10 per since they just have to compete against teams offering the midlevel.

Gar wasn’t just appeasing fans. He was providing source of pleasure to his boss who finds it strangely erotic when other teams overpay for players.

by silentpete on Jul 21, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

This makes Paxson

the one holding the mop in the end.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Jul 21, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think it's strange

For Reinsdorf to love seeing his competitors overpay for lesser talents….I love to see that as a fan of our org too cuz in theory it will eventually help us.

The rest of his b.s. though pisses me off.

Thurston Moore is a rock god

by majoyenrac on Jul 21, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not strange per se

It’s strange that he showed more emotion over that than he did for actually, you know, winning games.

by Sports2 on Jul 21, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

I wish he’d sell us to someone who cares…

Thurston Moore is a rock god

by majoyenrac on Jul 21, 2009 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is clearly CEO bullshit talk

I worked for a guy who had was kinda like CEO and CFO of a organization with a large budget. He came in maybe 20 hours a week and approved decisions and work done by other people. I easily worked 50+ hours a week doing all the leg work that he would sign off on and take credit for. He lied and manipulated the truth to always make him look like the good guy and would often pass blame (surprise surprise) to me in many situations to avoid conflict with the people he employed.

Long story short. JR is the one who is lying, just like every other CEO in the world. The only difference is the visibility of his position as the owner and CEO of two teams in one of the largest markets in the country. Say what you want about Gar-Pax and their skill as evaluators of talent, but they truly are puppets and I feel for them.

If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.

by Chi 'Till I Die on Jul 21, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You make some excellent points, but I don't feel for Gar-Pax

Phil Jackson, although a coach, was faced with similiar confortations and strategic player personnel planning situations with Reinsdorf, but held his ground and privately disputed with Reinsdorf’s other puppet at the time (Krause) and directly and indirectly with Dorf.

Dude.. Phil Jackson had balls and that is why he is now one of the greatest coaches ever!

"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"

by exult463 on Jul 21, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes you can

This article lays it all out there. Call him out on it.

According to him, things are going exactly according to his “plan” and we’ve got a team full of great people, great workers, solid citizens, the guys who left the team really couldn’t help us anyway, we have tremendous basketball minds in charge, and we’re in a position to make a big splash and really compete in a few years, when I will be all too happy to pay the luxury tax.

Repeat in 2006, 2009, 2012, 2015, etc. etc.

by nateroth on Jul 21, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

lol! dead on accurate

"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"

by exult463 on Jul 21, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe if you view him as J Theory suggest .. "JR is a gangsta" then his attitudes and decisions make sense!

"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"

by exult463 on Jul 21, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

I think that does help me actually.

by bigballa10 on Jul 21, 2009 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Jerry does watch the games.....

He just leaves at the end of the first half. That’s why he thinks Deng is still a potential All-Star, and Kirk Hinrich is still good.

Deng….shot 30.8% from the field in clutch situations last year (last 5 minutes of regulation and OT with the lead being +/-5 points)….and did not score a single unassisted field goal in clutch situations all season! All-Star, really? He’s more like a current version of Bill Cartwright…get 80% of your scoring done in the first half when the teams are settling in, and then disappear.

Hinrich….shot 30% in clutch situations last year, at least that’s up from 14% the season before. I think the layup against the Celtics pretty much sums up his play in crucial situations.

Jerry let Ben go so these guys could get more court time? The Bulls are screwed. Thanks for the 45 minutes, Jerry. Now you can go back to counting your money.

by MMP on Jul 21, 2009 9:09 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Jerry's insanity goes beyond Hinrich and Deng

neither of those guys are the root of this team’s problems. They were injured and essentially replaced this year by Rose and Salmons, and this team still wasn’t better than the bottom half of the eastern conference.

by darksmokepuncher on Jul 21, 2009 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What did BG shoot?

Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.

by stupidgenius on Jul 21, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

BG...

shot 46% in clutch situations. He also scored 36.3 points per 48 minutes of clutch time (15th in the league). Luol scored 9.1 and Kirk scored 7.2.

by MMP on Jul 21, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In the PLAYOFFS!!

Not at the end of games that were already decided!!

always a great contribution.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 8:33 AM PST

by hhirb on Jul 21, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stats don't tell the story

Ben was the only guy on the team who could create a good shot for himself in a clutch situation.

by nateroth on Jul 21, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yep....

next year there are going to be a lot of heartbreaking losses without offense at the end of games. Rose is solid in those situations, and actually Salmons shot 50% in the clutch last year (with 34 points per 48 min of clutch time)…..but really, that’s it. Rose and Salmons were also aided by Gordon’s presence on the court. I don’t think anyone envisions them sealing games on their own on a consistent basis. Rose probably more so in the future, but it’s probably too early to expect him to do it on a nightly basis.

by MMP on Jul 21, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There won't be a lot of close games.

We will be down 10-15 and have no way to get back into it in the last few minutes for even the opportunity of having final shots that matter. Wee! Oh wait, Pargo will shoot us back into the game. Right.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Jul 21, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gordon also did a great job guarding Ray Allen in that series….

by RyPac13 on Jul 21, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Good team defense?

So are you saying that the Bulls had a nice defensive game plan for stopping Allen, and that our well thought-out defensive schemes were properly executed by everyone on the floor except for Ben Gordon?

Or are you just trotting out the same old garbage about “scores 15, but allows 20”?

by nateroth on Jul 21, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ray had looks though

he just wasn’t making shots. He was even missing dunks. He was most effective down the stretch with men in his face.

Where Ben was great was keeping Allen in front of him. Allen created very little for himself.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Jul 21, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh c’mon, of course Ray Allen will be known for those back to back turn around 3s (one was on the line) with a man in his face, but how many times did we see Ray Allen come off a screen wide open and drain a 3?

He didn’t score 150 pts or whatever in that series with Gordon locking him down. It wasn’t just turnaround jumpers.

If anybody wants to claim BG played Allen well in that series then we have a problem here.

I liked BG, I enjoyed him playing here, but I had no problem letting him go for over 8 mil a year, maybe 9 mil if we had no backup plan for a SG.

by RyPac13 on Jul 21, 2009 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

BG played Allen well in that series.

Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.

by stupidgenius on Jul 21, 2009 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How about Allen

coming off of numerous illegal screens all series to hit his shots? Was anyone having success getting through illegal screens? How about our fantastic switching where we’d always seem to end up at the disadvantage with the mismatch? Heck, with our coaching staff Pierce hit the same shot over and over again over Salmons hand. We were not making adjustments that whole series, we were not playing team defense, and individually I don’t remember anyone being fantastic defensively for the Bulls. BG did as well as anyone on Allen and at least BG brought it offensively and made them work hard on the other end to defend him.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Jul 21, 2009 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pierce was guarded fairly well in that series. Look at how well (or poor) Pierce shot in that series. It’s not like Pierce was facilitating either, 2 assists per game.

Not saying that’s the whole story, but from my eyes Salmons played much better D in that series than Gordon.

Illegal screens happen to everybody, maybe more so with Allen bc that’s how Boston uses him, but it works both ways.

Was I blind though? Can some of the others jump in here, did anybody really thing BG played good D vs Allen? Does anybody think he’s played good D his whole time with our club?

Again, I like Gordon. His offense has been nice and underrated over the years by outsiders as well as our own fans, but 11 × 5 = no way.

I hope we make a move soon so everybody can get over the Gordon thing, it’s one thing to say he was treated poorly by management (like many other players have been) but it’s another to say we should’ve taken him at what Detroit offered (or more money since he’d probably rather go there than play with Chicago again).

by RyPac13 on Jul 22, 2009 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

When they trade off Kirk and Deng it will take the sting away.

As long as they are cleaning out the fridge they have to go too. Until then I am just watching for Rose and Noah. This team is going nowhere and have gone to great lengths to make being a fan equivalent to self harm.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Jul 22, 2009 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I still have some patience for Deng

(if he plays well to start the season), but “Kurt” is overpaid for his role and is mainly still on the team due to JR’s and drone fan (thanks Fred) favoritism.

"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer

by Granny Waiters on Jul 22, 2009 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well now we have derrick rose to do that dont we ?

by bears rock on Jul 22, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why the hell don't they just fire Vinny now?

The owner obviously has no confidence in him. Vinny’s got to be on the hottest seat of any coach in the NBA. He’s so low-paid that the owner wouldn’t even have to eat much money if he’s fired. Why wait until a month or two into the season to fire him, when they can bring in a new coach now and let him get a full training camp under his belt with the team? Unless you’re looking forward to “interim coach Pete Myers.”

Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0

because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger

by Big D on Jul 21, 2009 9:55 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

because gar-pax make the decisions remember? not jerry

by DidItForTheGlory on Jul 21, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because they can use firing him as another excuse

to keep the fans hopeful for the next future—the one after the 2010 free-agency period in which they’ll bomb out.

always a great contribution.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 8:33 AM PST

by hhirb on Jul 21, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"He’s so low-paid that the owner wouldn’t even have to eat much money if he’s fired."

yeah, but I don’t doubt there’s some principle involved in not wanting to pay two coaches not to coach. They’re still paying Skiles if you look at it a certain way.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 21, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But they've already done it several times before, with Skiles and Cartwright

Maybe they’re waiting until Christmas Eve to fire Vinny.

Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0

because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger

by Big D on Jul 21, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and to your point

if they do fire VDN and replace him with Myers, it’ll be a [name redacted]-esque disaster.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 21, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm going to get banned for pessimism, but I think a "disastrous" season in terms of W-L would not be bad

A high draft pick would be worth it. It would be bad for Rose’s development and it’s ridiculous to punt on any season. But, given the current management fiasco, I just don’t see how the Bulls get another decent player beside Rose except through the draft. The beauty of the draft is that:

1) the player is cheap
2) the Bulls are essentially forced to acquire a player, even if that player isn’t perfect

If VDN is canned before the end of the season and Pete takes them to depths on NBA futility, at least it will mean VDN doesn’t get an extension and they get an asset.

by hitlesswonder on Jul 21, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

You've just nailed the organization's game plan.

Only don’t think of it as pessimism. Think of it as building for the future! With a little luck we’re right back in it baby!

by nateroth on Jul 21, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A "dorf" gets the opportunity to say "I told you so" to boaster his ego

"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"

by exult463 on Jul 21, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

u don't get banned for pessimism from what i can tell

you get an atta boy

it is so frustrating that the best place to chat about the bulls is dominated by a whiny drama queen moderator with a man crush on an average SG......6 recs

by BigforkBullsFan on Jul 21, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

nobody gets banned for their opinion, just how they express it

unless it’s a bad opinion of me personally!

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 21, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

they could always sell the pick...

48 minutes of intensity...RIP NVL.

by Lt.Dan on Jul 21, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You may be on to something

with the draft being the best route for a team this cap-crunched.

However even in my greatest nightmares, ‘disastrous’ is around 32 wins and no top pick. I don’t think they could possibly be so bad as to get a pick that changes the franchise. Plus being that terrible doesn’t really fit the business model.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 21, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's hard to make the case that we'll be .500 again next year

and with the last 10 years’ experience at drafting players, that’s not the way out either. They were close with BG if they could have gotten a Boozer type but alas, we’re hopeless!

always a great contribution.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 8:33 AM PST

by hhirb on Jul 21, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They'll get 42-45 wins last year.

I thought they were > .500 last year, despite Del Negro, and they finished at .500, missing large chunks of Kirk Hinrich and Luol Deng, two of the team’s best players. I think those guys missing time (and Deng’s early-season shittiness) took more wins away than trading for Salmons and Miller added. I think they’ll finish above .500. I think Gordon would have had them between 46-49 wins.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jul 21, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Agreed

I think we SHOULD win 45 games next year….with BG we should have won 48 and really been building something internally….we’d be more dangerous with Gordon, though that wouldn’t necessarily show up in the regular season win column….as much as it would in the post season

Though I hate thinking should and paper with these Bulls.

Thurston Moore is a rock god

by majoyenrac on Jul 21, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think we need a lot of missed games to be really poor

A healthy roster will be able to compete in the East. It’s on Salmons and Deng to show they can play and compete for shots absent Ben Gordon.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Jul 21, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don’t like the “tank 2009-2010” plan. It may be worth a full fanpost, but I’ll try to keep it short:

- We can get into the playoffs as a 4-7 seed right now with one or two small moves and a healthy team. We could legitimately contend with one bigger move (like a Boozer move for example) or without a healthy team and with the big move we could still be playoff bound.

- Even if we tank the season, we won’t be a bottom 5 team. We’ll likely be like a 6-12 pick and if next year’s draft is anything like this year’s, I don’t really value that pick all that much. Say we got a Rubio, so what? We have Rose. Say we get a decent big man (somebody worse than Thabeet at like a 7 pick), so then do we just put him in there behind Noah? We’re tanking the season for a backup Center?

- We won’t get anybody that can contribute like Salmons or Deng can when healthy, and a “plan” revolving around a late lottery pick for 2011 and beyond is absolutely terrible. Rose will be nearing the end of his deal, he won’t be happy, his progression will be hurt from playing on a losing team for 1-2 years.

Furthermore, the more wins we get, the harder it is for JR and management to keep rejecting the idea of bringing in a top player to put us over the edge. If we win 30 games next season, we will be much more likely to hear the “we’re not giving up our prospects for one guy if he can’t put us over the edge.” If we make the playoffs again and get ousted in the 1st round, fans are going to be demanding an improvement, especially if Rose keeps looking special. Just my opinion, but I really think that anything less than a playoff birth is a huge disappointment for us, draft picks and all.

by RyPac13 on Jul 21, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Yes!

What I really don’t get is how winning 45 games with guys we’ll have to lose to get cap space (Miller, Salmons, Tyrus) constitutes “momentum” or steps in any sort of plan.

Winning 45 games with younger guys we’re actually gonna keep playing almost all the key minutes, and then being able to add to it, that constitutes improvement.

Winning 45 games and then either missing out on cap space and being stuck at mediocre and aging doesn’t cut it.
Nor does winning 45 games but then having to use that cap space to replace two starters and your frontcourt depth.

by Sports2 on Jul 21, 2009 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well Tyrus and James’ contract in some form for Boozer is an upgrade and gives us 12 mil in space or a better player for year’s to come.

We may lose some quality contributions from Miller, but with 11 million we can easily buy a center of his caliber and have some money left over. Hell, we could resign Miller for probably half of what he makes now next year.

Salmons is a tougher one since he’s a good value at under 6 million a year. I don’t know how we replace him without Deng coming back strong and signing a good shooting guard. In that scenario Salmons is kind of like Hinrich is for us now, not worth keeping on for his market value. Without Rose I wouldn’t even think about letting Hinrich go, and without Deng or a SG I would want Salmons on our roster.

by RyPac13 on Jul 21, 2009 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So...in some retarded way, did the awful Nocioni signing cost the team Gausol

in some weird round about fashion?

The team went from having a lot of young promising guys that any team would love to have or trade for to bad contract after bad contract and cap concerns in a short period of time.

Still wondering why the team didn’t dump Hinrich last year. Maybe there were really no takers and the Minnesota or Portland rumors were just that…planted rumors?

The only thing I can say in Jerry’s defense is that he might have thought last year that he had a 50-50 chance of signing Gordon to a long-term deal for maybe $7M a year. But fantastic playoff series enticed Detroit enough to pay him.

by KentuckyBullsFan on Jul 21, 2009 1:22 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Skiles grew frustrated because of this "dorf" meddling?

probably months or years before his player relationship melt-down and eventually bailing out?

I wouldn’t be surprise?

"I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it."
"Go ahead, make my day"
"We boil at different degrees"
"A good man always knows his limitations"
"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?"

by exult463 on Jul 21, 2009 1:57 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

This proves that Reinsdorf SUCKS at anything basketball related

I’ve never seen an owner talk this bad about a player HIS organization drafted. If u draft B.G. at number 3 because he is a scorer why did they always seem to complain about him shooting as much as he did? Why not pay him to do what he does best…score. Why let him walk for nothing? B.G. has always been a scorer and always will be, why wouldnt he get the most minutes at the position that is supose to shoot the ball, SHOOTING GUARD, not defending guard. This is puzzleing to me and makes me think twice about their intentions to really win a championship. He said it himself He “lucked up on Michael Jordan”

by mustanging5 on Jul 21, 2009 3:13 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Derrick is no better than a 3rd guard

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 21, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Bite your tongue.

" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem

is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger

by Dionysus2.0 on Jul 21, 2009 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, he can't play defense and that is 99% of the game apparently...

He is in the very least behind Kirk and Salmons. Lets see how Pargo plays in the preseason. There might be a heated battle between the two on defensive supremacy.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Jul 21, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Point guards are supposed to be small!

Derrick Rose’s height and athleticism give him an inherent disadvantage at the PG position. He’s a tweener

Vinny Del Negro Offensive Gameplan, Part 1
-When there's less than 30 seconds left in the game, that's me with my hands cupped around my mouth yelling.
"BEN! SHOOT! SHOOOOTTTT!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO ME?!?"
-This segues nicely into my Timeout Management classes - order now!

by Prevenge on Jul 21, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well....

The Bulls have now cleared the way for a shooting guard that can’t shoot to go along with their collection of skinny power forwards with no power and centers that play around the perimeter.

Don’t let the position descriptions get in the way when making the roster!

by MMP on Jul 21, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

awesome

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jul 21, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kirk Hinrich

Vinny Del Negro Offensive Gameplan, Part 1
-When there's less than 30 seconds left in the game, that's me with my hands cupped around my mouth yelling.
"BEN! SHOOT! SHOOOOTTTT!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO ME?!?"
-This segues nicely into my Timeout Management classes - order now!

by Prevenge on Jul 21, 2009 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So

a .551 True shooting percent, and .408 3pt % = not able to shoot?

Maybe the “not able to shoot” line is somewhere between Hinrich’s numbers and Gordon’s .573 and .410

Somebody should really tell Joe Johnson, who had .534 and .360 last year.

by runningman on Jul 22, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hinrich misses open jumpers and can't make a layup.

That is probably what has stuck in everyone’s craw. He doesn’t take a ton of shots, but the ones he misses are mind boggling usually. He isn’t called Captain Clunk for nothing. He misses the give-me shots.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Jul 22, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's terrible

At shooting layups, but overall he’s a good shooter.

I’ve never understood why the gimme layups never go down….it was those missed gimme layups that he missed as a rook and 2nd year player that made folks think he really could be something down the road because he certainly can’t keep missing the layups, yet 6 years in, there they go, clunk….

Thurston Moore is a rock god

by majoyenrac on Jul 22, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's the same phenomena that leads people to repeat over and over

about Ben dribbling the ball off of his foot – it stands out when it happens, but it didn’t happen anywhere nearly as often as people act like it did. Mistakes just stand out, and once people start talking about them as a tendency then every instance reinforces the stereotype.

If you check the shooting stats on 82games.com, it shows that Ben shot .534 “inside” and .517 “jump shot” eFG%. And Kirk? .532 “inside” and .517 “jump shot” eFG%. If you take out dunks and tips, Ben’s “close” eFG% was actually worse than Kirk’s. (In comparison, Derrick’s “inside” eFG% blows both of them away at .577.)

That is not at all an argument that Kirk is a better shooter than Ben – volume counts, clutch counts, free throw rate counts. But, Kirk is clearly hitting a reasonable amount of those inside shots overall, or it would show up in his shooting percentage.

In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!

by wjb1492 on Jul 22, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's not really a great comparison.

Gordon draws more fouls than Hinrich when he goes in for a layup and it doesn’t go in. The FG% isn’t the whole picture. Missing because of excessive contact and getting a foul call is a little different from missing uncontested layups and/or not getting to the line. Gordon was great at drawing contact last year and getting to the line. I don’t think those percentages are comparable then. Especially considering volume.

If Hinrich shot as much as Gordon would as many go in? Probably not. He shoots such a select few in comparison and the shots he does shoot seem to be ones he decides to take when the situation seems ideal for him such as open jumpers, open layups, jumpers before the defense get down the floor…. If he had to shoot out of his comfort zone (more contested shots, taking more contact, creating shots, trying to get to the line etc) I don’t see how he would keep pace with the better guards of the league. Rose showed up on day one looked better at shooting and layups than Kirk and everyone said he was struggling for some reason.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Jul 22, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

not to take anything away from gordon

but missed shots where he draws a foul don’t count against FG%.

"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"

by Jaina on Jul 22, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Take the knees out of my argument why don't you! :)

Hopefully this next season Hinrich will show everyone what a good shooter he is so this doesn’t have to come up again.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Jul 22, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Derrick looked better on driving and layups because he is better

He didn’t look better on jump shots, imo, and the stats certainly bear that out.

And I stuck a whole paragraph in there about how this absolutely is not a Ben vs. Kirk thing, or an attempt to say Kirk is “as good as” Ben in a game sense. Kirk’s offense does not replace Ben’s offense, and I acknowledged that:

volume counts, clutch counts, free throw rate counts

The point is that Kirk hit both inside shots and jumpers at the basically the same percentage as Ben, so this flat-out “Kirk can’t shoot” stuff is garbage.

He’s not a volume scorer like Ben was, and he’s not an instant offense guy like Ben was, and he’s not better in the clutch than earlier in games like Ben was – both stats and just watching games testify to that – so there is plenty of stuff to accurately distinguish the two if that’s the purpose. Although, considering one guy is still on the team and one now plays for a division rival, it would be really nice if people would finally get off the Kirk vs. Ben thing.

But my point was that Kirk can, in fact, shoot – people making up funny nicknames or repeatedly saying he can’t doesn’t make it reality.

In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!

by wjb1492 on Jul 22, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So...

Are you saying that Ben’s better than Kirk, or that Kirk’s better than Ben?

just kidding…

Thurston Moore is a rock god

by majoyenrac on Jul 22, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

haha

Mostly I’ve been trying to ignore these threads – but every once in a while I feel the need to defend Kirk against some of the crap. I don’t care if Ben’s biggest fans want to shout about all the ways they think Ben is a better player than Kirk. I get that many people are still quite bitter over the whole thing.

But it would be nice if people could at least try to be accurate in their many, many, many criticisms of the guy who’s still on the team.

In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!

by wjb1492 on Jul 22, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

His face pisses me off.

try and come up with a counterargument to that!

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 22, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm just honored that the ringleader acknowledged my existence. ;)

I actually have no issue with anyone who wants to admit that they absolutely cannot stand Kirk for (a) non basketball reasons, or (b) as a by-product of Ben leaving, every time they see/hear/read about him they are reminded that Ben is no longer on the team, or © they just don’t like his game. You can have a full-blown temper tantrum if you’d like, and if you stick to the facts chances are very good I won’t reply.

I make no promises where people resort to stereotypes and cliches.

In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!

by wjb1492 on Jul 22, 2009 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

YFBB is the ringleader of the Cry Babies!

Why does he even claim fo be a Bulls fan? I wish he could move on, try a more positive outlook. Ten times out of nine his posts sound like some immature spoiled brat “His face Pisses me off”. I wish he would just get a job and buy his own team, & then they could win the NBA title every year!

by Jesus Presley on Jul 22, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

GarPax, is that you?

"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer

by Granny Waiters on Jul 22, 2009 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

quiet at the adult table.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 22, 2009 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Idiotic troll

Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.

by stupidgenius on Jul 22, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ten times out of nine?

WHOOOOAAA!!!!
That’s craaaaaazy!!!!

Vinny Del Negro Offensive Gameplan, Part 1
-When there's less than 30 seconds left in the game, that's me with my hands cupped around my mouth yelling.
"BEN! SHOOT! SHOOOOTTTT!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO ME?!?"
-This segues nicely into my Timeout Management classes - order now!

by Prevenge on Jul 22, 2009 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

I was thinking the same thing.

by bigballa10 on Jul 23, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

All the more reason to compare the two during the upcoming season.

Although, considering one guy is still on the team and one now plays for a division rival, it would be really nice if people would finally get off the Kirk vs. Ben thing.

(Yes, I am still angry enough to keep my signature line.)

"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer

by Granny Waiters on Jul 22, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am just tired of hearing

how the old core must leave the team for Rose and the team to succeed and yet Kirk and Deng are still here. What am I supposed to think? I’m about ready for them to all leave. Last season it was “who will fit with Rose” and then BG did fit. And I felt pretty good about that. And then it suddenly changed to “well we need to get rid of the old core” which apparently ONLY meant BG. All I see with Kirk and Deng are redundancy, a giant contract, and missed trade opportunities. And every time I look at them that is what I’m going to be thinking about. It’s like Wallace’s last few months with the Bulls. It was hard to even watch him play knowing how much his existence was screwing everything up. Every time they did the Big Ben sound effect it was ironic.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Jul 22, 2009 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Chairman

says defense wins. He mentions shooting(thanks beat writers) exactly zero times in the QA.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Jul 21, 2009 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh they care

they just care about the wrong things

by sin on Jul 21, 2009 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And since we're bashing the FO

Dejuan Fucking Blair averaged 16.3 points and 8.7 rebounds in 25 minutes in the summer league. Bite me.

Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.

by stupidgenius on Jul 21, 2009 8:33 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Key Phrase "Summer League"

D. Blair will never make it in the NBA! In three years he will be overseas, with his no ACL knees & his 6’6" fat turd body.

by Jesus Presley on Jul 22, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Meanwhile Taj will be on the bench for a year and then off the team.

I’d rather have three good years with Blair (with the possibility of nothing happening to his knee) than a sure thing loser in a typical 26th pick like Taj. The Spurs were smart and have historically been smart with their later picks. I think I trust them more than us on this one.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Jul 22, 2009 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow! You have ESPN?

Taj will be a MUCH better player than D. Blair. He will be a great bench player for the bulls this year, he can play two positions C/PF. He is also a good Defender & shot blocker with a 7’4" wingspan. How can Blair have three good years if he is never sees th floor? McDyess, Duncan, Gooden, Bonner & they will get Fabirico Oberto back. Taj is far from a “sure thing loser pick” there is a reason that every team in the NBA passed on the TURD known as D. Blair. I would much rather have a player who can play multiple positions than a player who will not plat at all.

by Jesus Presley on Jul 22, 2009 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also Taj was a first Rd pick who is guaranteed a 3 year contract. He WILL be on the team.

D. “TURD” Blair does not have a contract at all & may not even make the Spurs? So he could be overseas very soon unlike Taj Gibson! Don’t get mad Sugar, sweetie pie, no need to hate Chicago. You can forget about the Bulls when you go to Lillith Fair with your people.

by Jesus Presley on Jul 22, 2009 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd love it if you said Turd more. It makes you sound smarter.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Jul 22, 2009 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well after that

he won’t be saying anything anymore. Lest you think I’m being chivalrous, I was simply waiting for an excuse. :-p

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 22, 2009 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What are you talking about?

DeJuan Blair signed a 3 year $2.7 million contract already.

by bigballa10 on Jul 23, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

cranscape said it best

i’ll take the spurs draft record any over ours. parker, ginobli? those weren’t high picks that everyone passed on as well. they know what they are doing. hell, roger mason jr. played for us and did nothing, went to the spurs and hit some game winners. the spurs know what they are doing.

by The90sBullsRevival on Jul 22, 2009 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

...at center for your Iowa Energy, Taj Gibson!

Meanwhile Taj will be on the bench for a year and then off the team.

"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer

by Granny Waiters on Jul 22, 2009 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wasn't the comment on the Bulls coaching staffing being poorly structured last year

really a slam on Del Harris?

"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer

by Granny Waiters on Jul 21, 2009 9:10 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It might've been a slam on Garpax

Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.

by stupidgenius on Jul 21, 2009 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Same thing really, if Harris was a Paxson hire and not a VDN choice.

"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer

by Granny Waiters on Jul 21, 2009 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's true

VDN wanted Bob Hill though, which…yuck.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 22, 2009 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's how I saw it

both last year’s comments and the moves made this year indicate that Reinsdorf basically feels Del Harris retired a year early.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 22, 2009 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, he was "retired" while he was giving advice

His advice was great! Well, his golf advice. And his hair pointers.

Vinny Del Negro Offensive Gameplan, Part 1
-When there's less than 30 seconds left in the game, that's me with my hands cupped around my mouth yelling.
"BEN! SHOOT! SHOOOOTTTT!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO ME?!?"
-This segues nicely into my Timeout Management classes - order now!

by Prevenge on Jul 22, 2009 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

of course

cause the one guy we shouldn’t have on our bench is the guy who has won coach of the year honors.

by The90sBullsRevival on Jul 22, 2009 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kirk can shoot a little. Not consistently and he can’t shoot anything contested. Can nail the open 3 and some pull up Js but overall he’s not that great of a shooter. Decent but I go off watching the games not all these stupid Hollinger stats.

Lies, lies and damned statistics…

by C Smoove on Jul 22, 2009 2:02 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Shooting stats are pretty straight-forward.

You say Kirk can’t hit anything contested. Other people have said he can’t hit the open shot. Yet the stats say that he hit his shots at roughly the same rate as Ben this season, and pretty much everyone agrees he’s a good shooter. Ben pulls ahead on dunks, and his TS% is better with better FT shooting – which I think most people would agree was ridiculously subpar for Kirk this year.

So there’s something wrong there, because in spite of all the people saying Kirk can’t shoot – he’s hitting shots. And he’s hitting shots at a much higher percentage than a guy who just randomly makes a shot here and there. And that means people are fixating more on his misses than considering the overall picture. This actually does make sense, because the Bulls have had Ben here for the past 5 years, a pretty great shooter – so people start comparing Ben’s shooting to Kirk’s shooting, instead of comparing them to an overall NBA standard. The nicknames reinforce the perception.

There were so many game threads last year where people would be griping forever about Kirk’s shooting, yet he’d be over .400 for the game. I specifically remember at least one gamethread where Kirk missed a shot after hitting his first several and there was a comment asking whether Kirk was ever going to make anything. So we’ve gone from “Hey, Kirk’s a pretty good player, but there’s just no role for him here on that contract” to “Kirk can’t shoot, his defense is overrated, he pretty much all-around sucks, and Pargo’s just as good.”

In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!

by wjb1492 on Jul 22, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Chicago fans are pretty fickle aren't they

It’s annoying. Kirk’s definitely not a bad player at all, he’s actually quite good and I think had we not lucked out and gotten Derrick, we would be happy with Kirk as our PG….

But yeah Kirk’s no Ben on offense, and Ben’s so stellar offensively that he’s probably a shade better than Kirk int he overall. But Kirk Hinrich’s no slouch either. He just doesn’t ideally fit our SG hole and is expensive as a backup PG because he should be a starter.

Oh well, all this hopefully will change when Kirk fits the bill next year and it’ll move back to the “I hate Tyrus”ers to take that mantle away from the “Ben v Kirk”.

Thurston Moore is a rock god

by majoyenrac on Jul 22, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're right on there

Kirk’s stats are much better than I thought they were last year. When I said he couldn’t shoot (way up on this thread) I was referring more to the 41.5% career shooting percentage….but he did significantly better than that this year. Hopefully, he’s able to keep the percentages up when the Bulls need him to increase his scoring volume next season.

The pressure also comes with getting paid. At the time he signed his extension, I thought the Bulls were getting Hinrich at a hometown discount. However, when you get $47 million and your PER drops from 17.something to 13.something after signing a contract at an age in which you are supposed to be entering your prime, it pisses a lot of people off. If the Bulls locked in with Ben Gordon for 5 years/$58M, and his PER promptly dropped 3 points, he would get the same treatment.

That, and the owner saying we had a choice of one or the other with Hinrich and Gordon doesn’t help fans’ love for Hinrich. During the Celtic series, for the first time since ‘98 I heard people that previously had very little interest in the NBA talking about the Bulls mornings after the game. Unfortunately, we now have to take a step backwards. Reminds me of how we had to trade Curry when expectations were high after the big ’04-’05 season. Oh well, I guess that turned out ok in the long run.

by MMP on Jul 22, 2009 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, I really do get where a lot of it's coming from.

Were the choice mine, I would have traded Kirk and resigned Ben, too. I’d still like Kirk moved someplace he can start, and believe the team would be better overall with a different distribution of talent.

But I’m also still a Kirk fan, and it’s quite frustrating over the past year or so as he’s returned to playing quite well and people are still fixated in 07-08. I mean, he is what he is, and that’s not a perfect player – but right now around here a lot of people aren’t even acknowledging what he does do well. And it’s not Kirk’s fault the FO decided to keep him and let Ben walk, but he’s taking the brunt of it (among guys on the team – the FO is getting their share, obviously, but they were the ones with options. Kirk just gets to play when and where they tell him.

Some people I think know they are “exaggerating” about Kirk and it’s just a means of venting – but I can’t always tell that from a post. Some people when they actually look at the stats realize that he wasn’t nearly as bad as the public sentiment here would seem to say. I really have tried to stay out of it for the most part, and have tried to stick to just correcting statements that I feel are flat out wrong. Maybe that’s just making things worse overall, but as a Kirk fan it’s tough to wade through post after post about how much he sucks. I wish I had the willpower to just avoid BaB for a while, but it seems to be a habit I can’t break.

In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!

by wjb1492 on Jul 22, 2009 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

bounce-back, or dead-cat bounce?

“he did significantly better than that this year. Hopefully, he’s able to keep the percentages up when the Bulls need him to increase his scoring volume next season.”

Consider me worried.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 23, 2009 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kirk can shoot. But not well enough to justify him being a starting SG. Shooting guard. He can hit the open three but do you honestly think Kirk shoots well enough consistently be play extended minutes at the 2. I don’t.

I like Kirk. If his contract was for like 6 million, I would love Kirk. He’s a smart player who does a lot of little things well, will body anybody up on D, doesn’t make many mistakes. There are good qualities to his game. I just don’t like his contract and I wouldn’t like him as a SG on a regular basis.

by C Smoove on Jul 27, 2009 9:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

If we didn't have Rose

I’d like Kirk a lot more today, as for a starting PG his salary ain’t bad for his production especially in the 2 yrs after this one….

But with Rose he’s a luxury on a team with a considerable need at inside scoring….

Thurston Moore is a rock god

by majoyenrac on Jul 30, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Chicago Bulls.
Start posting about the Bulls »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Jayhawk_small
Game Preview # 12 - Bulls @ Nuggets
Blackstar_small
Plan B: if the Bulls fail to sign a FA superstar at the 2 or the 4 spots...
Small
How About A Whole New Plan?
Small
Game Preview #10: Chicago Bulls vs. Los Angeles Lakers
Small
Rose Problem: Trying too hard to please Vinny and "teammates"
Small
Your thought on a GS-Chi Ellis A-R for Kirk TT trade dreams
Jjohnson
What's going on in Derrick Rose's head?
Drose2_small
what i'd do as GM right now...
Small
The concern about Rose...
Old_logo_gif_small
Game Preview #10: Bulls at Sacramento Kings

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SPONSORS


Guy who does everything

Blogabull_s_small your friendly BullsBlogger