When I spoke to Ben Gordon late Wednesday, after he agreed to a free-agent deal with Detroit, one comment he made was that he felt Bulls fans had been "cheated."
He didn’t elaborate, but I think he was referring to how the Bulls have given away some quality players in recent years to keep the payroll modest.
Mike McGraw. Mostly just putting a new thread up, but this is interesting. So was another Gordon quote saying "I'm going to a situation now where winning is the No. 1 priority."
4 months ago
your friendly BullsBlogger
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Bout time a player spoke out.
I expect Tyrus to do the same in about a year or so.
by Edicus2288i on Jul 2, 2009 11:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This makes me feel better about our precious 2010 cap space...
wait, no it doesn’t.
BG and his damn non son-like qualities!!!!!
by M 80 on Jul 2, 2009 11:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow he really cares about us
Or does he fell cheated?
Don’t put us in the middle of this; just move on.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Jul 2, 2009 11:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Regardless if he cares about us or not
It’s good to see someone call Reinsdorf out. And he’s right we’ve let players who have/had value just leave for garbage just to keep payroll down. Tyson, JR Smith, PJ Brown, Joe Smith are just a few. All those guys we traded away for nothing, or let them walk for nothing.
by Edicus2288i on Jul 2, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We already know this.
What does him saying it accomplish at this point?
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Jul 2, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a long-standing Bulls tradition to bad-mouth the front office once leaving
Started by the lovely Horace Grant.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 2, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly I'm surprised he didn't say more.
The org certainly deserves it.
by potato0328 on Jul 2, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even with my constant berating...
…the Blogabull community is a lot smarter and engaged than most fans. He’s telling them what’s up. If they notice, then you might have something.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jul 2, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You must be delirious...
We let Tyson go when we acquired Ben Wallace and there really wasn’t any room for him and his huge contract once we finally had someone who knew how to set a pick. PJ Brown was pretty much retired and wanted a ring, JR Smith was just a bad idea who wouldnt mesh with Skiles, and Joe Smith was traded when that season went to hell. None of those players were cogs.
Its nice to see BG tear down management now that he has a new contract but Im damn sure he wasn’t saying that when the team shitted away the 07 08 season. BG, I love you to death (just ask Joe Biden) but youre way off base here and the team will be better off without you in the long run.
by Playboy_Bull on Jul 2, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who have the Bulls given away since Gordon arrived
to keep the payroll modest? JR Smith and Tim Thomas were tossed because Skiles hated them, and Chicago fans didn’t care about them anyway. Tyson was dealt to make room for Wallace’s enormous contract, that’s hardly a case of Jerry being cheap. Is he talking about letting Duhon and Pargo walk?
I get it, we let a 20ppg player walk, but this “The Bulls Organization Sucks” backlash is baseless. Reinsdorf hasn’t gone over the tax, fine, but we also haven’t had a competitive enough team to merit going over the tax. All along though, he’s shown a commitment to signing his best young players longterm (Tyson, Kirk, Nocioni, Deng), and he made the huge free agent move when the Bulls were in position to contend (Ben Wallace).
Reinsdorf may be a horrible negotiator, but he isn’t cheap. Gordon just isn’t worth the money he got.
by YaoPau on Jul 2, 2009 11:58 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
I wrote the same above lol
you beat me to it. I totally agree.
by Playboy_Bull on Jul 2, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wrote the same above lol
you beat me to it. I totally agree.
by Playboy_Bull on Jul 2, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah but in fairness to Ben
With him leading the way, he thinks we would have had a competitive team
by Option27 on Jul 2, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair how?
We lost to an aging Celtics team that played Brian Scalabrine in crunch time. No matter how hurt Ben was about this situation, he couldn’t have thought we were a championship contender anytime soon…
by YaoPau on Jul 2, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hypothetically...
say we had kept Ben and traded Deng, Tyrus, and whatever else necessary (maybe Johnson or expirings) for Amare or Bosh. I know there’s no guarantee that that would have happened, but doesn’t that make us a contender?
by potato0328 on Jul 2, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To many "what if's"
we are what we are.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Jul 2, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So the plan now is to sign Wade and/or Bosh in 2010?
How is that any better?
by potato0328 on Jul 2, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
money and a bad image...
just like in the past. History repeats?
by kingj41 on Jul 2, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's with the "bad image"?
Because the Bulls thought it would be better suited to spend their money elsewhere means they have a bad image? Bleh.
Not too long ago, Detroit traded their best player (Billups) for a disgruntled all star (Iverson). It wasn’t the most popular choice. I mean they pretty much gave away their catalyst from all their glory years for nothing.
I don’t think that affected Gordons’ decision much, did it?
by Option27 on Jul 2, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because they have an actual plan.
Not saying it’s the best by signing CV, BG, but they have options and players with value to move and the balls to do it. They even fired their rookie coach to show that they need to upgrade there to win also.
The Bulls seem happy with making money, not having a plan, and not having a coach.
Which situation seems better to you?
by kingj41 on Jul 2, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They have a plan
It just doesn’t involve over paying a 6’3 one dimensional player.
Detroit don’t look like they got anything planned really. Trading star players, firing coaches, over paying in free agency, etc.
The Bulls seem to have more planned if you ask me
by Option27 on Jul 2, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
stop using the 'one-dimensional' label
If anything, he excels so much as his one dimension that it mostly negates some of the other weak areas.
The SG position is the position which you expect more points out of. So why knock Ben because he gives up points to the one position you expect to score?
The Bulls offense is going to struggle and their defense is going to struggle more. A lot more of those jump-shots by other players are going to result in misses and fast breaks the other way…
by kingj41 on Jul 2, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you need 4, or if you're lucky . . . 5 players who can score on the court at all times
I’ll gladly take the 4 if the other player is Noah.
With that being said, if his 20 ppg are being replaced by Bosh’s 20 ppg, at least you will have 10 boards to go along with it.
by Option27 on Jul 2, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Merely Speculation
Who said Bosh would want to come to the Bulls??
by 420man! on Jul 2, 2009 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
Tanked 2008 season leads to lucky #1 pick, coaching search is a complete disaster, and Bulls barely make playoffs after dumping salaries.
That’s about the same in terms of “planning” as trading Billups for a giant expiring contract, making the playoffs, and using cap space for free agents, and will hire another coach.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 2, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can't say their plan has failed until 2010 passes and nothing is to show
by Option27 on Jul 2, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can't say they have a plan until they actually sign a FA
So, we’re about even here.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 2, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so the Bulls plan is...
to say, “Hey, Bosh, Wade, etc. could you take less than the max so we don’t go over the tax and still compete for a title? We know you have a family to take care of, but you can make that up outside of basketball by playing in Chicago.”
“OK, no. Well, we’ll go find Eddie Robinson V2.0, or Ron Mercer V2.0. Thanks for your time.”
by kingj41 on Jul 2, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't matter what the Bulls said. Two players have already said the Bulls should re-sign Gordon.
sounds like at least a small sampling of an “image”
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jul 2, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In a sense, that's fair, but in a sense it's not.
One, I think many of the current players are pretty friendly, so I can see a player on another team not wanting to say the Bulls shouldn’t sign Ben, because that can pretty easily be construed as a criticism.
Two, weren’t both of those interviews from before Ben agreed to the deal with the Pistons? It’s one thing to suggest a team shouldn’t lose one of its top players in general. It’s another thing to suggest a team should go into the LT to offer a player something over a pretty generous offer from another team.
But I do agree that the persistent refusal to go pay the tax makes an impression – even with enough to offer a max deal to a FA next year, they’re going to know how much of the cap that eats up and what that’s going to mean for the level of players around them.
In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!
by wjb1492 on Jul 2, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying it's a definitive declaration of the opinion of the entire league.
It does confirm my pre-conceptions, which of course, is a sucky way to make an argument on my part.
I would say most of the players in the league view Ben Gordon has a great scorer, especially those who have had to guard him multiple times. I would guess most players in the league will come to see this as the Bulls letting Gordon go because they didn’t want to pay the luxury tax.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jul 2, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The latter part, to me, is a real problem
Because pretty much all the talk amongst the biggest FA names is that they want to have a real chance to compete.
Wade, Bosh, Lebron, etc… those guys are getting the max whereever they go. What’s going to make a difference to them is what the team can and will put around them. And this was another example of the Bulls refusing to compete in that respect.
by Sports2 on Jul 2, 2009 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mean how is that less hypothetical?
That plan assumes that one of the top players in the league will want to leave their team and sign with us.
by potato0328 on Jul 2, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha this convo got complicated fast...
Here’s my perspective on it…
Option said: In fairness to Ben, he thinks we would contend with him.
I said: How is that fair? We’re not a contender anytime soon.
You said: We would be if we trade for Bosh/Amare.
But that isn’t an argument, because that’s not “in fairness to Ben”, which is what you were responding to. If Ben said “I know our team isn’t a contender, but in fairness to me, had we gotten Chris Bosh, we would’ve been.” we all would’ve started laughing.
Obviously every team wants a superstar, but not every team can have one. There is no “in fairness to Ben”, he made the “Bulls fans should feel cheated” inference because he was hurt, not because it’s actually true.
by YaoPau on Jul 2, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
I wasn’t considering his earlier comments.
I was arguing that, whether or not we should feel cheated, the team is not necessarily in a better place without Ben. You obviously disagree.
by potato0328 on Jul 2, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The red carpet at O'Hare will be extra plush now
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 2, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe we can hire a brand new Benny
This one DEFINITELY won’t get a DUI (or whatever that was).
by potato0328 on Jul 2, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And they'll all still do sign-and-trades. ~$30 guaranteed is a huge incentive.
And the Bulls just lost a HUGE asset to facilitate that.
Bulls for 5 years, $110 million? Or $6 years, $140 with Cleveland or the Heat?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jul 2, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can I be the first to predict
we get not one out of LeBron, Bosh, Wade, Amare or Nowitzki next summer. Not a one of ’em.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Jul 2, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Johnson works.
But he’ll be on a max contract and over paid by $4-$5 million by the end of his contract. But at least the Bulls didn’t overpay for their guy. That’d be foolish. Overpay for the loyal guy.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jul 2, 2009 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The same Joe Johnson who demanded he be shipped out of Phoenix
So he could make more money and be the dog in Atlanta.
Yep, we’re really moving on from the “selfish” Ben Gordon.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 2, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know if you were being sarcastic.
But I would rather overpay for Johnson than Gordon because Johnson is better, and I think overpaying-as-a-bad thing is overrated.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jul 2, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It depends on how much you're overpaying
I think I’d rather pay a million extra for Gordon than $4M extra for Johnson. Especially on a team that will pinch pennies in other respects.
by Sports2 on Jul 2, 2009 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is my "in general" theory.
I switch from what I think the Bulls would do with their self-imposed restrictions or what I’d do if I were a rich owner of a club without making that clear.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jul 2, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yup
when the top tier doesn’t come, it’s going to be ‘overpay’ for the Joe Johnson tier. Is that overpaying then acceptable? It costs money to pry away free agents.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 2, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look
No one knows the plan. I don’t even think the Bulls know the plan. Everytime we think we know what they will do, they don’t.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Jul 2, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This Chicago fan
Was pretty excited when JR Smith at least came in that PJ BRown-Smith trade for Chandler (cuz Chandler you could see needed a new change of scenery).
Giving him away for nothing was stupid….building his potential up for 5 months playing him and trading him at the deadline perhaps with someone else, not so stupid.
Not using PJ Brown’s expiring money at all that year after PJ publicly said he wanted out was ridiculous.
Trading Chandler was ridiculous too…..even though it could have netted us something.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jul 2, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I'm with you on the JR Smith thing
but I understood it. Do I think we could’ve gotten more for Smith and Chandler? Sure.
But did I feel cheated as a fan – as Gordon was inferring? Hell no. We just landed the top free agent on the market by paying up the ass for him, and the Chicago media was buzzing.
by YaoPau on Jul 2, 2009 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We gave up JR Smith for Wallace
trading him gave us more cap room. Ugly, Ugly move.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Jul 2, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Incorrect
Ben Wallace was signed on July 2nd. Tyson Chandler was traded for PJ Brown and JR Smith on July 16th. Smith was traded to Denver on July 19th.
The Bulls then picked up Adrian Griffin, didn’t use PJ Brown’s expiring contract to acquire Pau Gasol, and traded Ben Wallace a year later.
You can’t make this ineptitude up.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 2, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes but he was traded for Eisley
who didn’t have a guaranteed contract. Making the Bulls save money by cutting him. Even though the trade for Smith happened on the 19th when he was traded to the Bulls it was floating out there that there was a trade already in place to move him again.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Jul 2, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, I didn't know it was for Eisley, I thought they just acquired those 2nd round picks
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 2, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
trading Tyson for expirings was entirely about being cheap
I understood trading him since he was a duplicate to Wallace, but all he got was an aged expiring contract. An expiring contract that Paxson then couldn’t use in a trade because of the luxury tax.
I guess maybe ‘cheap’ is getting lost in translation? Jerry isn’t frugal, i.e. never spending money and/or not being able to. He can spend just enough to keep us interested, and then ‘cheaps’ out when it’s time to really spend.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 2, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
and they couldn't use Brown's bird rights for a Gasol trade
because of the tax. They won’t pursue Amare because they don’t want to sign him to an extension…
They are in the 3rd largest market and are the most profitable team in the league.
It’s not that they can’t win because they won’t go into the tax. They can’t win because they won’t go into the tax AND they (especially Reinsdorf) spend money unwisely. And THEN they won’t go into the tax when they have a chance to spend their way out of mistakes. They basically have to be perfect to build a winner, and they have been far from that.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 2, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
oh, how can I forget this instance of cheapness
Vinny. Del. Coacho.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 2, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Let's say the Magic pony up the cash to sign Jason Kidd
He’s aging, sure, but he’s still damn good, and let’s say the media views him as the #1 free agent out there. The Magic just landed him! They were already good, and now they’re going to be great! And they trade Jameer Nelson to free up the cash used to sign Kidd.
Would anybody think that’s the Magic being cheap? Stupid, maybe – as Nelson may be better than Kidd just as Bill Simmons thought Chandler was as good as Wallace – but not cheap.
by YaoPau on Jul 2, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They wouldn't dump 'Meer for a shitty expiring contract, though, and then not use it. They'd get some sort of value for him.
J.R. Smith could have been something like that in the Chandler trade, but the Bulls dumped him for a bag of balls.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Jul 2, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
basically, if you're defining Michael Heisley as 'cheap'
then Reinsdorf isn’t cheap. But he had different circumstances and I’m holding the franchise to a high standard.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 2, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would argue the Bulls have been more stupid than cheap
Which still cheats the fans
by hitlesswonder on Jul 2, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or Reinsdorf is not cheap concerning Gordon
he just didn’t like Gordon on a personal level. I don’t think that’s much better.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 2, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with that...it's clear that the internal evaluations of players were skewed by some kind of personal bias
There’s no other way to explain prioritizing Deng over Gordon. You know, Deng is an awkward fit at his position (no 3pt shot, no handle, limited athleticism) at least as much as Gordon was at his (too short).
by hitlesswonder on Jul 2, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except Deng brings more to the table than Gordon...
Is younger than Gordon and has a chance to be a better overall player than Gordon…though the injury thing is starting to scare me with Deng.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jul 2, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Deng develops a handle or greatly increases his shooting range it's possible
But I haven’t seen Deng expand his game much in the NBA.
by hitlesswonder on Jul 2, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe a personal bias
Maybe just a defense-oriented bias. Either way, I’ve often wondered what made the internal perception (or just JR’s perception) of Ben so different from his production.
In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!
by wjb1492 on Jul 2, 2009 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
completely agree
I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE
by CONOR6 on Jul 2, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nor did the Bulls have that kind of money to give him.
It is what it is. I would like to wish him luck but he signed up with the enemy so I hope he has a terrible time in Detroit. Enjoy being a bench player. I really liked Ben the Bull…I now hate Ben the Piston!
by ronmexibull on Jul 2, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gordon was on ESPN1000 this morning
and said that the Bulls didn’t extend any type of offer his way, just a short while after Gar Forman stated on those same airwaves that “resigning Ben Gordon is our number one priority.”
by dakoose on Jul 2, 2009 12:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Somebody is lying.
I’ll just assume the Bulls.
by SoulEater7 on Jul 2, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm guessing no one is lying.
Gar was being vague. He said what he needed to say but if he went into detail the sentence would look like this:
"resigning Ben Gordon is our number one priority; if the price is right."
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Jul 2, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please
I understand that the Bulls would take Ben back at 3M per year. Saying “number one priority” is bullshit plain and simple. It is meant to imply the Bulls were working really hard to find a way to bring Ben back. They could have been honest and said what you said “We would welcome Ben back if we can do that while maintaining financial flexibility”. They chose BS instead.
by hitlesswonder on Jul 2, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
All teams BS (well most)
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Jul 2, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hanley said the Bulls called and Gordon's reps said 'don't bother'
KC said that Gordon gave the Bulls a chance but they ‘chose’ not to match.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 2, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gordon said that they never contacted him
hmmmm….
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Jul 2, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
gordon was also quoted as saying he was going to call the bulls, though.
???
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
by Jaina on Jul 2, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does it matter?
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jul 2, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm just saying, i've heard like
5 different versions of who calling or not calling who.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
by Jaina on Jul 2, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blame it all on the agent ;)
I mean, last year we had the Bulls supposedly telling the agent to take the offer or leave it, the agent saying no way, and then Ben sounding almost like he had no idea he was trying to take an offer after a stated deadline. Now this year it’s the Bulls declining to match/making no offer/not even calling.
I’m going to go with this scenario – Bulls have put a call into the agent to say they’d like to discuss keeping him, and Ben’s agent says don’t bother as he’s in Detroit and they’re expecting a great offer, and he probably wants to stick it to the Bulls a bit after the last negotiations. Meanwhile, Detroit makes Ben that offer, and Ben decides he’d like to see if the Bulls might at least match it. (Maybe in seriousness, maybe just out of ego) So the agent calls the Bulls back, says this is the offer and this is your one chance to go higher, and of course the Bulls won’t do that. So the agent calls Ben back and says the Bulls didn’t make an offer.
So, 5 different versions, and everyone’s right from their perspective. All sorts of ways for communication to get messed up when 2 sides are communicating through a third party.
In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!
by wjb1492 on Jul 2, 2009 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one is saying the Bulls came out of the gate making an offer
which is another factor as well.
If you want a guy, call him up and make an offer. The Bulls didn’t.
by Sports2 on Jul 2, 2009 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
It matters not for Ben Gordon who will now be a Piston. GL BG. It matters for how we come to know and learn about Gar Paxdorf.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jul 2, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bet that he called them
and they were like ‘Hold on, give us a couple days … we have to go through a process’ and hung up the phone.
Vinny Del Negro Offensive Gameplan, Part 1
-When there's less than 30 seconds left in the game, that's me with my hands cupped around my mouth yelling.
"BEN! SHOOT! SHOOOOTTTT!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO ME?!?"
-This segues nicely into my Timeout Management classes - order now!
by Prevenge on Jul 2, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they gave him an offer
and then called him back 5 minutes later and told him it had expired.
by potato0328 on Jul 2, 2009 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
interview to be replayed
at 12:40 on AM1000.
by kingj41 on Jul 2, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Donnie Walsh frees up millions to go nuts in 2010, he gets labeled a genius
Gar Paxdorf does the same (with a star already in place), and gets labeled a cheat.
Funny
by Option27 on Jul 2, 2009 12:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
They have a coach.
And we’re giving away talent to get cap space, whereas they were giving away garbage.
(Granted, if they lose out on David Lee they don’t look quite as smart.)
by potato0328 on Jul 2, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was just about to throw in Lee
But you beat me to it.
But in all reality, the Bulls and Knicks were not gonna win a championship anytime soon with the rosters they had in place.
Granted, we have a better record with better overall talent but that doesn’t mean we have to keep everyone just cause we’re so deep.
Yeah they have a coach, but we have Derrick Rose
by Option27 on Jul 2, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny how both could have been on the same team
The hit parade keeps on coming.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 2, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
They also have a "style of play" that could very well attract FAs
And makes the job of drafting for players (or signing other FAs) that fit said style of play a lot easier than drafting (or signing) guys with “upside.”
Forget about the typical N.Y. is the “mecca” argument. Why in god’s name would a 2010 free agent want to play for us instead of the Knicks.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
by PeteRoc on Jul 2, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You really think Derrick Rose (at this stage) is more attractive than a D'Antoni system?
DRose would have to jump to elite status next year to become more attractive than playing for a “proven” coach. If that’s what you’re saying, we don’t need DWade and should limit our search to Bosh. Having said that, please explain how not having Ben’s salary and attractiveness as a 20pg asset is better than outright trying to outbid the Knicks for Bosh.
Walsh has already proven he can dump salary. I fully expect Curry (and possibly Jeffries) to be gone by mid season, putting them in a position to get two max FAs to our one.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
by PeteRoc on Jul 2, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rose and talent around helps
Not only do we have Rose. Noah, Deng and Tyrus help too.
by Option27 on Jul 2, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't be too sure about Tyrus.
The 4th qtr benchings + the 16th pick + the 26th pick means TT is otta here. That leaves Rose, Noah, and Deng vs D’Antoni/Style of Play, Lee, and at least one major FA (because you know they’ll get at least one of them).
Let’s not forget, before this summer is over, the Knicks might have Rubio. Amare has already expressed an affinity for playing in NY.
Jeez….I don’t even follow the Knicks, and I can already make a case for going there instead of here.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
by PeteRoc on Jul 2, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you're saying Tyrus is outta here
I’m guessing it’s for a trade bringing in someone better in return
by Option27 on Jul 2, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you mean
the way we should’ve used Ben if we knew he wasn’t coming back?
by kingj41 on Jul 2, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
beat me to it.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
by PeteRoc on Jul 2, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they let Tyrus go for nothing
THEN I’ll jump ship with the rest of you
by Option27 on Jul 2, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just warning
you to not exactly expect someone better in return. The Bulls would seem to be pleased packaging him with the other Thomas for an expiring deal. One less extension saves more $$$….
by kingj41 on Jul 2, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Out of all the lottery picks we've had since 99
I would say BG was the only thing they got nothing in return for. Well Tyson too, but that’s a different story.
Not that bad
by Option27 on Jul 2, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, out of all the lottery picks
the Bulls have had, they should’ve won a friggin’ title by now. I say it is that bad. They collect assets only to let them go? Pathetic.
by kingj41 on Jul 2, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget...
Jason Williams…got even less for him than the other one I was thinking of…Marcus Fizer. At least they got a couple of good years out of Fizer.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jul 2, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha!
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 2, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's the point
There’s no way we’re trading TT for someone better straight up (not to mention TT doesn’t make enough money to make such a move possible). We’ll have to give up other pieces to get that other guy and you know what….we HAD one of those pieces.
Alternatively, we might have been able to package other overpaid pieces with TT and keep BG.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
by PeteRoc on Jul 2, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah...we missed out on him too
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
by PeteRoc on Jul 2, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Point being
Sometimes salary cap relief is more attractable than players. Combine Tyrus alongside cap relief and you’re onto something.
And no, Gasol wasn’t that piece
by Option27 on Jul 2, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cap relief is attractable when you're the Knicks heading into this past season.
When you’re a young, playoff team with attractive assets, you don’t go into cap relief mode. All you do is set yourself up to overpay for some other FA down the line.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
by PeteRoc on Jul 2, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's also attractable to teams like the Raptors who are a small market
And can’t afford to keep star players ; )
by Option27 on Jul 2, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're the 3rd largest market and most profitable team in the entire league
Why the hell do we need cap relief?
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
by PeteRoc on Jul 2, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying we need it!
Ughhh.
Forget it
by Option27 on Jul 2, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
attractive! the word is attractive!
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Jul 2, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We could trade people Jerome James?
Vinny Del Negro Offensive Gameplan, Part 1
-When there's less than 30 seconds left in the game, that's me with my hands cupped around my mouth yelling.
"BEN! SHOOT! SHOOOOTTTT!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO ME?!?"
-This segues nicely into my Timeout Management classes - order now!
by Prevenge on Jul 2, 2009 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In all fairness,
the Bulls talent isn’t just Rose. Noah and Deng are young, talented players, and T2…well, who the hell knows.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jul 3, 2009 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They have a coach players want to play for and the premier location outside of LA in NBA
Also, NY can offer 2 max contracts, allowing Bosh and Lebron or Wade to play together.
The media and money Lebron or Wade or even Bosh would command as a Knick dwarfs what Chicago can offer. It will be hard to compete with NY for FAs
by hitlesswonder on Jul 2, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chicago was in a far better position than NY was
with far better talent. If it makes you feel better to compare the Bulls to a franchise that was completely mismanaged by Scott Leyden and Isaiah Thomas, than have at it.
by Basketball Smurf on Jul 2, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, the Bulls had a chance to make a quick fix
they chose not to and go the long rebuilding route. The Knicks had no choice.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 2, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
*meant to imply that the Bulls could do a quick fix AND THEN a long rebuilding route
they were in a damned good spot lucking into Rose. Now we know it was just a burden. those #1 picks make money!
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 2, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where was the quick fix?
Was their a missing piece that got traded to another team that I was unaware of?
by Option27 on Jul 2, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A competent coach?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jul 2, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Bulls aren't willing to make moves
You have two post players – Amar’e Stoudemire and Carlos Boozer – just out there for the taking and the Bulls aren’t even interested. They weren’t willing to go out and get Gasol. Did you miss the KG trade? When there were hints that the Nuggets might have been willing to part with Melo, the Bulls weren’t interested because of Deng’s “character.” How many excellent players have to change teams before people realize that the Bulls aren’t interested in making moves. You either get something done or you don’t. I’m sick of the excuses.
They are only interested in getting perfect players. Well, Michael Jordan ain’t walking back through the door.
by Basketball Smurf on Jul 2, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They tried to get KG
Boston had more to offer the next year, remember?
With Stoudamire, they’re clearly choosing to go after Bosh instead. Nothing wrong with that
by Option27 on Jul 2, 2009 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they aren't going to get Bosh
that is what is wrong. I’ve yet to hear a legitimate reason why Bosh would come to Chicago as opposed to Cleveland, Miami or New York?
And how many excuses are we to accept for bad management? At some point you have to get it done. Its been over 10 years since MJ left and the Bulls have never been seriously competitive in that span. 10 years? How many excuses are we going to allow for the most profitable franchise in professional basketball?
by Basketball Smurf on Jul 2, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We'll se when the time comes.
Like I said before, I’m not ready to go crazy until I see what happens after 2010
by Option27 on Jul 2, 2009 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But then the bulls will have this great plan for 2012
Vinny Del Negro Offensive Gameplan, Part 1
-When there's less than 30 seconds left in the game, that's me with my hands cupped around my mouth yelling.
"BEN! SHOOT! SHOOOOTTTT!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO ME?!?"
-This segues nicely into my Timeout Management classes - order now!
by Prevenge on Jul 2, 2009 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
[it involves the apocalypse]
Vinny Del Negro Offensive Gameplan, Part 1
-When there's less than 30 seconds left in the game, that's me with my hands cupped around my mouth yelling.
"BEN! SHOOT! SHOOOOTTTT!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO ME?!?"
-This segues nicely into my Timeout Management classes - order now!
by Prevenge on Jul 2, 2009 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Donnie Walsh didn't have any good players. He's being lauded for getting rid of "bad contracts".
The Bulls didn’t do that with Hinrich or Deng, did they?
And Rose is yet to be a superstar.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jul 2, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is worse than anything I have ever posted on BAB
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jul 2, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess the general assumption is that
the Bulls are going to be buyers next summer, and hopefully trade away Hinrich for expirings for said high-quality player.
While that might be likely, it seems even more likely that it doesn’t happen, and what we’re left is a Rose/Hinrich backcourt and a new, fancy deal for Tyrus.
by NittanyCub on Jul 2, 2009 12:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Tyrus is gone after next season no matter what...
And I think Kirk stays no matter what. He’s their safety blanket. If they can’t get Wade, they’ll still have Kirk who is a better defensive player anyway, right?
Kirk won’t be traded, because the Bulls should be able to offer a max contract without doing so.
by hitlesswonder on Jul 2, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So this is going to be a fun new game!
Reading between the lines of every Ben interview to figure out what he’s really saying about the Bulls org. Too bad he’s just a little too classy to get all the slams out outright, but thank heavens he’s not quite classy enough to resist the veiled barbs.
I suppose I need to start transitioning to calling him Gordon now that he’s a “them.”
In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!
by wjb1492 on Jul 2, 2009 1:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I wonder now how the other Bulls players respond
The bulls org basically is saying that winning is not number one by not signing and keeping Ben at all costs…
Will they be lazy? Can we blame Tyrus’ laziness on this ofseason? Will Noah regress? Will Tim Thomas actually get lazier?
Vinny "Remember, I'm Italian" Del Negro no longer has Ben Gordon on his roster. What will his offensive coaching strategy be now? He won't be able to just yell, "Shoot it, Ben!".
by BCs71 on Jul 2, 2009 1:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
=(
im gonna need a cigarette
I was watching the 1995 Playoffs VS the Magic's and remembered how much I hated Horace Grant. Horace Grant - i hope you burn in bball hell
by Belize on Jul 2, 2009 1:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Finally someone speaks freely
But should’ve said that when we was Bulls. Now, it doesn’t matter, because his hatters will think that he’s saying those things because the Bulls didn’t make him offer this year. But he’s completly right. The fans have been cheated for Gar Paxdorf. Number one priority my ass
by bull83 on Jul 2, 2009 2:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think you can criticize BG
because, as you pointed out, everything he has said is true. And we could all see it even though none of us are directly involved with the Bulls org.
by kozzer on Jul 2, 2009 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know, of anyone on the team (or formerly on the team)
Ben’s the only one I can believe would have hatters. He is quite the snazzy dude.
In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!
by wjb1492 on Jul 2, 2009 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Why would you draft two forwards
if you weren’t going to extend an offer to your shooting guard free agent?
always a great contribution.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 8:33 AM PST
by hhirb on Jul 2, 2009 2:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That's the real q !
if you go into the draft and you know that your not going to sign gordan.Well draft fucking lawson and move kirk to the 2 or something like that.But now we can move Salmons to the 2 and deng too the 3 tt4 noah5 i hate to say it but if deng fails are season fails bc we have a rookie to replace him with lol
by bears rock on Jul 3, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i can see vinny
playing rose off of hinrich and ruining rose’s career already.
by Sambossanova on Jul 2, 2009 6:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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