Live blog announcement: Kirk Hinrich Jersey Retirement in 2015
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 17, 2009 9:20 AM CDT
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PrintI've come to the conclusion that at the same price level, the Bulls like Kirk Hinrich more than Ben Gordon. Several peole discussing how improtant Kirk's leadership is for the team, and who believe the team would really struggle if he were to be traded.
This sentiment was strong last summer as well, so it's not hindsight on Gordon leaving. Everyone within the organization likes Kirk more. At the same price level, I like Ben Gordon more, but I'm not privy to the locker room mechanics, and I have to believe there might be something to it. As it's not one guy who's told me this, but virtually everyone around the team.
One source told me mid season that Gordon basically wanted nothing to do with Rose while Kirk was trying hard to help him improve even while out with injury. Gordon's a consumate professional when it comes to work ethic, but from what I gather, he never really went the extra mile for the team. That could easily be due to his contract dispute and hurt feelings. We'll never know.
So either the Bulls have no idea what they're doing, or they're full of shit and just want to smooth over the Gordon debacle with said gobs of shit.
I'm leaning towards the latter (and that's the preferred choice), because in the brief history of Bulls Confidential (remember Kirk being traded to make room for Gordon?), Doug as a reporter is...well, he's a very good blogger.
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I can't understand how
you would like a bench PG over a SG when you have a starting PG already. Hinrich is no SG so in my eyes and it’s not even compariable.
Why not build a team rather than a group of players you like.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
I think that's just another BS Ben Bashing article
Why would all those reports be on how Derrick loved playing with Ben. You could see BG and Noah getting along.
I think Ben’s more of a loner perhaps, but I don’t think he’d go out of his way to not help the team….he proved time and again when on or off the bench that he’d just play….
I do think it’s obvious that the org’s always preferred Kirk though….
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
im leaning towards the latter as well
obviously gar was only going to say glowing things about kirk to doug, so i could see where he’d get the impression that the org. likes him compared to BG
You are so wrong
2015 is way too soon for a jersey retirement – Kirk will be assuming the Lindsey Hunter role about then and will still have a few seasons to go in that “locker room vet” role.
In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!
heh
maybe. Maybe they do it before he even retires like Harold Baines? :-D
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 17, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions
They just need a new section
One area they can retire jerseys for basketball purposes, the other for “favored son” purposes.
Problem solved. Pax and Kirk can share a jersey retirement ceremony this season, and we can all place bets on which one gives the shortest speech.
In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!
The Harris Club section of the UC
will be changed to Kirk’s Kingdom within 2 seasons. Fans can buy a fake set of mopey shoulders for $15 and walk around looking frustrated.
by NormVanBeer on Jul 17, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
If Hinrich's leadership is so important and valuable, why re-sign Hunter?
Why the hullabaloo last year about how awesome Hunter’s leadership and mentoring helped Rose? I understand that more than one person can be a leader and mentor, whatever, but…
Yeah, you guys root for a crappy organization.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
whoa, what's with the 'you guys' talk?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 17, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
he renounced his fandom a couple days ago
The Bulls have lost me as a fan. If I had any leaning towards one team, it would still be them, but they probably have to do something big to bring me back as more than just a casual observer.
by NormVanBeer on Jul 17, 2009 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
and I'M the drama queen?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 17, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
heh
he just needs to blow off some steam from the thus letdown of an offseason that we’ve had so far. I was pretty close to doing the same myself with the whole BG debacle. He’ll be alright once the season rolls around. We’ll both be at the jersey retirement ceremony with you :)
Hey, I'm still coming here. Bulls are still my "favorite" team, just... because.
And when did I call you a drama queen? And Holy search-and-linkage NormVanBatman!
I’m trying to distance myself from actually “caring” so that when they royally screw up on something about half of us could see coming, I’m not going to care other than to laugh. Probably not there yet because I still have hope Thomas will play himself into their hearts and Deng will come back healthy and excellent. Sure, those would be nice to have w/ a 20 ppg sharp shooter, but still. Yeah. Whatever. ::sigh::
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Maybe he'll go to Blazersedge and destroy what sense of joy they have
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 17, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 17, 2009 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I hope that's not implying that *I'm* the one destroying the sense of joy around here.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
That's a team effort, and even then we're just doing what the coach says :)
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 17, 2009 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, Kirk almost certainly would get his jersey retired with the Blazers
We retire everyone’s number who can’t say no fast enough. Even if you just happen to wear the same number as another star player, as happened last year wit Terry Porter and Bobby “Who?” Gross.
He'll give a nice speech at the ceremony. :)
In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!
A friend of mine who's lived in Chicago doesn't root for any Chicago team
When he was a kid, he put the names of each team for each league in a hat and drew names. I am a Tyrus Thomas dump (no, not what he Twitters about) from putting the names of about 10 NBA franchises in a hat and finding a new team.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
Put the names of these teams into your hat
If you look beyond the Lakers and Cavs (two most obvious teams because they have the biggest stars) there are some really fun teams coming up right now.
- Portland is pretty solid (I got into an entertaining argument last night at RealGM with someone who claimed Portland is a cheap organization)
- Oklahoma City is deep and they have Durantula (and there’s always Thabo for your ex-Bull fix)
- Atlanta has a nice young core (and now they have Jamal, so hey, another Bulls connection)
- Detroit because of BG (and just so you can rub it in the face of the people who wanted him gone when he goes off for 25 PPG next year and get the satisfaction of “I told you so”)
- Orlando because of Dwight, and because I just love their organization. If I worked in the NBA I would want to work for the Magic. The fact that they let two goofballs run the media side of the NBA Summer League (Dante/Galante) for the last 4 years, and then gave them a TV show, and show us sometimes the inner workings of an NBA team…that’s just too cool.
- Golden State because if Anthony Morrow can go off for 47 every night, and you have Curry and you have Monta (and you know Nellie is gonna put all three of those guys on the floor all at once) prepare to be blown away
Those are probably my six favorite teams right now in the NBA, and I’m almost done w/the Bulls (until the JR era is over).
"4 inches, baby!" --ripped off from Kush
by anorexorcist on Jul 17, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Durantula
thats going to catch on quick!
by JockstrapNoah on Jul 17, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
The OKC fans were already all over that one
I’m just using it because I think it sounds cool as hell and it’s not one of those first initial last initial nicknames, nor one of those first initial last initial PLAYER NUMBER nicknames, nor one of those first initial-last name nicknames, nor “K-Smoove” as the man himself came up with after not being sure and thinking about it too long when pressed for a nickname.
Personally I think the guy is cool because during the offseason he comes on ustream (video chat) several nights a week to chat with the fans. great stuff. great guy. great player.
"4 inches, baby!" --ripped off from Kush
by anorexorcist on Jul 17, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd say Durant, Westbrook and Harden are definitely on the verge of stealing my heart.
But I need to see if their organization is going to be as cheap as the Bulls but only broke, too, so they can’t even sniff the lux tax. But if they somehow end up with Cole Aldrich next year, it won’t matter. I’ll root for them.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I've already left the Bulls as a serious fan ... they're still my *favorite team* but I've bee following a lot more teams now.
Just hate the FO. Right now I like, in order:
Bulls [Eh … sentimentality. I don’t even know if they’re here anymore. I like … maybe 3 players on the team.]
Bucks – Brandon Jennings is so cool!! :P
Thunder – I’ve liked them for a while. They’re good. All the good players … they should be going way up this year too, with Ibaka and … so much young talent. I mean … so much.
Detroit is interesting. Austin Daye’s not a bust! Well … yet. WTF. Also, Gordon went there.
Golden State … their FO sucks too. But they have Morrow and Randolph, and Curry and Monta. So. There’s that.
Vinny Del Negro Offensive Gameplan, Part 1
-When there's less than 30 seconds left in the game, that's me with my hands cupped around my mouth yelling.
"BEN! SHOOT! SHOOOOTTTT!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO ME?!?"
-This segues nicely into my Timeout Management classes - order now!
That's pretty much what I mean.
They’re my “favorite” just because they have been, but I’ll follow (if I have the time, which is another concern) more teams for the foreseeable future.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Man, you guys are so wishy-washy
I grew up as a Bulls fan in Atlanta (I live in Chicago as of the last 7 years) because I read The Jordan Rules and became obsessed with MJ, Sam Smith, journalism and the Bulls.
I will admit, JR and the whole organization have tested my patience the past 10 years but I will always be a Bulls fan first and foremost over any sports team. Not that they deserve my devotion, but they have it — deserved or not.
There are still reasons to like this team: Derrick Rose, Joakim Noah and the painfully hilarious antics of VDN to name a few. Well, actually, I think that’s about it. Damnit.
Alright fine, I’m a Magic fan.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Jul 22, 2009 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions
and by "painfully hilarious"
I mean funny a few weeks after the fact. When he does stupid stuff during the game I want to fire him on the spot. ::::Thabo’s inbounding again:::: oh god.
Now who’s pumped for the season!?
by Rose Colored Goggles on Jul 22, 2009 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions
in the early part of this decade, I ended up just following great players that were still underdogs.
Duncan to Shaq and the Lakers.
Yao Ming to everybody
LBJ to league history
It makes things interesting.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Thanks for remembering Doug's bold claim
Which I mistakenly took as gospel. After seeing what happened shortly afterwards, I think it’s become clear that those sources have been compromised. Clearly, Gar Paxdorf still kiss Kirk’s feet more than ever before, and he’s not going anywhere. They’ve just now come to the point where they will throw him in rumors and suggest to insiders like Doug that he’s gonna be traded, when in actuality nothing has changed. Just trying to plant false rumors out there perhaps so no one knows what the team is actually doing.
In any case DT I think it’s time to look for new sources.
"4 inches, baby!" --ripped off from Kush
The Bulls have no idea of what their doing?
I know I’m in the minority on this site, but I’ve ALWAYS valued players like Hinrich & Deng more than players like Gordon & Tyrus. It didn’t bother me losing Gordon except that part of not getting a true tangible asset back. Although I read somewhere (maybe it was Doug) that the Bulls see CAP space as an asset. There is some truth to that type of asset/flexibility…
I read so many posts on this site talking about how “stupid” the organization is…. To me it seems it is just a difference of opinion and analysis. I guess the next couple of years should tell who was right, and if the management is indeed stupid.
Although, since BG has been on the team the Bulls went to the playoffs 4 out of 5 years. However, we didn’t win anything other than 1 playoff series in that time. With BG being gone now and the organization apparently trying different options, we will find out in a few months if having Kirk instead of BG is better for the team.
One last comment, imagine if the Bulls somehow trade TT and filler to get Boozer.
Starters: Rose/Salmons/Deng/Boozer/Noah Bench:Hinrich/Pargo/Johnson/Gibson/Miller
That team is a hell of a lot better than anything we’ve had since MJ era. With the flexibility from not having a Gordon $12M year contract, we could make a run at DWade in 2010. We may have to ask Salmons not to take his extension or to trade him to a team with CAP space
I would still rather take Bosh.
Everyone is talking about Dwyane though. And I don’t know how much of a fan I am of the the Boozer trade idea.
meh
kirk’s still better than gordon
I remember Michael dribbling at the top of the key. Everybody knew to just get the hell out of his way. - Steve Kerr
at no point in their careers
has kirk hinrich, ever been better than Gordon.
by Basketball Smurf on Jul 18, 2009 1:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, I think that's wrong
Ben wasn’t so hot his first couple of years with the team.
In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!
yep
that whole 6th Man of the Year thing was just terrible…
by NormVanBeer on Jul 18, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions
He wasn't better than Hinrich in 2005, which was her point
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 18, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
No, it wasn't terrible. I thought it was well-deserved.
I also don’t think it’s proof that -solely comparing Kirk and Ben in that year – Ben was better than Kirk. There’s nothing wrong with not being better than Kirk when Ben was in his rookie year and Kirk had a year of experience. I was extremely happy with both of them that year. IMO, that definitely held for Ben’s second year as well. By the third year Ben was catching up – I think there’s an argument to be made either way there, but far too close for me to want to call anything.
Notice that he didn’t qualify that statement at all with better “on offense” or better “scorer” or better "shooter, or even argue rookie year vs. rookie year, etc. And I simply disagree that Ben Gordon was better than Kirk Hinrich as an overall basketball player in 04-05 or 05-06.
In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!
Um, Gordon's first two seasons?
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 18, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not saying Kirk's better than Gordon...
but I agree that Gordon always seemed like a bit of a dick. He always said the right thing publicly, but I always got the feeling that he was a me-first, team-second kind of guy.
Right, it's not like the Bulls took the starting PG job away from Hinrich
I mean, Kirk has nothing to be frustrated about, and since he doesn’t say anything about it to the media, that means he’s 100% content with backing up Derrick Rose.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 18, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
What's your point?
Hinrich essentially got the shaft, and he’s been as professional as he can be about it.
well if he didn't suck that year
the Bulls wouldn’t have gotten Rose in the first place. So he only has himself to blame :-p
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 20, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
What's your basis for that?
Are you saying that the Bulls would’ve passed up Rose if Hinrich had had a good season? I highly doubt that.
No, he's saying the Bulls would have made the playoffs,
and thus not been in the lottery with a shot at #1.
In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!
or at least not been 9th worst
and more like 12th worst…
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 22, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions
I doubt that.
Even if Kirk had played up to his career standards, I doubt the Bulls would have been that much of a better team. He wasn’t horrible that year. The main reason the Bulls fell off that year was lack of defensive intensity all around. Singling out Kirk for the Bulls’ struggles that year is both unfair and unjustified.
by Poloplaya14 on Jul 22, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
no, he was horrible.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 22, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
He wasn't half as bad as Ben Wallace.
And it’s not like anyone else on that team was having that great of a year. People just love to hate on Kirk for some reason (probably the white boy thing). Yeah he’s overpaid, but that’s Pax’s fault, not Kirk’s.
well this started by you claiming Hinrich 'got the shaft'
by losing his starting job. So it’s about his contribution to the lottery miracle, not Ben Wallace’s. I do hate white boys though.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 23, 2009 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions
He did get the shaft...
There’s not a single player on the Bulls’ ‘08 team that didn’t underachieve (maybe Nocioni), but Hinrich was the only one replaced. I’m not saying it’s unfair; it’s a business, and Rose is obviously a superior player. What I am saying is that Hinrich could have done what 90% of veteran NBA players would have, which is bitch and moan and demand a trade, which would’ve put the Bulls in a very awkward spot, having to sell low on a player with an undesirable contract. Instead, he handled it in a classy manner and did his best to contribute.
by Poloplaya14 on Jul 23, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
He was actually nightmarishly horrible in November
More like below average the rest of the year. But by that point everything was compounded by Skiles giving up, B#)%*&#!, then the trade for Sir Larry and *rew. And that November was so bad that his season stats stayed low.
And what would such a post be without stats:
November – .331 FG%, .171 3pt%, 10.1 pts, 5.5 Ast, 1.78 A/TO
December on – .430 FG%, .378 3pt%, 11.7 pts, 6.2 Ast, 3.25 A/TO
In honor of the dearly departed, I declare July PB&J month - everyone raise a sandwich to the memory of Ben!
while it's true
maybe he shouldn’t be singled out, as other members of the team also struggled, he was the one with the MOST struggles and was definitely horrible.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
He was pretty fucking horrible.
There, I said it.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Jul 22, 2009 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Its not about any of the bs in the article.
Kirk has more value via trade, and has a friendlier contract.
He is the obvious choice from a management level.
"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming"
I thought I saw BG kick a puppy once.
And then afterward Kirk came a long and nursed it to health. That Kirk is such a swell guy. I hear the pup is now in college and doing well. Awww. NOW WHO WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE ON YOUR TEAM>>!@! The puppy kicker? I think not! Who cares if if Kirk is an overpaid mediocre bench player. He is like the horse whisperer. Rose NEEDS him hovering around him all the time. And he also needs Hunter. And the veteran Pargo. Petty much anyone who will talk at him and be pals. This isn’t a job. This is a family. Rose was just born yesterday and needs a lot of brother figures around him to succeed. BG might have been a good basketball player and one of the few to have been proven a good match with Rose on the court last season with Rose earning ROY and all, but basketball is the secondary thing here. Grown men need to have pals at work.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Jul 18, 2009 10:15 AM CDT reply actions 4 recs
Hows this?
Rose/Kirk
Salmons/Gordon
Deng/johnson
Boozer/Tyrus
Noah/miller
don't let the bed bugs bite
We have "Kurt" Hinrich retiring as "President of Bulls Basketball Operations"
in 2045 to look forward to.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
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