Talking Gordon (yes, still!) on Podcast Paroxysm

dude

you need to get over your self loathing voice issues. you sound normal.

by JSlakov on Jul 16, 2009 7:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

He's gotten a LOT better. :-P

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jul 16, 2009 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dude

Don’t you think he sounds manly?

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Jul 16, 2009 10:28 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

thanks guys!

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 17, 2009 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Holy shit! I didn't know Ray Romano ran a blogging site!

But seriously… wow, so much love for a one dimensional player! The Bulls will ultimately be better off without Gordon! Team defense will be better and we do have guys who can score! I believe Deng will play like a man possesed next season and i think the rookies will make their presence known early. BG is NOT worth 11 million! Hell, at least Deng is a well rounded player! BG is gone and he aint comin back, GET OVER IT!! Don’t get me wrong; i don’t hate Gordon but i’m not in love with him either! Why am i even responding to this post?! I can’t even stand the @#$! who put it up in the first place!! (sigh) i gotta take a du…..

"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta

by The Red Menace on Jul 16, 2009 7:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Isn't the game two main dimensions?

Offense and Defense. Right? So why would you let a player who has an elite skill in one of those dimensions walk for nothing?

BG is a top ten SG for sure and you can make an argument that he is sniffing the 5 spot (because he is younger than rip, Allen and VC)
1. Kobe
2. Wade
3. Joe Johnson
4. Brandon Roy
5. BG
6. Vince Carter
7. Ray Allen
8. Kevin Martin
9. Rip Hamilton

We shouldn’t let players with an elite skill set walk for nothing.

If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.

by Chi 'Till I Die on Jul 16, 2009 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

completely agree

and it’s not like he that’s horrible on defense where he gives up more points than he scores. He creates for other players as well, not through passing, but through getting double-teamed so a player will get left open. Damn, I wish we still had Ben.

by LoveForTheGame on Jul 16, 2009 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know I run the risk of being called names here...

But there is more to be elite on offense than scoring the ball…see, Redd, Michael, who is not on your list…

Also absent from your list, Manu Ginobilli…or all star Maurice Williams…or Andre Iggy….

" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem

is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger

by Dionysus2.0 on Jul 16, 2009 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the main objective on offense is to score, done.

by LoveForTheGame on Jul 16, 2009 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

actually the only objective, especially for a shooting guard.

by LoveForTheGame on Jul 16, 2009 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

Thanks for the backup!

If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.

by Chi 'Till I Die on Jul 16, 2009 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

But not in winning

If it was then Mitch Richmond would have won multipule championships.

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Jul 16, 2009 10:23 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

If you paid attention, it was an offense-only disussion.

Thanks for playing, though.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jul 16, 2009 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

Its a statement of my opinion not a statement on offense

That’s why I start it of with “But”

But thank you for posting yours.

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Jul 17, 2009 7:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You trolled.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jul 17, 2009 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And you are doing.....?

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Jul 17, 2009 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My bad. I should have just flagged.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jul 17, 2009 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thats fine.

I wrote it quickly off the top of my head. Redd, williams and Iggy aren’t better than BG. Mo Williams made the All Star Team because he plays with LeBron as would have a lot of others SG’s

Sure Manu is probably better than BG (although older), but my point wasn’t to be dogmatic, I was just saying that he is top ten for sure and you can argue him near the 5 spot.

Also, please enlighten me… what else is there to offense besides scoring? He shoots a high percentage from the floor, 3pt and FT, Good TS%, can draw fouls (like his end of the game 4 point plays? who else does that?), go to the hoop, and score in bunches like few other non super stars in the league. Please tell me. Lets work this shit out.

If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.

by Chi 'Till I Die on Jul 16, 2009 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He also gives up damn near 20pts a game!

Keep in mind the players BG’s been guarding: DWade, Rip, Ray Allen! I remember many times the Bulls having to take Ben off the court for defensive purposes towards the end of games! Thats how bad his defense was! I got the feelin Ben was satisfied just being an offensive player and not a well rounded one. A player like that is NOT WORTH 11 MILLION!

"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta

by The Red Menace on Jul 16, 2009 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fuck that noise

Way to pull bullshit arguments out of your ass. What games were BG taken off the court for? Because I don’t remember any. BG isn’t that bad at D. He isn’t amazing or anything, but he is a solid C.

I got the feelin Ben was satisfied just being an offensive player and not a well rounded one.

That’s funny as hell! You have a feeling. I don’t give a fuck about your feelings. Nobody on the Bulls worked harder than BG and he did care about D and he did try. However its a two part game and hes fucking good at putting the ball in the basket.

The only time the bulls got murdered by a SG was when Wade went off and hit the game winner. However, he was being guarded the whole time by Salmons that game. THEN, BG scored 43 giving the Heat +5 for the night.

When did BG get killed? Give me specific games? Because there were games where BG was on Roy and Roy had a terrible night finishing 3-13 with 11 points.

Come back with some knowledge.

If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.

by Chi 'Till I Die on Jul 16, 2009 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs

I know C´s egt u degrees but

championships aren´t built with C players..not saying BG is a C, but his D was scetchy..regardless, he¨s gone to the dark force..hopefully we get someone to forget that midget

I was watching the 1995 Playoffs VS the Magic's and remembered how much I hated Horace Grant. Horace Grant - i hope you burn in bball hell

by Belize on Jul 16, 2009 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fair enough.

I just don’t think he is terrible at it. Scetchy… sure, but not terrible. I don’t want him to be the main guy. I wanted him as a 3rd behind rose, and the mystery Free Agent big man. I think as a third option he is good at what he does. Does that make sense?

If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.

by Chi 'Till I Die on Jul 16, 2009 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Now THAT is a common sense answer!

I actually agree with you on that. And for your information I DID reply to your comments, BOTH of them!

"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta

by The Red Menace on Jul 16, 2009 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

rec

for title and first sentence

"...but the devil lives inside this kid, I swear it. It rises out of him in a mist, this baby-faced defiant wrathful version of Pat Kane, escapes his bodily confines to perform satanic miracles all over the offensive zone. The only thing more fearsome than that assist was the keep-in preceding it. The only thing more unholy than his face is his black magic." GMH

by Illini0509 on Jul 16, 2009 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Solid C

I think this is a good assessment. When he came in to the league, he was horrible on D. And that’s where Rose is right now (although I think Rose’s defensive instincts were much better out of the gate). This past season, Gordon played adequate defense, and if he were 6’6’’, he probably would have been a “good” defender.

by kozzer on Jul 17, 2009 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

In the meantime, they DON'T take Thabo off the court for offensive purposes, and...

…see how this works?

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jul 16, 2009 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

Your are absolutley right my friend !

Listen if a player put’s up 20 PPG and allows 5+points on defense giving up atleast 5 points let alone the shame defense on ray allen and god forbid if we faced anybody good.Then he would give up atleast 8 9 points well ? he is only +12 points and i’am not even talking about the ups and downs where 1 night he puts up 30 and the next 14.When we replace him with salmons are team will be stronger defensively and more consistent offensively and finally this will be rose’s team

by bears rock on Jul 16, 2009 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What is "shame defense on ray allen"?

BG did a fine job in the playoffs. I don’t know if you watch the Celtics much but Jesus Shuttelsworth shoots over everybody. Kirk, BG and Salmons were getting scored on when Allen came off screens everyone does.

If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.

by Chi 'Till I Die on Jul 16, 2009 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

is that reply a joke?

Kirk was guarding Paul pierce now idk what Basketball you watch but he is one of the better players in the game.Kirk had his hands full sooooo whats the weakness defensively ? you can’t possibly make a valid argument that Gordan is better then Salmons on defense,Now Gordan did play better D in the playoffs but he looked lost/confused on alot of the pick and rolls he was just out manned.My point is he is like that every game !!!! and regarding to giving up points i don’t mean the points where a player shoots over Gordan and Ben gives a hand on the face or nearly blocks or tips the ball.I am talking about the points he gives up just bc he is short he gets confused or just plain out muscled>The points where a normal SG wouldn’t give up the blatantly obvious mistakes

by bears rock on Jul 17, 2009 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who is "Gordan" (sic)?

"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer

by Granny Waiters on Jul 17, 2009 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

hahahahahahaha

I love the entertainment I get on Blog-a-Bull even if I don’t like the team much anymore.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jul 16, 2009 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

yay

Bears Rock!

by LoveForTheGame on Jul 16, 2009 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

"put's"

LOL

"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush

by Illini15 on Jul 16, 2009 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

God forbid our starting SG giving up 5 points

Vinny Del Negro Offensive Gameplan, Part 1
-When there's less than 30 seconds left in the game, that's me with my hands cupped around my mouth yelling.
"BEN! SHOOT! SHOOOOTTTT!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO ME?!?"
-This segues nicely into my Timeout Management classes - order now!

by Prevenge on Jul 17, 2009 3:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What else is there to offense besides scoring?

Helping other people score. BG is a below average rebounder and assist man. His TS% isn’t as high as one would expect either. BG is a borderline Top 10 offensive player. So when you consider that he is towards the bottom of the league in defense, BG is a slightly above average 2-guard. It’s pretty hard to argue that he is top 5. He is a fun player to watch, and I think he’s worth $11 mil/year to the Bulls, but certainly not an elite 2-guard. Here are some offensive stats for all the players you mentioned and a few others. Hopefully this will shed some light on the issue.

OR% AST% TO% TS% ORtg

Bryant 3.5 23.8 9.7 56.1 115
Wade 3.5 40.3 11.6 57.4 115
Roy 4.4 25.4 9.0 57.3 123
Johnson 2.4 26.4 11.0 53.4 110
B. Gordon 2.0 15.9 11.9 57.3 112
Carter 3.0 23.7 9.8 54.5 112
Allen 2.9 12.6 10.4 62.4 122
Martin 1.7 12.3 12.3 60.1 117
Redd 2.3 13.2 7.9 56.6 111
Hamilton 2.3 23.9 10.3 52.9 108
Ginobili 2.5 23.1 13.3 59.4 114
Williams 2.1 20.1 12.7 58.8 115
Iguodala 3.3 22.4 13.9 56.0 112
E. Gordon 1.9 13.6 13.5 59.3 112
Barbosa 2.4 14.9 9.9 58.8 117

Sorry the formatting got screwed up when I pasted from Excel.

by NPR1998 on Jul 16, 2009 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What are you trying to say exactly?

His TS% isn’t as high as one would expect either.

What are you talking about its the same as Wade and Roys and higher that KB8.

I said hes def top 10 and I think I can argue 5, not easy but I think I can. Where he is really lacking compared to the other players?

If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.

by Chi 'Till I Die on Jul 16, 2009 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't understand it either

who the fuck cares if he’s slightly a below average rebounder or passer for his position. He’s a better shooter then practically all those guys on that list and that means something. We’ve got guys that could cover for his “lack” of rebounding.

by LoveForTheGame on Jul 16, 2009 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

i like Redd a lot, but...

Ray Allen has the prettiest right-hand stroke in the league, Redd the left-handed, but i’ll take BG any day over Redd. not only is BG a craftier and more sophisticated scorer, but he is also a MUCH healthier player.

i love BG, i’ll miss him, but some of the better cap-crunchers here have me understanding why it’s ok that we didn’t sign him, though it still hurts that it was for nothing.

we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt

by BULLieving in Miami on Jul 17, 2009 1:52 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

i think rip needs to move up 4 more spots..i know his age is a factor…but hes way more nice that people think..esp in the right system

I was watching the 1995 Playoffs VS the Magic's and remembered how much I hated Horace Grant. Horace Grant - i hope you burn in bball hell

by Belize on Jul 16, 2009 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

More SG's better than BG

Manu, Ronnie Brewer, Rudy, JR Smith, JRich, Anthony Parker, Barbosa, Mike Miller, Nasty Nate, Delonte… I think you could argue him being top 20 though, and he’s definitely top 30.

by pibb55 on Jul 17, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

this is just a silly reply

after Manu not one of those guys is better than Gordon. And no, i don’t want to argue with you.

by Basketball Smurf on Jul 17, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

what world do you live on?

I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Jul 17, 2009 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

is there any team leading scorer in the world that gets less respect? Convincing people Ben Gordon is awesome is one thing. But certain fans don’t even think he’s good!

by JockstrapNoah on Jul 17, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

style of player

I guess it’s a style of play thing to me. It’s been proven by Wages of Wins that player whose sole purpose to be on the court is to score are liabilities to their team.

Gordon has produced 15.3 Wins during his ENTIRE Bulls tenure. To relate that if you’re unfamiliar with the Wins Produced stat, B Roy produced 14.5 last season alone… Mike Miller produced 13.2 last year. Heres a list of the top 15 Wins Produced at each position last year (http://www.wagesofwins.com/Top152009.html)

I loved watching Gordon as a Bull but I’m glad to see him go so we can move in the right direction.

by pibb55 on Jul 17, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

WoW has proven

that WoW sucks!

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 17, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

Wages of Wins??

We could get David Lee to play SG and Dave Berri’s quasi-analysis would love it.

The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.

by Ozzie Montana on Jul 17, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

WOW doesn't adjust for height.

should be Wins per 48 per inch. Then Ben Gordon would be right up there.

by JockstrapNoah on Jul 17, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dude, did you even listen to the damn podcast?

I replied before I listened to the whole thing and the guy who hosts it admits to being someone who is “down on Gordon” but as he looked at the bulls situation this year he realized it was a “clusterfuck”. What about needing to SCORE THE BALL to play the game? What about the guy mentioning the efficiency of BG (not apparent when watching his game but that based on the stats he just is).

Thanks for stopping by and showing your ignorance as a basketball fan to us.

If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.

by Chi 'Till I Die on Jul 16, 2009 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Haha

Slightly NSFW

"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush

by Illini15 on Jul 16, 2009 8:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

yfBB you should start podcasting as well

and have like a guest from Blog-A-Bull on every week, i’m telling you it would work

by LoveForTheGame on Jul 16, 2009 8:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

No it wouldn't

"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta

by The Red Menace on Jul 16, 2009 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Stop Trolling

If you don’t like this blog then get the fuck out of here.

If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.

by Chi 'Till I Die on Jul 16, 2009 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i would love a weekly BaB podcast

maybe then you could chat with gar and VDN like doug did! and if you can’t find a real guest, you can talk to a commenter for the week. i propose a yfBB vs. D2.0 podcast fight to the death.

by Calogero on Jul 17, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

Yes, Matt talking to a 65 year old from Bridgeport

Then a 12 year old from Naperville. Move over BS Report!

The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.

by Ozzie Montana on Jul 17, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

"I don't give a fuck about your feelings!"

Temper temper. Calm down Chi till i Die! If you can’t handle one mans opinion maybe YOU’RE the one who should bounce. So do you honestly think the Bulls would have won it all this season had they kept Gordon? Do you honestly think the Bulls are world beaters with Gordon as our MAIN scoring threat? Heres the deal: I actually LIKE GORDON, the guy was nothin if not professional, but i damn sure aint gonna kiss his ass like he was the next MJ. Are we clear SweetiePie? Would you like a hug?

"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta

by The Red Menace on Jul 16, 2009 9:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

You must be new here first off reply to my comments using the "reply" button

second don’t add a “!” to my words. That’s bush league :) (see how happy I am? No temper here)

I am perfectly calm. I don’t give a fuck about your feelings. See how calm that is?

So do you honestly think the Bulls would have won it all this season had they kept Gordon?

Never said that. Stop dodging my questions and stop making shit up.

Do you honestly think the Bulls are world beaters with Gordon as our MAIN scoring threat?

Again, didn’t say that stop changing the subject.

Heres the deal: I actually LIKE GORDON, the guy was nothin if not professional, but i damn sure aint gonna kiss his ass like he was the next MJ.

Never kissed his ass never said he was MJ.

Are we clear SweetiePie? Would you like a hug?

What is that? Don’t act so offended because I don’t care what you think. You have done nothing but prove to me that you are ignorant and ill informed. You choose to ignore my questions and make shit up.

If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.

by Chi 'Till I Die on Jul 16, 2009 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

And I'M the one acting offended?

BTW: i didn’t SAY that you said those things, i ASKED you did you HONESTLY THINK those things.
My POINT is that certain players, when they leave for whatever reason, are worth sobbing over and some are not. You have every right to adore BG, i liked him too! I think we both can agree that our memories of Jordan will never die, BG not so much. Lets move on shall we?

"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta

by The Red Menace on Jul 16, 2009 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What is wrong with you.

You never engaged me in an argument you just kept throwing out random rhetorical (in your mind I’m sure) questions. Your point makes no sense.

If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.

by Chi 'Till I Die on Jul 16, 2009 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

WTF?! What is wrong with YOU?

Are you still ON this?! Dude, i’ve moved on! You wanna talk about trolling, you’re heading into that zone right now!

"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta

by The Red Menace on Jul 16, 2009 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was responding to you

I wasn’t done with this because you never actually responded to me. You can try to say its over and “lets move on”, but you still haven’t answered my questions or provided an intelligent argument to back up your asinine statements. I am assuming you do this because you actually don’t have an informed basketball opinion. Until you actually respond to my argument which includes facts and not my feelings, I will continue to call you out for your ignorance.

If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.

by Chi 'Till I Die on Jul 17, 2009 7:05 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

First off, you're not responding, your trolling.

Second, you mentioned in an earlier comment that i didn’t engage you in you’re argument. I don’t have to ENGAGE you. I was making a COMMENT. It seems that you just want an argument based on facts that don’t amount to much and i’m not gonna give you one. If you want to Spaz-out fine, do it alone. No one is here to entertain you or ENGAGE you!

"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta

by The Red Menace on Jul 17, 2009 7:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Glad you cleared this up

So your not here to engage in intelligent conversation. Check.

You just want to make “comments” without responding to people who challenge you. Check.

You don’t understand what Trolling is. Check.

Thanks for the help. I will just mock you when you make asinine “comments.”

If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.

by Chi 'Till I Die on Jul 17, 2009 7:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just so you understand.

I have NO problem having an intelligent conversation about the Bulls. But for someone to value a one dimensional player as if their they’re the SECOND COMING obviously shows that they’re not very intelligent. AND THEY DESERVE TO BE MOCKED.

"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta

by The Red Menace on Jul 17, 2009 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

When did I say hes the second coming?

I said before I envisioned him as the 3rd option on the team behind Rose and Mystery FA big man. You keep saying hes all these things without any proof or evidence and I am calling you out for it and want to hear why you have come to these conclusions. It wasn’t a good basketball move to lose a good player for nothing.

If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.

by Chi 'Till I Die on Jul 17, 2009 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Looks like the comments got a little off track

As for the podcast I thought it was great stuff. You didn’t sound nearly as upset as your comments on the blog lol.

by bigballa10 on Jul 16, 2009 10:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I will admit that it was informative.

Lord knows its hard being a Bulls fan! (I say this between gulps of scotch.)

"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta

by The Red Menace on Jul 16, 2009 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If the Heat Get Odom and Boozer

we should make a push for beasley, we might as well, cuz we aint gettin FA for a long time, we could just build a young team with a core of Rose Beasley Noah
like maybe and expiring contract, Luol or Tyrus and some picks

"Game 7 of the 2011 Finals.. 10 seconds left in the game, the score is tied up 92-92.. Kobe with the ball he drives in.. IS BLOCKED by bosh, Rose picks it up Runs it down Throws up a pass to Wade.. WADE SCORES! GAME OVER ! BULLS WIN BULLS WIN!"

by Faizamaze on Jul 16, 2009 11:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

They're not getting Odom and Boozer without giving up Beasley

There’s nothing else on that team outside Wade and Chalmers

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Jul 17, 2009 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Salmons is better than Gordon!

by Jesus Presley on Jul 16, 2009 11:34 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs

i hope so

i love how salmons hits contested threes
in they faces

"Game 7 of the 2011 Finals.. 10 seconds left in the game, the score is tied up 92-92.. Kobe with the ball he drives in.. IS BLOCKED by bosh, Rose picks it up Runs it down Throws up a pass to Wade.. WADE SCORES! GAME OVER ! BULLS WIN BULLS WIN!"

by Faizamaze on Jul 17, 2009 12:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gordon certainly never does that. Especially not when he's fouled.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jul 17, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs

What will be missed most is Gordon's ability to take and hit the crunch time shots

that’s the biggest thing that will be missed. The scoring part will be filled by committee, same as Jordan’s 32 was during the 93’-‘94 season. Yes, I know PJ was coach then and VDN isn’t even in the same solar system, but I still see the scoring part not being a problem. Taking the big shots and making them is where I want to see who will step up.

For the Gordon not giving up as much as he scored, look back at this game

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=270304015

This quote sticks out

Skiles said a key to the game was putting Griffith on Redd in the fourth quarter. Redd was held to two points after scoring 26 points in the third quarter.

“We struggled with Redd for much of the game,” Skiles said. “I thought Griff picked us up, did a great job. He did a nice job chasing him around and being physical as much as he could without fouling.”

Gordon scored 48 and Redd has 52, this is the game where both guys were in the zone. Yet, we were down 18 in the 4th until Griff started guarding Gordon. Redd is a SG, and when he gets going, he is hard to stop, and yes Kirk might have covered him some but more than likely Kirk was on Mo Williams. So, who was guarding Redd that game? Yep, BG and what was happening until Griff was put on him?

BG can light it but he usually gives up just as much sometimes.

How ’bout this game?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=270102004

Ben Gordon gave the Bulls a 96-94 lead when he hit two free throws with 5.2 seconds left. The Suns decided to go for the win, and after a timeout, Diaw caught the inbound pass near the right block. Steve Nash set a pick on Gordon and Barbosa caught Diaw’s pass near the top of the key and buried the winning shot.

“He went under the pick, so I had space to jump and shoot,” Barbosa said.

It was a costly mistake by the Bulls.

“It was as simple as it gets,” Chicago coach Scott Skiles said. “It relies on us falling for it and we did. We went inside the 3-point line instead of staying outside. We hustled back out, and they hit a good shot. It’s a mistake we can’t make right there.”

41 points for Gordon with no Kirk playing, but Barbaso gets 20 off the bench and the game winner on Gordon. Plus, Gordon missed the game winner he had trouble getting up.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=261227004

40 points and the win, but Wade went out in the 1st quarter, remember the grabbing the wrist by Kirk? The Heat’s 2 SG combined for 35 points.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=271231004

Remember this????
Dwight Howard had 17 points and 22 rebounds for Orlando. He also blocked five shots and made three steals, including a key swipe from Gordon late in the fourth quarter to improve the Magic’s remarkable road record to 15-5.

A Shooting Guard getting stripped by a Center/Power Forward!! U kidding me?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=280103004

With the game tied in the second overtime, Gordon lost the ball as he was dribbling to set up a shot, Jack picked it up after it was tipped and drove for a go-ahead layup and was fouled by Gordon. His free throw put the Trail Blazers up 111-108.

Roy with 25 points going 10-11 from the line. Gordon, 32 pts, 1-1 from the line.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=290420002

The shoot out, Gordon with 42. Allen, 30 pts with most of it coming in the 2nd half. Plus the game winner.

Look, Gordon can score but he had major flaws and these games aren’t the only ones, there was so many others. His ability to score is great but sometimes his D and decision making can kill you. Dumars wants another Vinnie Johnson, Gordon doesn’t want to be that.

As a Bulls fan I will miss Gordon and his big game shots, but to me, paying $11 million a year isn’t worth it.

by BullsAttitude on Jul 17, 2009 12:29 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs

Great points.

Couldn’t agree more!

"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta

by The Red Menace on Jul 17, 2009 1:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gordon and his big shots

thats definetly the part of gordon that will be missed this year….yes gordon was an efficient scorer, but his offense can be made up….Yes it wont be as efficient, it may take more shots, but with a healthy luol, a special rose, and tyrus and kirk both out to prove thier worth to the league the offense will come from somewhere. Aside from that the bulls will get better defensively so ultimately the points that we werent able to make up that were gordons wont matter if we also keep the points that team wouldve lost with gordon….it really would cancel out.

The best argument i hear about gordon is how going to the future the bulls would be set at sg, and now they are lost. I agree there is some truth to that, but i also think that if we got a bosh or amare, then gordons scoring would be missed even less. Whoever is gonna be our star forward is going to be our number 1 option. Derrick i am sure will become number two, mainly with his ability to get to the line, finish when the attention is on option number 1, and a mid range game which i believe in two years will be deadly. yes gordon can be the third option, but i have always questioned how good of a spot up shooter gordon was, he always seemed liek the guy who needed to get into rythem by putting the ball down on the floor at least once. So maybe keeping a luol deng and just having another decent shooter (theres always like one in every draft) would give you a real nice team, sans gordon…again the only thing that i would question is clutch shooting, amare is not known for being clutch (just dominant?) and luol tends to dissapear late in the game. D. Rose possibly could become that player but its still unknown. But simply put i dont know if that one area is something the bulls need to cover until they are actually contenders, and when that happens then free agents will want to sign with the bulls at any rate…

Im actually very intrested to see how gordon plays out with the pistons, its yet another reason im excited for this season already…but seriously this team isnt in as bad a situation many keep acting like it is. This team has way too much potential and already alot of talent, in order for this team to be mediocre, the team would have to not improve a single bit from last year, and that would still make them a 30-40 win team. If anyone gets better (Luol Deng plays like ’06, Derrick Rose gets better, tyrus gets better, what are the chances of those things happening…oh yea…PRETTY GOOD!!!) this team probably makes the playoffs, if all 3 improve, the definetly make the playoffs…then add a superstar forward…and were once again the up and coming chicago bulls…..

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Jul 17, 2009 2:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh i forgot

REC!!!!!!!!!

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Jul 17, 2009 2:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There is one big ass problem with your post

The only game from 2009 is the last one and that proves BG’s value. No one is trying to say BG is the perfect player and I am aware of his flaws. However, he did grow as a player and all those HUGE issues that you cite above are from two-three years ago or from last year (I don’t think anyone here would try and say that BG had a good year last year).

He took a huge ass step in the right direction this year. He didn’t cost us games and he proved he is one of the more dangerous shooters/scorers in the game. Also, he isn’t even in his prime yet.

I appreciate what you are trying to do and I am not trying to fight, just pleast point out what games we were killed in this past season.

If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.

by Chi 'Till I Die on Jul 17, 2009 4:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

"I am not trying to fight."

You could have fooled me!

"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta

by The Red Menace on Jul 17, 2009 7:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Riddle me this.

How did BG GROW as a player? Last time i checked ‘growing’ meant becoming more effective on BOTH sides of the court and BG never even attempted to play defense! You also mentioned that he took a huge ASS step in the right direction because he DIDN’T COST US GAMES? This is a step in the RIGHT direction? As a player your’re not SUPPOSED to cost your team any games! I’m not giving BG credit for something he’s supposed to be doing from the get-go! I’m sorry but GROWING does not mean: become MORE ONE DIMENSIONAL! Fans should have HIGH expectations for their players! Players should have even HIGHER expectations for themselves!

"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta

by The Red Menace on Jul 17, 2009 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No Problem

How did BG GROW as a player? Last time i checked ‘growing’ meant becoming more effective on BOTH sides of the court and BG never even attempted to play defense!

Um, he did become more effective on both sides of the court. He upped his offensive game, his score, his shooting percentages and WON games for us. He did improve his defense and as I noted before when we played the Blazers before the trade deadline BG was on Roy and Roy finished with 3-13 for 11 points. Remember, BG was on him. When did BG refuse to play offense? When was there a game were we got torched because of him?

You also mentioned that he took a huge ASS step in the right direction because he DIDN’T COST US GAMES? This is a step in the RIGHT direction? As a player your’re not SUPPOSED to cost your team any games!

Yeah, he did take a step in the right direction. He used to cost us games and that was bad and I was critical of him for that. It is a step in the right direction because all players can cost teams games. Rose had some bad games and didn’t play D and cost us a win. Hinrich couldn’t stay in front of TJ Ford when Rose was benched for the forth Q and let Ford go off and Hinrich cost us the win. Salmons was given the ball at the end of the Miami game and Wade stripped the ball from him and hit the game winner. Salmons cost us that game. Players do that because they aren’t perfect. When did BG do that this year? If he didn’t cost us a game this year that’s a good thing because it shows he is growing as a player.

I’m sorry but GROWING does not mean: become MORE ONE DIMENSIONAL!

How did BG become more one dimensional. He improved his offensive game and while he still isn’t a good defender he got better, he improved. True, he isn’t a lock down guy, but for his size and for what he is asked to do for the team every night he did a good job this year.

If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.

by Chi 'Till I Die on Jul 17, 2009 8:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

When did BG refuse to play offense?

I meant to say Defense in that sentence.

If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.

by Chi 'Till I Die on Jul 17, 2009 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here we go

This is what i hate about Bulls fans who defend Gordon to the death! You mentioned how BG isn’t a lockdown defender for a guy his size. THAT IS NO EXCUSE. Let me throw some names at you: Walt Frazier, Isiah Thomas and Gary Payton. All small guards, all are good offensive players who PRIDE themselves on their defense! Obviously BG isn’t perfect! (Only MJ) But as i said in my last comment: HIGHER EXPECTATIONS! If i come off as being hard on BG its because i’ve seen this guy do some INCREDIBLE things on the court so it baffles me that he doesn’t seem to apply himself as much on the other end! AND this is the guy that wants to be THE MAN on the team. I wouldn’t mind him taking a dip in his offensive numbers if he would TRY some lockdown D. If you wanna be THE MAN play like THE MAN!

"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta

by The Red Menace on Jul 17, 2009 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What is wrong with you.

Here we go
This is what i hate about Bulls fans who defend Gordon to the death! You mentioned how BG isn’t a lockdown defender for a guy his size. THAT IS NO EXCUSE. Let me throw some names at you: Walt Frazier, Isiah Thomas and Gary Payton. All small guards, all are good offensive players who PRIDE themselves on their defense!

When did I “mention” that BG is a lock down player for his size?

he did become more effective on both sides of the court. He upped his offensive game, his score, his shooting percentages and WON games for us. He did improve his defense and as I noted before when we played the Blazers before the trade deadline BG was on Roy and Roy finished with 3-13 for 11 points.

That is what I said. Never said that he is a lock down guard for his size. I simply said he improved.

If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.

by Chi 'Till I Die on Jul 17, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What is wrong with YOU?

I don’t think you read my comment accurately. Read it again. And how SPECIFICALLY did BG improve his defense? ONE game against the Blazers doesn’t count as INPROVED DEFENSE! Throw some facts at me on this one.

"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta

by The Red Menace on Jul 17, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You guys are gettin' at it!

Damn! Good shit.

by Rose Colored Goggles on Jul 17, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

just for the record

gordon wasn’t guarding allen on the game winner; you didn’t explicitly say that but it’s kind of implied. “lockdown defender” hinrich was on him

by Calogero on Jul 17, 2009 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is the NBA you are talking about.

If Griffin could hold Redd to 2 pts every quarter then he’d be a starter and an all-NBA 1st team defender. Look at the guys you named:

Redd
Barbosa
Wade
Roy

These guys score on EVERYBODY!!!

Then you go on to point out the Celtics. Ray Allen is going to the hall of fame! But interestingly enough, when he hit the game winners and 3’s that sent the game into overtimes, Gordon wasn’t even on the court…yet people will still blame Gordon for this.

You can compile a list of games where every player in the NBA has been lit up by the opposition. At least Gordon was able to give it back in these games you named.

Let’s talk about a game against N.O. last year when Chris Paul lit Hinrich up for 37 and 13 and Hinrich was scoreless. In fact, Hinrich was so ineffective that Gordon had to log minutes at the point and finished with 31 pts.

Or let’s talk about how in March of this year Rondo had 26 and 10 and tore Rose and Hinrich a new asshole (Rose had 11 and Hinrich had 6).

Or the playoffs this year where Rondo had his way to the tune of averaging a triple double against the Bulls. If the Bulls PGs hold Rondo in check then the Bulls would have won the series in 4 games!!

It’s just so biased the way some of you isolate Gordon instances but refuse to acknowledge that the VERY SAME THING goes on at every other position on the team. At least Gordon was able to hit back against these players when matched up with them. Increasingly moreso, Rose will do the same.

by lexdiamonds0730 on Jul 18, 2009 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

With all the bickering between Red Menace and Chi Till I Die

Am I the only one who thought of this?

by torch on Jul 17, 2009 10:24 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

LOL! Torch, you made my morning!

Nothin beats a good old fashiond cripple fight! TIMAAAAAAAAY!!
But seriously, Ben is gone and to an extent, i am gonna miss him, but as Bulls fans it’s time to get on with our lives! If we’re gonna celebrate the past The MJ PIP era is IT! That was TRUE greatness! THOSE were the good ol days! If the Bulls brass takes care of business like they should in 2010 we will be reliving those glory days all over again!

"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta

by The Red Menace on Jul 17, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're on a blog during the summer about a team that isn't doing shit in the off-season.

I think the logical conclusion is: you (we) have not gotten on with our lives any in real sense or have no life to actually get on with.

I would argue that if you don’t like the talk, you ignore a Bulls-related blog until October. It’s what I did last year, and my life was better for it.

As in, go get an actual life.

(Also, if you’re going to get all defensive and pissy about this, it will just prove how much you suck. I hope you don’t.)

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jul 17, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Before i jump to conclusions i want to be sure.

Was this comment directed at me?

"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta

by The Red Menace on Jul 17, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No.

He used the reply button to direct his comment so that it appeared after your post, but he was really talking to Matt.

Vinny Del Negro Offensive Gameplan, Part 1
-When there's less than 30 seconds left in the game, that's me with my hands cupped around my mouth yelling.
"BEN! SHOOT! SHOOOOTTTT!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO ME?!?"
-This segues nicely into my Timeout Management classes - order now!

by Prevenge on Jul 17, 2009 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes follow tygers example and get a life

unless your at work and have nothing to do.

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Jul 17, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fellas calm down..

I’m all about peace and love with a little good natured fun thrown in. If you loved BG and want to discuss him FINE thats your perogative!(Big ups to Bobby Brown.) But don’t automatically jump on me if my opinions don’t mesh with yours. ITS JUST AN OPINION. You can take it or leave it. This is what a blog is all about: OPINIONS. Some nice, some not so nice. If we can’t have a good natured discussion (however silly) and shoot the breeze over a BASKETBALL TEAM. whats the point? Don’t get it twisted: I take Bulls business seriously, just not THAT seriously.

"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta

by The Red Menace on Jul 17, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was being sarcastic

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Jul 17, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Were you?

"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta

by The Red Menace on Jul 17, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do you think tyger is following his own advice?

Watch how many times he comments.

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Jul 17, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You guys are all right with me!

I’m just breakin balls!

"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta

by The Red Menace on Jul 17, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha, it's cool

You might get it someday. Maybe.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jul 17, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Alright guys i gotta get to work!

I’m Charlie Sheen’s limo driver and we’re cruisin for escorts tonite!
Until next time!

"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta

by The Red Menace on Jul 17, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

Come on

Are you forgetting the Hershey Hawkins and Brent Barry era?

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Jul 17, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sorry I didn't give you more examples from this past year....

How bout these?

I’ll start with the game where he locked down Brandon Roy and made him only 3 – 13 from the field.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=290112004

Let’s look at the stats

B Roy had 11 pts and Gordon had 17pts, only outscoring Roy by 6 pts. Both had 3 assists. Roy had 3 TOs, while Gordon had 4. Now, here is the something I’m goin to show you, Gordon had 3 total rebounds, while Roy had 8.

Point made here is, while Roy didn’t have a great scoring night, he found somewhere else where he could make himself useful and that was rebounding. If Gordon isn’t scoring, he’s not really helping you anywhere else.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=290303030

This is a game I actually attended. Raja Bell was killing us in the 1st half as this is taken from the story…

Bell scored all 18 of his points in the first half before turning into a decoy when his injured biceps proved too painful to shoot, while Felton had 18 points and nine assists in Charlotte’s season-high fourth straight win.

Gordon 6-15 for 14 pts.

Raja Bell playing 11 less minutes…….7-11 for 18 pts.

There was many times that night I remember Gordon being wide open on a 3 and I thought it was going to be good, but I was wrong. Want to see pictures, just let me know your email and I will send them to you.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=281227001

Joe Johnson scored a season-high 41 points, Josh Smith also set a season high with 24, and the Hawks withstood Ben Gordon’s 3-point barrage to beat the Bulls 129-117 on Saturday night.

It’s great to score 33 pts and 6 of 8 from downtown, but to give up 41 pts doesn’t help.

Here, check the rest of the season and you are bound to find a few games here and there.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/schedule?team=chi

Look, Gordon did improve and players will do that when they work on their game but I will go out on a limb and suggest that alot of his improvement was due to the addition of a one Derrick Rose. Just like, I think Memphis made the jump from good team from C-USA to a team that went to the National Championship game because of a Derrick Rose.

I will miss Gordon and his scoring outbursts and big shots, but let’s remember he turned down 2 good offers from the Bulls. The Bulls made generous offers and he declined both until he changed his mind for the last one which was taken off the table.

Gordon wants to be the man, hell, even some people commented this season (on this site) how Gordon seemed to be a little jealous of Rose. I believe it to an extent.

He is not worth $11 million and he will never be the Man on a team, regardless how bad he wants to be. He can be the man on some losing teams, but will never be the man to lead a team to a title.

Oh yeah, that 4 point play he had against the Pistons, how did he get that? From Rose driving to the basket, drawing the defense in, missing the shot, getting his own rebound and kicking it out to an open Gordon! Which the season before, Gordon would have been covered, but that is what a Superstar in the making can do for you!

by BullsAttitude on Jul 17, 2009 10:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

who the hell is arguing that Gordon never got outplayed?

the Bulls managed to have the top defensive team in the NBA a year when Gordon started. The Bulls The Bulls haven’t had very good interior defense for the last 2 seasons. That contributes to a lot of these scoring outburst. Miller is a poor help defender, Tyrus play can be erratic, especially on defense. The Bulls played a lot of the season with Noce playing the 4 and Gooden playing the 5. God awful. The only good defender the Bulls have at the 4 and 5 spots is Noah, and he was awful over the first 30 or so games of the season.

Scoring guards score. The fact that he is able to outplay stars like Roy on occasion, or keep up when a guy like Johnson has an outburst should be seen as a plus.

You can go through every player in the league and pick out games where there opponent outplayed them. I don’t know what exactly you think you are proving.

by Basketball Smurf on Jul 18, 2009 1:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow, a man with common sense.

I respect that basketball smurf. I made the exact same point above before I saw that you made the point here. Everybody in the league gets it put on them from time to time.

by lexdiamonds0730 on Jul 18, 2009 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Chi' Till I Die wanted games from this past season, not from seasons ago.

So, I gave instances where Gordon hurt us this year. Everybody gets outplayed from time to time but the point is, if Gordon isn’t scoring, he isn’t doing anything else, plain and simple. People are trying to say he improved tremendously on defense, no he didn’t.

The best comment ever made about Scottie Pippen was “He can go 1 for 10 from the field, have no assists but still have a tremendous impact on the game!” I will definetly say Gordon is a better pure shooter/scorer than Pippen, but Pippen was that type of player that knew if he wasn’t scoring, he put his focus on another area, contribute where the team needed him. Gordon never learned to do that.

But if you look at points I made, where he outscored Roy, but Roy still got 8 rebounds to Gordon’s 3, that is 5 extra possessions that Blazers got. Don’t forget the extra TO Gordon had, so outscoring Roy by 6 pts didn’t mean crap cause Roy outplayed him pretty much in every other aspect.

Same against Johnson, Johnson also had 8 assists to go with the 41 points. Once again contributing in areas where Gordon didn’t. Just as many times as Gordon would score 30 or more, the opposing SG would have just as much or more, please reference the Mil game from ’07 where Gordon had 48 and Redd had 52. Bulls down 18 in the 4th until Skiles put Griffin on Redd!

If Gordon was struggling, how many times did he just keep shooting, regardless if he started hitting or not, instead of looking for his teammates? It was very, very rare. That is where he hurt us and the Bulls.

Look, he score, we know that but so could Reggie Theus, remember him for the Bulls. How bout Mitch Ritchmond? Hell, even Vinnie Johnson could score but the Pistons still started Thomas and Dumars cause they better well rounded players.

Jordan even said once of his toughest opponents to play against was Dumars. My point is, I will Gordon and his ability to take the big shot, but it is not worth 11 million or more. He got his money, that is great, but he is gone and it’s not the end of the world the Bulls didn’t resign him. Jeez, if it does work out and the Bulls get a major FA next season, this will all be an after thought.

by BullsAttitude on Jul 18, 2009 1:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Thomas and Dumars were better players than Johnson.

Isiah Thomas and Joe Dumars are Hall of Famers!! Johnson is not, and wouldn’t have been even if he started. So he didn’t start because both of the guys ahead of him were better than him. That’s NEVER been the case with Gordon as a Bull. If the Bulls had drafted Brandon Roy in 2006 and Hinrich and Roy were the PG/SG, THEN Gordon would have to come off the bench for the Bulls and it wouldn’t be a question. But when you ask Gordon to come off the bench behind Hinrich and Duhon then things get a little dicey.

by lexdiamonds0730 on Jul 18, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs