The 2009-10 season: operation "don't be bad"
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 12, 2009 3:02 PM CDT
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PrintIt takes a lot of logical leaps when trying to figure out what the Bulls are doing. Because it's possible, and even likely, that the Bulls themselves don't even know what they're doing. They claim to be players in 2010 free agency now that they didn't pay money to Ben Gordon, but we can't know that was the actual driving force. I doubt it's the reasoning shared by some fringe followers in that they figured they'll be better without him. It's possible that the basketball people would've kept him but the owner simply didn't like him.
But let's say that even if they weren't letting Gordon go to better position themselves for 2010, they'll retroactively claim that as a reason and that's the new plan. A further logical step in that plan would've been the proposed 3-way trade with Utah and Portland, basically removing Hinrich's 2010 money (and the cap hold Tyrus Thomas would have as a restricted free agent) for the expiring contract of Carlos Boozer.
And I liked that deal because it wasn't just a salary dump, but an upgrade (though I don't think that much considering who they'd give up) on the court, even if just for a rental player. Just trying to dump 2010 salary at dramatic expense of the on-court product won't ultimately work, because to give themselves a chance at a max free agent in 2010, the Bulls not only have to be financially able to outright sign (or acquire in a sign/trade) a max free agent, but they have to keep their current reputation of 'a team on the rise'.
Now, I don't think they're a team on the rise now. They have Rose, obviously, but nearly this entire team will be turned over before the next great Bulls team is built (including this mythical free agent), and they have a coach that won't last much longer. But that label seems to be the consensus around the league, fueled by lots of time on national TV in a thrilling playoff series. Would they truly be that much of a different team if they were swept by the Magic instead of losing in 7 games against the Celtics? No, but I really do believe that it helped the perception of the Bulls to have the end of their season turn out the way it did.
And I also think that matters to free agents, in a scenario where a lot of teams will have cap room (some just claiming to be in the race for the top talent but likely just saving money) including the teams trying to keep their own stars. So the Bulls need some kind of hook to get talent interested, and what they can offer is being 'a team on the rise', with an unselfish star in Rose, and making that free agent believe he's the missing piece, or at least moving to a better situation.
If the next season turns disastrous and they miss the playoffs, I don't think anybody's coming, whether they have the cap room or not. And then they're in very deep trouble.
But it may not be so easy as to simply stay the course on the way to another average season (if still 'a team on the rise'), as with the cap possibly decreasing several million dollars in 2010 the Bulls may have to clear more room to both get a max free agent and adequately fill out the roster to where that free agent thinks he's upgrading his situation. Even if they renounce the rights to Tyrus Thomas (more on that situation in the future...) it's still nearly $38m in committed salaries, so the most likely ways to trim from there is hoping Salmons opts out or deal Hinrich.
So it'll be a balance for the rest of this current offseason (and through the trade deadline) to both position themselves as best they can in 2010 free agency while still remaining relevant as a desireable destination for free agents. It's not easy, but it's something they should be looking to do.
Or the idea of a 2010 free agent bonanza was a lie in the first place?
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I do not see the two as being mutually exclusive; i.e. Paxson is working to make the team a contender
while Reinsdorf is milking the cash cow to support the White Sox (and of course telling neither Paxson or the public his real motive).
In that light, letting Gordon go and keeping Kurt makes sense, since the mainstream media and fans prefer Kurt to Ben.
Or the idea of a 2010 free agent bonanza was a lie in the first place?
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
fans prefer kurt?
I don’t think so. At least not according to this site.
by LoveForTheGame on Jul 12, 2009 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions
this site is not a good representation
of humanity Bulls fans.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 12, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 8 recs
Just thinking
If Salmons opts out and we do in fact get Wade
Rose
Wade
Deng
Tyrus
Noah
Theres no one in this lineup who can shoot the three…
but im really hoping Deng is gone by then so we’ll see
"Game 7 of the 2011 Finals.. 10 seconds left in the game, the score is tied up 92-92.. Kobe with the ball he drives in.. IS BLOCKED by bosh, Rose picks it up Runs it down Throws up a pass to Wade.. WADE SCORES! GAME OVER ! BULLS WIN BULLS WIN!"
rarely talked about Deng this summer
because
1) I think he’ll be good again (and unlike apparently many, remembered when he was good)
2) they can’t move him anyway
3) he’s still young
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 12, 2009 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
hopefully Vinny is fired on christmas
I really can’t see Deng getting back to his old form until Vinny is gone
by LoveForTheGame on Jul 12, 2009 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions
is firing a coach on christmas a money saver or something?
by LoveForTheGame on Jul 12, 2009 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions
No, it'd just be ironic and hilarious
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Jul 12, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions
X-Mas firings
It’s done to save the coach and organization from overblown media attention since many reporters have the day off.
I feel the same way
Deng will be good again you just don’t forget how to play ball. Deng can improve his 3 point shot and probably will starting this season and Wade has already improved his trey.
Homecoming
Seems like a system guy to me
He’s going to have to change his game to be successful on this running Bulls team. He’s not going to get those wide open mid-range shots that Skiles got for him.
He’s a talented guy, but is he a good fit? Let’s really, really hope so.
i dont think were gettin anyone in 2010
hope im wrong tho
I was watching the 1995 Playoffs VS the Magic's and remembered how much I hated Horace Grant. Horace Grant - i hope you burn in bball hell
I'm done with all this speculating. When the Bulls do something then I'll get excited.
Jerry Reinsdorf bought the Bulls in March of 1985. This man lucked into the greatest thing an owner could ask for. A rookie by the name of Michael Jordan. As much as I hate Jerry Krause, he did have enough of a basketball mind to surround Jordan with what he needed (although Krause didn’t do such a bang up job after Jordan left). Reinsdorf knew he’d lose Jordan and the cash cow if that happened so he accommodated him to an extent. But since 1998, Reinsdorf has been pocketing record revenues and has been operating the Bulls on the cheap. People argue that he spent on Ben Wallace and that he’s up against the cap limit most years, but since there has been a luxury tax I don’t think there’s been a team who has won the championship who hasn’t paid a good amount toward the luxury tax.
This organization seems as if it’s not being run by basketball people. I know Pax was the GM and now Foreman is, but it seems those guys really have no authority and that Reinsdorf makes all the decisions anyway. I understand that he’s the owner, but most owners stay out of the basketball side of things. Not Reinsdorf though.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jul 13, 2009 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Amen, the Bulls management is cheap and pathetic.
The salary cap will be limited by two very mediocre players in Deng and Hinrick for 3 plus years. You would need two superstars (Kobe, Lebron, Bosh, Wade, etc) win with these two overpaid humps. Not gonna happen. Rose is the only top tier prospect they have left. If he wants to win he needs to leave this pathetic organization when his contract is up. Losing Gordon 4 nothing was the last straw 4 me. I’ll be scalping most of my season tickets this year.
No direction...No clue
It’s just so frustrating watching this team muddle through. After hiring someone with a Phoenix pedigree (w/o any actual coaching ability, mind you) and drafting a visionary point guard, we were poised to have a phenomenal screen roll/kick out for three’s game that would have made this team very enjoyable and potentially dangerous, assuming (i) BG spotted up and we set him up with good screens and (ii) someone would make sure that Tyrus occasionally set a good screen and rolled to the basket. Now, no one will say that they actually did that last season, but you could see a blueprint for potential success with healthy Deng cutting off the ball and a slasher in Salmons coming off the bench.
Then, the Bulls passed on moving Hinrich for cap space at the deadline, effectively committing to him (as subsequent refusals to trade him this summer makes clear) and leaving BG on the outside looking in. Now, we’ve lost the deadeye shooter that would help keep defenses honest for Rose and have seemingly replaced him with the streaky, ball movement killing Salmons as the starting 2 and Hinrich as the inconsistent shooting swing guard.
What will stop any team from packing the lane on Rose next season and turning the majority of offensive possessions into overdribbling/ball holding by Hinrich and Salmons or the awkward drive by Deng (if he’s healthy)? Why was there no attempt to take a chance on a shooter like Budinger or Ellington in the draft, who for whatever their faults, can actually catch and shoot off of a pass?
The Boozer trade would have left us a little thin at guard, but there wouldn’t be that many minutes there if Rose and Salmons are both at 38-40 a night? He could effectively screen roll and has a nice post up and midrange game. If it didn’t work out, Kirk’s money is off the books and we could make a play for Wade, Joe Johnson or a quality big. Instead, we will barely have enough money to lure one free agent and will likely spend some of our own money resigning Salmons to a deal worth too much given his liabilities.
Thank god we’re going to be more “defensive-oriented” next year, because we will not score anywhere near what we did last year and hopes of landing a scoring star are growing slimmer with every leaked NBA internal memo.
ask Vinny
whoever he is, it sounds like he has great games all the time.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 12, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
To get to real contender status....
Da Bullz have to free up cap space by trading Hinrich and/or Deng…it makes the most sense to acquire a star via trade then to sign 2 next off season…in order to do that, Deng and Hinrich will have to be major minute players in the rotation and emulate their 06-07 seasons…it can be done but it’s a big risk…how about Hinrich to Portland at or b4 the trade deadline for expiring contracts (Blake, Outlaw) and Deng and Tyrus and a top 10 protected first rounder (barring injury and suck, and assuming 30-35 mpg) to Toronto for Bosh (cuz likely, he ain’t stayin’). Then, allowing all the contracts to expire, maybe free up some scratch to sign a DWade or James (big if’s)…then we’d have a serious long term contender…
we probably could do Hinrich for blake and outlaw
right now, I don’t why we wouldn’t do it. After Toronto has been spending all this money, I doubt they just trade away Bosh. They seem really into the idea of bringing him back now. Also, Deng wouldn’t make sense for them anymore considering they have Hedo for less money.
by LoveForTheGame on Jul 12, 2009 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions
This team, as currently constructed...
is about as mediocre as you can get. Even WITH BG, they would’ve been looking at the same playoff position as they had last season. Now with BG gone, the addition of two rooks, and a homeless man’s Gordon (Pargo), they’ll be worse.
The balancing act between a trade and/or shedding salary needed this offseason/early season HAS to be done for so many reasons. If not, we’re screwed.
SUPER OT: Big10 Network is showing Iowa vs Oklahoma from 3/20/87 (BJ vs. Stacey King)!
But with BG...
they could have contended with Boozer, Amare or Bosh. A 4-type who could score.
Now, they have one above average player and you need two or three exceptional talents to compete.
Only an oversized, stupid offer would get any serious free agents to consider the Bulls. They are really nowhere when it comes to competing for a title.
Hell, the unemployment rate in Michigan is projected to reach 20% and the Pistons went out and got some guys. There really isn’t any reason to be optimistic at all! Basically, and I have watched Chicago owners for way more years than I would like to admit, they got lucky on Rose and they’ll bank the money from the promise that one legitimate all-star brings. They’re still trading on Jordan’s accomplishments!!
They have no shame.
It’s about the money…
always a great contribution.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 8:33 AM PST
by hhirb on Jul 12, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Does anyone else see Rose taking the qualifying offer down the road
so he can go to a team that will compete for a title?
they got lucky on Rose and they’ll bank the money from the promise that one legitimate all-star brings.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jul 12, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions
the Bulls are still in a lot better shape than most teams in this league
were still a very young team. The Bulls don’t have terrible contracts(besides Deng imo) and are still in position to get a big star like Wade, Bosh, or Amare. The Bulls already have a star in the making (Rose), young talents (Noah, Thomas, James Johnson, and Deng) and a good mix of veterans (Hinrich, Salmons).
Hope is not lost. The major problem is finding a coach that can actually “coach.” And an owner that is willing to spend.
by LoveForTheGame on Jul 12, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions
It just sucks
If we had a real post scorer, having the 2 PG attack of Kirk and Rose could be perfect….each has enough Combo in their games to change up the looks, and both are better passers than given credit for (I think Babers respect Derrick’s passing, but Kirk’s a craftier passer than given credit for, we’ve just never seen him play with any real near the basket scorers, Kirk had some amazing passes to Brad Miller at the end of the year)….
I just hope Tyrus can figure it all out….
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
Wow, you're underestimating a lot of improvements.
With BG, this year’s team would have been a LOT better than last year’s.
Conservatively estimating:
Hinrich over Thabo for half a season is worth about 1.5 wins. (for the 31 games Hinrich was out)
Brad Miller over Aaron Gray is worth 2 wins. (Brad Miller for the 3.5 months before he came from Sacramento.)
Salmons over Larry Hughes and Andres Nocioni is probably worth 1 win.
The personal improvements of Rose, Thomas and Noah could be VERY conservatively estimated to be worth about 3 wins total between the 3 of them.
Luol Deng… well, if he stayed healthy for 75 games, well, for the 27 games more he’d play, I’d say maybe a .25-.5 wins more over Hughes, Nocioni, Thabo, whatever.
I’d guess VDN, as bad as he is, would at least be a little better than he was. Maybe not. I’m giving .5 win for fun.
That right there is at least 8 wins w/ the only players with a significant chance to decline are Brad Miller and John Salmons.
I don’t see how they could possibly only be the same as least year. 5 of their top 6 minute-getters from last year were under 26. Teams like that almost always improve significantly. They also had a significant injury in Hinrich and brought in two good players to replace four bad players.
Now how many more wins than Pargo and James Johnson is Gordon worth? I don’t know. 3? 4? Depends on who you ask.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I didn't say
that the team wouldn’t be better, I said they would end up with the same playoff position. Plus, I was accounting for most of the East getting way better at the same time.
I’m sorry, I just don’t have a ton of confidence with BG being gone. The only real offset of that is Deng and/or Hinrich getting his 06 form back. Deng being more likely than Kirk in my eyes. WITH BG and the rest of the crew, I can see a 5-8 game improvement. Without, we stink.
so you're saying even with a 5-8 game improvement
we would have the same playoff position as last season. I’m confused. The East has not gotten that much better.
by LoveForTheGame on Jul 12, 2009 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Eh, Cleveland did. Boston and Orlando aren't likely to win less than 50.
Toronto and Washington will probably be playoff teams. 50 wins or more, which I think a BG-Bulls team could approach? I don’t know.
But Miami, Philly, ATL, Detroit, Indiana, NYK, Milwaukee. None of them impressed me much.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I really can't see Washington getting 50 or more
they always turn out to be a dissapointment. Who knows if Arenas can still play. Agreed with the other teams though. Philly is getting worse without Andre Miller and all the other teams are pretty much staying the same.
by LoveForTheGame on Jul 12, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually I forgot that Philly is going to have a whole season of Brand
by LoveForTheGame on Jul 12, 2009 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Which has not shown to be a positive for their team...
Especially without a point guard…though I think they will sign Miller
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
Meh, they've had one tumultuous season with Brand. I'm yet to call it too indicative of anything.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Brand has been injured for nearly two years.
I will wait to see if he can still play…
In general, Elton Brand has not been a key player on winning teams…not quite as bad as Zack Randolph, but similar.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jul 13, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
"key player" =/= "winning team"
You’re good at this" talking out of your" or “just flat-out lying” game.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Gotcha.
You were saying “even WITH Gordon,” so I was talking about if he were back. I don’t see how Miami, Detroit, Philly or ATL got significantly better. Toronto and Washington surely have, but I think it’s as likely that Boston or Orlando take a step back as it is that Washington or Toronto win 50+ games.
But yeah, that’s a hypothetical as it’s Gordon instead of Pargo. That makes a difference.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Here's my east rankings
1. Cleveland
2. Orlando
3. Boston
4. Toronto
5. Atlanta
6. Washington
7. Miami
8. Detroit
I really do not think the Bulls make the playoffs this year.
by LoveForTheGame on Jul 12, 2009 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I think that Detroit doesn't have any front-court players
so they’ll undoubtedly suffer there.
Toronto replaced Marion with Hedo which is a wash imo.
Bulls are def a play-off team with Deng for a full year and Rose/Noah improvements.
by Playboy_Bull on Jul 12, 2009 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Toronto is not suddenly the fourth best team in the East.
Let’s do this tier style. And let’s assume that everyone stays healthy. Of course they won’t, but we don’t know who will get hurt.
Top Tier (55-70 wins)
Cleveland, Boston and Orlando
Middle Tier (40-50 wins)
Atlanta, Washington, Chicago, Miami, Toronto
Bubble Tier (35-40 wins)
Detroit, Sixers, Bobcats, Bucks
Lotto Tier (<35 wins)
Pacers, Knicks, Nets
I believe this season will be like last season where lots of bubble teams still have a chance until late in the year.
I'd be surprised if Cleveland wins the East
Again next year. They essentially have 3 post players, 2 of which can’t play together (Big Z and Shaq) those same two are nipping of Shady Pines Retirement home….
Varejao will have to play 40 minutes a game, which will def not be a good thing.
Lebron will have to play more 4 which may harm his stats, and I think harming Lebron’s stats is a bad thing.
They’ll be a playoff team, but I think they’ll be 3RD.
Here’s my prediction:
1. Orlando (Carter is a big upgrade over Hedo, and I liked Hedo, Lee was a nice 5th starter, but can be easily replaced in their system).
2. Boston. All on KG’s health.
3. Cleveland. Lebron will be better than ever, but the defenses will adj to SVGs play on Mo to limit him, and Shaq and Ilguaskas have the depth issues at the 4 and 5…
4. Toronto. Totally underperformed last year, Marion showed they could be good with him, but now adding Hedo will help.
5. Bulls. I don’t see why we couldn’t be 5. Rose is a pure talent, Tyrus is a freakish athlete. We’ll have to see. We have 2 solid bench guys that would be starters elsewhere (Kirk or Salmons and Brad Miller)….Losing BG hurts a bit, but hopefully Deng helps offset that with a real healthy year, and Kirk being healthy will help not hurt.
6. Charlotte Bobcats. I like LB will get these guys “playing the right way” and they’ll overperform some of their perhaps more talented competition and be the East’s version maybe of the early to mid Grizzlies.
7. Detroit. A lot of scoring to overcome. They’ll finish .500.
8. Miami. Wade’ll will them to the playoffs….will he get along with Beasley? Will they get A.I. and will A.I. steal shots from other teams?
OUt:
Washington—I’ll believe Arenas can play when I see it. If he can be his former self, they’ll make the playoffs easily. I do like the addition of Mike Miller, but is he done or did he just not care, he shouldn’t be done….
Atlanta. Crawford’s a nice guy, but a team killer on O he can be. Hasn’t made the playoffs yet, and I don’t think he’ll help them get back this year…. He’s a pure talent, but a team player he ain’t. Josh Smith and Woodson will continue to fight. The Hawks demolishing by the Cavs really will demorilize them, and have the lesser in talent Heat team pass them up.
This is how I see it today, of course preseason, etc could change my opinion big time.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
Lebron's stats get better at the 4, rather than worse.
He’s not at any kind of strength deficit against PFs, and it puts him position to make more plays in help defense. And offensively it opens up the floor for his drives, and forces teams to go small or take the risk of their PF guarding James on the perimeter.
We'll see
How they do if he plays 25 minutes there.
I know he has the strength and size to compete there, but his passing won’t be as used, and the big big PF’s (KG’s, Duncan’s, the elite PF’s can expose Lebron a bit more).
He will do well against the tweeners or the avg PF’s though.
I still think overall his stats will slide if he’s not more in control of the ball. Still be good, but I don’t think he’s the #1 overall PF in the league, whereas he’s clearly the best SF.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
What?
Why would he handle the ball less at PF? Playing PF doesn’t change his offensive role at all, it just puts another 3-point shooter on the floor.
He'd be more apt
To be more in the post instead of near the key. He’s a sensational passer from the 3pt line.
I don’t think he’ll be bad, but fact is he WON’T be the best PF in the game, he is by a long shot the best SF right now. I don’t see LBJ doing enough against the KG’s, Dirk’s, Duncans, etc’s….
That’s why I don’t see this happening for them this year. Shaq opens up the possibilities more for next year, and in some games it’ll work great perhaps, but I think that move is better in the speculative sense than what it’ll deem in realtiy.
But oh well, I am even very intrigued about seeing if it could work.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
Lebron stats may get better, but his team didn't necessarily play better
Lebron got a lot of chance to play the 4 in the Orlando series. Cleveland didn’t have the complimentary perimeter players to make that work. They still don’t have a good 3 / outside 4 to make their best combination of players Lebron at the 4.
by Basketball Smurf on Jul 13, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't see how Atlanta is a worse team than Charlotte or Miami
Miami only won 2 more games than Chicago, and Dwyane Wade had the best season of his career. Other than Beasley, he doesn’t have another above average teammate. The Bobcats have been pimped as a playoff sleeper for about 4 seasons now, I don’t see it happening.
Also, Washington can still make the playoffs without Arenas playing a full season, they’ve done it before, and Flip Saunders is an underrated coach.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 13, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Atlanta resigned Bibby and got Jamal Crawford to be their combo guard off the bench..I think they could be #4 in the East.
Washington played last season without Haywood and Arenas, and have added Mike Miller and Randy Foye to the mix, add Flip to that, and I think they will battle the Hawks for the 4th seed..
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jul 13, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Atlanta
started off the season well last year and somewhat fizzled to a still 4th seed but they let their guards down.
It seems more and more and more Josh and Woodson aren’t gonna work out.
Jamal Crawford can get really hot in stretches and give them some scoring punch, but he forces the offense so much and they have enough scoring without him that I don’t see that as a major plus.
I don’t think Atlanta will be bad, but I just don’t know if they’ve done enough to withstand the improvement that the Wizards did, the Heat will do (if Beasley improves that’s enough there considering they have perhaps still my pick for best player in the game today in Wade, a guy so good they’ll win plenty games they shouldn’t), I think the Bobcats will keep that continuous growth they saw post the Diaw trade. LBJ’s worked out some of those kinks.
The Bulls are underappreciated on this site as we had some big injury issues last year and had 2 very young players in Tyrus and Rose who showed signs of being very good, I anticipate that happening soon.
Washington CAN make the playoffs without Arenas, but I don’t know if they will. They’ve made it perhaps without him playing a full season, but he played quite a bit of that season very well, and they were a mess last year without him.
I do like Jamison and Bulter though, and hvae been a fan of Mike Miller for a while, but I’m in the wait and see.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
Just my personal opinions though
I think the East has 11 solid teams…and then the 5 eh teams (Pacers, Bucks, Knicks, and Nets).
Whoops I missed the 76ers above, I think they’re a playoff team maybe taking any of the 6-8 out.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
Lebron's on the Bobcats!
We screwed, dude. Lebron and the GOAT on one team!
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Jul 13, 2009 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Heh
Sorry I meant LB (Larry Brown) guess I’m too used to writing LBJ these days…
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
I say it's more like this
1. Cleveland
2. Orlando
3. Boston
4. Atlanta
5. Toronto
6. Chicago
7. Miami
8. Charlotte
Without BG, we still make the playoffs. I think on Washington, someone will always get injured, which is why they don’t make the playoffs. I like Unrealcity’s tier system though.
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Jul 13, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions
right.
Philly didn’t do that much, but they’ll have Brand for a whole season (hopefully).
Miami – they can’t really be any WORSE than last season
Detroit – I actually think they’ve improved. Better coach, BG, CharlieV. The loss of Sheed won’t hurt too much in my eyes.
Those teams won’t be significantly better, but still better. Heck, even Charlotte should be better. They battled for the 8th spot until the last week of the season.
by NormVanBeer on Jul 12, 2009 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions
umm
does anyone here remember how good Rose was last year as a rookie. i wouldnt be surprised if he averaged near 20 ppg with 7-8 apg…
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart
umm
does anyone here remember how bad Rose was defensively? If he avgs 20, he’ll give up 15-20. I definitely hope he improves, but those kinds of improvements take time.
by NormVanBeer on Jul 12, 2009 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions
ok wait
you say you’ve lost all hope cause we lost BG and then you go and criticize rose’s defense? you my friend are crazy
by iamsasquatch on Jul 12, 2009 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions
wow
for all of the criticism that Ben’s defense got, let’s be honest, Rose’s was 10x worse…
by NormVanBeer on Jul 12, 2009 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions
actually I thought BG was starting to play better defense
later in the season and some in the playoffs. He still closed on Ray Allen pretty lethargically at times but I thought his defense had improved some.
Derrick Rose I don’t think has ever been taught how to play defense. My biggest gripe with Rose( and I played PG in high school) was that he never met the ball at half court. He seemed to stick around the top of the arch and wait for the opposing teams point guard to walk up to him. Which then made it easy to set up and run plays.
Derrick is athletic enough he just has to wanna play D. He needs to take it personal when he gets burned. You have to have a certain edge about you on defense you just have to work hard. Like he did on the block against Rondo.
by SoulEater7 on Jul 12, 2009 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
This WSJ article may explain DRose's problems this past year
Link (Matt – sorry for sticking this here instead of as its own post)
A few interesting tidbits:
On Michael Beasley’s early season struggles:
By the middle of the last NBA season, as concerns build about his dwindling playing time and rough transition to the NBA, last year’s No. 2 overall pick, Michael Beasley of the Miami Heat, finally conceded a fundamental flaw: No one, at any level in his basketball career, had asked him to play defense.
Brandon Jenning on his preseason Euro experience:
It was, he says, the most intense two weeks of his basketball life. If he’d never gone to Europe, he says, "I wouldn’t know the pick-and-roll game. I wouldn’t know how to guard, wouldn’t know how to fight through screens. I’m stronger now."
I just dawned on me that VDN is still coaching this team. God help us all.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
I hate AAU ball
Defense in AAU is essentially the other team really screwing up so they do not score against you.
I’m watching Jennings in the Vegas Summer League and his defense is just atrocious. Scott Skiles might have a stroke this season.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jul 13, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions
LOL, like Jennings will even play?
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 13, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Where's Chris Duhon when you need him?
Vinny Del Negro Offensive Gameplan, Part 1
-When there's less than 30 seconds left in the game, that's me with my hands cupped around my mouth yelling.
"BEN! SHOOT! SHOOOOTTTT!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO ME?!?"
-This segues nicely into my Timeout Management classes - order now!
Question.
Why don’t YOU think Detroit got better? I will remind you they signed free agent Ben Gordon.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
"significantly better" were my words.
Gordon over whomever is a lot better. Vallanueva over Wallace is better. I don’t think either are good enough to give a franchise eleven more wins, though . You could totally try to be more confrontational on the Ben Gordon issue, though. That seems to have worked out well for you so far.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Not to mention the loss of McDyess.
He singlehandedly kept their frontcourt respectable at the end of the season with Wallace becoming disinterested (and playing on the perimeter anyway). And while Villanueva will be better than Wallace on offense (at least, more consistent, as Sheed still has the ability to blow up on occassion), he’ll be a step back defensively.
Unless another move is made, I don’t see how Detroit doesn’t go backward this year.
Without BG the team will be better.
I think the team is better through addition by subtraction…the last two seasons they team won 33 and 41 games, I could easily see 45 to 50 wins this season…
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
That's just dumb. Pargo over Gordon makes the team worse. You are wrong.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jul 13, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, on the total wins, I won't claim rightness or wrongness because that'd be dumb on my part.
Saying they’d be better without Gordon is the dumb part.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
He's just ridiculously trolling at this point
I mean, if you read the guy’s own words in the past, he’s now saying the opposite.
by Sports2 on Jul 13, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
ignore.
i’m trying, anyway. If that doesn’t work he can leave, but yeah, he sucks.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 13, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Use your power and ban him!
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Jul 13, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Why not 55 to 60 wins?
Maybe they can win the title now that Gordon is gone.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
Man, think of how good they would be if the got rid of Rose as well !!
Think about it! He’s another guard that took a lot of shots and often dominated the ball instead of creating motion, and he was bad on D just like Gordon! If the Bulls were to drop Gordon and Rose and play TEAM ball (calling captain Kirk!) they can win a championship!!!
\sarcam
by hitlesswonder on Jul 13, 2009 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Losing BG
Probably cost them 4 or those 8 wins, maybe 4.5 of those wins though….
Hopefully Luol’s health can put that to a 2 though….as you have a big range.
I’m optimistic.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
I have this fantasy....
That Deng stays healthy and plays well…well enough to up his trade value… Also Deng is a British citizen and Canadians love that…did I mention Tyrus nickname at LSU was “T-Time…”another British reference….I seriously doubt that Bosh is interested in the mediocre quasi Euro team they’re putting together…Hedo had a few good years playing on the perimeter with Howard down low, my guess is his game tales off the next couple years…Bosh isn’t Howard…
I agree, I just don't see them taking on Deng (or any other team)
even if Hedo tails off (which he will, he’s 30). At this point we will just have to see how competitive Toronto is next season. If they have a disasterous start then I could see them dealing him at the deadline. If there around a 4th or 5th seed (which is very possible) I don’t see them trading him.
by LoveForTheGame on Jul 12, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions
How are the Raptors going to play Jose Calderon off the ball?
Turkoglu is going to want to run the high screen offense with Bosh. Calderon is going to be asked to play off the ball and do something he’s never done in his career. He’ll be asked to catch the ball wide open and then make a dribble penetration move to create something.
I’m still optimistic that Bosh won’t be satisfied with what Colangelo puts around him.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jul 13, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes, they're in excellent financial shape
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
by Big D on Jul 12, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
If there worse problem...
is a 24 year old 2 seasons removed from an 18.7 per, then I think people are complaining a bit too much.
Though the Bull's management...
are a bunch of cheap assholes, yadda yadda yadda.
Don't forget the horrible coach
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
Long time lurker first -time poster.
I see the Bulls heading in a good direction. I expect a 4th or 5th seed. I see Atlanta and Miami slipping (with their rosters they have peaked). After the trade (Salmons/Miller) we won at a 60% clip. That’s without Deng and a rusty Hinrich. That’s pretty damn good. Sure we had some awful games, but we beat the top teams in the league. Denver. Orlando, Boston, and Houston at home. We even smothered James and the Cavs, although that was before the trade (Love the TT block, ate his SOUL!). We were atrocious on the road (most up and coming teams are). BG is gone, we did not move him but his salary is now free to sign FA in the copoing years and to extend Noah and/or TT. And if you don’t think Noah is going to demand 40-50 Mill. think again. 12pts and 12 boards (my projection) will have many teams interested.
Also, Ben was wildly inconsistent, he lead the team in scoring avg. but he lead the team in scoring only 43 times. And that includes a couple of ties. That means his scoring is replaceable. I’ll miss his 10-12 point outbursts, but I won’t miss his 6/19 either. Or his Non-defense playing ass. So he is easily replaceble with Salmons and healthy Kirk/Deng + Drose will score more too.. Add to that a better Rose, a better TT, a better Noah, And a 1st round rookie with lottery talent? I expect winning 50-52 games.
If we do the Boozer trade, 54-56 wins. Boozer is worth Kirk + Tyrus.
Wow, that is really optimistic.
Haven’t you learned is no place for that here?
Seriously, I don’t know how people can assume that all these players are going to be so much better. If anything B miller and Salmons are going to decline. From what you said you are assuming that our best players (rose, salmons, hinrich, deng, t-time, Noah, miller) are going to be healthy all season. That probably isn’t going to happen. If anything you are going to have injuries which in the frontcourt isn’t the end of the world, but in the backcourt that means extended minutes for pargo… or worse shutters.
Also, you BG logic sucks.
Also, Ben was wildly inconsistent, he lead the team in scoring avg. but he lead the team in scoring only 43 times.
You can say ben didn’t lead in all the games because he deferred to Rose or other players getting theirs. That not being selfish, again Miller dosen’t hit those huge playoff threes unless Gordon passes him the ball both times.
I’ll miss his 10-12 point outbursts, but I won’t miss his 6/19 either.
You realize that even the best gaurds have 6-19 nights, but how many can score in bunches? Kurt sure as hell can’t.
Or his Non-defense playing ass.
He wasn’t that bad at defense. There were plenty of nights… like for instance, where B Roy finished with a low point total when BG was on him. The game where wade went off for 40ish? Salmons was on him and got killed.
I know BG isn’t perfect, but you can debate that he is the 5th best SG in the league. Kobe, Wade, Joe Johnson, and Roy are clear and away better and Allen, Carter and Rip are in the discussion (albeit old which is why I take BG). We will miss BG, and more importantly his three point sniping long term.
If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.
by Chi 'Till I Die on Jul 12, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Come on, Ben doesn’t even try on defense. Not once did he get into a proper stance, or fight through screens, or play any sort of team defense. He’d rotate lazily, put his arm up to pretend he was contesting, and turn around and watch the ball go in the hoop.
this will be probably the only time i ever respond to you
the Bulls had the number one fg% defense in 06-07 with Ben Gordon starting. Everything you said, is completely wrong. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.
by Basketball Smurf on Jul 13, 2009 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions
again
How is Boozer not much of an upgrade? his season last year that seems to have convinced everyone he’s terrible would have still been the best player on the Bulls. Add to the fact that he’s only 27 and every year before that since his rookie year he was one of the top players in the league, and it’s likely he’ll regain his form.
Matt, I know you think Hinrich is eminently replaceable, and upgrading from Thomas to Boozer is a solid upgrade, even if you’re just comparing them based on Boozer’s last season. Compare them on their careers and it’s a huge upgrade. So sign someone to replace Hinrich (I know you’re fond of Kevin Ollie) and you’ve got a better team right there.
Then, if Boozer works out and wants to be here, we can turn our sights to a wing scorer next offseason such as Wade or Joe Johnson and then come back to Boozer after we have them signed. It seems much more realistic than getting two free agents to come here and I’d much rather have Boozer and Joe Johnson than just Bosh.
by JSlakov on Jul 12, 2009 4:53 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Yup.
Also I’ll say it: Boozer is a better player than Bosh. Bosh is as soft as tissue. His teams haven’t done diddly with him. Boozer has a better TS%, and a much better rebounder. Bosh plays like a 3 too much. Hence his lower Fg% around 47? vs Boozer, who is close to 54-55% off the top of my head.
When Healthy, Boozer is a better 4, Bosh is more athletic and gets to the line more, (as he just barrels into people with his Alien like elbows and knees, yeah, he did that to the Bulls too many times over the past years, esp when Noc would guard him. Although Noah had great success!!!.)
Boozer is more effective, (he’s got 30 pounds on Bosh).
Bosh is healthier, younger, better defender, and better free throw shooter than Boozer
Bosh is a good mid-range jump shooter, so he is able to spread the offense unlike Boozer, that’s why is field goal percentage is slightly lower. They are both decent rebounders and out of all people it seems that Boozer is the more softer people in the league, which is the reason why he misses so many games. The key is age and reliability for me. Bosh averaged 22 a game last year and he is the player we need.
by LoveForTheGame on Jul 12, 2009 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions
no
what we need is the best team we can put together. I won’t argue that Boozer is better than Bosh (I don’t think he is), but I would argue that it’s more feasible to trade for Boozer now and add someone else next summer than to add two free agents without Bird Rights. I don’t think you’d argue that Bosh and Hinrich is better than Boozer and Joe Johnson, for example.
If we can trade for Boozer that means we don't have to trade Deng
which would make our roster more attractive in 2010.
Homecoming
by illwill on Jul 12, 2009 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Playing full years with Utah, Boozer averaged 21 pts. And more rebounds. So i’m not worried if Bosh can shoot the jumper, when Boozer gets lay-ups.
I can see how you prefer Bosh though. And soft does not refer to injuries, but to playing style. Bosh is a finesse player. I want my 4 to control the paint. Esp. in the last 5 minutes of ball games.
Bosh and Noah fit well together
The rebounds that Bosh doesn’t pick up, we got Noah to get them. Bosh is more of a force in the paint (on defense) as well since he is longer and can actually block shots, unlike Boozer. Bosh fits more in the up-tempo pace that fits well with Rose. Also I’m expecting Noah to develop some post moves, so we won’t have to rely on Bosh to do all the work down low. Basically, Bosh needs to stay healthy, play defense and offense as effiently as possible. He is a couple years younger than Boozer and has a lot of growing to do. There are a lot more questions with Boozer’s attitude and health for me to trust giving him a long term contract. Having a nucleus of Bosh, Rose, Noah, and Deng sounds good to me.
by LoveForTheGame on Jul 12, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions
boozer's jump shot
Where is this reputation coming from. I am no booze expert but from what i remember in games he was quite solid at hitting the 15-18 foot shot at the elbow after pick and roll’s.
by Sambossanova on Jul 12, 2009 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions
yes
but that is what the defense would prefer him to do.
he’s slightly undersized at 4, but plays big regular season or vs. inferior defenses in post season. (sound familiar?) but at the end of a game against a good team, his post up is just about utah’s worst option.
this is a myth i really wish people would get over about today’s nba. unless you’re duncan or garnett, better to work pick ’n roll on the perimeter against a superior defense. boozer himself will choose this option (sensibly).
i’m no expert scout either, having seen him tear up the suns mostly. and having seen the playoffs. i don’t want him at all.
the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS
Bosh and Noah fit well together
The rebounds that Bosh doesn’t pick up, we got Noah to get them. Bosh is more of a force in the paint (on defense) as well since he is longer and can actually block shots, unlike Boozer. Bosh fits more in the up-tempo pace that fits well with Rose. Also I’m expecting Noah to develop some post moves, so we won’t have to rely on Bosh to do all the work down low. Basically, Bosh needs to stay healthy, play defense and offense as effiently as possible. He is a couple years younger than Boozer and has a lot of growing to do. There are a lot more questions with Boozer’s attitude and health for me to trust giving him a long term contract. Having a nucleus of Bosh, Rose, Noah, and Deng sounds good to me.
by LoveForTheGame on Jul 12, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Boozer s a stud!
Always liked Boozer, since his days in college. He was a steal in the draft, because Duke and his stupid coach, “Coach K,” underrated him and never made the fullest use of his talent. Bosh is soft!
Basically, because you replace Hinrich and his 25-30 minutes with Pargo.
Boozer is much better than Thomas, of course, but Hinrich is much better than Pargo. And if Boozer happens to get a significant injury (which you can’t discount with his history), 50 games of Boozer is hardly worth anything more than 82 games of Tyrus Thomas, if any.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
still
its always easier to replace average player than to find very good ones. the trade as rumored didn’t give have the bulls receiving anything but Boozer so that would give them about one and a half million more under the luxury tax to sign a third guard, of which some out there could be close to Kirk.
Also Rose will surely play more minutes, Salmons could play more minutes. Really though, I still can’t get over this team losing Ben and not drafting a guard with the #26.
I can't fathom this team making one trade. Let alone another or signing a free agent.
I admit, I was looking at it in a vacuum.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
stay the course
Eek!
I was watching the 1995 Playoffs VS the Magic's and remembered how much I hated Horace Grant. Horace Grant - i hope you burn in bball hell
I see where Orlando got some sort of trade exception
for Turkoglu. We got zip for BG. Looks like we didn’t even know it was going to happen as we draft two forwards and then scramble for Jannero.
This is not a serious team.
always a great contribution.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 8:33 AM PST
were already preparing for Tyrus to leave next summer (hence the picks), remember it's a "process"
The Bulls got there number 1 priority in Pargo. Therefore, there was no need to draft a guard in the draft.
by LoveForTheGame on Jul 12, 2009 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions
We're preparing to be in the lottery
regularly.
always a great contribution.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 8:33 AM PST
i don't necessarily agree that we need to be a team on the rise to attract free agents
i mean, look at boston a few years ago. they had like 20 wins and paul pierce. then they signed garnett and ray allen and turned into a championship team instantly. rose is like our paul pierce now we just need to make room for two top free agents and it could happen. thats why we should trade kirk and deng instantly if the opportunity for a salary dump arises….
it was actually through trade
that they got Garnett and Allen.
by LoveForTheGame on Jul 12, 2009 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions
well yeah but who did they give up?
other than al jefferson the rest of the people they gave up were trash…. my point is that telling each one of two top free agents hey you’ll be playing with this other superb player and derrick rose should be enough. regardless of our record….
by iamsasquatch on Jul 12, 2009 8:11 PM CDT up reply actions
we dont need one
we just need cap room for two max agents
by iamsasquatch on Jul 12, 2009 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions
agreed
but we really suck at pulling the trigger….
by iamsasquatch on Jul 12, 2009 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Sasquatch versus Yetti - how cool is that!
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jul 12, 2009 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
lol
he is a poser! i mean he didnt even spell ‘yeti’ correctly!
by iamsasquatch on Jul 12, 2009 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions
This isn't a battle unless we get the Loch Ness monster involved!
"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta
by The Red Menace on Jul 12, 2009 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions
We need somebody from tv too!
Cue piccolomair!
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Jul 12, 2009 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Kurt's clutch shot is about as real as the Lochness Monster.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jul 12, 2009 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions
you are overthinking this
They claim to be players in 2010 free agency now that they didn’t pay money to Ben Gordon, but we can’t know that was the actual driving force.
JR has been saying this for years: he will only pay the luxury tax if the team is seriously contending for the title. This team is not. It was no secret that Ben would not be signed since before the 08-09 season started. People who seem to have legitimate connections in the organization have been saying it all season.
The Bulls are in terrible shape. They need several game-changers – great trades, or draft decisions, and something good in free agency. Otherwise, we are looking at being sub-par in the next several years
That's why a high lottery pick is the best result of this season...
The only way the Bulls will increase their talent level to the point where they can contend is to get incredibly lucky in the draft again. They are not going to sign a top ten player as a FA. They are not an attractive destination in comparison to New York, Brooklyn, or Miami and honestly I think they won’t have enough money free under the tax to make even one max offer (they’ll just miss it, but who could’ve expected the cap to drop like that?!?).
by hitlesswonder on Jul 12, 2009 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions
im confused
how is new york an attractive destination? they cant even get grant hill to sign with them…… brooklyn? meh, they’ve got devin harris. rose will be better. miami? take away wade and they have no one…..
by iamsasquatch on Jul 12, 2009 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions
big names will be big in a big market like ny
hill isnt going to be able to take advantage of that. lebron or wade or bosh for instance as a young rising star would be able to take full advantage of the huge market
2010 offseason FA's vs. 2000 offseason FA's...
Isn’t even close to an apples to apples comparison…we were 2 seasons removed from the dynasty and sucking ass in 2000…in 2010 we’ll be coming off a playoff run (my prediction), loaded with young talent adn enough case to offer a superstar FA in a tightening market, with teh allure of a major media market…big big difference.
#1 market + the coach everybody loves playing for
Di Antoni helps people put up big numbers, which translates into big contracts…
well clearly not everyone
not jason kidd and not grant hill
by iamsasquatch on Jul 12, 2009 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions
they turned down going to new york because the knicks orginazation is a fucking mess
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart
by Jbasic89 on Jul 12, 2009 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
sure
The bottom line is that there is only one free agent that immediately makes the Bulls a title contender, and for whatever reason that guy appears more likely to play for the Knicks than the Bulls.
Give NY credit for this: they went after the coach they thought they needed, they got him, and he immediately managed to raise the value of Crawford and Randolph to the point where they could be traded. The Gallinari pick does not look great at the moment, but so far you have to give this regime a passing grade.
That said don’t get me wrong: I am not a happy Bulls fan right now, but I would take that over being a Knicks fan any day…
Was a mess.
Is it still a mess?
I think the Knicks under Walsh have been just about perfect from the perspective of making moves with what they had.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jul 13, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions
i disagree
The best outcome is Bulls having a strong season as a team (and becoming a more attractive destination for free agents), with highly-paid players like Luol Deng and Kirk Hinrich playing well (and becoming tradeable).
The Bulls are not bad enough to rebuild through draft…
completely agree
deng and/or hinrich traded and free agents signed = win
by iamsasquatch on Jul 12, 2009 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Now from me being ever the pessimist
I have overnight become ever the optimist about Luol Deng.
Come on Luol, we need you buddy.
We need to see that Luol we saw for 6 of those 8 games in January, the 6 where he could do absolutely no wrong and looked almost Carmelo like, except with better defense, playing as I recall against some good solid competition too…he made us better.
I don’t fully expect to see that Luol consistently, but having that Luol which is HOW he can play is a real option. We need Deng to be healthy and show all the work he’s allegedly put in…..
If we got that we’ll improve, not because BG’s gone (would have been a tougher team with BG regardless) but because of Salmons and Miller we now have some real depth.
I’m excited again, I guess you can just tell I’m a Bulls fan and been raised a Bulls fan….plus I’m throwing out the months of boneheaded VDN moves and focusing on those few calls he made (the Brad Miller drive, the similar inboundsy type plays and hoping those are the foundations for the VDN we might see)….
I just wish this season would start.
I’m excited to see a healthy Luol…..which I think he has to have some pride (never took Luol for a slacker, perhaps a bit of a ninny, but not a slacker)….
Add in Derrick Rose improvement, John Salmons all year, Kirk Hinirhc health, Tyrus Thomas improvement (come on Tyrus), and Joakim Noah strength (incidentally my coworker swears he saw Noah working out near our office in Deerfield—makes some sense last week I believe (might have been mid week before and that he was a lot stronger than he thought he’d be)…..I hope that’s the case….
Oh I hate these summer months. I really can only stomach bball these days….
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
I don't know why
Luol can’t play like he did 2 years ago….
I don’t know if he’s an all star, but besides the first 2 months last season, I never saw Deng play really poor….he just didn’t always play ridiculously great, rarely was bad.
Last year he seemed to force it often, and then when he might have had his footing, the injuries starting piling up….
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
Deng had trouble adapting to Vinny.
He was coming around, but then he got injured. I think he can still play well, it’s just been an injury problem.
It it nice
to hear some optimism. I agree with most here that BG7 going away is going to hurt the club next season, but I don’t think we’ll be as terrible as some think. Optimistically, we could finish as high as 4, but realistically without BG, I think 6th place in the east isn’t too bad. As you mentioned, the key to the season is Luol. If healthy, we’ll be OK.
he will make so much more if he signs a new contract next year
plus he wants to make sure the team he signs is a contender…..the current heat team isnt
by iamsasquatch on Jul 12, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions
test time
the star players want it both ways, max money and “give me a competitive team” (for a championship).
wade’s worth it. now i’ve gotta search or watch for the $$$ rumored….
the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS
would Arenas deal be a good comp or was that just the worst contract ever given?
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart
2010?
I still think the Bulls can hang around .500 next year (give or take five games), but I really don’t think they will make the playoffs with the current lineup. So come 2010 what “could” the team look like:
PG- Rose / Hinrich
SG- Wade* / (2010 first round pick)
SF-Deng / Salmons (re-signed)
PF- Bosh* / Johnson (Thomas traded for money needs) / Gibson
C Noah / (mid-level exception player)
Now getting both Wade and Bosh are not going to happen, but it is nice to think that it could. I would guess some trades are made and Wade or Bosh will be a Bull when the 2010 season starts. The real question is will the rest of the team fill out around Rose and/or either Wade or Bosh or will the Bulls screw up building a contender again (Curry/Chandler, Brand, Jay Williams (not the Bulls fault), etc).
Here is my 2010 outlook:
PG- Rose/Hinrich/scrub
SG- Raja Bell/Hinrich/scrub
SF- Deng/MLE/scrub
PF- James Johnson/Gibson/scrub
C- Noah/Miller (LLE)/Gray
35 wins, here we come!
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jul 12, 2009 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions
you forgot
the resigning of Pargo. Remember, he is a top priority. Damn look all the salary were saving. Let’s prepare for the 2013 free-agency class and build around James Johnson and Taj. Let’s get rid of Rose to have some cap room.
by LoveForTheGame on Jul 12, 2009 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Think Portland would take Rose for Blake?
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jul 12, 2009 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions
they would do it
and then we would have an expiring contract, who will fill the void of point-guard until we get Rubio in free-agency in a few years.
by LoveForTheGame on Jul 12, 2009 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Favorite Son Kurt would play the point
until his jersey retirement ceremony.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jul 12, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions
then hiring him to become the radio guy...
then hiring him to become Gar’s successor
by LoveForTheGame on Jul 13, 2009 12:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Gar's successor
I think you mean VDN’s succesor!
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Jul 13, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Kirk
vnd calls him “Kurt” … most likely because he’s dumb.
Carlitro knows that, he's just being an asshole.
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Jul 13, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
im pretty sure that team would win 70 games without any trouble
its tough enough to gameplan to stop rose, bosh, or wade individually let alone on a team with deng and noah as well…they’d get around 95 ppg from their starters alone…
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart
I didnt really read much of the comments
but im certain that at some point this definetly turned into a ben gordon vs kirk hinrich argument……anyone wanna confirm?
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
actually no
look at the milsap post though, that’s where all the fun is at
by LoveForTheGame on Jul 12, 2009 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I think there is a plan. Rebuild around Rose. How thats done isn't as clear cut right now.
So it’ll be a balance for the rest of this current offseason (and through the trade deadline) to both position themselves as best they can in 2010 free agency while still remaining relevant as a desireable destination for free agents. It’s not easy, but it’s something they should be looking to do.
I disagree that you have to be a winning team to be a desireable destination. I mean they have the wild card with Derrick Rose. When you have a star, stars will follow. Also I think the city plays into it to a degree. This is a pretty large market so that can be a selling point. They can make endorsement money on the side in bigger markets. Although I hear most goes to their agents so maybe the Bulls and NY have that edge.
But like i said I think Derrick Rose is the major selling point along with dollars. If Derrick can improve from last season
maybe that helps a free agent’s mind set and saying i wanna play with Rose. I hope at least.
they'll
win enough. and with improved defense too (a potential fa would notice). rose, deng and noah are players a star would want to join forces with. maybe tyrus too. (and kirk definitely qualifies, unfortunately perhaps?) all these guys have good, positive apms, yaopau told me so! even at “just” around .500, they’ll be one of the up and coming teams with one of the youngest cores.
older vets will want to sign with a team that’s already won, or is on the doorstep. but an all-star or superstar is looking at teams just like this one. the bulls competition isn’t the top teams is it? do they have cap space? which fa would want to replace lebron in cleveland?
I’m optimistic. i’m digging it, and can’t wait for the season. go tyrus! (don’t trade our starting pf!)
the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS
I just wish I had an idea who the Bulls are targeting in 2010..
Of course it’s still early but I am sure they have a plan. Whether thats Lebron or Wade or Bosh or a combination of both… maybe they don’t even know. maybe they just know they’ll have some money and just hope for one of the 3. And then maybe a lower rank FA.
I won't be totally upset if they signed like a Brendan Haywood and Rudy Gay.
As long as they at least try their asses off for either Lebron/Wade or Bosh/Amare. I don’t know about Gay I think he’s restricted but damn that would be nice. I think you’d have to move Deng.
ive given up hope for us trying to add stars.
i hope rose just turns into a superstar and carries this team on his back for years to come
Joe johnson
would be a great consolation prize actually…..
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Kirk & Tyrus for Boozer WASN'T A GOOD TRADE!
The Bulls were smart not to do the 3 way with Portland stealing Kirk without giving up a young guard. Until Milsap is a permentaly a Blazer, I still think that the best that Utah can do is trade Boozer for Tyrus & Tim Thomas. Then resign Milsap.
Its not over yet; there has been a lot of complaining about not jumping on that trade, but the Bulls powers that be made the right call on this one.
That deal leaves the Jazz in the luxury tax
The Blazers or another team with cap space needs to get involved to facilitate a way for the Jazz to keep Millsap and move Boozer without paying the luxury tax.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jul 13, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions
I thought bulls pull Ty Thom off the table and the deal now was Booz for Kirk and Tim Thom?
by Ibleedbullsred on Jul 13, 2009 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
They pulled TiT off the table.
It’s Boozer for Kurt and TyT.
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Jul 13, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Random thoughts
1. People need to understand that our “goodness” last year was not a result of “up and comingness”, but largely the result of a fairly veteran team playing about to its potential. That is, Kirk, Ben, Salmons, Miller are all veteran players in their prime years (Gordon just entering, Kirk about in the middle, and Salmons and Miller on the downhill path). And their potential is about what we saw. A good first round series, with the potential to sneak into the second round.
While it’s true we need to be good enough to lure a free agent, we need to face the reality that being good on the back’s of Kirk, Miller and Salmons basically gets us nowhere, because we can probably only keep one of those guys and get a free agent. Maybe we can’t keep any of them and get a free agent. Perhaps worse, these guys are so much older than the rest of our players that it’s hard to see how keeping them, and adding another younger vet, is going to create a team that has much of a window of opportunity to win anything.
This is very similar to how I felt when we drafted Tyrus and Thabo, got Wallace and Brown, and then dumped Chandler. In the NBA, probably more than any other sport, you have to have all guys lined up and ready to contribute. That team was built a little bit to “win now” with title hungry vets and a little bit to “win later” with raw as sushi rookies and guys playing for new contracts.
It wasn’t coherent. And that’s not to say that no rookie can contribute, or you should have all youth if you want to win later, but the Bulls were obviously going in a couple different directions.
Now seems pretty similar. You’ve basically got three guys, maybe four if Johnson works out, that will be entering their prime and potentially good players all at once. Rose, Noah, Deng, and Johnson. The latter two have significant questions surrounding them. We’ve got Tyrus, who the team seems to really want to move.
Then, we’ve got a team of much older guys. Kirk, Salmons, Miller. If we continue to pay and play them, we can certainly reach the playoffs. If one of them (or a younger player) gets hurt or otherwise falls apart, we’re probably gonna suck because the next guy off the bench is Pargo.
2. Now here’s the real kicker. As constituted, this team doesn’t have enough cap space to even get one max free agent if the predictions about next year’s salary cap going down are even remotely close to true. Assuming the cap goes down or stays even, what rationale does Salmons have to opt out? Very little that I can see. So if we can’t execute a trade of him or Kirk, we end up without max cap space. But if we do make a trade of them, we have to get something back to keep us from stinking, because if we stink, no FA will come anyway.
Sounds like the perfect solution would be to trade a couple of those guys, say Kirk and Tyrus ($14.5M outgoing) for a young all star with about $12.5M coming back, and then using the balance to pick up another FA guard. Hmm… where could we have done that?
by Sports2 on Jul 13, 2009 8:36 AM CDT reply actions 6 recs
Salmons and his ETO
Wouldn’t he opt out if the trends continue? The league already said they expect BRI to continue to decline so the cap this Summer may be lower, but it’s going to be even lower next Summer. Are there signs that BRI will increase anytime soon?
Salmons will be 30 this December. So presume he exercises his option and takes the 10-11 contract year. He’s then looking at a market where he is 31 years old, going on 32 entering a Summer 2011 where BRI is likely even lower then it is in Summer 2010. He can’t sell himself with more years due to his age, so he’s looking at perhaps more money in each season for a fewer number of years.
I’m cautious on how much player movement there actually will be next Summer. I think all the hype is just that. I’m watching the Roy contract extension negotiations to see how a player’s rights deserving of a max contract are handled by his owners.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jul 13, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions
We have more certainty that 2010 will have falling revenue than 2011
Two things are working against next summer (2010). First, the economy is still fucked, and that means BRI will be falling. Second is the way the NBA does its cap calculations. I’m not sure if you’ve studied up on it, but they trend the seasons based on previous forecasts. Long story short, that means that even though BRI fell by a lot this year, the cap for 09-10 only went down a little bit this year, because the fall was “softened” in their projection methodology by the fact that in the past the cap had gone up by more than expected.
Applying that methodology to the 2010-2011 season, it’s likely that, with two years of falling BRI, there will be a significant drop next year. However, when we get to 2011-2012, it’s hard to know what will happen. If the economy turns around, or if 2010 isn’t as harsh as is now feared, there’s a good chance there will be a rebound, and BRI might go up by more than expected. I mean, it’s all somewhat speculation at this point, but there’s at least some hope, I think, that 2011-2012 will feature a jump, while there’s little hope that 2010-2011 will.
And there’s the new CBA, which throws everything for a loop as well.
I think we're going to have to BULL-ieve in the roster as is
I do think Boozer still gets moved. It just won’t be to us. Our management is going to sit on their hands, high five Steve Schanwald for delivering the operating profits, and wait until Feb 2010 for the rest of the league to get desperate to make a big splash by moving their big talent before the Summer of 2010.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
Does anyone honestly believe that....
Detroit, Miami and Washington have significantly improved enough to keep this Bulls team out of the 8th spot? Detroit lost Dice and Sheed, not to mention Amir. They are basically rebuilding around CV and BG, neither of whom projects as an All-Star…Unless they trade Rip (thereby completely giving up on the 2004 champs) they are back in lottery territory. Washington had all-star talent with Arenas down last year (Butler, Jamison), did they really improve with the addition of Foye and Miller? Miami is one year older,no significant additions, headed for the 8th seed as long as Dwyane stays healthy…
BG's an all star quality player
Has been for some time….he’s not a superstar.
I get your point though, just adding that in. BG’s been criminally underrated BY THE BULLS org
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
Completely wrong. He has never been near an All-star player. He has never been close. Nor has he ever been snubbed or involved in discusionss of snubbery. He’s a fantastic shooter. Everything else is below average. He’s an OK penetraitor and finisher. I think you have him criminally over-rated.
Yeah
That’s why the Pistons just gave him $11M a year, totally not near an all star.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
Yes, the Wiz have improved if healthy. They gave up some backup big's for Foye & Miller.
Foye is Areans insurance. Miller gives them a three point shooter. Something they needed. Haywood is back. Only thing they might be thin at is Center but they got Haywood and young Blatche & Javel M. Plus they got a experiance coach.
Miami is iffy right now considering the game of chicken Riles and Pat are playing. Detroit could go either way depending on if Joe D. adds a big or two. I say bulls are fighting for the 8th spot without boozer. With boozer bulls are fighting for the 6th spot. Toronto is making moves, although there defence is suspect. Atlanta should be about the same as last year with adding Jamal putting them in a battle for the 4th seed. Milwalkee is a bottom dweller(they dumping salary). The Sixers are dependent on them keeping andre miller if they lose him they will suck.
by Ibleedbullsred on Jul 13, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with most things.. maybe not the bulls because their variance is so wide
I believe they could be so bad (with weak offense) and plus a poor VDN defense. Therefore not even close to Miami (even if Miami) is bad. I believe Detroit will just be better, but virtue of their GM is really attempting to improve. Likewise the same could be said about Toronto, but this team has been so iffy. Bulls aren’t really trying to improve, and have no offense or a clutch player and no team defensive concept with Vinny
man up!
I will settle with not being bad.
As long as we’re not under .500 and Derrick Rose is an All-Star, which I think will happen, we will attract some stars. A good point guard is more attractive to a star player than any other position. If we don’t get a first tier talent, we will at least get second or third tier talent.
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