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Trading Derrick Rose


Don't bust your shorts. Hear me out.

Star-divide

The deal would be with the Clippers, like so:

They get: Rose

We get: #1 pick (i.e. Blake Griffin)

Straight up, no foolies.

This is assuming, of course, that Baron Davis wants out of Clipper-land and they trade him. Our lineup would look like this next season: Kirk - Salmons - Luol - Blake - Noah, with Tyrus, Brad, and the #16 and #26 picks (hopefully some guards for depth, say, Terrence Williams and Toney Douglas) coming off the bench. That lineup's assuming we don't resign BG, but if we do, hot dog, put him at the 2. If we don't resign Ben, that lineup's probably good for a six or seven seed next year, and would set us up big for 2010, as we would hopefully sign one of those bombtastic 2-guards (Johnson, Redd, or Wade) to a max-deal, making us real contenders.

A couple of things:

1. This is the ONLY trade I would give up D-Rose for. Not for Lebron, not for Wade, not for Bosh, considering all of their contract situations. MAYBE for Dwight Howard, but the Magic are never giving him up.

2. This has nothing to do with D-Rose's supposed character issues.

3. Look at the last ten teams that have won championships. In no particular order, the starting point guards for those teams:

Derek Fisher

Tony Parker

Chauncey Billups

Jason WIlliams

Rajon Rondo

These guys are good point guards. But they're certainly not CORNERSTONE-type players like D-Rose. At best, they're seasoned leaders. In fact, you have to all the way back to the Magic-era Lakers to find a title-winning team built around a PG.

Championship-winning teams have cool, steady point gaurds. Captain Kirk fits that description to a T.

Championship-winning teams are built around superstar swingmen or superstar big men. Plain and simple. Blake Griffin would be one of those guys. He's big and developed, and already has a post-up game that'll murder people. If he improves steadily over the season, when 2010 comes around, guys are gonna be itching to play next to him for the next six years.

Somebody on another post (Scotter, maybe?) pointed out that a good team rolls with it's star player's off nights. If your star player is having a good night, you win, if he stinks, you lose, if he's kind of middling, the steady guys take up the slack and eke out a win. Having that star player be a point gaurd is a risk, because all the offense goes through that player. Having a steady role player at the 1-spot might be better than having the bulk of your scoring (and thus, the bulk of your off-nights) at that position.

***

So, this is my first post. Throw me to the wolves.

FanPosts are user-created posts from the BlogABull community, and are to be treated as the opinions and views of that particular user, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.

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So you want to trade Rose for Blake Griffin?

No. No. No. No. No.

No.

"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush

by Illini15 on Jun 10, 2009 12:06 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen"
~ Michael Jordan

by ChiBullsFan on Jun 10, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Griffin doesn't seem like a superstar to me

And D Roses teams are to me famous or notable for having guys on each position actually getting better or really being involved. He wants to facilitate and if he improves his defense he could limit penetration which is a big sore.
But a great game for Rose could be 10 7 and 7 to me. Hes a very unique player so I’d rather see what where he and the team are going to go.

And you can still get a big man here since Rose is here I think its appealing to some players. Just gotta be a bit patient I think.

by Camry on Jun 10, 2009 12:20 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You do make a good case about PG’s. I still think the Bulls could get to a title with Rose, though. There are many ways to skin a cat. Just look at the wildly varying makeup of title teams, from star-studded like the 80s Lakers & Celtics, to no star, like the recent Detroit teams. There is no one single route.

Plus there is never a guarantee on how a great college player will transition to the NBA. Woods are full of “can’t miss” college stars who washed out. Rose is already proven, so why trade him for someone who is not?

by boobie trap on Jun 10, 2009 12:48 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You are conveniently forgetting that with the exception of Chauncey Billups....

….each of those PG’s had an absolute STUD on the team with them. A real life, true to form, established SUPERSTAR and in some cases two of them. Blake Griffin may turn out to be the goods. In fact, i think he will. But I think Rose will turn out to be the goods as well.

You don’t even entertain the possibility of trading Rose at this point in his career. And what character issues are you talking about? You and everybody else that’s dogging this kid needs to get off that high horse immediately. He’s a good kid. May have done something bad but that doesn’t change the fact that he’s a good kid. Plus it’s irrelevant in all honestly. This kid was going to be a pro and some SAT score or a Dinstead of a C wasn’t going to change that. The fact that it’s an issue at all is a sham.

Lastly, how would you like to be defined based on the worst thing you did when you were a teenager? I don’t think anyone wants to be pigeonholed based on that.

by lexdiamonds0730 on Jun 10, 2009 1:02 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

If I had more confidence in Griffin's ability, especially on defense

I would think hard about dealing him for Griffin. And right now I just haven’t watched him enough to know how his game will translate to the NBA defensively. The idea mildly intrigues me. Rose obviously has the potential to be the 2nd best point in the league. If I thought Griffin had similar potential I make the trade.

by Scotter on Jun 10, 2009 2:15 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think Rose

Could be the best PG in the league one day

by Camry on Jun 10, 2009 5:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Flagged for not believing in point gods

Three things you must know:
-"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
-Pau Gasol: The defense of a seven foot ladder paired with the post presence of Manute Bol.
-Joakim Noah is better than you.

by Prevenge on Jun 10, 2009 2:16 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

THE FATAL FLAW!

somebody has to go to the clippers. That is a pretty wretched fate. props.

by benster on Jun 11, 2009 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did I hear no? Because...

no.

Jesuse (intentional) Crist (also intentional).

Why don’t we trade him for a bag of steering wheels and a hot baloney sandwich while we’re at it? Maybe to the Kings for Nocioni and Ham on Rye?

"..what you mean? I'm a legend like Kareem!"

by CommittedToExcellence on Jun 10, 2009 5:56 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

If Griffin was a force on the level of Howard,

sure. But he’s not.

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on Jun 10, 2009 7:21 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

iverson

in his prime led Philly to an East title… and I think Rose will be better than Iverson because he is not going to look to be the main scoring threat…. Billups is a stud, and under rated… What about the Stockton teams back in the day? Without Jordan the Jazz would have won….

No Offense… but i don’t think you’ve thought this through enough. We have a top 5 point guard on our roster. (potentially the best in the league!) You don’t just give that up!

by 72-10 on Jun 10, 2009 7:32 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You wouldn't trade Rose for LeBron?

Hmm. I would.

Griffin is meh. If he came out last year, he’s at best the #3 pick, and it doesn’t make sense to trade down when Rose had such a good year.

The “teams cant win with a great point guard” argument is odd. Tony Parker is a future hall of famer, and Billups and Rondo are still in the discussion. The fact is, you need multiple great players to win a title. Does Jordan win titles without Pippen? Does Shaq without Kobe and Wade? Does Duncan without Ginobili and Parker?

Rose is on the fast track to being one of those great players. Maybe he’s not a Jordan/Shaq/Duncan, but he can be Tony Parker, maybe slightly better. Surround him with a couple studs (Joakim’s on track to be one) and a deep rotation, and we can compete like the 2004 Pistons or the 2009 Magic.

by YaoPau on Jun 10, 2009 8:23 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

He mentioned contract situations

…so we can only assume that his proposed trade would factor in LeBron leaving after 2010, in which case I also would not make that Rose/LeBron trade. Now, if we could make that trade and get LeBron to sign an extension, then his analysis would obviously be different.

Blake Griffin is a good player but he is no better of a prospect than Beasley was at this time last year. PFs and Cs who put up huge numbers in depleted college ranks are a risk (see Oden, Beasley, etc.) I’d take Rose.

by nateroth on Jun 10, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

so let's assume that Griffin will not resign after his rookie deal is up as well

Let’s assume

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Jun 10, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, You wouldn't trade Rose 4 Lebron, a 23 year old future HoF?????

Well, I’m guessing 99% of NBA executives wouldn"t trade Lebron 4 Rose either. I don’t think most would trade Rookie of Year Rose 4 unproven Blake Griffin either. Unless of course the Bulls had a young top ten PG to take his spot. Bulls are rebuilding. Hinrick will be 29 soon. He needs to win now. He probably has 1 or 2 good years left.

by sadafan on Jun 10, 2009 8:24 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

um, no.

you’d trade him for blake griffin, and not lebron?

please. i believe it’s already been said just about everyone would have taken rose over griffin if he had been in last year’s draft.

"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"

by Jaina on Jun 10, 2009 8:38 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

no more sending our rookie of the years to the Clips

Ben Gordon: Where Cojones Happen. - Gene Wojciechowski

by chibullsfan03 on Jun 10, 2009 9:17 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

For draft picks, too.

This deal is pretty similar.

Three things you must know:
-"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
-Pau Gasol: The defense of a seven foot ladder paired with the post presence of Manute Bol.
-Joakim Noah is better than you.

by Prevenge on Jun 10, 2009 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather

Trade Derrick for Wade…..and a sign and trade of BG and our 2 first round picks this year….I mean for the Heat it’s better than Losing Wade for nothing….and well is a good trade in terms of talent/upside to boot.

Rose will be a better player than Griffin, I can feel it. Rose might be as good as Wade, but with Kirk in tow, we can manage. Let BG walk, and use the expiring Miller-James-Thomas next year or at the deadline to make a Bosh or Stat trade….

Bulls next year
Kirk
Wade
Deng
Thomas
Noah

with Miller, Salmons, Tim Thomas and a MLE signing…. we would be set and have room to get another big FA in the followign year…..

Tyger1147 is a douche bag

by majoyenrac on Jun 10, 2009 9:17 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

But Wade's a free agent in 2010!

Why would you trade a guy of Rose’s caliber for a guy who could walk in a year?

by benster on Jun 11, 2009 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because with a solid team around him

his hometown and the core we have and $$ to spend to make the Bulls even better, he ain’t likely to bolt….

And I’d presume that there would be some talks with the agent of course of a resigning, or perhaps we could start negotiations post trade if done this summer (not sure when they can open that up, but if we have the rights, I would be surprised if in July we couldn’t talk extending Wade off the bat)….

There are few that I’d trade Rose for, but D. Wade is definitely one of them.

Tyger1147 is a douche bag

by majoyenrac on Jun 12, 2009 7:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok tell me this...

When has a Power Foward been the focal point of a Championship team? Barkley, Malone, Kemp even. None of these guys won anything. Tim Dunan and Garnett are the only two and you can make a strong argument about Duncan being more of a center and Garnett having two other stars like Pierce and Allen.

Ok so you trade Rose and now you have a guy in Hinrich that really is a combo guard, a 30 yr old starting 2 guard who’s only had one good year in the league, and a over paid injury prone small foward? Congrats, you just made Joakim Noah the most reliable player on next years team.

by Dils on Jun 10, 2009 9:24 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I was lumping dominant big men into one category

Duncan, Shaq, Garnett, etc. I think Blake can be up there

by benster on Jun 11, 2009 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Question.

Are you that starved for Bulls news that you are suffering from withdrawl symptoms, causing you to have delusions?

Or

Are you that starved for attention that you decided to post something utterly ridiculous in an attempt to cause a stir and create controversy?

"Rest satisified with doing well and leave others to talk of you as they please"

by Bigred15 on Jun 10, 2009 10:54 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Answer

My father didn’t go to my T-ball games as a kid, so now I post things on BaB to get attention. LOOK AT ME NOW, POPS!! I’M A STAR!

by benster on Jun 11, 2009 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

damn

good point. But Kirk’s a leader that guys will rally around. For me, the iconic image of the Celtics series was Kirk almost about to fight Rondo and doing that “what now, punk?” dance with him. So his offensive game isn’t as good as Rose’s – I’m willing to sacrifice it as long as he’s still a leader that guys can rally around.

by benster on Jun 11, 2009 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And then they lost?

great leader right there.

by tuluse on Jun 13, 2009 5:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

kirk is not a leader guys rally around

that is a ridiculous statement. He has been here, what 5 years? I can’t think of one time guys “rallied around him.”

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 13, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let me get this straight...

You want to trade DRose for an unproven player? This is the farthest thing from a legitamate trade idea I have ever seen! You have a potential franchise player who played a fantastic rookie season at 20, for a guy that may never average double digit points in his career? I like Griffin a ton, but he is not worth Rose until he has done something in the NBA.

Joe Smith averaged 20 and 10 for 2 seasons at Maryland. Would you trade DRose for a Joe Smith? I hope not.

by DRose01 on Jun 10, 2009 1:24 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Not as bad as

everyone is making it out to be. Its a nice fantasy thought, but Rose is a proven commodity. Rose is playing in his hometown, a lot of marketing surrounds Rose, and to do this deal the pressure on Griffin coming in as also the #1 would be just plain ludicrous. Overall not a bad thought, but not realistic- nor does is have a snowball’s chance in hell of happening.

by Chisportfan on Jun 10, 2009 1:39 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I opened this thread expecting to read.

Trade Rose for Oden…Bulls need help inside and Blazers need help at PG…Both #1 overall picks.

In any case, no one is trading Derrick Rose right now…its just a bad idea.

" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem

is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger

by Dionysus2.0 on Jun 10, 2009 1:41 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

This is terrible on so many different levels I don't even know where to begin.

For Griffin?!?! Really?!?! What the fuck has he accomplished? He isn’t even as good as Beasley was last year. He couldn’t even cut it in the tourney and got upset by Syracuse.

Bad idea all around. Deserves a spot on www.failblog.com

If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.

by Chi 'Till I Die on Jun 10, 2009 2:22 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

fail...

48 minutes of intensity...RIP NVL.

by Lt.Dan on Jun 11, 2009 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and by failblog.com

I mean failblog.org

If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.

by Chi 'Till I Die on Jun 10, 2009 2:25 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

krumbs, dat u?

i actually expected something different from someone named benster. like re-sign him, start him at the two, make him starting pg, lol! and am really surprised anyone responded to this at all… the posts keep keepin’ on, so here i go too:

still, he asked

Don’t bust your shorts.
and
Throw me to the wolves.
so, welcome to blogabull benster!

"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!

by marionette on Jun 10, 2009 3:43 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

those quotes are a pretty fast way to make sure I won't read the fanpost*

lesson: worry less about you and more about what you write.

(*another one being ‘trade derrick rose’)

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 10, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that said

I’ll also welcome benster to BaB :)

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 10, 2009 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

why thank you

and we don’t allow self-deprecation here? blasphemy!

by benster on Jun 11, 2009 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

O YEA

THE POTENTIAL SUPERSTAR WE’VE BEEN WAITIN FOR SINCE U KNOW WHO RETIRED….AND U WANNA TRADE HIM AWAY….DUMBASS

by fresh2def on Jun 10, 2009 9:14 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

He's talking about Tyrus Thomas, right?

Three things you must know:
-"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
-Pau Gasol: The defense of a seven foot ladder paired with the post presence of Manute Bol.
-Joakim Noah is better than you.

by Prevenge on Jun 11, 2009 2:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no

Bulls Keep Rose this year and beyond. Worst Case scenario in the 4th qtr a real NBA coach would play Kirk @ pg(it just saves energy for your star(rose) he also is great @ defending point guards or in general in games, Rose play @ sg and not in a ray allen way but a in a wade like way, Deng plays @ sf yea we still have him(that’s assuming tyrus never learns how to dribble in the NBA, as a sf his athleticism, in combination playing level headed(which comes from experience and coaching only), would make a true star and if tt(TT is Tim Thomas) continues to show tenacity and understanding of the NBA game, (Big if) If we sign Bosh/Amare/Odom/ or Tyrus develops @ pf, we would only need continued development from Noah @ c.

We could also;
sign or sign and trade bg.
sign or sign and trade Odom.
sign or sign and trade Kaman.
sign some more back up big men to provide Noah with relief few years(Big men need it).
trade picks to move up for Jordan Hill(maybe Thabeet if he slips) Hill fits our O & D.
darft the best perimeter defender possible with 26 or 25(whatever pick it is), after drafting the most valuable post player with the 16.

There’s now way we sign Artest. OK seriously though bull fans If we sign star in 2010 wouldn’t you love Rose, Bosh, Artest, Noah, and whomever in the EAST! and say we keep tyrus off the bench we would easily have a top five defense really the best depending on the other role players and the coach.

by BullFan on Jun 11, 2009 2:17 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

D Will>CP3

Deron at this point is slightly better than Paul for the following reasons:better defender and better shooter.

Paul is faster and a slightly better passer. Deron has much better size.

Deron’s size, D and ability to shoot will allow him to play more effectively for longer…once Paul gets older and loses some speed, his game will suffer quite a bit.

Look at how Billups is over 30 yet still very effective. Jitterbug PGs tend to lose a lot once they age.

by C Smoove on Jun 11, 2009 2:17 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Like Isaiah Thomas?

Being taller is not a good argument. Nor is saying Deron is slightly better now with no evidence to back it up. There is no evidence to suggest that Deron will decline at a slower rate than Paul.

So Billups is good and so is Nash so was Thomas so was Kevin Johnson so was Tim Hardaway. See I can cherry pick names of guys who had games similar to styles to Paul too.

"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ

by Rankdog on Jun 14, 2009 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Paul is better than Deron.

Seriously, I don’t see how it’s close.

Three things you must know:
-"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
-Pau Gasol: The defense of a seven foot ladder paired with the post presence of Manute Bol.
-Joakim Noah is better than you.

by Prevenge on Jun 14, 2009 1:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's a lot of weirdness going on in this thread

But the biggest issue to me is that when you start talking about swapping guys this good, there has to be some kind of compelling rationale from both sides.

And I can’t really see that with any team.

by Sports2 on Jun 11, 2009 11:24 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

no

as simple as that, no.

by jeah23 on Jun 12, 2009 1:00 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

FU

"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ

by Rankdog on Jun 14, 2009 12:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So after the trade you are looking at this roster

PG: Kirk Hinrich – Lindsey Hunter (or other minimum salary vet)
SG: Ben Gordon (maybe) – Anthony Roberson (unguaranteed)
SF: Luol Deng – John Salmons (or starter on SG if Gordon bails) – Linton Johnson (unguaranteed)
PF: Blake Griffin – Tyrus Thomas – Tim Thomas
C: Joakim Noah – Brad Miller – Aaron Gray – The Ghost of Jerome James

Coach: Vinny Del Negro

Sounds like a plan. Well, the guard glut should really be solved after this deal.

by Norsktroll on Jun 14, 2009 12:27 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

After Lindsay Hunter dies from playing too much we can use Roberson as our backup PG!

Success!
It works in NBA 2k9! :D

Three things you must know:
-"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
-Pau Gasol: The defense of a seven foot ladder paired with the post presence of Manute Bol.
-Joakim Noah is better than you.

by Prevenge on Jun 14, 2009 1:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

trade him for Scola, he is better than Griffin

by djsmadrid on Jun 22, 2009 8:09 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Rose for Griffin?

Im not gonna lie, if we resigned BG and kept Kirk, that would be a very tempting deal.

by BigP50 on Jun 22, 2009 9:32 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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