Possible Trade with Minnesota
by SamTheBull on Jun 4, 2009 5:14 PM CDT
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PrintBulls receive the #6 overall pick, Mike Miller, and Craig Smith (and some contracts expiring in 2010 to balance the salaries) in exchange the Timberwolves receive John Salmons, Kirk Hinrich, and the #16 pick.
Why would they do it?
Minnesota:
They might just have the best young front-court in the NBA, but they need a veteran true point to get them the ball. They don't have a true SF on their roster, let alone one who can both score and defend. Their two best trade chips are Smith and the #6 pick, and landing Hinrich and Salmons to fill their holes is great value. They stil have three first rounders to try to add depth to what would be a pretty impressive starting group. They would suffer some cap inflexibility, but they should still be able to resign/extend Love and Foye.
Chicago:
Hinrich and Salmons are good players, but not as good as Rose and Deng. Forfeiting them for cap space and a high draft pick makes a ton of sense. Adding a lottery-pick guard to the back-court would pay off down the line, whether Gordon returns or not. Even more importantly, the deal would add $16.5M in expiring contracts, bringing next summers' total up to a healthy $35.9M (roughly half the entire cap). This would give the team flexibility moving forward to aquire another star player via trade or free agency. And oh by the way, Craig Smith is really good (and Miller can still play).
What do you guys think? (Potential line-ups and Trade Machine link after the jump).
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=q5a6dg
Potential line-ups:
Us:
C Noah
PF Thomas
SF Deng
SG Mike Miller
PG Some dude who may or may not have cheated on the SATs
Bench: Brad Miller, Craig Smith, #6 pick, #26 pick, Telfair
Minny:
C Big Al
PF Big Love
SF Salmons
SG Foye
PG Kirk
Bench: Brewer, Gomez, #'s 16,18, & 28.
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Love this idea. I'm all for selling high on Salmons and getting that pick for Hinrich is high on my list of wants
from the Bulls FO this summer. Add to that the huge cap savings, and I’m all for it.
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton
by fundamentallysound on Jun 4, 2009 6:02 PM CDT reply actions
Like it, maybe love it
i’m not sure that Craig Smith is “really good,” but he is a good rebounder and a wide body. He has potential to be good offensively as well, i’m just not sure he’s got it together mentally. Then again, neither does Tyrus. They’ll be good buddies.
The effectiveness of this trade really depends on who’s available with the 6th pick. If it’s Harden or DeRozen, then yes, this is a great trade for us. I’m assuming this trade is under the assumption we’re not re-signing BG, which is ok, again, as long as we get Harden or DeRozen. I would prefer Harden because he’s much closer to being a finished product. I like Mike Miller in our offense, he should be good for a decent amount of spot-up 3s after a D-Rose drive. Telfair is a serviceable backup PG.
Overall, if this brings us D-Wade, Bosh, Bron-Bron, Amare or Carmelo in FA next summer then it’s a great deal. If we swing and miss again get ready for VDNs version of the Tim Floyd era.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Jun 4, 2009 6:20 PM CDT reply actions
Mike Miller
& Sebastian Telfair? Seriously?
by Cannoli on Jun 4, 2009 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
They are what he said they are,
that is … someone who can shoot threes, and a serviceable backup PG.
Three things you must know:
-"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
-Pau Gasol: The defense of a seven foot ladder paired with the post presence of Manute Bol.
-Joakim Noah is better than you.
As a huge salmons fan...
I absolutely love the trade. Nothing against kirk as a player but we need to get out from under his contract due to our pg situation. I agree about selling high on salmons especially if it brings back a proven SHOOTER like miller. The #6 pick is still going to bring us back a talented player even in a “weak” draft. #6 we draft harden or DeRozen and then I say Toney Douglas at #26 and we have our backcourt solidified for the future and with Mike Miller playing some back up 3 for Deng. Of course, just like any plan a lot of it hinges on the development of tyrus and noah (and now smith). I’m excited just thinking about this team
not bad
but i never wanna see telfair in a bulls uniform…
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
This is a trade that makes sense.
Jefferson and Love are such studs on the boards that they could live with Salmons at the SF. And Salmons would give them something they lack on their roster. Hinrich is a great candidate to co-exist in the backcourt with Foye. It might be enough to entice them. And I really like the Bulls side. Something structured like this would be good.
I like the way you think, sir
And count me a fellow member of the Craig Smith fan club. I think the Wolves do quite well.
but, this trade works better in July when the Wolves are under the cap. Then you don’t have to have the Wolves throw in Madsen and Telfair (who has a player option in 2010, so he’s not technically an expiring deal).
Obviously it’s tricky considering the deal involves swapping picks. But it is possible.
With the proposed deal on draft night there’s no ’09 cap savings to sign Ben Gordon. So might as well throw in Ben Gordon as an outgoing part of this trade. Mike Miller played last year like he wants to retire, and his deal is up after the season.
So this is basically a way to tank next season to get under the cap, with another top-10 pick (and maybe another lottery pick in next years draft if they don’t make the playoffs).
I’m greedy. I only want #6 if it can be thrown into a big trade. I want Gordon to stay. If it were only possible to have Toronto absorb the money in a Bosh deal so the trade could be done on draft night. But the Bulls would have more expiring money and prospects to play with for the rest of the summer, to work on a Bosh or Amare deal, clear some salary for BG (I guess not as essential if Amare/Bosh are coming), etc.
Maybe forget the picks entirely and wait until July? Is #6 that much more valuable (in a trade) than #16 in this draft?
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 4, 2009 10:15 PM CDT reply actions
If you want a SG, I think it's huge.
Harden is clearly the best “true” SG-meaning, he’s not a combo and there’s no question if that’s what he’ll end up playing-but guys like Evans and Derozan have pretty good potential there, too. Add in a Gerald Henderson that will almost definitely be gone by 16, and there isn’t much left for “good starter” potential.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I think this deal...
…gets done without the inclusion of the picks. I think there’s a way to do it with Miller and Hinrich being the key (if only) components of a deal. Unless there is another team or there is more talent added to the deal, there is no way the Wolves pass up picking the best non-Rubio point in a point-heavy draft for Hinrich and Salmons when they could just keep Miller and roll with the young guy at point. They are not in win-now mode and they can take their time (2-3 years) with a young point. The league wide consensus was that Miller had a bad year but he’s still a very functional player with an expiring contract in a year where that sort of thing is worth a lot by itself.
That being said, Hinrich would be a perfect back court mate to a guy like Steph Curry or James Harden and I think the Wolves will continue to pursue him. #6 is valuable to the Wolves if it’s one of those two guys. Here’s a post we just ran that included a trade with Chicago:
http://www.canishoopus.com/2009/6/5/898273/building-a-winner-update-pt-iv
Miller for Hinrich straight up or with the inclusion of the rights to Nikola Pekovic or the 18th pick. At the end of the day, I think Miller for Hinrich straight up works for everyone involved more than any other deal. I just don’t think the Wolves part with the 6th pick and Miller for Hinrich and Salmons. They could have one of the following: Curry, Harden, Evans, Holiday, Jennings, or Flynn + Miller just by standing pat. They would still have Miller’s expiring deal for 2010 (where they have tons of cap space) as well as a cheap rookie-scale contract at the point. Miller for Hinrich just extends a $9 mil/year salary a few years down the road and moves it from the 2/3 (Miller) to the 1/2 (Hinrich). It’s not a sexy deal but I think it works for everyone involved. Y’all get a shooter with an expiring deal (who could likely be moved at the deadline) and the Wolves get a functional back court player that could play alongside of the new point while allowing Foye to go to the bench.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
i think we can better
than miller for kirk…plus miller’s hair pisses me off, not a good look for Vinny’s aura
Derrick Rose once pissed in a soda can …we now call that Red Bull.
I would love, love, love if the T-Wolves threw Nikola Pekovic in. That dude is going to be a beast. If the Bulls brought Pekovic
and Asik over from Europe, their frontcourt problems would be a long way towards being solved. According to Hollinger’s European player translation system, Pekovic should put up around a 19 PER in his first year in the league, Asik about a 16 PER (with very good shotblocking D from what I’ve read about him).
Pekovic and Asik should probably have been lotto picks in last year’s loaded draft if not for the screwed up rookie pay-scale.
Needless to say, I’d be thrilled if the T-Wolves included Pekovic in a Hinrich deal and I’d even say that it’d be a better inclusion than the 6th pick in the draft.
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton
by fundamentallysound on Jun 5, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
just as I say this, I go to DX and read this about Pekovic
Even though he would normally garner a considerable amount of interest in the first round with the incredible season he’s had, the inevitably of him staying in Europe for a considerable amount of time, along with the verbal discouragement he’s given teams from drafting him (saying that he just does not like the NBA) will almost certainly drop him to the 2nd round.
So yeah, scratch all that excitement I had about bringing him over.
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton
by fundamentallysound on Jun 5, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
There have been conflicting statements from the guy about wanting to come over...
….the latest being that he will come in 2010 after being bought out. That being said, the guy is a tank.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
Yes, he is indeed a tank. That's why I'd be thrilled to get his rights - provided he doesn't pull a Tiago Splitter and never
come over.
I’d really like Asik to come over next year, but I think he’s overseas for at least next year and maybe the year after that, too.
For some video of Pekovic beasting Olympiacos, check here (bonus: Josh Childress ’fro sighting).
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton
by fundamentallysound on Jun 5, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
woops, wrong link
here is the Pekovic video.
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton
by fundamentallysound on Jun 5, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions
keep in mind he'd have to fly to Phoenix and meet the Chairman
before discussions even begin. Or after they had begun and were leaked to the media, whatever.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 5, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Speaking of Asik, there was a mini-update
on RealGM. Seems he’s tearing it up in limited minutes – he hasn’t gotten all that many since the injury, but he’s looked terrific.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
19 mpg, 10 ppg, 5 rpg, and 1.4 bpg
if my memory serves me. His team is in the finals of their league.
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton
by fundamentallysound on Jun 5, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions
When might he be able to head to the NBA
Is he still under contract for 2 more years after this one?
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
There's a countdown provided by a RealGM poster to when Asik can join the Bulls:
check it out here.
So, it looks like about 512 days until he can come to the NBA. Which is in about a year and a half. I’d guess that means he could be on the Bulls’ roster for the start of the 2010-11 season, which would be bidness.
He compares to Andris Biedrins in terms of style of play and build. Soft touch around the hoop, not much of a shooter, built like Noah (DX lists him at 6’11" 230), and a big time rebounder and shot blocker. He’s a late bloomer who only started playing basketball a few years ago, but dominated the Euro League for a year before his injury, despite not really being able to shoot a midrange J.
I don’t know if you can play Noah and Asik on the floor at the same time for very many minutes, but it would be awesome to be able to bring a guy off the bench that can do all the same things that Noah does when he’s not out there. At worst, he’s another asset to keep in the Bulls back pocket for trades, etc. I’m pretty high on the guy though.
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton
by fundamentallysound on Jun 5, 2009 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions
"Built like Noah"
Asik is certainly skinny, but he seems like he has pretty broad shoulders and could maybe hit a higher playing weight than Noah in their respective primes. Kid’s only 22. (I am irrationally excited about Asik becoming a Bull.)
I think it's only one more year.
When we drafted him he had two years left on his contract. One down, one to go. We’ll be able to bring him over in 2010.
That's what I've heard-
he’ll be here in 2010, coinciding with the expiration of Miller’s contract.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jun 7, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions
I would rather keep Hinrich than trade him for Miller.
Three things you must know:
-"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
-Pau Gasol: The defense of a seven foot ladder paired with the post presence of Manute Bol.
-Joakim Noah is better than you.
Its a BIG IF
As a fan of Salmons and Hinrich I understand we are payin alot for Kirk to be a guy off the bench, and that Salmons may have had a peak season this year, but …….. maybe. I dont like the players we would get back from Min and I dont think they would be any help to us next year or ever past holdovers. (jersey filler) So on the 6 pick or the 16, either way obviously we have not much of a choice, but to get a SG. No I dont like BG, I dont want him, hate his D, dont want to pay him more than #1 guy off the bench super 6th man. I just think that BG at his best is a great piece off the bench, but a horrid starter. Also his minutes need to be near 18-20, why? cuz he will still get his 20 or so points, but his atrocious D will only be exposed for far less than starting and gettin 30+ mins in a game, where his points are the same, but we get ripped on D.
In essence I know (or just feel) that Amare aint coming here no way, Lebron… lol forgettaboutit !!!!, Bosh I have watched more this year to see what the hub-hub is and I just came away completely unimpressed. (i know crazy, but not enough D, not enough boards, just overall not enough) So it leaves Wade and Melo….. I give us more a shot at Wade hometown and all, and Melo would be great, but I think its just a long shot.
Lastly it just seems like we would be giving up alot for just a pipe dream shot. I think we could do more and still have enough cap room come next summer to take a shot at Wade or Melo, or maybe both if we pull a trade next summer b/c we get some info somewhere that we would have a surreal shot at both. Realistically keeping our on on the ball and adding to an obviously talented team while giving ourselves a shot at one of the “Diamonds of 2010 FA” seems like the Bulls franchise best strategy for now and in the future.
I disagree
On the Salmons not as good as Deng…..he’s just older than Deng.
But I’m for it cuz I don’t think given Deng’s current “low” value we’re going to be able to deal him, and Mike Miller (not last year’s version, but the past) is extremely underrated adn would be a great to have 6th man….he’s a tough cover, has the height and shooting, and well is a better shooter and leader than Salmons, though with weak defense…. Yet he oddly played disinterested last year and I hope that’s a fluke.
I’d hope we can get Derozan (sp) with that #6 pick….
Either way we need to make a trade, and I think this allows us to keep BG and get a solid contributor or might be starter if Deng’s hurt again…..we’ll still have a solid team, and I believe Miller expires too (could be wrong) but if not that’s great as he’s in the $9M range I believe, and we could possibly resign him for a few more years at less $$.
All this presumes Mike Miller returns to his pre last year form at least to a degree. He’s only what 30? He should be able to….
Rose will need shooters, and Miller’s not far off Ben GOrdon in that department. Having BG and Miller would be nice.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
I stand corrected on the keep BG talk (read Matt's comments above)...
Oh well, that might change my mind a bit….hmmm.
Now I’m not sure. I think Deng has to be involved….Gordon > Luol is and has been….Luol has shown promises of being better than BG at some point, but now is 2 years mostly injured removed from that and BG’s got a skill that well just allows us to stay in or win games….with his scoring..
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
Or if we didn't have BG
we’d be up one with the ball.
We can't
Have the other team score negative points.
I’m sorry but Gordon often is our offense.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
Just FYI, Hinrich isn't a "true" PG. He's smack in the middle of the true/scoring PG spectrum, IIRC.
Also, $35 million would be roughly half of the luxury tax that will be around $70 million. However, they would still be waaaay under the cap.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Brian Cardinal
Instead of Mark Madsen and Sebastian Telfair as the throw-ins, the T-Wolves could add Brian Cardinal to the trade scenario. It might sweeten the deal for Minnesota “in this economy”.
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