Noah already back in the gym (at IMG)
Argie Grigorakos in Toronto, Ontario, Canada:
Hey Coach, If you had Joakim Noah to help this summer, in what areas would you coach him in? Also what mechanical exercises would you use to help his jumpshot improve.
Mike Moreau:
Joakim is already in our gym. He arrived yesterday and put in a full day's work on his post game and shooting form. He is an inspiration to all of our young aspiring pros after just one day! Stay tuned!
5 months ago
NormVanBeer
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What does a full day of work on his shooting form include?
Repeating the same “flick” shot that ensures he has no chance of even obtaining a reliable mid-range shot, OR changing his form altogether (fingers-crossed)?
by smash! on Jun 3, 2009 9:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Too me I don't care if he keeps the same form
If he can consistently knock down the shot, that’s all that matters.
Plus it’s probably too late for him to change something like that. He’s shot like that for who knows how long. It’s hard to change habits like that.
by Edicus2288i on Jun 3, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hell ya
like big baby’s lil shot that damn near nasty now
Derrick Rose once pissed in a soda can …we now call that Red Bull.
by Belize on Jun 3, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, Big Baby's shot is flat, not malformed like Noah's.
He’s got some rotation that goes the right way at least. I don’t recall any other current player with side rotation like Noahs. What that means is that if he doesn’t throw it directly in the basket, if it hits the rim or rolls on the rim or backboard, it’s much less likely to go in. It’s because he shoots with 2 hands and uses his left hand’s thumb to flick it. Most people do that when they’re 8-9 yrs old and not strong enough or tall enough to shoot to the hoop. He should be strong enough by now.
Sorry to rant, but I just don’t get how he went to UF for so many years and Donovan never bothered to teach him how to shoot properly. But he’s still young, and it’s not like he has ANY outside shot now, so why not try!?
by smash! on Jun 3, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
two words
shawn marion. his shot is lil bit consistent, no?
Derrick Rose once pissed in a soda can …we now call that Red Bull.
by Belize on Jun 3, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
as crazy as that thing is, it still has proper forward rotation. try again.
by smash! on Jun 3, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how bout bill?
Derrick Rose once pissed in a soda can …we now call that Red Bull.
by Belize on Jun 3, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I said current, but that was because when I think "crazy shot" I think of Cartwright.
I think he was a pretty good shooter though. And his rotation was straight because that second hand stayed back as he released it. I don’t know what the logic was behind shooting so high, but I guess it’s more logical than marion, since theoretically marion’s shot should get blocked alot since the release is so low. It is quicker than Cartwrights though…
by smash! on Jun 3, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Almost all players used to have much higher release points
because of the lack 3-point shot meant there was no advantage to shooting away farther from the basket. So guys developed shots that allowed them to shoot closer to the basket and over their defender. Watch some ESPN classic from the 70s or 80s. A lot of guys put the ball all the way behind their heads before coming forward with their shot. The 3-point line dramatically altered shooting form over time, to the point where that high release point style no longer really exists.
As far as Dollar Bill’s shot goes. How he actually released the ball was perfectly sound, it’s just his loading mechanism that’s weird.
by Scotter on Jun 3, 2009 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really good points.
I would have loved to see Bill take a 3-pt shot… can’t remember him ever taking/making any, even in desperation buzzer beaters.
by smash! on Jun 3, 2009 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
doesnt peja rotate his shot the other way??
I remember Michael dribbling at the top of the key. Everybody knew to just get the hell out of his way. - Steve Kerr
by Yibs on Jun 3, 2009 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and most definetley
this guy..
I remember Michael dribbling at the top of the key. Everybody knew to just get the hell out of his way. - Steve Kerr
by Yibs on Jun 3, 2009 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's actually got good wrist action on his shooting hand.
He just has his helping hand a little too involved and his elbow unaligned. I wouldn’t think it would be too hard to “fix.” The danger with “fixing” it, though, is you take away all of his touch. Thorpe has said in many chat answers that he wouldn’t necessarily rebuild Noah’s shot as much as make sure he can be consistent with it and try to improve accuracy as much as possible. We’ll see. I tend to agree with Edicus above.
by arjoseph on Jun 3, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but dont you understand that the reason he can't knock down the shot is because of his form? he'll never be able to shoot...
a consistent mid-range jumper with that shot. never.
by smash! on Jun 3, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man I hate that argument "it's too late to change his shot"
His shot is ABYSMAL so why is it too late to change it? He doesn’t have a shot! Why not go from nothing to possibly something? He can’t make a 6 ft shot. If he doesn’t bank it in, he just can’t shoot it, and if he’s too far to bank it, shooting isn’t even an option. His free throws have gotten better, but I don’t trust those long-term either. It’s pathetic how other teams don’t even bother to guard him from 7 ft out.
I changed my shot one summer in high school and came out blazing from long range the following year. It can be done. Pros have done it, too. John Salmons to name one!
by smash! on Jun 3, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why does a center need a jumpshot?
Shaq never had one. I don’t remember Olajuwon or Robinson or Ewing having one. Dwight Howard doesn’t have one.
Obviously Noah isn’t as offensively gifted as those players, but he can be effective offensively with a reliable baby hook like Kendrick Perkins has, where if he gets good position deep in the paint, there’s a good chance he’s scoring. He’s already a decent free throw shooter and an above average passer and rebounder… one little move and he’s one of the better offensive centers in the game. No need to try to turn him into Brad Miller.
by YaoPau on Jun 3, 2009 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe it's just me, but I seem to remember Ewing's game being based off his ability to shoot the baseline jumper
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jun 3, 2009 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Hakeem had one of the prettiest jumpers for a big man you'll ever see
My greatest enemy is my inner me
by TheCool1 on Jun 3, 2009 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As TheCool said, Hakeem had a great jumper. So does Duncan.
So does KG. Malone’s wasn’t bad, either. Of course Noah doesn’t strictly need one, but with his slight build and ball handling skills, it sure would help if he could reliably knock down a 12 footer. I doubt he ever puts on enough weight to be a serious post-up threat.
by arjoseph on Jun 3, 2009 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you don't remember Olajuwon or Robinson or Ewing having one then I hope you're too young to remember watching them...
or else I’m gonna have to write you off as just having a terrible memory.
As for Shaq and Howard- you’re completely right. Although I think Howard will develop one, Shaq never did. But he was successful because he was able to physically punish and dominate the opponent, and then dunk on you. Howard is on the same path.
I wouldn’t call Noah a decent free-throw shooter until he turns in a full season over 70%. He did improve a shit-ton at the end of the year, which speaks highly of him bc when they counted, his muscle memory kicked in and he swished them.
And I completely agree that he should develop a baby hook. He’s so tall, but he’s skinny, so until he bulks up, the best way to use his height when he’s guarded around the rim is with the hook. Plus, I think he’ll get good rotation on it since he won’t have a choice but to NOT use that off hand which messes up his rotation.
by smash! on Jun 3, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah so much for my trying to sound informed about anything pre 1996 :)
I just looked through some Ewing/Olajuwon/Robinson mixtapes… damn they were good. Nice jumpers too.
by YaoPau on Jun 3, 2009 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahh, you are a youngin, aren't you:)
Yeah, they were damn good. Especially Hakeem IMO.
by smash! on Jun 3, 2009 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the answer your "why is it too late to change it"
Because for a shot to be effective, it has to go in at a high rate. Joakim made 19.4% of his jumpers in 2007-2008, and he barely took any last year. To be effective, he’s got to get to at least 42-43%, and even that probably isn’t helping the team because he does so much on the offensive glass.
I’d rather we just teach Noah and Tyrus post moves. Tyrus “developed” a jumpshot and I think his game is worse for it.
by YaoPau on Jun 3, 2009 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, but this post doesn't make much logical sense to me...
The reason he didn’t take any jumpshots is because he can’t make them. Duh:)
by smash! on Jun 3, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
alternative view from a non-bulls fan
Felix in Memphis:
If Luol Deng is injured again this next season will the Bulls try to move him? He seems like he’s always hurt. Should he play for GB this summer?
Mike Moreau:
Yes, he should play for GB this summer. So should BG play for GB this summer. The Bulls might try to move him anyway. I know his injuries have been frustrating for everyone.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 3, 2009 10:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i've warmed up to the idea myself a bit
most of the stuff is late summer anyway (games don’t start till september according to one of the articles i saw) and as long as it doesn’t get in the way of his rehab, it may do him some good.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
by Jaina on Jun 3, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know how I feel about it. If he plays well and doesn't get hurt, great.
If not, screw him.
The other side of it is that as he the playoffs start, Deng will be finishing his 8th straight month of basketball. Unless the Bulls give him a LOT of rest during training camp. Of course, we all think he needs a lot more time in the “system” to be a productive offensive player and that would be done in training camp, soooo…..
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 3, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It might help his trade value
If he goes to GB and plays really well….so in that case I’m all for it.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
by majoyenrac on Jun 3, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Goooood.
Very good. If he is as good in the 1st half of 2009-10 as he was in the 2nd half of 2008-09 (and keeps it up all season) he should be averaging a double-double at the very least. We might actually see teams doubling him at some point – unless Vinny has his way and tells everyone just to chuck and chuck and chuck.
I really liked how he improved on finishing strong last year and really started slamming the ball down – hopefully he can add a hook or something out of the post – and with his passing skills he should be able to find cutters (Luol – this is where you come in) heading to the basket for easy layups.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Jun 3, 2009 11:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
dear pax,
trade noah and im farting on your pillow
Derrick Rose once pissed in a soda can …we now call that Red Bull.
by Belize on Jun 3, 2009 12:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That stuff lingers too...
Like pizza? Me too.
Check out my pizza review site.
by FAQ on Jun 3, 2009 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ummm
would it have killed noah to take tyrus along with him…..?
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Jun 3, 2009 1:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Tyrus is working out with BG's PB&J maker
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jun 3, 2009 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
IMG only allows 3 guys per team I believe
Not sure who the other 2 from the Bulls are but I think that’s why TT isn’t going there.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Jun 3, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thorpe said in a chat a couple weeks ago it's 2/team and they're expecting Deng back this summer
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jun 3, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Deng more a part of team Great Britain
than the Bulls – he shouldn’t count!
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Jun 3, 2009 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
where derrick going?
Derrick Rose once pissed in a soda can …we now call that Red Bull.
by Belize on Jun 3, 2009 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's taking Hooked on Phonics classes this summer
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
by Big D on Jun 3, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's just wrong
give the kid a break!!!
by Bullsfanla on Jun 3, 2009 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Derrick Rose once pissed in a soda can …we now call that Red Bull.
by Belize on Jun 3, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
SAT prep class
48 minutes of intensity...RIP NVL.
by Lt.Dan on Jun 3, 2009 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has anybody come back from IMG better?
It seems like Luol got worse, Tyrus started taking stupid jumpshots, Kevin Martin is leading SacTown into the ground…
Maybe IMG is awesome for football and baseball, but maybe there’s a reason why they’ve only recruited a few NBA players.
by YaoPau on Jun 3, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, as Kevin Martin has learned to improve his personal stats he's also taken lessons on how to bring down his teammates
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jun 3, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the rest of the Kings need help being down.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 4, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This great News
Remember after we got bounced from the playoffs and those vacation photos surfaced a few of you gusy we’re dogging him. Great to know he’s in the gym and working on his game. Hopefully they can help him with afew post moves and a free throw line jumper.
by Bullsfanla on Jun 3, 2009 4:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Noah's gonna be a star!
… Eh, not really, but he’ll improve, and I know he can be a beast.
If he can add weight to that frame he’ll be basically unstoppable. As long as people like Perkins can’t just shove him out of the way. :P
Three things you must know:
-"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
-Pau Gasol: The defense of a seven foot ladder paired with the post presence of Manute Bol.
-Joakim Noah is better than you.
by Prevenge on Jun 3, 2009 7:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather Noah work on adding bulk
than trying to create a jumpshot. He needs to be able to hold the line in the paint when he’s getting posted.
Adding bulk should make working on a jumper more difficult, but his shots are going to come 8 feet from the rim and closer.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jun 4, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
Though in a perfect world he would be doing both.
Three things you must know:
-"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
-Pau Gasol: The defense of a seven foot ladder paired with the post presence of Manute Bol.
-Joakim Noah is better than you.
by Prevenge on Jun 4, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
IMHO
Noah was the best center not names Howard in the playoffs this year.
by Cannoli on Jun 4, 2009 9:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Nene, Kendrick Perkins and Pau Gasol...
Raise their hands…
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jun 4, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agree with Nene and Perkins
but I don’t agree on Pau
"Worker bees can leave.
Even drones can fly away.
The Queen is their slave."
by jpchi on Jun 4, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
um...
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 4, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn'
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jun 4, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't Pau really a 4 and not a 5?
Especially with Bynum in the game.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jun 4, 2009 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll take Yao
Noah was better than Oden, so there’s that.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 4, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Against the juggernaut that is Kendrick Perkins.
I figured out why David Thorpe said that shit. He works out Noah. What is he supposed to say?
by Sabonis4Ever on Jun 4, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perkins looked fantastic during the playoffs, so not sure where the dig on him comes from
Noah hasn’t worked with Thorpe before, he’s always sung his praises. Until Oden learns how to not foul every 2 minutes, we can still have this debate.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 4, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yao destroyed Oden.
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton
by fundamentallysound on Jun 4, 2009 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
like ozzie said..
Derrick Rose once pissed in a soda can …we now call that Red Bull.
by Belize on Jun 4, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was going to say Perkins
Just from memory he seemed to have the better series than Noah. Checking the numbers you find that Noah out performed him.
Noah’s ORTG: 125!
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jun 4, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A Perkins moving screen out plays Noah.
Otherwise Noah had a better series.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Jun 4, 2009 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you see the Celtics fans saying Noah didn't set one legal screen?
Celtics fans saying this!
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jun 4, 2009 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Noah is a bean pole.
If you can’t get around that… even a moving bean pole can be easily navigated.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Jun 4, 2009 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yao
looked great b4 he hurt his pinky toe
Derrick Rose once pissed in a soda can …we now call that Red Bull.
by Belize on Jun 4, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mmm stress fractures
Three things you must know:
-"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
-Pau Gasol: The defense of a seven foot ladder paired with the post presence of Manute Bol.
-Joakim Noah is better than you.
by Prevenge on Jun 4, 2009 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This statement was made recently concerning Dwight Howard's 2009 summer off season by an "involved player development nba GM"
“It’s a really big summer for him,” Otis Smith said. “When he develops that counter move, the rest of the league had better watch out. They’ll be at his mercy then.”
Our hiding “GM” is hiding under some other title but still running the show behind the covers and views summer as his exclusive family vacation time and player development as something his office only gives lip service too by posting “IMG” posters in the locker room! Others on this thread have commented of the poor results thus far from “IMG”.
I imagine we know more about Ryan doing push-ups in the Marines than we know coming from Pax about Tyrus or Noah developing post moves or Deng visiting the Wizard of Oz to obtain a heart.
This Bulls Mgmt (Paxson & company) continues to be non basketball team building saavy and frustratingly more self centered, and the players have adopted the same attitude. (Pay me like the nba allstars ..72 mi. for Luol Deng, because I feel you really don’t care much about winning big)
Note: Former Bulls Noc, Krappy and present cow Deng enjoyed playing more on their national teams than the Bulls? Paxson sets the culture and environment for no personal or team excitement because the lazy hiding under another title GM doesn’t really care other than collecting a pay check just like some of his players.
man up!
by exult463 on Jun 4, 2009 5:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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