Day-after Bulls draft analysis: the night didn't matter, what happens next matters
My mindset last night when I wrote this was coming from overall disappointment in the franchise, not in the particular picks. While I would've gone with Blair, I don't want to come across as one of the types who thinks he can scout this draft because he read what other people scouted. That said, it's still a headscratcher that they couldn't use #26 on Blair. Even if Blair did get obese and his legs fell off and ultimately had a Mike Sweetney-esque career, that's still solid value for a 26th overall pick...with a chance that it'd turn out much much better.
But what drafting James Johnson and Taj Gibson means is entirely up to the context in which this roster is re-formed in the next couple months:
Say a consolidation trade for another starter happens (and clearly some are being given away around the leage). Gibson is a high-floor frontcourt player (practically already a vet at 24) who can hopefully soak up some minutes if the roster is depleted. Johnson projects to be the kind of 'power three' that the Bulls don't have, and certainly they could use depth at the SF/PF position, with Tim Thomas and Linton Johnson taking that role to end last season. I wonder how quickly Johnson can be ready (or at least how quickly at least some of his contributions can be ready, if not the whole package), but this analysis at least gives some credence to him being worth a shot. And if Tyrus indeed goes in a trade, it won't be the worst thing to have a replacement 'project'.
But if this is just the start of a season-long 'stay the course', it stinks. Getting two more players on rookie deals could just mean cost-cutting. Sorry: 'rebuilding'. And KC Johnson floats this alarming subtext:
The addition of two forwards brings into question the future of Tyrus Thomas, whose window to extend his rookie contract opens July 1. Historically, the Bulls have been reluctant to extend rookie contracts in the first summer of eligibility, and adding Johnson and Gibson crowds the frontcourt further.
Ah yes, lets already get Organizational leverage against the soon-to-be 23 year old just in case he actually wants to be paid soon. Or maybe they'll just dump him and sell Johnson to us as another Thomas.
(And the Bulls never extend deals early , unless you're Kirk Hinrich. Or maybe they'll offer an early extension to you and bash you if you don't sign it...whichever.)
So is this the plan? Figure you have Derrick Rose, no need to try and win right away (again, despite the unprecendeted position of strength the Bulls are in compared to the rest of the league) and get more rookies, more cheap contracts. Not only will Ben Gordon be allowed to walk, they already have to plan for a hardball negotation with Tyrus Thomas a year in advance?
I don't think the picks on Thursday in and of themselves indicate either way which direction the Bulls are going this offseason. But at the very least it took away an opportunity of the 'big trade' route: there's only one draft night. July 1st will prove to be another chance.
But to be honest, if the plan all along was to simply hold back, ride that magical playoff loss into another average season, and pick up a couple rookies along the way in case existing players are let go...it's really nothing against Johnson and Gibson: I wouldn't have cared who was taken at either spot. It's too long a time until July 2010, and plenty of other teams with real ambition aren't staying so content.
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Agreed all the way around. It's getting harder and harder to cheer for this organization.
The risk aversion, the lack of imagination, the desire for profit above all else, it’s enough to make a fan think of just giving up and moving on.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Jun 26, 2009 10:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree
If I could stand it, I’d be a Pacers fan, but they have all the downsides of the bulls coupled with a fairly legitimate financial problem and small market.
I dunno which is worse. To be a small market team in a small market, or to be a small market team in a big market.
by Sports2 on Jun 26, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weren't they last in the league in attendance?
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
by Big D on Jun 26, 2009 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The excitement is gone, now I'm just nervous for July 1st
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 26, 2009 10:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Fuck This
GO BEARS
honestly ppl should boycott the games, its getting ridiculous, weve made the playoffs 4 of the last 5 times, and we’ve never had a team that even looked close to contending for the championship, we have no superstar, no allstar, a hockey coach,
almost everyteam has an all star in this game
hawks-joe johnson
nets-harris (had carter)
Pistons- rip prince sheed
pacers-granger
HEat-wade
Cavs-Bron
Lakes-kobe
blah blah u know the rest
but the closest thing we had to an allstar is leaving and, we low balled his ass
if we dont do one of the following this offseason:
1- Sign BG
2-Trade for Bosh
3- For Amare
im not gonna watch a game until the trade deadline, and if we attempt to sign someone then and end up with trading salmons and brad miller for shit like nick collison and earl watson or sumshit… im gonna quit on this franchise…
by Faizamaze on Jun 26, 2009 10:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Cool i hope that happens
I would mean the prices of the tickets would drop on ebay and i could go to some good games in good seats for cheap!!!!
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Jun 28, 2009 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think they've already punted on the 2009-2010 season
All signs point to Gordon being gone. I don’t think anyone could listen (and watch) Gar’s answer about affording both Deng and Gordon and not think Gordon is gone. And that makes the draft picks make sense: Salmons moves to SG and Johnson backs up Deng, Gibson backs up Tyrus. The next season will be the Bulls crossing their fingers and hoping for mediocrity.
Longer term, I think Tyrus is gone after this next season. The contracts of Deng and Kirk have and will prove impossible to move (at least on terms that Gar Paxdorf will accept). Without removing both those contracts, there’s no way the Bulls will layout full rdie money to anyone. So I don’t see anyone big FA acquisition after next season. And really, who the hell would want to play for the Bulls anyway?
by hitlesswonder on Jun 26, 2009 10:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Stupid Gar says he was surpised Gibson fell to us
Did anyone see Gibson ranked as a first round prospect on any scouting analysis? I’m not saying that these things are the buring bush, but when the entire world thinks he’s maybe the 40th best player in this draft (tops) and we’re surprised he fell to us, doesn’t that mean we’re pretty stupid?
by Rose Colored Goggles on Jun 26, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gar wanted a defensive specialist,
and he got one. Too bad there were better players available (i.e. Blair). Nevertheless, at the 26th pick, the likelihood is that we would end up getting a decent rotation guy at best (an 8th or 9th man). Gibson wouldn’t have been my choice, but I really wouldn’t expect the 26th pick in this year’s draft to be much more than a role-playing specialist anyway.
At any rate, “what happens next” sums it up well. Without Gordon and/or a superstar signing, this team regresses from last year’s group. Re-sign Gordon (or replace him with Wade, Redd, or maybe Joe Johnson) and add a superstar big man (Bosh), and hope is alive. Obviously getting all of that done is no cinch, but the Bulls have enough pieces to make it happen, if the front office has the cajones to take risks
by T-Boogie on Jun 27, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i actually think gar was stunned at how dumb stu's question was
stu said something like “how do you guys plan to afford both deng and gordon,” and to me, that came off as implying that both of them were free agents (and I think Gar got that some impression too). I’m just crossing my fingers and am going to give the org. the benefit of the doubt with respect to re-signing Gordon— after all, it is a pretty decent sign that they didn’t draft any type of guard last night
by Calogero on Jun 26, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not drafting a guard could really work with either scenario re Gordon
I forget who, but someone posted last night that it seemed likely that they are pushing a front court player to the back court (Salmons) and filling in the empty front court slot.
by hitlesswonder on Jun 26, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Salmons really is either/or
Offensively, I’d rather have him at the SF because he isn’t much of a passer, but on defense he’s good enough to hold his own against most 2 guards, who other than the upper-tier tend to just be isolation scorers.
Kirk’s contract isn’t impossible to move, that’s the crazy part. It’s 26.5 million over the next 3 seasons, and 9.5 million this year. That’s incredibly movable in this league, there has to be a desire to trade him.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 26, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i dont particularly like salmons at either spot
to me he is your prototypical, average player. he doesn’t rebound well enough to play the 3, and isn’t really quick enough or a good enough passer for the 2. sure he can do some things and had a nice season last year, but to me, if we can get any sort of value back for an average player with a reasonable contract, he’s the guy who should go
by Calogero on Jun 26, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's a useful bench player, unfortunately he hates coming off the bench
However, he’s fresh off the best season of his career and people are actually recognizing who he is. Next year he can opt out of his contract and potentially sign his last big extension. There will be a lot of incentive for him to display a good all-around game this season.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 26, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Hinrich, Salmons and Rose as a backcourt rotation.
In that the roles are clearly defined, the minutes could be evenly distributed, with Kirk player both positions depending on who he is paired with on the floor. Of course, this is predicated on Salmons being able to play at the level he played last season.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jun 26, 2009 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Evidently Gar is rumored to have said on ESPN radio that they aren't moving Kirk.
Wow. I would have been happy with a Johnson and Blair draft. I think everyone is kinda disappointed and confused as to what the plan is now.
Taj seems like a Cedric Simmons type player. Chuck Swirsky said Joe Smith. Great.
I really hope they just focus on resigning BG. They keep saying thats what they want.
by SoulEater7 on Jun 26, 2009 10:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
it's not entirely up to them anymore
so we’ll see what the Pistons want
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 26, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Detroit just drafted a PF who is skinnier than Tayshaun Prince, so maybe they just throw everything they have at Boozer?
According to Bucher, Boozer is going to stay in Utah unless Detroit makes a good offer, but can the Pistons actually offer deals if he doesn’t opt out?
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 26, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Detroit is more likely
To offer a guy like Gortat something above MLE, offer BG something, then play the season with a resigned McDyess, Gortat, Brown and Maxiel. Call it a hunch…
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jun 26, 2009 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thonus has been pretty insistent
that they are going to move kirk regardless, and after not even taking a guard last night, I dont see how they don’t re-sign BG if the plan is indeed to move Kirk
by Calogero on Jun 26, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is Gar's fascination with "versatile" players?
I think that was the first thing he said about Johnson: he’s versatile. Who gives a shit?
It’s as if Forman was thinking “Guys, how can we best use this draft to force VDN to fire himself? I mean, if only there were a player who is a me-first offensive cancer AND plays multiple positions, allowing for tons of lineup changes… that person would play directly into VDN’s two main weaknesses! …oh my god… JAMES JOHNSON!”
by YaoPau on Jun 26, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would have preferred Paxson at the helm this year
At least I would have known to aggressively watch the Final Four again.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 26, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
be careful what you wish for
“and at pick 16, the Bulls select Goran Suton…”
by Calogero on Jun 26, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because they hope they have their starters at PG, SF, PF & C....
…and there wasn’t a legitimate SG. Versatility in back-ups is essential.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 26, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a couple of days ago you were touting James Johnson's ability to play shooting guard
now you are knocking him for his versatility?
by Basketball Smurf on Jun 26, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me spell it
out for you guys. Epic fail by drafting the scrubs we did last night. Now we are gauranteed to resign BG (clap Matt). Not really a bad thing IMO but not only are we going to resign BG but guess what? We’re going to over pay for him, big time…. Go Bulls!! We have no leverage with BG now, we had a terrible draft, we dont have a SG, we didnt draft one incase. All signs point to resigning Bg for tons of money. You guys think Dings deal was bad? Watch how bad Raymond brothers bend us over for BG. Get the vasoline cause its gonna hurt…
Another thing. Its pretty obvious TT is somewhat of a mental midget, how does drafting two PF (cause jj is a pf not a sf like some of you think) help him? Is this suppose to spur him on to greatness or is he going to pout? I do think he’s alot better than both draft picks.
Just blown away. Why pass blair at 26? I think they were either fed some misinformation or there is something only these Gm’s know..
by Bulls4Ever on Jun 26, 2009 11:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
man you just dont get it.
Who would you rather had at 16? I maybe would have prefered jrue holliday, and traded him for a future 1st rounder… maybe??? I wouldnt have wanted BJ mullens, if all you guys are pouting about being mediocre next year, because he is not helping anyone in the next 3 year.s Dejuan blair wasnt picked until mid 2nd round, so my guess is, the GMs knew something us bloggers dont… shocking i know.
THere is absolutely no sign we are “guaranteed” to resign BG. ESPECIALLY if we have to overpay for him. We have Rose, Hinrich and Salmons. 3 starting caliber players for 2 guard spots. we havent wanted to pay for a short player with 1 exteremely awesome skill of scoring. we arent about to decide… ‘oh well, we didnt wanna pay 9 million a year for him last year, lets pay him 11 million this year’ thats just f;in stupid. The bulls have been pretty good aobut giving players fair contracts, even though deng is injured he was worth it when we gave it to him. complain about the draft all you want, you should expect a player as good as sefolosha or carney from the draft, thats who we got when we drafted at 16 a few years back… were all of you saying it was an epic fail then???
by sillyrussian on Jun 26, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we also got
Ron Artest at 16 in 99. Just saying.
"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ
by Rankdog on Jun 27, 2009 1:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Ron Artest's wife threw a pot at his Hummer's windshield
after he backhanded her in front of their (at the time) 3 year old in 2007.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 27, 2009 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like a lot of people have been saying,
everyone just needs to relax. Did the draft go as well as it could have? Probably not. But the average marginal value of any one player over another at the 26 pick is so small that the probable long-term benefit is de minimis. And dare I say that James Johnson is not a ‘risk averse’ pick (nor was Tyrus Thomas, for that matter).
As far as Gibson goes, I think everyone here is massively underselling him. He may be a little ‘lean’ and old, yes, but he’s a legit 6’10" with a 7’4" wingspan and a 9’1" standing reach. He put up 14 ppg, grabbed 9 rpg, and blocked 3 shots per game against respectable competition in the Pac-10. And he did it while shooting 60% from the field, and not in Tyrus Thomas dunks-over-everyone-every-time fashion; he’s got a polished inside game, and he can contribute immediately. He’s got a great attitude, he can run the floor and he can seriously elevate to finish at the rim. Plus he’s likely now our best offensive rebounder, given that Tyrus has decided to stop doing that.
I’m a BC guy, and Taj Gibson is the ONLY reason we didn’t make it past USC in the tournament this year.
by onthemark12 on Jun 26, 2009 11:21 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
i agree with this in some respects
i can see reasons for pessimism today, but i also think there are reasons for optimism. i think the taj backlash is simply because we were all stunned that blair was still there at 26 and we passed on him. i think taj has some ability and will stick in this league as a useful backup big, which at pick 26 is fine.
by Calogero on Jun 26, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Taj to me
is Varejao.
Why would anyone complain if we could get anderson varejao at 26???? a 6"10 prolific wing span, rebounds, defends, blocks shots, and pretty skinny, but hustles his ass off
by sillyrussian on Jun 26, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
Varejao’s putting up the same numbers in the NBA as Gibson did in the Pac-10. Pac-10 does not equal NBA. There’s a reason Varejao’s expecting $8-9 mil a year.
by YaoPau on Jun 26, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good comparison
compare a 5 year vet to a guy coming out of college. his rookie year varejao averaged 5 rebounds and 5 points and less htan 1 assist,block, steal per game… outtstanding right? players never develop other skills over 5 yeras…
by sillyrussian on Jun 26, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gibson is 24 freakin' years old, so yes it is appropriate to compare them
especially because Andy V is 26 now and 2 years ago, he was awesome, too.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Jun 26, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"andy v" was never and never will be awesome in any way
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart
by Jbasic89 on Jun 26, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's awesome at his role.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Jun 26, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two years ago...
Andy V. got paid the MLE after average 6 and 6.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jun 26, 2009 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he didn't play a ton of minutes and he did a lot of things that don't get measured that way.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Jun 26, 2009 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm over what happened
The draft was a precursor to the larger chain of events that need to happen for this team. If the Bulls aren’t aggressive in re-signing BG, trading Hinrich, putting themselves out in every damn Amare/Bosh rumor known to man, then that will be more disappointing.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 26, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he's beanpole thin
Lack of defensive rebounding / ability to guard meaty bigs is what cost us the Boston series. The Magic have Dwight Howard. The Cavs have Shaq. If we’re going to push through the East, we’ll need someone who at worst can defensive rebound and hopefully help on defense a bit too.
Gibson does neither. He’s Tyrus’s size, and worse defensively. He had 9 rebounds in 33 minutes last year, that sucks. I’ve liked Gibson and I think he can find a place in this league, but he makes no sense alongside Tyrus and Noah.
by YaoPau on Jun 26, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok gibson is beanpole thin
but johnson is 6’8 260 pounds, former kickboxer or whatever. he’s the strong guy that will keep big baby or perkins from pushing us around. taj, is the rebounder, johnson is the bully. thats why we didnt get blair. why would we want to short ish, bulky guys? they would be used for hte same situations.
by sillyrussian on Jun 26, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ya but our Bully Johnson
is 260 with a 8’9.5" standing reach…pretty good right? Blair is 280 with a 8’10.5" reach!
Also, Johnson averaged 9.9 rebs, 1.7 stls, 1.8 blks, 2.8 TOs per 40 pace adjusted.
Blair averaged 18 rebs, 2.3 stls, 1.4 blks, 1.8 TOs per 40 pace adjusted
I’m sorry, but if you are going to get a “Bully” get the one that is bigger and better
by DRose01 on Jun 26, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm did Forman want a bruising big man, and just think Johnson was better than Blair?
That would explain his not drafting Blair at 26. From the few tapes and game I watched Johnson, I thought he was more of a SF (possibly even an NBA) than a PF – giving us a need for Blair at 26 – but maybe Forman saw PF all the way.
DraftExpress on Johnson:
He isn’t as solid as you’d hope either, forgetting to box out his man in crucial moments, being late to rotate defensively, and generally being inconsistent from game to game and often possession to possession. Johnson seems like the kind of guy who needs special attention from the coaching staff to make sure they’re getting (and will get) 100% out of him at all times, although this could be something that improves with added maturity.
So much of that screams disaster, but I’d like to give Forman the benefit of the doubt here, especially since I’ve seen so little about Johnson. Per possession, Johnson had more defensive rebounds, steals, and blocks than Hansbrough, and I’m sure Vinny likes that he has a big man who can shoot a little too. If they took Johnson to be their big brusing PF… I’ll reserve judgment on the pick…
by YaoPau on Jun 26, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
From what I can tell, he certainly didn't seem to play like a big bruiser
And based on his body fat, he’d be better off dropping 10-15lbs.
They said they drafted him primarily as a 3 and that’s what makes the most sense to me. Whether he’s a success or not is an open question, but I think their judgements about what type of player he could be is the right one.
by Sports2 on Jun 26, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i guess u forgot,
blair was a fatty 4 weeks ago, and magically lost 40 pounds. then he has no acl…. something to be considered.
Also, blair is 6’6 in shoes, johnson is 6’8. i know everyone is gaga for the reach statistic, but height still matters.
by sillyrussian on Jun 26, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not really
why does how high the top of your head reaches matter?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 26, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
eye level?
gotta be a correlation between that and the top of the head.
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
by marionette on Jun 26, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think people minded so much that Johnson was picked at 16th instead of Blair.
The problem is that Blair wasn’t picked at 26th. I guess it is good Blair didn’t come to us. He would be like the incredible shrinking Gordon. Bulls fans love to be experts on how tall someone is.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Jun 26, 2009 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
absolutely
it’s incredibly stupid. I’m still not over it passing on Blair at 26. Don’t think I will be, especially every time I see our skinny asses get pushed around. If we ended with JJ and Blair I would have been ecstatic – just on cloud 9. We would’ve had one of the best drafts in the league. Now…holy shit. A 214lbs pf? A guy who makes T2 look strong?!?
The only upside is Johnson does help with toughness. Dude’s a trained fighter. At the very least, we got D. Rose a bodyguard on the court.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jun 27, 2009 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
look at #3 for an appraisal of johnson's toughness.
by TheMoon on Jun 28, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
that we got the #3 and #5 guys on his PF board. Obviously the Bulls took a long look at Blair (he had 2 visits here) and found some reason to pass on him… Also, there are 29 other teams that did the same thing, many passing on him more than once! Shoot, the Pistons could have grabbed him two picks before the spurs did, and they could use a power forward!
I think Blair will be OK in the NBA, but maybe the expectations for him should be as a contributor off the bench… Taj gives us that, along with solid defense (though he needs to add bulk.) We were all bitching about defense here this year, so I don’t really mind skipping Blair for Taj if they’re both going to be specialists off the bench….
by 72-10 on Jun 28, 2009 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also for reference
David Lee (a solid NBA rebounder) averaged 12.8 rebs per 40 pace adjusted his senior year at Florida! What Blair did last year was phenomenal!
by DRose01 on Jun 26, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blair on the Spurs is going to be scary
Between Duncan and Blair the Spurs should have monster rebound nights.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jun 26, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and
gibsons best strength is his rebounding, and shot blocking. no hes not beefy, but he can still rebound the ball. with his 7’4 wingspan
by sillyrussian on Jun 26, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
9 rebounds in 33 minutes is his strength?
That’s… a terrible way to defend a player.
by YaoPau on Jun 26, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You do realize that 9 in 33 is almost exactly what Paul Millsap put up, yes?
And if I remember correctly, people wanted Blair because he ‘was’ Paul Millsap.
Before you make the NBA vs college argument, don’t forget that skill sets and performance levels extrapolate outwards as competition increases.
by onthemark12 on Jun 26, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are you on
Millsap averaged 13.3 rebs in 34 minutes in college. Rebounding translates, but nobody said it was 1 to 1.
by YaoPau on Jun 26, 2009 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was talking his numbers from last year.
by onthemark12 on Jun 26, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because we all know the NBA and college are the same.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 26, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because we all know the WAC and the Pac-10 are the same.
I’m not implying that he is Paul Millsap. I’m saying 9 rebounds in 33 minutes is by no means terrible.
by onthemark12 on Jun 26, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mean...
You mockingly say…
because we all know the WAC and the Pac-10 are the same.
Right after arguing…
You do realize that [Gibson’s] 9 in 33 is almost exactly what Paul Millsap put up [in the NBA], yes?
Gibson’s rebounding isn’t terrible, you’re right. But unless it’s better than Tyrus’s mediocre rebounding (it’s not), he doesn’t help us.
by YaoPau on Jun 26, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was comparing Taj's stats to Millsap's stats
to point out the absolute quality of one statistical value (in this case, 9 rebounds in 33 minutes). We all agree that Millsap is a good rebounder, hence 9 rebounds in 33 minutes does not “suck”, as you put it. I was not saying that 9 rebounds in the Pac-10 is the same as 9 in the NBA, just as it is unfair to compare 13 rebounds in the WAC to 9 in the Pac-10. What I was trying to say is that if 0.27 rebounds per minute is well above average in the NBA, then by definition, even on a non-level playing field, 0.27 in a respectable collegiate conference cannot be terrible.
And actually I think Taj could prove to be a better rebounder than Tyrus, if for no other reason than the fact that he doesn’t take plays off.
by onthemark12 on Jun 26, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tyrus was 10th in nation at DRB% in college
Taj isn’t Millsap, and he isn’t Tyrus Thomas either. A DRB% under 20% at age 24 in the PAC-10 does not in anyway suggest a future career as a strong rebounding PF.
by Scotter on Jun 26, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
"Tyrus was 10th in nation at DRB% in college"
In an SEC that was pretty strong at the time, no less.
by jpx7 on Jun 26, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
per pace adjusted 40 mins he had 11 rebounds (not great but solid)
and if you look at his rate stats at kenpom.com, he had a 13.4 OReb% (not DeJuan Blair good, but pretty good) and 19.2 DReb% (again, not dominant but pretty good), plus he was in the Pac 10, which is a legit conference.
I was really angry with this pick, but Gibson is actually a pretty good rebounder. He’s just not anywhere near Blair. But he’s probably a bit better defender — he blocked 9.5% of shots when he was on the court (good for 25th in the whole country).
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Jun 26, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Summer league is next week
It’s not any final predictor, but it is pretty easy to separate guys who can play and guys who are just athletic dudes who run around.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 26, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Gibson is going to be out of the league in two years, but hey, great pick GarPaxDorf!
Gibson isn’t even athletic. Plus, he’s 24!!!
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Jun 26, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Did you just contradict yourself?
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 26, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I was pointing out facts to YaoPau that Gibson was a better than he thought rebounder
but that I still think he sucks and will be a bust. No contradiction.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Jun 26, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol, this team is murder
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 26, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gibson doesn't help us
We don’t need an offensive rebounder, we’ve got enough skinny guys who can spin around box outs. We’re awesome at offensive rebounding. We need a big thick dude who can hold his box out on the defensive end. Tyrus absolutely cannot do that.
Taj Gibson this year against the Pac-10: 19.4 DRB%. Tyrus Thomas this year in the NBA: 18.9 DRB%. It’s a disaster.
by YaoPau on Jun 26, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, like I said... I hated this pick. I cursed. Loudly. When Blair was
snubbed, twice.
Gibson isn’t even a rotation player. I’d rather have seen them trade the pick for cash than this.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Jun 26, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't been this pissed off
since we traded Aldridge for Tyrus. I was soooo pissed that night. That night in 2006 and last night were two of my heaviest drinking-by-myself moments of all time. And I WAS at a draft party. I literally left to go drink myself to sleep. Fuck this team, Jesus Christ.
That said I’m sure I’ll be the first to cheer when we win our first game on December 15th.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Jun 26, 2009 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That night was also a final straw with me towards the Bulls Organization and John Paxson
Similiar, but slightly different… With the second pick I wanted the Bulls to take Brandon Roy (Even tho he was projected to go a bit lower(5), he was the prize of the 2006 draft class, I also like Aldridge better than Tyrus).
I have always contended that Tyrus Thomas basketball ability and projected skill was bloated and I saw him as a late first rounded 18 – 28 or a early second round pick. Yet, I have always like him as a personality and his aggressiveness and a bit of an attiude. But, the stupid Bulls organization really hates developing assertiveness and would rather have passive type players. Therefore it was an all around a terrible pick.
And hearing Paxson coin the phase “assets” was so angryly distrubing beyond comprehension when many were touting “In Pax we Trust”
Together with the signings of Kirk and Ben Wallace contact. Later with Deng and Noc contracts, I wanted this org to then hit rock bottom. I now still that will not happen because they are at least marginal perennially. Losing of Ben Gordon, with his clutch scoring replacement will make them below marginal!
Still I’m convinced this organization under John Paxson is/was the most idiotic professional sports organization I had ever witness closely in my lifetime thus far.
man up!
by exult463 on Jun 28, 2009 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed.
this is why even if blair’s has a faberge egg for a patella, i dont get this pick. blair might be out of the league in a few years because of health; but in the meantime we know he can do at least one thing well. gibson might be out in a few because he is 24 and didnt even dominate college and isnt very good.
by TheMoon on Jun 26, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good,
no one cares what you think. have you even seen him play?
by sillyrussian on Jun 26, 2009 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Bulls should invite some undrafted shooting guards for summer league.
Marquette’s Jerel McNeal (if 100% healthy) and Temple’s Dionte Christmas could possibly make the team (DePaul’s Dar Tucker could be a longshot candidate), and, if they fail, we just let them go before training camp. I’m sure somebody else can think of some decent shooting guards that fell through the cracks.
That aside, the summer league is not a very good way to tell if a guy’s gonna do well in the pros. Aaron Gray had a pretty damn good summer league last year, and I’m not seeing that success translating to the real NBA.
Side note: Omer Asik, our 2nd round center from last year’s draft, has been doing jack shit for Fenerbahce in Turkey. :(
by T-Boogie on Jun 27, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Omer's been injured.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Jun 27, 2009 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that makes sense then.
I just saw the per game averages and wasn’t impressed, but that explains a lot.
by T-Boogie on Jun 27, 2009 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Bulls should invite their the idoitic VP and GM to a letter with pink slips inside!
Omer Asik is doing or will continue to do as he is (you stated it)
And Gray and this new guy (26th pick) are already so far buried in the rotation, the Bulls should have trade this pick for the first pick in the second round and picked Blair.
man up!
by exult463 on Jun 28, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am usually on board your arguments.
But, please do not use college to stats to project NBA success…I get that rebounding usually translates well, but college stats in general are pretty meaningless when projecting success at the NBA level.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jun 26, 2009 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the Bulls drafted Gibson
to be a starter. They drafted him to be a backup (or as trade fodder). He ain’t gonna be guarding Shaq. He’ll be guarding the reserves on the other team, unless he excels defensively, in which case he might defend other team’s leaner forwards.
Did you expect the Bulls to get the next Bill Russel at #26 in one of the weaker drafts?
But again, I’d have REALLY liked them drafting Blair there at #26 instead.
by kozzer on Jun 26, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just want the Bulls to have one 6'10" player
who weighs more than me. I don’t think I’m being greedy.
by YaoPau on Jun 26, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you weigh more than brad miller
you might want to go on a diet
by Calogero on Jun 26, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hear ya
Being a bean pole isn’t going to help him, but skinny forwards aren’t unheard of in the NBA. We’ll see if he can find a Tayshaun Prince sort of niche, or if he’s out of the league before 3 years…
by kozzer on Jun 26, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except Prince plays SF.
Sheesh.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 26, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
...
you can’t players playing different positions have similar games?
by kozzer on Jun 26, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
being skinny means less on the perimeter
it matters if you’re going to be guarding bigger and stronger guys
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 26, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would you have Gibson defend
bigger post players? There are plenty of perimeter-oriented 4’s in the league, and it seems like there’s more every year. I agree with your basic point, but just because he’s a bean pole doesn’t mean that he’s not useful in particular matchups/situations. And being the 26th pick in this draft, that’s all you can really expect to get.
by kozzer on Jun 26, 2009 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How is someone who measures 6'9.75" in SHOES a "legit 6'10"? Can we stop w/ the cliches?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 26, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed about Taj
I don’t see where all of the hate is coming from. Yes he is older, but he’s still 24. Not that old. Also, he showed me that he was one of the few normal players on that USC team (DeRozan etc) and actually played normal basketball. He does run the floor very well and will prove to be a good defensive presence because of that freakish wingspan.
Rumor has it Alex Brown keeps Chris Simms' right index finger in his back pocket for good luck.
by HanelucaTC on Jun 29, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
We have no idea what this all means…if it means the Bulls will live in mediocraty for years to come, than it was a horrible, horrible draft. But that would have been true even if the Bulls drafted Blair…heck, even if they drafted nearly anyone short of Blake Griffin. Standing still and relying solely on draft picks rarely works! Unless of course you are the Spurs who drafted all of their big three, including Ginobli in the 2nd round, and who coincidently took Blair in the 2nd last night. And even the Spurs who have drafted well in the past made a big trade for RJ.
If the Bulls resign BG and make a big trade (including BG in that trade or not) I call our draft a success because we have versatile players who should be solid backups. If we fail on eiither of those fronts,we have failed to move forward.
by DRose01 on Jun 26, 2009 11:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Tim Duncan was a first rounder. First overall, even.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Jun 26, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True they fell into that one
But the other two picks were phenomenal…my point was that rarely does one achieve much of anything through just the draft, outside of a number one pick and even then that guy usually needs help.
by DRose01 on Jun 26, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gar on ESPN 100 with W&S
says he believes Kirk will still be a Bull next year. He’s speaking like a Paxbot.
Ben Gordon: Where Cojones Happen. - Gene Wojciechowski
by chibullsfan03 on Jun 26, 2009 11:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
still eyeing that jersey retirement for Kirk.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 26, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jun 26, 2009 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH some more
man up!
by exult463 on Jun 28, 2009 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So in other words, BG will be gone, and they'll be playing Kirk at the 2
And the team will struggle to score 90 points a game.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
by Big D on Jun 26, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he said he still wants ben back
but he gave the typical “blah blah Free agency starts July 1st blah blah”
Ben Gordon: Where Cojones Happen. - Gene Wojciechowski
by chibullsfan03 on Jun 26, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's bs. it's either Ben or Kirk. It has been since we drafted Derrick. They've chosen Kirk, it seems.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Jun 26, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's Gar saying about Deng?
Staying, going, or silent?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jun 26, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's full of shit
You can’t have a third guard making $9 million a year.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
by Big D on Jun 26, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, yes you can...
Kirk is now and will be a very trade-able player over the next year.
The Bulls are just waiting for the right offer.
by StephenAA on Jun 26, 2009 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, they're not
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 26, 2009 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Steve Blake and Travis Outlaw isn't a good offer?
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on Jun 27, 2009 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kirk Hinrich,
your starting Chicago Bulls SG!
Vinny Del Negro Offensive Gameplan, Part 1
-When there's less than 30 seconds left in the game, that's me with my hands cupped around my mouth yelling.
"BEN! SHOOT! SHOOOOTTTT!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO ME?!?"
-This segues nicely into my Timeout Management classes - order now!
by Prevenge on Jul 2, 2009 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I'm sure the Bulls with their great defensive mentality and absurdly fast pace will hold teams to under 90 points a game
Vinny Del Negro Offensive Gameplan, Part 1
-When there's less than 30 seconds left in the game, that's me with my hands cupped around my mouth yelling.
"BEN! SHOOT! SHOOOOTTTT!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO ME?!?"
-This segues nicely into my Timeout Management classes - order now!
by Prevenge on Jun 29, 2009 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man, I fail at sarcasm ... sarcasm in half the post = confusion.
Vinny Del Negro Offensive Gameplan, Part 1
-When there's less than 30 seconds left in the game, that's me with my hands cupped around my mouth yelling.
"BEN! SHOOT! SHOOOOTTTT!!! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO ME?!?"
-This segues nicely into my Timeout Management classes - order now!
by Prevenge on Jun 30, 2009 1:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did the Bulls learn how to play defense when we were all sleeping?
Oh wait, I forgot. Kirk Hinrich can defend all 5 positions on the court without any help, and doesn’t look like a bum against the likes of TJ Ford or Jamal Tinsley.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 29, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or gets on the bench with two fouls before breaking a sweat
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 29, 2009 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wouldnt read too much into this
if he comes out and says they want to move him that hurts his leverage with other teams knowing that we are committed to moving him. you have to at least feign that you want to keep him. at least this is what i tell myself so that i can sleep at night.
by Calogero on Jun 26, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When has this stupid organization under Paxson used leverage, or strategy words in pre negoiations?
They do and say exactly what they will do and hint accordingly. They said Kirk will be here, and with Ben they are vague with words like free agency…
Please listen to their words carefully. Paxson often preaches integrity, Paxson is a
Reinsdorf robot. Gar is a Paxson robot. .who survived all cuts after wimpy coach friend (former USC) was fired by Bulls. Paxson still believes in integrity, words and promises, and Reinsdorf believes in the word “integrity” also in a hypocritical way!
Paxson made a promise to Kirk, that he would retire a Bull? I wouldn’t doubt it!
Their words reveal their actions…
man up!
by exult463 on Jun 28, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This team is just drifting, and has no fucking plan whatsoever
Either go for 2010 or try to win now. If the goal is to aim for 2010, let BG go, trade away Hinrich, and actually try to save cap room. If the goal is to win now, use the massive financial advantage this franchise has and trade for players who are on the block for financial reasons. Apparently the goal is to just drift along, win 40-45 games every year, and make a ton of money.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
by Big D on Jun 26, 2009 11:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
We're like what the Clippers always strive to be
They don’t win any games, have no fans, but still profit year after year because they are so damn cheap.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 26, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep. I've about had it.
1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box
by fundamentallysound on Jun 26, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
your sig is great haha
Ben Gordon: Where Cojones Happen. - Gene Wojciechowski
by chibullsfan03 on Jun 26, 2009 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any word from JR on all this mess?
Follow the money trail to find him…
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Jun 26, 2009 12:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He's busy trying to buy a money-losing hockey franchise in Phoenix
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
by Big D on Jun 26, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
real talk
i have serious bowel movements cuz of al;l this crap
I was watching the 1995 Playoffs VS the Magic's and remembered how much I hated Horace Grant. Horace Grant - i hope you burn in bball hell
by Belize on Jun 26, 2009 1:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Has anyone else wondered
who they might have taken if Detroit took Johnson with the 15? I’m terrified to know the answer to this question. Or might they have taken Hoilday/Lawson for trade ammo?
by M 80 on Jun 26, 2009 1:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
For serial.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 26, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Austin Daye.......shudder
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 26, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Adding insult to injury
One thing Johnson doesn’t have is an obvious position on the Bulls. They are already crowded at the forward spots between Luol Deng, John Salmons and Tyrus Thomas.
“That’s up to (coach) Vinny (Del Negro) to figure out how he fits in,” Forman said with a laugh.
From McGraw
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Jun 26, 2009 1:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
lol wow
thats unbelievable
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart
by Jbasic89 on Jun 26, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's just part of the well-honed "process"
by Sports2 on Jun 26, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In Gar's defense
how do you say “That’s up to Vinny to figure out” without laughing. It’s impossible.
by M 80 on Jun 26, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
I couldn't read that comment without laughing :)
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 26, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Blair's obvious position on a team lead by Rose is ???
Johnson is an easy backup to SF or PF, with the team play changing not at all. Blair is only an undersized PF who completely changes the way we have to play, when the whole team is geared to run. Pop the Blair zit already and move on.
The key thing in the OP is that the draft didn’t really matter. A trade would have, but that didn’t happen. Bring on FA and we will see.
by Bill Cartwright's Elbow on Jun 26, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Trade hasn't happened yet
I’m still (perhaps naively) hoping for something big happening in early July.
by kozzer on Jun 26, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where did you see that Blair is slow and can't run?
I missed that somewhere.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 26, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Without verifying his combine numbers.....
wouldn’t common sense say a heavy set guy with bad knees would be slow at running and changing direction. Also, what about conditioning in general?
I’m not saying Gibson was a good pick instead of Blair, in fact I very much dislike the Gibson pick. I just have my doubts if Blair would have been a good fit with a Rose led team.
by Mattchoo on Jun 26, 2009 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
christ, you're lazy
they’re the same speed
that took less time to look up than it is now taking to write this out. putz
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 26, 2009 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Before you respond tyger,
just wanted to apologize for my own remark. Your response was offensive to me, but there was no need for me to respond the way I did…
Nonetheless, I could have looked up the numbers, but I really was more focused on my own idea of what I feel the Bulls are building around Rose. I agreed with Bill Cartwright’s Elbow’s original thoughts. It seems to me that the Bulls are building a team that is going to be quick on defense and also a team that has the athletisism to run the floor consistently and play above the rim. Obviously, Blair is an athlete; he probably could have helped our team when we are getting pushed around down low. I just don’t see him as a long term fit next to a Rose led team.
by Mattchoo on Jun 27, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll just point out that it's offensive to me for someone to jump into a conversation...
…when they have no desire to provide any actual value to the conversation. If the numbers weren’t available, fine. Whatever. But they were available and easily available. There’s no reason for you to jump in if you can’t provide anything relevant.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 27, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah DeJuan Blair is like bringing Shaq to the team
He would have sunk the whole team philosophy of playing basketball at a 7th grade level while Derrick Rose quietly cries in a corner.
The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 26, 2009 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the Bulls...
resign Gordon, than all of this blather is irrelevant. If they don’t, then my Bulls tattoo begins to burn.
by McCabe on Jun 26, 2009 1:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If you draft two forwards
you must be going to trade some forwards.
always a great contribution.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 8:33 AM PST
by hhirb on Jun 26, 2009 2:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Gotta love this
But Blair has bad knees, and someday they might catch up to him. In the meantime, the Spurs got a lottery talent for a second-round salary while the rest of the league was drafting Sam Youngs and Taj Gibsons.
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart
by Jbasic89 on Jun 26, 2009 3:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hollinger, he also adds this
• Hated Chicago’s draft, getting another stringbean 4 in Taj Gibson and an undersized one in James Johnson.
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart
by Jbasic89 on Jun 26, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wetzel from yahoo
thought the bulls were winners
by sillyrussian on Jun 26, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
si gave them a B, espn a B-
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
by Jaina on Jun 26, 2009 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
(for the official "grade" articles)
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
by Jaina on Jun 26, 2009 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A- from NBAdraft.net
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jun 27, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sounds like Bill Simmons?
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith
by tyrus4prez on Jun 26, 2009 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man
I had to watch this a few times to calm down..
But yea man.. allz we need .to do is resign BG
even keep hinrich.. get rid of deng…
and next year grab a pf
i like salmons at sf.. but everyone seems to want him to leave?
Pg- Rose/Hinrich
SG- Gordon/Hinrich
SF-Salmons/Johnson
PF-Tyrus/ GIbson in 2010 some one instead of tyrus or gibson
C-Noah/ Miller (and in 2010 someone else)
by Faizamaze on Jun 26, 2009 5:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Your lineup doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
The Bulls get rid of Deng and have nothing in return? Wow. As much as you appear to hate Deng, he is a valuable asset. He would at the very least get back a 1st rounder and an expiring. Also, what about ASIK? :)
by Mattchoo on Jun 26, 2009 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting stat
Johnsons 3/4 court sprint, was 3.23, same as johnny flynn, an .02 slower than jrue holiday. not bad for a 6’8 260lb guy.
by sillyrussian on Jun 26, 2009 5:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
thats pretty ridiculous
maybe the lebron comparisons at least physically speaking aren’t ridiculous after all
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart
by Jbasic89 on Jun 26, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather he be 260 with 5% fat instead of 12.5%
Keep the quickness, increase the strength. Hiyoooo
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 26, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But it's not like you lose weight
and lose quickness.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jun 26, 2009 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you don't necessarily get quicker either
and he’s already quicker than a lot of guys. if he lost 15 pounds, he’d get quicker than what? one guy? maybe two? he’s already bigger. now just get stronger. be bigger and stronger than everyone else and quicker than half the guys, and you’re doing pretty well.
It’s like Shaq. He probably could have lost 30 pounds and got a fraction quicker and jump a fraction higher, but it wouldn’t have helped that much, and he would have lost his size and strength advantage. Johnson has a size advantage, now he just needs to turn it into a size advantage without losing his relative positioning w/ his quickness.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 26, 2009 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Shaq lost 30lbs
He might not have had so many foot and knee problems over his career. Being in shape improves stamina and reduces injuries especially with big men.
"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ
by Rankdog on Jun 27, 2009 1:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think his fat matters more for his endurance.
When you watch him there, are moments that he blows you away with his quickness, crosssing over guards, taking it coast to coast, etc. At other times he kinda slogs around the court, jacking up 3s and wandering around on defense.
He may not get appreciably quicker, but he’ll be able to use his physical gifts much more if he gets in good shape. Then you could see smarter basketball – more effort on defense, less jacked-up three pointers. The best conditioned players generally make the best decisions because their sole concern is the game, not how tired they are. That effect has been quantified numerous times in other fields – surgical efficacy being the best example – and I think it applies here.
What scares me is the fact that he didn’t even get in shape for workouts. If there’s a time in your life to be cut…that is it. Whether he didn’t care enough, or couldn’t get in shape, it’s not a good sign.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jun 27, 2009 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I watched his Kings and Bobcats workout videos
Johnson has great acceleration in transition. He gets the board and immediately launches out to full speed.
He looks to have trimmed down a little comparing the workout videos to his Wake videos.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jun 26, 2009 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
http://tv.kingsconnect.com/archives/753
by PricanStar on Jun 26, 2009 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdGaajBgQj4
This is the workout with JJ
by PricanStar on Jun 26, 2009 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hah! THe GM's say he gained weight since the college season and that was a partial red flag.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 26, 2009 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I'm just being niave, but
I really think the Bulls have had A LOT of trade talks behind the scenes and have not let out secrets. With the drafting of 2 forwards that are projected to be role players, it seems to me that they feel they have a realistic shot at landing a proven all-star via trade.
I firmly believe a deal with the principals being Deng, Thomas & 2010 1st rounder for Bosh could have been talked about by Toronto and Chicago. If something like that were to go down, the Bulls just need to resign Gordon and call it a day for 09/10 season. The two draft picks fit in real well with a Rose/Gordon/Salmons/Bosh/Noah starting lineup (Hinrich/guard in trade/Johnson/Gibson/Miller bench). We’d be competitive that’s for sure.
by Mattchoo on Jun 26, 2009 7:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
you have that faith? or are you just making conversation?
man up!
by exult463 on Jun 26, 2009 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
(Floyd + Gar) + (Floyd + Taj) = (Gar + Taj)
Paranoid viewpoint might be “payback is a bitch”….
Someone just became Bulls GM, and who did he owe favor to?
Explains some things about how Bulls 26 pick was “known” by Draft Express on Thursday morning, and how Taj went so very high.
But really, it’s not worth the speculation over a #26 pick who is clearly a role player best case scenario. True, Bulls could have traded out of first round and still gotten him AFAIK, but Taj probably will contribute in team need areas nonetheless.
by Cholla on Jun 26, 2009 11:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think this guy has it right:
“Others saw the Bulls trying to rectify the 2006 draft in which they took LaMarcus Aldridge with the second overall pick and traded him to Portland for Tyrus Thomas and Viktor Khryapa.”
Didn’t work out very well.
This is a message to Thomas to either produce, regularly, or be gone. And some insurance. He’s going to get expensive soon. Rookie contract is about up. Play well or they have to trade him.
It’s not like Karly Malone was on the board when #16 came around. They also need guys who can run with Rose.
always a great contribution.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 8:33 AM PST
by hhirb on Jun 27, 2009 6:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Improving depth is important...until we can parlay it for a great 4
I know that not many people love these picks, but at the very least they increase the number of talented players on the court. Is anyone clamoring for Linton Johnson III to return or more of Aaron Gray? I’m not confident about Deng’s rehab – you would think after five months of doing nothing he would be further along than “running and getting up shots.” As it stands, Johnson appears to bring an inside outside presence with the ability to finish on the break. These skills will help this team. Assuming that Deng is healthy, Salmons will be playing more 2 guard in a rotation with Kirk or BG. There will be minutes available at the 3. I don’t like that Gibson is so thin, but he’s a spot player at the 4/5 anyway and there are not a lot of big post presences that will worry me over 82 games.
In a perfect world, Deng and Kirk would be on their way out. Short of that, at least we have some options to talk trades in the event that Amare or Bosh get on the market (though I think if the team actually believed in TT and didn’t quit on him in the playoffs, he still could have been the answer at the four).
by Gene Banks on Jun 27, 2009 6:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yep on Linton Johnson. And do we want Tim Thomas hanging around?
Actually, after the Boston series and the big trade, it’s hard to remember who is on the team beyond seven or eight guys.
always a great contribution.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 8:33 AM PST
by hhirb on Jun 27, 2009 7:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is James Johnson going to play two?
I just noticed that when he was worked out by the Bulls he worked out exclusively with shooting guards.
by robinhood on Jun 27, 2009 1:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If we dont
re-sign Ben Gordon.. we should sign Pargo…
whatcha think?
by Faizamaze on Jun 27, 2009 1:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
As Rose's backup?
Pargo is a PG. He can shoot the three, but I don’t know if you’d want him playing SG on the floor with Rose at the same time even for short stints.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Jun 27, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He played with Chris Paul...
So he can do it for short stints.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jun 27, 2009 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You could be right,
though it looks like Pargo back and trying to get into the Hornets camp anyway. Link.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Jun 27, 2009 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question
So if we cant trade hinrich, we wont be able to sign Gordon right?
What if we somehow like give miller or tim thomas away, and keep hinrich and gordon?
basically sayin like if we keep hinrich and let gordon walk would we be 4 mil under cap?
cuz if we are 4 mil under, we could somehow get rid of tim thomas’ 6 mil contract and then resign Ben, then next year (to my limited knowledge) we would have Brad miller and Jerome james contracts expiring .. about 20 mil right.. so we could sing someone..
I think its worth goin into luxury, to keep the same team we had last year, and just get better..
i mean the minutes would be very confusing.. but i remember last year, we only had a 7 man rotation for a lil…and that was killin em
PG- Rose 35 min / Hinrich 13 min
SG- Gordon 33 min/ Hinrich 15 min
SF- Deng 20 min/ Salmons 28 min plus a lil SG time
PF-Tyrus 25 min/ Johnson 15 min/ Gibson (whatever)
C- Noah 30 min/ Miller 18 min
by Faizamaze on Jun 28, 2009 7:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That makes sense to me...
but the salaries we get back from whoever takes TiT will have to be about the same. I believe we could save about $2 million next year if we make that type of deal.
by 72-10 on Jun 29, 2009 8:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bulls draft
outperforming at the nba level takes something extra…i thought d. wade had it and should have gone higher in draft, same with b. roy…this year i think one guy who might have it is w. ellington…many teams will probably wonder why they passed on the guy, bulls included…
our draft is a major disappointment…we got better with salmons and miller cuz we sorely needed some front line scoring w/ some efficiency and ability to also make assists…d.gooden fell way short. Miller is a stop gap fading fast, and i doubt either draft choice fills the bill…we should be working hard talking to the jazz about boozer, cuz he would make the rest of our front line look better, and a dual sign and trade with gordon going to utah i think would be attractive to jazz.
if we lose gordon or if salmons has to play lots of small forward cuz deng does not come back strong, we could use another shooting guard, more than second rate forwards, hence we missed the boat not taking ellington.
by spacblog on Jun 28, 2009 9:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Like Matt says, they want leverage on Thomas. It's all about the money afterall...
which is the situation with BG and everybody else for that matter.
So they’re going to do a sign and trade with Orlando for Turkoglo and we give them four forwards to replace him and wish ’em luck!
always a great contribution.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 8:33 AM PST
by hhirb on Jun 29, 2009 5:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Turkoglu
always a great contribution.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 8:33 AM PST
by hhirb on Jun 29, 2009 5:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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