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A look at the 26th pick and the 2nd round

[Note by your friendly BullsBlogger, 06/24/09 1:27 PM CDT: Well, someone has to look at this part of the draft, right? For what it's worth (not much), in the couple mock drafts I participated in I selected Sam Young in one, and Chase Budinger (when Young was gone) in another -ed.]

Hopefully it's better than Stephen A. Smith's

Starting premises

1. Here's what I think about this draft. None of the guys we're likely to get at the #16 pick really excite me. Yet, it might have decent value in trade. I hope to god we can package the pick with players to get Bosh, Amare, or hell, even Kevin Love.

2. I don't see any realistic option James Harden or Blake Griffin, who are the only guys I'd be animated to move up to get.

Thus, in my ideal world, we'd be left with the #26 pick after trading the #16 pick.We haven't devoted as much thought about what to do there.

At #26, the best value I see left on most boards is Chase Budinger. He seems like an obvious fit for the Bulls. He's an excellent, floor spacing shooter, and not a terrible distributor. Compared to the other SG prospects we've talked about, he produced similar or better, but with less good teammates around him. He measures out quite well athletically.  So he's the guy. If he's not there, I don't have a problem with Ellington or even Jermaine Taylor. But while Buddinger was probably overrated as a lottery pick, he seems to have fallen further than he should.

Next, I see several players that look worth a shot in the second round, and several reasons to pick up a second rounder to get them.

First, the Bulls need to fill out their roster and will be under the gun financially. Second rounders are the cheapest way to fill out your roster.

Second, there are several guys there who fit the profile for NBA success. My prime target would be Jeff Pendergraph. If you compare his size and athleticism to successful NBA players, he compares very well to guys like Okafor, Horford, and even Amare. That is, he's not as good as Amare, but he's definitely got and NBA body. Second, he's been talked about up and down as a tireless worker. He seems like the prototype 2nd round steal, and would be at a need position. Trade a future 2nd and get him. We'll need depth up front.

If, for some reason, we don't have the #26 pick, Danny Green and Jermaine Taylor both look like they may be there in the second round, and both look like they've got NBA bodies, athleticism, and skills. Again, the cost is very low, and, we need to fill the roster, and they appear to have (for second round picks) relatively good profiles.

So in summary, this might be a weak draft, but I see particular guys that are worth going and taking a flyer on, given that the cost of doing so is low.

If we come out of tomorrow night with

1. A trade of #16 + players for a better frontcourt

2. Buddinger to space the floor in a few minutes

3. A decent chance to make it cheapo like Pendergraph

So that's my thinking on what a successful (in somewhat realistic terms) draft would look like. Now if we can trade Lebrond for #26, I'm all for that too.

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Comments

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Good post

One more name I like at #26 is who tyger mentioned: Nick Calathes. Whenever I watch him it doesn’t seem like he’s doing anything, but at the end of the day he’s got 15 points, 6 assists, 5 boards. He’s a good passer, shoots the 3 well, and at 6’6" he can play either position, so I think it’s a good fit (and complement) to Rose.

What I like most is he’s playing in Greece this year. That allows us to keep Hinrich on board for another year if we want without risking limiting a young guy’s minutes. If we think Calathes is ready to play in the NBA next year, we’ll start him on his rookie contract then. If not, he can keep developing and we hold his rights.

by YaoPau on Jun 24, 2009 2:00 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

ill be stunned

if calathes is ever ready to play in the nba; i dont think he’s athletic enough

by Calogero on Jun 24, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Amen x 10.

What do I need to show fire for? I'm not a dragon. - Lou Pinella

by smash! on Jun 24, 2009 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

C'mon smash

we all know you’ve got mad beef with Calathes. Any time I see Calathes mentioned on here you’re all over it just bashing the hell out him. Opposite goes for Toney Douglas.

I personally like both players. For the most part I think David Thorpe from ESPN.com is a smart guy and he’s very, very high on Calathes. Of course, he’s a Gator homer so we need to take that with a grain of salt. But I see Calathes as a taller version of Luke Ridnour. Not bad for pick 26.

In regards to the post I definitely agree with the thinking — I’m pretty high on Budinger in our system and Pendergraph as well. This is all predecated on us getting value for the 16 pick + Tyrus and whoever else (Deng? Hinrich? Both?)

by Rose Colored Goggles on Jun 24, 2009 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just agreed with Calogero, what's the big deal?

What do I need to show fire for? I'm not a dragon. - Lou Pinella

by smash! on Jun 24, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No big deal

I just know you don’t like Calathes so I was busting your balls a little. No offense man, I just respectfully disagree with your opinion on Calathes, that’s all.

by Rose Colored Goggles on Jun 24, 2009 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

if Calethas is able to match up physically in the NBA

than I think he will be a good player. I like his passing skill and basketball IQ. He has a lot of things to like about his game. I’d prefer him over Toney Douglas, if the decision were between the 2.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 24, 2009 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm with you

I like his size, it’s his quickness I’m worried about. Then again if a John Stockton + Jeff Hornacek back court can make it to the Finals twice in a row…

Eh I’m still a little concerned — it was a different game then.

by Rose Colored Goggles on Jun 24, 2009 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's actually his mental make-up that makes me think he won't make it in the NBA

What do I need to show fire for? I'm not a dragon. - Lou Pinella

by smash! on Jun 24, 2009 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

please elaborate

what do you know of Calathes’ mental make-up? I haven’t heard one word about this guy’s character or toughness being sub par.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 24, 2009 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not even talking about the gambling rumors or fights with Donovan...

But I actually think he might just stay in Greece. He has dual citizenship, his brother plays there… people seem to think this is his life’s goal and that he doesn’t have much motivation to come back to the NBA… that he didn’t fit in on his college team off the court…

Why else would you leave a basketball powerhouse as a sophmore, where you have the keys to the car and you’re in a conference where you can def make some noise next year if your goal is to make it in the NBA?

What do I need to show fire for? I'm not a dragon. - Lou Pinella

by smash! on Jun 25, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

because you can make millions playing in Greece

and get the same or better basketball training. He signed a contract that makes it easy for him to come over in 2 years, if he chooses to do so. I don’t know if he will or not, but I’d rather draft him than have the Bulls sell their pick.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 25, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's getting 1m a year in Greece... if he stayed in the NCAA and went in the lottery next year...

in a draft that wont be so PG heavy, he could make much more.

What do I need to show fire for? I'm not a dragon. - Lou Pinella

by smash! on Jun 25, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did the Bulls work out Calathes?

What do I need to show fire for? I'm not a dragon. - Lou Pinella

by smash! on Jun 24, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i def agree about pendergraph

guy was a solid player in college, a very efficient scorer, and measured out well both in height, wingspan, and athleticism. im not as sold on buddinger; there’s no denying he’s athletic, but he doesn’t use it on the court particularly well— which was evidenced by the big gap in his two step vertical jump and no step vertical. he was a freakish volleyball player and i think his athleticism transfers more to the volleyball court than the bball court.

by Calogero on Jun 24, 2009 2:16 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think the likelihood he's a great player is low, but the likelihood he's a useful player is high

Chase that is. How could he be worse than Eric Piatkowski? And Pike played a million years in the league. Every team can use a guy who can shoot the lights out.

Re: Calathes, I just don’t know much about him nor can I really compare him to anyone.

by Sports2 on Jun 24, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow, an eric piatkowski comparison

i don’t think chase will be putting that on his resume

by Calogero on Jun 24, 2009 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No one should be ashamed to be compared to a guy who had a 14 year NBA career

And, interestingly enough, only shot 35.6% from the college 3.

So yeah, I think the comparison is both apt and flattering if you have the proper perspective on what’s likely available at the 26th pick.

by Sports2 on Jun 24, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

fair enough

i realize this draft is weak, so at 26 you are looking at probably a high second rounder in most years. if you can find a guy who can contribute at all at 26 that’s really all you can ask for.

by Calogero on Jun 24, 2009 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i also like

my “lights out” shooters to shoot better than 39% from the college 3.

by Calogero on Jun 24, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jeff Pendergraph sounds unspectacular solid! Nice find for a good 2nd round pick!

As oppose to our 1st round 2006 lottery pick who was classified as spectacularly raw!

I’d take some solid food (Blair) in this draft, and leave the sushi (Mullens) for another day…

man up!

by exult463 on Jun 24, 2009 2:33 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Who is this front court help?

I’m thinking a big PF with a post up game when the shots aren’t falling for all the shooters. Right now we have absolutely nobody doing that.

always a great contribution.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 17, 2009 8:33 AM PST

by hhirb on Jun 24, 2009 3:45 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Well, someone has to look at this part of the draft, right?

I think a lot of threads on other posts on BAB have spun off into numerous chats about the 26th pick in the draft. This is a solid post, but I think we can add some more names to the list if we’re really going to talk about what’s potentially available at 26. Then again, if the Bulls have their way, they will only have one 1st rounder so maybe it’s a waste of time.

I do think the 1st pick in the 2nd round is almost as valuable as any pick in this particular draft…

What do I need to show fire for? I'm not a dragon. - Lou Pinella

by smash! on Jun 24, 2009 3:54 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Curious what your analysis of him is?

What do I need to show fire for? I'm not a dragon. - Lou Pinella

by smash! on Jun 24, 2009 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's not athletic enough. He's fast, but he's small and he's a crummy leaper.

"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton

by fundamentallysound on Jun 24, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's not unathletic at all...

so that’s a bad analysis. And compared the other other PGs in this draft, he’s not small. He does not have great hops, so you’re 1 for 3.

What do I need to show fire for? I'm not a dragon. - Lou Pinella

by smash! on Jun 24, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"not athletic enough" /= unathletic

There are degrees of athleticism.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jun 24, 2009 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

While you're completely right, I would say he's actually extremely athletic, though.

The only downside to his physical attributes is that he isn’t an outstanding leaper, but “not a fantastic leaper” /= “brad miller’s vertical”. His combine measurements and speed/agility/strength stats were off the charts and blew the other top rated point guards away.

by TrueCubbie on Jun 24, 2009 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brad Miller isn't the right comparison

The right comparison is to compare him to other guards

For guards, leaping is important, and his scores there were pretty far outside what other NBA guards do.

At the same time, there are plenty of small guys like him that do well in speed, agility and strength that can’t play in the nba.
Kirk Penny, Troy Bell Matt Santangelo, Andre Barrett, Ricky Minard, Ryan Carroll, etc…

Athleticism is important, but you need the right skillset for your body too. And he doesn’t seem to have it.

by Sports2 on Jun 24, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Uh, he wasn't comparing him to Brad Miller...

Brad Miller can’t jump at all so I think he was just saying, in the same format that Tyger did, that just because one doesn’t have mad hops, that doesn’t mean one can’t jump over a sheet of paper… a la Brad Miller.

What do I need to show fire for? I'm not a dragon. - Lou Pinella

by smash! on Jun 24, 2009 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I said he's not athletic enough. Jumping is important for guards, and he's not very big.

He’s middling in height, reach, wingspan for guys projected to be drafted as PGs and he’s one of the worst leapers in the group, so he’s going to play small.

That’s what I meant.

"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton

by fundamentallysound on Jun 24, 2009 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He is small if you're talking about using him as a SG though...

as small as BG, but yes, still small. I just see him as a good PG/SG backup.

What do I need to show fire for? I'm not a dragon. - Lou Pinella

by smash! on Jun 24, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you mean as a SG?

TD will not be BG. We’re talking about a backup here… late first, maybe early second round role player.

What do I need to show fire for? I'm not a dragon. - Lou Pinella

by smash! on Jun 24, 2009 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, he's definitely not unathletic...

I don’t think the Bulls will be able to get him though. Supposedly Joe Dumars is desperately trying to trade into the low 20’s to get Douglas.

by TrueCubbie on Jun 24, 2009 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Upside, I guess, would be a guy like Pargo

Downsides:

  • SG in a PG body
  • Below average leaping, which leads to not being a great finisher
  • Seems like an iffy ball handler even for a SG.

Put that together and he just doesn’t really look like the kind of guy that often succeeds in the NBA.

by Sports2 on Jun 24, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm repeating myself so people are going to start yelling at me, but...

I have a hard time not answering people when they read draft xpress profiles and think they know what’s up. Not saying that you did, but if you watched him play at all, you wouldn’t say he was an iffy ball handler, and the guy above wouldn’t say he’s unathletic. Those two things are just flat out not true. And like I said before, he’s def not perfect, but I like him as a late pick to back up both the point and sg position- not as a future all-star. I don’t have much time right now, but my thoughts on Douglas- both his up and downside- are here if you care.

What do I need to show fire for? I'm not a dragon. - Lou Pinella

by smash! on Jun 24, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he's not a good jumper, but he's quick.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jun 24, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not really anything like Pargo...

he would complement Rose nicely because he can shoot the lights out and play lock-down defense with the best of them. He’s kind of the Ying to Rose’s Yang- which would be nice for 7-10 min a game at PG, and 7-10 min a game at SG. But like I just said above, I don’t think he’s going to be there at 26 anymore.

by TrueCubbie on Jun 24, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No! Not mad at all. Like I said, this is a good post...

it just isn’t totally about the 26th pick… it’s about Sports2’s ideal draft day scenario, right? I just think we can have a separate thread for prospects at 26. Besides TD, there are 5-6 I like or have heard mentioned alot that weren’t mentioned above… and since YFBB posted this as somewhat of an official “26th pick” post on the main chunk of the side, just saying there are more guys to talk about.

What do I need to show fire for? I'm not a dragon. - Lou Pinella

by smash! on Jun 24, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No one is stopping you from making a Toney Douglas fanpost or 11

That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT

by Ozzie Montana on Jun 24, 2009 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, already did that… one is enough:) And I would get into the other guys I want to talk about potentially going at 26 but I’m swamped this week and don’t have much time on my hands.

What do I need to show fire for? I'm not a dragon. - Lou Pinella

by smash! on Jun 24, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd probably trade the #26 pick for #33 and #38 from the Blazers

Take Pendergraph and Summers or Ellington and be happier than a pig in shit.

by Sports2 on Jun 24, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Swap Summers / Ellington for Danny Green and I'm sold.

"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton

by fundamentallysound on Jun 24, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So... just keep the 26th pick?

=P

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jun 24, 2009 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ah, there's my fellow Danny Green supporter

We’ve been repping him for about 2 weeks on here. I’m telling everyone right now, a lot of teams that pick in the late first or early second round are going to regret passing on him.

by Rose Colored Goggles on Jun 24, 2009 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd love to have 3 or 4 picks in the second round of this draft.

Assure you can bring some guys, send them to summer league, bring them to training camp, and then dump if you don’t like them. But you get first dibs.

Toney Douglas, Jr.
Paul Harris
Josh Heytvelt
Luke Harangody
Rodrigue Beaubois

Unfortunately, for every trade I’ve looked at to either move up in the draft or to trade a player, the other team doesn’t have a 2nd-rounder to throw in.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jun 24, 2009 4:12 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The second rounders always start flying on draft night anyway. Just offer a future second or something

Harangody’s going back to Notre Dame, which I thought was a little surprising because he tested out much better than expected.

Heytvelt is another guy I’d consider strongly if we had a second rounder, except he sometimes makes Mullins look hyper-motivated. Still, if the cost is low, I wouldn’t say no.

by Sports2 on Jun 24, 2009 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like I said. Summer league, training camp, you get a better feel. Yay for non-guaranteed contracts!

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jun 24, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Doh... I totally forgot to mention DaJuan Summers

Mostly on the basis that I figured he’ll go in the first round. But if he slips, the guy has really elite level tools. Sort of a James Johnson light.

by Sports2 on Jun 24, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah I like Summers too based on potential

but his utter lack of production in 3 years of pretty heavy minutes at Georgetown really worry me. The athletic tools are there, but is he mentally there?

by Rose Colored Goggles on Jun 24, 2009 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he's been a crap rebounder in college, which is a pretty big red flag

"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton

by fundamentallysound on Jun 24, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like those players, but I'd like to add another name... Dionte Christmas

Since he plays for Temple in the A-10, nobody pays much attention to him (and, as a SLU grad, I admit the A-10 isn’t a top-tier conference). For a second round pick, he actually has a shot at making it, as he can score in a number of ways and has decent size for a shooting guard (6’5.5" with shoes, 6’9" wingspan). He’s not the most exciting athlete (poor bench press score, about average for the rest), but for a second-rounder in a weak draft, he could be a serviceable role player, adding points off the bench and holding his own (or at least not getting lit up) on D.

by T-Boogie on Jun 24, 2009 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

who knows about calathes, but i do think both will go in the first.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jun 24, 2009 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does anyone know much about Omri Casspi?

What do I need to show fire for? I'm not a dragon. - Lou Pinella

by smash! on Jun 24, 2009 4:52 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Brockman

He’s a rebounder, and we need that more than anything else. He’s undersized but so is Blair. Brockman will play in the NBA.

by nateroth on Jun 24, 2009 5:10 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I like Brockman

always have from his time in college, but 26 might be a reach

by JSlakov on Jun 24, 2009 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why do people still say Harden isn't athletic enough?

Is it his 37" vertical that screws people up?
Or is it the quick if not exceptional agility drill?
Or the very good sprint? (in which he surpassed the “athletic freak” Terrence Williams in the latter two)
Or is it the fact that he was only out-benchpressed by PF’s w/ last names like Griffin, Hansbrough, Blair?

Harden can create his own shot very well. He finishes well around the rim. Maybe he just doesn’t think he has to slam dunk everything. I just wish people could re-evaluate their talking points once they learn facts that contradict them?

/rant that belongs somewhere else.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jun 24, 2009 10:22 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The only thing I can think of is that he's kinda chunky (10.1% body fat)

and that his game is more predicated on craftiness than an explosive first step. But yeah, I don’t really get it either. It’s the same thing that happened with Roy — only Roy was a bit better athlete than Harden.

"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton

by fundamentallysound on Jun 24, 2009 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How, by having a 3" higher vertical? Meh.

Harden is slightly faster and quicker. Push.

Harden actually has a 2" higher reach which means Roy can only get 1" higher than him when they jump.

And Harden out-bench pressed the world, and I consider strength an “athletic ability”, but now I’m just being dumb.

But I agree, it’s because he doesn’t “run” to the rim. He just glides there. I think he’ll fool a lot of people on a faster team and/or a pro coach.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jun 24, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, you're right, I was sort of lazy by calling Roy more athletic. I think he's more explosive

— evidence being the higher vertical and from watching him Roy has a much quicker first step than Harden it appears, but since there’s no real measurement of first step speed (yet), I’ll just say that I think Roy was slightly more explosive, but that overall in terms of total athleticism it’s probably a bit of a push, as you said.

"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton

by fundamentallysound on Jun 24, 2009 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd honestly give up any player and pick other than Noah and Rose to get Harden in this draft.

I think he’ll be a combination of Brandon Roy & Manu Ginobili. Maybe not quiiiiiite as good as either one of them, but some sort of combination of their skills. I really do. If Brandon Roy is athletic enough to be as good as he is, then so his James Harden.

(I still think Tyrus and Deng are awesome, but I’d give them up to have Harden, Rose and Noah.)

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jun 24, 2009 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't trade Tyrus AND Deng

But if we could give up some package of players and picks to move into the 3rd or 4th spot I would have to consider it. I do like Harden quite a bit. In fact, in one of my dumber more biased moments I picked ASU to make it to the Elite 8 in my bracket this year because of him. I had 28 of 32 games right in the first round but was ruined after that due to my affinity for Harden.

Maybe something to OKC like Hinrich, Tyrus, 16 and 26 for Nick Collison, Earl Watson and 3. I don’t know if the Thunder would do that, but the salaries work. They can actually take back more so if you want to knock out Collison or Watson to sweeten it for the Thunder that’s fine.

I actually think that would work pretty well (assuming both players came over):

PG: Rose, Watson
SG: Harden, Salmons
SF: Deng, Salmons
PF: Collison, TiT
C: Noah, Miller

On second thought that team wins 35 games in 2009-2010. But maybe better next year (and if we re-sign Gordon by going into luxury tax???). Probably not my best trade idea, but I was trying to figure out a way to get Harden (ie it’s not happening).

by Rose Colored Goggles on Jun 24, 2009 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that team probably wins more than 35 games next year, especially on the assumption

that Harden’s going to be a good player. Collison is probably a bit better than Tyrus overall, despite being less exciting and explosive, so I think losing Tyrus is a bit of a wash. Losing Hinrich and BG both hurts, but again, we’re operating under the assumption that Harden is going to be really freakin’ good (otherwise making this deal makes no sense), so I think it’s pretty safe to assume that this team wins at least as many games as last year and probably more.

"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton

by fundamentallysound on Jun 24, 2009 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, my assumption was that

Harden would be about as good as Roy was his rookie year (14-15 ppg, 5 asst, 4 rbs) and that plus Earl Watkins a big drop-off from BG and Hinrich. I think that team wins more like 45-50 games once Harden matures a little, but by doing that trade we’re getting a LOT younger.

by Rose Colored Goggles on Jun 24, 2009 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

fair point. I just think Rose gets better, Deng comes back at 100%, and Collison is a bit of

an upgrade over Tyrus, it makes it seem like losing Hinrich and Gordon would be less important. It’ll still hurt, but I think this team would be good for at least 40 wins.

1. Cut a hole in a box
2. Put your Kirk in that box
3. Make some team open that box

by fundamentallysound on Jun 25, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The more I think about it

the more resigned to the fact that the Bulls are going to not make any moves, draft Henderson at #16 and some scrub at #26 and than call it a day. I think the day will be a failure if Hinrich is still on the Bulls. Alas, I can already see Gar talking about Henderson’s potential and the process of going about resigning Gordon, all culminating in Gordon walking and the Bulls making no moves – just like last year.

The Bulls simply lack creativity in the front office. And I don’t believe they are ready to step up and make big moves. I hope that I’m wrong. But it seems to me the Bulls are so terrified of losing any trade that they miss out on opportunities all around them.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 25, 2009 1:06 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Add to it the fact that Gar definitely doesn’t want to blow is FIRST trade and I think we could possibly be in for a boring night. I really hope not though. In my honest opinion, I think there’s about a 30% chance that we make a semi-big trade tonight. If you included the possibility of just trading our picks to move up or aquiring a 2nd round pick, I’d say the trade liklihood is 50-50.

by Rose Colored Goggles on Jun 25, 2009 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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