Jefferson to Spurs (UPDATE: Bucks flip Oberto for Amir Johnson)
Update: Bucks flip Oberto for Amir Johnson. More cap room for the Pistons -ed.]
The Spurs are interested, and are offering Bowen, Kurt Thomas, and Oberto. I'm sure Skiles would love their grittiness!
4 months ago
Big D
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Chaed Ford just commented on this in his chat:
Chad Ford
The trade is Richard Jefferson to the Spurs for Bruce Bowen, Fabricio Oberto and Kurt Thomas … more coming in just a second. Deal is agreed to in principle with a trade call coming later today
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/27094
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith
by tyrus4prez on Jun 23, 2009 12:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
the deal went through
Ben Gordon: Where Cojones Happen. - Gene Wojciechowski
by chibullsfan03 on Jun 23, 2009 12:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
For a team that didn't have much to begin with
trading Yi for Jefferson, then trading Jefferson for expiring contracts hurts almost as much as using last year’s 1st on Joe Alexander…
by YaoPau on Jun 23, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know - I kind of think of dumping Yi as a positive.
Of course, if you go back to the point where they used a pretty good draft pick on him in the first place….
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
by wjb1492 on Jun 23, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah that wasn't clear
Yi sucks. But he had trade value at the time.
by YaoPau on Jun 23, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Skiles and RJ must definitely not gotten along, cuz that’s a terrible trade for the Bucks.
I mean I know Oberto and Bowen are at least partially unguaranteed, so there’s cost savings, but I certainly think they could ahve gotten something more for RJ besides two dinosaurs (Thomas and Bowen) and an Argentine who is nipping on prehistoricness…..
I know the money end, but think this was too quick for them. I would think RJ could have yielded something and a pick.
Skiles is already starting to base his team based on lesser talents who play his system….let the short term gain long term failures begin!
Terrible trade. Poor Bucks.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
RJ wasn't that good last year
and hasn’t been good 2 of the last 3 years. Getting expiring contracts for him should be seen as a great trade especially considering talk of the Bucks really struggling financially.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jun 23, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah, and the Bucks need space under the tax threshold if they want to bring back Sessions and/or Villanueva
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jun 23, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
this is better than they could do later this season. Some partially guaranteed contracts mean immediate savings. Skiles always liked Jefferson, he was pushing for him when Bulls coach too.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 23, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not just expiring contracts
“The Bucks expect to save $6.35 million next season "
That’s immediate savings.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 23, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he liked him
Until he met him….cuz they’ve wanted to trade him pretty quickly after acquiring him…
I just think there was more to be had, and Milwaukee ain’t gonna draw anyone unless they can prove to be a winner, which they seem farther away from now.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm fine with the idea of trading him
But just think they could have had more.
I mean Charlie V is someone I didn’t even think when this trade happened, so if they did this to get him and don’t dramatically overpay, maybe it’s ok….
I just don’t buy them being a big free agent draw when all the other teams around them are vying for money, I don’t think the free agent to be is going to stop and say, wait, why not Milwaukee….
Let’s see they’ve got Skiles who wore out his welcome in Chicago, and Phx and has Jason Kidd whom all the superstars seem to love hate him, and now RJ was traded for crap, meanwhile Gadzuric had a career couple of games…..woo.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They're not trying to attract free agents, just resign their own
This team has no money and can’t pay the tax, they have to RFAs in Villanueva and Sessions who are both likely better than RJ, so clearing room for both of them is a definite win situation. If they are just making this move to clear money, they shouldn’t want anything more back. Plus, Jefferson’s a league average player at best due $13M next season. Again, they were lucky to get non-guaranteed deals in return without having to give up draft picks or something as well.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jun 23, 2009 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I wonder though because the rumors on Sessions elsewhere have been high for a while…..
And while Charlie V has the talent, I don’t know if he and Redd are what Skiles has in mind.
I agree they need to save money, but they also have little fans…..RJ’s a better “league avg” guy than Bogut……and worth probably more in the free market. He can get explosive at times as a scorer…..
He’s overpaid, but off the books in 2 years, and he’s not a bad player at all, just making about $4-5M too high…..plus it seems with him every eh ok year bounces back wtih a good year.
It’s a no brainer for the Spurs to make this trade….a puzzler for the Bucks.
I am fine with the idea to trade him, but certainly they cuold have received something in return, and I certainly don’t think they’d mind trading that #10 pick in the process if that’s what would net something…
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The rumors have been high on Sessions leaving only because of the money situation.
Fix the money situation, lose the rumors. This trade makes all types of sense for Milwaukee. If they can somehow flip Redd into younger players or picks, and end up keeping both Charlie V and Sessions, they’ve effectively rebuilt on the fly. They have a defensive stopper in Mbah a Moute (not looking that one up, so you’ll have to pardon the misspelling), a potentially dominant center in Bogut (if he can stay healthy), a scoring big in Charlie V, and a more-than-adequate PG in Sessions. Add a few pieces, and you’re looking at Portland-East.
by arjoseph on Jun 24, 2009 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oH
I think they are far from a Portland East, but then again I don’t think highly of Bogut at all. He’s an adequate C if healthy in an inadequate C era…
Villanueva is good and might come relatively inexpensive, if he comes pricey he might not be good, but he’s good.
Sessions is nice, Redd is good, overpaid, a bit overrated, but good.
If they can move Redd, sure.
I think it would be better for them to move Redd for Wallace and some Cleveland picks maybe the next few years. Tank this year, get the #1 (or a good chance) and really rebuild.
I don’t think this was the best offer they could get for RJ, though perhaps Amir Johnson in a few years could live up to his pre-this year blog hype…. I woudn’t count on that all that much since Detroit after planting the talk of his greatness seemed so eager to deal him….after trying to extend his role….
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 24, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How did Ben Wallace on a Skiles coached team work out last time?
Do you hate the Bucks?
I think it would be better for them to move Redd for Wallace and some Cleveland picks maybe the next few years.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jun 24, 2009 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
heard reports that Ben Wallace may retire
and if not, than this would certainly push him to it.
by Basketball Smurf on Jun 24, 2009 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ben Wallace
Was done 3 years ago… I only say they should trade for him to really wave the white flag….and do a real rebuild.
Half assed rebuilds like this (trade RJ for complete crap under his value) isn’t the way to do it.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 24, 2009 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the Bucks
But think if they tank the year and save some $$ in the process they could actually rebuild. I don’t have enough faith in their current talent to stay healthy and be enough to slowly rebuild. It seems unless they get lucky in the draft, they’ll be a perpetual 32-36 win team….they can’t draw a big name free agent (not with what they’ve added to Michael Redd the last 6 yrs) they have less fans than ever.
I think the talent they have is too good to be dreadful (20 win team) but much too bad to be halfway decent.
Trading Redd for Wallace and some picks allows them to buy out Wallace, further tank this year, get possibly a #1-#3 pick next year and use that string of good luck to keep what they have and rebuild much more quickly.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 24, 2009 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its not terrible...
When you consider the amount of money they saved…look at how overpaying the one dimensional Michael Redd has hurt this team…
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jun 23, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They're still paying for him though
This is a money saver, not a money making trade….and that’s what the Bucks really need to do.
I don’t see any net improvement from this club and think less and less fans will go than ever….
3 years ago sure Bowen could fit in nice (presuming Bogut and Redd were healthy) but he fell fast….
I just think it’s bad, the Bucks are already an afterthought in Milwaukee….perhaps they’ll be relocating out of Milwaukee….that’s sad.
I don’t disagree trading RJ, just trading for what they got…..that’st he problem.
Any cap savings ain’t likely to bring any game changers to a losing organization…
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You really think RJ would help put butts in the seats? Or help them win more than a couple extra games
than they will win without him?
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jun 23, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he does
Certainly help them win a few more games than not having him…..
I don’t know about the butts in seats, but if they lose 5-10 MORE games or any MORE games after years of pretty much being terrible, they’re done.
Nobody in Milwaukee follows the Bucks…..NOBODY.
It’s a shame as the Bradley Center’s not a bad gym, is in a great location and well is nice for this former Marquette-er.
I don’t think the Bucks can afford to lose more or even equal last years 48 loss pace….
This move won’t make them better and won’t make them drastically worse, but that’s the problem, they need to do one or the other, or will forever be in the bottom average but not bottom….which barring a lucky draft ain’t gonna help them much.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I used to live in Milwaukee, and Marquette basketball and Admirals (minor league) hockey got more attention.
Bucks are nothing compared to Packers and Brewers in Milwaukee for public attention.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jun 23, 2009 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I know that now
But I was in Milwaukee during the last Bucks almost regime and they got a lot more attention then and the Brewers and Marquette got nothing….that wasn’t all that long ago (6-7 yrs)…
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2009 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
I’ve never been a big RJ fan at all….but he is more talented than just a dollar save at least for another year or two.
A dollar save on a team that’s set without him, sure….but a dollar save on a Bucks team that hasn’t really proven it can draft all that well (Bogut, Alexander)…..is a problem.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The team's not going anywhere in the standings, not attracting fans, and not making money
Why waste $29M on an average player? He’s not that good and has a big contract that runs through 2010, they weren’t going to get much more than they got w/out having to take back money, which they can’t afford to do. This deal is such an obvious win for the Bucks, even if they did lose a useful player for little usable talent in return.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jun 23, 2009 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they
win a few more games they can afford to do a few more things.
They aren’t going to drop precipitously because of this move, but likely aren’t going to get better either….
And RJ while making too much $$ ain’t half bad either…..he’s an average starter to ever slightly better than average starter…..who has been better in stretches than that in the past.
I think there could have been more for him as this year progressed…..or at least they could have done is get a pick in this deal, even if it’s low or next year’s 1st…
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2009 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not that difficult, they got exactly what they wanted, reduced commitment in salary
Considering how difficult it’s going to be for any team to shed salary this off season, because lots of teams want to do the same and few are wiling to take salary on, they must be ecstatic right now. Jefferson’s not that good and his contract makes him even less appealing as a trade chip, they weren’t going to get much more for him to make it worth passing on this deal.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jun 23, 2009 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still think
If healthy though a Redd-Jefferson-Bogut trio with a resigned Charlie V might and seems to be a playoff team pretty easily. Sure Sessions has to go, but they could have been something….and then if that didn’t work, they could more easily deal Redd and RJ next year when they have the real value as expiring’s mid year.
I don’t think this savings will help them sign anyone in 2010…..and I don’t think this will do anything but hurt their chances.
RJ and Redd’s big salaries might be viable trade chips in 2 years, and unlike some of those similar guys this year, those 2 can and presumably will still be able to play….
The RJ-Redd-Bogut and Charlie V experiment really never had time to blossom because of injuries to Bogut and Redd….and that’s a shame, cuz that was some talent….
RJ’s not a 1st or 2nd man on a team, but he’s a solid 4 man or 3 man on a playoff team.
The Bucks desperately should be shooting for teh playoffs this year….their fanbase is dwindling fast…
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they make the playoffs
They could build to make more fans for the future.
This was a short term, one sided, very business oriented crap move. Saved a GM a job cuz he showed he could cut expenses, won’t help in the foreseeable future unless Bogut and Redd again go down again and they fall to the #1-3 picks. I don’t think that roster is bad enough to fall that far without RJ though….
I do agree that he makes too much $$, just think there’s more out there.
Hell I might have even considered looking to the Clippers for Baron Davis….dangling RJ and Sessions and the #10 pick and next year’s top 7 protected pick or something….
There’s better deals they could have done…
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Bucks GM is moving
contracts he didn’t sign. He’s doing a great job so far as I didn’t think Jefferson really had a lot of takers around the league. He’s a nice player, but you gotta pray he gets calls so his McFlopalot routine doesn’t end up as poor offensive plays where he just turns the ball over.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jun 23, 2009 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again
I’ll just have to disagree because I think ultimately a
- Pick/Ridnour PG duo
Redd
Jefferson/Mbah A Moute
Villaneuva
Bogut
Is a solid playoff team if healthy. If not, I think the value of RJ mid 2010 is much more than the wiggle room they may set up for 2010 free agency….cuz they’ll save the $$ but I doubt any player will sniff Milwaukee except as a last resort.
I also think showing the “progress” by making the playoffs, then having $32M in expiring deals to possibly deal because both of them can actually play for 2011 money might be nice.
They make the playoffs next year and they then make the move if the playoffs aren’t in reach the following year to get them better.
As it stands I think they’ll be stuck in a similar 32-38 win season and stuck in the #9-#12 picks, which is a hard spot to get a really good player. Obviously far from impossible as there’s a plethora that turned out well, but it’s just tougher spot than 1-6 would be….
Of course if they do this trade, then as others suggested fire sell Redd for Wallace, buy out Wallace, tank and get the #1, they’ll be looking great.
Knowing what we know though and knowing that there’s nobody watching in Milwaukee, I feel bad for their loyal fans.
I mean the Brewers now are finally selling out and a fun place to go….Milwaukee can get decent draws when their teams do well (see Marquette too which finally started winning).
You can get Bucks tix for next to nothing, and I think they even had a woman free day Men’s tix for like $20 promotion against a good team last year (I’m on their email blast list as I like to see the Bucks v Bulls games in Milwaukee and have friends out there).
I love that city and feel bad for their NBA fans…..
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Supposed to read
This years number 10 pick and Ridnour splitting the point with the rest of those pieces….
Sorry.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are really underrating Sessions.
He is already the best point guard on that roster in his second season…part of the reason for making this move was to resign him…He has a career PER of 17.4, while I am not a stat guy like others on here, that number combined with what I have seen on the court, and I feel like Sessions is a solid starter in this league…
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jun 23, 2009 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Sessions
I don’t know if Skiles quite does as he’s been thrown around a little bit and hasn’t been thought of as high as Charlie V.
I think with this draft projected to be a good draft only insomuch as PG depth, and the fact that RJ-Redd-Bogut are getting towards or in prime, that this was the time to go for the playoff push….then make the tweaking trade after 2010 unloading one or both of them and have a rebirth.
Right now this won’t really set them back, but won’t help them progress either….
I agree that Sessions is a starter in this league, but of the 2 I’d choose Villanueva (harder to replace with his O skills and size).
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2009 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But, they couldn't bring back Charlie V w/out this deal w/out going into the tax
which they wouldn’t be able to afford to do. 2 home playoff games, at best, are not worth the gamble they’d be taking by keeping Jefferson. Your suggestion to trade for Baron Davis demonstrates you keep missing the obvious point…the Bucks needed to shed salary. To trade Sessions, they’d have to resign him, which means they’d likely waste all their room under the tax threshold so they’d lose Villanueva still which would mean now they have a better PG but are out a SF and PF.
As Hollinger wrote in his review of the trade, the Bucks have essentially traded Sessions and Villanueva for RJ. If that were an actual trade conducted by 2 teams, we’d all be killing the team that gave up Sessions and Villanueva for RJ. It’s all about the money here, don’t lose sight of how important that is.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Jun 23, 2009 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How much do you think he's going to make?
They had what about $7M as a starting point with the max 10% options should they want to go that year. I don’t see Villaneuva getting that. That would put them at the luxury tax for waht appears to be a playoff team when healthy (and could possibly have been a good playoff team when healthy at least from what I think)….
I mean they could offer him a 6 yr $50-54M deal….and I would think that’s as good as he’d get and then some in the open market right now….
They just need to get healthy….
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do love that
Malik Allen, a guy who without Skiles would probably be out of the league, has a player option for this upcoming year….
Good ol Skiles….
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point on the Sessions piece
I was just typing what I thought…
Though again I think something may have worked elsewhere and perhaps Baron could have been had…..or if Sessions was the guy perhaps Zach Randolph could be had as Randolph is still a better talent than RJ, but not needed in LAC….
And that’s just off me head, but I do agree with your points above.
I just think this is a bad move and think yes 2 playoff games at least is good because they can begin actually building up a marketing plan…
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2009 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They would have kept 1 of them though....
And been more than fine. They certainly don’t need to run the risk of overpaying for both….
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I needed a big trade to get me excited about the draft
Usually I’m dying of anticipation by this point. This year, though, with potential draft picks all over the board and no idea of who will even be available at 16 if the Bulls don’t trade up/down/out, I haven’t been all that pumped for it.
For whatever reason, this just did it. Bring on the offseason!
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
by wjb1492 on Jun 23, 2009 12:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Remember how RJ complained last year when he was traded. Somehow I doubt that he is going to complain about about getting away from Skiles to go play for a championship contender.
"Rest satisified with doing well and leave others to talk of you as they please"
by Bigred15 on Jun 23, 2009 12:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The #5 pick of the 2007 draft turned into......
A straight salary dump. That’s classic.
Milwaukee likely waives Bowen and Oberto, contending teams get to make a mad dash for them. Boston and Cleveland are going to definitely go after Thomas.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 23, 2009 12:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That's what's so crazy
Rather than keep Yi Jianlian on his rookie contract for cheap they end up trading him for RJ and then decide to dump the contract. ridiculous.
by The90sBullsRevival on Jun 23, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
at the time
they were making a playoff run between him/redd/bogut and getting Skiles. They had a bunch of injuries, it didn’t work out. Yi sucked.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 23, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"contending teams get to make a mad dash for them."
probably will just go back to the Spurs. I’m not sure what Bowen has left.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 23, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How could anyone be a Bucks fan?
The team is terrible AND boring. Michael Redd’s talents are being squandered in that wasteland. Might as well deal him, too, and start over. It’s not like Redd, Alexander, Sessions and Oberto are the nucleus of a contender. Yikes…
by Stay Chisel on Jun 23, 2009 12:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm shock that Skiles
didn’t turn this into a 3-way deal for Darius Songaila.
by YaoPau on Jun 23, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope.
I think his plan is to lure PJ Brown out of retirement. Man, on the other hand, I will never forget that playoff game when PJ scored like 22 pts in the first half. I was out scouring the streets for a PJ Brown jersey for like 2 weeks.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Jun 23, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha yep I was at that game
I’m pretty sure he ended the game with 22pts
by YaoPau on Jun 23, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're absolutely right.
He did not score one more point that entire game. But we did get that shot of him running down the court stoicly pumping his fist. Magical.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Jun 23, 2009 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so how are you complaining?
they’re clearly moving guys to save money and starting some kind of rebuilding process (even if it’s only locking up Sessions). They’d probably move Redd too if anyone thought his ‘talents’ were worth having.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 23, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ben Wallace's expiring contract for Michael Redd?
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 23, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Now that's a good move for them
They tank completely get another #1 overall draft pick int he process and build the young team the right way, rather than now be a 11th-13th seed and perennially miss the top 4 picks…
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Detroit wouldn't do it.
They’re looking to clear money to bring in FAs, not add to long-term salary. Besides, if they can just buy BG on the market, why do they need Redd?
by arjoseph on Jun 24, 2009 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And, I'm an idiot.
Still living in 2003, aparently. (I really wish this interface allowed for deleting of comments.) Nevermind.
by arjoseph on Jun 24, 2009 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear this Derrick Rose kid is gonna be good one day, just you wait
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 24, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Better than Jalene Rose?
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jun 24, 2009 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really a complaint, just a question as to when the Bucks will put a watchable product on the floor. They’ve had one winning season and zero “at least they’re fun to watch” seasons in the last 8. I applaud them for trying to rebuild, but as I have said before, ticket buyers pay to watch players and not cap room. Milwaukee is not a preferred destination for FAs, so their best chance to rebuild is through trades and the draft. This deal did not yield any usable players or draft picks. OK, so MKE saves some money and then locks up Sessions and Charlie V. Now what? The team is still average-to-poor, still boring and nobody from the golden 2010 FA class is going to go there. Sounds to me like MKE is worse off for the trade.
by Stay Chisel on Jun 23, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The more I think about it, the Bucks will be fine
They were 34-48 last year with Redd missing 49 games and Bogut missing 46. That’s a reallly impressive job by Skiles, but it also means that have some talent. And while I think Jefferson will be a help as a 4th option for the Spurs, he’s crap as a go-to scorer, with a -2.26 APM over the past two years.
Assuming good health, Sessions, Redd, and Bogut are all quality starters. If Villanueva and Alexander can combine to just be average at PF, I think they’re just a good draft pick (I think Earl Clark would fit) and a clean bill of health away from competing for home court advantage 1st round.
by YaoPau on Jun 23, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Earl Clark will have to compete
with Mbah a Moute for minutes.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jun 23, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that Redd/Jefferson/Bogut + Skiles WAS interesting
they just all got hurt.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 23, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd agree on that
But think they didn’t wait and see.
I’m fine trading any of them for the Bucks, but I can’t believe they would just dump RJ away…
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Michael Redd's talent.
Singular, would be a good fit in Orlando…the Bucks mistake was making Redd the cornerstone of the franchise…
And you are right, they should deal him and start over around Bogut and Sessions.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jun 23, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
im stunned the spurs did this
this basically guarantees they’ll be paying the tax next year— between manu, parker, duncan, and rj, thats almost 60 million alone right there. take note reinsdorf— if the freaknig spurs are willing to pay the tax, maybe you should suck it up, re-sign BG, and pay the tax considering you have the most profitable franchise in the league
by Calogero on Jun 23, 2009 12:49 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
Word.
I just rec’d you for that.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Jun 23, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
there was a rumor that the Spurs were trying to trade Manu
but I wouldn’t be surprised if they were willing to pay the tax. This is one of their last few chances to win with Duncan
by Basketball Smurf on Jun 23, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
They let Scola go for wooden nickels, then pay the tax for Jefferson….bad moves…
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they also won a title
so..what-evs, as the kids say. Bad moves happen.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 23, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still couldda won
With him though….and would be mroe set to possibly win some more….
Though RJ might help more than given credit for. He’s a really good #4 option, a really goodo ne.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They still won a title, I can't possibly see how that mattered to them at the time
They don’t have Scola, but no GM makes the right decision 100% of the time, even the best ones.
Mitch Kupchack probably wishes everyday he didn’t give stupid extensions to Vujajic, Bynum, and Walton. But, they won a title, so he still looks good.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 23, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not at the time
It’s today…..I’m just mad cuz I know we made some good offers there from the rumors….and failed.
But I agree of course with these points above.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Letting Scola go was a terrible mistake
I heard he’s unstoppable one-on-one.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
by Big D on Jun 23, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought they didn't have enough room to keep him
At least a few spurs fans were saying that
by Camry on Jun 23, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard the cavs should trade lebron for him
:)
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Jun 23, 2009 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's see
We trade a starting quality PF in a tough position to fill for nothing….
A dumb move. Scola had the rep for what 2 years of being perhaps the best player not in the NBA……
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2009 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Completely different situations.
Giving away Scola — whatever. But paying the tax now to make one more 2-year run with your aging HOFer — that makes tons of sense.
by arjoseph on Jun 24, 2009 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not
Complaining. I like the move for the Spurs a lot. RJ can play and is a bit undervalued on this blog comment string. He’s making too much money sure, but it’s not like Deng’s a huge jump over RJ (Deng makes less). Jefferson’s a solid starting 3 in this league. More explosive offensively than Luol….
I am just finding it odd that they let a guy making $29M the next 2 years for a guy that made half of that in the last 4 and might just be a better player…..it’s not like Scola was some complete unknown commodity to NBA GM’s when he came in as a rookie….
That’s all.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 24, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK. I understand that.
But I think it’s a bit of hindsight. I don’t know if anyone expected Scola to be quite this good nor for SA to be quite this bad. Duncan and Ginobili look to be deteriorating a bit quicker now than when the Spurs let go of Scola, so there’s more urgency now. Also, Scola’s a 4 and RJ’s a 3. With Bowen going from useful to useless almost immediately, SA really needed a wing more than a frontcourt mate. Scola’s contract certainly would be nicer than RJ’s, but I’m not sure the team would be better off with Scola over RJ anyway (assuming Duncan stays healthy, although if he doesn’t, they don’t have much chance anyway).
by arjoseph on Jun 24, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think anyone expected SA
To get this old this quick I guess, but I think a lot of folks knew Scola would be pretty good….
Man I wish I remembered what the last Bulls rumors were for him, I thought they were something and rid us early of Duhon to boot (Duhon could have been a good backup behind Parker in SA…he wouldn’t have stolen BG’s minutes)…
I think Duncan can play the 5 just as well as the 4, and they’ve had a need for a 4 just as long or longer as a running mate to Timmy D as the 3, Bowen basically slipped this last year….that’s why they brought in Drew Gooden last year…
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 24, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry jumping around
I think they’ve needed help at the 3 and 4 for a while to shore it up…more at least.
It’s not like Matt Bojnner (their latest trial) or Drew Gooden are solid replacements—if Drew’s even coming back there…..
But yeah whatever, they did win the title that year and now have RJ to plug one of the holes.
I just really wish I remembered what we had offered, because at the time (height of my I hate Duhon days and thinking maybe we could dish him while he still had a lot of perceived Skilesian value—a value that lead to a full MLE with New York) we had a bit more to offer, though had some tax implications I believe.
Oh well…..
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 24, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm guessing they see this as Duncan's and Manu's "last shot".
That’s gotta be worth a few million if you think Jefferson is the guy.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 23, 2009 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently
The Wizards just rejected a deal from the Suns for Stoudamire because it included Caron Butler. I think that’s good for us — it will lower his asking price. Deng+Tyrus+draft pick should seal the deal.
I actually think that’s a pretty fair trade.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Jun 23, 2009 12:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If you're the Wizards
would you have included Caron Butler in that deal to get Amare?
I would have pulled the trigger on that trade even with Caron in the package. Why would that turn the Wizards sour?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jun 23, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Gilbert's
Not anything near where he was 2+ years ago and they now know it…and need Caron to mask it since they gave him that seemingly horrendous contract.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe that's the thinking..
along with the fact that they’ve been telling everyone and their mother that their “big 3” is good enough to win a title with.
If I were the Wizards (and I don’t know who else was to be included in said deal — but it was probably something like Caron Butler, #5 pick, Etan Thomas and Mike James) I probably wouldn’t have pulled the trigger either.
You have a log jam at PF with Amar’e and Jamison and you’re now missing your best player from last year. Add to it that you can’t pick at #5 and I’m not sure that deal would have made the Wiz any better. If they had been able to keep the #5 pick somehow then maybe… but you still have the log jam at the 4 spot.
I suppose it wouldn’t be too hard to trade Jameson somewhere for a useful swingman.. in any case, I don’t see how this is anything but good for the Bulls.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Jun 23, 2009 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great deal for the Bucks
Now just move Redd and Charlie Bell and the bad contracts are all gone.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jun 23, 2009 2:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
13 million for 2 seasons of Dan Gadzuric beg to differ
And is Sham Sports playing tricks on me, or is there really a guy on the Bucks named Fresh Prince?
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 23, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's Luc Richard Mbah a Moute
which is a lot easier to spell and type as “Fresh Prince”.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jun 23, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn, I knew it was too good to be true
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 23, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
great move
damn this evil empire and darth pop
I was watching the 1995 Playoffs VS the Magic's and remembered how much I hated Horace Grant. Horace Grant - i hope you burn in bball hell
by Belize on Jun 23, 2009 3:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Kind of a weird deal for the Spurs
I mean, I think if I were the Spurs, I’d try to find someone better and/or cheaper than RJeff. Those NG contracts could, I think, have gotten a lot of pretty good players. Is he really the guy they wanted?
by Sports2 on Jun 23, 2009 3:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think they tried to go after
Vince Carter dangling much of the same…..and that would have been better….but Jefferson as a 4th option? That’s a great move, presuming Manu gets back to form…
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Part of the reason is that time was running out.
One of those NG contracts became guaranteed on July 1, the other on Aug. 1. Considering that more teams would want to deal before the draft (which would then let them draft more intelligently), SA made a pretty shrewd guess that this was the best they could get.
by arjoseph on Jun 24, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmmm
This deal does the trick in a big way. Oberto is guaranteed only $1.9 million for the 2009-10 season and Bowen only $2 million. Both will likely be waived in the coming days in order to avoid paying their full salaries (Bowen becomes fully guaranteed on Aug. 1, Oberto on July 1). The trade will save Milwaukee $6.35 million in payroll, and possibly more if the Bucks can reach a buyout agreement with Thomas.
So this has me thinking… should we try to get Oberto or Bowen to come off the bench? thoughts anyone?
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Jun 23, 2009 3:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd be fine
For Bowen….for the vet min. We need D help and he can play 15-20 minutes really well….whenever needed.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 23, 2009 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not much left, except grabbing hoping to not be called for fouls, competitive lateral movement is gone.
He’s fishing flodder now!
man up!
by exult463 on Jun 24, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
20 PPG is fishing fodder…..and just turned 28 yrs old….
Total fishing fodder.
He didn’t play as well as he had in the NJ days, but he’s definitely far from done, however you want to slice it.
He also was often made their #1 or #2 guy (RJ and Charlie V) on O because of Redd’s injury….
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 24, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he was referring to Bowen.
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton
by fundamentallysound on Jun 24, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
mY BAD....SORRY
I was responding in the above, then scrolled here and thought I was still in the other area.
Totally my bad.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
by majoyenrac on Jun 24, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't it likely they end up back in San Antonio?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jun 23, 2009 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bench
Bowen used to get major minutes by being a stopper and hitting an occasional three. Last year he couldn’t score at all and he’s half a step away from not being able to defend. Oberto is a slightly more mobile Gray. I think the Bulls are much better off with younger guys with some upside for their bench.
by El Toro de Goro on Jun 23, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
fk bowen
but i like the other guy with the pasta name
I was watching the 1995 Playoffs VS the Magic's and remembered how much I hated Horace Grant. Horace Grant - i hope you burn in bball hell
by Belize on Jun 23, 2009 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently the Bucks have swapped Oberto to Detroit for Amir Johnson
So the Pistons get that much more cap room
by Sports2 on Jun 23, 2009 7:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
As my father would likely say,
They’re shooting the moon, and there’s not a damn thing we can do about it.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
by wjb1492 on Jun 23, 2009 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Crap
So the Bulls may get nothing for a good player…ugh…a sign and trade would have been fantastic…
by DRose01 on Jun 23, 2009 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah this can't be good for the Bulls
This just drives up BG’s asking price. I really, really hope that either the Piston’s or shooting for Boozer/Turkoglu or that GarPaxDorf has a plan to get us a high-quality SG.
by Rose Colored Goggles on Jun 23, 2009 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's all it took to get Amir Johnson... damn
If there ever was an unheralded advanced stats all-star, it’s Amir. I would’ve rather had him than Hansbrough, Blair, Mullens…
Hopefully he gets a chance to play in Milwaukee.
by YaoPau on Jun 24, 2009 8:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't he pretty much come to earth this past year
He wasn’t horrible, but he didn’t exactly bust out the way he was expected to either. He also seems to be a foul machine and hasn’t been able to develop much of a shot.
by Sports2 on Jun 24, 2009 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly I didn't watch enough of him this year to give much of an opinion
His Per36 numbers still looked good though, fouls aside: 8.6pts, 9.2rebs (4.1 offensive), 0.8 steals, 2.4 blocks. The guy’s just 21, and his career APM is about positive-one-million. I figured the Pistons would extend him longterm for cheap considering they have basically nothing else on their payroll.
by YaoPau on Jun 24, 2009 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed, yet those fouls are a real problem, because no one will keep a guy on court who's fouling up a storm
It’s an open question, I guess, whether coaches should ignore fouls and keep guys out there, but they tend to not do it.
In Johnson’s case though, I think it’s fair to say he’s got a real problem with it, because, unless Tyrus, who’s learned to avoid those fouls (I won’t question here whether it’s cost his game to do so), Amir hasn’t.
So really, you can’t even use his per36 numbers because he’d foul out in less than 36 minutes :)
by Sports2 on Jun 24, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
rec please?
I don’t want it sliding down the fanshot line…
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 23, 2009 11:25 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
thanks kids!
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 24, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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