Hinrich for number 5?

I saw the headline that wizards blog was talking about a backcourt mate for Gilbert Arenas. I clicked on it and started laughing at the criteria...check it out

4 months ago piccolomair 41 comments 3 recs |

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"Ben Gordon is out for his pitiful defense"

Funny, but true. I love how this article made it seem like it was Rose’s fault Hinrich’s stats were low.

by Ariel112 on Jun 18, 2009 1:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

"I love how this article made it seem like it was Rose’s fault Hinrich’s stats were low"

Depends on how you read it i suppose…. i read it as hinrichs stats were low because derrick rose was more than good enough to take his minutes at pg, so thus hinrichs minutes, ppg, and apg took a hit.

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Jun 18, 2009 1:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree.

It was just the way it was wrote.

by Ariel112 on Jun 18, 2009 2:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here we go again with the bashing of Gordon's D.

DeShawn Stevenson MAY be the only backcourt/wing player on that team who tries to play more defense than Gordon does.

by lexdiamonds0730 on Jun 19, 2009 12:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The point was a bit extreme

It was more to say that Gordon doesn’t really do much to solve the defense problem, not that Gordon in a vacuum is awful defensively.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Jun 19, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Very well written post by the Wiz dude

There are some guys over there who think the Wizards should offer up Thomas and the #5 pick for Hinrich. I for one would do that in a second. Maybe less than a second. With the fifth pick I would take Harden, but he is my 09 draft man crush. Versatile scorer capable of playing solid defense, excellent passer at the 2 and a quality rebounder. Plus he is one of those high character guys who JR loves. If he can hit 3’s at a decent clip, he is the exact type of shooting guard I think should be paired with Rose.

Something like -

Hinrich and #16
for
Thomas, Crittenton and #5 would work.

If Harden is gone, Curry, Flynn, Evans, and Hill should all be there and would also be possibilities.

Alas, I don’t think the Wizards would trade the #5 pick for Hinrich. I don’t know if the larger Wizard community would be happy with Hinrich over some college star. Hinrich doesn’t exactly excite a fan base.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 18, 2009 3:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

They did point out

that the statistics do not suggest that Harden is not a good spot up shooter. However, that may be largely because there was no one to initiate the offense on that team besides Harden. So Harden might not be the best fit next to Rose, but I’d take my chances with Harden any day.
An alternative to your trade
Hinrich + Salmons (butler played 39 mpg last season) +#26

for Etan Thomas, Mike James (backup pg), and #5

I like this more as it keeps the Bulls youth together and because Salmons has value on a win now team, like the Wizards.

by Jamaicanpi on Jun 18, 2009 6:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Given the (high) likelihood that the Bulls aren't keeping Gordon, I'd certainly trade Hinrich for Harden

I think it sucks to take a step back, but Harden looks like pretty close to a can’t miss prospect.

BullsTwo

by Sports2 on Jun 18, 2009 7:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree. he reminds me of... a seemingly slower Manu.

But I don’t if he is slower or just more deliberate. I have no idea where I got that comparison, but it seems to work alright. I wonder, though, with his good combine numbers if he’d even be around at No. 5 anymore. They could trade Hinrich for the No. 5, then the No. 5 and…. Tyrus Thomas for the No. 2 and Darrell Arthur??? So Hinrich, the No. 16 and Tyrus Thomas for James Harden and Darrell Arthur. Ugh, not nice. I really do think that much of Harden and his fit next to Rose, though, and it’d be nice to have the backcourt set for the next decade.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jun 18, 2009 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay, that's too much. I just don't like any of the other guards and coming away without Harden would suck.

I guess I could “settle” for Jordan Hill for Hinrich if Harden were off the board. Maybe offer them No. 5 and No. 26 for No. 2 and they can settle for Hill, Curry, Evans, DeRozan.

Hill would be a nice complement to the still-hopeful front court (for me) rotation of Thomas, Noah & Asik.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jun 18, 2009 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think I'd pull the trigger on any trades until the draft actually happens (unless, I guess, it's for the #2 pick)

But yeah, I have a hard time picturing giving up a whole lot to get that high myself.

I also picture a OJ Mayo, Rudy Gay and James Harden working out very poorly as a combo.

BullsTwo

by Sports2 on Jun 18, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with that, especially if they wants to make Mayo the PG.

You know what Memphis should do? Keep trading down until until they can get Lawson around 8 or 9 or something. I can’t imagine them taking yet another guard, though. Yet Lawson, Mayo and Gay would have a pretty bright future, in my opinion.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jun 18, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i think Lawson would be a perfect fit for Memphis

but for some reason they seem to think Mayo can play the point guard. There is a reason why teams like Memphis continually fail.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 18, 2009 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No doubt

BullsTwo

by Sports2 on Jun 18, 2009 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Rose and Harden backcourt is questionable to me

I premise my Harden analysis on what he did at ASU. At ASU he was the ball handler. He would create for the Sun Devils a lot like the way Lebron creates for the Cavs. Just get him the ball and he’ll either create his own shot, create FT attempts, create a passing opp, or turn it over. Basically, what we want Rose doing since we know Rose isn’t now a real 3pt perimeter threat. And factor that Rose is a lot better than Harden in this penetration and create game. Faster, stronger, and more athletic is Rose compared to Harden.

I do think Harden will be a good pro. I just think it is going to be with a club where he’ll have shooters around him. OKC would be interesting.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Jun 18, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The question is whether Harden needed to dominate the ball

or whether ASU needed Harden to dominate the ball. I think its the latter. Harden was so much better than every other player on his team, other than the center Pendagraph, that it was in ASU’s best interest for Harden to dominate the ball. No matter where Harden goes, he will have to play off the ball a bit more. I think that is an adjustment he can make. He is a good passer and spot up shooter. From what I saw from Harden, while he initiated the offense, he rarely over dribbled. ASU relied a lot on motion sets. Harden would routinely get the ball, and without hesitation give it up or make a move.

Since Rose played with many other ball dominant guards this season, I don’t see how replacing Gordon with Harden would hurt Rose. I don’t see Rose being the ball dominant guard that Paul, Nash or even Deron Williams is. The Bulls have said they would like to play Rose off the ball some this season. Harden would seemingly have the skills to run a half court offense and allow Rose to play off the ball at times. I think its a good fit.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 18, 2009 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it's good to have more than one player who can create his own shot.

Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili seem to work really, really well together.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jun 18, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Doesn't the Spurs defense

pretty much make the Parker/Ginobili/Duncan stretch runs possible?

I don’t mind Spurs comparisons, but I think their style is so unique in today’s game and in particular for Western Conference ball. They’re like the black sheep of the West.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Jun 18, 2009 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

WTF?

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jun 18, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i like the ginobli comparison and thought of it myself last night

he doesn’t play with the flash of Ginobli, but they are both left handers who are deceptively quick and strong. Of course, he has a long way to go before he reaches Ginobli’s skill and production.

by Basketball Smurf on Jun 18, 2009 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would definitely not consider being left-handed any sort of factor at all.

but yes, the “deceptively quick and strong”, craftiness, ability to get their shot off while making it look easy, a lot more deliberate driver than someone like Rose, always seeming to be in the right place on defense, making the good decisions.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Jun 18, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The bulls may be at an advantage

Wizards and Blazers both seem to identify kirk as an ideal guard to have on thier team, this could really work in favor of the bulls. The wizards seem more than willing to offer ethan thomas and the 5th pick (so we can get a guard with the 5 pick like harden, and get ethan thomas who is very much like what we expect from blair, only older and more injured). This is an inticing offer, and i could see this putting pressure on portland to give us more than just blake and outlaw. We might be able to pull off getting Rudy Fernandez.

So this brings the question, if portland offers us Rudy Fernandez and blake for hinrich, would that make gordon more expendable?

Rose/Blake
Salmons/Rudy
Deng/Rudy
Tyrus/16th
Noah/Miller

I think that would be a capable of team, and cap friendly to boot

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Jun 18, 2009 2:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Do you think Pritchslap will trade Rudy?

Affordable, productive, popular, Spanish broadcasts.

Tough break for Travis Outlaw.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Jun 18, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rudy would actually be a great fit here..

drive and kicks all day from D-Rose. That also would be a great insurance plan for Deng-dong (if he’s not healthy, or simply not productive). Do I think Portland trades their second or third most popular player for Hinrich? Probably not.

by Rose Colored Goggles on Jun 18, 2009 3:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Throw them our draft pick(s) maybe?

Hinrich & 16 (maybe 26 also)
for Blake and Fernandez

"Remember, I'm Italian".

by BCs71 on Jun 18, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If it happens

I’m down for that. I’m not sure I’d want to give up BOTH picks… I think we can get value out of that pick at 26 (Danny Green, Nick Calathes, DaJuan Summers, etc.) but I’m definitely all for Hinrich and one pick for Blake and Fernandez.

by Rose Colored Goggles on Jun 18, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pritchslappin' the ole Pritch himself

"Remember, I'm Italian".

by BCs71 on Jun 18, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i was on blazers edge recently

and they had a post about getting rid of one of the three in Batum, Rudy, or Westbrook. They Thought that batum was someone with tremendous upside and already a great defender and extremely young so he should be kept cuz he had a high cieling and a very good chance of reaching it. Westbrook got a ditto plus he was good enough to be a pg of the future since he has shown flashes this season. Rudy however was older than the rest of the guys and seemed to be playing at a level he has played at for the last several years, so they concluded that though it would be hard rudy would be the odd man out (IF IT EVER CAME TO SUCH A CHOICE) Because he probably wasnt going to get much better than he is now.

For that reason they may be willing to part with rudy. Although i cant say if Pritchard’s thoughts on his players are the same as the fan base….

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Jun 18, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

By Westbrook...

did you mean Bayless?

by Rose Colored Goggles on Jun 18, 2009 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

?

The Blazers don’t have Westbrook on their team. Do you mean Bayless (pg) Martell Webster (sf)?

by Jamaicanpi on Jun 18, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ahhh

i did mean bayless…sorry…

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Jun 19, 2009 12:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A RoseColored compromise..

Blazers Get: Hinrich, and #16
Bulls Get: Blake, Fernandez, and #33

by Ceasaleo on Jun 21, 2009 2:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Like it

I’d do that in a heartbeat.

by Rose Colored Goggles on Jun 22, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Would you trade Deng to get Rudy?

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Jun 18, 2009 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tough call...

I’d say too tough to call until we know about Deng’s health. At this point, unless we get a very, very solid starter in return for Deng I’m all for waiting to see how he does this year fully healthy. Everyone forgets how great he played in January and early February last year before his injury and the trade. He was putting up 20 and 8 with a PER somewhere around 18 or 19 in those months (if anyone has the exact numbers feel free to post ’em).

I WAS a big fan of Luol so I’d hate to see him go for a player that basically amounts to a 3 point specialist who happens to have great hops.

by Rose Colored Goggles on Jun 18, 2009 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Harden vs. Rudy Fernandez

Other things being equal, I’d take my chances with Harden if we could trade to get both.

Rudy’s an interesting player. I think overall he’s got a good game, but I have a pretty hard time figuring out who to compare him to. The guy he really reminds me off a bit is the more experienced version of Jamal Crawford with (slightly) better shot selection.

That’s actually not an attempt to knock him. Jamal’s evolved into a guy who’s somewhat useful. But… I’m not sure I’d want to pencil him in as my guy at the SG spot for the next 10 years either.

BullsTwo

by Sports2 on Jun 19, 2009 8:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

yeah

i think he’s got a little better size than Jamal. To me, Jamal’s kind of like a Ben Gordon type guy – an PG sized SG. Anybody know his measureables?

by Rose Colored Goggles on Jun 19, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

They're both on DX

I’ve got the measurements in a spreadsheet, and Rudy and Jamal are much more similar to each other than Ben. Rudy and Jamal basically have identical long and skinny bodies, while Ben is a compact muscular guy.

Basically, Ben gives them 3-4 inches in height but has an extra 20lbs of muscle they don’t have



Name 	Ben	Jam	Rudy

Year	2004	2000	2005

Ht	6’ 1"	6’ 4.5"	6’ 4.75"

Wgt	192	175	172

Wing	6’ 8.5"	6’ 10"	6’ 7.5"

Reach 	8’ 3"	8’ 6.5"	8’ 5.5"

NS Vt	31.5	NA	26.5

M Vt	37.5	NA	35.5

Bench 	12	 	 

Agil	11.28	NA	10.48

Sprt 	3.19	NA	3.33

Rank 	17	64	56

Drft	3	8	24

Interesting, huh?

BullsTwo

by Sports2 on Jun 19, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs