Now here's a trade proposal (Josh Smith) for you that hasn't been discussed
Apparently there are rumors that Atlanta is tired of the headcasedness of Josh Smith....the athletic, talented, versatile Josh Smith (who might be a young Zach Randolph, or might be a guy who just freaking hates Mike Woodson or a little of both--nevertheless he's more talented for upside than Randolph and I don't know if he's had any of the run ins....checks sham...no I don't see any....
Why don't we try this trade:Atlanta trades Josh Smith to the Bulls and Speedy Claxton (16.3M in salaries)
Bulls trade Luol Deng + Jerome James + #16 and if necessary #24 pick to the Hawks
Why this works: Hawks--rid themselves of an upside guy who screams locker room concerns--so much so that he was given only a 5 yr contract after months of waiting for a team to set the stage for his value.....in return Hawks get an equally good young guy who would fit in nicely next to Joe Johnson. THey save roughly 80% of Jerome James's salary (big for them or really any org but esp an org with all the ownership issues). And they get the #16 and #24 picks in the process in a draft that isn't supposed to be the greatest, but could fill in some holes. They'd still have wiggle room to sign Bibby or work out another trade later. I would think they _COULD_ be interested in Kirk, but not so sure for the money he's making for the roster they have longer term....I think they'd prefer dangling the $5.2M of savings that is Jerome James's 80% contract--if I'm right on that??, but hey if they need Kirk, we can tweak to make this possible.
Why this works for the Bulls...
Well Speedy Claxton also expires next year, though it's $5.2M instead of $6.6M, I'd argue that the $1.4M is totally worth the "risk" of Josh Smith....as he could be a supreme landing. Claxton helps further delete the need for Ben Gordon...and we can move Tyrus and Smith to split the 3/4 spots pretty equally, and play those 2 together which would be exciting....we'd still be ridiculously young too. I think Smith would be a good risky risk taker to make, and think his salary should be mroe tradable than Deng--it's just been thought he wasn't moving beforehand...but who knows. Smith is already a better player than Deng, and should get better, which is why teh Bulls give up more. Could you imagine if Tyrus gets it and Smith gets it....pairing them with Rose, the magical role player in the making of Noah and Salmons....oh I'd be pumped.
Bulls lineup:
Rose-PG backed with Hinrich unless traded and some of Speedy Claxton
Salmons-SG backed iwth Hinrich unless traded and some Speedy Claxton
Josh Smith-SF (though he'll switch to PF often) backed with some Salmons, some Tyrus Thomas and some TIm Thomas
Tyrus THomas-PF--with with Josh Smith, some Noah, some Tim Thomas
I'd be pumped. Totally worth any risk. Bulls don't really need the draft picks/assets with our cap flexibility. We'd still have some money to spend this year and next year, and BG wouldn't be necessary as the Tyrus-Noah-Josh Smith-Derrick Rose is easily the most athletic team in the entire league.
Make it happen, if not this then in some other way. _breathes_
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Tyrus & Smith splitting the three scares the s**t out of me
but a potential upside to this trade is that Smith is definitely a marketable trade piece in the sweepstakes for someone like Bosh. If I were Toronto I’d much rather take a signed long-term Smith than Tyrus.
But is Deng really enough to pry Smith from Atlanta?
It's all on upside thoguh
Bulls do the unthinkable and take a real risk….but the reward could be something.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
With Tyrus and Smith on the same team,
the Bulls would average more blocks than defensive rebounds. I’m not judging, just saying.
I was discussing via text message first...
My thought Smith + 19 for Tyrus + (filler) 26.
Bulls draft hopefully draft Henderson at 16 & still can grab Hansbrough before the Jazz at 19. This would allow the Bulls to let BG walk keep the favorite son Kirk.
Rose/ Kirk
Salmons / Henderson/ Kirk
Deng/ Salmons
Smith/ Hansbrough
Miller/ Noah
The trade kicker would have to be discussed, but a 9 man rotation like above would be a championship contender for years to come. Atlanta could replace Smith with another young promising player. They could sign Tryus too a much cheaper contract then Smith. Marvin, Horfod, and Tyrus is still a scary young and talented frontcourt
by Jesse07 on Jun 16, 2009 1:20 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Tyrus is more athletic than Smith in my opinion at least
But Smith’s already a pretty significantly better player (except perhaps less coachable). I know Tyrus could and should be better perhaps down the line, but he’s got a bit to go….and there’s a 1 yr age difference, so who knows he might not be.
Smith has a lot more of what I’d hope Tyrus could be next year…..
I don’t think the Bulls can trade for Smith and retain the upper hand unless it’s BG-Deng in there….and I think I’d like this risk. WOuld make this summer anticipation more fun, and like was said above….worst case we have a better asset to package down the road.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
I don't see that much of a gap
Smith is better at getting to the hoop and finishing consistently, and has a decent 15 ft elbow jumper that he knocks down. However, he takes a lot of 3 pointers when he isn’t that good at it, his midrange game is still suspect, and his rebounding, blocks, steals are all comparable to Tyrus.
Tyrus and Smith on the same team is a disaster. Aside from Salmons there isn’t anyone you can rely on to hit a jumpshot, and even worse there is no 3 point shooting other than Salmons.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 16, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I think
Tyrus very well will come along, and imagine the versatility and matchups that a Smith-Noah-Rose-Tyrus lineup will give on O and D.
I do agree that so far Smith has been very undisciplined and that Tyrus has the Harlem Globetrotter moments, but I’d hope that with Rose setting the tone, seemingly fun/different players like Noah around who want to win, Tyrus already seeming to buy into coaching just needs more time, and Smith then possibly worried about no longer being ht emost athletic young big on his team, that he’d come around.
He’s a talent, he’s young, he can play dumb, but I think he is clearly better than current Tyrus (Though if I were starting a team and choosing between the two I’d still rather take the Tyrus chance first given his athleticism and less apparent moodiness).
i think it’s a gamble, I’ve said as much, but for a team who tends to always take the easy route (sans Tyrus Thomas that is) this would be a nice risk that could be fixed in 1 offseason with the salary money we’d have.
Josh Smith should be more and more tradalbe too donw the line…..and playing in a big market I think would suit him well (Getting him away from home too)…
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
The Flow
The parent paragraph of this comment was keeping Deng and trading Tyrus for Smith with a swap of draftpicks. Sending Deng to Atlanta doesn’t make much sense to me. Isn’t Marvin / Deng closer to to playing 2 SF and Tryrus /Smith closer to to playing with 2 PF. Seems a little redundant for both teams if the trade centered around Smith for Deng.
They didn't sign Marvin
And frankly would you rather have Deng? or Marvin Williams? I’d say and 95% of the GM’s would say Deng….
I know you added in Tyrus, but I was saying that Tyrus doesn’t quite have that value, though maybe adding Salmons would…..
But I’d rather have the flexibility of the future by letting Deng go over Salmons’s cheaper salary….and I would personally take the talent that is Josh Smith over Deng, but I don’t know the team playing capabilities/coachability of Josh Smith, and that might make this doable.
I also think TYrus and Smith are more 3/4’s….guys who can play both—with their versatility….
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
Also
Getting to the hoop and finishing consistently is a big need for this club, so I’d say that there is reason to try this deal.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
One thing I'd modify with your deal and resulting
team is throw in Salmons for the (filler). Maybe that’d get them to swap picks. Also ask for cash to offset Smith’s kicker. I’m unsure if it’s spread over his deal or a one-time payment, but 6 mil is steep. (Just ask Jerry)
To replace Salmons I’d target a guy like Linas Kleiza in Free Agency. Maybe he could be had with the MLE.
Ideally I’d want to move Kirk via trade, and have BG come back, but if Deng is healthy and Smith continues to improve, BG’s loss will be easier to accept.
Salmons
I would think Atlanta would be more interested in Kirk then Salmons, but who knows (Unless it is just a salary dump.) Atlanta has Bibby up for freeagency and Salmons would be a backup to Marvin & Johnson.
Kirk, Tyrus for Josh Smith & 19. #26 can be sold to another team to make up the money for the trade kicker or given to Atlanta. With Kirk gone, resign BG.
That missed show-boat dunk against the Miami Heat in the playoffs was enought to sour me on Smith for good.
No matter how talented, he’s not a winner.
Now that might be true....
But I think his value will still be high enough for the upside to trade later if we need to do so…
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
Smith isn't a small forward
I never understood the desire to play the Kirilenko’s, Tyrus’s, Smith’s at the 3. They’re amazing shotblockers, leave them inside.
Smith played 0% of his minutes at small forward this season, 0% last season. And one guy who fires awful jumpshots (Tyrus) is plenty.
I think he played PF
More because they wanted to see what they had in #2 pick pseudo-bust Marvin Williams (I like Marvin a bit for future potential, but he’s not a #2 pick, a bad pick)….
I also think they have no qualms putting Horford in at the 5 spot, when he’s probably a better 4….
And I think given the athleticism and range of skills both Tyrus (when groomed) and Smith (a guy who can play that spot) could be good at the 3 or 4. Tyrus also seems to want to be a 3, and his athleticism should allow it. I don’t think we’ve seen near what we can from Tyrus, and thus the past is the past…I mean last year I never would have thought Tyrus could do anything really but putbacks on O….and yet somehow he developed a great form on his jump shot (and has an affinity to shoot em)…..
I think these guys are too athletic to say what they’re not. And given their height and raw skills…..who knows. They could be the twin towers of the 3/4 spot (the Curry/Chandler all over again in a diff spot, the difference is this time that both are better than Curry and Chandler were in a Bulls uniform already—though Tyson had some key moments)….
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
Also
I am a bit hypocritical here and you pointed that out because I’ve long thought Kirilenko should remain a 4 in Utah to max his athleticism/shot blocking strengths….
But I guess I mostly think that in the NBA you go after talent first and foremost, and Josh Smith is a full fledged talent with real superstar talent potential—he just might not have that maturity to get there…but he has it in his reach. So I think we get him and try to make it work….
And I’ve long wanted AK47 (not his salary but the player) on these Bulls…..because of his versatility and have illusions of grandeur seeing 2 similar Tyrus’s on 1 team, with the much cheaper Josh Smith being far more attractive long term that the $6M too high in comparison Andrei Kirilenko….
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
I'm not sure why the Hawks would want Deng...
The benefit of Smith is that he can play PF (allowing them to go with Marvin Williams at the SF spot). Deng doesn’t play the PF spot. So they’d be trading away their PF and then immediately create a jogjam at SF forcing the need for another move.
From the Bulls perspective, I’m not sure I want Thomas and Smith on the court together. I’m just not sold on either player’s perimeter game being sufficient to play the wing. While both can technically play the 3, I don’t think either one is really suited for it offensively. And both seem to prefer hanging out around the rim to block shots defensively.
Basically, I see Smith as a rich man’s version of Thomas. If we got Smith, Thomas would become expendable. Obviously this won’t happen, but I’d see Smith and Deng being a more functionable pairing than Smith and Thomas.
But I think it’s a no-go from Atlanta’s perspective if Deng is the centerpiece. He just creates more lineup problems for them.
One thing I tend to find funny
Is that the Bulls fan community seems to be scared of talent. We’d rather plug the holes in their cookie cutter positions than worry about getting the most talent we can get.
Getting the most talent helps both make the team better and if it doesn’t work gets us much more assets to trade later.
What did you all think when the Magic grabbed Rashard Lewis, a tweening 3/4 who really is more a 3, when they already had a tall, lanky 3 in Hedo Turkoglu….everyone thought it was a stupid move and not just for the money (cuz I will agree they paid Lewis too much $$) but folks thought, what are they gonna do with two 3’s and no four’s?
Well they adjusted quite nicely and are perhapst he biggest matchup issue in the entire league—and that is not all Dwight Howard as Perkins and Gasol proved…..
If the Bulls could add Smith, a top 5-10 athlete in the league, and pair him with Tyrus Thomas a top 5-10 athlete in the league, and Derrick Rose a top 5-10 athlete in the league….wow.
Smith has shown ball handling and passing ability, and has an affinity to take some outside shots. Tyrus has shown a bit of these two, but it’s blossoming more with Tyrus, whereas Smith is closer.
If the Bulls could pull off this trade while essentially only losing Deng and some #16 and #24 picks that we really don’t need anyway, it would be a major coup.
NBA wins on talent, not on cookie cutter positioning. If a team is stacked with the athletes we have, it would be a bit on Vinny to figure it out (or the next coach), but this team should be ripe to potentially make a serious run.
If it doesn’t work? Well Josh Smith, Tyrus Thomas will always have trade value through their mid to late 20’s…..and we still have Kirk Hinrich (he’s less necessary with Claxton able to really play a more backup spot to Kirk’s should be starting spot) to work out another trade and still have flexibility with Brad Miller, Speedy Claxton and Tim Thomas expiring to work out a good deal next year for a premier free agent (D. Wade)…
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
The mix-and-match talent issue is irrelevant....
as the Hawks wouldn’t do this trade.
The Orlando example isn’t really apt. They succeeded because they surrounded a dominant post presence with lots of versatile perimeter weapons. With Smith/Thomas/Noah/Miller/etc, you have a bunch of guys who aren’t effective outside of 15 feet. Who’s going to create the spacing to get those guys opportunities?
I’m not saying it can’t work – just that I don’t see it as a good combination of talent.
And again, it really is a moot point. The Hawks aren’t going to trade the only guy they have at PF for yet another SF.
ESPN is talking of them finding offers for Smith
Horford I believe really and truly is a PF….
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
I didn't say they won't trade Smith...
just that they won’t trade Smith for yet another SF (especially one that really can’t play out of position at PF).
If they trade Smith (and they very well may), it’d need to be for a big man or a point guard.
by SouthernCub on Jun 17, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
I still think ability to save cash (Jerome James) and Deng ain't bad
But we could throw HInrich into the mix and forgo any of their cap savings.
I don’t know if we’re the odds on favorites for this trade, but I think it’s more than fair….they need a C, and Horford’s been playing out of position (he’s playing well while being out of position, but he’d likely be more effective at the 4 anyway) and I think they’re done with Marvin Williams unless they can keep him on the cheap since they didn’t even really think to offer him anything last year despite his number improvements and that he was pretty terrible in the playoffs and played very little minutes , which may be very well possible.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
Part of the problem with Williams this year was injury...
I don’t think they’re done with him. He played limited minutes because he had just returned from injury – then got hurt again.
by SouthernCub on Jun 17, 2009 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I’m surprised no one has commented directly on Faizamaze’s trade proposal other than hlac – it actually looks pretty good. Everyone knows the Blazers want Hinrich (and that a Blake/Outlaw combo is pretty much what they’re willing to give up) and Toronto needs to get a potential all-star who’s signed long-term for Bosh. I’m not convinced that Deng + Steve Blake is enough for them, but if we make the aforementioned trade for Josh Smith then I think that would suffice.
In return we get Outlaw as a replacement for Deng (allowing Salmons to rotate between the 2 and his natural position at 3) AND we get Mr. Bosh. Our line-up as such:
PG: Rose and draft pick
SG: Salmons and draft pick
SF: Outlaw, Tim Thomas, Salmons
PF: Bosh and Tyrus
C: Noah and Miller
What say ye?
by Rose Colored Goggles on Jun 17, 2009 12:58 PM CDT reply actions
Where do I sign
Kudos to you both.
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
Can I ammend his trade too?
I’m gonna sit down and figure out how we can get Smith, but also Gilbert Arenas, Corey Maggette and Stephen Jackson, and then sign up Rasheed Wallace as our free agent center. Maybe we can trade for Darko too, in order to add some depth.
What
We only added Bosh and netted out Deng, Hinrich actual money savings from James and some picks….
I don’t think is anywhere near the crazy proposals seen on here quite a bit.
I certainly don’t think Josh Smith is un-gettable (perceived bad attitude, might not be ateam player, might not be coachable, and the phones weren’t exactly ringing for him last year….which is why he got a contract lower than the analysts thought)….
I think too with Bosh on board we might not need Tyrus…
And I do think that having Smith would make a Bosh trade simpler if we added the right other pieces, but I don’t know if I’d trade Smtih anyway….cuz I’d like to see the
I care less on the Hinrich piece….
THE BULLS ARE GOING TO WIN IN 2010....maybe by stating this the positive vibes can make it happen.
Sorry, it wasn't as much a commentary on the trade as my sense that Josh Smith rates up there with those other guys
in terms of scaring me attitude wise.
So I figured why don’t we go out and get an all horrible attitude team

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