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Option27
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Sweet jesus that would be a reach.
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton
by fundamentallysound on Jun 1, 2009 2:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Holy Moly
LMAO – You two summed it up perfectly. That said, I wouldn’t mind him at 26.
by Jesse07 on Jun 1, 2009 3:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Never underestimate the power of Paxson's love
for gritty white athletes. I bet Pax sent him a #5 jersey already with his name on it…
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Jun 1, 2009 3:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He's got a lot of heart and grit!
Get ready to hear that ad nauseum for the next few years.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
by Big D on Jun 1, 2009 3:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry if the link don't work
I read it on my ESPN Insider page. Might be why it don’t work
But yeah, I’m with al of ya
by Option27 on Jun 1, 2009 3:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Take it easy Gar Paxson
Just focus all that man-grit love on Blair, and get lost in his biceps.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 1, 2009 3:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think we'll have a moderator for awhile.
This probably blew up yfBB’s computer. Or his head.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 1, 2009 3:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
indeed, now my face looks like this
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 1, 2009 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
id rather have the guy that did that to him
I remember Michael dribbling at the top of the key. Everybody knew to just get the hell out of his way. - Steve Kerr
by Yibs on Jun 1, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how funny would BOTH be?
never thought of that.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 1, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't he do that to himself?
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jun 1, 2009 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gerald Henderson.
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton
by fundamentallysound on Jun 1, 2009 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
God, was it Henderson that did that?
I forgot about that. I liked Henderson before, now I like him even more. There’s no way someone of Henderson’s value can be passed on for TH. At least I hope….
by smash! on Jun 2, 2009 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
excuse me...
…while I go throw up in my shoes
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
by NormVanBeer on Jun 1, 2009 3:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I ultimately got over my dislike for the clown that is Joakim so I guess I would
eventually get over all the crap that comes with Tyler. If Blair is gone as expected, I don’t think it’s a terrible pick at 16. Especially if Henderson and Williams are gone as well as Blair.
by Scotter on Jun 1, 2009 3:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
ultimately, I agree
for now, I will participate in and encourage a heap of Pax-bashing.
Such as: We do know, even at his most trying and stressful times of this awful position he’s in, that he can scout the NCAA final four. :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 1, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and at pick 26
we will take goran suton. excuse me while i slit my wrists with a butter knife
by Calogero on Jun 1, 2009 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say Blair, Henderson and Williams are definitely my top-3 as well.
And I guess anyone after that, if those three are gone, are all pretty much “meh”. It’s like there won’t be a Budinger, Sam Young, Omri Casspi, Danny Green, Marcus Thornton, Wayne Ellington, etc. falling to 26 if the Bulls take Hansbrough at 16. So they might miss out on Mullens or Lawal or Daye or… or… or… so what?
The Bulls need to take high-floor guys here, and there really is no one else available at the wing or forward position after those three we mentioned.
I have no idea how weird a PF/C rotation of Tyrus Thomas, Tyler Hansbrough, Omer Asik and Joakim Noah would be, though. I have no idea why, but that weirds me out.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 1, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that
if Blair/Williams/Henderson aren’t at 16, there’s no one all that “thrilling” left to take. Really, though, even these three guys listed don’t make me jump through the roof with excitement, but I think they’d be very good picks at that spot. Unfortunately it looks like all three will probably be gone anyways.
So who are we looking at there at 16, realistically? Guys you listed like Green/Ellington/Thornton are clear reaches. Given that I agree with your stance on taking a high-floor guy, maybe Hansbrough isn’t the wort pick at 16. Then maybe at 26 the Bulls could grab Sam Young? Certainly a Hansbrough/Young draft is worse than a Blair/anyone draft, but how much worse? Probably a decent amount, so I’m beginning to think the Bulls should use whatever assets they can (draft picks, Salmons, Kirk, etc.) to move up into the top 10 and get whatever it takes to get Blair.
I don’t know if we really need to add two first-rounders to this team anyways, so if we could consolidate and get a guy we really like (such as Blair), then I think it would be well worth dumping one of our guards and/or a draft pick to get him. At least he would be a guy that the Bulls really want…in theory.
What I’m saying is, if the Bulls’ “guys” aren’t there at 16, I ultimately think it would be silly to reach for a player like Hansbrough. Instead, use that pick to move up if possible and hope Hansbrough or Young or Ellington or whoever out of the “second tier” falls to 26. Don’t just draft whatever is available at 16 and 26 if the vaunted prospects are gone.
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
by Illini15 on Jun 1, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He listed Green/Ellington/Thornton as candidates at 26, not 16.
I don’t think Hansbrough is that much of a reach at 16. I don’t think coming away with what I believe are going to be an effective backups at the 4 and 3 in Hansbrough and Young wouldn’t be that bad of a draft. And I do think the Bulls need to come away with two players from this draft. Not for this next season, but for the season after that.
I don’t think that Blair is a do whatever it takes kind of player. One of the big upsides to a guy like Blair is that he doesn’t cost much to acquire and you get a limited, but productive players. I’m not saying don’t trade up, but there’s a cost that there isn’t worth paying for a guy whose ability to stay on the court is going to be limited.
by Scotter on Jun 1, 2009 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Hansbrough and Young... Not excited about, not disappointed about.
If you never ask those guys to start more than 10 games a season (injuries, what-not), they’ll get a productive & cheap 2-3 years from them for 15 mpg starting in 2010-2011.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 1, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You think they need two players because of the cheap contracts right?
That’s about the only reason I see, but it’s certainly a worthy cause.
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
by Illini15 on Jun 1, 2009 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not just cheap. They need to guys who are able to play an effective 10 minutes per game and are locked into cheap
long term contracts if the Bulls eventually get their max contract star because you still need the guys who are 9th, 10th, and 11th in the rotation to contribute and get you through injuries in the regular season.
by Scotter on Jun 1, 2009 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you stole my post
I’m going to write one anyway!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 1, 2009 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey! I said it first just above.
Sheesh.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 1, 2009 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's really hard to trade up to a guy once a team gets them.
I guess The Great Pritch did it last year with Bayless and Indiana. The Bulls aren’t going to know who won’t be available at 16 until after they’re drafted. So if they see Williams taken at… 13, they now have to convince Indiana (okay, maybe they would be the ones) that they really didn’t want him, and that they should take the Bulls two picks instead. Maybe it works. Who knows?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 1, 2009 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, as Scotter said, those guys are who might be left at 26
I can’t differentiate anyone after those guys, so if they think Hansbrough has the highest floor of everyone available, snag him at 16, and take whomever they like best that’s left over at 26.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 1, 2009 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Sam Young at 26. His profile fits really well as an NBA role player.
He’s efficient in catch and shoot situations and he finishes well, and he’s long enough to defend the 3. He should be a guy that can defend, make the corner 3 and finish what ever opportunities he gets around the basket off of offensive rebounds and cuts.
by Scotter on Jun 1, 2009 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
best draft for you? blair and young?
holla pit, yo!
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 1, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was really hoping that T-Will was going to fall in the late 20s
But it looks like he’s risen.
How sweet would a Blair/Williams draft be? Especially in this 2009 draft. Damn.
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
by Illini15 on Jun 1, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm real impressed with Williams so far.
I didn’t watch a ton of games, but I have to question whether a college senior that shoots 58% from the FT line is ever going to be a reliable NBA shooter. And college senior that doesn’t finish well is a huge red flag for me as well. Maybe you could blame it on Pitino and his staff. There isn’t a single one of his players that comes to mind that really improved their skills during their college career. But, I’m not sure the coaching in Chicago would be much better. And until he can score in the NBA, his passing has limited value because the ball can’t be in his hands. If you’re looking to get Thabo back then I guess it’s a good pick and I’d pick him at 16 because he at least will be Thabo and have a chance to develop into a starting caliber player, but I think I’d be more excited about getting Henderson. Henderson is far from issue free, but I think his path to NBA is clearer.
by Scotter on Jun 1, 2009 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting.
What do you make of Williams’ senior year stats being so similar to Iguodala’s as a sophomore (aside from the FT%, obviously). Check it out here:
Williams as a senior (age 21 at graduation):
34.2 mins 12.5 pts 8.6 rebs 5.0 assists 2.3 steals .8 blocks .431 FG% .581 FT% .385 3FG% (57 of 148 from three)
Iggy as a sophomore (age 20 when he left early):
32.1 mins 12.9 pts 8.4 rebs 4.9 assists 1.6 steals .4 blocks .450 FG% .788 FT% 31.5 3FG% (23 of 73 from three)
I’ve always thought of Terrence Williams as a poor-man’s Iggy, and I think their similar production (and the fact that Williams was a year older when he reached this level) shows that this observation isn’t too far off. It’s clear that Williams has become a better shooter over his 4 years; both his FG% and 3FG% have generally increased over his 4 years at Louisville. The FT thing with him doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. I mean, a guy hitting 43% from the field and almost 39% from three should at least be in the 70% range from the line, so I’m not all that concerned about his free throws. I think he will improve. Plus, if his jump shot keeps getting better ( hopefully with better coaching, it will – though it might not be with the Bulls, heh) I think he can be a pretty darn productive player in the League.
You do bring up a good point about him not finishing well, but that’s another thing that I think would come with coaching. He’s way too strong and athletic to be a subpar finisher, especially at the college level. I think he will certainly improve in that area.
I think Williams would be a great guy to have on the floor when we have our backup PG in or if BG is playing point. He can handle the ball well and take pressure off of either guy. He’s an adept play-maker with great court vision and could certainly play point forward better than Thabo could (in my opinion). I also think his defensive potential is greater than Thabo’s, since he’s stronger and appears to be more athletic (still waiting to see the run/jump measurements from this year’s combine).
Obviously Williams won’t be Iguodala, but I think a poor-man’s version of Iggy would be a great fit with this roster. He can guard 1-3 and would fit well with our uptempo game, while providing another ballhandler that can make some plays and get in the lane. Plus, if we get rid of Salmons he could develop into an ideal swingman off the bench to back up BG (if re-signed) and Deng. If he’s at 16 (and Blair isn’t), I think we have to take him.
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
by Illini15 on Jun 1, 2009 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The FT shooting should be a concern because it indicates that his form isn't great and that could hurt his jump shooting %
at the next level.
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton
by fundamentallysound on Jun 1, 2009 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But doesn't it seem odd that he can still shoot
43% from the field and 39% from three (in 148 attempts)?
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
by Illini15 on Jun 1, 2009 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems like a fluke, especially when you consider he's never shot that well from 3 previously in his career
and his numbers from behind the arc in the previous three years are 31%, 26%, and 34%. His FT% has been consistently bad his whole career and got worse over 4 years, actually. (61%, 60%, 57%, and 58% in each respective year of his career). What that says to me is that he has bad shooting form. Add to that the fact that he finishes poorly around the rim and you have a recipe for offensive disaster.
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton
by fundamentallysound on Jun 1, 2009 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've seen that type of profile from a significant number of college players.
Making 75% of you’re FTs can be tougher task than knocking down 3 out of 8 college 3s, especially if you’re mostly taking open 3s, because you still only have to make 3 out of 8 shots.
And it’s not just his FTs. There’s his 3 point shots below. And if you use 2P FG% as a proxy for finishing that didn’t get any better from his freshman to his senior year: 46.7, 44.9, 46.0, and 45.9.
There just wasn’t clear improvement over four years in any shooting area, and his offensive role didn’t increase either. That raises questions about his upside.
by Scotter on Jun 1, 2009 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not just form, but consistency. Being able to shoot the same shot over and over again.
And I view FT shooting as a good proxy for overall improvement. It’s basically a neutral environment unaffected by teammates, schedule, offensive system etc. If a guy isn’t improving his FT% when it’s that bad over four years, it makes me question his ability to improve other areas of his game.
by Scotter on Jun 1, 2009 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right.
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton
by fundamentallysound on Jun 1, 2009 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As far as Andre goes.
I’ve looked at the Iggy comparison before. I was definitely in the camp that wanted to draft Andre. I think Andre showed clearer improvement from his freshman to sophomore year than Terrence did at any point his career. He was taking the various shots at the same rate his freshman and sophomore year, but he made big jumps in how often he made them as a sophomore. 5% jump in 2P FG% to 49%. 10% jumps in 3P and FT shooting.
And it’s not like Andre has become a great shooter in the NBA, but he makes enough FTs to make teams pay for fouling him and he’s been a great NBA finisher from his rookie year on. He’s was getting half his FGA at the rim his 1st couple of years, and getting a ton of dunks. And maybe Terrence does better in the NBA.
It’s not like I would be upset if the Bulls drafted him or the Iggy comparison is completely inappropriate. His athleticism, rebounding, and defense will definitely translate. Replacing Thabo with a similar, but more fluid athlete wouldn’t be the worse thing in the world. But, I think he’s may be hard to fit into a lineup off the bench for many of the same reasons that Thabo was hard to find a role for off the bench. One of the gifts Andre got was a chance to start at SF from Day 1, while basically just be asked to be an athlete. I’d be willing to hope that Williams becomes the 2nd coming off Paul Pressey though.
by Scotter on Jun 1, 2009 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts on Henderson in comparison.
1. He plays great defense, and he had to play man defense at Duke. He wasn’t pressing or sitting in the back line of a 2-3 zone very much. And he brings just as much size to the table as Williams.
2. He finishes well. This is something I really look for. And he may do better in the NBA where he’ll get many more transition opportunities than at Duke. And he was decent in isolation, much better than Williams.
3. Like Williams his major issue is shooting the ball. But, Henderson’s shooting has improved every season. His FT% has improved. He’s 3P shooting % has improved as well as his attempts. Because of that yearly improvement, I have more confidence in Henderson making significant improvements as a consistent shooter.
If neither one learns to shoot then Williams probably has more value because he rebounds and passes better. And if Gordon is really going to be resigned or Deng is likely to be traded that might push me more toward Williams. But, i think Henderson has a greater likely hood of being a starting SG in the league, and it’s a little easier to play a guy with Henderson’s skillset off the bench. But, the Bulls are in the position of hoping one slides to 16, rather than picking between them.
by Scotter on Jun 1, 2009 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for sharing...I really appreciate your thoughts on all of this stuff.
Another rec for you, sir.
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
by Illini15 on Jun 1, 2009 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's exactly what I would say.
Blair, Henderson, Williams….
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 1, 2009 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does Pitino have any of his guys in the league right now?
I can’t name one Louisville Pitino player in the NBA right now. My guess is zero.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Jun 2, 2009 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As far as Pitino Kentucky guys go
He had Jamal Mashburn, Scott Padgett, Antoine Walker, Jamal Magloire, Derek Anderson, Tony Delk, Walter McCarty, and Nazr Mohammed who all either are or were in the NBA.
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
by Illini15 on Jun 2, 2009 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Francisco Garcia?
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 2, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
indeed.
Why ‘observe’ when you can guess?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 2, 2009 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
damn typos..
**It’s NOT like there won’t be a…
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 1, 2009 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know...
Terrible pick at 16 is a strong way of saying it…its a reach at 16…
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Jun 1, 2009 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the Bulls don't know who they're going to draft
then how does Chad Ford know? Another non-scoring big isn’t exactly what the Bulls need. How about a backup combo guard or an offensive-minded forward? Hansbrough should be there at #16, but there will probably be better options on the board.
by kozzer on Jun 1, 2009 4:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
non-scoring? that's pretty much all Hansbrough excels at. He's a fantastic scorer. His rebounding is merely adequate
but he put up around 20 points per pace adjusted 40 minutes his entire college career (22+ in each of his last two years) on 60+% TS percentage. He can score. If he does that for 15 minutes a night, fantastic. He’s also not a guy that’s going to get outworked on defense, and his size is pretty solid as has been mentioned. He’s not a perfect player, but I know longer view him as Mark Madsen 2.0. He looks like a solid rotation player.
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton
by fundamentallysound on Jun 1, 2009 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no longer*
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton
by fundamentallysound on Jun 1, 2009 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've said this twice now,
but I do think he’s gonna be a much more effective player than most folks think. He was pretty much triple teamed for the last few years and still averaged an effecient 20 per game. He’s improved his jump shot, he’s strong around the hoop, and he’s got decent touch. Now he’s testing out well in terms of his size, and I’d be surprised if he doesn’t surprise as well in terms of his athleticism. Then I hear Mark Madsen comparisons – Jesus. These are the same people who are compared Adam Morrison to Larry Bird because they were white dudes with a ken for knee-high socks.
I agree he’s really, really frakking annoying. And I don’t think I’ll ever be able to like him. But frankly, if we can somehow aquire Bosh, TH is a tremendous fit – an energetic banger off the bench. Of course I would prefer Blair, as would any sane fan of basketball. But TH is a fairly skilled, albeit totally mindless, beast that you can sick on people for 15 minutes a game with good results. Like Noah, he’s a role player whose skillset is limited. But, similarly to Noah, he could also be a championship level role-player, and in this draft, that might have to cut it.
God I dislike him though. Especially compared to Blair, who plays with so much joy and actually rebounds.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Jun 1, 2009 5:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh, my cousin the Duke fan already has agreat nickname: Beaker
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 1, 2009 6:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
OK, I know this is a Hansbrough thread, but what about Ty Lawson?
There’s a reason I bring it up here. It’s not just that Ty and Tyler are teammates, but I think it makes for a really interesting contrast in how these guys are looked at.
There’s body vs. mind.
Tyler was routinely talked about as “undersized” and all moxie. But it turned out he’s not really undersized.
Ty is somewhat undersized, but has always looked absolutely fearless on the floor to me.
There’s the contrast of size vs. athleticism.
Athletically, one worries that despite Tyler being appropriately sized, he’s maybe not very quick or much of a jumper. Ty Lawson can pretty obviously get where ever he wants to be on the court.
There’s the contrast of skills.
With Tyler, I think there are legitimate concerns about whether his skills, which are considerable, will translate into high level success against super athletic competition. Will all those hustle boards get snatched away from him? Will those putbacks get put back in his face?
On the other hand, I look at Ty and see a guy whose skills seem to translate wonderfully to the pro game.
- He’s got good control of his dribble and he’s fast with the ball
- He looks strongenough to be able to get in the lane and pass or finish
- He’s got a wonderful shot
- He doesn’t make a lot of mistakes with the ball for a college PG.
Add all that up and if I had to guess, I’d think Ty Lawson makes a better pro player than Tyler Hansbrough. Probably by a decent margin. I mean, I can see Lawson being a borderline starter type. I can imagine Lawson being a quality starter as a PG.
Now, obviously for the Bulls, this presents the question of whether you take the best fit or the best player. Who happens to play the position our best player already plays. I tend to think quality is rare in the NBA and there’s usually the potential to make things work if you’ve got the best players.
It’d be a completely off the wall pick, but there are reasons If
by Sports2 on Jun 1, 2009 7:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
you got cut off, S2. Also, I don't think it's at all controversial to suspect Tywon will be better than Tyler. In fact, it's shocking to me
that Tywon has not gotten more love from NBA scouts. I think a lot of it is spin control, though. He’s blazing fast, an aggressive defender, makes great decisions and can get to the rim pretty much whenever he wants. You mean to tell me a guy like that can’t succeed in today’s NBA? He’s going to go somewhere and be very, very successful, I just don’t think it will be the Bulls. You don’t draft a PG in the first round when you already have Derrick Rose, it’s just not a smart decision.
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton
by fundamentallysound on Jun 1, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oops.. mean to say there are reasons I think it could work with the Bulls
I have to admit, I’m going a little bit beyond “playing the devil’s advocate” here because I pretty strongly believe in drafting the best player available if you think there’s a significant difference.
To put it simply, I’m completely comfortable with Derrick Rose as the PG, don’t get me wrong. But let’s also be honest and say he seems quite capable of playing off the ball in, for lack of a better term, Dwyane Wade style.
With good coaching, the upside of that combo could be freaking huge.
And the downside would be what? The worst case scenario would be that Lawson plays really well and Rose shows he’s wasted playing SG. In which case, you have to turn around and trade Lawson, because rose still projects to be quite a bit better.
But if Ty is playing well, even a half a season in, he’s probably raised his trade value and given you a real chip. On the other hand, drafting a guy who looks like a project doesn’t give you much value.
by Sports2 on Jun 1, 2009 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The downside is they get torched on defense so bad that's there no offensive advantage.
And Lawson never get to shown he’s good enough to create any trade value.
by Scotter on Jun 1, 2009 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you spend two years having Rose play SG and guarding SG's...
…while trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
And it’s very, very rare that a PG comes in plays well right away. It’s happened more recently, but Rose, Westbrook, Paul and WIlliams are all the exception to the general rule. So you excuse the first year on that basis, that is, if Lawson is good enough to beat out Hinrich. Then do you excuse the 2nd year as two PG’s trying to mesh well? Year 3?
And that’s assuming that Lawson can play “really well” which I think is a poor assumption.
This is also one of the general areas where I like to go to the wisdom of groups. If Lawson were truly “significantly better” (and not just a little better), we’d be hearing more talk about Lawson going higher than Hansbrough. (at least, from here on out)
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 1, 2009 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that's sort of a double-edged sword
If Lawson doesn’t play super great right out of the chute, well then he doesn’t change things that much. He simply fills in the cheap backup PG role, since we’re supposedly trading Kurt no matter what. Nor do I think he’s going to be some sort of obvious defensive disaster.
That means his trade value is lower, I suppose, dependent on how much he shows, but we’re no worse off filling one necessary backup hole than we are filling another (backup PF vs. backup PG).
I don’t think the wisdom of groups argument makes much sense when applied to picking individuals in the draft. A folk theorem whether we agree or not would be something like “don’t draft the BPA if your best player plays the same position” or “always draft the BPA”. Trying to apply the consensus view to draft picks, on the other hand, is manifestly nutty, since the we know that the consensus view on guys is frequently manifestly wrong.
That is, it’s hard to argue against something like “always draft the BPA”, because, while not provable, it’s pretty hard to find obvious counter examples. On the other hand, it’s pretty easy to find 10-20% of the average NBA draft that the “consensus” is just plain wrong on.
I also think much of the consensus simply evolves from teams often knowing who each other likes and various draft prognosticators planning accordingly. Much like the stock market, where almost every stock ends up with a positive outlook, the consensus tends to suck while the winners foster it, nod their heads, and smile to themselves when they get a great deal. And then smile even more when the next year everyone else attempts a half-assed version of their approach.
by Sports2 on Jun 1, 2009 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just see 0% chance Lawson and Rose can co-exist.
So I see zero upside. I’m against drafting a backup PG at 26 so naturally I’m against drafting one at 16.
I don’t believe at all that Ty Lawson would be the best player available. Is Tyler Hansbrough? I don’t know.
Mainly, I don’t want to fuck up Rose’s development in any shape or form just for some sort of hope that the backcourt works out. I actually think it’s quite foolish. Let’s not try to fit the franchise PG into a role he’s never played before so as to accommodate a 16th pick.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Jun 1, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough, that's a much better rationale :)
by Sports2 on Jun 2, 2009 6:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're only as good as your bench...
He could be the white Leon Powe and his energy and hustle are gonna come in handy once we get Lebron and Bosh. I keep telling myself this while i’m huddled in a corner naked.
"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta
by The Red Menace on Jun 2, 2009 7:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm talking about Hansbrough btw.
"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta
by The Red Menace on Jun 2, 2009 7:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just trying to figure out
what Tyler did to your clothes. Or does the thought of him cause you to remove them yourself? That is more energy and hustle than any one man should have.
by runningman on Jun 2, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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