Wade or Bosh? Sam Smith prefers... Wade
by bull83 on May 8, 2009 9:08 AM CDT
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Print[From the FanPosts - brings up an interesting question about team building. Personally, I think while D-Wade is the better player of the two, Bosh makes a bigger upgrade to the team at his position. Of course, in all likelihood neither will actually come available, but it gives us something to discuss today.
As a side note, all this new access feels really weird, like I'm a 16-year-old again sneaking out to "borrow" the car after my parents are in bed. So bull83, my apologies in advance if I wreck your fanpost while driving solo for the first time. -wjb]
I was reading Sam Smith's column on Bulls.com and he raised an interesting question: what should the Bulls this offseason? Getting Wade or Bosh? Keep the same team and wait for 2010?
In my opinion, I still think we should pursue Bosh instead of Wade right now if he becomes available. We need a inside scorer and Bosh can give us that. What would be need it to make the deal is another story. Besides, I think Rose is too much similar to Wade. He needs someone like Ben on his side, someone who can stand near the 3 point line and hit some 3. What do you guys think?
FanPosts are user-created posts from the BlogABull community, and are to be treated as the opinions and views of that particular user, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.
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It's better to link to the article, rather than quote the whole thing
You reduce site traffic by quoting instead of linking, and I think it’s technically copyright infringement.
Agreed...
I would love a Rose/Wade backcourt. I believe that despite their similarity, the right coach could find an offense that would score in bunches on a daily basis. I could see Rose and Wade both averaging 20+ ppg each and 15-20 assts a night between the 2. However, this would take an offensive genius. VDN is not that. I suppose if the Bulls were willing to get a real coach, this might be a great idea. However, I don’t think that will happen anytime soon. Even the dumbest coaches would have a heard time screwing up Rose Bosh. Although if Vinny refuses to space the floor on pick and rolls, he could screw that up too I suppose. Besides, the inside-outside balance would be great.
Bosh, and it's not close to me
Wouldn’t a frontcourt of Bosh and Noah be one of the best, and wouldn’t Bosh and Rose be awesome running pick and rolls? Rose and Wade are both players that should have the ball in their hands, I don’t see how having both of them works. Wade has improved as an outside shooter, but he’s not some catch-and-shoot guy. I love Wade, but I’m not sure how he and a player like Rose fit together offensively. Do they take turns driving?
Plus, I just think there’s a much more realistic chance of Bosh getting out of Toronto than Wade leaving Miami.
Look at the success of Manu Ginobli/Tony Parker in SA...
Granted, they have Timmy too (huge difference), but both of these guys need the ball in their hands and they have both been successful. Lot’s of dribble drive and dish. They space the floor well and kick to each other. The space the floor well too. True, Manu can be more of a jumpshooter, but he likes to drive it as well. Although, I will agree about the liklihood.
I gotta go with Bosh.
It’s rare that a donut team wins a championship…
"Worker bees can leave.
Even drones can fly away.
The Queen is their slave."
True, but we no longer got the GOAT
"Worker bees can leave.
Even drones can fly away.
The Queen is their slave."
Rose and Wade could be like Isaiah and Dumars both were interchangable in the backcourt.
I watched some of those games and depending on the night and matchups. Isaiah would be more of a SG and Dumars would run the offense and vice versa and it changed depending on who was on the court.
I have seen Wade and Rose come off of screens and shoot and I have seen Rose get a pass and shoot open Jumpers. Rose also plays very well off of the ball as he will cut to the basket.
It would be an unguardable backcourt. Deng would flourish as well as Noah and with Wade we would have someone who would get calls from refs and Wade could be like Jordan and Rose would be like Pippen.
Both being from Chicago would make it even sweeter. They can work out the ball handling issues as they learn to play off of each other.
Wade hands down
Is the better player, so Wade it is. Bosh is great, but he’ll never be in Wade’s league, and Wade’s explosiveness makes him so deadly and opens up looks for everyone else (and the Bulls have talent in many spots that could work well if a guy is getting left to cover Wade, i.e. Tyrus).
Rose is explosive, Wade’s more explosive, nobody could stop the 2 of them, and their similar athletic games, would make the Bulls a force to reckon with. Hell we could play Aaron Gray 40 minutes a game and still win because on the other end we’d be unbelievable and Wade is a good defender to boot (much much better than yfbb thinks, and he’s a great help defender—sometimes to a fault).
Bosh is a nice option would definitely help us, but he’s not a banger inside, and well he’s not nearly as explosive or as big a leader as D. Wade….
In the NBA you go for talent first, and in my mind there may be 1 more talented than Wade (Lebron) but none are currently better than Wade….
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
Bosh. I thnk he complements Rose better, is a great guy and...
plus, Wade is injury prone. He’s a phenomenal talent, but I feel like he’s going to be held together by screws by age 29.
And while Wade has this nice-guy image, I think it would be impossible for him to live in Chicago and not have hometown drama/issues. I just feel like he’ll stay in Miami.
Do you think we’d be able to get Bosh for less $ than Wade? And if so, should that factor into this at all? I’m a firm believer in a 3-allstar lineup.
Bosh...
It will make us a championship contender immediately. We cannot win a championship (or more) without a consistent low-post threat – with the added bonus that Bosh can stretch the floor with his shooting.
I love D-Wade and would love to see him on this team. However, I think we go after Bosh first – preferably this summer, but definitely by the trade deadline. Then, if that’s successful, there may be some other players in the 2010 free agent class that might come our way.
Q4T
Wade is fantastic and perhaps slightly better than Bosh. However, Bosh makes the team more balanced.
by sweetneyisfat on May 9, 2009 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Bosh...
And to me it’s not close…this about building a team that can contend for a title and you need a talented big man to do that…while Wade is very talented two guard, that position is not as important with dominant PG.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
Wade in a heartbeat
I don’t think people really understand the gap between Wade and Bosh as players. The difference between a top 5 player in the league and a top 10 to 25 player is substantial.
Wade takes the same% of his shots in the paint as Bosh and shot 66% in the paint compared to 59% for Bosh. There have been only 7 players with a 30 PER season., and only 11 seasons total. 3 of those players joined that group this last season, Lebron, Paul, and Wade. Wade won 43 games with his pile of crap this year, and Bosh won 33. Bosh puts the Bulls in position to be good and have a lucky year where they squeak into the finals like Detroit. Wade potentially puts the Bulls in contention every year.
by Scotter on May 8, 2009 1:16 PM CDT reply actions 5 recs
color
me rec’d!
Besides the stats (and the manipulation of which I’d expect could be the only way to make Bosh seem close to Wade), as I watched this year with an eye on him as a future Bull, Bosh didn’t impress as I expected. Looks like a less heady Pau to me.
While that would be “great” (most overused adjective ever!) with Rose and his potential “ceiling”, adding perennial MVP candidate Wade at SG to this Bulls team would have genuinely greater positive impact than an imaginary Kobe deal. (remember?)
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
Completely Wade
Not to be redundant, but Wade is a MVP quality talent who has a killer instinct and can be your closer for the end of playoff games. Bosh is great, but to me can only be the 2nd banana on a championship team which would be fine if Rose continues to develop. Would not be upset at all if the Bulls ended up with Bosh, but Wade is one of the top 3 players in the league and would have a greater positive impact on the team.
I believe Wade and Rose would excel together as Wade is an extremely unselfish player and both of them would help each other flourish via their playmaking/passing skills. Only worry would be the lack of 3 point shooting out of the 2, but I seen improvement in Wade this year and Rose will only get better.
I know this isn’t the greatest reason, but having 2 local kids leading the Bulls would give me goosebumps.
this guest blogger sucks!
(kidding)
I think it’s entirely a matter of targeting whoever is most available. If Bosh is available for a trade now, I don’t wait and see if Wade is testing free agency in a year.
All things equal on that front, I’d take Wade. The position and ‘fit’ stuff would sort itself out, splendidly.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 8, 2009 1:20 PM CDT reply actions
Yeah, I was thinking about waiting till tomorrow, to make sure you were good and gone.... ;)
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
nah this is better, I wasn't going to post today anyway.
and it’s not like I won’t be checking in once in a while (says ominously…)
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 8, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed, take whoever we can get
I also think the upgrade angle is moot if Gordon leaves.
That said, if we actually had the opportunity to pick, it would easily be Wade.
NO IT CAN NOT BE THAT SIMPLE!
Or can it?
We shouldn’t wait. Take them when we can and worry about the rest later.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
flagged
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
I can't choose between the two.
I agree with yfBB. The Bulls have the pieces to get someone like Bosh right now, and if he’s available this summer, try it.
I’d try to trade Bosh for Thomas + Deng (because Toronto has no wings w/o Moon and Marion leaving) + the 16th pick (it works, salary-wise). You keep the 26th pick because the Bulls will need depth. But if they wanted more , I’d include that pick over the 2010 1st-rounder, but then offer them one or the other. For Toronto, Calderon, Deng, Thomas and Bargnani aren’t anything special, but it’s at least something to build on, and I’m not sure they get more potential than those two. Something like Aldridge and Outlaw would be close, but… better?
Then, I try to get Gordon to sign for 5 years starting at 8,000,000 or lower. Doing that, keeps him away from BYC (trust me or look it up) so he can be traded mid-season. If he wants more starting out, I don’t think it’s a big deal for next season since they’d already be in the L.Tax w/ a damned good team, but I’d take a year off the length of the contract if he wanted more than $9,000,000 for next year.
Here’s the projected salary for next year if those two things happen: $74,855,823.
Lineup:
Rose / Hinrich
Gordon / Hinrich
Salmons / TiThomas / 2009Draft26
Bosh / TiThomas / 2009Draft26
Noah / Miller
It’s thin on top-talent (seven-deep), but that’s a team that finishes 3rd in the East behind Cleveland and Orlando (or maybe the sneak by Orland) and ahead of Boston. It gets to the 2nd round for sure and is even w/ Orlando gunning for the Eastern Conference Finals. If Reinsdorf is smart, he pays the luxury tax, knowing he’ll make up for it playoff revenues. If Reinsdorf is dumb and wants to be cheap, he trades Hinrich for non-guaranteed contracts.
So the Bulls are awesome (relatively speaking) next year. And going into 2010-2011, these could be the obligations: < $40,000,000 (that’s the first spreadsheet again).
I don’t know what I want to want think about Salmons if this happens. On one hand, you’d like him to opt out because he’s old and it gives more flexibility. On the other hand, the team will be short on SF’s if he does. Whatever, I say.
The Bulls take a big risk in asking Bosh to opt out so they can go after Wade, and they would need him to do that. I could see a Brand/B-Diddy situation happening. On the other hand, the Bulls could simply offer Bosh the max deal, and he won’t find anything better anywhere, so it’s not likely.
There are obviously worst-case and best-case scenarios. The good-case but with drawbacks is that Salmons opts out and the Heat take Hinrich and Gordon and next year’s first in a sign-and-trade. The Bulls still have Rose, Wade, Bosh and Noah (yippee!!!) but have zero depth besides this year’s San Antonio pick and Omer Asik. I don’t know why they’d do it, but then they also still have mild cap space (before signing Asik) to try to get someone.
Probably the absolute best-case scenario is as follows:
Bosh opts out
Salmons opts out
Bulls sign Wade outright to MAX deal
Bulls re-sign Bosh to MAX deal
Bulls are then able to trade Hinrich for a SF*
Bulls sign Asik
Bulls extend Noah
That would leave the lineup as:
Rose / Wade
Wade / Gordon
TradedSF / 2009draft26 / 2010draft~20
Bosh / Asik / 2010draft~20
Noah / Asik / Bosh
If the Bulls got one productive player out of this year’s late-first round pick and next year’s pick AND got a good player for Hinrich (see below) to play SF, that’s the team to beat in the whole of the NBA. Perhaps the best Guard and Frontline combo in the league. But lacking on wing depth, the easiest thing to get, though, no? Maybe. I don’t know. It all starts with getting Bosh for Deng + Tyrus mid-1st-round pick. Yeah, RIGHT!!!
I just spent too much time on this. I hope Gar PaxDorf is doing as much as I am. At least have a plan, guys!!!
*The tricky part, after signing Wade, the Bulls have Wade, Rose, Hinrich, Gordon. So they have to get rid of someone. If Hinrich plays next year well (and maybe they could do this at the trade deadline next year, too, they trade Hinrich for < 25-years-old that’s an under-achieving SF from one of the recent drafts and they also take on a bad contract (a team wants a “stable” PG and gets rid of a bad contract and gives up on an under achiever for it).
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on May 8, 2009 3:16 PM CDT reply actions 5 recs
I may have made mistakes in there, but I don't know.
I know this isn’t likely, so instead of saying that and just pointing out where I’m stupid, I’d also appreciate alternative suggestions. Or where I might just be flat-out wrong.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Way to complicated.
We should be happy if we just get Bosh.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on May 8, 2009 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
Bulls should just get Bosh and then do nothing else ever. I love that idea!
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
But you didn't rec his comment ...
I see what you did there!
Schwing!
"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
Why would we have Gordon if we have Rose and Wade?
Gordon would not be happy playing 20-25 minutes a game.
by LoveForTheGame on May 8, 2009 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions
If not, then trade him, I guess.
But I’d want to try it for a year. It would be the best offensive back-court rotation in the entire league. And if they don’t find a very dependable SF to play in crunch time, that would be one 3-guard line up (Rose, Gordon, Wade, Bosh, Noah), I would NOT mind seeing.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
No kidding.
That would be an awesome 3 guard rotation with Wade at the 3. If Hinrich can pull it off somewhat, think how nice it would be with Wade. And Gordon wouldn’t be playing 20 minutes with this line up. He would be getting the Hinrich 30 minutes, just off the bench rather than starting. And if he can’t come off the bench behind Wade, then he just doesn’t want to win and we should trade him. That being said, I really think BG would not have too much of a problem playing off the bench and torching guys on a regular basis. Especially considering who we got for the 3 spot, I could definitely see the 3 guard line up getting a lot of 4th quarter burn. And then we are really putting some awesome end of the game options out there at the same time. BG is a good guy. I think with a little time to gel, they could work out shots for everybody. Can you imagine Wade with the ball under 2 minutes to play with BG cutting to the corner and Rose cutting through the lane? Talk about pick your poison. They should have a clean shot from someone every time, you just hit the guy that the defense is fading off of. Crap, we could play Brad Miller and Noah with these three and still clean peoples clocks. And just think of the consecutive fast breaks with Rose and Wade. First time Wade lobs it to Rose for a thunder dunk and the second time, Rose lobs it to Wade. The roof blows off and the game is over! Sorry, I getting WAY carried away, but I can’t help it, this would be awesome.
Now, if we could throw Bosh in there with Miller or Noah… DAMN! That’s all I have to say.
I like your plan tyger, I honestly do
I just have one question: with Rose, Wade and BG on the same team and at the same time, couldn’t that be a problem? I mean, all of them like to handle the ball…
short answer: yes, it could be
i have no idea
But if you’re going w/ Wade and Rose already, I would think the offense would be similar w/ any pairing of Gordon, too. I’d guess the coach would try to work it:
Rose at PG and Wade at SG for 15 mins per game
Rose at PG and Gordon at SG for 10 mins per game
Wade at PG and Gordon at SG for 10 mins per game
All 3 at once for 10 mins.
Rose 35 mins total, all at PG
Wade 35 mins total, 15 at SG, 10 at PG, 10 at SF (i think he could do that)
Gordon 30 mins total, all at SG.
So, if you’re bringing in Wade, you’re already planning on an offense where you have two high-usage guards handling the ball a lot. Having Gordon just ensures the offense doesn’t have to change much (obviously, there’s a drop off, but no real change in play or philosophy). They’d really only have to worry about changing or adjusting the offense from when they go from having some semi-scrub at SF to having one of these high-usage players. So there’d be three very high-usage players out there which could stall the offense, but, hopefully by then, it would include two of the best shot-creators, playmakers in the entire league plus Ben Gordon. So maybe you have Bosh sitting those 10 mins w/ Noah and Asik (supposedly very similar players) hanging around the basket for finishes and put-backs.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Chicago Bulls...
the future worst defensive team in history.
Wade's a good defender, and interior defense is more important that perimeter.
Adding Wade over Hinrich makes them a worse defense? Wow, that’s some anti-Wade/pro-Hinrich bias right there.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Yeah what's that
Wade’s a very good defender. Sure he takes risks, but his d efficiency is very good as he’s one of the best help defenders in the game (Sometimes to a fault).
He takes risks in playing the passing lanes, but doubles back and gets stops if he misses. There was some analysis recently on I believe Foxsports.com that further proved he is a very good defender…
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
I think you're right.
Boooo me. Do you know how the Clippers/Brand/Davis thing worked last year?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Wasn't Brand a unrestricted free agent once he opted out?
I didn’t think unrestricted free agents had cap holds, but I could be wrong. And Baron’s contract was worth only a little over 10 million in the 1st year.
Unrestricted with Bird Rights
Counts as a cap hold for 150% of previous salary…not to exceed max salary.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
makes sense to me.
“I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn’t have to give up
that much!”
by Ghost of Guyton on May 9, 2009 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Wade.
As much as I dislike him, I’d love him hitting half court shots for the Bulls.
Rose,Wade, BG, Salmons, Noah, Deng, Thomas would be a nice athletic squad. Plus you’d weaken the Heat.
I'm less hesitant to trade away Tyrus and Noah for Bosh
Than I am trading those same guys for Wade.
So I guess I am more for Wade, even though he currently goes against the mold of our guard-heavy team. Bosh seems like teh wiser pick on paper, but I think Wade’s level of talent can’t be matched and if you have a run at him, then gotta do whatcha gotta do.
"Remember, I'm Italian".
It all depends on what you want.
Do you want one Finals run or a bunch of ECF runs?
"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
Sorry, stated that backwards now that I look at that.
I’m less hesitant to trade away Noah and Tyrus for WADE as I am for Bosh.
"Remember, I'm Italian".
Also, on the editorial comment:
I like cars!!!!!!!!! Can I drive? I’ve only crashed into my garage twice!!!!
"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
A healthy Wade is a true superstar talent
There are only a handful of true superstars currently in the NBA right now (LBJ, Kobe, Paul, Dwight Howard, Wade, and an ageing Tim Duncan) than can carry an entire franchise on their back.
I like Chris Bosh but I think he’s more of a complimentary star. He has post moves but is too skinny to play against the big dogs in the post. He often settles for the jumper when frustrated (instead of attacking the rim) and his defense is average at best.
While Bosh would complement Rose nicely and gives us a big man we desperately need, he isn’t the game changer that Wade is. And unlike a Melo/Iverson combo, both guys are extremely unselfish with the ball and should have no problems coexisting if the Bulls could add a 3 point gunner at the SF spot.
Read the blog the past two years but first post.....
So let me start off by saying I created this account about a month ago and the user name was reactionary to one of VDN many bad games…
My view of the Wade/Bosh argument is that Wade is obviously the superior talent but the complexity of an offense with Wade and Rose to work to it’s maximum potential, while possibly awesome is beyond Vinny’s comprehension. So the obvious changes would need to occur before I would feel comfortable with getting Wade.
Bosh on the other hand is a much easier piece for Vinny to plug in. Also I have not followed Bosh as much as Wade, since he is banished to Canada, but lets not discount the fact that is is a top 5 NBA center who would supply the desperately needed inside scoring threat the bulls need.
If Bosh is indeed available this summer or next year everyone except Rose and Noah should be available along with any future pick for the next five years(not sure you can trade picks that far out but it’s a testament to the faith I have in the bulls picking in the middle of the first round)
The Bulls desperately need that second superstar to take the pressure off Rose and Vinny’s hairdresser to constantly perform to perfection. And since no one can guarantee Wade will want to come here, I think they have already started talking to him in Miami about a knew deal too, if we can get Bosh we have to do it and take it from there after next season…
Hope I made a few legit points and love the blog!
by FIRE VINNY on May 8, 2009 4:37 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
As I was scrolling down reading the posts, I was reaching the same conclusion you did
All these trades that everyone proposes would absolutely overload VDN’s hardware.
I think we could reasonably get Artest and Bosh. My God, what would Vinny do?
Perhaps this is why so many of us want VDN gone
because he would be overloaded with the players we may be able to get.
Anything outside a chicago highschool team
is going to overload VDN’s hardware
You don't NOT get Wade or Bosh or both because VDN can't handle it.
As Bill Simmons would say, yes, that was a triple negative. Maybe they could overcome his sucktitude with their own awesomeness. Or maybe Gar Paxdorf would then spring the cash for a REAL coach. Or my favorite option. Wade says, I love the team and I would come, but VDN sucks. Get me a real coach and I’m there. And we do! Yippee!
Bosh..
it would take a really good coach to make Wade/Rose combo work (like Pop) and we have VDN…
and Wade is getting old and he is so injury prone, it’s scary.
Bosh will fit in easily, and he is still young
"...Lies, damned lies, and statistics."
Actually I'd say it's the opposite when it comes to coaching
Vinny could coach Rose/Wade a lot easier than Rose/Bosh. Rose/Wade would be exactly what works for the Bulls right now. Dribble penetration into the lane and every one cuts off of the penetration. It’s just Wade going 1 on 1 instead of Gordon and Salmons. And Wade creates a ton of fast break points, which require basically no coaching. Noah is going to get a lot more dunks off of Wade than Bosh. Wade by himself is an offense, he was 36% of Miami’s offense last year, and had the 5th highest assist rate in the league last season.
Bosh would require a better coach, but he’s not as good and needs a more structured offense to get the ball in good position. Plays need to be run to isolate him in a good spots. If you have Bosh the team needs much better offensive execution. Bosh fitting easily doesn’t make sense when none of the players on the roster have played with anybody like Bosh.
Right now
I see lots of dribbling and attempts at penetration but not really anyone cutting. Maybe once deng is back. I just wish our bigs would roll to the basket more often and more succesfully after setting a pick. I don’t understand particularly why thomas doesnt roll to the basket, he is much quicker and can jump higher than noah or whomever is defending him. all he would have to do is catch the ball and go up for a layup or a dunk.
The cutting only happens if dribble penetration is successful, which is different from the Skiles offense
The way this offense works is that the players cut from the perimeter to the basket when their defender helps or turns his head. When Rose, Gordon, or Salmons can’t beat their defender the offense stalls because there’s no natural counter to stopped penetration. It’s not a continuity offense with counters to whatever the defense does. When the offense worked against Boston both Thomas and Rose cut when their defender turned to the ball, and caught passes for easy baskets on the baseline. And it’s not as simple as the bigs rolling to the basket. It also takes a good pass that puts the big into position to score, and none of the Bulls guards do that well against good defense. Someone has to make the pass to Thomas, and no one on the team makes that pass consistently, a few guys don’t even look to make it. Although Derrick did improve some toward the end of the season.
What the hell are you talking about?
Bosh and Wade were both in the same draft! Wade’s 27 and Bosh is 25.
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
It's cool
By the way, just as a warning, I have a hyperactive, foul-mouthed, crazy cousin named Dan visiting , so if this account suddenly types **** you, **** BG, **** Blog-a-Bull, **** you nerds, and so on and so forth, well, it wasn’t me.
Things could be worse. We could have kept Boylan.
by stupidgenius on May 9, 2009 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Huh?
Ok, now I know it’s been said numerous times here but Wade over Bosh makes no sense to me at all.
Bosh is a franchise player. So is Rose and Wade.
But the big difference is the obvious one. I can’t remember a championship team that didn’t have a scoring big man.
I know Wade maybe the better of the two but he’s only slightly better IMO.
Not only would it create more space for Derrick to do his thing but he wouldn’t have to worry about someone else needing the ball in their hands to create.
All you have to do is look at the line ups and it even makes more sense.
Rose, Salmons, Deng, Bosh and Noah
compared to
Rose, Wade, Deng, Thomas and Noah
No brainer
Are you refering to Bill Wennington?
Sure, the Bulls were a freak of nature, but so is a back court of Wade and Rose. With continued growth (mentally and physically) from Noah and TT (if we didn’t go for Bosh) gives us some as many options as the Bulls teams in the paint in the late 90’s. Luc got a couple at the beginning of each game when they would force feed him lay ups and that was about it. Besides, the NBA is a new game nowadays. Quick guards rule. Penetration is the key now, not slow back to the basket scoring. You might have been right a couple decades ago, but not now.
Bill Cartwright, I think.
And the Pistons had Bill “Cheap Shot” Laimbeer, who could shoot the ball quite well.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on May 9, 2009 4:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Wade isn't slightly better than Bosh
He is much better. On ability alone it is a no brainer. They’ve both peaked, Bosh is a max 10 win share, 24 PER player, Wade is 15 win share, 30 PER.
The only things that would give me pause are age and injury history (not that Bosh has been injury-free, either).
You've got to be kidding right?
Calderon or the rookie Chalmers? Broke JO or Barngani? James Jones or Anthony Parker? Sure, the Heat had Beasley, but he is still a work in progress. These TOR guys aren’t crap players because the team had such a bad year this year. We had a terrible year last year with a lot of the same core guys as now (besides Salmons and Miller). Sometimes it just goes that way. Just like when everything comes together just right, sometimes it all just goes wrong at the same time. But I don’t know anyone who would say that the talent around Wade is better than the talent around Bosh.
trade Hinrich!!!
they should trade Hinrich for D Wade. He’s way better than him
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
http://www.talk-sports.net/nba/sucks.aspx/Kirk_Hinrich
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Well, there's a bunch of foul-mouthed, non-grammatical people for ya'.
’Fess up, Pic – which anonymous hater are you?
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
heh
actually this wasnt me at all. I leave myself logged on my computer (just for blogabull) and my cousins came over, and when i had left to get some food one of them jumped on decided to taint my name…they thought it would wreck my reputation on this site….whatever…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Wow
How many of those comments are from Rajan Rondo?
get D Wade
there is no comparison between D Wade n Bosh. Get D Wade and we’ll be good to go for next season!
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Wade or Bosh? Hell that I care, I would be happy of either
The big decision is either to go for it and risk ending up with Ron Mercer, like Sam Smith likes to stay.
Wade
But this is gonna be scary to have almost 70% of your offense coming from the backcourt. That and it would mean Deng’s on the way out as a team with both Wade AND Rose driving to the basket needs people to kick the ball out to, not cutters like Lu. A Bowen or Battier type to hit the open jumpers and lock down the other team’s best offensive threat would go great with Wade and a real coach.
Also, I am not sold on Bosh’s ability. We don’t see enough of him and considering the lack of dependable big men in the East, even Magloire was an all-star.
But either way, I don’t really care because any talent coming in is fine in my book.
I think they need some more secondary options on offense.
As Scotter mentioned above, the team runs a pick and pop, pick and roll type offense. When the pick doesn’t work and Rose, Gordon or Salmons weren’t able to penetrate, it was basically up to them stop and shoot, pull it out, pass it to the screener, etc. But it was a “stalling” type of offense as none of those options were really creating a secondary good shot.
If Thomas were setting a screen for Wade or Rose, at the same time, I’d like to see Deng cutting along the baseline off of a pick from the other big (so he can stay under the basket for a rebound) and flash to about 15 ft out from the baseline to the elbow. That way, Noah or Thomas at the elbow isn’t the only option if the penetration fails.
Deng could then shoot, or if the player isn’t being run seamlessly, cut to the hoop for his classic slashing. I could see Deng doing this 75% of the time he’s out there on offense.
Were the other three guys not involved in the play doing anything if the pick-and-pop didn’t work?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Never really thought of it that way.
Makes sense. But if you look at the proposed starting 5 of Noah-TT-Deng-Wade-Rose, none of them are good enough from 3 point range to keep defenses honest. Even on our bench the only legit threats to spread the floor are Salmons and possibly Hinrich.
Unless Deng or Rose can improve on their range over the off season, I’m all for Deng and his ridiculous contract getting shipped out.
this will sound n00bish
but I didn’t think Wade or Bosh was a possibility to acquire this offseason??
Let's Get Wade
our starting 5 can be Deng at Center, Wade at PF, Hinrich at SF, Gordon at SG and Rose at PG
At the start of the rumors about the prospect of getting Bosh,
I really did not like it, simply because he is i think too skinny, pairing him with Joakim would give us the skinniest froncourt ever, but the guy can really score, inside out. But i still love Amare Stoudemire, can do the same thing, plus, Bigger and Stronger.
Derrick Rose: Point GOD
too many cooks
You know the old saying.
The Bulls have made strides in chemistry this year and should try to keep this team more or less together for a while to see what develops.
The add-a-star move has a way of falling flat. Look at the Magic when they had Shaq, Scott, Grant, etc. Did not work out. Or the Lakers with Shaq and Kobe, it did work for a while but there was an inevitable chem explosion. I remember the Blazers after Allen first bought the team. For a while they had guys like Pippen, Schrempf, Steve Smith, (all big names) and Damon Stoudamire (still highly touted at that time). They flopped. Dallas after Cuban first bougtht the team, same deal. He was snapping up every big-name guy he could. Likewise Isaiah’s Knicks.
An NBA contender has to grow organically. It cannot be pieced together frankenstein style. Of course there is the Celtics, but keep in mind that Allen, Pierce & Garnett were all good passers with better-than-avg. assists at their position. I thought when they put those 3 together that they would do well, and I recall that many were skeptical at the time.
The Bulls almost have all the pieces in place to get to the finals.
We just need more development from Rose, Noah, and Thomas (?). If we add a player like Bosh I don’t think it will effect the overall makeup of the team, except the fact of adding an offensive post player. What’s the shame in that?
by LoveForTheGame on May 9, 2009 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions
The odds of gettingn Wade are close to zero...
by bullsfaninbigapple on May 10, 2009 1:19 AM CDT reply actions
you sir are wrong
If you want to crown em...
by JohnnyTruant on May 10, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Wade is AWESOME
DWWWWWAAAAAAAAANNNNYYYNNNNNEEE!
WWWWAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDDDDDDEE!
Hes in my fav 5 too!
I want neither
I don’t consider Bosh a Wade, and I don’t want Wade. I think Wade’s best years will be gone by the time he gets here. Bulls will be getting his shell. I think Paxson will be smart and not make a move that’s not worth it.
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