What will/should become of Hinrich?
by it'sokay573 on May 5, 2009 2:17 AM CDT
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PrintI'm new to BlogABull, but I've cruised the site for a while; I've really enjoyed reading the posts and comments. (I actually also quite like the edginess and hostility that somtimes color the discussions) As an admitted Hinrich fan, I thought there should be a post devoted to discussing his future, because I think it's a pretty important topic for the Bulls this summer.
What do you guys think the Bulls should do with Kirk? Also, what do you think they actually WILL do with Kirk? I would really like to see him get traded to a competivie team that would give him the opportunity to start at the point. He makes for a damn good sixth man, but he is indeed overpaid for such a role. And, as a (perhaps rare) fan of both Hinrich and Gordon, I would like to see Ben back in a Bulls uniform next year (though I would love to see just how awesome he would be playing for a competent offensive coach).
So, do you think Hinrich should be traded? If it becomes certain that Ben is not returning, do you still think Hinrich should be traded? And, if he doesn't get traded, what do you think his role with the Bulls should be? I've heard some talk about Kirk possibly starting at the 2 guard, but I figure that's pretty much certainly not going to happen. Even if Ben departs, I assume that Salmons will then start at the 2 and Deng will be back at the starting 3 spot.
I'm really curious to hear people's thoughts on the matter. I truly think Kirk can be an elite pg in the league, and I'd like to see him get the chance on a team other than the Bulls. Everyone knows about his defensive abilities, and I think his offensive ability is often overlooked, partly due to the fact that at times he seems to totally lose confidence on the offensive end and make himself a nonentity. But when he's keyed in, we all know he can shoot, and I think his ability to create is underrated. More than once have I seen Kirk perform a sick little crossover and then drill a midrange jumper.
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Hinrich to portland
dont know if its gonna happen during the offseason, or trade deadline, but its gonna happen. Gordon will get signed to the bulls but that doesnt mean that his fate will remain with the bulls. In the 2010 free agency theres alot of canidates for sg, as well as bigmen and the bulls may want to temper with that route.
As a fellow hinrich fan i just want to say that you are about two years too late to join this site…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
That 06-07 season made me think Kirk was
on his way to being an all-star; his numbers that year were actually very similar to Rose’s numbers this year. Unfortunately, those were probably the highest numbers Kirk will ever put up, while Roses has virtually no ceiling.
nah i think kirk will put up better numbers
the year after that year the skiles regime was poisoned, and kirk was part of a team with nothing set. this year he played well despite being in a similar situation. If he is traded to an actual team with an actual coach and system, expect his numbers to rise…the dude is better than blogabull somtimes gives him credit for (though not an all star…. :) )
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
It all depends...
on who’s willing to trade in an economic climate like this. For all the doom and gloom predicted in the sports arena only MLB has actually started a season during the current economic troubles. The Yankees are “struggling” to sell the high priced seats but it still seems to be relatively normal everywhere else. Team that suck (Baltimore, Pittsburgh, etc) are having trouble drawing a crowd just like last year and team that don’t (Cubs, Red Sox, Dodgers) aren’t.
All that said, the Trailblazer’s look like such a good trade partner I can’t believer they couldn’t pull something off at the trade deadline. How different would their playoffs have gone with Hinrich at PG instead of Steve Blake and Sergio Rodriguez?
Is Hinrich superior to Blake?
Defensively, yeah, but as a point guard, Hinrich has gotta be worse than Blake. Kirk has no vision and doesn’t really do anything productive with the ball in his hands. I like Hinrich’s role as a guard off of the bench as he provides decent shooting and very good defense, but I highly doubt he has what it takes to start for a good team in the Western Conference.
Also, with Jarred Bayless waiting in the wings, does it make sense for Portland to acquire a pricey vet like Hinirch when an in-house alternative could be ready to take over in a year or two?
We (Blazers fans) argue about that, since essentially Blake is a cheaper version of Hinrich when you just look at production
$4 million 1 year left vs. something like $26 million 3 years left. But while many fans would really like to keep Blake as the backup most agree something needs to be done. He is good at handling the ball and running the offense and hitting shots as an off-guard, but he is not aggressively penetrating, doesn’t pass inside very much, and has problems keeping quicker guards in front of him (which is about every other starter on western conference playoff teams safe for Fisher).
See here for an extensive guest commentary by Ben (one of the editors of Blazer’s Edge) in the local paper that sparked a lot of comments by fans there (not necessarily the most knowledgeable ones).
http://blog.oregonlive.com/blazers/2009/05/you_be_the_gm_steve_blake_1.html
A deal for Hinrich was discussed at the trade deadline between the two teams, and it’s fairly sure they will resume talks in the summer. There are a few other options, but such a deal would make sense for both. If we e.g. package Blake and probably one of the wings (Webster/Outlaw) for Hinrich and you get your second round pick in 2010 back and another pick or something like that. However it’s highly unlikely the Blazers would include Rudy Fernandez or Nic Batum in any deal.
The Blazers organization is still confident Bayless can become a special player according to recent interviews, but making him more than the first backup is highly unlikely next year, and the Blazers are now a playoff team so they need to have some stability at the starting PG spot and not a very streaky player learning the game. Sergio Rodriguez seems to be on his way out, it took him about 24 hours to have his agent talk to Spanish papers again that he wants a change of playing style or scenery. But I don’t think he would work great with the Bulls unless you want to make your second unit run, since with his bad outside shot he couldn’t play as an off-guard next to Rose like Hinrich and Blake can.
I don't see how Portland could talk trade with the Bulls...
Without offering Fernandez…neither Webster nor Outlaw fills a need for the Bulls and Fernandez is always going to be second fiddle behind Roy…
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
Well Portland needs to do something...
Looking at them in the playoffs, the roster there is just unbalanced. It’s the total opposite of the way Houston is constructed. On that Houston team, everyone knows their role and plays it to the fullest. Portland to me has a bunch of darn good players, almost like high quality tweeners, that can play everywhere. But I think that is the problem. I say Portland trade a guy like Feenandez or maybe even Oden. If they believe in Oden so much then trade Aldrige. But that way that team is set up now, I just don’t see it working.
That would be very extreme
To put it differently: Mike Finley doesn’t make lucky last second buzzer beaters against the Kings or the Hornets, and the Blazers don’t meat Houston but the Spurs or Hornets in the first round both of whom we matched up much better during the season. Or the Blazers execute down the stretch in the final minutes of game 3 and 4, and they take one on the road in Houston.
There is not that much need to tweak since all players in the rotation safe for Przybilla and Blake are <25. Our starting PG situation is a project for too long and the current starter should be the backup, we need a backup PF who can bang inside and grab rebounds (like Houston has e.g. in excess) instead of Frye, and maybe consolidate two small forwards into a better one but even that problem could solve itself over time.
But back to your problems of what to do with Hinrich and Gordon… :)
How about Kirk to Portland
some Portland players to Houston and Artest to the Bulls?
But the Rockets are looking pretty damn good right now
and, depending on how they end up doing this year, I don’t know that they would have any desire to make a big move like that. Imagine if Artest locks down Kobe and the Houston actually upset—do you really think they would want to part with him then?
I meant
“Imagine if Artest locks down Kobe and Houston actually upsets LA”
Seems more like Battier is bothering Kobe
"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
Roy had a much tougher time with Battier than Artest, too
with them on defense, that is. Artest on offense was the tougher matchup
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on May 5, 2009 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Battier is going to give a guy like Kobe more problems
because he specializes in reducing the efficiency of high usage scorers. Hinrich is the same kind of defender. On the flip side Artest can over whelm lesser players on defensive in a way that Battier and Hinrich can’t.
IIRC despite terrible offensive efficiency, Artest has shown up as having a bigger offensive impact than expected and less defensive impact according to adjust plus/minus.
battier
is amazing, in his way. but if he were a bull, ninety percent of b-a-b here would be saying he shouldn’t start.
kobe needs to wise up. set up his guys instead of taking thirty shots.
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
Kobe's 8 for 12 for 17 points in Game 2 so far.
Ouch. Torching.
"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
What about Hinrich + pick 16 for Blake or Outlaw + Fernandez + filler?
I’m not sure in the general that is “worth it” to the Bulls, but the Bulls could clear a ton of space, not re-sign Gordon and basically go forward with Rose, Fernandez, Deng, Thomas and Noah w/ a shit ton of space next year.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Rudy stays
not my favorite player but I’m in the minority
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on May 5, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Rudy is not being traded for a non all-star
Period.
"The brownies,'' Fernandez said after the game. "The brownies are good for me to make three-points.''
'need for the Bulls'
the need could be simply getting Hinrich off the books. Getting salary off in this ‘climate’ will be hard, and with Portland under the cap they’re one of the few teams who can take back more salary in a trade.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 5, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions
Blake is unguaranteed
If we don’t make Frye the QO Blazers have the cap space for a lopsided deal of Blake and picks for Kirk, and the Bulls have the option to keep or release Blake to save parts or all of Kirk’s salary. That would be the “salary dump” variant, but as said above other deals would be feasible.
The Blazers are eerily similar to the Bulls
A young playoff team where the GM is either too in love with his own product or too scared to take a risk. How could you not unload Raef Lafrentz’ contract? All I heard on the Blazers Edge was about Paul Allen’s Billions of dollars and how you all can go over the luxury tax because Paul Allen will spend money. Then a deal with the best expiring contract in a buyers market doesn’t go down because the Blazers wanted a landslide deal. Turned down deals for Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson and Gerald Wallace. Really?
Don’t be fools and think that all you need is more time and one or two solid FAs. Oden is a bust. Sorry, he is. You can’t tell me your team is better with him than Durant. Roy is phenomenal, but he is more at risk for injury than other players. Aldridge is a good second option but you all need that third big all-star. Hinrich isn’t it. But who is?
I just have a feeling that the Blazers are going to waste their opportunities to imrpove their team much like the Bulls did. Couldn’t trade for Gasol……that one hurts. How much better would we have been with Deng injured on the Grizzlies and Gasol as our post player.? We’d be playing Orlando for sure. And most likely a date with the Cavs in the East Finals.
Amen
I remember around the trade deadline folks on here were acting like I was crazy when I said that the Blazers will worry big time about money…..and that was like 1-2 days after they sent that warning on Darius Miles too.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
There's a difference between cap space and dollars spent, dingus.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
we have the LaFrentz money in cap space this summer
so it’s not like it was wasted. Just deferred.
draft dejuan blair
Are the Bulls actually young?
"The brownies,'' Fernandez said after the game. "The brownies are good for me to make three-points.''
Outlaw's contract isn't fully guaranteed, so that makes him more desirable
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
I think Hinrich is far superior to Blake
saying Kirk has no vision is ridiculous, as he’s the best passer on this team. Kirk’s biggest obstacle as a point guard has been two head coaches with shoddy (at best) offensive schemes. Even then, he’s always been much better than Steve Blake.
Bayless doesn’t seem to me like much of a point guard, and Blake crumbled in the playoffs. As far as western conference guards go, if teams will start guys like Steve Blake, Jamal Crawford, Beno Udrih, Mike Conley, and Sebastian Telfair, I think they’ll take a chance on Kirk Hinrich.
by darksmokepuncher on May 5, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
maybe Kirk has the vision
but he rarely tries to use it. He’s a safe passer. Not like Duh or anything, but he’s not going to aggressively attack the defense with his vision.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 5, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Kirk doesn't make many good passes.
He’s and average distributor, at best. Rarely have I seen him make a “nice” pass, and his strong suit has always been his defense. I don’t think I’m alone in saying that Hinrich doesn’t play the distributor role very well, and I’m talking about doing more than just passing to the open man. I agree with YFBB’s assessment of Hinrich being a safe passer.
"good" passes are the ones that lead to points being scored.
these are also known as “assists”. He’s second in assist on this team, and that’s with him coming off of the bench, and in a terrible offensive system. If he doesn’t play the distributor role very well, no one on this team does.
Who cares if he dribbles off of his forehead and between somebody’s legs before the points are scored. Jason Williams made a career off of his “nice” passes, and that dude sucked.
by darksmokepuncher on May 6, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree, nobody on this team runs the point very well.
That doesn’t make Kirk any better of a PG. Kirk posted 3.9 assists in 26+ minutes per game. Not terrible, but not very good either. He is serviceable, as he can put the ball where it should be per the play the coach drew up, but I look for more than that from a PG.
I saw several
Good passes to Noah in the paint in the last series alone. Kirk’s a good passer, his problem really is that he can’t shoot a layup or shoot close to the basket. Defender’s know this and it makes defending him on offense that much easier. I thought he’d have that down.
Kirk’s no Nash as a passer, but he’s a solid passer, always with decent assists, especially considering he’s passing to jump shooters far more than the PG peers he’s being judged against…..
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
I just read an
an article yesterday where Kirk said he would like to stay with the Bulls organization. Of course he also said he has no control over that.
I'm pretty sure no athlete has ever directly said they want out of their current team
without a caveat, at least. I really don’t see how he wouldn’t want to leave; he’s warming the bench, playing limited minutes, and all because a 20 year-old is better than him.
I completely agree
It would really surprise me if Kirk genuinely didn’t want to move on to a better situation, unless he maybe just feels at home in Chicago and is willing to take on a reduced role if the team’s future looks bright, which is obviously up for debate at this point.
Or, maybe he thinks he could start alongside Rose, but I think we would need a high powered, high scoring frontcourt in order for that to possibly be successful. I do think Hinrich could shoulder more of the scoring load than he did this year, but he sure isn’t any Gordon replacement.
Despite losing the starting spot to Rose this year, Hinrich did, for better or worse, play substantial and crucial minutes in the playoffs, so he clearly isn’t regarded as extraneous.
In the article he
said he really likes the organization and he and his wife love Chicago and as a kid he always wanted to play for the Bulls.
And I'm sure he feels that if he's staying, Gordon's going.
And he’ll be the starting SG over Salmons.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
You think?
I’d agree that he feels if he stays someone else (most likely Ben) is gone, meaning that he’ll still be getting quite a few minutes and having a good-sized role on the team. But you think he assumes he’d be starting SG over John?
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
I would if I were him.
Salmons isn’t that quick to guard SG’s and he’ll never be able to switch and help Rose guard PG’s if he’s struggling like Hinrich can.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Those are really good points
Still seems like, with Ben gone and Kirk staying, starting SG would be John’s job to lose, but maybe he would lose it. We never really got a chance to see him at SG with Lu going down.
Of course, that really has nothing to do with what Kirk’s thinking, I guess.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
Yeah, I shouldn't have said, "I'm sure..."
Just that, if I were Hinrich, I’d feel like the golden child (and there have been rumors he knows that, but nothing that i’d consider substantiated).
I guess the better first-response would have been what I said late: I would if I were him. I think you’d have to think like that to be in the NBA. You always need to believe you’re better than the next guy while recognizing your weaknesses.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I don't think he'd
start over John if he is still here. I think the idea of John starting was the reason Pax went after him.
I think John Salmons would start over Kirk too — I really like the idea of Rose, Salmons and Deng together defensively on the perimeter next season. Lot of size, length and athleticism. Once Rose gets better defensively, that could become one of the better perimeter defenses in the league.
Dude that's what
I just said, “I don’t think He’d (Kirk) start over John if he (Kirk) is still here.”
what?
He clearly knows that’s what you said, and he was agreeing with you. What’s the issue?
Atlanta hawks could be a possibility
The Hawks are pretty good, but financially not a powerhouse. Mike Bibby makes 15 mil. but is a free agent. If the Hawks let him go because they can’t agree on terms, then they are in desperate need of a PG. Acie Law gets very little playing time for them and is not the answer.
They should pay Gordon and keep Hinrich and pay the Luxury Tax.
They won’t, but that’s what they should do.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I'd love for them to do that this summer
But then they’ve got to be thinking trade next season, don’t you think? I have a hard time seeing the minutes work out long-term for everyone if Lu can stay healthy, even if Lu plays some at PF. And even with Lu playing some at PF, that leaves no room to bring someone else in and still have enough minutes for the front court rotation. Playoff minutes worked out great for everyone, but they also played a lot of OT and mainly 7 guys – the problem being that all our guys are good enough to deserve at least 30 minutes on their own merit (except probably Brad, just for stamina and age reasons), but not necessarily good enough in comparison to each other to deserve the minutes over another guy on the team.
The reason I’d like this, though, is that it gives the team another chance to see how Lu is going to play when healthy and whether John is going to keep up this level of play and what kind of jump Derrick has made defensively over the summer, and it gives them a lot of parts to play the trade market during the season. Guys would have to be patient early on with minutes though, but if it turns out Lu isn’t going to be healthy or doens’t play well with Derrick still, or John drops back off, or Derrick still isn’t getting it on defense, maybe the Bulls want to keep Kirk and trade someone else. If everyone is playing great early, it’s not like they couldn’t look for a trade next season still.
The drawback, particularly for Kirk, is that he seems most likely to see his minutes the most limited in this scenario, and if everyone comes back as hoped for he’s likely to be the one traded anyway. And if that’s the eventual outcome, as a Kirk fan I’d rather see him get the chance to move/get settled during the offseason and have training camp and preseason to get acclimated. I know he’s said all the right things, and it’s always possible he 100% believes them – maybe Pax has him sold on the being the 6th man, maybe that prolongs his career with less wear and tear, and he’s getting paid anyway. But I just can’t help believing that a big part of him wants to be starting at PG someplace, and I think he deserves to and would like to see that for him.
As far as possible trade partners, I’d love to see him in Portland. Part of that is highly selfish, because I’m hoping to be moving back there in the next year or so. But I also think he fits well in Portland. I don’t want or mean to take anything away from Steve Blake’s offensive output this season, because I do think he played very solid for him, but I personally think Kirk would be even better playing in that situation. And he has played great defense this year. He’s obviously more expensive, but I wouldn’t find it odd at all for the Blazers to be willing to pay for what that upgrade is given the position they’ve got their team in. And if Bayless proves to be the next great thing, well Kirk only has 3 years left and his contract is descending, so even looking at him as a stopgap measure for a year or two isn’t ridiculous – with the team where it’s at, they obviously don’t want to just chill the next couple of years waiting on Bayless.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
Keep in mind: I hate John Salmons.
:-P
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
With all the reported interest in him at the trade deadline
and with John coming here and putting up good numbers on a playoff team, seems like he’d be easy to move if he was the odd man out.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
Because the trio of Hinrich, Gordon and Rose was already really good...
…and you hope/expect Rose to get a lot better and that Gordon and Hinrich aren’t yet at the age of decline.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
How do they get better if they let them go?
I think one error we all make too often when looking at whether to sign/trade these two is acting like it’s a permanent commitment – let them go now or keep them forever! Obviously, that’s not the case. There are still the possibility of trades galore.
Cap space is nice, but to have it in this case means trading Kirk for either expiring garbage or unguaranteed contracts that are then cut, right? And with Ben, it means letting him walk. In either case, yes the Bulls are in a better cap condition than right up against the tax. But, at the same time, the team without Ben or without Kirk is a worse basketball product on the court – meaning we have to either sign or trade for someone to fill the gap, and we’re not all that likely to get someone who makes the team better for the space provided by just removing Kirk or Ben, so we’re back to no cap space.
And upgrades are nice. Certainly I’m not advocating turning down a deal that would improve the team to keep Kirk, or possibly to keep Ben. But I think the team has a better shot at pulling off a good trade with a variety of pieces on hand to offer. What if a team has a star PF available they feel the need to trade, but are looking for a SG rather than (primarily) a PG? With Kirk or Ben missing, that trade becomes much more difficult.
So the benefit of dumping Kirk for nothing and/or letting Ben walk (as opposed to paying the tax to keep both) is a worse team for 2009 with the possibility of picking up someone great in 2010. I think that’s a bigger risk than keeping the both at this point, then looking at trades down the road.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
I have a foolproof way to get better
let all your players go!
[e.g. turn question on head.]
"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
Is that meant as a one-year plan with a caveat to "explore other options (eg, trades) after next season"?
I know its not my money, but I’m assuming that paying Ben means nothing less than a 5-yr, ~$50 mil deal. If we do that, we’re committing ~$30 mil/yr to Ben, Kirk, and Loul through the 2011/12 season.
From a business perspective, that’s an awful lot of money when you consider Derrick and Fish might very well get more money minutes than each of those three (Derrick will definitely get the most burn, but Fish could very easily exceed 2 of the 3). Further, the cap was just under $60 mil this year, which means half the cap goes to three guys who won’t even play the most minutes.
If you think the team should keep Ben, Kirk, and Loul, I don’t think it makes much sense to keep Fish. Having said that, Fish has the best contract (or value) for the production he gives you…asuming he returns to his post trade/pre playoff production.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
Yes, one year. I suppose.
My ideal situation, which I realize probably has a 5% chance of happening.
Deng stays healthy enough that the Bulls want to keep him and Gordon, and Salmons opts out because he’s 31 and wants a 4 or 5 year contract. Miller leaves. Thomas. James.
Rose/Hinrich
Gordon/Hinrich/draft pick 1
Deng/draft pick 1/draft pick 2
Thomas/draft pick 2/asik
Noah/Asik
Ideally, they all play to their potential and don’t want to go outside their team. they get a good coach.
But even if not, they might have to make a move or two sign a 2010 FA outright, but I don’t think it would be impossible. Difficult, yes. But not impossible.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Does this lineup ever get out of the second round?
I don’t think so. Therefore, this lineup isn’t the answer. We have to use these players to get better.
Brilliant!
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Nah,
midget guards: BRILLIANT!
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
I don't know that it doesn't
But meanwhile, if a trade can’t be made for a definite upgrade, it’s a really competitive team.
You seem to be in the “jettison everything for loads of cap space” or the “throw it all in on a grand slam trade” mode. Am I reading that right? I think resigning Ben and being willing to pay the LT for one season makes the second (the grand slam trade) more likely.
And I’m not sure I want to trade a good 2009 for the gamble of 2010. I think there’s a way to have both, and I think it starts with holding onto the assets we have unless it’s in a trade for an upgrade.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
I agree with your last paragraph
but signing BG to a $50M/5 yr contract will not make it easy to trade him. Deng’s contract is bad enough as it is. Kirk’s is getting better with each passing year. It is going to be a challenge for Pax, but I am convinced that the above lineup will never get out of the second round.
what is it
with people thinking that this weak draft is going to produce players who can come in and immediately help the bulls. I doubt that with the 16th pick the 26th pick they are able to choose two players who will actually have an impact next year or even in two years. A good team doesnt rely on non lottery picks to play any significant minutes for their first year.
yea
those are the same people who draft guys like gilbert arenas, HE IS A SECOND ROUNDER PEOPLE!!!! That means he sucks, theres a reason its called the second round, theres a EVERY team in the nba passed him over Once, cuz he wasnt that good. God….only lottery picks, guys like kwame brown, sam bowie, Tyrus Thomas…those are the only guys who can actually contribute right away! And we are teh bulls, we arent just a good team we are a great team, we took the celtics to 7 freakin games, one of the best series of all time, our rookie coach gave doc rivers a run for his money, our bench is as deep as the ocean, we dont need non lottery picks, bah lets just say ben gordon and continue giving the nba some awesome first round games!
NOW THATS SARCASM!!!!
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
The smart people are only talking about finding the
typical high floor/low ceiling guys that can contribute 10 minutes or less per game off the bench as rookies. Leon Powe, Glen Davis, Carl Landry, etc. Or in this draft maybe a Dejuan Blair or somebody else.
There are always guys who can contribute to a team in every draft. Drafts are largely rated strong or weak based on the star potential, not how many solid bench guys a draft will produce.
First, that's a 2010 lineup which should be indicated by Asik being there.
And be the logic of the thread. Both guys would be behind Miller and Salmons this year.
Point 1 is wrong.
Second, they’re 8th and 9th in the rotation. I don’t understand how that’s “significant” minutes". In 240 mins, if Rose plays 35 mpg and Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, Thomas and Noah average 30 mpg (some more, some less) and Asik sees 20 mpg, those two guys will be seeing about 15 mpg each. Hardly “significant”. And in their second season.
Point 2 is wrong.
What is it with people not following basic logic?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
It messes with convoluted logic.
"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
ok
your right. I didnt read it through well enough. I just feel like lots of people are saying we can use draft picks that are late in the first round of a weak draft to the need for future role players (which would be ideal because they ahve low salaries). Then, I start thinking Aaron Gray or Cedric Simmons or petro. I just feel its not much of a guarantee that a player drafted at 16th and 26th or whatever the bulls have will become NBA players who can even contribute 10-15 minutes within two years. Landry, Millsap those guys are the exception. And by 2010 I would hope the bulls are contending for a championship. Getting to the second round and winning 40-50 games is only fun for a year or two.
one more thing
A line up of asik, noah, thomas might be a bit thin, literally. I think i saw a picture of Asik, he is like a taller version of noah but who knows,maybe noah and thomas and asik all pan out somehow and become a great frontline. But even if the bulls land bosh soehow in 2010 or amare or someone of that caliber, they need to make sure to have someone who wont give up 15-20 points to kendra perkins sheerly because of his ability to get two feet from the basket and shoot a baby hook shot.
I concur.
In my ideal world, which I put at 5% but is probably more like 1 or 2%, Noah and Asik both fill out by adding 10-15 pounds. Will they still get pushed around by guys that big? Sure. But not as much. And hopefully their skills would be refined enough that they would run someone like Perkins or Yao into the ground.
I mean, Noah may have gotten beat from time to time, but I think he improved as the series went on, and he was still only a 2nd year player. I wouldn’t mind the Bulls having two Noahs running around the court for 10-15 mpg.
Oh, and yeah, everything I’ve read and little I’ve seen, Asik is a slightly bigger version of Noah.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Wish Lamar was locked up, cuz
I wouldn’t mind seeing a Lamar for Hinrich and x swap….but not for Lamar’s future money…
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
hmmm
what SHOULD happen to him? – He should get traded to any willing takers as a pure salary dump in order to keep BG.
what WILL happen to him? – He will get officially adopted by Vinny over the summer and become known as Kurt Del Negro. Afterwards, they will celebrate by crying on each other’s shoulders and sharing a bowl of pasta. In the meantime, JR will feverishly call Vinny’s cell yelling “you beat me to it you bastard!”
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
PORTLAND. WANTS. HIM.
Well, the fans do at least.
Why? For the same reasons you do…
-Boy Scout
-Defense
-Consistent
-Team Player
-Right Age
He just fits.
We Blazer fans are of high intelligence. Do NOT argue with us and send us Kirk.
What would you expect for him? What we are likely willing to offer:
Sergio
Blake
Outlaw
Fyre
Picks #25 & #32
Money
Rights to some overseas players
#5
can you guys realistically acquire both Hinrich and Artest?
If so, that team would be ridiculous.
by darksmokepuncher on May 6, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd guess there is a 5% chance of Artest coming to Portland
Because
-Houston may be really high on him after this year/playoffs
-He has a bad history and the whole jailblazer era
-He doesn’t seem like a “Nate guy”
#5
Rudy Fernandez.
done. deal. sealed.
hahahahah
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I'll take Blake/Sergio and Outlaw please
and Portland is never letting Rudy go. He is probably second or third favorite Blazers in the org and among fans
"...Lies, damned lies, and statistics."
Fuck Rudy. He’s good but just the 21st century version of Dan Majerle. Don’t get me wrong I was a Thunder Dan fan. But I’m sick of hearing about Fernandez, dude can shoot but he’s not that great. Jesus.
But Majerle
played hella good D, and from day 1.
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
What makes Rudy good
is the game changing perfectly timed threes he makes…EVERY GAME. I don’t think he’s a good individual NBA player right now, but he is a playmaker and those are hard to come by in the NBA. He went a ridiculous number of consecutive games with a three, and they were always huge momentum swinging plays. He caught and finished a couple dozen alley oops and he was among the rookie leaders in steals. Oh, he also broke the record for most threes by a rookie. He’s not that well-rounded of a player yet but he deserves the recognition he gets. And I don’t understand how comparing him to Thunder Dan is a bad thing…? I love that comparison.
#5
exagerate much???
I mean, a ridiculous amount.
Fernandez only dunked 26 times all season. I doubt they were all alley oops.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
*exaggerate
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Damn I was caught!
I put down "a handful" at first, but it didnt seem to carry the weight like "a couple dozen" did. So yes.
BUT THE REST IS TRUE!!! (I think)
No it is true.
Potentially.
#5
Damn I was caught
I put down “a handful” at first, but it didnt seem to carry the weight like “a couple dozen” did. So yes.
BUT THE REST IS TRUE!!! (I think)
No it is true.
Potentially.
#5
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