Draft Watch 2009 (05/18)
*We lost our 2nd round pick to acquire the rights to Omer Asik last year.
**DraftExpress thinks we acquired Denver's pick, SI says we received San Antonio's pick (the difference is pick 26 vs 25).
Pick 16: 30% chance the player is above average.
Pick 26: 85% chance they suck.
who's available:
Who's in, who's out according to Chad Ford
links to mock draft sites and who the Bulls draft:
DraftExpress (last update: May, 24): T. Williams / M. Thornton
nbadraft.net (last update: May, 27): W. Ellington / T. Hansbrough
RealGM (last update: May, 11): J. Johnson / C. Budinger
Yahoo (last update: May, 20): T. Williams / D. Collison
ESPN (last update: May, 20): D. Blair / T. Douglas
InsideHoops (last update: May, 20): J. Holiday / P. Mills
ignore height (more or less):
Better measurements than height
- talks about how to value standing reach, wingspan, height
- shows large residuals when correlating standing reach or wingspan to height
quality of player vs pick:
How does each pick stack up to the 1st overall
NBA draft success and lessons --- part 2
- Big men bust. Late picks are good for guards and wings
thinking about college stats:
College stats (per 40 pace adjusted default)
How do NCAA statistics translate to the NBA ---
- Good: block, assist, rebound, 3 P%, and FT%; Bad: FTA, PPG, FG%, and FGA
draft related podcasts
Discusses Clark, Blair, Johnson, and Mullens.
Discusses Henderson, Williams Budinger, Thornton, Ellington
Doug Thonus and Jonathon Givony
- Discuss moving up in the draft and various bigs and wings
Bulls workouts (potential 1st round picks)
B.J. Mullens (3/22), D. Collison (3/24), M. Thornton (3/25), D. Blair (6/10), J. Flynn (5/24), P. Mills (5/24), P. Beverley (5/24), C. Budinger (5/24),
T. Hansbrough, T. Williams, D. Summer, T. Smith, D. Green (unknown)
FanPosts are user-created posts from the BlogABull community, and are to be treated as the opinions and views of that particular user, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.
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I'm liking Gerald Henderson
Especially if we let BG go. I think Pax would be doing backflips if he was around at 16. As for the later pick, I don’t think there’s any doubt that Hansborough will be a future former Bull.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on May 4, 2009 5:09 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
LOVE henderson.
If he falls to 16, it’s a NO BRAINER. I just can’t believe he will.
I watched ALOT of ACC ball this year (I’m from an ACC school) and he has the skills to be a legit NBA player. No idea how he’s not being talked about higher than mid-teens.
as do i
he can score but if he is struggling, his defense is better than what most new guys offer
I remember Michael dribbling at the top of the key. Everybody knew to just get the hell out of his way. - Steve Kerr
he looks like orlando's courtney lee to me
is that a fair assessment? I really only saw him in the tournament.
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
haha.. i watched a lot of henderson but none of lee
so i cant help u there.. but they guy can get to the rim from either side of the court, and is a good finisher. hes got a good mid range jumper, and has hit 3s(college) also. but i think his defense is really above average than the guys who are in this draft, though this draft really doesnt offer much.
I remember Michael dribbling at the top of the key. Everybody knew to just get the hell out of his way. - Steve Kerr
whoops
i ment to say that he can get to the rim strongley from his right.. from what i saw he tends to stay away from the left, other than to take jumpers
I remember Michael dribbling at the top of the key. Everybody knew to just get the hell out of his way. - Steve Kerr
Not a big Henderson fan
but he’s a dookie so he’s got the ever-favorable “grit/pedigree/winner” label that Pax loves. Did you read the DX scouting report on him?
Henderson’s usage rate is well below average, as he falls much closer to the lower tier prospects in terms of the amount of possessions he used (16.5 Pos/G) than he did to the top guys. Something that is a bit concerning is that he was not particularly efficient in the relatively small amount of possessions he did use. His .95 PPP is only slight above the average of .93, and while some of that can be accounted for by the fact that he doesn’t take many threes, his 44% shooting on logged possessions can’t.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on May 4, 2009 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Well if he didn't have some negatives he'd be top five pick
I don’t think you’re gonna find a perfect player at 16. I’m too lazy to go read it again, but I remember Draft Express being mostly positive about him. I think if he’s there at 16, he’ll be a Bull.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on May 4, 2009 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't get me wrong, Henderson is good
just not a good fit for us. He’s a good creater and a great finisher, but we already have that in Rose. I can’t think of any better comparison than maybe a short Thabo that can actually create offensively, DX says best case is Michael Finley but it also says he struggles with the catch-and-shoot so I guess it’s anybody’s guess.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on May 4, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I by no means think he's can't miss or something like that
I guess I just have really low standards when it comes to any pick after 10. It’s just so rare to find a real difference maker and it seems like Henderson has some good upside and has a definite position and at that spot, I’m sold. But I have to admit I watched barely any college hoops this year so I really don’t know too much about the other prospects…
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on May 4, 2009 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Right. He's got the athletic ability and glimpses of abilities to be a star player.
He could be one of the best perimeter defenders in the league and an above-average offensive player. When he was shooting over 40% from 3pt range for a while, it looked like he could that, but the shooting fell apart.
As it is, he merely projects as a complementary role player on offense and perimeter defense isn’t all that important to where you could be a superstar just off of that.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Well, it depends on how much you think he can improve his shot.
If you think he can approach 38% on 4 3ptFGA/gm, then he’s a good fit because of his defense, too. I agree, though, he’s not a perfect fit for the Bulls because of the uncertainty regarding his shooting.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Naturally, it all depends
on what happens with Gordon, Hinrich, Deng. Anyway, depending on what happens to those 3, I wouldn’t mind taking a big guy who might be a bit of a project early and then selecting someone like Marcus Thornton late to back up Rose, Gordon/Salmons.
"Worker bees can leave.
Even drones can fly away.
The Queen is their slave."
are you talking to yourself, tyger? Oh my.
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton
by fundamentallysound on May 4, 2009 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I just noticed that as well.
Heh.
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
What about Patrick Patterson?
Seems like he could be a Milsap-type player…
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
Does nobody like this guy?
He appears to be everything we need. A little undersized at 6’8 but that 7’2 wingspan is just what we need to grab boards and play in the low post.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on May 6, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Never heard of him ...
lemme look him up.
"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
I like him.
YEAH. I dunno about first pick, but if he survives to the second …
"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
he's like Blair, but way less talented
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton
by fundamentallysound on May 6, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I like him a lot @ the 26 pick
then we can reach and maybe go with a Jeff Teague/Jonny Flynn @ the 16
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
I would definitely be ok with Flynn at 16...
Reminds me of Rose alot, very quick and a good finisher around the rim with a decent jumpshot. Would make a perfect backup, that way there wouldn’t be any letdown at the PG position with the second group. Bring in a veteran or an assistant who played the point and let the two of them learn the position together
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Linsdey Hunter?
Assistant Coach Lindsey Hunter?
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
Yea maybe, he seems to have helped Rose throughout the season
and I don’t know how much longer he’ll be playing. Could be a really good fit, especially since he was known for his defense, which is probably the hardest thing for a young guard to learn.
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on May 7, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
I know they're likely drafting backups at 16...
…but shouldn’t they at least be drafting someone who has a chance to start at some point in their career w/ the Bulls? Especially w/ Hinrich on the team, Flynn would, at most, ever play more than 12 mpg per game for the Bulls. Seems like a waste of a pick.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Jonny Flynn was hurt at the end of the year...
Any word on the long term (ie: next season) projection of that injury (something with his shoulder I believe)?
Plus, I don’t think he hired an agent (to leave open the possibility of staying in school). With the addition of Rubio at the top of the draft all PG’s drop one rung on the draft ladder behind him.
I would think Flynn might be wise to stay in school another year.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on May 7, 2009 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions
This is incorrect.
He’s not the rebounder Blair is, but he’s a better jump shooter and has post moves about on par with Blair. Patterson does have a problem getting his shot blocked too often, but he’s be much better playing the pick and pop/roll than Blair would since he is way more mobile and more athletic. He would be a solid pick, but it sounds like he’s probably going back to school for another year anyways.
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
Aaaand it's official...
Patterson is going back for his junior season.
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
Blair was the best player on a number 1 seed and dominated the best conference in basketball.
Patrick Patterson couldn’t even get Kentucky to the tournament. Also, I’d like our next big to actually hit the defensive glass, which Blair does – much, much better than Patterson. Patterson is simply not that good.
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton
by fundamentallysound on May 8, 2009 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Clearly you never watched much of Kentucky last year.
Their roster – outside of Meeks – was absolutely horrendous. There wasn’t a single guy on the team who could consistently ever feed the post. And Gillispie was a disaster as coach. It will be fun to see how he does with a much, much more talented team next year and a PG who can actually get him the ball when after he has gained position. Personally, I think his offensive game is more versatile than Blair’s is. But yeah, Blair is a better rebounder and a more powerful player. He uses his body better than Patterson does when gaining position on the inside. I’d draft him over Patterson at this point because I think he’s more polished, but it’s much closer than you think.
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
Also,
Patterson shot 60% from the field this year in almost 34 mins/game. He also shot almost 77% from the line. Those are some damn impressive numbers for a guy who had absolutely no help on the inside.
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
I love Blair,
but Patterson is faster, more explosive athlete. Of course what makes Blair special (hands, strength, feet, mind) seperates him…
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
Chase Budinger is a soft, though more athletic, version of Luol Deng.
[ducks quickly, looks around for Khalid El-Amin]
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
Ha!
I see you, I’m just far too depressed to talk about the Bulls right now… Maybe next week.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on May 5, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
All good, bro!
And actually I’m so low on Deng right now that I’m inclined to think Budinger would be an upgrade.
Am I overreacting to Deng’s poor season and Salmons’ really good season? Absolutely.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
Wow, there is no way Budinger is better than Deng
overreactiong indeed. I know you guys have a love/hate thing going with Deng due to his excessive overpayment/underperformance, but Budinger had a fairly inconsistent season in a PAC-10 that was weak. Not sure you could equate these guys.
I'm from Dayton, and I saw Pitt play their first two rounds
I was really impressed by Sam Young. He has some serious scoring ability and awesome size for a 2 guard. I really liked his demeanor, too; he seemed really poised and unflappable. I was suprised to see that he’s being projected as only a late first rounder, meaning the Bull might have a legit shot at him. If we’re thinking about drafting a 2 guard because of Ben’s possible departure, I think the Bulls should give this guy a serious look.
Young is a 3, though.
He’s not quick enough on his feet to be a 2, especially in the NBA. I do like him, though, and wouldn’t mind taking him with our 2nd pick in the first round (if T-Will isn’t still available, that is).
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
You're right
Young indeed is a 3. I’m with you on T-Will—I actually saw him play, too. He’s really versatile and has that Pippen-like point forward type of game.
I suppose that if BG leaves the Bulls will need to make additions at the 3 spot as badly as they will at the 2. They’ll be stretched pretty thin at both spots.
Concur on T-Will
If Blair is around, I think you go after him since he could be the Bulls only post threat. Otherwise, I think T-Will would fit in great with this Bulls team especially if Gordon is let go. To me, he could be a all NBA defender with tons of potential if he can ever get a consistent J. Maybe a poormans Rajon Rondo type player who doesn’t score a ton, but posts high assist and rebounds for a guard while playing excellent D.
Trade the picks?
I’m starting to think we’d be better off trading for established/semi-established young talent. Maybe package a 1st with Tyrus (and a signed-to-be-traded Gordon) for an Amare/Bosh/West. Maybe send our late 1st for a backup SG who can shoot and defend a little.
Mid-to-late 1sts are such a crapshoot in most drafts that it’s no guarantee we get anything out of them by keeping them. And the Bulls aren’t the team to stock up on mediocre, cheap talent. We have just three players who we can expect to be here three years from now – Rose, Noah, Deng – and those three aren’t talented enough to compete on their own. So instead of spending those picks hoping to get a cheap 7th or 8th man, I’d rather either trade them for a known 7th or 8th man or try packaging them for a difference maker.
With Gordon’s contract up and 2010 a year away, this is such a crucial offseason for the future direction of this team. I’d hate to just get two more young kids in when we can be creative to get us to our goal faster.
While I agree trading the picks for a big time player is ideal
It’s been pointed out elsewhere on this site that having productive, low salary players on their rookie contracts can be an essential part of building a contending team, since you generally have a few stars swallowing all of the payroll. So if high floor, low ceiling players can be had for those picks, a la Dejuan Blair, I’m just as cool with that approach as well.
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
Spice that up a little...
Add a little Deng or Kirk and I think there has to be some way to get a deal done
I’m starting to think we’d be better off trading for established/semi-established young talent. Maybe package a 1st with Tyrus (and a signed-to-be-traded Gordon) for an Amare/Bosh/West
Umm… YA THINK?!! I mean come on now, were you really debating that? If that’s a possibility I’ll drive that group that you just said to Toronto or Phoenix myself.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on May 5, 2009 2:07 AM CDT up reply actions
lol
you may have to…as you may know, dorf is trying to cut back on costs and all…
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
Need a wing and an athletic big
I am thinking that a wing player that can play D, has a decent outside jumper, but more of a slasher was thinking I like in order
Williams
Ellington
Henderson
Green
Although I am not an authority so a player I havent seen, but with similar skill set to these would be a great compliment and then the big man I am thinking of is like
Johnson
Patterson
Dozier
Gibson
I think the draft would be great to get one out of each group, with the returning group and a solid off-season work, (kneeling a praying for a new coach who has an offensive philosophy) I think the Bulls would be entertaining and winners.
I am thinking that a wing player that can play D, has a decent outside jumper, but more of a slasher
We have one of those already, he wears a #9 jersey.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on May 5, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
LOVE Dozier!!!!!!
Kid can ball, needs another 15-20 pounds though.
Vinny...you look confused
I'm just gonna throw it out there . . .
Don’t be surprised if it’s Jrue Holiday.
With Hinrich being dangled this summer as trade bait and a chance Gordon is gone, there isn’t much depth at the PG position.
I’m just saying.
I'm thinking big with the first pick, and either big or maybe PG with the second
Unless the Bulls have already decided against resigning Ben, I don’t see how they could draft a SG. Last year he made some comments about not needing any more guards, and if anything that’s even more the case this year. Since the draft comes before negotiations with Ben can even start, drafting another SG just seems to me to set a really bad tone for the negotiations. A late round PG I don’t think would be seen as threatening to Ben’s role and minutes, and might be seen as even more evidence that Kirk is sincerely being shopped and the Bulls want to retain BG.
And I’d like a big first, just because I think that’s the biggest area of need. I’d actually rather take two bigs, because I prefer a more experienced PG backing up Derrick for at least another season or two. He’s been great and I think he’ll be even better next year, but I think a more veteran backup will do more for his continuing development than a rookie.
But with all that said, depending on who’s available I reserve the right to change my mind. I wouldn’t draft bigs I don’t like over a guard I do. But in this case, if they really do want to keep BG, I definitely think that’s the one position you don’t draft – if he goes, we do still have guys to fill in there.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
I don't think she would worry about Gordon's demeanor.
I feel certain he won’t see a 16th overall pick as a threat to him, and if they offer reasonable money, why would he care? Even w/ VDN’s retardedness this year, I doubt he ever saw Thabo as a threat. Luckily, most of the guys are SG/SF combos, so you can also (if it even mattered) play it off as, “Well, we think Salmons might eventually walk and we’re unsure of Deng’s health, so we wanted a backup.”
But I think the key point is that Gordon is just too confident in himself to take it personally. Especially if they offer a five year deal.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I don't think he would see it as a threat to PT per se,
But I do think he’d see it as further insult.
I do agree though it wouldn’t at all stop him from signing if the Bulls make the best offer, but if offers are close and the Bulls have just used their top draft pick on yet another guard when front court continues to be the weaker spot?
Just my take on it.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
I think it's important to take the best high floor player available
with the 1st pick regardless of need. And that’s almost always going to be a PF or wing. For example if Blair is gone, and Henderson is available, I take a chance on Henderson being a solid role player in a heart beat. These guys are being drafted to be in place for the 2010-11 season, not the 2009-10 season. There’s no point to reaching for a big guy in this draft.
Well, I do agree with that
I think my take on the whole thing right now is shaped by this idea that there’s not a whole lot of difference among players after the top couple of picks, so there will be bigs available at 16 who aren’t a reach. And on top of that I’m not especially sold on most of the SG options out there. But I would agree that if there’s a guy the Bulls really like over everyone else, they grab him if available no matter the position.
And maybe as draft workouts get going, I’ll change my mind and start having a stronger preference for some guys over others. Right now, outside of Dejuan Blair, who I think has a toughness inside we could use, I don’t really have an opinion on the guys available in our range. And given that I lean toward team need.
But I still think Ben would at least question drafting another guard with him hanging out there as a free agent, even if that doesn’t change anything.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
OTOH, would Blair destroy whatever confidence Tyrus Thomas has?
I mean, I don’t really care, because if the guy isn’t producing from here on out, whatever, but if it’s a thought for Gordon, it’s gotta be more so for Thomas.
But… if the Bulls had real coaches who communicated w/ players, Blair, Thomas, Noah, Asik seems like a lot of potential in a front court.
My only problem w/ Blair is that he can only play one position in the NBA. I don’t think he’s a starter, and I’d typically rather have versatility in backups. But still.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I think Blair is different enough from Thomas
Thomas won’t feel threatened. They really are polar opposites. Blair is this jovial guy that people seem to love (at least the media loves him) who’s big and strong and successful, even though he can’t jump. People don’t like Thomas’s attidude, he’s scrawny and gets pushed around, and despite the fact that he can outjump almost anyone on the court, he’s had a relatively unsuccessful career. Blair is the anti-Thomas. I also Think Blair could play some C (when teams go small, or against guys like Perkins), but you are right he doesn’t have much versatility.
I think a front court of Thomas, Blair, and Noah, would look pretty good.
Gee, tyger, I'm sensing you disagree with me about the whole
“pissing Ben off” thing?
The difference between Ben and Tyrus being, of course, that Tyrus in signed for next year and Ben isn’t. So if Ben takes the drafting of another shooting guard as more “lack of respect,” whether that’s a reasonable position to take or not, there’s yet one more reason not to sign with the Bulls. If I thought there was a spectacular SG prospect to be had, I probably wouldn’t worry about it – but so far I’m not super impressed with the potential SGs this year.
I don’t think Blair’s perfect, I just think he offers something not currently found on the team. But there are guys rated around the same level in the draft that I’ve never even seen play, so certainly there could be better fits out there.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
Well, sure I do.
I’ve not seen nor heard Gordon being pissed off about anything. He’s never been moody. Never raised an eyebrow when he’s been constantly demoted for lesser players. I think it’s unnecessary to inject that into his psychology now. Maybe it happens. Sure. Who knows?
And I think the self-esteem and development of Thomas (or realizing that there’s nothing there) is just as important and apt to the team as re-signing Ben Gordon. Thus, the comparison.
I mean, I agree with just about everything else you’ve said; I just don’t understand why injecting Gordon’s psychology into it is necessary when A), he’s never shown ill-effects in any manner of how’s been treated* and B) he already wanted to re-sign, twice, when the Bulls had near the exact same player they’d be drafting in 2009 when they had Sefolosha. If there’s any precedent to be gleaned, it’s in favor of Gordon not giving a shit, isn’t there? The Bulls had 17 SG’s last summer, one of which came in and immediately started over post-trade and was considered a “friend” of the new head coach, and the Golden Boy, and he still wanted to re-sign, even if it was too late.
So I see this:
Gordon is on the team.
Bulls draft “tall” SG at 16th overall in 2006
Bulls have 382,935 SG’s
Gordon becomes restricted Free Agent
Gordon is willing to sign contract
Gordon says everything is “just a business”
Bulls draft “tall” SG at 16th overall in 2009
Gordon gets sad and leaves?
So I’ve harped on this because I see one thing, you’re a very smart person, and you see it some other way. And I want to know what I’m missing and why I maybe shouldn’t be as enthusiastic as I am about the Bulls drafting a SG/SF, because, truth be told, I’d rather the Bulls take Henderson over Blair right now, and I’m split on Williams/Blair.
*okay, maybe his toe wasn’t hurt so bad last Fall
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I 100% agree that he has not let any of the BS that's gone on
affect him on the court. If the Bulls draft a SG but also resign Ben I don’t think it will affect him on the court next year.
I do think he outwardly showed several signs of irritation with the Bulls last offseason while trying to get a contract done. Maybe it was all just posturing and playing the media and he didn’t mean anything by it. IMO, he actually felt disrespected enough to break from the “it’s a business” line he normally sticks to and express his frustration publicly, which is not something he normally does.
I’m 99% positive he made a comment right around draft time about the Bulls not needing to draft another guard – and that was with Derrick Rose sitting out there. He said something last offseason about his minutes getting cut with the guard glut – now I’d agree that finding minutes and a starting role for Larry Hughes was crappy, but I also see him commenting on it as reflecting Ben’s state of mind about how he feels treated by the organization.
I think we’re probably in agreement that he has had reason at various times to feel the org does not respect him enough, whatever that means enough respect would be. I believe he would feel similarly about the Bulls drafting an SG, which would have to be done before negotiations are even permitted to start. I think he would almost certainly resign with the Bulls anyway if they offered a much better contract than anyone else. And if he did resign with the Bulls I think he would continue to not let it affect anything on the court. But if he has another offer that’s close to any offer the Bulls make, what does he do? Maybe he’s already tired enough of the BS he takes the other offer anyway, but he has recently said he’d like to stay and the Bulls have a brighter future than the teams with cap room available. I see the potential for having just drafted another SG being the straw that breaks the camel’s back, to speak in cliches, if he gets another viable offer. Last year was different, with the Bulls still having the right to match and no other teams really stepping up to force the issue.
So I just see a big distinction between someone acting uber-professionally while under contract regardless of the BS and being willing to sign another contract with that ties him to the team going forward if it seems that BS is continuing. And I wouldn’t consider that unprofessional of Ben at all – he’s been every ounce the pro I would have expected all these years, and if he feels the Bulls aren’t treating him fairly I wouldn’t blame him for wanting to be elsewhere.
But absolutely this is all colored by the fact that I’m completely not sold on Henderson, so why would I want to risk what I see as a reasonable reaction from Ben? Maybe as I start paying more attention to draft stuff there’s a guard that totally grabs my attention and I’ll figure screw Ben’s feelings, Bulls better not pass on this guy.
Anyway, it’s probably irrelevant, because the odds of the Bulls drafting a guard and both the Bulls and another team making similar offers to Ben are probably pretty slim. I still think Ben would feel slighted by it, but that’s just my opinion. I don’t know the guy personally, so I’m at least as likely to be wrong as right, if not more.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
by wjb1492 on May 7, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Cool. Thank you for the explanation.
Sorry to ask so much on a bball blog. I suck sometimes.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on May 8, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't mind
When (which is often) my opinions don’t make sense, I prefer to have them challenged. It either makes me think it through and justify why I feel that way or change/modify my opinion when someone points out that I’m being an idiot.
I do believe you should draft the best available, only using positional need as a tiebreaker, so I wasn’t being consistent with myself when I said we should pass on any SGs.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
Did anyone get to watch Austin Daye this year?
I saw a decent amount of Daye last year because I lived on the west coast back then, but I didn’t get to see how he played this year. His numbers were at least impressive according to DraftExpress. Thoughts on adding an even scrawnier player to our front court, if Blair is not available, or maybe even if he is?
Whenever I saw Daye play I groaned.
He looked awful. I saw him … I think in March Madness for a little, and last year. Just slow, ungainly … thin.
I wouldn’t pick him.
"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
He's not mature enough physically...
and his game is pretty raw. I watched a bit of Pac-10 this year and he didn’t play with any constitency. Not a fan for him in this draft, next year’s draft maybe….
A lot of inside game is predicated on bulk not height. Blair can get position with his bulk. Even though he can’t jump, he knows how to use size to get position for defense and rebounding. I like him as a backup PF, we need at least one big man who has body.
p.s Austin Daye sucks as does Budinger. Budinger looks like a slightly more talented Luke Walton.
Assuming the Bulls don't massively shake up the roster
They should draft Blair and 16 and Darren Collison at 26. Blair makes sense because he is a big strong body that can get boards (he has the highest rebound rate in all of the NCAA) fight with heavy guys down low (freeing Thomas and Noah to play help D and block shots) and works well as a passer out of the blocks (maybe he can eventually replace Miller if he learns to shoot a bit better). Collison provides insurance if we ever trade Hinrich or Gordon and is exactly the type of player that does much better in the pros then in college because of the difference in rules. Collison is fast, handles the ball well, can shoot the 3, and put pressure on the opposing point guard. He’s not strong at all which hurts him in college but in the pros he will get to the line because of the no-hand check rule.
I saw a mock draft that has the Bulls getting Lawson and Hansborough from NC
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on May 7, 2009 11:25 AM CDT reply actions
Could we do worse?
I have to say … uhhh … no.
"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
Very True..
it doesn’t get any worse then Tyler Hansborough unless we want to hold a hustle contest between him and Noah…(Noah’s wins)
We can always trade the picks
These are the top players overseas, who’s rights are owned:
Joel Freeland
Fran Vasquez
Serge Ibaka
Nikola Pekovic
Tiago Splitter
Josh Childress
They’ve all been dominant. They all play either PF or C, except Childress.
This really might be a good way to go with our 1st round pick if Blair and Henderson aren’t available, especially when you consider how few big men are available in this year’s draft.
Speaking of centers
DraftExpress has a nice writeup on Mullins-draft Mullins and keep Miller to show Mullins the ropes.
Then we have Noah, Miller Asik, Mullins. One of them ought to work or we’re poised for center by committee like we were in the ’90s.
Luckily for the Bulls, they don't have anyone as good as Noah and Miller.
Or do they? Unfortunately for the Bulls, they don’t have anyone as good as Durant. ::sshhhhhh:::
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Miller showing Mullens the ropes.
My thoughts exactly. One of Mullens weakness is his passing and Brad Miller can help him with that aspect of his game. I really like Noah getting some of his minutes at the four, so drafting a athletic center is very appealing to me. Projecting Mullens 3-4 years down the road next to Rose is exciting.
I just heard Podcast #117 and Doug pans Mullens pretty good
His Eddie Curry comparison sounds like the kiss of death.
Meh, if he never gets fat, doesn't have heart problems...
…and is never supposed to be a big part of the offense, just a guy off the bench, I’d take Eddy Curry at the 16th overall pick right now.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
The problem with Curry is that he wasn't motivated enough.
If he had been more motivated and worked harder, I’d take him in a heartbeat. Maybe 2nd in this draft behind Griffin.
I know. And that's a similar problem with Mullens.
I’m just saying that, if you told me that in two or three years, you could have the “peak” Eddy Curry (all the good AND the bad, included) at the 16th-overall pick, I’d take it.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Yeah I agree.
If he could be like Curry in 2005, or in his first couple years with the Knicks, I’d definitely take him. Man, Curry used to be a decent player back then. He led the league in FG% in 05, and actually averaged 19 point/game in 07.
Splitter...
I’ve begun to think he’s a myth.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
I'm Starting to Think...
We wait to make a deal until the season has started. It just makes more sense when u think about it. I think the buyer gets better value at the trade deadline then at draft time. At least it seems that way. The only blockbuster trades during draft time, I remember working are the Boston trades a couple years ago.
IMO, In order of importance, our needs are an inside presence(as always), a SG/SF, and a back up PG.
Guys I Like for Us:
DeJuan Blair PF
Gerald Henderson SG
Johnny Flynn PG
Terrance Williams SG/SF
Eric Maynor PG
Sam Young SF
BJ Mullens C
Wayne Ellington SG
I don’t think we go PG, because I’m interested to see what DaMarcus Nelson has developed into. He could become a very serviceable back up
So with that said I say we go after Terrance Williams and BJ Mullens.
Williams should be there at the 1st pick, and if he is snatch him up. He instantly can be plugged into our rotation, gives us some added insurance if BG rolls, and makes us a more athletic and better defensive team. I truly believe that he can play 3 positions in the league and be able to defend all 3. I said this in one of the other draft threads, but to me, he’s the best overall swingman in this draft, including Harden. If Blair is still there, I would seriously consider picking him.
The Mullens pick may draw some critcism. Yup, I know he probably won’t last until our 2nd pick, but hear me out. Yea, I know he looks kinda lackadaisical at times, but hear me out. First, I think by draft time we will have 3 to 4 guys targeted and like we did with Thabo, will strike a deal with someone to make sure we get the guy we want with that 2nd pick. Secondly, Mullens is 19/20 y.o., has an NBA body already, has good hands and is a great athlete. I believe that he didn’t really show up at OSU, becuz he never really wanted to be there. He had his eyes set on the NBA and just went thru the motions for a year. Bring him into a locker room with guys like D. Rose and Noah, guys who LIKE to work on their games and he should be ok. If we go for Blair with the 1st pick, then put Ellington or Young here.
2009-2010 Rotation:
PG: D. Rose Hinrich D. Nelson
SG: Salmons Gordon Williams
SF: Deng Salmons Williams
PF: Ty Thomas Noah Tim Thomas
C: Noah Miller Mullens
That leaves us with plenty of ammo to make a couple of trades once the season starts to come around and cover our ass if BG rolls. Man, look at the possibilities.. I really would enjoy watching that team as is, w/o any trades.
My two cents
This draft is pretty crappy and big en projects at the 26th and 16th pick are a horrible idea. No Sene’s or cedric simmons (is he still on the bulls?), or patrick o bryants. I like Henderson and Blair if one of them falls to #16. Henderson would especially help out righ away if hinrich is gone. Jrue Holiday should be getting more attention. think he has the potential to be a defensive stopper at both guard positions if he gains a little bit of weight and he, unlike hinrich, is quick enough to at least have the potential to not allow rondo, paul and d harris blow right by them. He probably wont be able to handle the point position at first but he seems useful as a piece moving forward.
Of course in an ideal world we would trade both draft picks, hinrich, and TT for marcus banks and Bosh or something like that. Yes, i just said marcus banks…he is not very good but all we need is a backup point guard for 10-12 minutes a game. All he would need to do is play some defense and not tun the ball over while passing it to miller or salmons or BG.
PS sign Marcin Gortat, if we dont get blair!!!!!!
Um no.
Banks is awful, he is great at not playing defense and turning the ball over. We have a backup PG in DeMarcus Nelson who is known for playing D. That’s good enough for me.
Why would Toronto want Hinrich as a 9 million dollar backup PG?
Bulls have inquired...
After taking some time off to recover from the bumps and bruises of the season, Thornton said he’s refreshed and ready to get down to business. He finished his last exam Tuesday and is in Chicago to work out under Josh Oppenheimer, a trainer who also works with former Tigers standout Tyrus Thomas and his Chicago Bulls teammate Ben Gordon.
Elfus said the consensus is that Thornton could go anywhere from the 18th to the 30th pick. Dallas, Chicago, Washington, Milwaukee and Minnesota, which has three first-round picks, have inquired.
“Everybody needs scorers, " Elfus said. “His stock has risen because the underclass group is not as strong.”
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
YESSSSSSS.
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton
by fundamentallysound on May 18, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions

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