McGraw: "Bulls owe it to fans to endure the luxury tax for one year"
[From the FanShots. Solid column from McGraw, though I'd be very surprised if the Bulls felt similarly. I foresee a nebulous (if real) 'economy' excuse as to not increase payroll into the tax even for one season, though they should be dealing from strength as one of the few solvent teams remaining. -ed.]
For the past several years, it was set in stone that the Bulls would not let their payroll grow beyond the luxury-tax threshold, which triggers a dollar-for-dollar tax on any excess salary.
They'll probably need to pay the tax in order to re-sign Gordon, and some team insiders believe there is a possibility that could happen.
almost 3 years ago
NormVanBeer
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fuk the tax dammit
"I want the pressure...I want it and I feed off of it. Whenever I get the ball in my hand, I calm down." Air Force One
hell no
I dont mind going over the tax and it would be nice to happen once, but I DO NOT want to do it for BG….. the man cant play defense, cant rebound, cant pass, and is just as erratic shooting as hinrich… HELL NO tell him to take his “tim thomas” like abilities somewhere else…
I'm so glad SBNation partnered w/ Yahoo.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on May 4, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I know.
Did you see the other fanpost saying they need to trade FOR Nocioni? It’s almost as if these guys don’t even watch the games…
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on May 4, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
we can only hope that mockery and shame is an effective deterrent.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 4, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
His hair is whispering sweet nothings into his ear.
"Worker bees can leave.
Even drones can fly away.
The Queen is their slave."
we're stepping up our game as best we can
there is definitely lots of complaining about hurt feelings going on around these parts.
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
I think people will figure out pretty easily in the offseason
BaB can be a cruel (yet fun) place.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on May 4, 2009 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Argument against paying tax
I think the Bulls should pay the tax if the front office thinks they can win the Championship next year by resigning Ben. My guess is the front office doesn’t think resigning Ben and giving Vinny another year with the same roster plus Deng will have them competing with Cleveland to go to the finals.
The Bulls will not be a favorite to win the east until 2 things are done.
1) Insider scorer. – Since MJ, Shaq (4), Duncan (4), KG (1), Exception Pistons( although Sheed was a better inside threat than the Bulls have on roster). This year Cavs would be an exception cause Lebron is so good), Lakers -Gasol and Kobe are great post threats).
2) Defensive minded coach- Since MJ – Pop (4) Phil (3) Brown (1)Doc and Thib (1) Exception – Riley( I dont remember that Heat team known for defense). This year both Lakers and Cavs have defensive minded coaches.
Since the Bulls do not have these two most important pieces in place, I say why waste money. McGraw made one point that made me question this thinking when he said that if they make a run at Bosh/Amare they could use the added depth Ben brings roster. I disagree because if they make a run at either it will be for Miller/ Tim T’s expiring deals and Tyrus( all big men). What Gar needs to do in this case is instead of thinking about filling Ben’s shoes in draft he should draft another C/PF incase a trade goes through in Feb.
Conlusion: The Bulls are two very important pieces away from competing against Lebron in the East. I don’t think resigning Ben and going over the luxury tax next year gets them any closer to competing against the Cavs( Bulls roster as is) or attaining the two pieces ( Big man and defensive coach) to become a favorite in the East.
That is extremely short-sighted
Its not about next year. Obviously they will not compete with Cleveland, etc. next year. They need him for the future. If the plan going forward is to create a complete team (e.g. acquiring Bosh) for 2010 and beyond, then Ben is an important part. Where else are you going to get someone with his scoring ability? Why give away a piece that will be very helpful in 2 years and beyond (and very hard to replace) so you don’t have to pay the tax for 1 year.
Because if you over pay for Ben
you are not going to be able to add those pieces we need.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
yes they would
they have tons of salary that will be shedding in 2010
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
You would still have to
resign Noah and Tyrus in the mean time so the expiring contracts would only give us so much.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
We are signing Tyrus?
We don’t even play him in games that matter the most.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
It's all hypothetical
but the Bulls have made offers to all their restricted free agents rather than letting them walk. Basically Paxson’s thinking is you keep what you draft unless you can trade them.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
You didn't say it but you don't say you wouldn't either.
Just mention there is not enough room. There will only be enough room to be an average team like we have now if we do not resign our other players as well.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
If Gordon takes
the same contract they offered him last year would you be happy or would you think that was still over paying?
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
I think that would be a fair deal for both sides.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
They made an
offer twice he turned it down both times. This is not all on the organization. I think BG’s agent has not done well by him.
by sue369 on May 4, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
We have already gone on about this to infinity but...
The deadline wasn’t the league deadline. It was an artificial one the Bulls set up. They could still have allowed him to sign it. It wasn’t like the law was going to show up at their door or that in the future a player would be all “But you let Ben do it”. Every negotiation is different and players know that. The important thing is getting what you want and I guess they didn’t want Gordon because they could have had him on their terms and turned him down.
I hate when things come down to “principle” rather than to the general good. What it comes down to is that fact that Gordon was willing to sign the offer that they had drawn up themselves. Supposedly the offer they wanted him to sign all summer. What does a day here or there have to do about it at that point? They still would get what they want if they just let him sign.
I just don’t think they wanted him anyway at that point. They gave him what they knew he’d think was a low ball and seemed willing to live with him walking. NOW they might want him seeing how Deng has turned out and how Rose is ready now, not in a few years. THEN I think they were quite pleased with themselves with how things turned out. So in my mind it is all on the organization. The final play was in their hands. They decided not to let him sign. In this situation it does come down to the final play not the zillion tiny things along the way.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
He knew the deadline.
He passed on it and changed his mind after it had passed. None of us know the tone in which it was turned down. That may be why the Bulls passed when he came back and said he would accept it. Like I said it is not all on the organization.
whatever
it’s like when you were a little kid, playing in the street and your mom yells: “get on this porch in 5 seconds or else!” You obviously don’t get there in 5 seconds, more like 1 minute…in any event, she lets the “or else” slide. Same scenario in my mind with the Gordon “negotiations”. Once he tried to accept the offer, they could’ve just said “great, we’re all happy”…but they didn’t. So it is on the org.
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
We have no idea
what went on in the discussions. Maybe BG’s agent was a giant ass. I never said it was all BG’s fault and I don’t see it as all the organizations fault either.
It's the NBA
I’m sure they have ran into giant asses before. Perhaps they themselves are giant asses. I witness the business world every day. You quickly learn to deal with asses or you go into another profession. All I know is that if I tell a car salesman what I want to pay for a car and we negotiate we can’t come to a deal — if the salesmen catches me in the parking lot and says he will sell it to me for the price I wanted all along I am going to get that car. Not walk away on principle or to make a point or because I had left the building already or found the salesmen difficult to negotiate with in the past. I would have won. Winning is what matters. The organization technically won. Then they decided they didn’t want Gordon. If Gordon leaves now that will remain the turning point and the reason we don’t have him. If they want Gordon and that is the case then it is their fault. If they don’t want Gordon then fine, no one’s fault because there is no longer a fault. They don’t want him and are happy with out them and him leaving is like winning. After this season I don’t see how they couldn’t regret having him signed for that price. It really was a favorable one for them.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on May 4, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Good post.
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
having a deadline was
there way of dealing with an ass. Let’s face it. Brothers has overpriced Gordon. He has given Gordon bad advice. They had plenty of time to accept the offer, and it’s perfectly reasonable for an organization to set a deadline and mean it. It’s not about winning or losing.
by KT on May 5, 2009 7:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Not the same
The Bulls had just drafted Rose and wanted to see what they could do with Gordon or Hinrich moving forward. Paxson was standing pat on moves because of the situation and that’s why the Bulls made a deadline. As we saw it did take to long and we weren’t able to make any moves.
And when my mom said be on the porch in 5 seconds I was on there in 5 seconds; there was no testing her.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Respect my AthorAtay!
If you’re the Mom in your scenario, and you don’t punish your kid for not following instructions, then when the kid’s little brother will see what just happened. He’ll try to get away with the same thing or worse in the future and you’ve just undermined your own authority. The kid has to go to his room without supper!
It’s a negotiation 101. You have to follow through or you’ll lose later negotiations. Say they agreed to Ben’s contract after the fact. Essentially, Ben’s agent was trying to get the Bulls to bid against themselves and Pax knew it… which is why he set the deadline. If he didn’t follow through this time, no other agent would respect him and the franchise would walked all over and end up with Larry Hughes like contracts in the future.
nice job...
…you missed the point too. The point is that the kid DID come (he didn’t ignore the directions), but he obviously couldn’t get back to the porch in 5 seconds unless he’s the Flash from the Super Friends. The “mom” realizes that and because she knows there was NO WAY he could get back in 5 seconds, she never lets her “or else” materialize. In other words it was an idle threat. She loves her child and all she wants is his safety.
The Bulls should want their player and want his services. If they REALLY did, WHEN he attempted to sign the deal should’ve been no consequence.
Sheesh…that’s the last time I ever try to use an analogy here
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
Your analogy = Fail
The Bulls are not dealing with kids.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
your understanding of things suck
keep up the good work though…
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
by NormVanBeer on May 5, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's not my understanding
You’re saying that the Bulls should have babied Gordon through the whole process. They are grown men and a business. They were up front with Gordon and let him know how they were going to move forward by giving him a deadline. They had Rose and Hinrich, didn’t want to outbid themselves, and had to make a decision on there guards. You only baby the superstars like Kobe and James.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
wow
you REALLY missed the point. You thought I said they should have “babied” Gordon?? It IS your understanding…or lack thereof.
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
by NormVanBeer on May 5, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Your lack of realism
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Luol Deng gave the Bulls a deadline
and they caved. Kurt and Noc signed when they were offered way more than market value. Ben Gordon was offered less than unrestricted free agent market value.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on May 5, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions
There's no way to know what market value for
Kirk and Deng was when the Bulls signed him. When Hinrich signed it was generally thought that Hinrich was taking less in exchange for long term security.
The Bulls couldn’t risk letting both Deng and Gordon go to restricted free agency. No one knows what Deng would have got on the open market if he was healthy this year. No one knows what Gordon will actually.
Not that I truly want to jump into the middle of this,
but how is it that Ben “obviously couldn’t” accept the offer before the deadline, therefore justifying that the threat should have just been an idle one?
They played a game of chicken, and Ben lost. But in reality everyone lost, because chicken is a really dumb game. But JR did maintain his hardass negotiating reputation, so I’m sure he feels like he won.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
I hope he "accepts" it again.
He tried once, with this economy he might try it again. Of course they’d have to offer it again. They’ve offered lower each year. Meh.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
2010
who is up in 2010: Salmons, Miller, Tim Thomas? Refresher Please!
Miller, Thomas and James (if he isn't forced out) are up
Salmons has a low-ball player option for 2011 that he’ll likely opt out of
"Worker bees can leave.
Even drones can fly away.
The Queen is their slave."
Jerome James
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-player-salaries/team/Bulls/
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 4, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Some of those numbers are really ugly.
Especially Deng’s contract. He has no trade value whatsoever. Hinrich’s deal goes down and we have lots of 2010 expiring deals. It’ll take a very creative and shrewd GM to improve this team and keep Gordon and stay under the lux tax. Is Pax that guy? (no)
Can you imagine the kind of contract Luol would get this year if we let him
become unrestricted like BG? He’d either sign some kind of one year deal or definitely get no more than the mid-level. Such a disaster. If we only didn’t sign him we’d have one of the best contract situations in the league.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on May 4, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
don't remind me...
…to Paxson’s credit (did I just say that?), he definitely didn’t know that Luol’s body would turn into peanut brittle this season. Even though he slightly overpaid for Lu, at the time, it was still a good feeling with the signing. Lu’s health and bad season (due to having NO offensive system at all) didn’t help matters.
Hopefully he can bounce back. He’ll never really earn the amount of his contract (who does?), but he still has a chance to get things right.
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
Deng
This is going to sound like hating, but what does he do well? He had a season where he hit a lot of mid-range jumpers. That skill now looks like an aberration. Other than, he’s got no post game, can’t handle the ball, and I always thought his defense was pretty poor.
I hope he proves me wrong, but I think that’s a devastating contract.
by hitlesswonder on May 4, 2009 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
It won't make any difference, but Deng seems like decent guy
And I wasn’t impressed by the way the Bulls hung him out to dry publicly when he got hurt this year.
by hitlesswonder on May 4, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree.
and sadly I wasn’t surprised by the Bulls reaction either.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 4, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions
defense
deng’s defense was definitely not poor. he is a bit slow when matched up against really quick sf and not strong enough to guard some of the Pf, which I think he should do more often. HE is definitely an above average defender though. I just hope teams really think Tyrus is a star in the making and give us amare or bosh for him and some expriing contracts.
Also, I think the bulls need to go after the polish hammer no matter what. I guess it depends if Omar Asik comes to America anytime soon, but Gortat or even Millsap at the right price would be nice additions.
I'm not sure about Millsap
I got the impression he wasn’t a traditional post-up player, although that would be OK if he can play above the rim and convert inside off of Rose. If he can play defense, the Bulls should definitely think about it.
by hitlesswonder on May 4, 2009 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Why would Reinsdorf ever want to up to payroll?
The Bulls have been around the 3rd most profitable NBA team for a couple years now, including 2008-2009. As always, JR will be a cheapass, and think that since what he’s been doing has resulted in the third most valuable NBA team, constantly doing the same thing will have the same result.
What the article is stating was that the Bulls may actually be better off paying the luxury tax
See the problem for the Bulls is Luol Deng. They bid against themselves in that contract. Nobody told them to give that guy that 71 mil. Then throw in Hinrich’s contract along with the Ben Wallace signing, and this thing really looks crazy. We should not accept the fact that the Bulls applied their resources in the wrong places. Now you mean to tell me that we have to let our most productive player go for NOTHING?
No, they should pay the luxury tax because it actually gives the team more options later. We shouldn’t look at it as over paying for a 6th man. God forbid that a team that sucked for the last 10 years but still enjoyed the highest attendance in the league, go over the luxury tax for one year. If you let BG walk and Deng is still terrible, you are basically sticking a fork in the 09-10 season. Then Salmons will be over 30, Hinrich will be heading there and Miller will be pretty much done.
by Dils on May 4, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
2 things I expect that have no direct correlation with each other
1. JR won’t go over the LT to resign Ben.
2. Ticket prices will increase before next year’s season.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on May 4, 2009 11:34 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I'd be surprised if they raised ticket prices
They were having to sell tickets for half off for pretty much the entire second half of the season.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
Do not...I repeat...do not resign Gordon
Vinny...you look confused
Is that how it works?
Hm? “Objection.” “Overruled.” “Oh, no, no, no. No, I STRENUOUSLY object.” “Oh. Well, if you strenuously object then I should take some time to reconsider.”
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on May 4, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the next step is contempt of court.
Throw know in the BaB slammer till he ponies up his $500 fine and apologizes to the court. ;)
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
You can't handle the truth!
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on May 5, 2009 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions
My predictions:
Gordon’s the “easiest” to let go, so they do.
Thomas is shopped and offered a $6 million/year extension at the same. Both Fail.
Bulls draft a SG/SF wing that defends and a PF w/ grit and hustle. Nothing else changes.
Next year:
Rose/Hinrich
Salmons/Hinrich/rookie1
Deng/Salmons/TiT/rookie1
Noah/Thomas/TiT/rookie2
Miller/Noah
Less certain about: Bulls win 43 games. Salmons busts back to reality. Noah progresses. Thomas regresses. Rose still can’t play defense (because his coaches suck) but progresses well everywhere else. Deng gets hurt again. Hinrich gets traded for an over-the-hill big man that provides “inside scoring” and busts. Bulls lose in the first round. Del Negro is fired. Two years wasted.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on May 4, 2009 1:00 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I think we share the same crystal balls
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 4, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions
though there is one major flaw
Hinrich will never be traded ever.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 4, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I just wanted to take a jab at Paxson's whole:
“we had some offers, but we think we can get something more valuable for him.”
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Elton Brand.
Oh yeeeah.
"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
all these big men
like elton brand and boozer are injury prone but so tempting.
He said something more valueable.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
Circa 2020:
“And now the starting lineup for your Chicago Bulls… Coached by Kurt Hinrich!”
Hinrich will never be traded ever.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on May 5, 2009 5:31 AM CDT up reply actions
I think Kirk will be a good coach someday, if that's what he wants to do.
He’s a smart player and he seems to like working with younger players and helping them out. He’d absolutely hate the media duties, though, wouldn’t he.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
Yes he would hate that.
I agree that he would be a good coach. Look how much Derrick has appreciated all that Kirk has helped him with.
If the above the "less certain about" happens, I won't be depressed.
Losing Gordon sucks, but it’s not the end of the world to me. Everything else is simply “standing pat” and drafting needs. I don’t think it’s likely, but I could see all the other stuff not happening (or happening) and this team being surprisingly good.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Frighteningly possible
I thought BG had a very good year and adapted to Rose well as the season progressed. But I don’t see this team as better than a 4-5 seed even if they do sign BG. They need one All Star caliber player to play with Rose. Signing BG hinders their ability do that.
by El Toro de Goro on May 4, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Because if there's anything that guarantees playoff success, it's having two all-stars
See: Yao Ming/Tracy McGrady
"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
BJ Armstrong was an all-star at one point
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
I think that's a pretty important observation
I’m definitely not down with the “Gordon sucks” crowd. I think people really underestimate how vital his ability to score is to the Bulls. Especially since having fantastic one on one offense was the way they won games this season. With him gone, next season will, I think, demonstrate that offense is actually an important skill even if low-talent grit and hustle get all the hype.
That being said, the Bulls are screwed in that signing Gordon doesn’t put them on course for championship. They need a talent boost beyond the current team, and signing Gordon doesn’t do anything about that. I could easily be persuaded that the best course of action is to save money and sign an athletic front-court player.
Of course what likely happens is the Bulls will muddle around conservatively, save money and try to contend with a roster including Deng, Hinrich, and Psycho-T for the foreseeable future.
by hitlesswonder on May 4, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Hinders or makes impossible?
This debate and exploration has happened here many times before, but if the Bulls are aiming for 2010, and the cap is between $55-$60, there are numerous ways to get/have plenty of room to sign a max player.
There’s even the argument that I’ve been making, that says having Gordon actually helps to get a player since he could be used in a sign-and-trade and get that player an extra year.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on May 4, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not really
After watching the league the last few years, if anything ought to be clear, it’s that
- To win you either have to be willing to spend and make good moves (Boston, LAL, Denver, Dallas, Phoenix, Miami) or get impossibly lucky (Tim Duncan, Manu, etc).
- That doesn’t mean spending = success. You have to make good moves in addition to being willing to spend. You have to recognize and opportunity. Miami buys Shaq. The Lakers buy Gasol. The Suns buy Nash. The Celtics buy Ray Allen, and then catapult themselves into position to trade for Garnett. The flailing Nuggets trade for Billups and suddenly look like they could at least give the Lakers a run for their money. And the Rockets with Artest, who just beat the Lakers last night. The Cavs spend on Mo Williams.
- The common element in those moves is that vaulting yourself into contention is not a “two steps forward, one step back” process anymore. All of these teams basically got where they were good by being willing to spend.
Importantly, not all of these teams were just “a piece away”. The Celtics are the most obvious example. They were doormats, and trading for Ray Allen seemed pretty whacked out by itself, because nobody thinks just Allen and Pierce would get anywhere.
Likewise, I don’t think Gordon, by himself, gets us into contention, although we’re certainly a better team with him on it. But if we keep options for picking up one of the several potentially difference-making players likely to be on the market, and quite young (Bosh and Amare being the most obvious), then we potentially get somewhere.
On the other hand, if we manage to get one of those guys but let Ben walk, I think we’re probably little different than if we keep Ben but don’t give get that big guy we need. Slightly better? Sure. But not likely contenders.
At the end of the day, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, and part of the reason the NBA ends up with things like KG going to play with Pierce and Allen, and Gasol going to play with Kobe, is that good players want to go play on good teams that have more than a puncher’s chance of contention. That should be a consideration too.
I agree with most of this
Except the starting front court.
I think VDN tries his best to keep Tyrus happy and at bay by leaving him in the starting line up but of course going back to Miller for the meaningful minutes.
Thus, Tyrus demanding a trade at some point.
I'll add one other thing
Rose gets hurt cause he spent the entire year getting beat up trying to guard PFs on swtiches.
painful, but great, true comment... it sucks!
DRose is gonna carry us into the playoffs and take it to another level from there...
Right.
Next season won’t be too different from this past season. 2010 will see progress for the Bulls.
by sweetneyisfat on May 6, 2009 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I do like the point of having assets to trade for Bosh at the February deadline.
Having Gordon, Hinrich, TT and Deng available to go after Bosh does make sense. I am not saying trade all for Bosh. Having them signed gives us options. We could not trade Gordon because that would be his base year. But having him gives us flexibility. This may be possible if BG doesn’t get offers close to what the the Bulls offered this year. Can the Bulls offer something like 4, 8, 9, 9, 10 million? This would keep them below the luxury tax.
you can only get a certain % raise per year
so you can’t start low like that…
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
a couple of thoughts on resigning BG.
1. the whole reason the bulls traded for salmons was to play him at the two next year with deng at the three. honestly, when it comes down to it, the bulls will be a lot harder to match up against with a lineup of rose, salmons, deng, miller/thomas, and noah offensively and defensively for obvious reasons.
2. bg basically proved during crunch time of game seven that he is not a superstar, and really the only reason to go into the lux tax is to retain/get a superstar or if you think the player your are signing will push you over the edge to championship contention, which bg wil not.
3. i’m pretty sure ben wants more money, hence his whole, the contract you sign is about how much an organization respects you, with money equating respect. and in my opinion ben did not earn himself a raise from last years contract offer.
Not sure why you listed three points
when you are basing your entire assessment of BG on game seven? A guy playing with a grade two torn hamstring. Right. A guy who played clutch in four out of seven games and was injured for three of them? By your assessment the entire team should be shopped. Every player played bad for long stretches in that game. And not all of them were injured. Ship them all off I guess.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on May 4, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
i by no means am basing my assessment of whether or not the bulls will give bg the money...
…he thinks he deserves entirely on game 7.
i’m saying the bulls probably will not resign him because a) they feel they have a replacement for his scoring, salmons. b) he is not a superstar and resigning him will not get us to the finals c) he wants a more money than they offered him last season.
i by no means am blaming our lose to the celtics on bg. there are many reasons why we lost the series the officiating and out coaching being the most prominent. and while i don’t feel good about how the bulls season ended, i also don’t feel bad about it either. i understand that bg was playing hurt, although, if he was not feeling 100% at the end fourth quarter of game seven, he should have given the ball up instead of forcing a needless air ball three and driving to the lane twice, when he knew he was going to get hacked.
ahem
a – not true
b- NOBODY on the team is a superstar
c – how do you know? There hasn’t been one mention of money yet.
You fail for making shit up
You fail for not hitting reply
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
Derrick Rose will up his point totals next year
when the refs call fouls for him. All-Star? Superstar? Probably.
by JockstrapNoah on May 4, 2009 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions
oh look, its the bill simmons retard theory on team building
“only sign players if they are superstars who can get you to championships.”
translation: be in the lottery every year.
Just trade hinrich
for god’s sake, i think pax could ahve puled the trigger mid season but didnt. He really needs to get rid of the ridiculous hinrich contract. Does anyone even remotely think t hat hinrich is worth more to the team than BG? Ship him to portland for channing frye or whatever junk and some salary cap relief. They like draft picks so we can include the draft picks too. Get a third team involved if they need to.
I think the Bulls would be a lot more likely to trade Hinrich
after signing Ben Gordon, even though trading him first would make it easier for them to sign Gordon. They’ll probably think that they need Hinrich as insurance in case Gordon walks. I think that’s pretty stupid, though, because it’s not like Hinrich could play a Gordon-like role anyway. I really want Hinrich to be traded—I would like to see him running the point on a playoff contender, and he wouldn’t start at the 2 next year even if the Bulls are Gordonless. It sounds like Hinrich may have really increased his trade value lately, and I think the Bulls should make trading him a priority. And I say that as a Hinrich fan.
How can the Bulls trade Hinrich when he is like a son to JR, and a favorite of the
suburban middle class “drones” fans?
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on May 5, 2009 5:37 AM CDT up reply actions
hah I did grow up in a middle class suburban household
I’m not a drone fan, though, which is why I think he should be traded. Management does seem to have a hard-on for him, however. This seems to be a recurring problem—irrational attachments that are interfering with actually making the team good.
Hinrich has mre versatility than BG.
Hinrich can play both the one and the two and is an above average defender. BG really can only play the two as an undersized SG who’s a defensive liability.
i’d risk rose developing tan overpaying for BG.
versatility or performance?
I’d rather have the better player than the one who can play more positions.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 5, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't worry about versatillity.
Vinny can make any player versatile. For example Noc at center, or playing Lindsay Hunter anywhere on the court at crunch time situations
by LoveForTheGame on May 6, 2009 12:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Noah, get out
I need to put Lindsya Hunter at center. We’ll see if the Celtics can defeat my amazing defensive plan now!!!
MUHAHAHAHA!
"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
haha
We need Linsay Hunter’s experience to INBOUND a fucking pass
by LoveForTheGame on May 6, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
You forgot to say SF.
He has played that position too. Heck, he should take a shot at PF as well. Salmons did it and Kirk has twice as much basketball passion, heart, and hard working know-how than Salmons. I’d rather have a guy who could play 4 positions average to bad than a guy who is killer at one position.
The only type of tweener I see us needing is a SG/SF tweener since Deng is so fragile and Gordon could use a defensive back up. And we already have Salmons. Rose is good enough at PG that he only needs an inexpensive backup. Salmons can back up SG/SF. We don’t need a 9 million dollar backup PG who supposedly can play every other position when PG is locked in 35+ minutes a night.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
Kurt can play center!
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on May 5, 2009 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Sure he can. That neck height really adds up.
Besides, he could be an awesome center because of all of his intangibles and love for the Bulls and team-playerness. I’d list them, but they are intangible.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
i my opinion
hinrich plays the Shooting guard about as good as BG plays point guard.
exactly
…in fact, I’d go as far as saying that Ben might play point slightly better than Kirk plays the 2. In any event, it’s a wash. The positions that Kirk can play should have no bearance on Ben.
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
BG's PER at PG is insane.
Kind of odd to see.
But yeah, he plays PG better than Kirk plays SG. Kirk is just not a good SG.
Oddly enough … from what I’ve seen he’s a decent SF [though he’s obviously giving up a lot].
"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
ha
you got me…I meant to say “bearing”…I ummm made up a word I guess :)
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
Bosh/Stoudamire
Are either if these two guys really the solution! Granted they are an upgrade over what we have, but do either of them put us in contention to come out of the east! On the subject of 2010 guys D-Wade seems like the guy other than LBJ who could put us over the top! Any ideas?
other threads already dedicated to that.
visit them if you like. or dont.
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
The problem with many of your arguments against signing Gordon is that...
…you all think Gordon has to be “the key” to winning a championship and are afraid to pay him what he’s likely worth. He’s not “the key” but he’s one of the keys on the key ring for sure. Look at the teams in the playoffs this year. For the most part, they all either had 3 guys making at or over $10M/yr or they had a bunch of guys in their rookie deals playing really well (Portland). Gordon could EASILY replace the production of the 3rd option of any team in the playoffs (and quite honestly would probably fare better than he already has when you take the pressure of being the one guy who can truly turn the game around on a consistent basis) and it’s not a reach to picture him as a second option next to a great player because everybody in the world now knows that Gordon is a true offensive weapon. The problem with the Bulls is that their 3 big money guys are Miller, Deng and Hinrich….neither of which are more productive than Gordon on a consistent basis. I’ve read where people think Gordon should get the MLE or about $6 or $7M/yr. But in an earlier post I saw a suggestion that the Bulls extend Tyrus Thomas at $6M/yr. Do any of you think for one second that Ben Gordon doesn’t think he’s more valuable to the Bulls than Tyrus Thomas? Do any of you think that Thomas is more valuable than Gordon? You’ve gotta be kidding me if you do.
If you follow the logic above about how most of the good teams have 3 guys making at or above $10M/yr then you see that Gordon is due a payday of AT LEAST $10m/yr. BUT what you have to do after that is move two of those other big contracts (Deng/Hinrich/Miller or a combination of Tim and Tyrus Thomas) in order to get a REAL DEAL #1 superstar type player who is on the outs in his current organization and can be had for less than what he’s really worth (but the money will match). Then that superstar becomes option #1, Rose slides nicely into the #2 spot (but as the guy who makes all the decisions) and Gordon fits nicely as a third option (who will still manage to average 20 ppg).
If this happens then this will make the Bulls a better team almost immediately. They’ll pay a little luxury tax money but they’ll all of a sudden be a team to be reckoned with. They’ll have all-star talent leading the way (whoever the trade is made for and Derrick Rose) and they’ll have a cold-blooded sniper waiting in the wings to do his thing (Gordon).
BUT what you have to do after that is move two of those other big contracts (Deng/Hinrich/Miller or a combination of Tim and Tyrus Thomas) in order to get a REAL DEAL #1 superstar type player who is on the outs in his current organization and can be had for less than what he’s really worth (but the money will match)
Gee, finding that guy makes overpaying Ben Gordon totally worth it…Or, we don’t sign Gordon, find that guy, and still have one of those guys to assume that third option that you are considering pay Gordon $10M+ to fill…
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
it's no so easy
to find that guy when he plays for another team and has no incentive to sign with you over his old team.
Nobody said it'd be easy...and that's why none of us are GMs.
But this is the move that I think will make the Bulls most dangerous. We have to keep Ben Gordon. I wouldn’t say that fear is a good word because nobody is afraid of Ben Gordon. But everybody in the league respects Gordon’s offensive ability. Beyond that, people respect Derrick Rose’s game but that’s pretty much it. We don’t give away one of our only true offensive weapons unless you have another big scorer waiting in the wings….which the Bulls don’t have.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 5, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Paying Gordon $10M/yr is NOT overpaying him. He'd be a top 3 option on basically...
…any team in the league and the prevailing rate for one of those guys starts right around at least $10M/yr.
And I can say with complete confidence that we have NO ONE on our roster (except for Derrick Rose in the next few seasons) capable of drawing the defensive attention that Gordon garners. Deng and Hinrich have been favorite sons around here and have been catered to for the last 4 years, yet Gordon is the one who has thrived the most. NO WAY either of those guys gives you offensively UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE what Gordon gives you.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 5, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
That's why so many are interested in getting Bosh for Tyrus + picks + hinrich or Deng.
And then trying to re-sign Gordon. Rose, Gordon, Bosh and Noah is a damn good start. Thrown in a Salmons and Miller for a year, bring in Asik in a year, and hope you get a good enough filler to replace whichever of Deng and Hinrich that leaves.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
What does this Omar Asik's game look like?
Is he a solid player or is he Dalibor Bagaric (Bagarbage) re-incarnated?
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 5, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
He's basically Noah. Probably not as good.
Athletic and long, but not overly so. Great at putbacks, good at rebounding, blocking shots. Unrefined offense but maybe a little better than Noah. Not big and strong but has the frame to be a little more so. Maybe a little bigger than Noah.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Love it
Why is scoring the only thing most of the posters here look for? From most of the comments it sounds like you have play ball, but do you really know how to play ball? Did you ever win? I bring this up b/c as has happened for the past couple years (since the playoff run against miami) BG has refused to play any kind of D. I am sorry, but running into the pick and throwing up your arms, or just stopping short of the pick and sending an arm up to tell someone to pick up your guy…. and on top of that then not putting a body on someone for a freakin rebound is just inexcuseable. Hell, I hated starbury in his day, but I would taken his play over BG these last couple years.
Please dont say he hit big shots, SO WHAT???, having a dumb coach and no offensive philosophy, but to give one player the ball and tell him to hit shot after shot most close games is just stupid and not basketball. I think without BG you will see more team ball and better cohesion and more confidence from players who arent “stars”. Just look at Houston minus the great scorer McGrady. …….. makes me laugh, good luck to BG and I am sure he may be a nice guy, but 6ft shooting guards with no D, passing, rebounding, or otherwise team skill are a dime-a-dozen. Just go to a city with good pick up games and watch… sorry signing BG is just not needed.
Yeah I played ball, and yeah I won!
And make no mistake, defense is very important. Make NO mistake about that. But again, Gordon’s defense is average and I find it stunning that you and others continue to single out Gordon for not being able to stop Ray Allen. Join the club Ben. Many have been burned by Ray Allen. Rose and Salmons flat out dogged it on a few of those game tying 3’s that Allen hit yet I don’t see you hitting them over the head.
But scoring is important as well. When the Bulls get going and shoot lights out then they can beat anyone. But the Bulls hit too many scoring droughts. Now to be sure, defense is what pulls you out of those droughts but you have to continue to score or you’re in trouble (this is the problem the Houston Rockets may find themselves running into at some point). You don’t get rid of weapons like Gordon. You all act like this guy is useless. You don’t give him a max deal because he’s no obviously no max player. But he’s far more valuable than most of you give him credit for being. You ’re talking about him thriving because of the dumb coach and no offensive philosophy. He thrived the same way under Skiles or did you forget that?
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 5, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Houston still has 1 BONAFIDE PERENNIAL all-star and another all-star caliber player.
So what is your point in comparing them to Houston? NOBODY on the Bulls roster can do what Yao Ming can do and NOBODY on the Bulls roster can do what Ron Artest can do so I don’t know what just possessed you to compare the Bulls to Houston by talking about winning with players who aren’t stars. As for McGrady, he has never been a winner so it’s no surprise that their winning without him. McGrady has never been as mentally or physically tough a player as Gordon is. Bigger and better scorer than Gordon? Sure. But nowhere near the competitor. And Houston has always been better when they play through their big man, even with McGrady on the floor. But what big man do we have to play through? Brad Miller?
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 5, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I just read a "Truth or Rumor" on SI.com that said Bulls....
…lining up for Wade.
Now if somehow someway a Gordon deal helps us obtain Dwyane then HELL YEAH!! Now there’s OBVIOUSLY a guy you don’t think twice about giving Gordon up for. But to give Gordon up so that Salmons or Hinrich can start at the 2 is craziness because neither of those guys gives you a better chance to win than Gordon despite them being bigger.
As I continue to say, Gordon is OBVIOUSLY not in the same class as D-Wade or other guys of his ilk (Kobe and Brandon Roy are the other 2 SG’s who come to mind) but Gordon is one below them on the ladder. I mean seriously, what shooting guards are THAT much better than him besides those two? Joe Johnson, Vince Carter, Ray Allen, a healthy Manu Ginobili (but Gordon would be pretty damn good if he played with Duncan and Parker too), Richard Hamilton….. I’d argue that none of these guys are SIGNIFICANTLY better than Gordon if at all. Most have had the good fortune of being in better situations and having MUCH more help than Gordon does.
But D-Wade would be a DEFINITE upgrade and if we could get him then everybody say bye to Ben Gordon.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 5, 2009 12:41 PM CDT reply actions
If letting Gordon leave this summer for nothing gives the team the best chance
at signing Wade next summer, do you let the Gordon walk? That’s the decision that has to be made. I’m willing to let Gordon walk for that rare chance at a consensus top 5 player in Wade even if it is only a 20-25% chance. Otherwise this franchise has to hope to luck into a championship Detroit style.
I hear you Scotter.
But does in that case does Gordon really have to be the one that goes this year? Plus, how legitimate of a chance to we really have to sign him? Wade is one of those guys you HAVE to take a shot at if you can get him so I’m all for doing what needs to be done to get him. But I wonder if BG is the guy who has to go this year.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 5, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions
How does Gordon help sign Wade?
Having him on the roster with Wade and Rose makes no sense. And if Gordon signs then he is a base year player and hard to trade. I don’t see any way where sacrificing Gordon, and making a run at Wade aren’t connected.
I think it’s a 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 chance that Wade would leave Miami, but I don’t think the long term consequences of swinging and missing on Wade are that dramatic. They can still use their cap space as best as they can, and Rose will still be 3-5 years away from his prime.
Miami will need a SG if Wade goes.
Sure, there’d probably be a question of whether they think Cook is better at his cheap price than Gordon. I think, in 2010 when Gordon wouldn’t be BYC, getting Gordon/Deng + Thomas/Noah + picks is a good haul w/ a lot of choice.
And if the Heat don’t want Gordon, then the worst case scenario is to renounce Thomas, sign Wade outright and worry about getting rid of one of Gordon or Hinrich later, which I wouldn’t think is impossible.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I don't see how all of that is possible.
A sign and trade may come into play in order to give Wade his max salary, but the Bulls have to have enough salary cap space for it be realistic for Wade to sign with the Bulls out right in order to force Miami to consider a sign and trade.
Although I’m trying to estimate the numbers in my head right now. If after signing Gordon this summer and renouncing Thomas next season would still open up enough cap space to sign Wade out right then I can get on board with resigning Gordon. If it does, keeping Thomas through the full season is better than trading him.
Gordon's contract as part of a sign and trade deal with Wade....
…helps sign Wade.
I never suggested anywhere having Wade and Gordon on the same team. In fact, I repeatedly say that Wade is an obvious upgrade and a guy you jettison Gordon for in a heartbeat.
In 2010, when Wade opts out, Gordon can be moved as part of a deal for Wade is Wade insists on leaving Miami.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 5, 2009 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions
The Bulls still need to have enough cap space
to be a threat to sign Wade out right. Once Gordon is signed, I don’t think he’s that easy to trade unless it is in the summer of 2010 in a sign and trade. I have serious doubts that there are a lot of teams that think they’re a Ben Gordon away from competing. It pretty much has to be to team losing it’s star and desperate for scoring. And to pull off a sign and trade, the Bulls have to be a threat to sign the player out right.
I am talking about a sign and trade in the summer of 2010 Scotter.
If Orlando had Ben Gordon that’d be one less guy who can help out on Dwight Howard and Orlando would be a tougher team down the stretch (mentally). Gordon brings more than just points. He brings a toughness that some teams are sorely lacking.
If San Antonio had Ben Gordon right now (instead of Roger Mason and his 6 ppg in the playoffs) they’d still be playing.
If Philly had Gordon (instead of Willie Green) then they’d have beat Orlando.
There are several teams that could really use what he brings to the table.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 5, 2009 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Philly would require the Bulls taking back salary
Orlando might be a possibility if they can’t resign Turkolgu. San Antonio only has four players under contract for 2010-11 so they certainly have the cap space. Maybe they would want Gordon, but I don’t really see them playing Gordon and Parker together. Those would have to be outright trades, not sign and trade.
A sign and trade would be sending Gordon to Miami for Wade.
You are way ahead of me Scotter.
In my earlier post I was indeed talking about a sign and trade for Wade by using Gordon’s contract. But in this last post I wasn’t proposing moving Gordon to either of those teams. I was responding to you saying that there aren’t contenders that think they are a Ben Gordon away from competing. I was implying that Gordon would be a major upgrade to what those teams have at the SG spot and his 24ppg this postseason (in a series that was FAR more competitive than any of the series’ the 3 teams I mentioned played in) would have helped either of those teams immensely…and quite possibly vaulted Orlando or San Antonio into the championship picture. I don’t give a damn what your situation is. When you’re getting next to nothing out of your SG spot and it’s replaced with a guy who averaged 24ppg in a 7 game series then that guy is valuable and can help pretty much anybody but the Lakers and Blazers.
If Gordon was on that San Antonio team he’d be option #3 (and at times in the game he’d be option #1 and 2) and if he was on that Orlando team he’d be option #1 or #2 in late game situations as well (seeing as though Lewis has a propensity to disappear in bigger moments and they don’t throw the ball to Howard down the stretch anyway).
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 5, 2009 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Well I'm not so sure about that...
I mean you could make the argument that the Cavs were a Mo Williams away from a championship. Mayba a team like Houston or Orlando or the Hornets could be a Gordon away from seriously getting a ring.
The Hornets ...
if the Hornets have the money this year … Gordon is an AMAZING fit on them.
That would be a fun team to watch.
"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
yeah, it's Sam
http://www.blogabull.com/2009/5/4/864848/sam-should-bulls-target-wade-in
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 5, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
The idea that the Bulls could swap Tyrus Thomas for David West seems like not a half bad idea
That makes more sense than Wade in some ways.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
David West is getting old and he's not a post player, rather a jump shooter
I say wait it out for Bosh or Amare
by LoveForTheGame on May 6, 2009 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions
One idea I could see the Bulls trying to make work
James Posey and David West for John Salmons and Tyrus Thomas and 2 future 1st’s. Saves the Hornets money next year, and they can decide on what they want for a future beyond that.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I know this won't work under the salary cap
But if you add the Bulls pick from coming from OKC (or technically Denver since it’s there’s), and you add 2 future Bulls 1st round picks, than OKC could do it for that. Or something like that. Just noodling here. No real reason otherwise.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Generally I can get past my dislike of players if they end up on my team,
But I’m not sure I could ever stomach Posey in a Bulls uniform. It’s even been a couple of years since the issues with him, and I still just strongly dislike the idea of him anywhere near the Bulls.
Although I guess they could move him elsewhere as part of the whole deal? Maybe not with that contract…
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
Most Bulls fans ended up liking Dennis Rodman.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on May 6, 2009 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions
How many times...
does BG need to get lit up on defense to prove he is not a good fit for us. He doesn’t pass the ball…ever, he plays horrible with Rose, and he can’t play the 1. He is a 6th man in the NBA that cannot create his own shot.
P-P-P-P-P-eace BG!
Vinny...you look confused
yeah, we heard you earlier.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 5, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Everything you just said is wrong.
"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
Are you kidding me???
And you have the nerve to call yourself knowledge.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 5, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Please explain to me what you like about BG's game then
Vinny...you look confused
make me a believer
Vinny...you look confused
Nobody can make you believe anything at this point.
But the simple fact that he’s either the best or second best player we have at this point. There are plenty other guys on this team I’d rather see go than Gordon. Concerning his game though, the WIDE OPEN layup Brad Miller got at the end of game 5 tells you all you need to know about Gordon. If Gordon was the starting shooting guard for Orlando, Cleveland, San Antonio, Phoenix or any number of other teams with legitimate lead players then people would see his real value. Ben Gordon is the last guy we should be trying to move (well, second to last guy). He is not the problem. The Bulls have got to obtain more top tier talent. This balanced attack thing is nice in theory but stars win in this league (with the rare exception of a team like the 2004 Pistons) and with the exception of Rose, Gordon is the closest thing we have to a star.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 5, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions
SEE MY POINT IS THIS
BG stands out as being so good because he is on the Bulls. If he was on Cleveland he wouldn’t start, San Antonio-wouldn’t start, Orlando-wouldn’t start.
BG looks like this so called “great player” everyone hypes him up to be because he is on the Bulls. A very mediocre team and he is permitted to jack shots up.
And lets not just focus on the playoffs, lets look at what he has done in his career with us. He is good, don’t get me wrong. Salmons can run the 2 and Deng can run the 3.
BG will stunt Derrick’s growth as a scorer. He cannot pass the ball and further more refuses to do so.
“…I feel like I’m taking crazy pills!”
Vinny...you look confused
Why wouldn't he start for those teams?
The starting 2 guards for those 3 teams: Delonte West, Mikael Pietrus/Courtney Lee, and Roger Mason Jr.
This isn’t Jamal Crawford we’re talking about. Gordon doesn’t take 25 shots a game to get his 20 points.
Gordon isn’t a star, but he’s pretty elite at scoring. I have absolutely no faith in a Bulls offense where we’re relying on John Salmons and Luol Deng to pick up the offensive slack. Call me stupid, but I take 5 years of consistent effort scoring from one guy over 1 season of random good play from a 29 year old, and a guy who could be very good but can’t stay healthy.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on May 6, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
If he was on those three teams and didn't start
it would only be because he would take on a Manu Ginobli-ish role. He’s better than all of their SG’s.
"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
better at what?
shooting? Yes
passing? no
defense? no
rebounding? no
YOU CANNOT TEACH HEIGHT
All of those guys have to defer to a better player too. Lord knows how many points any of them would average if they were on the Bulls.
he just isn’t worth that amount of money***
Vinny...you look confused
What amount of money?
We’re going to lock up a premier scorer for around $10 million per, and he’s worth that much.
12 and 13 is pushing it a little, but that’s just because our schemes are retarded.
Tell me, who’s better at the Cavs’ PG slot – Daniel Gibson or Mo Williams?
"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
Strange then that Gordon averaged more assists and rebounds....
…than either of the guys you compare him to. Well, Delonte West did average 0.1 more rebounds than Gordon but that’s it. If Gordon played with LeBron, Duncan or Dwight Howard he’d easily average over 5 apg.
Now Delonte West is a better defender than Gordon, but if Gordon played for San Antonio or Cleveland where defense is a focus, then he’d be a better defender too. Also, I attribute part of West being a good defender to the fact that Cleveland plays fantastic team defense as well.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 6, 2009 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions
If you want to blame defense on coaching
I may agree with you, since you have to develop your players. However! Skiles had a strong focus on defense…prob why Ben came off the bench for most of his tenure.
good points tho…
Vinny...you look confused
Ben came of the bench for Duhon.
Duhon. Still makes me feel sick.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
"Let's look at what he has done in his career with us."
All Gordon has done is lead us in scoring 5 seasons in a row and pretty much led the playoff push in 3 of those 5 seasons.
Do you seriously think that Gordon can’t do what Roger Mason Jr. does? Can’t do what J.J. Redick/Courtney Lee does? Can’t do what Delonte West does? Are you kidding me? Gordon would be even better if he played on any of those teams. May or may not score as many points but he’d be FAR more efficient due in part to the talent level of the star players he’d be on the court with.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 6, 2009 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I repeat...
Great at offense. Cannot play d and is too short. He is a glorified 6th man.
Vinny...you look confused
Well who is a better two way (offense/defense) SG on the Bulls than Gordon?
As a matter of fact, who in the entire league IS AVAILABLE and is a better two way SG than Gordon?
Keith Bogans will be available this summer……..
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 7, 2009 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions
You can plug the John Salmons and Brad Miller type players...
…into a championship lineup and put them over the top with the depth they provide. But when we are looking at a guy who had a breakout season at 29 with a career scoring average of 8.8ppg then we got problems. That’s not to take anything away from the terrific year that Salmons had. But what did he do other than be able to defend Paul Pierce (about as effectively as Gordon defended Allen when he was on him) that Gordon didn’t do this season, yet people are pining for running Gordon out of town because we have “Salmons”.
The bias against Gordon in unreal. I think I understand part of it though. He’s NOT Jordan, but he is by far the best to play the 2 that we’ve had since MJ (for those of you tempted to say Jamal Crawford was, ask yourself if you really think Gordon couldn’t score 50 pts on several occasions if he played for Golden State or the Knicks). Many Bulls fans look around the league and see Kobe, Wade, Brandon Roy and subconsciously remember the time when the Bulls had that top notch SG…then Bulls fans get upset with Gordon for not being one of those 3 guys and thus begins the hate.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 5, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions
And to add a sidebar to your comment
I saw Brandon Roy in the playoffs and I have to tell you, there may be a serious argument in terms him being that much better than BG. On the same day that BG hit that big shot against Boston, I watched Roy in the same scenario and he basically couldn’t get it done. Yes he’s a better all-around player but I don’t see him clearing of his shelf for any DPOY awards anytime soon.
wow...
are people comparing Roy to BG?
…personally, and I am not trying to be rude, this is the the most rediculous comparison I have ever heard.
Vinny...you look confused
Let me fix that
BG is Magic Johnson!
"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
haha
Roy had a better first postseason than Jordan, Bird, Magic, Wade, LeBron… not saying he’s better than them (he’s clearly not on their level)…. but he did have an incredible postseason against the best set of perimeter defenders in the league.
draft dejuan blair
Brandon Roy had a better first postseason than Magic Johnson?
YHGTBSM!
Magic Johnson was Finals MVP his rookie season. 18.3 points, 10.5 rebounds and 9.4 assists per game in the postseason as a rookie.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on May 6, 2009 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I recall a guy at ESPN making the case that Brook Lopez should be the ROY.
The lesson: Just because somebody made a case doesn’t mean that it’s within the faintest realm of possibility.*
- I’m sure there are better examples of this, but I’m lazy.
"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
Magic played with a center that year who averaged
31.9/12.1/3.1 in the playoffs that year, leaving less offensive and rebounding opportunities for Magic than Roy had.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on May 7, 2009 4:16 AM CDT up reply actions
In what world did Roy have a better first post-season than Jordan or Magic?
Jordan averaged 29 pts, 9 assts and 6 rbds while losing in 3-1 to Milwaukee (when it was a best of 5 series).
Magic won the NBA championship as a rookie, going for a legendary 42 pts 15 rbs and 7 assts in game 6 of the Finals.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 6, 2009 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions
man
i can only hope that blazer fans will give kirk the same kind of hype they give the rest of thier players….for me it would be fun to read!
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
The only issue with BG, for me, is that we have Salmons.
Don’t get me wrong – I like both. But both can, at times, hang onto the ball for a long while, and while it’s fine (even necessary) to have one player who can go one-on-one, having two guys who like to hang onto the rock tends to make the offense lopsided. Especially when we want the ball in Rose’s hands a fairly high percentage of the time.
To reiterate: love BG, like Salmons, but not necessarily on the court at the same time. Especially when pretty much everyone here wants A) Rose to develop into a more dominating player and B) the Bulls to aquire an interior scorer.
Frankly, if I had my way, I’d sign BG and pair him up with Luol Deng, a player that doesn’t need to dominate the ball to be effective. If Lu can simply go back to doing what he did well – cutting, hitting open jumpers, rebounding – he’d actually be a great complement to Ben’s one-on-one ability. And Derrick.
John Salmons has value; and he raised it over the season and against Boston. He’s also got a reasonable contract. If anyone goes…he’s the one I’d like to see traded.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
That's why, as Scotter said right as the trade was made...
All three of Rose, Gordon and Salmons shouldn’t be on the court at the same time. Two problems, though: VDN didn’t recognize that and then Deng got hurt.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I don't see why
Gordon can’t play with Deng and have Salmons back them both up. At this point we seem to need insurance at the SF position rather than SG with Deng the way he has been. And Salmons can play both. If we sign and trade Gordon later on in the year we’d still have Salmons to fill in that role. If we keep Gordon long term we still need to have someone as insurance for Deng.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
They do both hang onto the ball for FAR too long.
By their very nature, scorers will hang on to the ball a bit more than anyone else will. But the question you have to ask is why they do. Is this by VDN design?
But how quickly people forget. Gordon fit perfectly in the drive and kick offense that Skiles ran and he was very productive then, moving the ball and taking what was given to him (the most productive guy on the team back then as well). Sure he forced a few shots, but that’s what scorers will do. Scorers take chances that other players won’t take…and rightfully so.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 5, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Bulls will pay luxury tax... or not
some team insiders believe there is a possibility that could happen.
Others do not. Do not get too excited.
Signing BG will be a HUGE mistake..I am convinced...
…I am not a basketball expert like some of you, but I have watched the Bulls very closely over the last few years, and I am convinced that BG will NEVER improve in the areas of passing and playing within the context of an offense (not that we have one now, but if we tried, he willl hinder it). Everyone is overly swayed by his 4th quarter shots – you have to ask whether his poor shooting put us into that hole in the first place (many times it has). His defense has improved, but it is not good enough to take us to the next level. He is the classic over-valued scorer. We have some willing and natural passers on this team like Rose, Noah and Mller, and it kills me that we have a flow killer like BG on the team. I think he is a decent guy, great character and ice cool under pressure, but that doesn’t exonerate him of his many faults as a player. I am convinced that keeping him here long term will leave us mired in mediocrity. I know this is an unpopular sentiment on this forum, but then again I am as entitled to my views as anyone else (I am disappointed to see how much dissent is often discouraged on this forum, though I am still a huge fan of this blog, and have been a member for several years).
by bullsfaninbigapple on May 5, 2009 9:15 PM CDT reply actions
What?
“you have to ask whether his poor shooting put us into that hole in the first place”
He shot 45.5% from the field and 41% from beyond the arc. He’s also 86% from the FT line. Where exactly are you seeing flaws in his shooting?
You can talk about his defense all you want, but start knocking his shooting and you have crossed a line of ridiculousness sir. Incidentally, Ben Gordon shoots 100% from beyond that line too.
Nice try.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on May 5, 2009 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
wouldn't you say defense is rather important??
wtf!
Vinny...you look confused
I did say defense is important...
Did you read anything I wrote?
WTF?
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on May 6, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Gordons problem in on offense..
Dont always show up in the stats. Hell Stats in general are over used. Stats can be a helpful guide but in no way the whole picture. Lets take the big 3 he hit in the double overtime game, it was great but there were also 2 or 3 posessions in crucial parts of the 4th that he forced some of the worst shots I have ever seen. He trys to hard to be “the Guy” and there isnt really a stat for that.
I like Ben Gordon, but I dont like when people cant admit his faults, thats exactly how Gordon homers are(not saying your one of them) and unfortunatley those people make me feel worse about him.
by TruEChiFaN... on May 6, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions
THAT'S WHAT I AM SAYING!
well said!
Vinny...you look confused
Anyone else think
all of these loud noobies will join together and form the Marshmallow Man from Ghostbusters? It is starting to look that way.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on May 6, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Gordon haters are drones.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on May 6, 2009 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions
He IS the guy....for us.
If you know anything about the game you know that big scorers will force something here and there (be it on the playground or at the highest levels of basketball). He’s our best scorer and that’s not debatable. That is unbelievable knit-picking you are doing talking about how there were 2 or 3 forced possessions…..WITHOUT mentioning some of the forced shots and overdribbling that his so-called replacement (Salmons) did at the very same time. But in Salmons defense, he’s our second best scorer and as I said before scorers take chances.
You KNOW somebody is the guy when people watch him so closely that they knit-pick at EVERY SINGLE possession of while looking right over the bonehead decisions made by others on the court. And I don’t know why you think people can’t admit his faults. He has plenty and there are MORE THAN ENOUGH people who stay calling Gordon out (number one fault for me is that he’s gotta get them handles cleaned up since he is so often depended on to bail the Bulls out with a fantastic one on one play ending in a spectacular shot….and i don’t see how that’s his fault when it comes to that seeing as though its what the offense we run…or dont run…dictates). But even with that he’s the second most valuable player on this Bulls team and it’s NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 6, 2009 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions
well personally I just watch the games but..
BG went toe to toe with the best shooter in the land. Without BG this’’greatest first round series of all time’’ never happens. Really if they can resign him and he will accept the 6th man roll thats a pretty awesome weapon to bring off the bench.
It comes down to his clutch factor he keeps you in games and gets you back into games in a hurry, not many can do that.
I hope they resign him.
I'm glad somebody recognizes that Gordon performed on par with the great Ray Allen..
…in a heated contest.
But I have a question. What if Gordon is just better than everyone we’ve had try to play the 2? Does anyone ever think that’s why he wants to get paid? Does anyone think that maybe he has earned the right to start because he’s been just been better than anyone else we put there?
Why is everyone so fixated on Gordon coming off the bench? The Cleveland Cavaliers are about to win a championship with a SG who is a Gordonesque 6’2" and some change yet I’ve seen nor read a single complaint about him. Only difference is that he’s on a better, more veteran laden team than Gordon. Also Cleveland has “The End All Be All” in LeBron James and that changes things a bit because he demands a bit of defensive attention I’d say. But why don’t people think the Bulls can win with Gordon as the starting shooting guard when he’s the #1 offensive weapon the Bulls have? If the Bulls can acquire a frontcourt scoring threat then that will only accent Gordon’s offensive talents, along with the development of Derrick Rose.
In truth, Gordon has to do FAR too much offensively for this Chicago team. We desperately need good players on the frontline who can score consistently. This will relieve SO MUCH of the offensive burden on not only Gordon but Rose as well. It’s been SO LONG since the Bulls have been able to dump the ball inside to a true scoring threat (Drew Gooden became more of a jump shooter than post option). If we could get a guy who can do some damage on the block while keeping Ben Gordon then that changes everything!
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 6, 2009 1:43 AM CDT up reply actions
well I think because
Why is everyone so fixated on Gordon coming off the bench?
Rose, Salmons and Deng should round out the starters. Rose is Rose, Salmons doesn’t play well off the bench and Deng is making money until the cows come home. Or something like that.
Hmmm yes, Luol Deng's contract is in the Book of Revelation.
So basically the reason to put Gordon on the bench
Has everything to do with factors that have nothing to with what’s happening well on the court. We should start Deng because of what he’s getting paid and we should start Salmons because he doesn’t play well coming off the bench?
Here are the factors that matter to me:
1.) Bg had his most consistent season as a pro starting
2.) Rose assist numbers went up after BG was inserted in the starting lineup
3.)Contrary to popular belief, BG and Rose played well together. Considering the fact that Rose did win rookie of the year wiith BG as his backcourt mate.
As far as Salmons is concerned, I understand people assuming that because Salmons is tall and plays better defense that we can just swing him over to the 2 but I have to say that after watching him in the playoffs, I dont get the fascination with Salmons. There were moments in games 1 and 2 and3 where this guy shot us out of games and still didnt put up a lot of points. People slam Ben for doing that in game 6 and he still had 33pts with a bad leg. I just think people better be careful what they ask for from Salmons. Because there were times in the series where he could’ve passed for Larry Hughes.
Salmons was playing with an hurt Groin.
Got to agree that Salmons does jack up a lot of shots but at least during the season when he was healthy he was taking it to the cup.
Both Gordon and Salmons love to shot even when there teammates are open but Salmons D is better IMO.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Salmons D is better.
Gordon’s O is better.
Both want to shoot. I’ll take my chances with Gordon.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 6, 2009 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Well you'd think the Bulls would start the season
with Deng and Salmons starting and then once they start losing now you have an excuse to either trade Deng or bring him off the bench. They’ll have to start him at least at the seasons start.
Hmmm yes, Luol Deng's contract is in the Book of Revelation.
My sentiments exactly Dils.
I like Salmons too, but he simply does not bring what Gordon brings to the table. Defenses have zeroed in on Gordon and still haven’t been able to stop him from being an offensive weapon. We know this because Gordon has done it for the 5 years he’s been in the league. Salmons on the other hand has a career average of 8.8 ppg but broke out this season but he’ll be almost 30 when next season tips off. What’s gonna happen when Salmons gets double teamed? When opposing teams gameplan for him because he’s offensive option #1 (that’s what happens if Ben Gordon doesn’t come back)? Salmons is nice but he’s not nice enough to make Ben Gordon expendable.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 6, 2009 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions
BG gone = Bulls in lottery.
Who else can hit the 3 besides Salmons? Kirk is pretty inconsistent and he should be traded this summer. Deng really doesn’t shoot it. Wow Brad Miller? Their defense is pretty poor as is. You take BG off the Bulls then you can’t out score teams.
Good luck in the lottery!
Hmmm yes, Luol Deng's contract is in the Book of Revelation.
why do we have to shoot threes?
Vinny...you look confused
take away three point shooters from Derrick Rose makes him
even more defendable.
Hmmm yes, Luol Deng's contract is in the Book of Revelation.
I would say we rely on the three too much.
we rely on jump shots in general too much.
Vinny...you look confused
The three is the most efficient shot in basketball
it’s the midrange jumper that you want to avoid.
"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
the 3 is the most efficient shot in basketball
WWWWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
Vinny...you look confused
Well, it is.
…
yeah. It is.
"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
They rely on stupid contested jumpers, agreed
Cutting back on 3-pointers is not a smart idea.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on May 6, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Again, this is why Ben Gordon is NOT the problem.
The problem is that we need to be able to dump the ball into the post and create open space for our perimeter players. We need a consistent scoring threat on the front line who is a winner.
As I said before, there are FAR more guys on this Bulls team who should go before Gordon should go.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 6, 2009 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions
3 > 2
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 6, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
and apparently necessary.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 6, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
not really
since a 3 is greater than 2. Unless of course, that two is an “and 1.” Make the free throw and pick up a foul on one of their guys for being aggressive. Sh-t, maybe a 2 is better than a 3.
too much?
Vinny...you look confused
So every time somebody drives the lane they get points or get fouled?
See Derrick Rose/BG getting mauled on “blocks” about 2 weeks ago.
"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
Derrick gets those calls next year
BG is soft
Vinny...you look confused
yeah man, you're certainly too much.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 7, 2009 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Just trade Kirk to Portland
it’s good for Chicago, Portland, and Kirk.
It’s the right thing to do.
draft dejuan blair
I'd take Outlaw and Bayless.
Bayless could back up Rose and Outlaw gives you some length and bench depth.
Hmmm yes, Luol Deng's contract is in the Book of Revelation.
Bayless is worthless to Chicago
He needs time and lots of minutes to become a good player, that is never happening backing up Derrick Rose.
If a Portland/Chicago trade is happening the Bulls should be demanding Steve Blake, who is an ideal backup PG.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on May 6, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah, i don't understand insisting on bayless
he should be projected to be better than a 10 min/game behind derrick rose guy. sergio would be alright also.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
Bayless could be a piece to land Bosh?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 6, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I gues like hearing Stacy say ''thats your point guard''...in this case he'd
be saying thats your back up point guard..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PANPIaDZ7ZQ&feature=related
Hmmm yes, Luol Deng's contract is in the Book of Revelation.
Blah, don't start down that road
John Paxson has shown no ability to make roster moves other than well-executed salary dumps.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on May 6, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
one man's dump...
he is good at that. Though the Kings deal was actually them dumping on us.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 6, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd trade Outlaw and Bayless in an instant
but I think Blake and Outlaw would be a much better fit in Chicago.
draft dejuan blair
It just seems to me
that Chicago could keep Gordon and give Rose the keys to the franchise… Portland could add Outlaw and Blake, boosting Chicago’s front line and giving them a solid backup point guard.
Doesn’t it make sense for both sides?
draft dejuan blair
Does anyone here think that Jason Terry is better than Ben Gordon?
My gut tells me that many of you think they are very similar. I feel like they are similar, but I believe Gordon to be a superior offensive player and let’s face it….unless your name is Ben Wallace, in most cases people get paid based on what they do offensively. A closer look at their at their numbers and I think you’ll find this to be the case. Also, for a change, Gordon is the bigger and stronger of the two.
Jason Terry is 31 yrs old and Ben Gordon turned 26 yrs old last month. Jason Terry signed a 6yr/57 Mil contract in 2006. If terry gets this much then how can you blame Gordon for passing on the deals offered to him when indeed Gordon is more valuable to the Bulls than Terry is to Dallas? Gordon has earned a deal in the 10-11 million per year range. I just can’t understand the logic of everyone here who opposes it.
At this point it wouldn’t surprise me if Gordon signed another short term deal with the Bulls or someone else until the summer of 2010 passes and teams open the wallets again. He’ll only be 27 and at this point you can pretty much pencil in 20 ppg and 40% 3pt shooting for Gordon so he’ll still merit AT LEAST what Terry makes.
after 237 comments not one about Jason Terry other than you...
Does anyone here think that Jason Terry is better than Ben Gordon?
lol No!
Hmmm yes, Luol Deng's contract is in the Book of Revelation.
I asked it for comparison sake.
Terry seems to me to be the guy everyone wants Ben Gordon to be when in actuality Gordon is better than Terry. And lest we forget, Jason Terry started 80 games for Dallas and was the second leading scorer when they won 60 games and went to the NBA Finals and led 2-0 before they performed the worst choke job in NBA Finals history. Then the following season Terry again started 80 games and was the 3rd leading scorer on a 67 win team (that performed the WORST choke job in NBA History losing to Golden State). I’m gonna go on a limb and say that they didn’t lose because Jason Terry is only 6’2. In fact, he averaged 22 ppg against Miami in the Finals (Josh Howard only averaged 14 and Dirk averaged 23).
Does anyone here honestly think Gordon can’t do what Terry did for Dallas…with those teammates? Don’t count me among those who don’t because I’m CERTAIN that Gordon would have done the same if not more than Terry. And again, Terry is due to make right around $10M for the next 3 or 4 yrs. and I’d have no problem re-signing Gordon to a contract paying that much. So the real challenge is not getting rid of Ben Gordon, rather will we be able to obtain a good to great front court player?
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 7, 2009 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Gordon would be that much better playing with a guy like Dirk
and Kidd and Howard, even though Gordon is playing with Rose.
by LoveForTheGame on May 11, 2009 2:37 AM CDT up reply actions
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