What are we to make of the Derrick Rose situation?
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 31, 2009 6:42 PM CDT
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PrintI'm reading everywhere about how this may tarnish Rose. What will become of Derrick Rose? How will this affect the mindset of Derrick Rose? Etc, etc....
Now I've been familiar with the high stakes world of high school basketball and the AAU circuit for too long to be worried about Derrick Rose in this situation. To put it bluntly, this is what happens when 18 yr old American superstar basketball players are told they have to spend a year in college instead of being able to go pro right out of high school. Hockey players can go pro right out of high school and it's no big deal. Baseball players can get drafted and go pro straight out of high school. Golfers and tennis players can go pro at a very young age and nobody bats an eye. But a rule is put in place to prevent basketball players from doing so...thereby allowing colleges to exploit the athlete to the tune of millions of dollars.
There are those who will say the basketball players are getting a free education. I disagree wholeheartedly. People go to school to learn a skill that will pay them after graduation (in most cases). If you want to be a doctor you go to medical school for years. If you want to be a lawyer you go to law school for years. But if you want to be a professional basketball player, college for you was in the alleys with a piece of wood as a backboard and a bike wheel with the spokes knocked out as a rim. College for you was being on the AAU circuit. College for you was doing everything you needed to do to put yourself in position to be a high draft pick out of high school. And if you fail, it seems its the GM's fault (I mean look how badly people beat MJ up over drafting Kwame Brown when the truth is whoever had the #1 pick was going to take him). And this is where I get to Derrick Rose and his ilk.
It has been obvious since Derrick Rose was a junior at Simeon that he was going to whatever college afforded him the best chance at auditioning for the NBA since he had to go to college anyway. Had this stupid rule not been in place, then no grade need have been changed, no SAT need have been passed and no "scandal" would be taking place.
The hypocricy is unbelievable. People want these boys to go to collge and let the schools and coaches make untold sums of money. Meanwhile, forcing a guy like Derrick Rose, or Greg Oden, or John Wall to go to college keeps little Johnny who works hard and deserves a chance to go to college from ever getting that chance.
I was once of the mind that these guys should all go to college for a little while. I still think that it can't hurt for them to attend college for a year or two. But when you force them to, these are the types of things that will happen. Derrick Rose never had any intention of obtaining a degree from Memphis and using that degree to secure a job. He did however obtain an honorary degree in "awesomeness at PG" because he picked up a bachelors in that by the time he won his second state title at Simeon and that honorary degree is going to pay him $100M + in his lifetime. Far more than any B.S or B.A in anything would do for him. You could work 40 years and make $125,000/yr and you still will not have made as much as Derrick Rose made in his ONE professional season....and Derrick Rose didn't need college for that. In all honesty, college used him...and several other players like him to line their coffers.
So who cares about the high school grade thing? I sure as hell don't because I know that this has been going on with high profile basketball players and it will continue as long as they are forced to go to college before becoming pros.
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I just don't care at all either
It doesn’t change anything
rather, *Lemonade...
when life gives you lemons…
I think it will motivate Derrick to be even better next year. He’s probably hiding in the gym, using this as even more motivation to push himself. I personally don’t care about it and it doesn’t change my perception of him. I truly believe that a majority of top recruits in every sport get grades changed and tests taken for them. I mean, we’ve all heard Rose speak, yet he listed his favorite and best subject as English. That made me laugh:)
Anyways, I do think bball players should be allowed to go straight to the NBA but I disagree with the reason you state that they can’t. I actually think it’s the NBA more than the NCAA that wants to prevent this so that the draft doesn’t become a guessing game that ends in people taking Kwame freaking Brown with the #1 pick. The lottery was turning into a guessing game of “who will be the next Garnett?” and teams were getting burned drafting complete duds.
What to make of a superb talent for Basketball but no college ability
He is forced to go to college or his basketball career will suffer by sitting one year. For someone like Rose, he is not the brightest but his future was basketball. I guess the best thing for him was go to to Europe but that can damage your standing in the draft. He did what he needed to. Right now, he just needs to fess up and admit someone did that for him and say – I needed college to play basketball – period and just focus on b-ball. The folks running the schools are the ones that should be in trouble.
Very likely this was all arranged by someone else - "Don't worry Derrick, we will take care of getting you into and
through college for a year." I doubt Rose knew about the details, and was likely not encouraged to ask.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on May 31, 2009 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Like Dan Wetzel said,
If Rose was smart enough to pull this scheme off himself, he wouldn’t have needed to cheat on the SAT’s in the first place.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
Could be.
Or maybe one of Derrick’s brothers signed up for the test under his name?
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jun 3, 2009 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Derrick Rose should have had the opportunity to play in a minor league for a year at a salary that would have
allowed him to buy his mother a new house a year earlier. Or he could have done the same thing by playing in Europe for a year or two (why waste his senior year in high school when a European team would have paid him a few hundred thousand Euros to play?).
Hockey players can go pro right out of high school and it’s no big deal. Baseball players can get drafted and go pro straight out of high school. Golfers and tennis players can go pro at a very young age and nobody bats an eye. But a rule is put in place to prevent basketball players from doing so…thereby allowing colleges to exploit the athlete to the tune of millions of dollars.
The worst exploitation is of college football players, who are generally not physically ready for the NFL until 20-22 years of age.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
Rose had to have his his older brother move in with him at Memphis
You really think he could have handled moving halfway across the world? How many 18-year-olds have a family member move in with them when they go off to college? Besides, some of those European teams don’t always feel the need to pay their players on time . . . or sometimes at all. In a perfect world, the D-League would be a legitimate minor league.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
Rose's agent could have taken care off all the details, including a stipend for Derrick's brother.
Most of the teams not paying players are in places like Russia, not Western Europe. Laws are enforced in the latter, not so much in the former.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on May 31, 2009 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions
A top flight basketball player going away to college is nothing like the average joe going away...
…to college. There are several issues that the average student would never have to deal with. Managing interview requests, money management (because apparently there was more than allowance money coming in), coordinating any number of future business arrangements, etc… Then there was also the inevitable and possibly the most important part. The “making sure Derrick doesn’t do anything stupid that will jeapordize him being selected early in the 2008 draft” part. The average college kid doesn’t have to worry about either of those things.
But I get your point though. It would have been a very difficult transition. It seems as if Brandon Jennings has handled it well though so maybe Rose would have too.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 31, 2009 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with you completely about the football players.
I was going to throw that in there too because it’s definitely the case. And how many grades do you think have been changed for guys who are currently or will soon be NFL All-Pro players? Maybe not so much high school grades in the case of football since many players sit out a year anyway (much the same way Dwyane Wade didn’t play any games his first season at Marquette due to grades but he did practice), but in college I’m sure PLENTY football players have had grades adjusted to make sure they’re eligible for the season.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 31, 2009 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Link
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on May 31, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions
David Stern...
loves to shoot himself in the foot.
i dont really care as long as it doesnt affect him playing ball
and it doesnt..
if he did wat they say he did, then fine.
i think its better he comes out and takes fault for it though.
and remember if it werent for the 1 year in college thing, we wouldnt have gotten him with the 1st pick.
I remember Michael dribbling at the top of the key. Everybody knew to just get the hell out of his way. - Steve Kerr
technically
>and remember if it werent for the 1 year in college thing, we wouldnt have gotten him with the 1st pick.
His basketball skills got him what he got in college on the court. His emergence in college was from his basketball skills and that is what got him the number one pick. He didn’t have to win a spelling contest or something.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
no im saying that
if he didnt go to college that one year he most likely would have made the jump out of high school the year before… which means that the bulls didnt have a number one pick then to grab him
I remember Michael dribbling at the top of the key. Everybody knew to just get the hell out of his way. - Steve Kerr
I worry about the implications, not the repercussions.
Repercussions such as punishment, public bashing, loss in endorsement money—these things are pretty inconsequential.
But if the implication here is that Rose is just an unintelligent person who cannot take on the mental challenge of growing into the role of a point guard, then I fear he may turn into Steve Francis. That would be my worst nightmare come true. Our dreams of him being “Jason Kidd with a jumpshot” are totally shot.
I’m not sure if there’s a correlation between learning the PG position in the NBA and SAT scores or grades. So I’m hoping that he shows the mental ability to become a brilliant passing point guard…
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
Standardized tests
are a joke. They tell you nothing more than how you will perform on that test in those conditions, i.e. time constraints. Standardized tests focus on what many consider are the most important to excel in higher learning. They don’t measure time management, determination, or anything like that.
There are various forms of I.Q.
I won’t go into a list, but just think of the people that can draw free-hand seeing an item one time, but can’t balance a checkbook. An example of above average artistic Intelligence, below average mathematical intelligence. Or people that could design the most sleek invention ever, but couldn’t write a cleanly read instruction manual. An example of above average mechanical intelligence, below average composition intelligence…
People even have different levels of social intelligence.
I.Q. with regards to sports exists. There’s just no known way to calculate it. Again, how do you measure court/field vision, determination, passion for learning, passion for executing, etc.?
You think Jordan, Bird, Magic, Russel, Stockton, Oscar etc. didn’t have incredible basketball I.Q.‘s? Absolutely. Doesn’t mean they should work for NASA.
by kingj41 on Jun 1, 2009 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
First off, I agree that the SAT's and even good grades don't correlate to basketball ability.
Not the point.
None of those great players you mentioned had this kind of documented grade scandal. There are some players who have become all-stars who were indicted for receiving money from boosters (Webber, Jalen Rose), but for the most part, grade scandals and receiving money under the table is like a huge neon sign saying, “I am a character risk”. I mean, why invite that kind of scrutiny? It doesn’t bode well for the organization.
Why do you think the Bulls conduct so many tests ad nauseum, including psychological ones? Part of it is that they want someone who is mentally strong and can solve problems similar to the ones thrown at them during game situations. But part of it is “character” and not causing shame or scandal to the organization. Essentially, it’s bad for business. Why give your critics another bullet to shoot you with? It doesn’t make any sense.
And lastly, even though there’s not necessarily a correlation between grades (or SAT) and basketball IQ, I would argue that there is a correlation between street smarts and basketball IQ. And what Rose is charged with here is just plain stupid, because if true, it placed his status at risk while he was leading his college team to the NCAA championship in the national spotlight. So that means that he was putting the team’s record and potentially the college careers of his teammates at risk. It would have been smarter to go to a junior college and work your way up to college PG rather than take the risk that he took.
Rose was dumb enough to have someone else take his SAT’s or .
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
Rose was dumb enough to have someone else take his SAT’s or whatever, placing all that he had at risk. That reminds me a little too much of our last high profile PG’s approach to motorcycle riding.
So much for him being the new, respectable face of the organization.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
So, you're saying
an 18 year old isn’t influenced by anyone around him. Especially family members. If your big brother ‘has your back’ and tells you ’he’s got you taken care of,’ aren’t you going to trust him? Unless he’s put you in shady situations before, why would you not trust the person closest to you advising you? If this allegation is true, I think Derrick is one of the least guilty parties, and more a victim of being ‘pimped’ for his basketball skills.
Didn't say pimped
by his fam. Said pimped for his skills. Pimped by the University. Pimped by whomever made the decisions if this actually did happen.
I’m saying that his brother was looking out for Derrick’s best interest, and if someone told him ‘not to worry about it,’ then his brother felt comfortable enough for Derrick not to worry about it. For real.
That would be a smart comment if...
You need to realize a couple things. First off, how are we to know that the LBJs, KGs, and other straight from high school draftees would not have had grade scandals if they were forced to play a year in college? They were never put in this position. Second, how are we to know there aren’t other grade scandals that are simply covered up? At my old high school, I know that football players were given extensions on homework assignments and papers. Many of them paid people to do papers for them. Nobody would have ever found out about this unless they dug very carefully since their grades never appeared low.
You know what I think is great evidence that Rose will be just fine? His statistics from his rookie year. His ROY award. That’s all that matters right now.
I wouldn't worry about that.
Derrick Rose is no different today than he was a month ago. He is a student of the game of basketball and that’s the only kind of student he needs to be. He has nowhere near the sense of entitlement that Steve Francis had coming into the league either. Rose will be fine.
As for tests, Brian Griese scored a 39 of 50 on the wonderlic test. Dan Marino scored a 16. Give me Marino ANY DAY!!!
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jun 1, 2009 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Those are great points about Greise, Marino and the Wunderlich (and Rec'd)
There are exceptions to the general rule that tests correlate to success in a pro athlete’s career. It seems that the NFL has a couple of other really good examples. Jerry Rice, arguably the greatest receiver of all time, tested out at a pretty ordinary level, while the mediocre at best Jeff George tested off the charts.
What sucks about the Rose situation (aside from the what I’ve mentioned above) is that it’s a double-whammy of a grade scandal and money under the table.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
I take it this is sarcasm NBA Observer.
Because Lord knows when you are a top prospect getting ready for the Wonderlic…the SAT can “kick rocks”. SAT becomes about the most irrelevant thing in the world at that point. I don’t think the 49ers where half as concerned about Alex Smith’s SAT as they were with his Wonderlic while negotiating that 6 yr/49.5M contract with $24M in guarantees. Now that it seems he’s a bust, he can take his $24M guaranteed and take the SAT again and see if he can get a higher score since people want to act like it’s important.
For the average guy, the SAT matters. For superstar athletes who are guaranteed early draft picks…the SAT is a big waste of time.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jun 3, 2009 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Or maybe we can use Matt Stafford and his 6yr/$72Million...
…dollar deal of which $42 Million is guaranteed. I’m sure he really cares about the SAT. He’s gonna go retake it and get a higher score ASAP. Yeah right.
You see, we’re not talking about your average run of the mill guys here. We’re talking about guys who understand that they have legitimate shots at being pros long before draft day (as Smith and Stafford were both #1 picks…and obviously Rose was as well). When you’re talking about that level, who cares about a damn SAT?
Then to single Rose out this way is ludicrous. I knew guys with FAR less talent who had folks take their ACT for them (we didn’t have to take the SAT when I was in high school). And these guys weren’t going pro. They were trying no to be prop 48’s. This happens FAR more often than anyone can imagine. If they just let the boys go to the league out of high school then this wouldn’t be such an issue. There would be other issues, but this wouldn’t be one of them.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jun 3, 2009 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions
All college athletics are the same...
I tutored a kid in High School in ’94 who was an all state running back and challenged state track and field records…. I think he set the 400 meter state record at the time. He scored a 15 on the ACT after my help and could not get into U of I, so I asked my buddie (who went on to school at Harvard and was top 5% in his graduating class) to help… His score went up to a whopping 16! He still got into U of I on academic probation with a full ride football scholarship. He never made the pros because he was too dumb to learn and execute the plays… I think he was a punt returner for a season.
My Dad tells me a story about a kid he tutored in college who was a lineman for U of I back in the 70’s. He only showed up to his tutoring session 2 times in a semester, and the school paid him twice a week for one hour to teach this kid… he just didn’t care, but man he could block! He never graduated, was drafted and later cut. My dad said the last he heard of him he was in prison for assault.
Athletic Kids have been getting into schools like this for years… I don’t see why anyone is surprised by any of this. The media must not have had anything better to talk about.
I agree.
But unlike the two guys you speak of, Derrick Rose has “made” it for all intent and purposes and he’s got a wall of people close to him who surround him and keep him from doing stupid things for the most part.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jun 1, 2009 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions
all there is to take from this
the one and done rule is stupid, and derrick rose probably wasn’t a very good student. but hey, let’s force kids who have no business being in college to go there so the ncaa can exploit them and make millions off them.
i still love you derrick.
by Calogero on Jun 1, 2009 3:59 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
This doesn't bother me one bit.
How old was he when this happened?? 17 or 18. Like the OP wrote above, this whole story sheds a light on the idiotic system the NBA has in place more than anything.
What I’d like to see is a)either the one year out-of-high school rule be changed or b) some type of basketball academy be set up where top-flight prospects coming out of high-school can work on their game so when the time comes to enter the draft they would be more ready than they would have been if they played in college. They would be competing against the best of the best at their age level and ideally be taught by those who understand the NBA game, as college ball is much, much different than pro-ball. The only potential downside to something like this is “what about the kids that go to this academy that don’t pan out?”
Do you know anything about business?
David Stern’s focus is to run the best business he can. The teams that are in the top 10 of the lottery are guaranteed to pay that player > $10 mil over his 1st contract, whether or not he produces. The +1 rule was put into effect to prevent teams from screwing themselves.
Why pay a guy $10 – $20 mil to have the rights to develop him, when you have an avenue to develop them without the monetary commitment. The international leagues do the same thing now. The only party that gains anything without the +1 rule is the players lucky enough to be 1st round picks and get that guaranteed money.
Without the +1 rule, NBA teams suffered, NCAA teams suffered, players that didn’t get drafted suffered, NBA quality suffered. I would be in favor of a +2 rule. No one complains about the NFL +3 rule. It’s been challenged and held up in court when it was challenged.
Let’s use the local team to examine how this effected the team.
-Tyson Chandler, Eddy Curry – touted as the future of the league. Paid handsomely to never develop. Handcuffed the franchise for years. Wouldn’t you rather have seen those guys play against a little better competition, receive the coaching needed, and allowed to experience a more natural, gradual level of competition; the worst case being the realization that they aren’t NBA caliber players. Wouldn’t you as a business, want to know that before allowing hundreds of millions of guaranteed dollars to be distributed to ‘projects.’
Think about the NBA game when the rule didn’t exist. You had teams drafting players and having to play them to try to develop them to get a return on their investment. The games were disturbingly bad. The veteran teams were much more successful. The bad teams continued to get worse by gambling on draft picks’ potential.
Financially, those teams were screwing themselves, as they got no return on the investment, and spent tons of hours trying to develop and coach potential.
NCAA basketball teams spent hours of travel time, recruitment dollars, etc. only to have a kid opt-out of his commitment, and decide to go into the league, which really screwed the team, the university, and other recruits that might have otherwise made a different decision. Coaches had to make due with the team they had, but their planning and rosters were adversely affected.
Also, think about the undrafted high school players. They can still go to college, but they no longer had the option to play. It really made no sense to me. You haven’t signed a contract to play professionally, so why do you lose your eligibility? What about those guys that didn’t have the ability to survive in college academically, after relying so heavily on sports, and not spending any time in the books. Yes, they did it to themselves, but the false hopes of guaranteed money put education on the back-burner.
I’m at no way against an individual making the most possible money that they can. But the NBA is a business. They run their organization the way any organization runs their business. The want to provide the best finished product that costs the the least to provide. For every Lebron and Amare, you had a Darius Miles, Kwame Brown, Segana Diop, Robert Swift, Sebastian Telfair, etc. Even Dwight Howard, Andrew Bynum and Josh Smith took some years to begin contributing consistently as they developed their game.
Don’t complain about the +1 rule. The game would be much worse without it.
I disagreee completely.
If taking a player coming out of HS is so risky, then don’t take that guy. Nobody is putting a gun to a GM’s head making him spend a top ten pick on a HS talent. I don’t care much for what this does for college basketball. Kids coming out of HS should have the right to go and play in the NBA, and if teams have trouble evaluating young talent it’s the team’s problem, not the kids problem.
All of the HS kids are going to college for one year, max, which won’t do all that much for their development path anyhow. You make it seem like college players don’t become busts and cost franchises money.
To your original point, how many HS kids have been drafted top ten? Not many, and most of those drafted seem to have done well.
Darius Miles, Kwame Brown, Eddy Curry, Tyson Chandler, Desagana Diop, Amare Stoudemire, Lebron James, Dwight Howard, Shaun Livingston, Martell Webster and Andrew Bynum. Those are all of the HS kids taken in the top ten since 2000. The only true busts on that list are Kwame Brown, Desagana Diop and Martell Webster. The rest of those players are all high quality players, and if Miles and Livingston didn’t get injured, they would be very good.
There’s a risk in drafting, for sure, but drafting HS kids doesn’t seem to backfire any more than College kids.
My original point
is that the NBA is a business and they have the right to selectively discriminate based on their chosen criteria. The problem they have with choosing age is that it’s both sensitive and impossible to determine ability solely on age.
You can’t be a doctor without a Ph. D. But if you are a genius, then you can be a doctor at a very young age. Same with a mechanic. You need a certificate of training to advertise yourself as one.
If the NBA were to say, you need an associate degree before you’re eligible to become a part of their organization, what would be the difference? Instead, they cite age as the determining factor for eligibility.
From the standpoint of a fan, I want players that have at least experienced a different level of competition than one they may have dominated by being superior to inferior competition. I don’t want to see a player completely develop on the NBA stage.
If I were a player I would argue that the NBA was preventing me from achieving my maximum potential and earnings by disallowing an earlier entry.
If I’m a franchise, I want the best of both worlds: the ability to draft the best young talent when I’m at the top of the draft, and some sort of cushion in the event a draft pick is a bust.
And my final point about the game possibly being worse… I just remember watching a game a few years back that had become a 1-on-1 match-up every time down court because players didn’t know how to play basketball. It was ugly and much less interesting. A part of that was trying to use a players ‘talent’ to make up for his lack of ‘experience.’ They didn’t know how to functionally play ‘team basketball.’
I think that the coaching bridge, coupled with experience, and a less severe bump in the competition level that the current rule offers does wonders for a kid building confidence, learning the game, and becoming more ready to contribute. That’s what I don’t want to lose.
Not very bright
You see it in his interviews, and with his lack of point guard skills in the NBA, he’s an extrtemely athletic, big, and strong point guard and that’s it. Not a great assist guy, not a great play maker, not great defense, and not very bright! Physically gifted though!
What do you mean "his lack of point guard skills"?
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
His point guard skill proved to be superior to those of...
…Steve Nash, Deron Williams, Rajon Rondo, and any other number of PGs in the league now when they were rookies. He just completed what was arguably the 3rd or 4th greatest season ever for a rookie point guard. I find it hard to believe you can make a statement like this….at least about the basketball part.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jun 1, 2009 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah and I'm not so sure about
seeing how bright he is by interviews. I know kids that hate public speaking but when it came to school they were doing perfectly fine. I think thats kind of a harsh judgment. But all the stuff on the court he already proved what hes capable of.
People call Tyrus Thomas dumb
Since he wasn’t groomed in basketball camps like Rose and most these other players, they confuse his lack of basketball experience with being dumb, but he’s far from it. Rose on the other hand is a slow witted, somewhat dumb guy!
Since you know both of them personally, right?
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
Scottie Pippen was a pretty dumb guy off the court
On the court, he was one of the smartest players I’ve ever seen. The phrase “basketball IQ” really has more to do with instincts than with actual intelligence.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
by Big D on Jun 1, 2009 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pippen has one of the greatest memoris I have ever seen
This guy remembers almost every play he’s been apart of. It’s incredible.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
What evidence do you have?
CP3 had a solid D rocking in freshman english at one point. Does that mean he is a dumb basketball player? Have you ever heard Shaq talk? He sounds like a moron most of the time, but I’d take Shaq in his prime any day of the week. As for his “lack of PG skills”, you might actually be on some sort of drug to make a statement like that? Let’s look at Steve Nash, a pretty good point guard wouldn’t you say? In Nash’s 3rd season (he was 24 years old) he averaged 7.9 points and 5.5 ast per game. Even if we normalize this to per 36 minutes, since Nash was playing 31 mpg, Nash averaged 8.9 points and 6.2 assists per game. Rose avveraages 16.3 points and 6.1 assists per 36 minutes as a 20 year old rookie. So as a 20 year old, Rose averages nearly double the points per 36 and same number of assists. Great work there!
This whole thing makes me mad
It’s a perfect case of why the 1 year of college rule is idiotic.
Think about it. If Rose could do it all over again, I would encourage him to do the exact same thing over again. Quite frankly, the reward is too high, and the punishment is too low to make any other option more attractive.
Can anyone claim that Rose is in a worse position than he would have been had he sat out for a year, or gone to Europe, and sat on a bench all year like Brandon Jennings?
It's not like Jennings is that bad off though
Despite barely playing in Europe, he still looks like he’s going to be a top-10 pick, which is about where he was projected to a year ago. I hope that he’s successful in the NBA, so more players start seriously considering Europe.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
by Big D on Jun 1, 2009 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Anything that screws the NCAA is good!
so more players start seriously considering Europe.
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jun 1, 2009 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Me too.
He looks great.
Three things you must know:
-"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
-Pau Gasol: The defense of a seven foot ladder paired with the post presence of Manute Bol.
-Joakim Noah is better than you.
What do you mean "Toy Story 2 was an okay movie"
It was waaaay better than the first once. I demand examples!
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
I was just joking around and
completing my trio of indignation. :)
(see posts above)
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
Toy Story 3 is coming out next year!
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Lexdiamonds
When I say point guard skills, I mean handles, assists, decision making, setting up others. I dont see much of that, I see a big, strong, explosive extremely athletic guard who can penetrate, finish strong, and hit the mid range shot, but thats it. Jason Kidd has great skills Baron Davis does, Nash does, and maybe Devin Harris does, I think that’s it. Rose has good skills but not great skills. He’s more like a Marbury without the handles but more power!
And Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Rajon Rondo, Steve Nash and Chauncy Billups stink as point guards?
Jason Kidd has great skills Baron Davis does, Nash does, and maybe Devin Harris does, I think that’s it
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on Jun 2, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Rose
definitively has handles…assits aren’t all that and for a rookie he did great since we basically didn’t even know what to do on offense for half a season. Decision making his assists to turnovers were great and setting up others we saw him improve each game with that.
Also hes 20 years old and I think he’ll probably surpass Devin Harris his 2nd year no kidding. But can’t tell if you’re kidding
Mr Rhythm, here are the rookie numbers for 8 of the best PGs in the league today.
Baron Davis, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, and Deron Williams
Jameer Nelson, Chris Paul, Rajon Rondo, Derrick Rose
For good measure here are rookie numbers Mike Bibby, Chauncey Billups, Andre Miller and Tony Parker:
Rose compares favorably to all these guys and flat out blows some of them out of the water. Who would dare question Steve Nash’s ability to set up others? Nobody today. When Rondo was a rookie, who thought he’d be capable of averaging a triple double in ANY round of the playoffs? Nobody…or he’d have been drafted a lot higher than he originally was. With the exception of Mike Bibby and maybe Andre Miller, the rest of these guys experienced pretty significant development over the years…as will Derrick Rose.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Jun 2, 2009 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions
You lost all credibilty when you have Baron Davis as a good decision maker
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 2, 2009 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Derrick Rose has some of the best handles I've ever seen.
That guy can stop and start in an instant, w/ either hand, change direction, and the ball is never out of his control.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
AHHH!
You are a moron. Fine, let’s look at a great point guard then and see how Rose compares.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/architi01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rosede01.html
Tiny Archibald – He is in the hall of fame. His best season came in his 3rd season where he averages 34 points and 11.4 assists. This is one of the greatest point guard seasons ever produced! In his rookie season as a 22 year old he averaged 16.4 points and 5.7 assists per 36 minutes (he played 35). Rose averaged 16.3 points and 6.1 assists per 36 minutes. These are comparable seasons except that Rose is 2 years younger! So, Rose’s rookie season compares to that of a hall of fame point guard. Again, fantastic work. Moron.
There's nothing to make of it
This situation has absolutely NO bearing on anything that is going on now in his life. So I could care less. It just shows what a sham college athletics are if anything. What really bothers me the most is how coaches get to just move on as Calipari has, with little or no consequence and it’s the kids who suffer. One other point is that Reggie Rose has and still does control a lot of Derrick’s decisions. There is no way that stuff came from Derrick’s own doing. Reggie Rose, Simeon HS officials like the coach, administrators, etc had to plan all of this and get Rose to go along with it.
Would that D to a C change Derrick's diploma?
You do need a minimum GPA to graduate. At least you did at my high school.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
Still doesn't matter
You don’t need a degree to play for the NBA, you merely have to wait till you are the minimum age.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Jun 3, 2009 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
It's a one year removed from high school rule
So, take it to its end. Go to school for one year. Drop out. Go play ball. Enter the draft.
No diploma, no college, just skills.
It’s all about the basketball.
Assemble cars? Well you don’t need very much to do that. One year removed from 5th grade? Off the Flint young man. Assemble well.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
Yes, I'm sure lots of kids will be quitting school to go work a minimum wage job
That’s the single dumbest argument you’ve made on this entire subject, and that covers a lot of ground. Please stop before you embarrass yourself even more. How come none of your parade of horribles has happened in Europe, where exceptionally skilled athletes routinely turn pro as teenagers? Ricky Rubio has been a professional for years.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
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