Bulls Confidential: Hinrich to be traded, regardless of Gordon's status
[From the Fanshots. I'll forgive Doug for spamming my sidebar since he's stepping out as a reporter with this one. And because I've been advocating this line of thinking since Rose was drafted (simple: Rose is a PG, Hinrich is a PG).
Kirk had a solid finish and playoffs, but I appreciate it as the way to get his trade value back, not an audition to stay. And as far as Gordon, if you're letting him walk you might as well sell off other productive pieces too, since you're slashing/rebuilding at that point. -ed.]
The Bulls intend to part ways with Kirk this summer at some point.
over 2 years ago
dougthonus
177 comments
0 recs |
Comments
No way would the T-Wolves offer the #6 pick in the draft for Hinrich
If they are, Minnesota fans should burn down the Target Center.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
Actually, I could see both teams doing this deal.
But the sad part is, this draft is so weak that I’m not even excited about the prospective picks…
yeah, this is a weak draft and Hinrich is a good veteran point guard
Look at what the Rockets did when they traded the 8 pick to Memphis for Shane Battier. Everyone lampooned the deal at the time because the Rockets didn’t get the “great” Rudy Gay. Now, Battier is one of the leaders on a 55 win team. Perhaps Minnesota sees it similarly to the way Houston did.
by Basketball Smurf on May 29, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions
#6 pick for Hinrich, hmmm
Who would we even get at #6? Tyreke Evans, Brandon Jennings, Stephen Curry, Demar Derozan, Jonny Flynn are all awful fits with Derrick Rose, either they can’t shoot or they can’t play defense. Seems like an interesting trade, and definitely something I’d do, but something tells me we’d still end up drafting DaJuan :)
All good names. I would add Blair in the mix.
SG, PF, or SF is where they should look.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Too high for Blair
Though I like him….
Yeah I don’t know this would be interesting….Kirk’s a solid vet who can come in and start and lead and play D. I think he’s definitely worth #6 in a perceived weak draft, and still lottery in a good draft (just late lottery)…
I’d try the luck on DeRozan….
How does it work though, do we have to take other crap to make the salaries match, or are draft picks a way to scurt past that issue (like Denver did with Camby last year for a 2nd round pick)…
I like Kirk, but he’s just superflous now with Rose…..like Deng too, if we had all weaknesses addressed, we keep him and are very happy….but with size in the backcourt and inside scoring in the frontcourt as huge issues, we have to make moves…
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
What about Harden if he slips?
This would be contingent on the Jrue Holiday rumors being true, and Hill or Evans going to Washington…but JH might be able to back up both Derrick and Gordon. Or, if he does turn into Brandon Roy lite, that’s a pretty damn good complement for Derrick, no?
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
I'd quickly give up the #6 and #16 to move up two spots.
I think that’s very realistic. If Harden falls, I love that pick. He’s not great, but as long as he improves his 3-pt shooting, he’ll be a damned good complement to Rose.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
There's no way
unless the Bulls somehow don’t draft 3 people in the first round. The salary implications are worse drafting 3 1st rounders vs. keeping Kirk. But if they do trade up, I’d think Earl Clark is a target.
they could sell a later pick
probably don’t want the committed $$ anyway. To me it would mean another piece in a mega-deal: comparable value with much lower cap number.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 29, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think the draft is as weak as they are saying.
No stars but it might be a great roll player draft. I love this idea but doesn’t Hinrich make a boat load of money ? would the Wolves have to send something to match his contract?
By roll player I mean you might be able to find a courtney lee or a david lee.
However I don’t think it’s a bruce lee draft.
Does the roll come when the player goes into the crowd after a loose ball?
"Whoever was responsible for pulling that offer [to Ben Gordon] off the table...bring him before me and I'll punch him right in the face " - Frederick Pfeiffer
by Granny Waiters on May 29, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Only if the player is a round mound
[of rebound?]
Three things you must know:
-"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
-Pau Gasol: The defense of a seven foot ladder paired with the post presence of Manute Bol.
-Joakim Noah is better than you.
yeah, but 3 of them?
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 29, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions
oh no.
I like your idea to include one in a deal. I’d just hope it’s the 16th. However if it takes the 6th pick
to land a star like Amare well then you have to part with it.
It benefits a team like the Bulls
who can deepen there roster. But doesn’t help a team like the Wolves or GS.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Yeah
It’s funny that all the picks last year had us nabbing Blake Griffin at #9…..then he returns to school, we get the #1 pick and suddenly Blake’s the can’t miss out of this draft.
You never know int he draft, I don’t believe any of the hype.
Personally if we traded up, I’d like us to trade the #26 pick for a second round pick and cash, and draft Jerel McNeal…..I think that guy has leadership, can defend and knows how to turn it up…plus not being forced to give him a contract is always nice….kind of a trial.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
I think it's just because this draft is weaker
Blake Griffin would be the 3rd pick if Rose and Beasley stayed for another year.
I agree to that
But I’m saying you never know with some of these mid to late lottery or just past lottery picks….they could surprise more than you’d think.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
Well, another trade would be my hope
But if it’s with a contending team (which would be glad to have lower 1st rounder picks equating to less money), who would they trade for? I would think a team further from contention would want the higher picks. That’s just my thinking.
And the Bulls just can’t gut their roster and count on draft picks or 2010 which may be the most hyped ‘event’ of the NBA, contrary to some of thinking of people here. You can play a 7-8 man rotation in the playoffs. During the year you need 9 or 10 guys that can contribute valuable minutes, even if that means playing good defense and keeping the team in the game. If no one comes runnin this way in 2010 and draft picks are all busts, the team gets set back in a much worse way.
Now, the best thing that could come from this is that Ben gets Kirk’s money. That’d make me smile.
I was saying getting #6 would be part of a mega-deal
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 29, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Hinrich (#6 pick), Deng and Thomas for Bosh?
Holla! That’s still two huge holes to fill at SG and SF down the road, but keeping #16 and #26 at least would give them “let’s see” status.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Sign Gordon, MLE to Anthony Parker?
or #16 or #26 becomes the Salmons backup.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on May 29, 2009 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions
IMHO MLE is too much
may as well throw DeMarcus in there at that point.
Three things you must know:
-"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
-Pau Gasol: The defense of a seven foot ladder paired with the post presence of Manute Bol.
-Joakim Noah is better than you.
Exactly
The Bulls would try and move one or two of the picks for the player they really want; may it be Bosh, Stat, or anyone else. If they can still keep the sixth pick and move the two lower picks in a bigger deal Gar would be doing one hell of a job.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Salary implications are worse?
We’ll have to fill out our roster somehow. The #6 pick will make $2.9 mil this year, the #16 makes $1.6 mil, the #26 makes $1.0 mil. That’s $5.5 mil for three players vs. $9+ mil for one. I’ll take the picks.
I'd sell them and take vet minimums
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 29, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions
sell one, anyway.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 29, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah... I agree
With our rotation set, I can’t see us developing three rookies properly.
that was what I didn't quite
elaborate on about the monetary commitment to guys who aren’t going to give you anything.
Let me fix that for you
With our rotation set, I can’t see us developing three any rookies properly.
Three things you must know:
-"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
-Pau Gasol: The defense of a seven foot ladder paired with the post presence of Manute Bol.
-Joakim Noah is better than you.
this is a very good idea
….unless we draft another PG.
I’d much rather we take this pick and package it up to trade for a scoring threat down low.
by darksmokepuncher on May 29, 2009 1:05 PM CDT reply actions
I'm disappointed
I’ll feel so cheated if Steve Blake and Outlaw don’t become Bulls.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on May 29, 2009 1:32 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
same here...
Hinrich and brandon Roy….i mean cmon!!!!
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Lol, sarcasm for you
but you know this sort of rumor gets the heart pumping for rip city fanatics. It’s funny, around the trade deadline hinrich was injured, hadn’t been playing great, the bulls were not in the playoff position they ended up in, and the “trade for hinrich” bandwagon was virtually dead. Everyone was talking about his bad contract, the fact that he had had a subpar season the year before. It seems to me that his trade value has shot back up, probably even higher now than his actual value. Either way, I think this is when he will have the highest trade value. If you don’t consolidate your guard rotation, I’d imagine he gets even less time next year than he did this year as Rose will take over more responsibilities and ostensibly improve, and gordon will again be the indispensible scorer/clutch player that you guys rely on. I think you have to trade him now for max value, and maybe the bulls management realizes that. Hope we do manage to get him as he would fill a need, but we’ll see what happens. Either way I expect you guys to be big players this offseason, if not the biggest, in terms of making transactions.
"B-Roy is the best shooting guard I have played against"
-Ron Artest
If Artest can say it, so can I. Broy>Kobe.
Why so in love with Blake?
He’s a decent guard but I fully envision Rose playing 40 mpg next season. Blake is a solid guard and he’s very affordable in the $5M/yr range, but I’d be just as happy with a Lindsey Hunter style pg next year for cheaper for the simple fact that I personally would like Rose on the floor for 40+ minutes. LeBron did it a few times and Allen Iverson did it all the time. No reason Rose can’t go 40+.
As for Outlaw, I’d love to see him in a Bulls uniform. I’d trade Deng straight up for Outlaw but that can’t happen because of the money. He’d fit nicely alongside Rose and he’s only a year older than Deng.
BTW, am I the only one who gets the feeling that Ricky Rubio is the second coming of Sergio Rodriguez? I remember this same type of hype surrounding him when he was a 19 yr. old prospect. Maybe I’m wrong. Rubio could eventually become a great player. But I see American high school guards every summer play against NBA guys and look better than Rubio did against the pros. I’m just saying I think we give to much props to these young overseas guys. The last highly touted “can’t miss” teenage prospect from overseas was Darko Milicic and we see how that turned out.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 29, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Your sarcasm meter is broken.
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
I'll have to get that fixed then...LOL.
But still…somebody…ANYBODY…tell me why Ricky Rubio isn’t Sergio Rodriguez or “White Chocolate” Jason Williams. I’ve seen about 100 minutes worth of highlights on Rubio and in all that footage I only saw one play that made me say “WOW”. To be fair, it was one hell of a play. The vision he displayed on that one play was incredible. But there is a kid in high school named John Wall who regularly makes fantastic passes and athletic plays that make you say “WOW”. If anyone saw him at the Pro-Am League last summer you know exactly what I mean.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 29, 2009 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions
John Wall is going to be incredible.
If he were in this draft, I’d strongly consider drafting him over Griffin. In fact, I think I would. Uber-athleticism, ridiculous speed, quickness, agility, ambidextrous, explosive, absurd handle…kid has it all.
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
I agree. John Wall is very similar to Derrick Rose...
…except Wall is naturally more aggressive offensively. He’s also a bit more athletic than Rose, believe it or not. And he’s a legitimate 6’4" so he’s a bit taller too. So I take it you feel that Wall is a better prospect than Rubio. Please go tell the rest of the world because until I see Rubio practice and play against NBA guys in and NBA setting then I don’t want to hear about him being so great.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 29, 2009 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Wall's jumper is worse than Derrick's, but
I think he’s a better natural passer. Either way, I’d put them on about the same level, prospect-wise. Wall is hands-down the #1 pick in the draft next year, no ifs ands or buts about it.
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
Lets see how athletic Wall is
against NCAA level players first.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
Right:
and then I’ll decide.
I will say this, though: he better be strong. It’s the least appreciated of the physical attributes of point guards. Chris Paul, Derrick Rose, Chauncey Billups, D. WIlliams: those a big, built dudes. The only slight point guard worth a damn in the NBA is Rajon Rondo.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIm47B6HW74
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
One more John Wall Video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4CbQGBbUOw&feature=channel
It’s against his high school competition, but the athleticism and the vision is as real as it gets. I saw John Wall play 3 games in the Chicago Pro-Am about two summers ago and let me tell you. He’s the real deal!!
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 30, 2009 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions
He's going to have a wingspan 8" longer than his height.
Guarantee it. He’s a great athlete, but not ridiculously phenomenal like LeBron James or Demar DeRozan, he’s just got the longest arms I’ve ever seen. I bet her measures out at 6’4" (76") w/ a 7’ (84") wingspan, similar to Tyreke Evans. My god.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
As a big Kentucky fan my whole life
(Yes, I know, I went to U of I for school)…I will be watching every single one of Wall’s games next year, so hopefully I can come up with a pretty good scouting report. It will be fun watching him and comparing him to my current favorite PG (Derrick Rose of course).
You’re right – his arms do look incredibly long. And the fact that he can equally handle and dunk with both hands is absolutely phenomenal.
Question, though: What gives you the impression that he’s not the athlete that DeRozan is? And that DeRozan is on the same level of athletic ability that LeBron is? Seriously? I should have paid more attention to DeRozan if so. I’ll have to check out more of his highlights.
I do think you’re underestimating Wall’s athleticism. His explosion is absolutely, off-the-charts absurd. I mean, check out some of these dunks:
I mean, really, this dude is ridiculous!!!!
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
not sure why those links didn't post, but here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wJsCXn_2pw
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
Eh, putting DeRozan in the same sentence as James...
…was obviously foolish. They’re different types of athletes. The best, to me, combine quickness, size, strength, speed and jumping ability. Eye-hand coordination, ball-handling, vision, etc. are probably something like that, but I think of them more as skills.
James and Dwight Howard are the absolute elites to me. (I’m probably missing someone). If Derrick Rose could add 10-15 lbs of muscle in his core, legs and upper body, he’d be like those guys. If Tyrus had more strength, he’d be close to that same level (his speed was great, quickness was okay, if I remember correctly). Chris Anderson is similar. Chris Paul is incredibly quick and fast and sneakily strong, but he doesn’t have that awesome leaping ability. Bryant’s not super-duper anything (at least, not anymore), but he’s well-above average in speed, quickness, strength, jumping, etc. blah blah blah
Anyway, DeRozan just jumps out of the house. My half-assed comment was in reference to that. Wall can jump, but I didn’t see him w/ spectacular, unbelievable, oh-my-god jumping ability like I did w/ DeRozan or James.
I, obviously, can certainly be wrong.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I'm excited to see what DeRozan's athletic measurables are from the combine this year
Vertical jump and all that jazz
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
He's 18 years old?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
no kidding.
and yet when I stalk 18 year olds online it’s considered creepy and disgusting…
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 29, 2009 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Weird story about today...
Oh, never mind.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Darko Milicic was 18 yrs old.
And Nikoloz Tskitishvili was 19. I’m just saying, we’ve heard this stuff before about these ultra-prospects from overseas who are so-called prodigies. We’ve got prodigies right here in the United States. Also, if the league will let an 18 yr. old Rubio in then why this charade where guys have to go to college for a year or be 19 in the States? Makes no sense.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 30, 2009 3:10 AM CDT up reply actions
There's been for more failures of hyped prospects in the states than from overseas.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
That's because there have been more American prospects.
I’ll take my chances with the American guys at the top of the draft.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 30, 2009 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions
The NBA would let in 18 year olds
They just have to be a year out of highschool.
Watch Spain vs USA last summer in Beijing
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on May 29, 2009 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I saw the game and Rubio did alright.
And I also saw him play against China and he had 1 pt and 4 TOs and against Angola, Croatia and Lithuania where he had 0, 3 and 4 pts if I’m not mistaken and he played like 20 minutes in those games.
But I’ve seen young American guys play better than Rubio did against high level NBA competition (go to some Pro-Am league games around playoff time or go to Hoops or Attack Athletics on a summer day after the NBA draft and you’ll see what I mean). Hell Patty Mills played MUCH better against the United States than Rubio could have in his dreams and he’s only 20 yrs old. Mills ran roughshot on the US when he came in the game.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 30, 2009 3:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Same type of hype?
Sergio Rodriguez…..Ricky Rubio…..does not compute.
by Sabonis4Ever on May 30, 2009 3:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Compute this.
Here is a profile about Rodriguez dated May 2006:
Sergio Rodriguez NBA Draft Scouting Report
by:
May 24, 2006
Strengths
Sergio Rodríguez is an off-the-charts basketball talent; one of just a few players capable of surprising even the most knowledgeable minds in the game with his moves. A very creative playmaker, he has a superb ability to generate offense, whether for himself or for his teammates, based on an outstanding skill set.
Not a superb athlete, nor a physical freak, Sergio fills the bill for the basic tools required to carry his game to the next level. At 6-3, he has good size to handle the position while showing a nice enough frame for a point guard. Even if there’s still significant work to do, his body development in the past few years has been noticeable, particularly during the previous season. He won’t blow anybody with his athleticism, but he’s a fairly quick guy and he let’s his skills do the rest.
As you can see, there is nothing particularly special regarding his physical profile; what really sets him apart from virtually every other youngster is his skill set. To start with, Sergio is a terrific ball-handler. More in the line to what we usually see in American playmakers, he dominates the ball. High dribble, low dribble, crossover, behind-the-back dribble, he’s mastered every single variant at a young age with both hands. But he’s not an exhibitionist; it’s only a matter of gaining advantages through this skill. He’s really quick driving the ball, and creative in order to get to where he wants.
With these credentials, it’s very hard to stop him whenever to decides to step into the lane. He’s a great one-on-one player. Even if he’s not that explosive, he has a nice first step, terrific footwork, and the ability to easily change gears. Predictable is not a word in Sergio’s dictionary, although it’s true that he tends to go right looking the way for the basket. One of his patented moves is, once in motion, faking going right and then crossing the ball and slashing the other way right by his defender, a move that is very difficult to contest. Sergio also shows nice ability finishing his slashing moves. Although he might have his shot blocked from time to time, particularly when he’s trying to drive past too many rivals, he usually finds the way to leave the layup, using the glass if necessary. He also has an effective short off-the-dribble jumpshot that he can release even over players that are significantly taller than him.
Perhaps the most spectacular among his skills, Sergio is a consummate passer. Enjoying outstanding court vision, it’s in those slashing situations where he probably shines the most. Whenever he forces a defensive rotation, he has the ability to find the open man, intelligently seeing the floor and utilizing the opposite side of the floor for a quick reverse to get the defense off-balance. He’s automatic in pick and roll plays, showing perfect timing to distribute the ball, or finishing himself if the defenders opt not to switch. It’s needless to say how helpful this will be in the NBA, where there’s more emphasis on individual defenses rather than team defenses. When Sergio is on the court, it’s not rare to see a wing cutting by the baseline while the pick and roll takes all the attention, and to be perfectly fed by Rodríguez.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 30, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Just in case you're tempted to say "But he was almost 20 yrs old then" here is more from 2004....
…when he was 17/18:
“He’s an absolutely spectacular player to watch. He has many of the characteristics of Raul López, handles the ball better than anybody in the ACB, with both hands as well, and he’s very flexible and agile. His one advantage over Raul López, who I followed quite a bit when he was Sergio’s age: he’s much more of a scorer. Just so you have some context, as a Junior player Raul was actually considered a better player than Tony Parker, and along with Juan Carlos Navarro led the Spanish Junior Team to the gold medal in the World Championships and the European Championships. I’ve read in some places about comparisons being made with Navarro, to me he only resembles him in his fearlessness and pentration ability. Like Navarro he has the willingness to practically create his own shot going 1 on 5. But other then that his technical level is superior to Navarro’s, especially his handles and passing ability. He’s a pure point: he gets a lot of assists and controls the team around him. Navarro’s assists also used to come more from dishing the ball off after or while penetrating, which is not bad at all, he is just not as pure of a point.”
And now he’s backing up the great Steve Blake. Now anybody who knows anything about Rodriguez knows he’s a decent player. No denying that. But had someone used a #2 or #3 overall pick on him then he’d be a MAJOR failure at this point.
Bottom line is I’m not sure about all this Rubio hype. He may end up being a fine player, but I’d hesitate when it comes to declaring him a superstar in the making. I mean, LeBron James was a sure thing. We gotta wait and see with Rubio before proclaiming him the greatest PG…especially in this day and age where there are great young American PGs in the league…and more to come.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 30, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
After watching 3 years of Sergio
And a couple games of Rubio. There are two major differences in their games. Defense and shooting.
by Sabonis4Ever on May 30, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh sure that's fine to say now.
But where were you 3, 4, 5 years ago when these scouting reports were written up for Rodriguez?
The above scouting report looks very similar to Rubio’s. Again, I’m not saying Rubio won’t turn out to be a great guard. But I’m always a bit wary of the hype overseas guys receive. The International game is completely different than the NBA game. The skills the overseas guys possess don’t always translate.
BTW,
Who’s scouting report do you think this is:
WEAKNESSES:
- Efficiency
- Mid-range game
- Turnover prone
- Ability to fight through screens
- Can NBA rookie scale compete financially w/other options?
- Ability to finish around basket
- Average athleticism
- Average explosiveness
- Plays below the rim
- Strength
- Ability to shoot off the dribble
- Low shooting percentages
- Slow release
That’s Ricky Rubio. I don’t know where you saw that he’s a good shooter. Please don’t tell me you based your opinion of Rubio’s shooting on highlight tapes because obviously they’re not going to put any misses on there. All the scouting reports on Rubio say that he’s a weak jump shooter. So maybe the only difference is defense…which I’m still not convinced that Rubio can play at the NBA level…at least not right away like many are projecting.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 30, 2009 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions
He shot 43% from 3 point land this season (22 games)
by Sabonis4Ever on May 31, 2009 2:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Hey, I didn't write the scouting report.
The same source you Linked me to wrote it.
And he only shot 37% from 2 pt range..and in the 5 EURO games he shot worse than that.
And all the other stuff in their report rings true.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 31, 2009 3:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Doubtful
Hmm… I’m just not seeing it. Even if the source has some inside information, why would the Bulls specify they’re trading Kirk independent of whether the Bulls re-sign Ben Gordon?
Jerry Reinsdorf seems driven by finances up until the team reaches championship level, but at the same time, he puts forth a good faith effort to acquire the best talent. And from both a talent and financial point of view, it doesn’t make that much sense for the team to simply write Hinrich out of all future plans regardless of what happens with other perimeter spots.
Unless there’s something else going on here, like some sort of major falling out between the parties, this one doesn’t make that much sense to me.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
Because they don't want to pay 10 mil to someone coming off the bench.
If you look at it by position Hinrich is a PG and Rose is the starting PG. Gordon is independent from the decision because he is a SG. So the SG spot has no implications from the decision to keep Hinrich.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
If this means that
the Bulls are acknowledging Hinrich as a backup PG and not a double-duty PG-SG, then that in itself would show some ability to adapt on the part of Reinsdorf. I guess I had written him off due to his love of Hinrich, and by that I mean, his tendency to forever use love of Hinrich as an excuse not not sign Ben.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
If this is true and the six pick is on the table
I would do it in a heartbeat ….. At six 6 we could grab take Ben’s replacement and create further cap room for 2010. For instance let’s say we send Kirk and the 16 to Minny, they send back the 6 along with Mark Madsen and Brain Cardinal.
Why does Minny do this?
Well they did want Kirk last year, Randy Foye has imporved but he’s not going to be your point guard anytime soon. With Kirk, Foye, Jefferson, Love, Miller they have a nice core right now. They can use 16 to draft Austin Daye or Dejuan Summers to play small forward.
Why do we do it?
I have a strong feeling that we are going to make Ben a offer that he’s going to see again as an insult given the way he palyed in the playoffs. He might take a hire gun contract (roughly the same amount of money for like 2 or three years) somewhere else. If that’s the case we will have to find someone to replace him long term. Demar Rozen I think will put up healthy Vince Carter numbers, James Harden is being called the poor man’s Brandon Roy and Tyreke Evans has beast written all over him. Taking on Madsen and Cardinal would strictly be a salary dump for next offseason and make us a major player with Miller, Salmons, Tim Thomas, Jerome James coming off the books as well.
If there is any thruth to the rumor, I’d pull the trigger
I'd be surprised in the Wolves
want to get younger. The club needs veterans that play defense not to mention they’re desperate for a point guard that can feed the post and make a jump shot.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on May 29, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Just to be clear..
I’m only saying I’ve heard the Bulls want to move Hinrich, and that thought isn’t contingent on whether they bring back Gordon.
The 6th pick thing is just a separate rumor I lumped into the same article since it seemed to fit in with the Bulls desire to move Hinrich.
I have the same type of thinking
if you duplicate a position you then move one of the players to fill a position of need. It would be the best move to make regardless of Gordons situation.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
My dream draft:
James Harden with the 6, Blair with the 16. Harden can back up both Rose and Gordon, since he’s really a big combo guard more than anything.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
woops.
We’d be giving them the 16, now wouldn’t we.
Actually, this is a pretty good trade for them. Hmm.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
They don't have to get 16 back.
For next year, Hinrich, Miller, Jefferson and Love isn’t horrible. And if they want to unload players who aren’t going to play like Cardinal or whomever else, they’d have to realize they’d be taking a good Bulls player while giving them two players that are crap… so the 6th is good incentive.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
dont forget foye too
you can do much, much worse than a starting 5 of kirk, foye, miller, jefferson, and love
Yeah, it wouldn't a good team and not one in the playoffs in the West...
….but it’s a lot better than shitty.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
i actually think that could be a playoff team in the west
the bottom is going to fall out on teams like dallas, phoenix, and san antonio sooner rather than later, and who knows what’s going to happen with new orleans considering they’re hemmoraging money and shinn is cheap. plus utah is far from stable, and minny was playing really well until al jeff down. add a couple complementary bench pieces to that starting 5 and i could see them at the 7 or 8 seed in the west
maybe
hinrich definitely helps them more now than Harden, DeRozan or Evans, just as Salmons would help Toronto more now than Henderson or Williams.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
i don't see
a problem with three picks in this draft. even the experts that poo-poo it admit there is depth here. the only trouble might be getting 1st and 2nd year guys minutes to see if they’re worth extending or signing as restricted free agents when that time comes.
the coach and the management would have to actually excel at what they’re supposed to.
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
Oh, I definitely don't mind having the picks either.
Getting young players who can play is essential to building – as much for economic reasons as anything else. I just meant I would assume we’d have to give up our 16 to get the Wiz to agree.
Good god…to get cap relief, and the 6 for a player we no longer really have a position for…just too good to be true, right?
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
nice rumor
partly makes sense to me, as i’ve been saying the two midget little guards’ futures ideally would be considered each in their own little vacuum. doubt t-wolves trade a chance to pick Harden Evans or Derozan for him though. that would be smart, and if they’d been smart, they’d already have roy instead of foye to match with kirk.
Now it appears that the Bulls are rebuilding entirely around Rose, or at least that’s my take on a decision to trade Kirk regardless of whether Ben comes back. The team seems like it would take an awfully big step backwards if it loses both players.but this take makes no sense to me, until one considers how last year this guy doug said rose couldn’t go left and beasley was the pick to fit and produce immediately.
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
zing!
but, Beasley failed the blocks test, no doubt.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 29, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions
no; he just had too many friends with benefits.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
now, now
the team that asked that wasn’t the Bulls.
When I first read the post this morning I thought it was the Bulls asking that, and I was about to rage into a long post about character and Derrick Rose’s SATs and all that.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 29, 2009 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions
You didn't have to pump Activia all into my joke :)
Now I have to go back and re-read the article because I read it wrong.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
heh, sorry to step on your comedy bits
I only did so because that’s how I first read that thing myself. :)
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 29, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions
if the Bulls solely focused on intelligent behavior
Explain Brad Miller and Joakim Noah. VDN if you’re daring.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
They have intelligent behavior,
they just get very stressed. You know sometimes you need to relax amirite?
Maybe Reinsdorf secretly is pushing for the legalization of medical marijuana?
Three things you must know:
-"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
-Pau Gasol: The defense of a seven foot ladder paired with the post presence of Manute Bol.
-Joakim Noah is better than you.
I did think Beasley would produce immediately
But if you watch all the times Rose drives in college, he couldn’t finish with his left hand. He constantly switched the ball from his left to his right hand even when it gave him an awkward finish. He may have improved considerably on that, but it’s still something which shows up when watching his college film.
Actually Doug,
Derrick’s said many times that he’s motivated by people saying he has a weakness.
So do me a favor and, on your next podcast, call him the worst defender in the league and a historically bad three point shooter to boot.
Thanks much.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on May 29, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Well done.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on May 29, 2009 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions
If it gets the job done I'm game
And he is easily in the bottom 10% of guards in the league defensively. I doubt he’ll ever be a good three point shooter, because he doesn’t put much arc on his shot, but he’s not historically bad, and should become a great mid range shooter.
Oh, I don't think he's historically bad,
and actually I differ with you in regard to his three point shot – the lack of arc stems from where he puts his off hand. In terms of lift, elbow placement, feet and rotation, he’s got a nice shot. But don’t listen to me. Find the expert who says otherwise.
:)
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
Also add
That he can’t lead, can’t shoot at all and is slow…..
Just to see how much better he’ll get.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
Portland could absorb Etan Thomas’ contract from Washington and trade the fifth pick for Hinrich… that deal makes sense for all parties involved.
Fearthesword.com: "There is no doubt that the long layoff, combined with the ease of the first two rounds had the Cavaliers a bit tired in the 4th quarter."
Cablin
You’re getting close to sacriledge.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
that's a pretty steep price for contract absorbing
at least throw Washington a ‘prospect’.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 29, 2009 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions
One could even argue
That Washington might be really willing to absorb the Luxury Tax hit as long as it’s not a long term deal. Assuming 1 of the big 3 aren’t traded, that shouldn’t be a major long term problem for the Wizards. Jes sayin.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'd rather Portland absorb a guy who expires past 2010
Like Stevenson or Songaila. We can save Etan to expire or use in a mega-deal.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I'm gonna miss Kirk Hinrich.
Say what you want about Hinrich, but call #12 a competitor. Hinrich gave it all he had and I respect him for that. Hinrich never gave anyone any reason to not pull for him. Just too bad that his time as a Bull is coming to an end. I hope he eventually ends up in a winning situation somehow someway.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 29, 2009 4:50 PM CDT reply actions
how soon we forget mope-fest 2008.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 29, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Now YFBB let's keep it real here now.
When asking whether I’d take Hinrich over Gordon the answer is a resounding HELL NO!!! But that doesn’t mean I don’t like the guy. In no way, shape or form do I think that Hinrich starting at the 2 is a better option than BG starting at the 2 and that’s what the argument really was. It was basically me defending Ben Gordon against all the Gordon haters here who wanted Hinrich to start alongside Rose…which as I said then AND as it turns out was the wrong move. But Hinrich as Rose and Gordon’s backup worked fine for me. It’s just that at $9.5M that’s an expensive backup.
Let it be said nowhere that I don’t like Hinrich. I’ve always admired his style of play. But I did not like the notion of him starting over Gordon at the 2 even being entertained. Not Hinrich’s fault that people thought he could do it though.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 29, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Blazers fan here ...
I’d like Kirk in another black and red uni next year.
What do you guys feel is fair value for him?
Just thinking out loud here, would you take Rudy Fernandez, Travis Outlaw and the 24th pick for him? Too much, too little, just right, wrong pieces, etc.?
Rudy and the pick would be awesome.
I think pretty much everyone here would do that deal in a second. Seems like no other Blazers fan would be willing to give up on the Sacred Rudy, though!!! Don’t touch him!!!
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
Here's the thing I see with Rudy
I like Rudy … a lot, but he’s always going to be Brandon Roy’s backup and will never have a chance to be a starter, if he went to chicago I can actually see him jockeying for the starting spot as a shooting guard because Gordon (if he gets resigned) seems much better suited coming in as a super sub.
You’re right though, lots of my fellow blazermaniacs have a pretty unhealthy obsession over Rudy.
And neither would the GM. Second most popular player right now. Helps to win games, comes through in big moments. Sells tickets.
Ginobili never played more than 30 minutes per season (or just once), and he is an amazing player. I don’t understand any urge to trade a player who might one day look for more minutes or a starting spot but not now. And he is dirt-cheap even for a backup. What if Roy gets injured, then we are screwed.
I just threw it out there
Rudy is the absolute maximum amount of “value” I’d be willing to trade, if Chicago would take less then awesome, but if they demanded Rudy I’d have to give it pretty serious thought.
I'd take Rudy straight up for Hinrich. no pick needed
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Yeah, well what if Steve Blake is your starting PG?
Then you’re screwed.
…oh, wait, he is. Oops, my bad!
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
And got 2 dozen alley oops last year.
Even if he only had 27 dunks total.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
What if Roy gets injured, then we are screwed.
I’ve never understood that logic. If Brandon Roy gets hurt you’re screwed no matter what, unless Kobe Bryant is his backup. If Roy gets hurt you happily take your lottery pick, pray for some luck and make plans for next season. Rudy Fernandez ain’t gonna take you where you wanna go.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on May 30, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions
since we're discussing Hinrich for the #6 over all pick in the draft....
…figure out the players you think will be available there, think if the Blazers have someone comparable to that player, then see if he would fit w/ the Bulls, or be a good piece for a bigger trade.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Jesus
Start low and work your way up at least.
by Sabonis4Ever on May 30, 2009 3:59 AM CDT up reply actions
you guys should throw in Oden too
just to make things more even :)
by Basketball Smurf on May 30, 2009 4:17 AM CDT up reply actions
It's not like anything I say is binding
I’m just trying to gauge Bulls’ fans thoughts on what they see as fair value … mostly because almost all people overvalue their own players. What KP and Paxson (or whomever is in charge) could agree to remains to be seen — or not.
I guess that came off harsh
Spending time here I kind of knew Rudy’s appeal to Bulls’ fans. Got to start with Outlaw and Sergio, then work your way up.
by Sabonis4Ever on May 30, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
My sarcasm metere is going off now...lol.
In a New York minute the Bulls would do this deal.
Couldn’t happen anyway though because I don’t think Portland would be sending enough salary back to Chicago. May as well add Brandon Roy or Greg Oden to the deal and make the salaries work :)
No way Portland makes a deal like this though. I see there is a rumor that Portland is trying to get Chris Paul.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 29, 2009 6:49 PM CDT reply actions
You don't have to match salaries when you are under the cap
If the trade happened after July 1st, then we eat the balance of his contract
Portland could trade Outlaw and Blake now for Hinrich straight up
Perfectly legal, and the Bulls get the cap room to re-sign Gordon.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
But the Bulls don't want Travis Outlaw on their team.
Presumably. This is a guy who needs the ball in his hands, plays no defense, and has questionable character. Does that sound like a guy Gar Paxdorf wants in return for their Golden Boy, Captain Kirk? I think not. Plus, Outlaw’s really not all that good anyways. We can get a better player for Kirk. Like Rudy. But apparently he’s untradeable?
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
Questionable character? Never heard that about Outlaw. Care to explain?
Outlaw is a cheap for what he does, and if there is no good trade for him can likely be re-signed at a very good price for a sixth man. His defense regularly isn’t good, that’s right, but he doesn’t disappear late in games and shoots very good from three and can create his own shots in field goal range.
I thought he was known as a cocky ballhog?
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
He's not cocky
He’s just a volume shooter. Think Nocioni without the fist pumps, and more athleticism.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on May 30, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions
He's maybe one of the only truly ego-less players in the league
He doesn’t care if he starts or comes off the bench, he comes in and guns because that’s his role as the first or second guy off the bench.
Travis is undoubtedly one of the ‘good guys’ and despite his flaws and some of the mistakes he makes I can never quite bring myself to hate the guy.
Well that's good to hear. Clearly I was thinking of someone else.
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
you're too greedy
kirk for rudy, especially considering the contract differences, is highway robbery. At least Outlaw+Blake is a fair deal for Chicago, especially considering that Kirk is highly overpaid, and his contract is an albatross on your offseason plans.
"B-Roy is the best shooting guard I have played against"
-Ron Artest
If Artest can say it, so can I. Broy>Kobe.
by premthegrem on May 30, 2009 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions
"kirk for rudy is highway robbery"
…and I’m the greedy one? Really?
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
Kirk is only overpaid
if he’s not your starting point guard.
Him and his shrinking contract are valued correctly if you play him 35 minutes a game.
I figured that one would rile you guys up ;-)
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
You want a PF? You want a short term defensive-minded option at SG off the bench? You want a lottery draft pick this year?
If you were Bulls GM, would you give up Hinrich/TyThomas/#16 to the Bobcats for Diaw/Bell/#12? We might have to make picks on behalf of each other, because the Bobcats agreed last year to trade a conditional first rounder, but I’m not sure about that.
I’m not saying I’d jump all over it, as a Bobcats fan, but I’d strongly consider it.
by David A. Arnott on May 29, 2009 7:16 PM CDT reply actions
Why would you want Kirk when you already have Felton and Augustin?
Serious question…I’m curious.
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
Felton’s probably going to be let go. He’s been supplanted by Augustin, and we’re better off letting Dontell Jefferson or another near-minimum player be the backup/third point. I’d want Hinrich to be the two in the same way Delonte West is the two in Cleveland. Both are basically PG with SG attributes and ability to guard twos, and they’d play alongside PGs who can shoot the lights out and who benefit from playing off the ball at times.
by David A. Arnott on May 30, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Interesting. Thanks for your take.
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
And...
in this draft, especially…I think you guys would be getting the better deal here. Diaw is a solid player, but he’s pretty much hit his ceiling. Tyrus is already a very good help defender and one of the best shotblockers in the league, with seemingly unlimited untapped potential. Hinrich is about 5x more valuable than Bell at this point, considering Bell is probably nearing retirement in the next couple of years.
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
If I were to pitch this trade in full to the Bulls, I’d try to emphasize that Thomas’s skills are kind of redundant next to Noah, whereas Diaw next to Miller is not all as redundant. Adding Diaw means getting someone with Brad Miller’s skill set on the floor at all times as the PF next to Noah, but able to guard the same guys Thomas did, better on-ball, but not as well helping. If the goal is to let Rose initiate the offense, then Diaw is another guy who can step out and shoot, but he’s also a guy who can take the ball and pass to a moving Rose or Salmons or Deng. Bell’s on-court value is that he’s a competent defender, but his primary value lies in his expiring contract. Combine his 5.25 mil with Tim Thomas and Miller for the expiring deals.
It’s a bet that transferring Hinrich’s money into Diaw (exact same contract) will sew up the big men for the foreseeable future, since Diaw is who he is and Thomas is still in flux. The Bobcats are in more of a position to bet on Thomas, and Hinrich would sew up the backcourt for the foreseeable future.
by David A. Arnott on May 30, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
That's all well and good, but Tyrus is already better than Boris today.
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton
by fundamentallysound on May 30, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Diaw
is a guy i advocated getting back 2+ years ago for Nocioni, when both started falling out of favor with their respective teams’ fans, back before they could be legally traded (byc) even. So i think Boris could give the Bulls (or any team) quite a lot. But Bell doesn’t fit here, as he’s nearly finished and often hurt. Not when the team’s gonna be centered around Rose. Plus, Tyrus should still surpass Boris Diaw. I’m convinced it can happen for him with the right coaching (D’Antoni). Do you really think he and Larry Brown would be good together? Sorry for the long answer.
How about a Ben Gordon sign and trade?
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
Tyrus Thomas said he liked the structured discipline of Skiles.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Not interested in Gordon. Two short guards is infuriating to watch, and Gordon would be a Jason Richardson redux, without being able to swing to the three if necessary. For the money, I’d rather have Hinrich.
As I put it above, the attraction for the Bulls should be that Diaw is better than Thomas right now, and as a team with a superstar PG, they should be looking to give him present day talent before they have to pay him. Rose, Deng, and Noah are the givens moving forward. Add Diaw, and you’re okay with letting Gordon go now, you’re okay with letting Miller, Salmons, and Bell go after this season, because it’s still a playoff team in 2009-10, but you can sign a superstar to play with Rose, Deng, Diaw, and Noah in 2010-11 and beyond, becoming a Finals contender with a Rose/Superstar core and that supporting cast.
by David A. Arnott on May 30, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Except Diaw is not better than Thomas right now.
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton
by fundamentallysound on May 30, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
always interesting to get some outsider perspective around here
the bg question was a loaded one, since it’s my theory that not many teams really want him, and certainly not as a starting 2. i’s bein’ facetious.
(also, both kirk and ben are 6-3, don’t you know, lol!)
i fully agree that the list of bulls players any imaginary f.a. would want to team with goes: rose…noah…hinrich…deng… …and probably tyrus. diaw would certainly be high on that list.
why are you so happy to lose boris, he’s worth his money, no? especially since he hits the three now. as a suns fan, i can tell you he’s missed, although he seems to need to be on a team that needs his scoring.
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
And except
That Gordon is a better player and will forever be cheaper than Jason Richardson….one who can actually shoot too.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
Chicago...
The final frontier……
"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta
by The Red Menace on May 29, 2009 8:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Leave it to Hinrich to unite all of SB Nation in harmony
Could Ben Gordon get these kind of page views? I think not.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on May 29, 2009 9:35 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Haha
DATS RIGHT!!! says this Hinrich Fan….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on May 30, 2009 12:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Dammitt Ozzie....
I’m a shooting guard not a miracle worker !!!!!
"You never got me down, Ray. Ya hear me? Never got me down."
-Jake Lamotta
by The Red Menace on May 30, 2009 12:15 AM CDT reply actions
While we're throwing out trade proposals
Would you do Hinrich + 16 for 5 + Mike James + DeShawn Stevenson?
What can the Wiz offer you that is both enticing and realistic?
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I don't mind Hinrich for Minnesota's #6 pick...
…so I don’t like the idea of giving up the #16 for the honor of having Mike James and DeShawn Stevenson.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
yep
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
Nick Young instead of DeShawn?
James is cap relief.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
You really want to give up Nick Young already?
Seems like a promising talent.
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
SI.COM
Has a rumor that the Wizards and Suns are talking Jamison + Mike James’s expiring deal + #5 for Amare Stoudemire…..
I think that’s a better deal for both clubs, Phx saves money and gets a good, but old, underrated, but little D PF in the process and of course the Wizards win big time with STAT.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.














