RumorPress: Bulls possibly interested in Shaq
The big motivation being moving Deng's contract, apparently.
If not Shaq (of course not Shaq, RumorPress is stretching its cred with this one), then more speculation of Kaman or Camby in a Hinrich deal.
All these ideas stink, by the way.
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your friendly BullsBlogger
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Hell no. He destroys teams that he plays with, altough it makes me wonder if he can
make D. Rose be like Penny, Kobe, and Dwayne. But, nah, he is way too old to make any other player better.
Chicago: Where Derrick Rose happens
Only if prior to this post
there was an article on a the creation of a working time machine.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
I don't like it, but...
this would be all we would need to resign Gordon and stay under the LT. Regardless, historically that website is full of crap. Sam gets more trades right.
I hope that rumor is true
I kinda like it because it frees up money. I do think there is truth to the Bulls trying to trade Deng. That was a horrible contrct and I think the Bulls would be smart to deal him and keep Kirk and Ben
Meh
I think the Bulls could do way better. Shaq is not exactly a pick and roll kind of player and he would slow down the Bulls tempo considerably. Let’s just hope this is a sign they are trying to move Deng for something good (just not Shaq).
Rumor Press has Cred???
This is the same website that said the Bulls were pursuing Othella Harrington last summer and looking to trade for Al Harrington during camp…then broke the news that Hughes to Jersey was imminent.
Without a link to real source, this is just fun to speculate…like what if the Bulls could move Deng’s contract for an expiring deal? That would be neat…
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
I don't think it's neat at all
Rumor Press has as much cred as you want to give it. I don’t doubt that Pax was once sending Othella Harrington love letters, even if they wound up not signing him.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions
That's true about most rumormongers.
At least it prompts a lively debate in the offseason.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on May 27, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions
I'll give rumorpress this
it rarely updates, so that means every new ‘rumor’ has a little more sizzle.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Welcome back
unless you’re not back…in which case screw you for being able to vacation for multiple weeks during this awesome recession
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on May 27, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions
At this point I would trade Luol for Kareem Abdul Jabbar
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
Camby
…What a great addition Camby would be! We could put him out there with Noah and Tyrus and nobody would score! Yeah, I’m talking about the Bulls’ defense. Hmmm, the offense? Uhhh let Derrick shoot?
Yes, Camby would be a terrible, terrible idea.
Camby's a completely overrated defender
The Denver GM deserves that award for getting a team to take him off his hands and still have an amazing frontcourt. This is just a roundabout way of praising Nene, of course.
What Camby does specialize in on that end overlaps what Tyrus and Noah already do.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
Camby can swat shots and grab rebounds, but he’s proven with Kaman and Randolph that he can’t work well with other bigs in terms of D (not to mention he’s slow on offense). His expiring contract is vaguely appealing, but I’d rather take a chance on Deng and see if he can return to his 06-07 form (or his January form from this season before he got hurt). A team with Camby doesn’t win, plain and simple.
i'd do it.
They both only play 50 games a year it might be worth a shot. Plus it would be fun watching ticket holders getting squashed in the front rows. Stacy King won’t have the biggest junk in the trunk title though.
The only way the move makes sense is if they need to move Deng to re-sign BG
And even then, it’s a bad basketball trade. What if they do this trade and then fail to re-sign Gordon, though? You’d be looking at a lottery team. After the way the Bulls have jerked him around, you’d have to think he’s gone if any other team offers him close to the same money.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
If they're going to give up on yet one more of their young players
I’d rather see Shaq on the team than the overrated Camby or Kaman. Plus, all the dumb fuck Chicago media folks can all see first-hand how inside scoring doesn’t automatically make you a contender.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
Hinrich for Camby or Kaman doesn't really save any $$ either.
though I suppose they wouldn’t roll out Tyrus/Noah/Camby(Kaman)/Miller, so one of those would be moved.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions
our pal doug
points out the 15% Kaman trade kicker, which really makes a swap for Hinrich make little sense. Unless they just gave up on Tyrus Thomas (possible).
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Until Sam Amick reported that John Salmons had a 15% kicker in his contract
I always wondered what made him come to Sacramento. Now I know.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
maybe if they trade Deng at his lowest value
they’re acknowledging the mistake of signing him, and Gar Foreman should be fired?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 9:47 AM CDT reply actions
That might be true
IF you believe that he is at his lowest value, which is definitely not the case. What if he has another injury next year? No team would go near him. At least at this point someone MIGHT take his contract. His situation could get a lot worse.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on May 27, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions
that's a fair point.
I’m nowhere close to as pessimistic about Deng’s health.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Since he'll most likely be on the team next year, I hope you're right
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on May 27, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Considering he has missed significant games in 3 of 5 seasons.
I am beginning to become a pessimist.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on May 27, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions
me too
“beginning” is my key word, though. There are certain players that it takes overwhelming evidence to convince me to change my mind about them. Don’t know why. Just is.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
FIRE GAR!
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
I think "Fire Gar" were the first words uttered by cave men.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on May 27, 2009 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions
The more I think about it, the more I like this idea
Especially if we are going with the 2010 plan (which this deal would basically signify). If we could somehow sign BG, that would give us the same starting unit that made the mini playoff run this year only with Shaq in the Tyrus role. Plus we could get rid of Deng’s albatross of a contract and have tons of flexibility moving forward. I’m in (although it’ll probably never even come close to happening)
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
side benefit
Shaq gets Vinny fired by December 12th.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 9:51 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Side concern
No one can fire Vinny because they will look like complete tools firing 3 coaches in 3 seasons. Shaq quits on the team by December 12th (actually, probably by Thanksgiving knowing Shaq).
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on May 27, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions
the interim that shall not be named doesn't count
and the Bulls seemingly have no qualms about looking like dumbasses to outsiders. They seem to revel in it, it happens so often.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions
True, Shaq can still quit on the team though
No one knows how to mail it in like the Big Shaqtus.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on May 27, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Wishful Thinking
Vinny would slow down the pace and run every play through Shaq. Rose and Salmons would just be standing around waiting for the ball to come back to them, and Tyrus would get 10 minutes a game. Shaq would love Vinny.
I know I'm WAY in the minority on this one
but I’m going to give Vinny another shot next year. I’m just going to hope against hope that he can improve with a full year under his belt. I don’t want to go into next season all pessimistic. It’s kinda like the whole Rush Limbaugh-Barack Obama controversy on a smaller scale. Why would you want to go into a new season rooting for your coach to fail?
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on May 27, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions
my rooting has nothing to do with Vinny failing
he’ll handle that part fine on his own :)
I do hope he becomes a real coach soon. Perhaps the only thing worse than watching Vinny coach is watching the Bulls do a coaching search.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
lol
and HAH!
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
There would be problems...
But I don’t see how you can’t like the idea.
The Bulls were on the pace to win 50 games after getting Salmons/Miller. You would be adding that team while subtracting nothing (since Deng was out anyway). One of the things we badly missed was someone who could play inside.
You have to worry about Shaq slowing down the team, but he’s a good outlet passer, and so while he won’t be a trailer, it shouldn’t prevent Rose from running the break.
The chemistry with Shaq may be the greatest concern, especially given that VDN was passed over by Phoenix largely due to Shaq’s desire to win now and not have a rookie head coach.
The long term benefit seems abundant. Luol Deng looks awfully exposed to me right now. He’s a SF who can’t create his own shot and doesn’t have three point range or a post game. You’ve got to have an offense that creates him mid range jumpers and driving opportunities, and that’s a lot of work to get all of that in your offense and perhaps not a great fit with Derrick Rose to have someone who can’t space the floor.
Deng needs to improve considerably in some way as well as stay healthy in order for him to be a quality player for us next year. That doesn’t seem overwhelmingly likely. I’d definitely dump his contract to get an expiring, and if that expiring can play as well as Shaq, then I’m game.
by dougthonus on May 27, 2009 10:14 AM CDT reply actions 4 recs
Because Deng is already good?
He was awesome in January before injuries ended his season a month later. We’ll likely lose Gordon either way, why not give Deng a chance to get back to his 18 and 7 ways, then look to trade him if we still want to go that way.
Deng was awesome
while the Bulls were not.
Onward Deng Apologists!
Luol Deng might be good with Rose running the show. I really doubt it in the long run though. I just don’t think Deng’s got the passion to match Rose. Not that any Dukies really have the passion unless we’re talking about tobacco plantations.
On the bright side, I like Luol Deng forced to play better with this roster a lot more than I like the idea of bringing Shaq and his 26 games missed, slowing the pace, and otherwise off the court when he retires career advancement.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on May 27, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
are you ok?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sure...
You also said the Celtics without Garnett would be stronger against the Bulls. I’ll take your insane roster evaluations with a grain of salt from now on.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on May 27, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
We won that series without Garnett didn't we?
No. We lost. We got beat by Glen Davis and Rajon Rondo.
I’ll take one legged Garnett please.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on May 27, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep...
Still insane.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on May 27, 2009 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions
lol wut
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
It's really the only possible response to about 90% of NBAO's posts
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
plus I still see him getting 3-point range.
at least in the corners.
Plus he’s a decent man-defender, a great team defender, a very good rebounder for his position. I think the Bulls are worse with Salmons taking all of Deng’s minutes, and Deng should be a Bull longer than Vinny and his ‘system’.
And the knocks about him not ‘creating his own shot’ are a bit too absolute. He’s not great at it, but it’s not like Deng’s never been isolated and scored before. It’s not his strength, no. Luckily the Bulls will have other guys who can do such things, and Deng to fill in the rest.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Should we be paying a guy 12-14 million
to develop NBA necessities at the SF position?
I got it. Let’s trade Deng to the Kings so his agent can own the contract he negotiated and we can take back a player in Andres Nocioni that will get cheaper and get to go back to playing the role he can play that we need to be played.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on May 27, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
and what role was that, again?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Most hated Bull
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on May 27, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
that's true
it was nice to have that galvanizing force.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
How quickly we forget Wallace and Hughes...
Our memory at BAB is very short indeed.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on May 27, 2009 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions
wallace and hughes
didn’t have the longevity of nocioni though
I knew Hughes was a selfish jackass from the get-go
Nocioni’s defense and rebounding slipped, yet he still had carte blanche to do whatever he wanted because he “played hard.”
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on May 27, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I get that...
My personal hatred of Nocioni never quite reached the same level for Hughes though. At least Nocioni (and Wallace for that matter) did play hard… They just kind of suck… And maybe don’t realize it… Like the old men who still play hard at the YMCA.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on May 27, 2009 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I think I hated the Nocioni defenders more than the actual person
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on May 27, 2009 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed...
There really is no defense for Nocioni, he’ll do just fine in Sac-Town.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on May 27, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions
that's a good way to put it.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I must have missed the point where Wallace played hard.
Nocioni was easy to like as a person even if you absolutely hated his basketball game. If you listen to his interviews immediately following the trade, they make you want to cry. He seemed to really love the franchise in a way most players don’t.
That being said, he still had to go.
That's my issue NBA Observer.
The money he makes….it’s keeping the Bulls from being able to re-sign BG (or so it seems). I’d take Shaq for a season in order to get rid of that Deng contract. I just don’t see him playing up to it…at least not in a Bulls uniform. He’d fit in well in Phoenix. He’d be a #3 or#4 and would be awesome in that spot.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 28, 2009 3:24 AM CDT up reply actions
What was awesom about the 17 and 7 he averaged in january?
40 pts 13 rbs and 8 assists is awesome! Sounds like numbers another SF in the league seems to put up on a regular basis lately. Deng was playing at a level he should have been consistently playing at long ago.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 28, 2009 3:21 AM CDT up reply actions
if we lose Deng we keep Gordon
If we lose Deng and Gordon that’d be really bad.
I also am not so sure Deng was awesome in January, his numbers were better, but he was still not taking over games or anything. The fundamental problem of him not having three point range and not being able to create a shot with his dribble game make him a terrible fit for our offense as it was run last year.
If VDN can revamp the offense to create lots of good movement opportunities and plays for Deng to allow him to be successful then maybe that changes things, but right now Deng’s value is minimized in our offense. That’s ignoring the big purple elephant of his health as well.
There’s just a ton of risks with Deng, and even if he lives up to his upside, he’ll reach his contract value, but he’s not going to exceed it by any notable margin.
That whole group needs to go
Deng, Hinrich, and Gordon. Let’s start fresh. That freshness smells like Roses.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Luol Deng looks awfully exposed to me right now. He’s a SF who can’t create his own shot and doesn’t have three point range or a post game. You’ve got to have an offense that creates him mid range jumpers and driving opportunities, and that’s a lot of work to get all of that in your offense and perhaps not a great fit with Derrick Rose to have someone who can’t space the floor.
Well said.
Plus we get the added bonus of seeing Shaq and Brad miller play together (barring Miller being included in this or another deal). Sounds like fun to me:)
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on May 27, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
I like Luol
I think he’ll do well in our uni or another uni, but I’ve never seen superstar or really true star potential from him. He’s a nice to have 3rd man, a good 3rd man on a team….who if the team was awesome could make an all star game because of the circumstance, but won’t get there on his own (unless he plays like he did in that 6 game stretch in mid Jan…., which he never did before and didn’t replicate afterwards before getting hurt)…..that was the ONLY stretch of his career (Miami series included) where I saw what Deng MIGHT be, but 5 years in, I think 6 games is a stretch. I still see a guy who doens’t want it enough, doesn’t lead, despite being a team captain, doesn’t take the ball and demand the ball to close out games, and well isn’t athletic enough to ever be a top 5 SF….but he’s a good lower 10th SF in the league, and that’s a nice to have.
Deng’s like a Hinrich, a nice to have better than average player for his position, but one who know our offense and team talent doesn’t really need….
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
he's paid as such, too.
(no really, it’s true.)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Agree
Especially on a team with a solid rotation of bigs and smalls….and not a tweening 3/4 forced to play entirely the 4 despite wanting to be a 3 and one who’s far more athletic and has a nice upside still….
You could say the same thing about Kirk, who’s paid a lot less for a lot less years to be a better than average PG….but like Deng, we don’t need him. Salmons fit in better with Rose right off the bat and gulp might just be the better player, which is a real surprise, but true.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
That is third man money in this economy?
And to think people were freaking out at having BG be the third man with that contract Jerry pulled from the table last summer.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
we don't know the 'this economy' figures yet
Corey Maggette is getting $10m-per. Wings get paid.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
If Luol could stay healthy and hit a decent to above average percentage of threes
I would have no beef with him or his contract. He just needs to play, something he really hasn’t been able to do to this point
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on May 27, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd agree w/ that.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I'd agree too
But when has he been a 3 pt shooter?
That’s like saying if Hinrich can come back and be a 75-85% layup shooter, which he aint…except I guess that it’s easier to hit layups than it is 3 pt shots.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
not really
Deng is already a good shooter, it’s increasing range on theoretically open looks. Layups are far dicier. Unless you mean Hinrich’s % on wide open layups, which do seem anecdotaly poor :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I meant that exactly
Hinrich’s percentage on wide open layups has to be 10%….on well covered layups it’s 25% and on others it’s 40%…
Normal PG’s with his skills are probably closing in on 75%…..
I’ve never understood that about his game….I always thought that would be the fixable thing to make him really good, but he still 6 years in was always missing the wide open and the general coverred layups.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
Deng has never been a 3 pt shooter
In fact, he was encouraged to step closer to the basket and work on his 2pt shooting in order to increase his FG%. This was the Skiles group, but I haven’t seen Deng show any improvement in 3pt shooting since the departure of the Skiles group.
I still cringe whenever Deng puts up a three.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on May 27, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Fortunately that is only a few cringes a season.
If he makes a three or four a season he is an amazing 50% 3pt shooter…
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
BG turnover!
I blame Neil and Stacy.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions
It's NBAO.
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
Why would you demand the ball when creating your own shot isn't a strength?
The Bulls would have Gordon, then Rose, then even Tyrus Thomas who could be more willing finishers. Let Deng get his 16 pts and 5 rebounds in the first 3 quarters so the Bulls can have the lead. Then he’ll get his 2 pts, 2 rebounds and play good defense while his teammates do the “closing”.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
What is his strength
Is what you should be asking. He’s good at overall, but has no strength. I think he’s pretty replaceable. A nice to have…
I’d be happy if he went back to his 16-5 in qtrs 1-3 and then 2-2 with good defense in the rest…but we haven’t seen much of that lately have we?
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
He's an excellent team defender.
He’s a good man defender against all but the very best of SF’s. He’s great at running around screens, catching-and-shooting, he’s good at finishing (or was before last year). Those are a few.
But those aren’t flashy like dunks or blocks so maybe they don’t count. But someone will come along and say Tyrus Thomas can only do highlight plays and can’t score.
So you want a scorer who can shoot in bunches? But then someone else will come along and say scoring is overrated.
So you want ball-movement and grittiness? But then Matt comes along and hates Hinrich.
::sigh::
Why can’t BAB just appreciate the good players for what they do well?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on May 27, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Because they are not all on their rookie contracts anymore.
Portland will figure that out too eventually.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
indeed.
I also chuckle whenever Bill Simmons lauds what OKC has done. They currently suck. They have a good foundation, but the slash/burn with some lottery luck is the easy part.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I appreciate Luol for what he does well
But I also know our team has significant needs and holes down low, and fear if BG goes and we do nothing to free up space, we’ll be talking of the need down low while skating into the 6-8th seed through the rest of Deng’s contract.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
Exactly
How much better does Loul make this current team? I just hope we don’t sit on our hands this offseason to wait and see. I would hate to dig ourselves out of a hole again just to make the playoffs as an 7th seed.
On a 50 win pace...
While playing 60% of their games at home…15 of 25 at home for a team that won more than twice as many at home than on the road…Kind of a big deal.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on May 27, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
as you all know
I never thought that team was any good, and I don’t think we should make any plans based of their record.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't know
We gave the Celtics absolute fits and thent hey were beat by the masses most beatable Magic team….and look what Orlando is doing to dismantle the Cavs….
That Celtcis team without KG was again much like the 93-94 Bulls the year we could have gotten back to the finals on Pippen’s back if not for crap officiating.
I think our team is pretty good and has a lot of room for growth….with or without Luol and with or without Kirk HInrich….
I like the fact that a Shaq trade gives us some real inside the post presence to lighten the load on BG and Rose significantly. As inflated as SHaq’s stats are, there’s no denying he still demands a double team in the post.
If we get him I’d like him to play in the 25 MPG range….
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
still wrong about that
That Celtics team smells.
(I wasn’t able to see the Magic-C’s series, I’ll assume the Magic just let it be a series due to their own issues)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Agree to disagree
There is something about any team who has a bunch of guys willing and able to step up at a moment’s notice and that’s what the Celtics had this post season…..that alone makes them tougher than you’d anticipate, plus add in that they still had 2 superstars in Pierce and Ray Allen and a young stud PG and you’re dead wrong, but we’ll disagree.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
The Magic just played Rondo
better than we did.
Reason: Coaching.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on May 27, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Reason
Rose has to develop on his defense of the screen roll…
I see no reason why he can’t and won’t. But while he was near superstar on O, he was avg defensively.
Even in the Orlando and Celtics series there were new guys stepping up every night for the Celtics…that wasn’t as thrilling a series as the Bulls series was, but every Boston win and all but 1 Orlando win were very close. The other 3 Orlando wins featured Orlando hitting all their streaky 3’s at the right moments to pull away….
I expect they’ll do that to Cleveland soon since it hasn’t happened yet……and they’ve had a LOT of looks. I guess Rafer was streaky last game, but they haven’t had 3 of the 4 shooters get streaky at the same time yet this series.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
It's not like many of us didn't predict a strong finish to the season while they were still playing like chumps.
Simply because of the schedule, too. Not the talent. It was foreseen. At home like D2.0 said, but also against baaaad teams.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
and they were talented too
not exactly a good team.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Not only is Shaq a giant question mark in terms of production due to health/personal laziness/general idiocy
We are now relying on John Salmons to continue at his career-best pace after 6 seasons of evidence that indicate he’s a mediocre player at best.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on May 27, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Well
Salmons was pretty awesome the tail half of 2007 too and came into a new system playing just as well as he had in the old system….that says quite a bit.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
Like I said
He’s had 1 good season in a 7 year NBA career. I’m definitely not banking on him averaging 18 points a game shooting lights out from the perimeter like he did last year. If he does, then more power to him and the Bulls will look like geniuses. I just don’t see it happening.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on May 27, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
He had 1.5 very solid seasons
So far and he played and fit in great with a new set of players instantly…..
I don’t think we need him for 18 pts, but 14-16 pts and better than Luol D works fine with me. Plus he can hit the outside shot and most importantly costs what $7M less next year alone for better production….I also think Rose likes him better (I think Rose had a veiled dig at Deng when Rose was hurt with his wrist)…
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
you're not going to get "better than Luol D" from Salmons. Salmons's defense couldn't be more overrated by some.
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton
by fundamentallysound on May 27, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Luol Deng's
Defense couldn’t be more overrated by some more…
Deng’s a good defender, not as good on the man to man as Salmons, and I’ve never seen this great team defense folks discuss.
Deng’s good at a bit of everythign, but not really good at anything. He’s a good player….
But let’s not go crazy..
Having SHAQ fill in a real need of inside scoring in the paint and making due with the wash that is the argument of Deng v Salmons, is enough to skew this argument away from Deng vs Salmons talk anyway.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
Did you graduate from the NBAObservatory?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
What?
I seem to recall pretty often Luol getting lit up…..Paul Pierce was a rare really good exception (and RJ perhaps, but Noc had as much to do with that as Deng and RJ ain’t that great anyway)….
Deng’s a good defender, he’ll never be a great defender….too slow and not quite athletic enough at the 3….
He’s a good defender, can have stretches where he’s really good, but he’s not great anywhere.
And the other point. Yes we need inside scoring.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
let's not go into who lights up Kirk Hinrich then
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions
If Shaq becomes a Bull, he can get hurt in Game 1 of the season next year...
…and the Bulls will have the same team that finished the season strong and took Boston to seven games. The Bulls go with the same team they finished this season with AND they get $20M in cap relief after next season AND they no longer have to worry about Deng’s contract.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 28, 2009 3:30 AM CDT up reply actions
well it's all about that second half
if you’ve given up on Deng, then expirings work, no matter who. They aren’t winning anything significant with Shaq (the defense will somehow be even worse) and it’s for a single season. If anything it’ll just mess with Rose temporarily, coaching upheaval, etc.
Now if you’ll excuse me I’ll do my daily 500 repititions of ’Deng’s fine, Deng’s fine….’
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't think the defense could possibly be worst.
First of all, we sucked phenomenally, just incredible suckage, and you have to figure they’ll at least put in a damn defensive system this year and Derrick will improve. Secondly, Shaq’s still a huge presence in there – he won’t get moved, period.
Adding Shaq to the post-trade Bulls? With the parity in the East right now, and the improvement we could expect from Derrick, Jo and T2, I think they could take it.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
pick-roll defense
Rose doesn’t fight through screen, Shaq stays with his heels on the baseline. Maybe he scowls at a couple teammates after the made basket, that could be fun.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Shaq is a horrible defender at this point in his career
Look at how the Magic exploit Ilgauskus on the pick and roll, that’s what every single team would do to the Bulls, they’d give up 110 points a game.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on May 27, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
(This is a reply to Ozzie and Matt)
The Bulls couldn’t defend the pick and roll last year, either – not because of personell, but because they lacked a defensive system. Watching them, you really had the sense they had no clue what they were doing. And even if that doesn’t change, Shaq can help us. He can rebound defensively – which apparently T2 thinks is beneath him – and we’d be giving up fewer points because of it. He can also defend the post – perkins ain’t backing down shaq as he did Noah.
I don’t mean to be glib – but do you guys really think we could be worse?
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
when shaq plays, Noah or Tyrus don't
I think they’d be worse on defense, because while there was no system at least Thomas and Noah have the instincts. Shaq doesn’t have the ability to defend anymore.
I’d think they’d be an overall better team than the Deng-less Bulls that had a magical run of beating crappy teams, sure.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions
(very good point about TT's defensive rebounding, but that's a larger topic)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
The kind of topic I'd love to see a Scotter post on
For some reason, it seems to be largely ignored. But his d-rebounding down the stretch last year was abysmal, which I don’t quite understand.
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
It may have looked abysmal, but it wasn't pretty solid statistically.
Same thing in the playoffs. He defensive rebounded better than the regular season and in line with his historical averages.
Interesting. It seemed that he was constantly
getting killed by his man on the defensive glass. I’ll have to take a look into the stats.
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
Tyrus plays more at the 3
Brad Miller loses minutes, which I think will definitely help his production anyway.
I know you and I disagree on Tyrus at the 3, but I think that’s where he belongs…mostly a 3 who can play quite a bit of the 4…..
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
Bulls can Tim Thomas Shaq next year..or buy him out. and let him sign with...
… a contender if he wants to. The deal would rid the Bulls of Deng’s contract if that’s what they really want to do.
But if the Bulls keep Shaq then he’d be one hell of a backup for Noah.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 28, 2009 3:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Why would we do that though
Shaq will probably love Chicago and the big city and the fans will probably at least the first 40 games be really pumped to see him (then it depends on how he does)….and we’ll have a buzz around Rose-Shaq….I mean granted Shaq ain’t what he was and us who watch closely know that, but Joe Avg fan still sees the Lakers Shaq and the Magic Shaq and the fun in interviews Shaq this many years on.
Plus Shaq for all his faults (out of shape, lack of hustle down the court, and mostly subpar defense—though if geared in he can defend, at least depending on the referee team around him) but he’s still a complete beast in the paint who will ALWAYS demand a double team around the basket…..
And that opens up the game for easier looks to BG and Salmons…..
And Rose is explosive enough too that having Shaq drive the defenders away from Rose will be a GREAT thing for Rose…
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
Drive the defenders away from Rose...
The only area where Shaq will attract defenders is right under the basket and that will clog things up for Rose should Rose be looking to drive in and do his thing. It could work if you want Rose to be shooting midrange jumpers, but otherwise Shaq isn’t a guy who could pull a crowd away from the basket.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
Rose
Drives to one end of the post, Shaq keeps them on the other end.
If SHaq’s in the middle, it’s an easy lob to him, or if he’s guarded Derrick can take it up.
If both are covered, you’d bet Salmons, Gordon, Hinrich, etc will be WIDE open.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
I wouldn't do it. I just put it out there as an option. Worst case scenario....
…is Shaq heads to Chicago and is no good at all. Worst case scenario is he’s on the roster for one season. That’s really what I wanted to say.
I agree with you about Shaq being better RIGHT NOW than anything we have on the block. The last post player Ben Gordon played with was Emeka Okafor. A guy like Shaq makes the game so much easier for Gordon, Rose and Hinrich. Takes the pressure off them to create everything off the dribble because all of a sudden you have the option to dump the ball into a guy who has to be defended.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 28, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm thinking about Shaq in more off the court terms
Than his actual production, which was fantastic last season. He addresses some major concerns (getting easy points in the paint, defensive rebounding, mojo/swagger) the team has, but he has a terrible history with bad coaches. I don’t want to see my team go through that whole Ben Wallace bullshit again, where the main force in the locker room just poisoned everything, and the team just gives up.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on May 27, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Mmmmm.
Shaq coached by Vinny. Now that’s entertainment.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
I kind of like this deal
I don’t think that Rose and Deng are the best of friends….SHaq can provide some leadership, and while he slows the game down, he’s still a beast of a cover…
THe best thing though is that SHAQ expires off the books for $20M. We’re already playing more slow style with Miller anyway, and having $33M plus coming off is great, plus with Shaq we’ll still compete, especially if we still have Rose, GORDON, Salmons, TYrus. Noah….all those guys are better than Richardson and modern day Grant HIll, and well I expect Rose will be more efficient than last year’s Nash.
As for the Vinny talk, Shaq and Vinny probably know each other (since Vinny was in the back office) so I wouldn’t be entirely certain that Vinny’s gone….
We don’t really need Deng anymore…..and this allows us in one fell swoop to clean up that mess and be a bit more competitive and a matchup issue.
The thing we’ll have to do though is not go all Terry Porter and force feed Shaq to decimate our team…but even if we do, Noah, TYrus, Gordon, Salmons and Rose could be great foils for Shaq, because Noah/Tyrus play a lot of D, Gordon and Salmons are good wing guys that hit shots and drive, and Rose is lightening quick and great at getting into the lane.
I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I’d make the trade for 1 year of Shaq…..this would be a good trade for us.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
Well, it'd only be an additional $11 million, not $20.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I guess I don't count much of Thomas and especially James, since htis $11M can play...
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
I don't count them as players either. But as contracts, the Bulls have $24 million coming already.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I like this idea
1. We move Loul’s contract and get out from under the mistake of his sigining
2. We bring in a true low post scorer, even if it’s for one season. Shaq now is better down low than anything we’ve ever had.
3. You can limit shaq’s minutes, he starts and maybe plays 20 plus minutes. The rest of the time is split with Noah and Miller.
4. We can resign Ben with his move and use our draft picks to plug up our teams other holes. Plus with Shaq’s addition and Ben staying we’re not asking these rookies to play major minutes.
5. Miller, Salmons and Shaq come off the books in 2010!!! We would be a big time player in free agent market.
6. I think the roster below if healthy can make a serious run in the east next year
If we do the trade roster looks like this
PG Derrick Rose
SG Ben Gordon
SF John Salmons
PF Tyrus Thomas
C Shaq
Bench
Kirk
Noah
Miller
Terrance Williams (draft)
Chase Budigner (draft)
Roberson
L. Johnson
I wonder if
We’re better served with salmons as the 6th man and Tyrus at the 3. I definitely think if it’s Shaq, Joakim is the starting PF….he matches up better and is better at defending the paint. Tyrus’s strength is weak side blocks….
Salmons’s firepower off the bench would help.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
I beg to differ on Shaq being a better post option than anything we've EVERY had.
Jordan was a better post player than Shaq is now.
Artis Gilmore was pretty tough in the early 80s.
I’m just giving you shit. I know what you mean and that’s exactly how I feel. A 38 yr. old Shaq will still demand defensive attention. Perhaps even some double teams, and that means less work and more open looks at the basket for our perimeter players. Also, Derrick Rose would have a big man capable of catching the ball and finishing at the basket when he drives and dishes.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 28, 2009 3:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Plus
Thomas and Noah are already well equipped and have played enough with Rose to know when he’s looking to lob…..I think Shaq demanding the post attention, Rose’s athleticism and speed and Noah and Tyrus’s great around the rim hands will really make us have perhaps the most vibrant offense in stretches in the league….presuming Rose improves like the experts and other NBA players presume he can and the BaB faithful hope he can…
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
I'm completely for this, for three reasons.
First, Shaq’s better than you think. Look at the numbers: 22+ PER, 62%TS, higher REB than anyone on the team except Noah. 18 ppg in only 30 mpg. In fact, his (efficent) points per forty would be the highest on the Bulls.
Second, he strengthens our weaknesses. We’re small down low, and an interior with T2, Noah, Brad and Shaq really has everything – size, athleticism, perimeter skills. He gives us defensive rebounding – which we need. Post scoring – ditto. And absolutely nobody will give a team with Shaq any shit. We might like to diminish factors like experience and swagger, but Shaq has them, and we don’t.
Lastly, Deng. I’m just about done with Luol, and I’ve really liked this guy since we drafted him. It’s not just the injuries, nor the fact that he doesn’t always play up to his abilities. Nor even the fact that, going into his fifth or so year in the league, he hasn’t put on any muscle (which I view as pretty telling). This crap about playing over the summer has tipped me over the edge. Yep, it’s his right, and I’m glad he feels strongly about his country, especially in light of his background. But especially coming off an injury, and subpar season, this was an obvious opportunity to show the Bulls, and Bulls fans, his dedication. And he ain’t doing it. So cap space is looking pretty fine.
Here’s my caveat. If they want to do this deal, we need to swap picks. I want us into position to pick Earl Clark, a guy who’s already a better defender, athlete, and three point shooter.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
I have no idea who Earl Clark is
but I assume if Luol Deng was on his college basketball team he’d have done pretty well.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Luol would be a terror in college,
just as he will be a terror this summer. It’s when he’s matched up against elite athletes that he struggles a bit.
But look – Deng’s good. Nobody doubts it. I just don’t feel he fits this team very well. We want to run, and he’s not all that good an athlete. We want to drive and kick with Derrick, and the 3’s not his strong suit. And if you have a backcourt of Gordon/Rose, which I pray we do next year, your small forward better be a lockdown defender. Luol, in his present incarnation, isn’t.
The Bulls need Luol to play as he did early in his career – as a great role player. Then he could be a fit. But if Luol continues to view himself as (a) a one-on-one player or (b) a post player then he’s going to continue to hurt us.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
I should also note that the super-athletic,
three-point shooting, defensively-minded 3 I’m envisioning is Trevor Ariza. We’d need to do your Hinrich for Blake and garbage trade, but here’s what it leaves us:
Rose Blake
Gordon Salmons
Ariza Salmons
Thomas Noah
Shaq Miller
I’ve never actually typed out on of those lineups before. And looking at it, we’d actually have a bit of a cluster#($ at the 4/5. Which would at least be a change.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
Ariza shot 32% from 3 this season
under 30% for his career.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Mmmm. ..
Lemme just find some crazy newfangled statistic to refute that…just one sec now….
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
to be fair
you called Ariza 3-point shooting, not 3-point making.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions
To be fair
I think it’s clear you haven’t watched much of the Lakers in the playoffs. Sure, maybe he’s hitting at a clip higher than ever before, but it is possible to improve your range. Which is all the more reason I’d like to see Deng shoot more threes.
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
Deng is excellent in transition.
He knows when to stop and catch and pull, when to sprint to the hoop, he can finish.
The Bulls offense made him a one-on-one player. It’s Del Negro’s pick-and-pop or one-on-one and nothing else offense. I’d rather keep Deng and get a good coach.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
When he gets out and runs, gets into the passing lanes, and rebounds,
he’s a heck of a player. Trouble is he doesn’t do these things consistently.
Del Negro’s offense is a huge problem for him. Because there isn’t one. Basically, we run a pick and roll – again and again – or we run BG off a few screens. Failing that, we develolve into one-on-one.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
getting rid of Deng to pacify Del Negro
is like getting rid of J.R. Smith to satisfy Skiles X1000.
I agree that Deng should not need ‘an offense’ to produce. It is ultimately hard to reconcile paying $12m to a ‘system’ player. But that’s only to get Deng at his peak, I think he did proved he’s capable even in a non-system, things went downhill after he had a fracture in his leg.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Big Difference
We’ll get a REALLY GOOD PLAYER who TOTALLY FITS A NEED in the meantime, and one who if doesn’t work is off the books and will net us an even better player.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
Salmons is a better cheaper but older version of Loul
Derrick Rose is going to be our star player, hopefully BG will be the guys that we can count on as his side kick. Where does that leave Loul, the 12 mil a year 3rd option? There are way to many what if’s surrounding Loul is year and if we can move him for a big that comes off the books next year …. why not? You act if the rumor is Loul for Chris Dudley!!!
4th option.
Rose/Star/BG/Deng
That is if we can land Bosh or another free agent.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
One good groin version Salmons
produced better than allegedly healthy Deng.
Maybe it’s just heart, or will, or gulp God?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on May 27, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions
We're putting a lot of stock
into one or two months of “non-system” production, but I agree if Luol dedicates himself to running the floor and hitting the open Js that Derrick provides, he can be a terrific role player for us, and a much better fit with Gordon than Salmons could ever be. Deng’s one of the reasons I was so excited about getting Derrick. And frankly, I still can’t believe VDN’s are coach.
It’s a matter of accepting his role, and that shouldn’t be hard for a high character Dookie. Maybe that’s why the England think rankles me more than it should. Here he could be working with our guys, getting his body and game ready for the season, but instead he’s decided to be “the man” on a squad of murderous brits who are going to get smoked no matter how many jab-steps he throws.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
I think Deng's motivations for team GB are more altruistic than that
they’re hosting the games in 2012, and need to qualify to even get in that field. That’s a significant for their program, and a rare window (as, like I said, 2012 they’re hosting the games). I don’t think it’s about any delusions about him being a star and somehow not getting shellacked as a team.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions
(I'd rather he cared ultimately about the Bulls more)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Correct me if I'm wrong but
aren’t they automatically qualified to this tournament as hosts of the Games?
i believe you are correct
i think the host country in Olympics get an automatic bid to play in the Games.
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on May 27, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Someone else can look this up
but I think that the GB team was so incredibly bad that they wouldn’t even get the exception to participate even as the host country. They didn’t have to ‘qualify’ to the level of the other teams qualifying, but they had to reach some level that they hadn’t yet. Or something.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions
wow
i think you’re pushing it there. LOL.
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on May 27, 2009 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions
honest that was what I thought I read
it’s possible that FIBA rules oversee olympic basketball (tying it to the world championships, etc.). Or maybe I was thinking all along about the 2010 World Championships :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions
That is true...
Teams qualify according to the FIBA Zone they are affiliated with.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on May 27, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
matt, i remember reading the same thing as you
at the very least, they had to qualify for division A, which i remember they won in the head to head vs switzerland last year. i think. cause i remember it was either thabo’s team or luol’s team getting promoted to division A.
however, i’m not sure if that was enough to qualify for the olympics. i’m almost positive their participation was NOT a given.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
ok, i get it
i’m a jackass for having doubted our Heavenly Blogger, Matt be thy name.
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on May 27, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions
i didn't say that
i was just agreeing with him.
i found a little blurb from last year saying they weren’t qualified.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
i know you didn't call me a jackass
i was just succumbing to the will of the Almighty Blogger.
don’t take anything i say seriously, unless you think its meant to be serious, then it probably is.
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on May 27, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Again...
That is correct. They do have to in fact field a competetive team and in Fiba Europe that is not an easy task.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA_Europe
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on May 27, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I cannot wait for the 'cool runnings'-esque movie
featuring Luol Deng (and special guest pops mensa-bonsu) leading team GB.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Bonsu dominated us.
Damn we need Shaq!
(I kid.)
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
"Someone else can look this up"?
Who are you? The President? :P
This does sound somewhat plausible. The UK DO suck at basketball….
Much like the US soccer teams of 15 years ago… :P (Men’s teams)
keep in mind, that "system" is only half of the game
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Man Deng is alright and nothing more.
He’s a decent player…that makes FAR more money than he really should. But I can’t hate the player…I gotta hate the game. I can’t be mad at Deng because it was offered to him and he took the money. I’d have taken it too.
Look at it this way. Trevor Ariza has been a god send for the Lakers….at $3M/yr. Now if Ariza made $10M/yr would he still be viewed in the same way? I’m not certain he would. The same thing is happening with Deng. He doesn’t have a $10M/yr game…or even a $10M/yr skill.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 28, 2009 3:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Deng didn't show
That he can play well with Rose, whereas Brad and John stepped right in with complete ease. Hell even Tim Thomas before he got hurt stepped in and was sensational before he landed on his back….
Luol’s not a rookie or really a “young” player anymore. I know he’s young in age, but he’s had playoff experience since his rookie year….
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
Deng showed he isn't a gunner
Which is a good thing because he’s a 3rd option on a good team. I’m still wondering why under Skiles Deng was an improving, efficient offensive player (in addition to being a very good defender and rebounder for his position), but under Vinny there’s no use for him.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on May 27, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Because perhaps
Under Skiles we had a traditional good point, now we have a point who’s best at attacking the rim like a SG, but who’s got past-first tendencies to boot.
Deng’s not playing well with Rose….and plus Deng was always overrated by the fans under Skiles….he’s a good player, but 2 years ago on this site you’d see almost talks of a Deng deity…
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
And now you hear talks of Salmons as a starting SF
All the Bulls did under Skiles was drive and kick. If Deng can increase his averages in such a simplistic system, why can’t he improve in a real offense? Deng felt uncomfortable for a month in the new season, and all of a sudden he’s a jackass. I didn’t see Noah, Tyrus, Gooden, Hughes, or Kirk meshing in spectacular fashion with Rose either.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on May 27, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I never said he's a jackass
Or implied that he’s a bad player, but Salmons and him are a wash, except Salmons costs what $7M less next year and far less in the out years…and Deng’s been since proven much more easily replaceable than we thought….well I figured, but then again I’m not helping my argument by saying that….
I like Luol, a good player….but the argument shouldn’t be can we replace BG (a big time scorer who scores for us and extends the defense and demands double teams—a harder guy to replace as BG’s one major skill is not only the most important, but also a rarity in the league) with Salmons.
It should be can we make due without Joe Good at everything great at nothing who was quickly replaced with Salmons and the team, get this, improved….while paying their new SF a lot less money in the process….
Deng not only struggled for 2 full months this year, but then after 6 games of good to great play struggled again before going down again to injury.
Add to that he also was given more time to struggle with the offense than Salmons was….Salmons fit right in to the team…..and might do better now that I think Vinny developed some plays the last 10 games of the season + playoffs…..to work with.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
and salmons will be gone in a year
or 10 years older than rose and way overpaid if you keep him.
lol wut?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Who cares
Salmons proved or should have proved that avg athletically, good but not great SF’s are a dime a dozen, especially with draft picks (I mean Hell Granger went #18)…..and with a real hole inside.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
Nice.
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
It's the defense
You could use Deng defensively in a system that encouraged work and effort to force your opponent into lower percentage shots. His offensive production looks fantastic at 16-7 when you have the top 5 defense. Drop that goal and his offense has to look incredible to constitute the contract over the long term.
As with Hinrich, I think you have to consider Deng playing better with another club that has parts to slow down the pace to get better offensive possessions to set Deng up defensively in the half court.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on May 27, 2009 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions
gee, i wonder that, too.
/snark
=P
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Do we really have to trade the captains
just to make Derrick the captain?
Bringing Shaq to Chicago is all bad. The entire strategy has to be about Derrick Rose and his development. Clogging the lane with Shaq will hurt us on both ends.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
As I have said before
Shaq??? Shirley, you can’t be serious. Rumor Press? Is that some kind of dry cleaners? How about we trade Deng for Obama, or a Unicorn? Guys would think twice about coming into the paint if they risked getting gored. Why stop there? How about we trade Rose for Le Bron AND Kobe, too. Just slice him on the bias and trade half to LA and half to Cleveland. He would always have to play in profile, though. Which do you think is worth more, his left side or his right.
Its gonna be a long off season, I can see that already.
It's Shaq
Plus a likely free $6.6M deal (Jerome James’s salary aint’ likely to cost the Suns a cent). They can take a step to get younger and have a STAT-Deng duo to build off of….an inside and outside game….with 25 year olds who are good.
I TOTALLY get it from the Suns perspective.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
Did VDN have a voice in the trade bringing Shaq to Phoenix?
Cause that could tell us a lot about this rumor as well.
As for me, I like the trade. I am always willing to give up on a guy if it gives us more flexibility to get better. Especially knowing we can easily fill the role of the player being traded.
I thought the Suns picture went like this
Front Office Vinny wanted the team to play more of the roster, especially the rookies. He thought they would need the depth in the playoffs.
D’Antoni wanted Shaq. The deal itself was sparked between conversations between Mickey Arison and Robert Sarver.
I can’t say I read anything definitively that suggested VDN was opposed to acquiring Shaq, but I have never heard or read that he wanted Shaq in Phoenix.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on May 27, 2009 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Even during that stretch when Deng was doing well, he
disappeared in the fourth quarters. That in itself should tell you that Deng is not a pressure player worthy of 12 mil/year. This guy has had one good year and one decent playoff series and he obviously has pictures of JR somewhere.
don't we want players to dissapear in 4th quarters
as to not offend Rose’s delicate franchise player sensibilities? I forget which way I’m supposed to blow up 4th quarter situations sometimes.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I feel like this
Getting a center that still has at least 50 plus games in him and a contract that goes away next offseason is much better then keeping a guy we can’t depend on to stay healthy or even be the guy we need him to be but is getting big money. So many of you cats are willing to dump Kirk for expiring contracts and get nothing but Steve f*cken Blake in return and there is nothing wrong with that in your eyes.We can get Shaq Who right now is an upgrade to our team and move a guy who wasn’t even a factor for us last year and has the same chance as Shaq if not more of a chance of getting injured again.
Ummm why wouldn’t you do this trade again?
You can't compare Kirk to Deng
kidding, you can compare, that was an inside joke.
But you can compare them and realize that Deng is far better and more important.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I disagree there
I think those two are far more equal. Hinrich’s a better defender and has better vision on the court and will at least attempt to push some offense when BG and Rose are struggling….plus he’ll be at a 25% discount.
Luol is at the same level as Kirk in my book. And now with Salmons fitting in so well with Rose and ahem Tyrus who seems to want to be a SF anyway and was originally prospected as such, I think Dengs just as much a luxury as Kirk, except that he costs a lot more and unlike Kirk doesn’t seem to be fitting as well with Rose.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
I still get to wondering
Can’t we just play Deng and Tyrus as interchangeable 3s and 4s?
Tyrus guards the 3-4 with the more plentiful post game. Deng guards the other player. Tyrus stays near the paint for weak side shot blocking help. Deng avoids the body contact bruiser of an NBA 4.
I’ve enjoyed watching the Nuggets to see how Karl uses Kenyon Martin and Chris Andersen with Chauncey Billups. It sure seems like we should be able to use Tyrus in a similar fashion.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on May 27, 2009 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Martin and Anderson
Still have a higher bball IQ than Tyrus though….but I agree. Trouble is Noah ain’t as strong on O as Nene and Deng ain’t Melo, so by doing what Karl does, we’re still a guard heavy team with jump shooting and screen rolls our only real consistent weapon….we’re good at that, but winners int he NBA are all about versatility….as might be evidenced if the Magic pull this off…with their inside outside game and while they favor the screen roll, they can play traditional too because of an inside presence….one who still isn’t as polished int he paint on O as Shaq…
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
Luol Deng...
has one mediocre year, when he was injured and you all wish to trade him?
Does anyone realize that all Bosh does is shoot jump shots?
Really?
Despite his slender build, Bosh made more than 605 of his shots in the immediate basket area for a second straight season; he also drilled more than 40 percent of his long 2-pointers, a very respectable showing for a big man.
He shoots a lot of jump shots...
you have said nothing otherwise. Though I am glad he also scores around the basket well and shoots 40% from distance; though I knew that already, so I am giving more credit to the internet.
Either way, he shoots a lot of jumpers—about the same amount as Deng for that matter. So why not give Deng an opportunity to play healthy on a good team (remember the last time that happened?) before signing a tier 1.5 guy to a max contract?
And he'll get paid a lot more soon as well.
But yeah, of course he’s better.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on May 27, 2009 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
40% of his shot attempts are jumpers. that doesnt seem too bad.
plus he gets to the line 8 times a game, so he must be going inside quite a bit.
Also
as we like to say around here…with a PG like Rose [insert player] can be superman. Rose will improve Bosh’s game.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
wow, this thread took off in a hurry
after reading through all the comments I have one question for everyone: are we all convinced that Salmons is that good? I’m not, and looking at his numbers, I think he might be a candidate for the Hollinger fluke year rule next year. Very rarely do 29 year olds just figure out how to hit 3’s out of nowhere.
Deng is supposedly going to
figure out how to shoot the 3 without spending time working on it in his off season. Anything is possible!
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
yea i saw that belief mentioned above
im not holding my breath on that happening
he can't work on it?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
interestingly enough
deng is actually a 38% 3 point shooter over his past 2 seasons. of course, it’s a ridiculously small sample size (16 of 42), but perhaps part of his problem is just a lack of confidence? i say if you’re open from 3, fire away lu and see what happens; you don’t have skiles ready to bark at you for shooting an open 3 anymore.
Agreed...
And how often have we seen him shoot the LOOOOOOONG lumper just inside the line? It’s not that much of a stretch for him to take one more step back and hit that shot.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on May 27, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Until he actually does it he shouldn't get credit for it.
Guys who don’t have a lot of arch on their shot don’t easily improve the further out they get. And since this summer is pretty much ruined already don’t be expecting that 3 pt shot to come out of no where for the coming season. Pencil Deng in for 2013 if the Olympics don’t kill him.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
He's also been next to some pretty good 3 pt shooters in BG and Kirk...
I’m not sure it’s his 3 pt shooting is what he needs to work on.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on May 27, 2009 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Considering the fact
Deng is “locked in” and BG isn’t signed and Kirk is included in every trade rumor out there a SF such as Deng has every reason to have some standard SF skills like 3pt shooting.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
That's one way to look at it...
The other might be to work on his slashing more as he now plays with a legit driving PG in Rose and hope we get shooters in any deal for Kirk or roster moves that get rid of BG. We really don’t know yet what this team will need next year.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on May 27, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Lack of confidence = Luol Deng
That’s been my rag on him for 5 years and counting..
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
which is weird...
you would figure a guy who came out after his freshman year would be very confident, to think you can excel at the next level at 19. a good contrast would be Dequan Cook with Miami. he came out after his freshman year as a BENCH player at OSU. and in only year 2, already playing heavy minutes and a 3pt Champ. i’ve talked with me friends about this. Cook is one confident cat. and shoots like it too.
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on May 27, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
You know who else is confident...
Larry Hughes. I’ll take Deng please.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on May 27, 2009 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah, but...
Hughes’ confidence is misplaced.
though his confidence did win the Bulls a game this year. LOL.
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on May 27, 2009 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Nobody's
Saying Hughes vs Deng. All I am personally saying is try to trade Deng for a need because he still has the value to do so and we can manage enough without him while getting better by addressing 2 of our needs (inside scoring and future cap flexibility in the best free agent year in NBA history).
I won’t be happy to see Luol go….but as a guy wanting the team to get better, I think this is a good option.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
The point was really...
That confidence is sometimes overrated.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on May 27, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah, but i'm not overrating confidence
by no means am i suggesting confidence makes the player. but confidence can be the impetus for a young player to take the next step. my point with Cook was that a college bench player freshman felt the confidence to go to the next level and make it there. i’m sure Lu knows the potential for him is there, and getting the contract should instill that confidence in him; y’know, hey, org gave me money, they must believe in me kinda thing. but he might be lacking confidence to take that next step, like a previous poster suggested
Lack of confidence = Luol Deng
That’s been my rag on him for 5 years and counting..
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on May 27, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions
the dog!
woof! woof!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't get this comment btw
I know you love all things Deng, hate all things Hinrich and have learned to appreciate all things Gordon….but face it, we aren’t going to get enough to deal HInrich, we’re running the risk of losing BG or paying too much to keep BG next to Luol and all that cap room is going to make us STILL not address the Bulls’s biggest issue…post scoring.
This is a mini experiment that doesn’t hurt us short term and helps us long term.
I don’t care if Salmons opts out next year, we’ll have cap room to suffice and will fully see what Rose is capable and BG is capabale with less pressure on them.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
I think we can wheedle Portland's #1 and Blake for him.
Then all we gotta do with package our picks and grab Blair. (Never had a 6’7 power forward been more coveted!)
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
I don't know enough about Blair
but it seems to me that the Bulls are missing out on the undersized (I mean really undersized, not the refrain that somehow Tyrus Thomas is undersized when he’s not) 4 who can rebound like an animal. The Milsap, Landry, Bass, Maxiel type that slips in the draft.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Blair is actually pretty similar to the players,
except that he’s a better rebounder than all of them and doesn’t possess the jumper of Bass or Landry. And speaking of which: if we can’t get Dejuan, Bass would be a pretty good fit for us if Dallas can’t pony up. He’s the kind of banger we lack.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
...that guy is Blair. Go check out his rebounding #s. He's a monster on the glass.
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
Well a 6 ft 6
inch Barkley was awesome….at PF….but yeah I don’t know if Blake and the #24 is good enough for Kirk….unless they are that sold on Blair….because otherwise we’ll be likely saddled with 2 eh picks of the 3 late first rounders that’ll be tough to deal….
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
It's a risk, yes, especially with word that Toronto
really likes Blair. Outside of him, I really do dislike this draft in terms of what could help us, since the only position of depth is point guard.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
inside joke about Deng's lack of fire.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, I'm sure he knows what it's in reference to. He reads every word.
I’m sure he just doesn’t get why it applies to his comment.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
No Tyger
Believe me I have no idea…and am annoyed that you stir up this shit.
Totally uncalled for.
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
Cool.
Your insistence on never being wrong is totally uncalled for. But it’s cool.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
What are you talking about
I don’t insist on never being wrong….
I do insist that your an ass who goes out of his way to piss me off.
I never say anyone else is wrong, I state my thoughts or views, and if you disagree, so be it. If I disagree I state it.
If you disagree you restate what the BaB masses state…
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
Maybe after 2012
And prior to the summer basketball commitments he had a stunning summer working on his post moves. Which went incredibly well for anyone guarding him and not so well for anyone else.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
THAT
is what I want him doing this summer. At the Berto center shooting 3 after damn 3 from the fricking corner in which he will be recieving Derrick’s passes. Why?
Because I’m a selfish bastard of a fan that doesn’t care England saved his family from penurious exile in Egypt.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
Just when is Deng going to repay Egypt?
He moved to the States when he was 14. He owes us at least a little something-something too. And his wiki says something about Russia? He has enough connections to be a Chicago politician.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
completely agree.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm convinced
That he is the stop gap, right now we now these things about our team. Derrick Rose is going to be a star, BG if resigned will thrive with DRose driving and kicking, Noah is going to be double double guy in a few years. Every one else has question marks around them and I wouldn’t consider them in our long term plans. I expect Salmons to play is a$$ of next year so he can get big bucks from a team looking for his services in 2010 when he can opt out. Loul is the big question mark we just don’t know and I wouldn’t want to wait to find out what happens when we’re on the hook for 12 mil.
One more thing
I’ve been looking around for a quote, and can’t find it, but I could’ve sworn I remember hearing Shaq say he won’t ever play in a cold weather city.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
Shaq says a lot of things.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Remember the one about winning a title in Phoenix?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
"the thigh bone is not connected to the free throw bone"
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on May 27, 2009 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions
OT - Tyrus is singing the seventh inning stretch today at wrigley
for anyone that’s interested. The game is on right now on WGN (not sure if it’s being aired nationally). Word is that Vinny will be standing over his shoulder the whole time and if he screws up any of the words he’ll immediately be pulled and Brad Miller will finish the rest of the song.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on May 27, 2009 2:15 PM CDT reply actions 6 recs
i hear skiles
is ready to scold him for not sprinting to the mic
by Calogero on May 27, 2009 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
haha
very well done.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on May 27, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions
someone posted nearly this exact same quote in BDL's live chat today
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton
by fundamentallysound on May 27, 2009 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions
DO IT!!!!!
i’d take Shaq for a year if it means better salary situation at the end of that year. i’ve lost faith in Deng. i don’t even use him in NBA 2K9 anymore. totally worthless.
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on May 27, 2009 2:44 PM CDT reply actions
Well...
As long as you don’t use him in a video game I guess we don’t need him anymore. Makes perfect sense.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on May 27, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
see, this is what i'm saying!
if the Bulls played like i use them in 2K9, they’d still be alive right now.
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on May 27, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
y'know...
video game Vinny doesn’t listen to me, so i’m sure real Vinny won’t either.
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on May 27, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Can we please disallow any posts regarding NBA video games? Blech.
"Vinny continues to act like a crazed arsonist pouring gasoline on our season while running around carrying a torch yelling 'I’m in charge. Don’t any of you foolish knaves try to second guess me. I know gasoline is a liquid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t flammable and the odor gives me a natural high.'" - Tyrusmancrush
its just a joke, man
slow the chicken roll. just trying to keep it light during this down time. no one here is really forming opinions based on a video game… i hope.
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on May 27, 2009 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah I laughed.
Especially at the next comments….
Stupid but so true….
I loved that I think I traded Hughes for Durant and a player….in NBA Live09….
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
N+O= NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
If we trade Deng, it better be for Bosh… I’m starting to doubt if the Bulls could get something in 2010. So, trade for Bosh now and then think about 2010. I read in “poopsworld” that the Raptors are trying to draft a big guy. Maybe it means something
Why would Colangelo do that though
I think maybe if he wants to lose his job he would….
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
What?
Trade for Deng, Tyrus and maybe other players and picks? Do you think it’s a bad offer to them? They could loose Bosh for nothing…
If you’re talking about drafting a big guy, apparently they want a guy with good rebounding stats… like DeJuan Blair
Sure add Tyrus maybe. Wasn't thinking that far (long day today)
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
I would love to get Bosh for Deng
But I doubt that happens unless Bosh demands out of Toronto. Then would come the process of trying to get the best deal of Bosh and mabye someone else makes a better pitch. I think if we do get Bosh it would be in the summer of 2010 with him inking a deal.
I'm all for anything that gets VDN fired sooner than later
but Shaq? Is this just another publicity stunt designed to sell seats? Because that’s pretty much what Shaq’s talents are reduced to at this point. I know he had a mini-resurgence last season but he’s way overpaid, and to give up on Lu now would not be smart. PHX has always coveted Lu so why not get Amare if we’re going to get Shaq and give up our $72M man?
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ort7k9
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
I would love to get Loul for Amare
But if we can’t Shaq would be nice just for one season and it gets us just room to resign BG. Loul is the most overrated 72 million dollar man.
A variation:
I don’t see this trade happening, but I could see a trade for Shaq. As Yao and others have said, it makes no sense to trade Deng when his value is low, and he’s a much better compliment to Gordon than the one-on-one stylings of John Salmons. For those reasons, I’d like to keep him, but I’d still like to add Shaq’s size, interior scoring, defensive rebounding and all around crankiness.
could see the same trade, but with Hinrich instead of Deng.
Phoenix could play super fast with a back court of Nash, kirk, and JRich at the wing. Further, they get insurance if Nash leaves…and that looks more and more likely. Then all we need to do is pick up one of those speedy, small point guards (with the #16) to pick up 10 mpg at the point. An added bonus: this draft is weak just about everywhere except point.
IMO, this team could win the East:
Rose Flynn/Maynor/Lawson/Teague
Gordon Salmons
Deng Salmons
Tyrus Noah
Shaq Miller
And then, when 2010 rolls around, we’ve got Miller, Shaq, and (likely) Salmons expiring. We’d be a premiere market, a contender, and have enough cash (or trade pieces, if that’s in the card) to swing some deals.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
Deng's value is low?
I thought we had people here using charts and stuff to tell us how well Deng actually did this last year? I am sure Phoenix is salivating over Deng’s +/- right now.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
Phoenix liked him in the draft
and Vinny liked Tyrus and Sefolosha so much as an asst. GM that both will be traded in a year.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess this would be a good test for majoyenrac's theory
that Hinrich has as much value as Deng. I’d think Phoenix would lol at such a swap in trade talks.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I just think the Suns are going to realize, really soon,
how screwed they are. They’re not a playoff team, Nash is going to move on, Shaq’s old, Amare’s a free agent. They’ve just saddled themselves with J. Richardson for the next half decade. Their window isn’t just shutting. It’s like those old cartoons where the guy shuts the door to his car, and the entire car falls apart.
I think Phoenix would prefer Deng. They should. But they won’t get him. Or shouldn’t.
Hinrich’s probably the best they’re gonna get, and he could help them long and short-term.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on May 27, 2009 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
but if the window is shut
it’s better to let Shaq expire than get Hinrich. At least Deng is still young.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions
if
the bulls trade for shaq, they’re going to realize really really soon just how screwed they are!
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
In 2010
when he comes off the books? I’d rather Shaq ride off into the sunset and play sheriff then for us to have to pay Captain Kirk 10 million a year for 10 minutes of back up point guard play.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
you're delusional
he rides off into the sunset after having destroyed the team…
of course, it won’t really qualify as such, ‘cause the bulls aren’t the 55-62 win team the suns were. small consolation: bulls back in the lottery. and they’ll still be young, so when i say “destroy”, it’d only be temporary. hey, sounds like a couple years of more fun!
this is an absurdity on such a colossal level. to say it doesn’t deserve discussing is a tremendous understatement.
there is much to like about shaquille o’neal, much entertainment to be had. none of it has to do with winning basketball games anymore for a young, running team.
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
Whoa there.
It’s one year. And adding a player who actually provides much of what we lack (defensive rebounding, interior scoring, strength, championship experience), while retaining our nucleus and freeing up cap space, hardly qualifies as wrecking the team. But just so I understand you properly: you are suggesting that a team with Derrick Rose, Ben Gordon, Luol Deng, Tyrus Thomas and Shaq…with John Salmon, Noah and Brad Miller off the bench…will not make the playoffs in the Eastern conference.
Delusional, huh.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
You have to admit
that Shaq is A BIG DISTRACTION who would be going to a team that is due for a momentum building calm year – not another crazy year as the last two have been. Rose will have to temporarily get used to dealing with Shaq for a year as well. I am not sure what the point would be for Rose to learn the Shaq offense but he would have to with Shaq on the team.
The Bulls will forever be on the list of teams at the tail end of Shaq’s swan song into retirement. Which is not the good end to be on IMO. I’d rather avoid that wiki entry as well as all the Shaq/Bulls tie in merchandise. Just thinking about it makes my head hurt.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
I guess I've missed the boat on this, then.
I never thought of Shaq as a cancer/distraction to this extent.
The wiki entries don’t bother me so much. Nor the idea that a lame marketeer will claim we’re Diesel rather than Derrick powered. It’s all the memories of Kendrik Perkins backing down Noah, and the thought of our power forward who stopped rebounding after his rookie season. Those bother me.
But, yep, the idea of a “calm, momentum building season” is pretty nice. I just had no idea he was such an issue in the locker room. Was he really that bad in Miami and Phoenix?
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
He would totally change our style of play
unless we just ignore him and I doubt we could. Shaq isn’t a bad guy, but he would be a big change for us. And a temporary change since everyone here wants him as an expiring contract. It would be a year long experiment with no future. Hey, maybe Shaq will slow the game down enough that Deng can catch up. There is always that I suppose.
We have a pretty good example as to how injecting some Shaq into a team used to a fast pace goes in the experiment at Pheonix. They were bipolar all year. We have a young PG to think of too as well as Noah and a young coach who loves his toys. Rose, Noah, and Tyrus have yet to see a sane year of basketball with the Bulls yet. I am willing to disrupt things for a guy like Bosh who we could build with, but Shaq is someone temporary who would still require the attention that a star like Bosh would.
Shaq isn’t a long-term solution to our Perkins-type problem. Even if he adds some brute force for a season it would be at the expense of Noah’s time and not part of our 3-5 year plan. I dunno. Thinking we might hear Funk talk about Shaq for a season…watching Shaq fts for a season… I don’t want any part of that personally.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
woah!
crannie got my back!
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
Plus, as you mention:
the hilarity factor. Shaq vs. Brad Pt. Deux. Vinny trying to coach Shaq. I’m in this for the kicks, after all.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
Phoenix may very well be laughing at Deng's $62M left contract for all you know
Hinrich at 3 yrs and what 26M, that’s not awful, it would yield another asset or two to make the trade happen…..and they’d have assets, cap room $4.5M savings (netting the Jerome James salary against the Deng dollars at least presuming we make those dollars the same that is)….not a bad trade for teh Nash successor down there….
I like Deng, but his contract his big for his injury prone ways….and at least on our team he falls in the “luxury” nice to have but expensive…less so on other teams. If Tyrus could be a sure deal, I’d much rather us stay pat….but I don’t want to see a Tyrus trade, or BG leave, and Deng’s the easiest to swap for a need, future flexibility and makes us a more complete team…
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
Not that my opinion counts for anything short of jack diddly poo round dez heah partz
But, umm, Shaq in Chicago? What happens with Noah, Thomas and Miller? I get how it COULD work, but wasn’t that the same type of thing that was said about Phoenix?
I don’t get it. Unless Brad Miller is involved, or Tyrus Thomas, it makes little sense to me. Why keep all 4 of those guys around?
I suppose i’m just confused here. In fact, real confused.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
We just like to talk.
Our team got knocked out of the playoffs, and we’re fiending for basketball. Or avoiding our studies.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
Yeah MPG
So does everybody else. You can still consider me confused.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
yes, let’s all sign off on making a f_#king terrible basketball trade! because it means we can re-sign “basketball god” ben gordon!
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
Yeah
Shaq’s won 4 titles for nothing…..
A moronic statement. We have NO inside game. It’s not like Tyrus, Noah or Brad are Amar’e freaking Stoudemire….this ain’t the Suns team in any stretch of the imagination. Shaq gives us the offensive post player we’ve needed really since Brand left, and this time we’ll have a slew of solid post defenders to play next to him in Noah and Tyrus….not a solid offensive big who can’t play any defense either (Stoudemire)….
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
I'd rather see the Bulls go down this route:
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5089581
I’m all for selling high on Salmons. Getting Shaq as a rental for, essentially, just Salmons isn’t bad value and it frees up the Bulls to swing other deals with guys like Miller or Tyrus, etc. This trade would have the Bulls taking back more salary than they send out so they would definitely need to make other deals to make it all work. It’s also more or less neutral in terms of 2010, with the only real difference being that instead of relying on Salmons to opt out to free up his salary (which seems a pretty safe assumption, but who knows what happens?) Shaq’s salary expires for sure in time for 2010, no conditions.
Despite Scotter’s most recent post, I’m just not sold on Salmons continuing to be good, and I don’t think he helped nearly as much as others think he did. His adjusted plus minus was terrible, and he’s been terrible by that metric every year. He’s a ball stopper and his defense really just isn’t all that good. Teams around the league need scorers though, so I’m sure the Bulls could get something useful for him while his value is at it’s (very likely) highest point. Selling low on Deng is a terrible idea – you buy low, sell high, not the other way around.
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton
by fundamentallysound on May 27, 2009 7:59 PM CDT reply actions
the bulls are a team in the league
don’t they need scoring?
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on May 27, 2009 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions
not when they have Ben Gordon doing the scoring and a (hopefully) healthy Deng and an improved Rose
and not when Salmons stinks on defense and actually hurts the offense despite all those makes on contested jumpers.
"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." --Newton
by fundamentallysound on May 28, 2009 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Sounds like the Bulls way of admitting they signed the wrong guy in Deng.
I’d make the move in a heartbeat. Shaq won’t make the Bulls any worse. Phoenix had 2 prima donnas in Stoudemire and Nash and those guys complained about Shaq slowing down the tempo. Nobody on the Bulls has the stature to complain about Shaq doing anything. If Shaq could average 15 and 10 on the blocks for the Bulls it would be great. What have the Bulls lacked since Elton Brand left town? A low post presence. Shaq would bring that for one season then he’d bring close to $20M in cap relief…and possibly help pave the way for a run at one of the 2010 free agents.
As for Deng, he’d fit in nicely with Phoenix.
by lexdiamonds0730 on May 28, 2009 3:18 AM CDT reply actions
This has to be a pure salary dump
Remember Shaq praised the Pheonix staff for having him fit to play at the level he has been. Without them expect his game to be the same or worse in his last year with Miami.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
But our staff
Has managed to have Wallace break down in 15 months, 24-25 year old Luol break down time and time again…..we have to correct that ship….Shaq will come in fit and ready….
Actually I think Shaq will be more motivated than normal because he wants to play 2 more years after this contract….and Shaq likes to play hard and well in contract years….last year was a strange anomally for him, I guess cuz everyone said he was done and because Porter forcefed him (likely thanks to Kerr)…
I hated the trade to bring Shaq to Phx because they had STAT and had to pay him $50M…..which may be $30M….but still that’s a lot to bring in someone who does what your main man does for more money and less results in his current age and plays no D like STAT.
But we have all defenders in the post who aren’t too adept at scoring….different situation and we’re paying him if we did this $20M as a cost to not only address a need but help us hopefully in 2010 FA…
Oh well, I like it and the longer I think about it, the more I like it…..
Course it’ll just end up being a rumor and we’ll probably watch BG leave for nothing…..
4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.
Yup, they'll have one conversation about it and then move on, with nothing ever materalizing.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
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