Trading Up to 5?

by Bullsfanla on May 20, 2009 6:34 PM CDT

This comes from today's Hollinger's Per Diem post on ESPN.

5. Washington Wizards

Remember a couple of years ago when Washington had the fifth pick and traded it to Dallas for Antawn Jamison? Me too. And with 14 players already under contract for next season I have a feeling they might do it again, packaging it with an unwanted contract in order to make a run with their current roster while still getting under the luxury tax.

For instance, the Wizards could trade down with Memphis (No. 27), Oklahoma City (No. 25) or Sacramento (No. 23), throw in $3 million (the maximum allowed) and dump Etan Thomas' $7.3 million on their lap, simultaneously getting Washington back to the tax line while still adding another young player. Alternatively, the Wizards could ask for a role-playing wing with a modest contract, or just structure it as a straight salary dump for a future conditional pick.

A lot of possibilities are on the board here, too many to enumerate. Suffice to say that I'd be stunned if Washington actually uses the pick. The salary commitment is too high once tax concerns are taken into account, and the expected immediate return too low. For a team hoping to bounce back quickly behind a healthy Gilbert Arenas, they're much better off using the pick as a trade asset.

John Hollinger writes for ESPN Insider. To e-mail him, click here.

So let's say that the WIZ are all about moving this pick to dump salary so they can make a run with their current roster. We would be perfect partners for this deal. We can offer multiple draft picks our 16 and 26 plus the wing man Hollinger mentions in John Salmons. Now I know you guys are thinking why would we move up to the 5 spot in this years draft.

Let's say Forman picks up the phone and calls The Raps? He let's them know he's going to get the number 5 pick and would be willing to trade that pick plus Jerome James, Tim Thomas and Tyrus Thomas for Bosh. If the Wiz are willing to give up the five for Salmons and let's say the 26 (we take back Ethon Thomas), we swing the Bosh trade and resign BG. Yes we would be over the tax but I think it would be worth it and Reinsdorf would sign off on it. This would be the team next year, I know the bench is kinda soft fur the starting five would be deadly.

Starting Five

PG D Rose

SG Ben Gordon

SF Loul Deng

PF Chris Bosh

C Joakim Noah

Bench

Kirk Hinrick - if not traded

Eton Thomas

Brad Miller

Terrance Williams at 16 in the draft

Linton Johnson

Anthony Roberson

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Comments

I am sure...

the Raptors could get more than that.

by McCabe on May 20, 2009 7:01 PM CDT reply actions

yea...

its going to take more than the 5th pick in a weaker draft, tyrus thomas, and 2 scrubs for Bosh

by saplaxico on May 20, 2009 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions

But they could get James Hardin!

Eh? Eh?
Harden’s pretty sweet. Or … what’re the first 4 picks, Rubio/Thabeet/Griffen/ .. OK, not Jordan Hill. Why would people pick him. But yeah, it seems like Harden would fall you you by default. Or you can pick … Brandon Jennings? I dunno, he seems … very, very good.

Three things you must know:
-"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
-Pau Gasol: The defense of a seven foot ladder paired with the post presence of Manute Bol.
-Joakim Noah is better than you.

by Prevenge on May 21, 2009 12:31 AM CDT up reply actions

The Raps don't need a PG

by smash! on May 23, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions

Yeah ...

Just saying Jennings is good. Obviously they’d pick Harden though. :P

by Prevenge on May 23, 2009 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions

I don't know

Sure the draft isn’t projected to be the absolute strongest, but Tyrus THomas (who improved leaps and bounds and is still 22), plus a #5 pick, plus 2 expiring deals totaling $13M for the 2010 class, plus it’s likely that one of those deals (the more expensive $6.6M Jerome James deal) is going to insurance and thus it’ll save the Raptors $6.6M in the process…

I think it’s a fair trade. Tyrus THomas still has the potential to be in the Bosh stratosphere, and seems to have the work ethic. He just needs consistentcy and to keep working at it. That kind of athleticism with that kind of raw talent is very rare….add in a high pick, cap clearing and $6.6M discount and there you go, a fair offer.

4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.

by majoyenrac on May 21, 2009 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions

I agree, sort of. Harden + Tyrus Thomas isn't horrible (the expirings don't matter since Bosh is, too)

Calderon
Harden

pick overall (Terrance Williams, DeJuan Blair, Earl Clark???)
Thomas
Bargnani

If Calderon can stay good for another five years, they’ll be competitive. And of course, that team is in the high lottery again next year, maybe nabbing one more good player. Now, Harden + Thomas + Deng is an absolute steal for them.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on May 21, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions

Yeah But Bosh will need to be resigned, and Tyrus has 1 more year

And the $6.6M of savings is KEY especially for a small market or in future trades…..since Jerome James likely ain’t going to cost them anything next year.

I like your Deng addition though, let’s us resign BG too….not sure if you agree with that, but I certainly do. BG-Rose-Bosh and the defense of Noah-and Kirk, and well since you hate him Salmons is tough…

4/30/2009 GAME 6: Joakim Noah is God.

by majoyenrac on May 21, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions

I think it makes sense

Now mind you I posted this because of the Hollinger’s take on the WIZ and the fifth pick. If Washington wants to make a run at the title with it’s core and not use the five pick to make them better in the long then why not trade the pick? They can save $$$ money now, get rid of an unwanted contract and hope everyone stays healthy. They Also would pick up Salmons would could help them nicely and add depth on their team.

For Toronto it’s a great trade you get the five pick, which would a young talented player that you now have locked up for five years in toronto. Then you have their number 9 pick plus a young gifted player in Tyrus Thomas. I hate to see him go but I think after the way he was handled in the playoffs he’s days are numbered with us. The Raps also get Tim Thomas and Jerome’s James expiring deals, they save major money and become a player in 2010. So they get to start from scratch and cater to their fanbase with young fun basketball. Depending how they pick this year and how those picks pan out they could add vet free agents like Joe Johson, Tyson Chandler, Travis Outlaw and others when in 2010.

For us it’s a no brainer we stay strong in a our conference, it’s not going to be easy to get to the playoffs next year with teams like Charlotte improving. Washington, Millwaukee getting healthy and you have dark horses like New jersey and Indiana. Can we make it back with a healthy Deng, Resigned Gordon and two mid to late round draft picks to fill our gaps? I don’t think so, we need to strike now or we could be hoping we hit the ED Davis Lottery Next year?

by Bullsfanla on May 21, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions

We’d have a crummy ass bench.

by C Smoove on May 20, 2009 7:11 PM CDT reply actions

Love the idea

Obviously, both the Wizards and Toronto may not be willing to do the trade, but that could be said about pretty any trade idea. I do think that the Bulls would have to give up the 16 as well for the wiz trade to be possible. Even still, if they gave Toronto #5,26 and next years first as well as Tyrus, Tim and James’s insurance covered contract they may do it. The Raptors would save a bunch of money and get a young prospect in Tyrus plus they would have two top 10 picks this year and a few other late first rounders the next two years all for a guy they may lose next year for nothing. Overall, great idea that is certainly not unfeasible.

by smashbrickley on May 21, 2009 12:07 AM CDT reply actions

Wouldnt Washington want Bosh?

Why wouldnt they package Jamison & the #5 and just do the deal directly.

by chlutz508 on May 21, 2009 7:49 AM CDT reply actions

Although I have to say, if we were looking at Harden

right there with the five…it would open up a sign/trade situation with BG. A Harden/Rose backcourt could be the leagues best for years to come. He’s a perfect fit in the sense that he’s exteremely efficent and balanced – a role-player supreme to put next to Derrick. But for exactly those reasons, i see him as a perfect fit with Gilbert Arenas. :(

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on May 21, 2009 8:40 AM CDT reply actions

Harden creates off the dribble

If you liked what you saw from John Salmons creating off the dribble, Harden does the same thing only he passes the ball more. The hitch is you have to structure the offense around Harden’s capabilities. Our problem — which is really a blessing — we are going to do that only with Derrick Rose.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on May 21, 2009 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions

I agree to an extent.

However, Harden is the type of player that drives a lot now and struggles with his shot (although, this is off the dribble. his feet-set, catch-and-shoot was excellent). As Scotter (and others) has pointed out, those types of players usually have more success at rounding out their games. I could definitely see Harden being able to become a lower-usage player while maintaining his very high efficiency.

Of course, in VDN’s my-turn, your-turn offense, Harden would be able to thrive right away.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on May 21, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions

why do you have to structure an offense around Harden?

They did that at ASU because he was by far their best player. I mean, it wasn’t really close. So of course they ran every play for him, he was the Lebron to their 04/05 Cavs. That doesn’t mean he can’t accept having a lesser role for the Bulls. I think given that he was triple teamed for much of the 2nd half of the season, his high efficiency with high usage should be seen as a bonus.

by Basketball Smurf on May 21, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions

smh @ Harden

not a fan…would prefer pendergraph truthfully

"Talent wins games, but team work and intelligence wins championships." 23

by Belize on May 21, 2009 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions

This bench is a joke

We go nowhere fast with this bench. We make the playoffs and get bounced in a hurry.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on May 21, 2009 9:10 AM CDT reply actions

What? It's the same bench they had this year for the playoffs: Hinrich and Miller.

Who else played? Tim Thomas? Lindsey Hunter?

WTF are you talking about?

The difference is that a healthy Deng >>> Salmons and Bosh >>>>>>>> Tyrus Thomas. Of course, the difference is that if Deng gets hurt, THEN the bench is short. But as constructed, it’s virtually the same as this past year, except the starting lineup is significantly better. Maybe you observed a different bench in the playoffs than I did.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on May 21, 2009 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions

Hah

I thought the same thing. Assuming a 7 man rotation and health, what’s different about it from this past year? Tyrus is now Bosh, Salmons is now Deng. Everything else is the same, except Aaron Grey is Etan Thomas, and Terrance Williams is around.

by M 80 on May 21, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions

Well, you should get an 8-man rotation for the playoffs

You’re not going to win much with a 7-man rotation, which is what I think NBAO was probably referring to. But, he failed to notice that the same bench just came on the brink of making to the 2nd round and the starters are significantly better.

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on May 21, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions

That's the key

Doesn’t having Chris Bosh mean Brad Miller won’t be playing most of the 4th quarter? Deng’s health is fair to question though, if he went down (or pussed out), it would be tough to overcome.
With Vinny, I could see him going with the 3 guard rotation when resting Deng. I’d feel a lot safer with a veteran backing up the 3 rather than a rookie, but it’s a problem I’d deal with when it arrives.
It’s a fair concern, but the “bounced in a hurry” seemed like an overreaction to me considering what just happened.

by M 80 on May 21, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions

I like any deal that gets us Bosh and keeps BG

and all we lose are draft picks and one starter (and scrubs).

I’m just not so sure how much our trading partner(s) would like the deal, especially when they are in the same conference and are in a “win now” mode… especially if we get considerably better in the deal.

"Remember, I'm Italian".

by BCs71 on May 21, 2009 12:46 PM CDT reply actions

Agreed

Any deal that allows us to keep BG and Noah and acquire Bosh is phenomenal! Noah is a perfect compliment to Bosh and a Rose BG Bosh combination should provide tons of scoring.

While the bench might be problematic, I think signing a MLE free agent and hopefully keeping one of the first rounders could round out a bench just fine. If we struggle without a bench for one year, that stinks, but make a run at some bench players the next year then while everyone else is focused on big names.

by DRose01 on May 22, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions

Meh

I am gonna rain on this love parade of BG and Bosh. Great scoring maybe even a 50 win team, but it just screams no D, and bad playoff team. I am no proponent of BG and I see Bosh as a big man equivalent of him. Give me a team of players like Noah— hard working, hustling, D minded, rebounders, and yes a lil offensively challenged— but I bet they go farther in the playoffs every year and are more fun to root for than a BG-Bosh horse shooting contest.

by Chisportfan on May 22, 2009 12:26 PM CDT reply actions

almost

had it right. but you can’t have a team full of noahs either. that screams “not playoffs”! if you mean houston and their role players, then i couldn’t agree more. but the lengths houston went to to determine just who the best role guys were has been documented. adelman wouldn’t play hayes with noah.

and i’m not saying you would either. i think we’re in agreement that it’s very odd how some b-a-b posters are hellbent on adding more offense to a team that didn’t have a problem there. BG is a nice player. bosh is even nicer, but i’d like to see team usa effort from him. would vinny and the bulls get it?

"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!

by marionette on May 22, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions

Much more on target

Rose + offensively challenged supporting cast=FAIL! Noah is a great compliment to Bosh in that he does play solid d. Put another solid defender in there at the 3, get Rose playin some better defense and we are off to the races. I know BG is not a great defender, neither is Bosh, but when push comes to shove I see both guys as solid athletes that could put more effort in on the defensive end and be at least adequate. Will VDN get this out of them? Hmmmm…all signs point to no.

by DRose01 on May 22, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions

i'll fix it for you

“I know BG is not a ~~great~~ defender”

"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!

by marionette on May 22, 2009 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions