March BOP
by Scotter on Apr 4, 2009 10:30 PM CDT
39 comments
[Note by your friendly BullsBlogger, 04/05/09 5:00 PM CDT: From the fanposts. -ed. ]
Here's Basketball on Paper stats for March. I included Feburary as well for easy comparison.
| Feburary | USG% | TO% | eFG% | TS% | ORtg | DRtg | Poss | OR% | DR% | FTr | AS% | MIN |
| TEAM | 20.0 | 14.6 | 49.9 | 55.2 | 112.5 | 111.7 | 1115.3 | 30.3 | 68.3 | 28.0 | 56.3 | 2905 |
| OPP | 19.9 | 14.8 | 49.0 | 54.0 | 111.7 | 112.5 | 1110.8 | 31.7 | 69.7 | 23.0 | 52.9 | 2905 |
| Rose | 24.2 | 14.3 | 49.4 | 51.7 | 107.2 | 115.8 | 189.2 | 6.2 | 7.0 | 12.9 | 31.7 | 407 |
| Gordon | 25.8 | 12.9 | 52.2 | 58.6 | 115.0 | 114.3 | 209.4 | 3.5 | 9.9 | 29.6 | 13.5 | 422 |
| Deng | 19.2 | 13.1 | 42.5 | 48.6 | 100.2 | 112.0 | 145.5 | 3.8 | 13.9 | 28.4 | 9.8 | 394 |
| Thomas | 22.0 | 17.0 | 49.6 | 56.2 | 109.1 | 106.5 | 164.9 | 9.7 | 19.1 | 39.1 | 7.0 | 391 |
| Noah | 13.6 | 17.1 | 58.5 | 62.6 | 125.0 | 109.6 | 99.2 | 13.4 | 20.5 | 43.1 | 9.2 | 379 |
| Hinrich | 18.3 | 19.0 | 53.3 | 58.1 | 108.8 | 113.2 | 105.5 | 0.4 | 7.6 | 23.1 | 22.4 | 301 |
| Brad Miller | 18.5 | 14.6 | 47.0 | 56.8 | 117.6 | 106.0 | 41.2 | 6.9 | 28.4 | 42.4 | 18.3 | 116 |
| Tim Thomas | 19.5 | 11.8 | 51.9 | 54.2 | 106.9 | 113.0 | 25.5 | 1.7 | 14.5 | 19.2 | 6.9 | 68 |
| Salmons | 17.3 | 11.7 | 61.1 | 68.0 | 133.6 | 114.6 | 51.3 | 3.7 | 12.8 | 44.4 | 13.3 | 154 |
| Nocioni | 18.0 | 7.9 | 59.8 | 62.7 | 125.2 | 111.3 | 37.9 | 4.2 | 14.0 | 22.0 | 3.0 | 110 |
| Sefolosa | 11.9 | 10.6 | 19.4 | 23.3 | 72.7 | 115.8 | 18.8 | 5.6 | 6.7 | 11.1 | 11.4 | 82 |
| Gray | 16.4 | 22.0 | 29.4 | 34.1 | 75.0 | 109.4 | 22.7 | 9.6 | 18.3 | 23.5 | 3.9 | 72 |
| March | USG% | TO% | eFG% | TS% | ORtg | DRtg | Poss | OR% | DR% | FTr | AS% | MIN |
| TEAM | 20.0 | 14.6 | 51.1 | 56.0 | 112.0 | 110.9 | 1519.3 | 27.4 | 71.0 | 24.9 | 51.5 | 3915 |
| OPP | 19.8 | 13.8 | 50.3 | 54.2 | 110.9 | 112.0 | 1500.7 | 29.0 | 72.6 | 19.6 | 50.5 | 3915 |
| Noah | 14.3 | 13.4 | 53.2 | 59.3 | 124.8 | 107.7 | 127.1 | 12.9 | 22.9 | 37.2 | 7.8 | 459 |
| Thomas | 18.8 | 15.8 | 46.3 | 51.8 | 101.9 | 105.8 | 183.1 | 7.2 | 20.5 | 26.9 | 4.2 | 502 |
| Salmons | 19.8 | 13.3 | 56.7 | 62.3 | 117.5 | 112.8 | 233.0 | 1.6 | 11.3 | 29.5 | 6.1 | 606 |
| Gordon | 22.9 | 13.8 | 52.1 | 56.8 | 110.0 | 113.4 | 275.6 | 2.1 | 7.2 | 22.8 | 14.6 | 621 |
| Rose | 22.5 | 14.2 | 47.1 | 51.3 | 104.8 | 114.5 | 253.4 | 3.5 | 11.4 | 17.7 | 24.4 | 581 |
| Miller | 21.8 | 16.9 | 51.1 | 59.7 | 118.2 | 110.5 | 200.7 | 12.0 | 17.7 | 48.9 | 16.3 | 475 |
| Tim Thomas | 18.1 | 12.2 | 49.0 | 48.9 | 99.8 | 113.5 | 49.1 | 5.2 | 14.4 | 4.0 | 8.6 | 140 |
| Hinrich | 18.8 | 16.6 | 54.4 | 55.9 | 106.3 | 109.6 | 162.3 | 1.1 | 11.1 | 10.7 | 19.4 | 444 |
I don't have many comments. Derrick finally posted a decent defensive rebounding month. Noah was consistent once again. Honestly, just looking at how thoroughly average this team was in a month when they should have been improving makes me lose interest.
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With stats like those
Rose didn’t deserve rookie of the month
by YaoPau on Apr 4, 2009 10:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Because people really look at advanced stats when handing out these meaningless awards?
MVP voters don’t even look at that stuff.
Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 5, 2009 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure they don't
That doesn’t change that Rose didn’t play well enough to deserve the award.
by YaoPau on Apr 5, 2009 4:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno about that who else could deserve it?
Is this for March?
Cause Rose averaged 17 points – 6 assits- 5 boards shot 47% from the field while playing 39 minutes.
While Lopez is the closest guy too him. 14 pts 2 assists 7 boards 57% in 33 minutes a game.
Its nots Lopez fault they don’t give him the ball enough but they had a 4 game losing streak and a 5 game losing streak. And his numbers aren’t very impressive there.
Rose on the other hand hasn’t just been producing numbers but wins as well. He may have missed the lay up that Raptor game. But vs the Wiz he got the winning assist…Oklahoma he took over..vs Miami was his best display of court vision this season. He showed up vs Philly-Boston-LA.
But also Rose isn’t a stat guy hes a winner and facilitator.
by Camry on Apr 5, 2009 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lopez is a nice choice
I thought D.J. Augustin had a nice month too. I never bought the “Player A was worse than Player B, but Player A played a lot more so he did better” line of thinking. I agree that if two guys are helping their team the same amount per 100 possessions, and Player A played more possesions than Player B, then Player A made more of an impact.
By the looks of his March numbers, Rose had a negative impact on the Bulls. I’d rather give the award to somebody that’s helping his team, even if he’s had less minutes/touches.
by YaoPau on Apr 5, 2009 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rose has a bigger role at least I think
I usually consider that when the minutes are up.
DJ is a bench player and Lopez played well but if Rose was inconsistent then Lopez sure wasn’t that great either.
Rose has been huge. Lopez made the same point himself that Rose has a bigger load. But for him to also have better numbers than Lopez is big too.
I think whoever voted for him saw their games and made their decision off that.
Cause Rose really hasn’t been killing us here hes a big part of this team. Gordon and them don’t get these easier looks and we likely play a slower pace without him.
I don’t mind who wins it as long as they deserve it and I just find it really hard to see that Lopez or DJ deserved it more than Rose. Lopez in those last few months was and I’m not sure if DJ has ever had that big of consideration out of the 3.
by Camry on Apr 5, 2009 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joakim continues his excellent play.
I agree with YaoPau, Derrick’s numbers look pretty pedestrian, especially for a Rookie of the Month. On the bright side, he increased his FT-r slightly from last month.
Tyrus dropped off a good bit from his February production, and Kirk is still scoring efficiently, but turning it over 16.8% of the time as a guard who uses just 18.8% of possessions just doesn’t cut it. It’s really funny that Ben gets ragged on for his turnovers as much as he does because Kirk turns it over much more frequently, while using fewer possessions than Kirk. It’s strange.
Brad Miller is still awesome – if only Vinny would learn to take him out to close games and leave Jo in, and Salmons is still ridiculously efficient at scoring the ball.
Thanks, as always, Scotter for crunching the numbers.
Fire Vinny.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 4, 2009 11:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
using fewer possessions than Ben.*
Fire Vinny.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 4, 2009 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember distinctly a few times of Hinrich...
…dribbling down the wing, jumping, twisting and throwing the ball directly into opponents’ hands. But if you point that out to a Kirk-slobberer, they’ll call you funny names.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Apr 5, 2009 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All people who like Kirk are raving idiots with no recognition of his weaknesses, or even any actual basketball knowledge.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
by wjb1492 on Apr 5, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least you're honest :)
Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 5, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why does kirk-slobberer = every single fan of Hinrich?
That’s ridiculous, but you can be offended by something that doesn’t apply to you, if you’d like. There are fans of Hinrich’s, I believe, that do have some of those characteristics, though.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Apr 5, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Why assume I took offense?
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
by wjb1492 on Apr 5, 2009 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The sarcasm, the assumption you don't like being called an idiot w/ no b-ball knowledge.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Apr 5, 2009 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sarcastic 97% of the time
I only bother to be offended around 5%. And then I usually write a long, rambling post to explain why I’m offended, because obviously everybody cares a ton about my feelings around here. ;)
I was just poking fun at you poking fun at Kirk lovers. I guess I should have just called you funny names. Or added a ;-) – but they kind of ruin the impact sometimes.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
by wjb1492 on Apr 5, 2009 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please keep in mind that those awards are handed for each conference
Rose’s competition in the East is pretty thin, and the Bulls’ string of impressive wins against winning teams makes his numbers look more impressive. On a whole, it looks like the team improved a little on the defensive side, but there is still little to no effort most games on that end. Noah continues to prove that he’s a legit starting center in this league, Tyrus continues his string of consistent, yet average play. His defense is his saving grace, without it there would be no reason to have hope in him.
Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 4, 2009 11:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Looking over the splits, I really hope someone hires Rose a shooting coach this summer
For 2009, Rose is an incredibly awful 2 of 26 from the 3 point line. The ability to at least shoot 32-33% from the arc will prevent defenses from just zoning him off or packing the paint all the time.
Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 5, 2009 12:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Three-point success
For the year Rose is 16-68 or 24% so not as bad.
Obviously, better 3-point shooting will greatly improve Rose’s offensive prowess, but it isn’t a requirement. Dwayne Wade has always been a below average 3-point shooter yet still manages to dominate offensively.
Tony Parker also does a lot of scoring without good 3-point shooting. He shoots at 30%, but his last four seasons look like this:
11-36 (30%)
15-38 (40%)
17-66 (26%)
19-62 (30%)
by djta on Apr 5, 2009 3:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It isn't necessary
But it does keep teams honest. Parker is in a situation Rose will probably never be in as a Bull, and that does make a difference in how his game has matured. I don’t expect him to be Steve Nash out there, but it’s beneficial for him to be considered at least an average outside shooter.
Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 5, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he needs this game
Later in his career he’ll need it as the penetration strengths start to wear down. But right now I’d rather have him focus on developing his mid range game both on and off the dribble. The more we can work Derrick in and around the circle the greater the opportunities he can create. He’ll have shot options, pass options, and penetration options if he just works around the circle.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Apr 6, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha I didn't even read your comment before posting mine
but we think alike!
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Apr 6, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally
I think him developing his mid-range shot is 1st and foremost as far as offseason practice should go. I would also say he needs to work on getting to the line more but how do you practice that? It’s more about knowing your opponent and their tendencies IMO, which he should get better at as he plays more and more games. I’m curious to see how he’ll react in a playoff series after going against the same guy 1,2,3 games in a row. He should be able to find little advantages he can capitalize on, while hopefully also figuring out how to defend whomever he’s paired against.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Apr 6, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Midrange game is important
But, Rose is the kind of talent that should be able to kill you from anywhere on the court. I’m not comparing Paul’s skill to Rose, but CP3 has become the most dangerous point guard because he has improved his shooting so much. It’s impossible to guard him when he’s on because he can hit the jumper, beat anyone off the dribble, and get to the free throw line. Again, I don’t want him to be locked in a gym doing nothing but shooting 3s, there’s much more pressing needs, just mentioning how it could really help him.
Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 6, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hehe... reading a Roland Beech interview
SLAM: What’s the most surprising thing you guys found when you guys had accumulated enough game-charting data to have significant findings? (For me, it was how inefficient mid-range jumpers are across the board.)
RB: Yes I think the mid-range shots being so low a percentage for so many players is a key finding (when you consider it’s rare to draw a foul on those shots, the offensive rebound rates are not good, it’s even worse!) and something that we may see become more apparent in team strategy going forward. A team like Orlando is certainly upping the ante on a 3pt/inside skew, as has D’Antoni for some time in both Phoenix and New York. Likewise despite all the myths of ’super clutch players’ the actual league-wide performance in game-winning shot type situations is startling low (about 30 percent).
Okay, so Rose needs to develop a mid-range jump-shot to open up the court. Thomas needs to develop one for similar reasons. Deng, the $72-million man, supposedly best trait (it’s really not) is his mid-range shot. GO BULLS!!!
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Apr 6, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad Rose doesn't shoot too many threes
Obviously I wish he would shoot them at a better rate when he does. And…
Would it ultimately help his game and our team if he was a better 3pt shooter? Of Course. But I like that he doesn’t settle and shoot a lot of them. He’ll come around though. Not a pretty shot but his midrange is ok. His 3pt shooting will come around too.
by scottie33 on Apr 6, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting. I thought Tyrus Thomas's USG% went up after the trade.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Apr 5, 2009 1:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
His USG went down and so did his efficiency. Don't see that happen very often.
Fire Vinny.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 5, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see that every other month
with Tyrus Thomas
by YaoPau on Apr 5, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tyrus Thomas
Month-USG%-ORTG
Nov-20.1-82.6
Dec-18.3-115.1
Jan-17.7-112.2
Feb-22.0-109.1
Mar-18.8-101.9
by Scotter on Apr 5, 2009 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey Scotter, can you shoot me an email?
by Sports2 on Apr 5, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
R squared of 0.089
Meaning not much connection, and the general trend was inverse(more usg, lower ORTG).
by cubbybear on Apr 6, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
um... was that weighted by minutes played or games played?
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Apr 6, 2009 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As we discussed a couple weeks ago, they did
And then they went down again. In his first 12 games after the trade, his usage rate was 21.2. In the next 10 games after the trade (since that discussion), his usage rate dropped to an average of 17.4
by Sports2 on Apr 5, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh... my numbers seem slightly askew. I found one mistake when I pasted in the recent games to my spreadsheet
but that gives me a usage rate of 19.5 over the past 10 games and 19.1 for March. For the season I have him at 19.4 (vs. Basketball-Reference’s 19.3. So… I seem to be off by a tiny amount, but I’m not seeing why. Frustrating.
Formula for usage is: 100 * ((FGA + 0.44 * FTA + TOV) * (Tm MP / 5)) / (MP * (Tm FGA + 0.44 * Tm FTA + Tm TOV))
Right?
by Sports2 on Apr 5, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm using a slightly more complex possessions formula for teams
from BOP and the individual possession formula for BOP necessary to calculate ORtg, which will give me slightly different numbers than that simpler formula.
by Scotter on Apr 5, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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