Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Russell Westbrook and Kevin Durant's Post-Game 5 Outfits

Latest injury update, and a warning

While it stinks that for several days now we just have to dwell on the Bulls fruitless chances in the playoffs after another Vinny (yeah, his team helped him) debacle on Tuesday (greatest impact: lack of desire to blog...), it does help the actual team, since there's a ton of injuries.

KC with the report from practice Thursday:

Besides Salmons, Kirk Hinrich skipped practice Thursday with a sprained left ankle, Tyrus Thomas sat with a sore shoulder and flulike symptoms and Luol Deng remains out with the stress fracture in his right tibia.

And this doesn't even factor in bumps and bruises to Tim Thomas' back and Derrick Rose's wrist.

"I like my chances," Salmons said about appearing in Saturday's matinee against the Nets.

Del Negro called Salmons' groin the most serious of the new injuries, although the MRI performed Wednesday led doctors to tell Salmons the pain could grow but the injury shouldn't get more serious.

So, there you go. If Salmons is out it's a big deal due to the lack of depth at SF (and insistence from Vinny to go Kurt instead of going big...can we at least try it?). And I thought Deng would be farther along now than providing no updates at all.

But with 5 of the last 6 games at home, the Bulls are likely still making the playoffs.

And while I'll never say that's a bad thing, I am already anticipating the spin regarding Vinny's coaching if they do make it (especially with these injuries), or by some miracle win a couple games. Last week Mike McGraw put forth the possibility of the Bulls 'pulling an Atlanta': figuring that with a strong regular season home record they could win all 3 home games. 

Is that a goal? Atlanta won 37 games last year, more indicative of their performance than 3 playoff wins. They parlayed all that goodwill and momentum from the playoffs into 43 wins so far this year (still stink on the road), and Hawks fans are stuck with a cruddy coach who uses every opportunity to bring up a first round playoff series that they lost as some benchmark for success. 

I'm at the point where one of the most important decisions in the offseason will be who's going to be the coach-in-waiting for the inevitable Vinny firing. Because I certainly see him as the coach next year, confident in his performance after getting a playoff appearance, making the same mistakes and not achieving close to what this team could do. So then when he's canned 20 games into the season, I won't stand for another interim disaster. Someone better be there and ready.

Comment 131 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Also, at what point does Paxson start getting pissed off that the team he's constructed

is chronically underachieving because of this idiot walking the sidelines?

How many more close games do the Bulls have to blow? How many more late game situations where the “play” is just get the ball to Gordon and pray he makes something happen? How many more times do we “go Hinrich” instead of “going big” when we get the injury bug?

When will Paxson be forced to action? I’m getting sick of waiting. God, I hate rooting for this franchise sometimes.

Fire Vinny.

by fundamentallysound on Apr 3, 2009 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's time for Paxson to drink the same juice Jerry Angelo has been drinking.

Let’s get him in the same room with Kenny and JA.

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Apr 3, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

It takes two to tango!

Denver wanted to make that trade. Bosh is a player that I think helps the Bulls the most. Is Toronto willing to consider a trade? Now that they are on a winning streak I think Toronto’s motivation has decreased. I feel relatively certain Paxson wants to make a move. He cannot do it without a willing partner.

by chgobr on Apr 3, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Paxson did good this year with the trades

with what was in front of him. But he needs to make that bold move and let go of Vinny. Vinny is not ready to be a head coach.

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Apr 3, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

And Jim Hendry.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 3, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

your mistake

while I’m not in the slightest bit impressed with this team making the playoffs by being at best one game over .500, the fact that they are going to make the playoffs despite Vinny Del Negro’s bumbling suggests that next year with natural improvement by the young players like Rose, Tyrus and Noah (assuming they resign Gordon) they could wind up getting to around 48 wins on talent alone.

Sad part is, I doubt Paxson fires Vinny for that, especially if they get off to a strong start (not that that’s ever happened for the Bulls in recent memory). I would not be surprised if we’re stuck with Vinny till at least 2010.

by JSlakov on Apr 3, 2009 9:56 AM CDT reply actions  

What's our OT record?

How many wins have we lost in the final minute and a half?

Stat guys….lemme know. Wonder if we had a more reasonable balance to these games if we’d be at 45-46 wins this year….

3-31-09: The date when the last relative Vinny supporter knows he NEEDS to be canned. Fire Vinny, Fire Bickerstaff, hire a new head coach and keep Del Harris as the head assistant. Jerry, a player with Rose's skills and upside don't come around often.

by majoyenrac on Apr 3, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

My point is

Even if individual players improve…..that coaching flaw that is always shown in ability to win close games, will still be there.

3-31-09: The date when the last relative Vinny supporter knows he NEEDS to be canned. Fire Vinny, Fire Bickerstaff, hire a new head coach and keep Del Harris as the head assistant. Jerry, a player with Rose's skills and upside don't come around often.

by majoyenrac on Apr 3, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

So under normal circumstances

That’s at least 5 more wins…..making us be 7-6 in those circumstances (with our young talent/legs and the teams we’ve gone to OT with and lost, that seems reasonable).

Thx.

3-31-09: The date when the last relative Vinny supporter knows he NEEDS to be canned. Fire Vinny, Fire Bickerstaff, hire a new head coach and keep Del Harris as the head assistant. Jerry, a player with Rose's skills and upside don't come around often.

by majoyenrac on Apr 3, 2009 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

It would almost be better if the Bulls did

miss the playoffs. I’m not hoping for it, I’d love to watch another 4-5 games this year but in the grand scheme of things should they miss the playoffs, there’s a higher likelihoood of Pax realizing while he did improve the team, there’s still a long way to go. And it all starts with the coach.

"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."

by Ugh It Live! on Apr 3, 2009 10:02 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

We'll Vinny making the playoffs shouldn't gaurantee him his job.

It has happened in the past where a team has made it to the playoffs and the coach has been let go after doing so. In an effort to improve and move on sometimes there is hard decisions to make.

Avery Johnson was let go after making to the playoffs but after two early exits from the playoffs was let go.

After going 9-14 earlier this season Maurice Cheeks was let go even after making the playoffs last season.

In 1989 our Chicago Bulls let go of a good in Doug Collins in order to make that next step hiring Phil Jackson as their head coach.

But to find a move in under Paxson’s watch would be the firing of Skiles who took the Bulls to the conference semi-finals in 2007 and was let go the following season.

If letting go of Vinny makes the team better then the move needs to be done. It’s Paxson’s job to do so.

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Apr 3, 2009 10:06 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Who would you consider as coach?

As per my post above I want someone who can improve our defense.

by chgobr on Apr 3, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

I would have a talk with

Avery, Mitchell, Eddie Jordan and Cheeks.

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Apr 3, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not Saunders or Thibodeau?

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 3, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Saunders is a good coach

but he’s never taken that next step. He’s never built a championship team. I put him in the same category as Alderman or Dunleavy. As for Thibodeau see my comment below.

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Apr 3, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

And the guys you mentioned have???

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 3, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Jordan, Avery, and Mitchell

have only been given one chance. I would like to see what they can do with another group of guys. Flip has shown what he can do with two teams. And both teams had the fire power to be champions. He’s worth taking a look at but I wouldn’t put him on top of the list. I would put Jordan and Avery at the top.

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Apr 3, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Avery led two of the biggest playoff collapses ever.

And Flip has shown that he can take good teams far. Only a handful of coaches have won an NBA championship.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 3, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah but only after your second team

you can really be labeled for what you are

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Apr 3, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Jeff Van Gundy

If only cause he ran out on the court and clung onto Mourning’s leg during a pretty intense scuffle.

(Oh, and there’s the fact that his teams are usually pretty good defensively)

Besides the guy has a great sense of humour and his balled head would be a welcome change…

by BAB-Bass on Apr 3, 2009 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

He only has a sense of humor when he is NOT coaching.

He turns into a psycho as a coach. I like him a lot, but he’s not the same on TV as he is on the bench.

I say go for Avery Johnson. I think Dirk had a lot more to do with the collapse (as well as the refs and Wade) than Avery. He is a very good defensive minded coach who could really help Rose, unlike DelCrapo. Eddie Jordan has never coached much defense. I just don’t like Flip. Something doesn’t seem right to me. I’m with J theory, I think we have seen what he is and it is a guy who gets out coached and eventually loses his players. They tune him out.

by Unrealcity on Apr 3, 2009 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

My problem with Avery

The Dallas choke job was just so glaring that I don’t think he deserves another shot this quick. Blowing the finals lead and then getting absolutely outcoached by Nellie doesn’t give me any condfidence in him.

I want a defensive minded coach and the last thing I remember about Avery was GState running their up and down outscore you offense and it worked.

by Jscho316 on Apr 3, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

You can't judge a coach by the last thing you saw.

His body of work is very impressive. Look at the Lakers last year. They were amazingly dominate all year. Dominate in the very tough western conference and then got trashed in the finals. But this year, they have grown from it. That’s one point. Vinny aside, Avery seems like someone who has grown from the experience. The other point is that sometimes, there are just bad match ups that make someone look really bad when overall, they are a really great team.

by Unrealcity on Apr 3, 2009 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

tom thibodeau

I agree 100% that the Bulls need a defensive coach. How about a coach that has coaching experience. Sure he hasn’t been a head coach but someone who has been on a bench in the finals has enought experience to teach the Bulls play team defense.

The job Thibodeau did in Boston is take some bad individual defensive players Ray Allen and Pierce in some respect… and transform the whole team into a great defensive team. I think he could hide Ben Gordon or Derricks defensive liabilities if he teaches Noah and Thomas how to play help defense. He could also teach Derrick how to rotate to shooters in the corner once the offensive player has gotten into the lane.

by Jscho316 on Apr 3, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

My choices are the same, except in reverse order. Flip can coach both offense and defense, Thibs

is known as a defensive specialist. I think Flip’s fantastic. If we got Thibs, though, I’d probably do a jig. Our defense would be SO much better.

Fire Vinny.

by fundamentallysound on Apr 3, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

JEFF VAN GUNDY'S

My #1 and has been for years…..nice thing too is he won’t have to force a slower Yao or Ewing pace with our speedy guys, and he’s a better defensive coach than Skiles is, and seems more likable to the players….

3-31-09: The date when the last relative Vinny supporter knows he NEEDS to be canned. Fire Vinny, Fire Bickerstaff, hire a new head coach and keep Del Harris as the head assistant. Jerry, a player with Rose's skills and upside don't come around often.

by majoyenrac on Apr 3, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

No problem with him

he is the mentor of Thibadeau ( who I want) so might as well get the guy with the head coaching experience.

by Jscho316 on Apr 3, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Glad I'm not the only one who likes him as our coach :)

JVG as head and Thom as assistant? That would be nice… (Sigh)

by BAB-Bass on Apr 3, 2009 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Maurice Cheeks thing is exactly what yfBB is talking about.

Improvement from the team last year (partially dictated by the GM) led them to keeping him around. They started off poorly this year (w/ Brand out, mind you) and then fired Cheeks.

If the Bulls start out poorly (partially due to the Circus road trip) is that a good enough justification to fire Del Negro? How is that so? This team started out poorly under Skiles and he was/is a good coach. Starting out poorly under Del Negro next year shouldn’t be the “evidence” Paxson needs to fire Del Negro, especially since it means suffering through another interim coach.

Del Negro is not a good coach.* He should be fired this summer when they can hire available candidates (Saunders, Thibadeau, etc.) and allow them to coach the team in the pre-season. Not in the middle of next year when they’ll promote one of the assistants and then have to hire a new one the following summer.

*He may, possibly, maybe, down-the-line, eventually be one, but he’s not now.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 3, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

You are right; he shouldn't even be given the chance next year.

This is the pros. You need to be able to coach from day one.

And let’s stop getting so excited over a career assitant coach in Thibadeau. He’s never been a head coach and there is a reason for that. Look at the guy from Memphis Ivaroni who was a great assitant but still had a lot to learn as a head coach. Do you want another person who still has to learn while on the job?

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Apr 3, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not going to take a failed head coach over an assistant...

…just because someone else decided to give that failed coach a promotion before.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 3, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Who would you consider a failure?

Let’s look at Eddi Jordan. His firing happened after his team was plagued with injuries.

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Apr 3, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, and I'd consider Jordan as a 3rd or 4th choice.

I’d consider Avery “failed”. He might redeem himself, but at this point, I don’t want him anywhere near the team. I think Rose needs to be taught how to run the team himself so that he can react and make use of his great one-on-one abilities. I don’t want them walking the ball up the court every time and having Rose look over to the sideline every time for which play to run. As an entertainment value, I think it’s boring. As a practical matter, I don’t think it’s the best fit for this team.

Cheeks is certainly failed due to the fact that the only reason the Sixers had a dramatic improvement last year was because the GM told him to stop playing the bad veterans and start playing the better young guys.

I wouldn’t consider Mitchell “failed”, but I wouldn’t consider him all that “proven” either. I suppose I’d consider him after more research into it.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 3, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

And Saunders doesn't slow up the pace?

He has almost the same style. And like I said you can’t really label Avery’s style. He could have run that way because of the team he had to work with. Trying to slow up the game to set up Dirk.

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Apr 3, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Saunders did in Detroit.

He had teams in Minnesota (the good ones) that were 9th-12th in pace so I think that shows some adaptability. But I also think he’s more of a “proven” and good coach than Johnson.

The thing I don’t like about Johnson is that he played to Golden State’s style of play in that series and not to his strengths. And he ruled Devin Harris with an iron hand. Maybe he can and/or has changed. Some coaches change. Some don’t. I think Saunders has shown that he can adapt.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 3, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well at least we agree on Jordan

Saunders had Cassell, Garnett, and Sprewell.

Then he had Billups, Hamilton, Prince, Wallace, and Wallace and he still couldn’t get to the finals.

I wouldn’t mind having him as a coach because he is good but I’ve seen enough of him not to put him ahead of the list.

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Apr 3, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

I meant to add:

I don’t think we can argue a way to a reconciliation at this point. Agree to disagree.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 3, 2009 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agree

In Avery’s next interview the GSW series should be brought up because that was a huge mistake on his part.

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Apr 3, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Even Dirk said he thought Avery was overcontrolling on the offensive end

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Apr 3, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agree

Avery was given one of the most maple syrupy head coaching gigs ever….I mean what coach comes into a team on the rise as a rookie coach, a team that had what a 60 win or 58 win year the year before with a superstar and all the pieces to play with….? None but Vinnie (well Phil Jackson got a team on the rise, but he proved successful enough to take him out of the equation)…..Vinnie failed miserably, twice….and while 1 took a Herculean Wade effort to beat them, Wade did that 4 straight games without the coach doing anything to stop him….then the next year Avery overcoached and was beat up mostly by Nellie-ball.
Nelson’s a better coach, and a hall of famer for a reason (I don’t know if he’s technically in yet, but he will be in), but when you have a team as solid as those Mavs were that year with far superior talent, they shouldn’t go down like they did…..especially coming accross the biggest collapse in NBA finals history the season before…

Add in the whole he’s unapproachable thing from the players, and I wouldn’t want Avery near this young team….

Though wait and see if he’s hired, I’ll endorse him (Bulls optimist always, sad to say).

Give us JVG.

3-31-09: The date when the last relative Vinny supporter knows he NEEDS to be canned. Fire Vinny, Fire Bickerstaff, hire a new head coach and keep Del Harris as the head assistant. Jerry, a player with Rose's skills and upside don't come around often.

by majoyenrac on Apr 3, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with the asterix Tyger

I do think Vinny has a good basketball mind and does seem to get the respect from his players (sans Larry that is), but I think he’s still a few years away from being a really good head coach……and with a talent like Rose and the all around but Raw skilled Tyrus, we need a good, solid veteran head coach to help bring these guys around (one who also might be with the team a few years to help with consistent coaching for our young guys)…

3-31-09: The date when the last relative Vinny supporter knows he NEEDS to be canned. Fire Vinny, Fire Bickerstaff, hire a new head coach and keep Del Harris as the head assistant. Jerry, a player with Rose's skills and upside don't come around often.

by majoyenrac on Apr 3, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

certainly some excellent coaching comments on this thread

.. especially compared to the period prior to VDN appointment … and also midway thru the season..

man up!

by exult463 on Apr 3, 2009 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll hope for the best.

I want them to make the playoffs. I want them to fire Del Coacho.

Doing that would be especially good because it’d give me an impression that they’re doing more than seeing which way the wind is blowing this week.

by Sports2 on Apr 3, 2009 10:41 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Agreed. Definitely the best-case scenario.

It would be tough to sell to the public to say, " I know we made the playoffs after only winning 33 games the year before, but we need to fire this guy." Hopefully, they trust that the fanbase trusts them, Del Negro’s deal did have an unguaranteed 3rd year and they really do see that this team is playing well despite the coach.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 3, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'll answer for him.

Saunders.

"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."

- fundamentallysound

by J Theory on Apr 3, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

umm... thanks?

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 3, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ha

I was -wondering- thinking the same thing

by NittanyCub on Apr 3, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Literally right now? Just Flip Saunders, I suppose. Maybe Eddie Jordan.

I think Thibodeau will be available and he’s my #1 choice. A year ago it looked Karl might be available at some point, and I’m a fan of his, but he’s not going anywhere now.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 3, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

The next coach must be a keeper

We cannot tolerate another failed coaching situation. If that happens then you have to say the team make-up is wrong not the coach. We need to find someone very likely to succeed. We all agree VDN does not measure up. We do not have a concensus on who would likely succeed.

by chgobr on Apr 3, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

If that's the case, then I think the only choice is Saunders.

He’s the only that’s “proven” that his teams play to their talent level. They might not exceed it, but they likely won’t underachieve either.

And I don’t think there ever will be a consensus on who is likely to succeed. These guys aren’t head coaches right now for a reason, right?

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 3, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd be happy with Eddie Jordan or JVG

not so much Saunders, and I’d never want George Karl. These two both always seem to pull a Hinrich 4th qtr manuver when the pivotal game is on the line and they must attempt to out coach their opponent.. Their limitations have been exposed countless times..(mark my word watch Denver in the playoff!, although Billips brings so much to the table and he alone might save nullskull Karl)

Yet, they’re decent, I like Eddie Jordan intensity and believe he has potential to be a good coach in the NBA, likewise JVG is a smart guy and I believe he has a bright future in coaching in the NBA.

man up!

by exult463 on Apr 3, 2009 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're right. I completely forgot about JVG.

He seems a lot more mellower than he was as a coach. If he’s still like that as a coach now, I’d think about it.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 4, 2009 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

No Karl either

NBA score first isn’t working…. Pheonix out of playoffs, Nuggets havent won a first round series under Karl ever ( or in last 3 years) NY did nothing this year. G State is in lottery.

The Bulls need a defensive minded coach who can win games in the 90s or 80s in the playoffs.

by Jscho316 on Apr 3, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

He coaches good defense.

Check out the efficiencies here. His team just runs a lot so they give up more points in total and it looks bad. Seriously, he’s had good defensive teams, especially in Seattle, but he’s also had a lot more “offensive” players in Milwaukee and Denver. Their defense is Top-10 since he’s been there.

He might not be the greatest coach, but I think he’s the epitome of a coach that is able to adapt the style to the players he has.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 3, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

God I'd hate it if we had

Karl…..the man’s just always dumping on players and making excuse after excuse after excuse while blaming players forever. HE WAS TERRIBLE in Milwaukee, and the fact that he’s had decent Nuggets talents and hasn’t done enough with them is enough……

Plus I really hated him when I was in college in Milwaukee, he’s a fraud. Keep him far away….he has issues with players more than Scott Skiles ever did……and yet he’s had the luck of good talent consistently to keep him employed……but hasn’t won.

3-31-09: The date when the last relative Vinny supporter knows he NEEDS to be canned. Fire Vinny, Fire Bickerstaff, hire a new head coach and keep Del Harris as the head assistant. Jerry, a player with Rose's skills and upside don't come around often.

by majoyenrac on Apr 3, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

You should read the FanShot about him.

He would have won… EXCEPT FOR HAVING TO FACE THE BEST TEAM IN THE HISTORY OF THE NBA!!!

Can you honestly tell me that Milwaukee and Denver have had “championship-level” rosters?

Seattle did. And he took them to the brink. And only lost due to facing ONE OF THE BEST TEAMS IN NBA HISTORY!

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 3, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know

THe late 90’s Bucks roster was pretty fricking stellar….and they had Vinny….

I understand them not winning against the Bulls….but I also remember the issues with Payton and Karl, then Ray Allen and Karl, then Melo and Karl, then A.I. and Karl, JR Smith and Karl….

Karl’s one of the most high maintenance coaches in the league, and we’re a team that last year proved we can be high maintenance and young too….I don’t think we’re best suited for a whiny coach…..

3-31-09: The date when the last relative Vinny supporter knows he NEEDS to be canned. Fire Vinny, Fire Bickerstaff, hire a new head coach and keep Del Harris as the head assistant. Jerry, a player with Rose's skills and upside don't come around often.

by majoyenrac on Apr 3, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

agreed.. no Karl no Karl no Karl!

If he’s the choice, then we might as well keep VDN…

man up!

by exult463 on Apr 3, 2009 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not really sure about that ..

Still there is a good chance you’re right, but I fear that also the opposite might occur. The alter ego “drama queen” Karl might be dominant and he’ll want the spot light in Chicago and he could alienate the players with his public assults against them for whatever reasons..

Next if he makes the playoffs with a Bulls team, he’ll choke as usual when he has to make game time critical decisions that decide the outcome of the game.

I believe if VDN gets the team from (A to B-), then Karl might get the team from (A to B) at best. I believe we need a coach that is good enough to finish the job, and Karl imho isn’t it.

man up!

by exult463 on Apr 6, 2009 4:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure what those other teams have to do with George Karl.

The 1995-1996 Seattle team was the 3rd-best defensive team in the league. I’m not sure how much better you could want than that (obvious answer: 1st or 2nd). Not only that, but that George Karl team took what was perhaps the greatest team in the history of the NBA to six games.

That’s right, the 72-10 Bulls lost 2 games in the NBA Finals to a team coached by George Karl. Yes, he had Gary Payton, Hersey Hawkins, Schrempf, Kemp and Sam Perkins, but against the Bulls? I can’t see how anyone can say that George Karl isn’t a great coach or that his “style” doesn’t win. I mean, if you’re coaching Carmelo Anthony and Allen Iverson, I don’t know how you get an above-average defense going… And he did.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 3, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Just the Denver style

 You are right that he coached well in Seattle and I actually followed the Bucks during the Glen/Ray/Sam era and liked how he stood up for Sam and Glen against Ray in fueds.

My complaint is the current Denver team is a run run run team and it hasn’t worked for them. They havent made it out of the first round in the last three years. I know its the west but a 3 6 loss to the Clippers?

As far as him as a Bulls coach if he were available…. I’m just worried about what I see in Denver and if he brought that to the Bulls they’d run and be exciting but that doesn’t work in the playoffs. If he transformed the team to a defensive minded team I’d be fine cause I think he is a good managing the locker room coach.

by Jscho316 on Apr 3, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think he changed his style, though.

Not considerably slower, but slowed down. I mean, you have to when it goes from Iverson to Billups.

And voila!

He slows the team down and the team gets better. If you want to argue that’s an indictment against run, run, run, go ahead. But then you also should acknowledge that he’s not married to that style. They currently have the 2nd-best team in the West and arguably a Top-5 team in the league.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 3, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

It helps

too that they’ve had their bigs somewhat healthy. I mean NENE’s been a beast when healthy for the last few years and yet is never healthy.

Billups helped quite a bit to add that leader, but having a healthy Nene is more of an impact than a healthy Camby….Nene can do it on both ends.

3-31-09: The date when the last relative Vinny supporter knows he NEEDS to be canned. Fire Vinny, Fire Bickerstaff, hire a new head coach and keep Del Harris as the head assistant. Jerry, a player with Rose's skills and upside don't come around often.

by majoyenrac on Apr 3, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

You can run, run, run

If you play D, D, D.

That’s what my team did in its most kickassular season. ;) Won by an average of +40 points (Sigh, the memories….)

by BAB-Bass on Apr 3, 2009 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Two good defensive players earned Seattle that 3rd best honour, and very little to do with Karl..

Gary Payton and Nate McMillin, and Kemp kept offensives honest anchoring the middle..

Put two good or great defensive players on any one team and that team will be noted for defense..

In you last analogy.. you failed to mention other good defensive players on those teams (K. Martin and Marcus Camby) who anchored those above average defenses for the Nuggets..

man up!

by exult463 on Apr 3, 2009 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Very little to do with Karl"

wow, the Bulls were very good and had little to do with Phil Jackson.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 4, 2009 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Jackson help guide Bulls to Championships

Karl help Seattle get playoff appearances….

I know another guy “VDN” who also will help the Bulls get to the playoffs in 2008-09 season.

man up!

by exult463 on Apr 6, 2009 4:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

Why not have us

give Ewing a shot. He’s been a big man assistant who’s done wonders with both Yao and Howard……We have talented bigs…..who could use his instruction. I know Tyrus is a tweener 3/4 who’s playing the 4, and is not really a C, but I think Ewing’s instruction could make a guy already good when in the post—which sadly he isn’t enough—even that much more unstoppable….

And Ewing with Brad could really show Joakim a thing or two.

3-31-09: The date when the last relative Vinny supporter knows he NEEDS to be canned. Fire Vinny, Fire Bickerstaff, hire a new head coach and keep Del Harris as the head assistant. Jerry, a player with Rose's skills and upside don't come around often.

by majoyenrac on Apr 3, 2009 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed

But I might rather him a rookie to Hornacek, at least he’s had some success….

As far as coaches go, JVG is easily my tops….I’m just pointing out some others on the cheaper route which are in the Reinsdorf mindset….

Ewing’s done a great job bringing Yao up and Howard’s progressed like crazy under him in a quick timeframe (granted both had natural talent too)….but they get high marks to Ewing as do both of those Van Gundy’s…

3-31-09: The date when the last relative Vinny supporter knows he NEEDS to be canned. Fire Vinny, Fire Bickerstaff, hire a new head coach and keep Del Harris as the head assistant. Jerry, a player with Rose's skills and upside don't come around often.

by majoyenrac on Apr 3, 2009 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Umm...

Howard and Yao are physical freaks by even NBA standards. I don’t think a lot of the credit can go to Ewing. One is 6 inches taller than the competition and the other is twice as wide. If he makes an average NBA center awesome more power to him.

by bullschwaa on Apr 4, 2009 7:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Did you watch them before Ewing

Ewing worked out their kinks very quickly and has received credit for his work everywhere, including from both of them.

3-31-09: The date when the last relative Vinny supporter knows he NEEDS to be canned. Fire Vinny, Fire Bickerstaff, hire a new head coach and keep Del Harris as the head assistant. Jerry, a player with Rose's skills and upside don't come around often.

by majoyenrac on Apr 4, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't want Ewing just cuz he was a good big...

…just like I wouldn’t want Michael Jordan just cuz he was a great player.

But there is a difference between a rookie coach and a rookie head coach.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 4, 2009 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

I wish we could demote Del Coacho

to assistant. He’s infinitely more qualified than Boylan at that role, and I think he does a good job at talking with the players and keeping them motivated, and is good with employee relations…..but he’s been made a head coach a bit too soon and time and time again shows this….early in the season it was expected, but he’s coached 70+ games and still is doing the same things….to bad results.

3-31-09: The date when the last relative Vinny supporter knows he NEEDS to be canned. Fire Vinny, Fire Bickerstaff, hire a new head coach and keep Del Harris as the head assistant. Jerry, a player with Rose's skills and upside don't come around often.

by majoyenrac on Apr 3, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

BTW

I prefer “the Hair” as a nickname to del coacho….or Vinny Del Eggroll…but I was responding to the post above. The Hair’s my favorite one though…

3-31-09: The date when the last relative Vinny supporter knows he NEEDS to be canned. Fire Vinny, Fire Bickerstaff, hire a new head coach and keep Del Harris as the head assistant. Jerry, a player with Rose's skills and upside don't come around often.

by majoyenrac on Apr 3, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't really see the big interest in Saunders

Let’s remember he’s the same guy who couldn’t get out of the first round in Minnesota save for one year and couldn’t get a more talented Pistons squad past Miami and Cleveland in back to back years.

Oh, and he’s the same guy that refused to double team LeBron as he was scoring 28 straight points in Game 5 and was the only option on the floor.

My greatest enemy is my inner me

by TheCool1 on Apr 3, 2009 12:37 PM CDT reply actions  

If he made progress this season I could see it

But I don’t think really think he has…..I’ve never seen a coach this bad…and seeming to not learn much from it.

by Camry on Apr 3, 2009 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think he can improve

But with Rose and Tyrus being so gifted and still young, I don’t want to take the risk again and further stunt their development if he does not improve. Get either a good veteran (some are mentioned above by Tyger and others) or I think give a guy with a proven record for changing at least guys he’s worked wtih even if not a head coach (Thibaedeou with Pierce and Allen’s D) or Ewing maybe with the JVG and SVG endorsements….and his success in bringing Yao and Howard along very quickly….though I’d still rather go with the experienced head coach, and think JVG is not only a good coach, but one whom his players seem to like.

3-31-09: The date when the last relative Vinny supporter knows he NEEDS to be canned. Fire Vinny, Fire Bickerstaff, hire a new head coach and keep Del Harris as the head assistant. Jerry, a player with Rose's skills and upside don't come around often.

by majoyenrac on Apr 3, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

He'd could easily improve with some more experience, or he could just be another Terry Porter

Someone too dumb for head coaching. This roster doesn’t have the time to find out, maybe he’ll turn around the Grizzlies or something.

Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.

by Ozzie Montana on Apr 3, 2009 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's exactly what I agree with.

With a team that has one or two high lottery picks and isn’t any good, they can wait and see how Del Negro does. However, the Bulls have a very, very good young team that should be on the verge of breaking out. No matter what you think of the young guys, taking into account the age and where they were picked and which year, Deng, Hinrich, Gordon, Thomas, Noah, Rose, etc. should be ready to break out. They need someone that can bring out the best in them RIGHT NOW. They can’t wait to see if a coach finds his way over the next year or two.

This team is young, but not completely inept. It is very talented. They need a “RIGHT NOW” coach at this moment.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 3, 2009 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Any of the Above

would be a quantum improvement over the embarrassment we current call a coach. Its like asking which would you rather drink: Stoli, Jack Daniels, Johnny Walker or Boone’s Farm Apple wine in a box. (Sorry if I offended any of you Boone’s Farm drinkers out there)

by Cannoli on Apr 3, 2009 1:11 PM CDT reply actions  

Seriously

why is eddie jordan not here yet?

..on 2/18/09, Noc was gone..and on the next day, Larry "The Chucker" was just a bad dream...

by Belize on Apr 3, 2009 1:16 PM CDT reply actions  

some other names

Aside from eddie jordan, two other names come to mind that haven’t been mentioned. REggie Theus and Dwayne Casey. I wouldn’t want to hire a coach without head coaching experience after the VDN experience is over, but the bulls are cheap so they probably won’t hire a big name. Theus and Casey both got fired, in my opinion, for reasons that had little to do with their coaching ability. Frankly, I don’t scout coaches, but I think they should both be given a second chance at some point. The guy who is coaching Villanova, I think would be perfect if the bulls want to take a gamble but i doubt he is going to make the switch to the NBA.

by Sambossanova on Apr 3, 2009 1:49 PM CDT reply actions  

Yeah

I thought THeus did a good job last year with that team, but ESPN constantly seems to find excuses to bad mouth him, so maybe this year he was more to do with their failure than just Martin’s injury…..I mean even today on their guys on the fence, they put a dig at Theus, and he’s been long gone…

Haven’t followed the Kings too much of late, but what I saw last year when they were healthy under Theus (maybe a small sample size of 5-6 games to my only 2 games this year against only us) I liked what I saw even when they lost.

3-31-09: The date when the last relative Vinny supporter knows he NEEDS to be canned. Fire Vinny, Fire Bickerstaff, hire a new head coach and keep Del Harris as the head assistant. Jerry, a player with Rose's skills and upside don't come around often.

by majoyenrac on Apr 3, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

I thought they had a bunch of injuries last year too

Early in this season they were just losing some close ones even to the good teams they were in it.
PHX-SA-Blazers in Portland all those games were like 1-2-3 point loses. Though they had a lot of blow outs too they didn’t have any fire power to keep up. And they still had their worst loss of the season after the coaching change

He won around 6 games out of 24. The new coach only 3 better in 50. I was surprised they fired him he was doing great with what he had.

by Camry on Apr 3, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

I thought so too....

Hopefully a Kings guy’ll come on here and let us know…..but I liked what I saw last year and I saw probably 10% of their games (not too shabby), but now they are just never ever on TV and are a mess…and Theus is getting seemingly from the outside still some undo blame.

I thought they were building something nice last year, then injuries early derailed this season….

3-31-09: The date when the last relative Vinny supporter knows he NEEDS to be canned. Fire Vinny, Fire Bickerstaff, hire a new head coach and keep Del Harris as the head assistant. Jerry, a player with Rose's skills and upside don't come around often.

by majoyenrac on Apr 3, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

I like Reggie

isnt he coaching college now?

..on 2/18/09, Noc was gone..and on the next day, Larry "The Chucker" was just a bad dream...

by Belize on Apr 3, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't want any college coaches

at all. Sorry, no “gambles, hunches, risks”, get a proven NBA coach and that’s that. How fucking hard can it be?

"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."

by Ugh It Live! on Apr 3, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Maybe we can get Jerry Tarkanian

Reggie’s old coach at UNLV. We can resurrect the Runnin’ Rebels style of basketball (reminiscent of the Phoenix Suns, but with less defense) We could pass out towels for everyone to chew. He’d come dirt cheap, and even with encroaching dementia, he’s 100 times better than Vinnie.

by Cannoli on Apr 3, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Vinnie already has signs of dementia.

Why else would he keep forgetting Noah on the bench?

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Apr 3, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

He sees the hair

and thinks “AAAAH! MY WORST NIGHTMARE!!!!!”, forgets what he was thinking, and doesn’t remember to switch him in.
Nobody challenges the Hair for most rediculous hairstyle! Nobody … except …

Joakim Noah: Better than you.

by Prevenge on Apr 3, 2009 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

He WAS coach here,

once upon a time. Rather inexperienced too, with only a year of scouting and a year as an assistant before being hired. (Sound like anybody else?)

Played a lot of 3 for the Bulls too, back in the day. (Sound like anybody else?)

"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!

by marionette on Apr 3, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sloan listed 6'5"..Kirk listed 6'3" actually 6'1" playing SF

it only works because Kirk plays good fundamental defense, and as tries playing defense against SG and SF it works some because they are slow enough for him to say in front of and bother them on the dribble, but against quick guards (TJ Fords, Chris Paul’s, etc) Kirk has no change. Also he has no change against SF when they post him inside and use muscle and strengh. Sloan was stronger..

man up!

by exult463 on Apr 3, 2009 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

What about one of the Jazz assistants?

I know Pax was looking at Hornacek last year until he decided to spend more time with the family. Is Tyrone Corbin ready for a head coach position? I feel like anyone that has coached under Sloan has to know what’s what.

by DRose01 on Apr 3, 2009 8:02 PM CDT reply actions  

It seems Hornacek

Was pretty spurned by Pax (as Pax said he’d call him for the second interview or third interview or whatever it was and was excited about him—per Hornacek) then next thing he new Vinny was hired without any indication….

I know this happens a lot in real life, but Hornacek’s been a ball player and perhaps hasn’t been around that as much as the common folk in the business world…he seemed really flabergasted by the whole thing—there was an article I think on si.com a few months ago….

3-31-09: The date when the last relative Vinny supporter knows he NEEDS to be canned. Fire Vinny, Fire Bickerstaff, hire a new head coach and keep Del Harris as the head assistant. Jerry, a player with Rose's skills and upside don't come around often.

by majoyenrac on Apr 3, 2009 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree.

But I also think money and commitment “talk”. If he’s the right guy (and I’m not sure he is, but if he is…) give him money and an “I was soooo wrong…” and he’ll come in a heartbeat.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 3, 2009 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Chicago Bulls.

Links

"Best NBA Blogroll"
-- Dan Shanoff

The Essentials:
Bulls.com
NBA.com
HoopsHype
BallHype
ESPN.com NBA

Workin' the Beat:
KC Johnson - Tribune (blog)
John Jackson - Sun-Times (blog)
Mike McGraw - Daily Herald (blog)
Nick Friedell -  ESPNChicago.com
Sam Smith - Bulls.com
Aggrey Sam - CSNChicago.com


More Bulls Blogs/Forums:
Thank You Isiah
Chicago Bulls Podcasters
Bulls Confidential
By the Horns
Bullish Thoughts
Chicago Bulls KY
Pippen Ain't Easy
RealGM Bulls Forum
SportsTwo Bulls Forum

Blogging the Association:
(League Wide)
True Hoop
HoopsAnalyst
Give Me the Rock
The Basketball Jones
NBA Fanhouse
Hoops Addict
SBNation.com - NBA
ProBasketballTalk
ShamSports
Ball Don't Lie
The Painted Area


(Team-Centric)
Queen City Hoops

Bobcats Baseline
Knickerblogger.net    
Sixers' Shots
Forum Blue and Gold
SuperSonicSoul
Hornets247.com 
SonicsCentral.com 
ClipperBlog.com  
The Nugg Doctor
Loy's Place
Reds Army
Need4Sheed
THE WIZZNUTZZ
RaptorsForum.com
TWolvesBlog.com
Spurs Dynasty
David's Memphis Grizzlies Blog
The Bratwurst
Sixers Journal
Sixers 4 Guidos 
3 Shades of Blue  
CavsNews.com
RaptorTalk
Deceptively Quick
TheLakersNation.com
Utah Jazzer Blog
KnicksDefense.com
T. Jose Caldeford
Hoopinion
RaptorBlog.com
Suns @NBAWeblog.com
The Cowhide Globe
Stepien Rules
Project Spurs
Raptors Republic
Dino Nation Blog
Lake Show Life
Valley of the Suns
The KnicksBlog.com
Big Lakers Fan
Roundball Mining Company
Cavs: The Blog
48 Minutes of Hell
Daily Thunder
Piston Powered
The Two Man Game
PistonsNationBlog.com
Cowbell Kingdom.com
Hot Hot Hoops
NetsAreScorching
Celtics Hub
Orlando Magic Daily
Philadunkia
Truth About It
Always Miller Time
Slippery When Nets
Eight Points Nine Seconds
Howlin' T-Wolf
Red 94

MSM NBA blogs:

Ira Winderman (Heat)
Jason Quick (Blazers)
IndyStar.com (Pacers)
Michael Cunningham (Hawks) 
Full-Court Press (Pistons)
Jonathan Feigen (Rockets)
Rick Bonnell (Bobcats)
Jazz Notes
Chris Herrington (Grizzlies)
Orlando Sentinel
Michael Lee (Wizards)
Alan Hahn (Knicks)   
Doug Smith (Raptors)
Marc Berman (Knicks)
Al Iannazzone (Nets)

For the Statheads:
Basketball-Reference.com
APBR Discussion
Knickerblogger's Stat Page
82Games.com
Doug's Stats
Popcorn Machine
HoopData


Other Resources:

HoopsHype Salaries
SportsTwo Salaries
ESPN.com Trade Machine
RealGM: NBA Draftpicks Owed
ShamSports.com Salaries
DraftExpress

 


Guy who does everything

Blogabull_s_small your friendly BullsBlogger