Great game, bad coaching.
John Hollinger rips both coaches in Sunday's Bulls-Celtics thriller for poor decisions at the end of the game and in overtime. "It's like watching a chess match between Jessica Simpson and Pauly Shore."
about 1 year ago
Tim S.
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earlier in the season
it was all about “how can u not have derrick in the closing moments”… now they’d rather have hunter in there to close out a tight game???
I remember Michael dribbling at the top of the key. Everybody knew to just get the hell out of his way. - Steve Kerr
it's one defensive possession
but I agree, I’m never going to complain that Lindsey Hunter isn’t in the game.
I do agree with Hollinger’s point that the Blazers-Rockets game looked like a whole different level of basketball.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 27, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions
God, if only Skiles had run to Paxson and cried about being intimidated by The Corpse before the start of the 07-08 season
What terrible timing to miss out on looking for a coach when Rick Adelman and SVG were both available (yes, I’d prefer both over D’Antoni)
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
yes indeed...
and the part about not subbing in rebounders during that free throw where rondo got that board.
I remember Michael dribbling at the top of the key. Everybody knew to just get the hell out of his way. - Steve Kerr
I was with him 100%
until he suggested putting in a 38 year-old Hunter in at the end of the game. Are we even sure he’s still good at defense?
My greatest enemy is my inner me
God, I was thinking the same thing.
It’s the most disappointing thing about watching this team. While the playoffs experience is good as a motivational factor for off-season work, it’s hard to think they’re “learning” anything from it. OTOH, I feel like the Blazers will actually learn from the experience.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Re: Lindsey Hunter
but what if this had been happening all season. In the playoffs Hunter would be ready.
But that would require coaching
Booooo!
"Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
Hunter's done.
let him be the sage old man for Rose, but I wouldn’t have any regrets over not forcing him in games to prepare him for one playoff possession.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 28, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions
What a damning analysis
I hope Gar sees this and does something.
Again
Fouling or not fouling. This seems silly to make such an issue about….if you don’t foul they either make or miss…or even get an offensive rebound blah blah sure.
But if you foul them unless its like 3 seconds down then I’m kinda not seeing it as just an overwhelming advantage to do that. Because you have to make your own FTs still or if they tie you can still win the game your own self its not any more in your hands with FTs to me.
In the end the other team has to execute once they get the ball back no matter what.
I just don’t know why people think its a definite to me unless its 3 seconds or less.
i don't like the play to foul
play solid defense and make em miss.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
one problem
Bulls don’t play solid defense. So maybe fouling is especially prudent in their case? then again you have to be smart defensively to foul correctly.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 28, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions
true too
plus this is the celtics, not the bulls. i thought they were supposed to be good at defense? :P
i actually loved the last play in the first OT where the bulls forced rondo to shoot that jumper. granted it’s not the same case cause they were tied, but they really did force him to take the shot that i would have wanted.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
Hollinger's a moron
Lindsey Hunter is not the Hunter of 5 years ago……
Salmons has guarded the f out of Pierce all series…..and while Hinrich’s been better cuz he well is a better defender, the switching coverages between those two intermittantly has been the best situation of them all.
As for fouling Rondo on the last play and not letting him get the ball up the court……Boston’s just a better rebounding team and already snagged an offensive board off a FT miss….I think that’s a riskier scenario than we would have thought.
Finally in the not subbing for Tyrus….Did he watch Tyrus? Has he watched Tyrus all year? Tyrus was unhinged last game, and trying to do way too much. When Tyrus is a wild card off his rocker, it’s best to sit him or the most unthinkable and 95% of the time bad things end up happening.
I agree on the errors of Doc to not foul Salmons….that was silly and cost them the game, but nitpicking on Del Negro in this instance shows to me that Hollinger spends too much time with his stats than watching our team…..
He’s a moron.
BTW. I watched some of the Rockets-Blazers series, and I haven’t been all that impressed. They play a more traditional game with the inside and outside style, but I don’t expect either team yet to get past the next round. Artest is still a moron jacking up shots with 20 seconds left ont he shot clock while Houston has a 3-4 pt lead and they are shots that are a bit out of his range…..and the Blazers would be sunk without Roy…..
Battier saved the Rockets. Scola is one of the more underrated and underutilized players on that team (Why they let him be a weakside/garbage only player is beyond me, he’s really good and is their main x factor, who isn’t able to show his game—-he’s their version of the even better AK47)….and of course Yao gets you points and good D, but you’d think he’d be able to do so much more….
The Rockets look young, they are the Chi West, except that they have a traditional game…..young, rather deep, 1 superstar…..
Ok so Vinny seems to have the X's down.....now he needs to learn the O's.
You're not a homer.
“Vinny did nothing wrong.”
“Doc Rivers did do something wrong.”
BWWAHAHAHAHAHA
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
I am not saying
Vinny hasn’t done anything wrong….he has, but in that instance, I don’t know if he did…..
But yeah Doc’s non foul call on Salmons was really surprising, as was Vinny’s non foul call in game 2…..
I don’t think either Doc or Vinny are great coaches. Doc’s been helped by having all the talent around him, and Vinny seems to have a good bball mind, but needs experience…
But in that instance, no I am not going to complain about Vinny’s decisions to sub, especially when Salmons has been guarding Pierce just as solid as Hinrich, and switching the 2 has worked to keep Pierce off his normal game all series…..and the non fouling seems to make sense when we tend to lose more crucial rebounds in this series than normal to the crafty and much stronger Celtics…..
And well, much as I typically dislike not seeing TYrus in at the end of games/crucial times, last game was the one exception where I was totally fine with it. Tyrus not passing the ball to Rose there was appalling….and add that to his helter skelter (Coming down fast) plays beforehand, I think the better option was to not play him there and have him calm down.
Ok so Vinny seems to have the X's down.....now he needs to learn the O's.
Hunter's not the same defender he once was
but I’d have a hard time believing he’s not currently a massively better defender than Rose at this point.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
you don't bring in a 38 year old guy cold off the bench to finish the game
they brought him in at the end of the 2nd half and gave up a 3. Hunter is coach/benchwarmer/emergency player only.
by Basketball Smurf on Apr 28, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
No, you have him go warm up in the tunnel.
Do other teams do this? Chuck Hayes barely played and came in to play D. Did he warm up? Why wouldn’t they? I have no clue.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Didn't understand Rockets comment
How are the Rockets young= Yao in league since Bulls drafted Jay Williams 3 pgs ago, Artest in league since Brad Miller was on Bulls (1st time), Battier in league since Bulls drafted Tys and Eddy, Scola is 28. That is sorta the definition of a veteran team.
They are the older more experienced team in their series. I see no similarities to the Bulls. They have a big man who can score- bulls dont. They play defense 7th in league- bulls dont. They don’t run that much- bulls do. They have a real coach – bulls dont. … ect.
Sorry
Meant Blazers look young…….
That was a typo. Rockets aren’t at all like the Bulls…..that was a total typo….
Oh well, I know the Rockets are veterans, but I still don’t see them as a title contender….course I am biased cuz I’ve hated Artest since he was in Chicago.
Ok so Vinny seems to have the X's down.....now he needs to learn the O's.
Ya I should've figured that
I really like the Rockets right now. They are the only team in the West I see taking LA to 6. I’m still not sold on Denver and I have been impressed with the Rockets in the Portland series.
Luis Scola is my current favorite foreigner now that Manu is hurt. I made an argument on this blog back in december that he is very underrated and I’d rather have him than Tyrus at the 4. I still feel that way based on the argument of trying to win this year or next, but I understand Tyrus can still be valued higher as an asset to trade or develop.
I think the Rockets
Have a ton of talent….and oh Yao helps quite a bit. But until Artest buys into their schemes, I don’t see them really challenging the Lakers.
I don’t know if anyone in the West can challenge the Lakers…..I mean I guess right now the only teams that have a slighest glimmer of a chance are the almost down and out Blazers (Blazers have that whole finesse thing going for them, and they can get the Lakers to play in that finesse style, at which point the 2 teams are evenly matched…..if the Lakers keep the ability to finesse or play strong, they shoudl win, but if McMillan (a great coach) and the Blazers talent can dictate the style of play that is played, the Blazers would match up well….
I actually also think the Mavericks of all teams might be the toughest competitor…..The Lakers have too much athleticism and well Kobe that they should stop the Nuggets, the surging Nuggets….but the Mavericks are finally getting something from Josh Howard when they needed to most, and with him reinvigorated and reasonably healthy, they are a totally different team than the one that was an easy out to the Lakers 3 weeks ago….. I mean Dirk is as streaky as you get (except when he’s on, given his size, he’s unstoppable). Kidd ain’t quite the Kidd of old, but he also ain’t nearly as bad as the bloggers version of Kidd either. Howard is a gifted player who somehow seemed to lose his confidence on the court, but that’s coming back….and Rick Carlisle is one of the least respected coaches in the league. Don’t forget they have their own assassin in the Jet, who can get as hot as anybody, and given the other double team threats with Nowtizki and finally a tuned in Howard, JET gets open. Plus Kidd, while not a good shooter, seems to always hit the necessary shots to kill runs….has his hole career.
Ok so Vinny seems to have the X's down.....now he needs to learn the O's.
"They play a more traditional game with the inside and outside style, but I don’t expect either team yet to get past the next round."
And if the Bulls were in this round with either of those teams, they’d get bludgeoned.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 28, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
but if we are talking about coaching, and not talent
than I don’t know if the Rockets/Blazers series is the one to look at. Every blazers-rockets game, except the first, shows two teams that can’t score in the final 5 minutes of a game. Blazers run every play for Roy like he’s Michael Jordan. The Rockets throw the ball around until Artest or Brooks jacks up a shot.
by Basketball Smurf on Apr 28, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
That is absolutley not true.
There were several plays that looked great down the stretch that I just shook my head at. Rockets have the 4th-best D vs the Blazers’ best O, not every play will score. Sometimes, they might get more stops. It happens. Blazers’ and Rockets’ have average D and O, respectively. It’s not good if they’re now pounding it into Yao.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
in the final 5 minutes of game 4 of the Rockets-Blazers series
the Blazers attempted only 1 shot, a 22 footer, that wasn’t a 3 pointer. It was a 2 point game, by the way. The Rockets attempted 3 non 3pters – 2 missed layups and a 20 footer from Carl Landry. I don’t think they are sending the Rockets-Blazers series to any coaching clinics.
by Basketball Smurf on Apr 28, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Um, if you want to learn how to coach defense you would
It’s not Adelman’s fault the Rockets continue to ignore Yao in the post. They don’t have a PG who can throw a good post entry pass, and Ron Artest is a dumbass. A real PG would be calling Yao’s number almost routinely in the 4th quarter.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 28, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions
its not adelman's fault they don't run plays for their best player in the final 5 minutes....
that is your “argument.” I guess you can’t blame the coach for the plays they call or the players they put on the floor. Who knew?
I guess the pgs can only throw post entry passes for the first 3 1/2 quarters, but for the final 5 minutes, they totally forget. Aaron Brooks is good enough to lead a team into the 2nd round, but not good enough to throw a post entry pass. Neither is Battier, Artest, Lowry or Scola.
The sad thing is I wasn’t even referring to Yao, I was more talking abuot the Blazers. But now that you mention it, they could run Artest or Scola in the post. They could clear out for Brooks. There are a number of things they can do besides settling for jumpers.
And we will see how great the Rockets defense is when the Lakers beat them 4-1 in a series. If Adelman is such a good defensive coach, what the hell happened in Sacramento. And didn’t Doc and Thibs coach one of the best defensive teams in history last year.
Look I think Adelman is a fine coach. A step above VDN, Doc and McMillan. But Hollinger held out the Rockets-Blazers series as if two coaching titans were matched head to head, while comparing Doc and VDN to Jessica Simpson and Pauly Shore. It took McMillan a 30 pt blowout to realize what the rest of the league takes for granted – you have to front and double Yao. The Celtics won an NBA championship last year, I doubt Doc forgot to coach. I don’t believe the play in the Rocket series has been better than the play in the Bulls series, or that the coaching has been significantly better.
by Basketball Smurf on Apr 28, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I wholeheartedly disagree
When I see the Celtics run the exact same play to tie Game 4 that won Game 2, and the Bulls had absolutely no idea what was coming, that’s horrendous preparation.
Brooks is a decent PG, but no none of the Rockets besides Battier throw an effective post entry pass. I don’t blame Adelman for Artest and some of the other wings constantly ignoring Yao in crucial moments, it’s a season-long trend and the coach can only harp on it enough.
The Rockets resorted to jump shots in the final moments of a tense game, Vinny apparently thinks John Salmons going 1-on-1 with Paul Pierce 15 times a game is an effective strategy. Switching on every pick and roll? That’s also more brilliance by Vinny. How about no timeouts left at the end of Games 1 and 2? That’s Coaching 101, even Doug Collins was criticizing Vinny for that.
Maybe Hollinger was being bombastic in his praise of the Blazers/Rockets series, but when I watch them play there’s a huge difference in the preparation and execution by those teams than the Bulls. For every good play that Vinny draws up (BG’s game-tying 3) he makes several other crucial mistakes
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 28, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions
also, the refs are allowing pryzbilla and oden
to do everything short of kickbox yao in order to get him out of position for an entry pass. interesting because mcmillan just publicly complained about the officiating.
That is because the Blazers were losing and needed to foul
"The brownies,'' Fernandez said after the game. "The brownies are good for me to make three-points.''
by Sabonis4Ever on Apr 29, 2009 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I think we'd
Get creamed byt he Blazers. McMillan and co would dictate the style and we haven’t fared well at all to them. But Yao is just so slow, that we could run run run against the Rockets and stand a chance. Plus add in that BG’s always played well in Houston…..
I think Houston’s the better team, but matchup wise, I think we’d fare better against them than the Blazers…..
Of course I don’t hink the West is nearly as strong (sans LA) as it’s been in the past…..and I think overall the 2 conferences are equal.
I also think this Celtics team is a lot better than the BaBers want to think.
Ok so Vinny seems to have the X's down.....now he needs to learn the O's.
Hollinger is dead wrong about the Bulls
Yes, the Celtics should have fouled Salmons. But fouling Rondo with 16 seconds left would have made the game a free throw shooting contest. Yes, Rondo is a 64% free throw shooter. But he was money all game. Meanwhile, Hinrich-Gordon-Thomas had all missed big free throws down the stretch. You foul with 16 seconds left and you are increasing the number of possessions and giving the Celtics more chances. And in case people forget, the Bulls fouled at the end of game 2 and Pierce forced up a 3, and was rewarded by the refs.
And I’m sorry, but Salmons has got to be able to rebound over Rondo. That isn’t VDN’s fault, that is Salmons. It wasn’t like Fish was trying to block out KG – Rondo is a skinny 6’3.
But worse of all is the call for Hunter. Hunter isn’t in the league for defensive presence. He is the league for his veteran presence. And you know what, he shouldn’t even be in the league as anything but an assistant coach. Hunter hasn’t played significant minutes in 60 games. If Hollinger had actually watched the Bulls, he would know that.
I’m all for criticizing the coaches but these criticisms seem stupid. House didn’t make a shot in Chicago. Scalabrine made a couple big defensive plays and hit a big 3.
And I’m sorry, I’ve watched the Blazer-Rockets series. That isn’t exactly exciting ball. What about Blake running up and shooting a 3 after Fernandez had just knocked down a 3 in game 3. I think Hollinger’s bias is informing his analysis here.
by Basketball Smurf on Apr 28, 2009 10:09 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Rec to that
I think going in I would have thought I’d see more compelling ball in the Blazers-Rockets series, but you’re points are spot on….and exactly what I’ve seen….though as an outsider, I’d be afraid to match up against Roy if we were in the Bulls shoes…..
Though I don’t think Roy’s quite in Wade’s league, I think we’ve seen Wade a few times and know a few tricks….I think our guys are lost on Roy, course we only play him twice a year….
Ok so Vinny seems to have the X's down.....now he needs to learn the O's.
exciting = good???
They are big, slow and very good teams.
The balls are small, fast, exciting and not very good.
There’s a difference.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
Bulls are quick
Talented, athletic, and better than you think. Can play a few different styles too if necessary…..
Rockets are slow, slow, slow, but really SMART, and that’s the difference.
Bulls are a much better team than we have been early this year, as Rose and the team around Rose has improved and bought in.. If we pull this win off, I’m more impressed than our win against the Heat 2 years ago backe when the Heat squeaked into the playoffs, had a hurt Wade and were a mess….this Celtics team without KG is much better than that Heat team with Wade at 60%….especially add in that Kirk is pretty decent at guarding Wade when he’s 100%….
Ok so Vinny seems to have the X's down.....now he needs to learn the O's.
The Bulls aren't better than I think. The Celtics are worse than you think.
The Bulls’ individual talents are better than you think, and their team game is worse than you’d ever care to admit.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
i forgot
there are several debbie downers on the bull site. wah-wah
by Basketball Smurf on Apr 28, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
i forgot
blogabull was filled with debbie downers. Yes, this isn’t the Celtics team that won the championship. But this is still a good team that won a number of games down the stretch without KG.
by Basketball Smurf on Apr 28, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions
you forgot twice?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 28, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions
the first time i forgot what i was going to say
the second time i forgot my point. My short term memory is under constant attack, forgive me.
by Basketball Smurf on Apr 28, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Tyger
You are in the small minority here my friend. And we’ll leave it at that.
Ok so Vinny seems to have the X's down.....now he needs to learn the O's.
says the resident VDN fan.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 28, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I am not a big VDN fan
But facts are facts, he’s here and he’ll be here next year.
I do think he doesn’t quite deserve all the bile he’s received though and has done far better than expected.
I guess I do tend to take the anti-BaB mass side…..so I’m probably more “anti-estabullsment”….
But yeah, I really think if I were Pax, given the huge untapped talent that is Tyrus and then winning the lottery in a great draft and getting who appears to be a possible “great one” that we should have done whatever we could to get an experienced guy who could help bring that out from day 1, and not “learn on the job”….
But since we have VDN, he has not done EVERYTHING wrong…..still he has to work on game time adjustments.
I’d much rather have JVG, and have said that, and of course I was as excited as could be when I thought we were going to have D’Antoni.
But through it all in this year, Vinny’s done better than I would have expected, and has improved more than the Chicago fans want to think. Sure some play calls are bad, others that are complained about are a bit harsh on him. I don’t think he’s a great tweaker yet.
But I do think he’s far more talented than I would have expected….I just don’t know if he’ll be a really good/great coach for a few more years…..and that’s extremely disappoitning.
Ok so Vinny seems to have the X's down.....now he needs to learn the O's.
You are in the small minority here my friend. And we’ll leave it at that.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 28, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess we'll have to
I just don’t think Skiles or anyone else would be doing much better right now (Except for D’Antoni or JVG that is)……I think Vinny’s at least improving and has made some great calls at critical times for us….
Ok so Vinny seems to have the X's down.....now he needs to learn the O's.
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