Celtics 107, Bulls 86: Forgot this possible scenario
I had a feeling the Bulls homecourt advantage was nothing special, and that they may get down double digits early. That's happened before. Maybe they'd stay reasonably close and make a game of it, or maybe they'd always be at arms length and lose.
Paul Pierce put them in the early hole, but that wasn't insurmountable. What really took the game from 'uh oh', to 'oh shit' was a Celtics run to end the 2nd quarter that put them up 22 at the half. It was as if the Bulls were waiting to regroup at halftime and forgot to play the last several minutes of the half first.
I did not expect anything like this, a complete ass-kicking with the largest margin being 34 points and the entire 4th quarter made irrelevant.
Nearly everyone was awful, but I was really disappointed in Tyrus and Noah. They looked so overmatched physically tonight it's enough to question their long term viability as a tandem. It was that bad. So many times they fumbled passes, or got stripped, or were pushed out of the paint. By a decimated Celtics front line.
And Brad Miller...I swear, it was like he forgot there was a game tonight.
Too many turnovers, and not enough from the Celtics. And the Bulls can't win if they can't run, not without some ungodly performance from their guards. And neither Rose nor Gordon did much tonight, as the C's were more aggressive in pressuring them, and the Bulls bigs had to make them pay for it. Instead they put in a terrible offensive performance.
Some positives:
- Kirk Hinrich played alright
- No worries about Vinny's timeouts
- Vinny was able to follow through on his promise to play Tim Thomas
- I was able to leave early
- I got a nice red towel to wipe my ass with
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I got a nice red towel to wipe my ass with
Lucky bastard
"I want the pressure...I want it and I feed off of it. Whenever I get the ball in my hand, I calm down." Air Force One
by Belize on Apr 23, 2009 11:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Noah = STONE HANDS!
Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team.
-- Scottie Pippen
by Orlando Woolridge on Apr 23, 2009 11:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
way to post this
at the exact moment i write a 4 paragraph rambling on the last overflow thread.
basically, i thought we were badly outcoached (stunner) and i’d like to see more pick and rolls using Tyrus up top. it’s pretty clear to me that doc has decided to get all over BG and Derrick and make the other guys beat us, and I think if they leave Tyrus all alone on those pick and rolls 17 feet from the basket, he can make them pay from there. It’s clear he isn’t going to be effective working the baseline and scoring inside from there in this series, but if they leave him all alone from 17 feet he can either hit that jumper or use his speed and athleticism to (hopefully) get around the celts bigs and make an easier shot for himself inside than he would get from the baseline and (again, hopefully) draw some fouls on those drives
by Calogero on Apr 23, 2009 11:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
like, for instance
on the only highlight of the game, his huge dunk to put them down 4-3
by Calogero on Apr 23, 2009 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two thoughts on VDN
I was at the game and noticed that in the 3rd quarter, two timeouts in a row Vinny and the assistants were standing in the middle of the court away from the team…so is Lindsey Hunter drawing up plays now? Did they show this or comment on TV?
At least nobody can complain he did not play Tyrus enough tonight. What was up with TT being out there with the scrubs through the end of the game?
by jmogs on Apr 23, 2009 11:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Vinny always plays Tyrus with the scrubs
It’s his way of screwing with his head
Joakim Noah: Better than you.
by Prevenge on Apr 23, 2009 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's always been a pet peeve of mine when coaches do that.
Is it too much to ask they know what they want to say when they call the time out?
Say what you want about Skiles, but I never saw him pull that shit.
by Sports2 on Apr 24, 2009 7:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, on this question:
Went to my first live NBA game in March and noticed that, when the timeout was called, both groups of coaches stood approximately at the free throw line for a good 30-45 seconds before addressing the team.
Is this normal?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Apr 24, 2009 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes... I've seen lots of coaches do it
So I’d say it’s normal. But I don’t see it as a very good practice.
Guys I’ve seen doing it:
Terry Stotts, Bill Cartwright, Vinnie
Guys I’ve seen not doing it:
Doug Collins, Jerry Sloan, Scott Skiles
Guys I’ve seen do it both ways:
Phil Jackson
If we want to get a little more complex in thinking about it, I do think it’s probably a little bit situationally dependent. What kills me is when I see the coaches drawing up plays and animatedly talking it over. This indicates to me that they either have to stop the action to think about what to do (they can’t think fast enough), and/or they’re calling the timeout without really knowing what they want to say.
I can imagine a situation where you’d want to call time to give your guys a breather or, in the case of a veteran team, to collect their thoughts and then talk to them. But it seems like those are the minority of cases.
by Sports2 on Apr 24, 2009 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting. My cousin and I had just never noticed it before and thought it was weird.
Thanks for clarifying it.
The regularity with which both Spoelstra and Del Negro did it made us briefly wonder if it were mandatory, despite having never seen it before.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Apr 24, 2009 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doc Rivers does it too
just FYI
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
by Jeff Clark on Apr 24, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not in this game
He was in the huddle most of the time.
by silentpete on Apr 24, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Skiles did it
all the time. He still does it.
by sue369 on Apr 24, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're right...
…I was getting ready to say the same thing. I remember Skiles doing it a bunch of times.
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
by NormVanBeer on Apr 24, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He pulled Tyrus for almost a full quarter after he got that tech.
And left Tim Thomas out there sucking…then Vinny went small and put Salmons at the four…
IMO, Vinny was punishing Tyrus by putting him out there at the end…there is no reason a starter should be treated like that by his idiot coach.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Apr 24, 2009 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
KIRK HINRICH FOR THREE!!!!!!!!!
i couldnt even get excited for that…..DAMN YOU VDN!!!!! DAMN YOU BULLS!!!!!!!!!!!!
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Apr 23, 2009 11:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
it wasn't all his fault
individual performances tonight were just horrendous, but vinny didn’t do anything to adjust to the way Boston was playing. The blame belongs to everyone on this team tonight.
by aznsensation on Apr 23, 2009 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
...and Rondo has been the best player in this series by a huge margin
by jmogs on Apr 23, 2009 11:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
for some sick reason I scanned the gamethreads
biggest d-bag of the night: gocubs40. You sir, sucked almost as much as the Bulls in your performance tonight.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2009 11:32 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
that is sick...
that’s like rubbing salt into your own wound
by aznsensation on Apr 23, 2009 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he usually does not contribute anything to the conversation in game threads besides d-baggery.
i avoided the game threads tonight and went to BDL’s live blog. I made fun of Celtics fans, it was fun.
Fire Vinny.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 23, 2009 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you banned him then? haha, i was banned at celtics blog cause i said noah was the caucasian kg
when they were ripping noah’s appearance.
Derrick Rose: Point GOD
by Juan dela Cruz on Apr 23, 2009 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no he's not banned.
warned, informally.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2009 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw what you did on Celticsblog
they were right to ban you, you were being a dumbass
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2009 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and you're not a Celtics fan...
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2009 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I went over to CelticsBlog
to curse at VDN and congratulate them :P
It was … nice.
Joakim Noah: Better than you.
by Prevenge on Apr 23, 2009 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks
we always appreciate good posters from other teams
we enjoyed the win a great deal – but regardless of what happens, you guys have a special player in D. Rose and a lot to be hopeful for in the future
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
by Jeff Clark on Apr 24, 2009 7:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What Jeff said
Above me :P
- Dirk 'DaarisDirk' van Boxtel
by Kiorrik on Apr 24, 2009 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hahaha
Derrick Rose: Point GOD
by Juan dela Cruz on Apr 24, 2009 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hahaha
going into Bulls playoff lock down..now!
by SoulEater7 on Apr 24, 2009 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I ment
I saw what you did on Celticsblog
they were right to ban you, you were being a dumbass
lol
going into Bulls playoff lock down..now!
by SoulEater7 on Apr 24, 2009 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I take partial blame
I did open the door to comments about appearance, but tossing race into the issue really just adds gas to the fire
no hard feelings though
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
by Jeff Clark on Apr 24, 2009 7:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hes had a firm grip on that award for just about everygame.
i might take pride in it
by Gen on Apr 24, 2009 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question, do you think the players are upset at Vinny over game 2?
I mean there has to be some kinda rift if the fans can see it. Has Vinny lost them?I know Tyrus has checked out mentally but I wonder if others are following. They looked so bad it makes you wonder how they lost that hungry fight. They looked so blah.
going into Bulls playoff lock down..now!
by SoulEater7 on Apr 23, 2009 11:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
They've known Vinny's pretty useless for a while now
they’re playing for themselves. I don’t blame that for tonight.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 23, 2009 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well Vinny was oddly calm during the beat down in the first half.
Almost as if he received a talking to by management to save the timeouts. Vinny always calls a quick one to settle them down. Vinny looked somewhat reserved on TV it was just a strange game to me.
going into Bulls playoff lock down..now!
by SoulEater7 on Apr 23, 2009 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he was, thinking, thats why
Derrick Rose: Point GOD
by Juan dela Cruz on Apr 23, 2009 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matt you are right, this was a disheartening loss, you knew this was coming,
their defense woke up, pierce woke up, the only consolation we got, was rondo limping out of the playing court at the end of the game, but still, our defense sucks, too much turnovers tonight, they just plain kicked our asses.. and this was shittening. :
Derrick Rose: Point GOD
by Juan dela Cruz on Apr 23, 2009 11:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
why did you have to say this?
“Nearly everyone was awful, but I was really dissapointed in Tyrus and Noah. They looked so overmatched physically tonight it’s enough to question their long term viability as a tandem. It was that bad. So many times they fumbled passes, or got stripped, or were pushed out of the paint. By a decimated Celtics front line.”
I was so high on them like 5 hours ago…
by LoveForTheGame on Apr 23, 2009 11:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
and when you lose confidence in one of our young players...
that’s saying something
by LoveForTheGame on Apr 23, 2009 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had some of the same thoughts.
But not with Noah. I think he works hard and he does have a pretty good Basketball IQ. I think I might finally be souring on Tyrus because Im not sure he’ll ever understand until it’s way too late.
I would like to see them after getting stronger physically but it may be too late for Tyrus. I wouldn’t give up on Noah.
going into Bulls playoff lock down..now!
by SoulEater7 on Apr 23, 2009 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow I said the same thing twice.
sorry rough night.
going into Bulls playoff lock down..now!
by SoulEater7 on Apr 23, 2009 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I left here at the end of the 1st
people offering their opinions when they’re pissed, and when I’m pissed, while the team I follow is getting their ass completely handed to them makes me frustrated as hell. More frustrated when people put fucking secret sauce on my burgers. I’m sure I’m not the only one here who feels the same
by NittanyCub on Apr 23, 2009 11:57 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
OT
put on lakers/utah game asap
"I want the pressure...I want it and I feed off of it. Whenever I get the ball in my hand, I calm down." Air Force One
by Belize on Apr 24, 2009 12:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
ok
going into Bulls playoff lock down..now!
by SoulEater7 on Apr 24, 2009 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lets watch Kobe be like Mike.
going into Bulls playoff lock down..now!
by SoulEater7 on Apr 24, 2009 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
major failure
"I want the pressure...I want it and I feed off of it. Whenever I get the ball in my hand, I calm down." Air Force One
by Belize on Apr 24, 2009 12:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't believe
Ronnie/y Brewer implied guarding Kobe is harder than guarding MJ too
by Camry on Apr 24, 2009 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who would he know?
going into Bulls playoff lock down..now!
by SoulEater7 on Apr 24, 2009 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
damn it!
how would he know? i was watching tv and typing.
going into Bulls playoff lock down..now!
by SoulEater7 on Apr 24, 2009 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He doesn't
but all these guys think the best that ever was is always in the present.
And I’m just tired of everyone underestimating guys who have been there and done that 1000x better than the top players who are out today.
by Camry on Apr 24, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wanted Utah to take this series
Deron Williams is in my top two of favorite point guards.
by aznsensation on Apr 24, 2009 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Groin or no groin, this series is highlighting all of of Salmons' flaws.
The flaws that kept me off the bandwagon, despite the great scoring efficiency, and hoping for a return by Deng. Stopping the ball on offense to go 1 on 1. Continuing to go 1 on 1 against Pierce when the outcome has consistently been terrible. His lack of any contribution to team defense, especially rebounding. A decent job on Pierce isn’t enough by itself.
Tyrus, Noah, and Miller have clearly had their issues, but Rose, Gordon, and Salmons getting beat to every loose ball and killed on the defensive glass isn’t making things any easier the last two games. The last two games I’ve actually been pissed at Vinny for not putting in Kirk soon enough. He hasn’t been very good, but he at least is aggressive on defense and will actually defensive rebound. And the guards control what happens with the bigs on offense to a large degree, and they’re not putting he bigs in positions to succeed.
by Scotter on Apr 24, 2009 12:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Scotter, I agree 100%. Whatever his flaws, Kirk at least has his head in the game and gives max effort on the defensive end.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 24, 2009 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Salmons and Miller look like completely different players.
Salmons can’t get a shot off without dribbling first. I don’t trust Miller anymore in the series. the celtics hawk him so well. He’s dying cattle in the desert.
going into Bulls playoff lock down..now!
by SoulEater7 on Apr 24, 2009 12:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Defensive effort and rebounding wasn't the issue yesterday...
In fact, I’d say effort wasn’t the issue at all. The guys cited above were in fact playing hard (at least thru 3/4 of the 3rd quarter)…they just weren’t playing smart (or poised). I’d even go as far as to say they were too fired up and needed to calm down. The Celts lead at the half were the result of (1) TOs leading to fast break opportunities/scores, (2) missed FTs, and (3) one-on-one play leading to poor % shots, which we weren’t making yesterday.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
by PeteRoc on Apr 24, 2009 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so I'm guessing that
you had your eyes closed when “Kurt” was guarding, or shall I say TRYING to guard, Marbury last night? Marbury made Hinrich look pitiful. He went around him every chance he got and almost seemed to be toying with him a couple of times. Come on…Marbury?? Yep, that’s max effort alright…
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
by NormVanBeer on Apr 24, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey! Someone agrees with me on Salmons.
I hate John Salmons.
I really, really hate the Bulls’ offensive “scheme”. It’s obvious that it’s more pick-and-pop and not pick-and-roll (it worked for Stoudemire, and it’s working for Brad Miller!!!).
When Del Negro is back next year and Gordon is gone, and Salmons isn’t on his season-long high, this is going to be one of the ugliest teams in all of basketball.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Apr 24, 2009 7:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Next season Rose will be an improved player and...
….hopefully that will offset some of what you’re talking about. In general, players of Rose’s ilk (channeling my inner Michael Wilbon with that word) make a significant leap from year one to year two.
But I agree wholeheartedly with the assessment of Salmons. I like his aggression, but lately his decision making makes Ben Gordon’s decision making look pretty good. I was explaining to my girl yesterday that I’m not comfortable with the way the ball comes to a screeching halt EVERY TIME Salmons gets it. Now it’s fine sometimes because he has the ability to create offense and that’s valuable seeing as though Del Negro runs very few sets. But he can’t stand there holding the ball for or 4 seconds every time he gets it.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 24, 2009 7:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, when he's on and no one else on the team is, it's a great boost.
I don’t deny that for a second. But when he’s not on and/or someone else on the team is, and he STILL does his “me-versus-the-world” show, it effin’ sucks.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Apr 24, 2009 8:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
watching the utah game yesterday...
it showed me that we need a more experienced coach to get the players to play more like a team instead of all the one on ones. The players on this team just have no reason to respect VDN, he’s just so inexperienced.
by aznsensation on Apr 24, 2009 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The "my-turn" offense was in full effect last night
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy
by mdmnd9294 on Apr 24, 2009 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally was
That was the players trying to do too much because of all the stupid silly turnovers….we were rushing the ball from the get go, playing nervous, sloppy and not following any of the offense we’ve been playing all series….
Ok so Vinny seems to have the X's down.....now he needs to learn the O's.
by majoyenrac on Apr 24, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, each time a Bulls player would *try* to pass the ball would lead to a turnover
anyway
by KentuckyBullsFan on Apr 24, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because they're making crap up as they go...
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy
by mdmnd9294 on Apr 24, 2009 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sounds like a pretty good 6th man to me. :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 24, 2009 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, though.
A second-line of Hinrich, Salmons and Miller would be quite good if the starters were struggling.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Apr 24, 2009 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it wouldn't be good for the Bulls balance sheet
but yeah.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 24, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, they'd have three starters on rookie deals
but yeah.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Apr 24, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
D Rose has got to stop passing into the paint where the bigs have to reach down to get it so often. Sure fire recipe for a turnover when the lane is so crowded.
Salmons actually delivered a chest high pass to Noah and he stuffed it. We need to see crisper passing otherwise the result will once again be 16 f’ng steals.
I agree that Tyrus at the baseline is a disaster. He made his share of some lummox plays but no more than the rest of the stumblers. Seeing him on the bench with his head buried in his hands indicates that the Chief Anus has managed to once again break his spirit by always singling him out and removing him first after a mistake. The message is loud and clear, “I’m in charge. I make the decisions! I don’t second guess myself! I don’t even first guess myself! So what if I have a Mussolini complex. Tyrus has to go. He just doesn’t play like a professional and I demand my players look like professionals out there, just like me with my Armani suits and $100 haircuts.”
When Tyrus is on his game he can bring the Bulls to a new level and his energy is contagious with both the fans and the players, but his confidence is fragile after being jacked around so many times during his young career. The best time to give him an opportunity to grow up would be now, in a crucial playoff series. Same for Rose. They both, along with Noah, should have been given more minutes as a learning experience which may pay future dividends, that is if there is a future with the Bulls
TT needs to attack more from the top of the key and try to draw some fouls. If he winds up with a charge so be it. Let’s see some more alley oops from Derrick. Rose looked totally out of synch (too much ROY pressure?). TT is once again playing like a deer in the headlights fearing the VinnyVan is going to roll over him out the second he screws up, because he always does. If only this would happen more often during the numerous times when Vinny’s vets are laying large rotten eggs out there.
It also doesn’t help that our feckless coaching staff appears to be unable to make any kind of meaningful adjustments that could stop the bleeding, other than pray Ben or Derrick put on superhuman efforts again (sorry DelStupido, the Celts know how to counter your thin bag of tricks, so you are once again exposed as the ultimate NBA anti-coach).
To be fair as Matt pointed out, our resident hardwood scholar was able to find time to insert the great Tim Thomas which opened up the court as he had hoped. Unfortunately it opened up for the Celtics with his complete defensivelessness and sappy shot selection. When paired with the rapidly disappearing Brad Miller, all they needed at that point was to change into clown suits with Vinny driving the lead clown car around in circles, going nowhere, because a basketball game immediately changed into a circus but nobody in the stands were laughing except for the Celts coaching staff and the now infamous braying jackass adding to the moment with his facial gyrations more suited for a freak show than on the World Champions bench.
But fear not Bulls fans. It is likely Vinny is reviewing the tape as we speak and noticing the Bulls may have an answer for game 4. Roberson was 3 for 4 including 2 3’s with a +8 , while the terrific trio of Johnson, Gray and Hunter racked up a +13 dominating the Scalabrini led Celts in the 4th quarter. Is he thinking of possible starting Linton Johnson to capture that energy he brings to the table when on the court? And few can deny that Hunter seemed much more in control than D Rose who played frantically at times. Remember, Vinny prides himself on being an innovator as well as motivator. While just last week, he moved the candy machine into his office so the players won’t try to sneak a Snickers bar past him before the game.
I guarantee whatever scheme he’ll come up with will likely surprise and confuse the Beantowners, but probably not nearly as much as the Bulls.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 24, 2009 12:22 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Don't most teams give away the shirts at the gate when they do those "See Red"-type promotions?
The Bulls were charging $25 for those goddamn shirts! What greedy bastards.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
by Big D on Apr 24, 2009 12:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
gotta collect money for BG
I remember Michael dribbling at the top of the key. Everybody knew to just get the hell out of his way. - Steve Kerr
by Yibs on Apr 24, 2009 12:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They're not going to resign BG
Joakim Noah: Better than you.
by Prevenge on Apr 24, 2009 1:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I called this.
Everyone said, “nnnnooooooooo! they’ll give them away. Just like the Celtics did. Remember KG put one on every seat? They won’t charge.”
Reinsdorf sucks.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Apr 24, 2009 7:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know
there are places that when they call for a -out, people just show up in that color, not expecting a hand out…
by torch on Apr 24, 2009 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess the comments
eats up anything you put in < > brackets.
that should read [insert color]-out
by torch on Apr 24, 2009 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a hand out?
hahahahahaha, you are something else
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Apr 24, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I kind of agree.
The prominent “make sure you wear red to the games” promotions on the website and the CSN broadcasts implied to me that people should already be wearing red when they arrive, not that they should expect to be given a red shirt at the venue.
by arjoseph on Apr 24, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the crowd expected free shirts
ok, I was sort of hoping for one.
But if you want it to look good that’s what you’d have to do. They didn’t care enough to have it look good, so neither do I.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 24, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that's it. If you actually WANT it to be a red-out, and not just a faux attempt...
…the team has to contribute, too.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Apr 24, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
People can't just come to the game in red
this isn’t really directed to anyone in particular.
I just thought they should of.
by Camry on Apr 24, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jerry Sloan looks very aged.
going into Bulls playoff lock down..now!
by SoulEater7 on Apr 24, 2009 12:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
well yeah
going into Bulls playoff lock down..now!
by SoulEater7 on Apr 24, 2009 12:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I FOUND THE ONE TO BLAME!!!
Commissioner David Stern joked before Thursday night’s Game 3 that Bulls Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf had called him the Grim Reaper because of home teams’ tendency to lose when Stern attends their playoff games.
STERN!!!!!!!!! (SHAKES FIST)
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Apr 24, 2009 1:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
bad voodoo
"I want the pressure...I want it and I feed off of it. Whenever I get the ball in my hand, I calm down." Air Force One
by Belize on Apr 24, 2009 1:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i still believe we can win this series.
rose can and will play better and the rest of the bulls will follow suit
by sin on Apr 24, 2009 2:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
A Celtic point of view
You know, I’m more scared of you guys than I am of whoever comes out of the 76ers vs Magic battle, for precisely that reason.
Rose is not only a great PG, he’s able to take over a game as well. The thing is, he has to do it, because the rest of the Bulls don’t seem to be shooting too well in these playoffs (with perhaps an exception here or there.)
Well, good luck in game 4. In a way, this series is “tied” again, with you guys having home court back advantage next game.
- Dirk 'DaarisDirk' van Boxtel
by Kiorrik on Apr 24, 2009 4:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rondo faked another injury?
He didn’t fake any injury last game, you honky, nor did he fake an injury in Game 2. I would love to see you fall awkwardly just like Rondo did in Game 2 and see how you deal with it.
In the end of Game 3, Rondo said his feet were hurting so they carried him off, but he is “fine” according to him.
by AlexC on Apr 24, 2009 5:56 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
joke's on you
I try to avoid athletics and the outdoors, so my legs are safe.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 24, 2009 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Expectations = A giant turd
That was just awful all around. Scalabrini not only played, but scored!! With his belly and headband, he looks like some guy that could score in a pickup game at the Y. I turned it off when he made a 3 from the corner. That was the ulitmate indignity.
This was like the Toronto game, in that it was a big game, a winnable game, and Bulls completely crapped all over themselves. I’m trying to be objective and not make too much out of one game, but this really concerns me about the history of the Paxson-era Bulls and the way the handle (or don’t handle) expectation.
This group does great when there are low expectations or none at all: playoffs in ‘05, ’06 under Skiles, playoffs this year, and the occassional regular season upsets. But if they are expected to acheive big things, if they can’t sneak up on anyone, they not only fail to reach the bar but do so in spectacularly bad fashion.. It seems that this team has a difficult time winning games it’s supposed to win: Philly in ‘07, the entire ’07-’08 season, swept by T-wolves this year, Toronto game, last night. The Bulls simply do not play well when they aren’t “against the world” so to speak. They bear the weight of expectation poorly.
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy
by mdmnd9294 on Apr 24, 2009 7:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
yfBB - you were *completely right* yesterday
I’m sure you would rather have been proved wrong, though.
Mmmm – crow.
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy
by mdmnd9294 on Apr 24, 2009 7:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gordon
5-13 from the field
.385
1-4 from 3 pt range
15 points
compaired to
14-24
.583
6-11
42
that’s why they call him streaky.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Apr 24, 2009 7:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
very streaky
that’s why I’m afraid of the bulls resigning him…you never know what you’re gonna get. I don’t think anybody will disagree when I say when BG is hot, he’s almost unstoppable. But when his shots aren’t going down, his flaws are just so glaring you can’t miss them. He doesn’t play defense and his hustle for rebounds isn’t there. It all breaks down into effort on both sides of the ball, he just doesn’t do it. I think I remember hearing that BG was quoted saying that he was wanting Kobe Bryant type money. That’s just ridiculous and I’d be very disappointed with the Bulls if they did this. It would almost be as bad as the contract they gave Luol Deng.
by aznsensation on Apr 24, 2009 7:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quiet as kept, Gordon has done as good a job defensively this series as any Bull has.
With the exception of the 28 pt. explosion Ray Allen had in the second half Monday, Gordon has done a decent job shadowing him. Boston was hot as a pistol in the first half yesterday and their coaching staff is masterful at making adjustments. The plays Boston runs to get Allen open are beautiful. But rarely do the Bulls run anything to get Gordon open after the initial round of screens and Boston defended that quite well last night.
Now is Gordon streaky? He has a tendency to be, but he’s undeniably the best we got and he doesn’t hurt us nearly as much as many people would lead you to believe. After all, the only difference between he and Allen last night was that Allen was 6-12 and BG was 5-13. Unfortunately though, we’ll find out the hard way when he leaves and goes to some other team where people appreciate what he brings to the table.
Honestly, do you believe that Ben Gordon would do any worse with the Celtics than Ray Allen is right now? Do you not think Gordon would be as capable a scorer for Boston if you swapped him for Allen? I argue that he’d be a more dangerous player if you put him next to Paul Pierce. So instead of worrying about getting rid of Gordon we need to worry about acquiring or developing more star level players so that we don’t depend on 40 pt games from Gordon to keep us in it.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 24, 2009 8:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never said get rid of him...
I’m just saying don’t offer him Kobe Bryant money. He’s the best scorer on the team, but I’m not gonna pay him to be one of the highest paid players in the league and only have him play on one side of the court. BG has done okay covering Ray Allen, but I’ve seen the games and see how many times Ray has been left wide open. Ray Allen just hasn’t made his wide open shots, so you can’t really just use the fg/fga statistics to say BG has done well guarding Allen. Watching the games, you can see BG doesn’t play good defense. A lot of it is probably that he doesn’t have the height to play lock down defense, but watching the games I notice he doesn’t have the effort to get back down the court during fast breaks or around screens to get to his defensive target.
by aznsensation on Apr 24, 2009 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gordon's asking for Kobe Bryant money?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Apr 24, 2009 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember hearing that somewhere on comcast sports net
i think it was in the monsters in the morning show, but I wouldn’t trust anything those radio guys say.
by aznsensation on Apr 24, 2009 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yet you stated the Bulls shouldn't do it like it was a real possibility?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Apr 24, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't put anything past paxton
he just seems like he wants to please everyone and give everybody what they want. I’m just hoping if we do resign BG that we don’t overpay him.
by aznsensation on Apr 24, 2009 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like he has the past two summers?
I can understand not trusting Pax (although I tend to go the other way), but not because he throws money around willy nilly. If that was his posture, we’d already have BG signed.
by arjoseph on Apr 24, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was Will Perdue
who said that when he was on CTL this past week. He knows BG’s agent.
by sue369 on Apr 24, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny how people only notice Ben's mistakes when a guy like....
…Kendrick Perkins drives for an uncontested layup from the top of the key. Whatever though.
I do not recall Gordon asking for Kobe money or EVER seeing anybody say he should get Kobe money.
And if they did, that would be FAR AND AWAY THE MOST ridiculous suggestion EVER. Ben Gordon is obviously not Kobe Bryant. But Gordon has proven on many occassions to be FAR more valuable than the Bulls big money players Deng ever has and I can understand his not wanting to play for less than whatever Deng and Hinrich make. I would have been fine with Gordon making Deng money and Deng getting the 7-8 million per year deal because at least BG has the ability to put himself in elite company from time to time. But Deng is so regular….so plain…and does nothing to distinguish himself. Truly, how much have the Bulls suffered since losing Deng? I would argue they’ve been better w/o him. Could we have used him here and there for some help? Of course. But he hasn’t been sorely missed. Now that’s not to say I don’t want him on the Bulls. I do, but I don’t like him at the money he’s making vs. his production.
But I know Gordon isn’t delusional to the point where he’s asking for Kobe money. I refuse to believe that. I would personally go kick his ass if he even suggested that he should get Kobe money. I think he just wanted to be the highest paid guy on this Bulls team until Derrick Rose comes up for his extension and gets a max deal.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 24, 2009 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Deng has the dog!

Maybe we can?
by Granny Waiters on Apr 25, 2009 3:16 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
vick that mut!
"I want the pressure...I want it and I feed off of it. Whenever I get the ball in my hand, I calm down." Air Force One
by Belize on Apr 25, 2009 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, if only he didn't score 42, and it was more like 22
then we wouldn’t have to call him streaky. huh?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 24, 2009 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hahaha
you can’t be streaky if you’re never (or rarely) good.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Apr 24, 2009 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so he's "never good" now?
lol…this blog is amazing
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
by NormVanBeer on Apr 24, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
tyger = sarcasm
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Apr 24, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sarcasm meter broke today
too bad of a loss last night…
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
by NormVanBeer on Apr 24, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he scored zero points
then occasionally scored 20 points he would still be streaky. Doesn’t matter how the swing comes. It still makes him streaky. His streakyness is not a bad thing for most teams but for the Bulls it is when we rely so much on his scoring.
I don’t know why you look at it as a negative; as if it is a way of putting him down. It is what he is; a streaky player but a good streaky player unlike lets say Damien Wilkins.
As for comments above about his defense I was really happy with how much effort he was putting into his defensive game.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Apr 24, 2009 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
well he's not going to average 30
so it’s either settle for streaky or get Dwayne Wade. Though I think he’s had a bad game once in a while.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 24, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then you agree with Collins?
he’s streaky.
We can talk about settleing for Ben or moving on after the summer. There will be fanshots all summer about it :(
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Apr 24, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what the hell does streaky mean?
besides that he has good games and bad games?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 24, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I think “Streaky” is practically redundant. If Gordon is streaky for having a bad shooting night then that really covers the entire league cause hes one of the best shooters in the league.
I think this is one of the times you could just look at stats to see. His FG% and 3P% are very close to Ray Allen and Reggie Miller.
Also it wasn’t just a bad shooting night I thought. No one had it going yesterday Gordon can get his own shot and did in the 3rd but no one else was able to get anything.
A lot of players or elite scorers can start a game 2-8 and finish close to 50%. Gordon really didn’t have that chance.
by Camry on Apr 24, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
consistent
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Apr 24, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nevermind.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 24, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The whole NBA is streaky then
minus a few star players. Five maybe. And even they have off nights.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Apr 24, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There may be a few "inside, all the time" guys that aren't streaky
But I agree you can make the argument about pretty much any jump shooter – it’s just which label sticks to which guy.
If you like Ben, he really lights it up and/or is instant offense. If you don’t, he’s streaky.
Someone give me some names for guards in the NBA that aren’t “streaky” and I’ll calculate the standard deviations for their fg% and ppg over the season – I’ll bet Ben’s not any more streaky than the rest.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
by wjb1492 on Apr 24, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I concede that
Ben’s success usually directly relates to wins and losses for the team so when he doesn’t shoot well we really suffer. So the reaction is stronger when he doesn’t than say toward another player who we don’t expect to shoot well or in quantity anyway. So we start marking the days he plays great or plays mediocre and label him streaky when he is actually averaging 20 pts this season while playing lots of minutes and makes a good percentage of shots. Technically he can’t be streaky.
We have Rose who is our other offensive focus on the team and he also is getting label inconsistent (aka, streaky) in his aggressiveness. I guess that is what happens when you are a game changer. When we don’t win you caused it just as much as when you caused a win.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Apr 24, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How come this team looked so tired?
The most noticeable thing to me early in the game was Salmons and Rose completely missing on a few shots and Rose, Miller, and I think it was Tyrus who repeatedly were badly short on their jumpers.
And, as others have mentioned, pretty much everyone was repeatedly beaten in situations that were a test of speed and effort.
They looked like Vinnie had made them run sprints for six hours before the game or something. Completely dead. I don’t get it.
by Sports2 on Apr 24, 2009 8:03 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think they were just deflated from getting hit in the mouth early...
Boston was just more physical and we just couldn’t keep up.
by aznsensation on Apr 24, 2009 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps
But they were really short on their shots from the first seconds on the game, before the Celts really jumped on them. And for that matter one of the nice things they showed in the first two games is they were willing to at least try and deliver a hard foul or aggressive play in response to getting knocked on their ass. Last night they just curled up, but they seemed pretty curled before the Celts did anything at all.
by Sports2 on Apr 24, 2009 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doug Collins hit on it last night as well. He talked about handling the emotion...
…of coming home for a big game and Rose receiving the R.O.Y award. The Bulls just didn’t handle it well at all. Hopefully it’s a lesson learned and they come out swinging on Sunday.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 24, 2009 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can I put that on the coaching?
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Apr 24, 2009 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To some extent yes.
You gotta have your guys ready. But we have guys new to the playoffs and others who haven’t been in a while. So in essence (with the exception of Brad Miller and Tim Thomas) we are the Baby Bulls again. Inexperience on the court and on the sidelines. I said in another post that Vinny may not have had the guys ready for this, but ulitmately the guys on the court gotta come with it. Kirk and BG know better. It’s not like they are seasoned playoff vets or anything but they have been through this before and should know better.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 24, 2009 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
1. Bulls were nervous that they were now expected to win
2. To calm those nerves, Brad Miller got half the team stoned before the game
3. Profit! Missed free throws galore
by KentuckyBullsFan on Apr 24, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
What really took the game from ‘uh oh’, to ‘oh shit’ was a Celtics run to end the 2nd quarter that put them up 22 at the half. It was as if the Bulls were waiting to regroup at halftime and forgot to play the last several minutes of the half first.
Thought the team could go into halftime down maybe 12 or 14…but it just kept getting worse.
The Bulls didn’t score their 50th point of the night until midway through the 3rd quarter.
by KentuckyBullsFan on Apr 24, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its like Mike Tyson used to say.
Everyone has a plan until they get hit in the face.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Apr 24, 2009 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love that quote!
…wisdom form the most unlikely sources.
...there's some folks that, if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
by Envy on Apr 24, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The plan, I would assume,
is not to get hit in the face.
Joakim Noah: Better than you.
by Prevenge on Apr 24, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I knew we were in trouble when we started missing all those free throws.
This team just hasn’t learned to put forth the type of effort needed at all times. I’m not saying they are dogs, but they are once again learning what it takes to win and it showed big time last night. They weren’t ready at all. That may speak bad of the preperation by Del Negro. After all, the most glaring thing to me has been how undisciplined we are at crucial times. Now I like a degree of organized chaos because to win in this league you MUST have people who can make something out of nothing and play outside of the parameters of any structured offense when it breaks down (Rose, Gordon and Salmons), but you also must have a structured offensive system that you can run to get easy baskets for people and this is when the lack of discipline comes into play for us and it kills us.
Boston got Allen open for that last look in game 2 on a structured play and Paul Pierce murdered us in the first half on the strength of just being a guy who can play outside the parameters of a structured offense. He simply went to work on us early and we never recovered. We need that balance. We have players with that ability but we don’t have the balance necessary.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 24, 2009 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a consistent low-post scorer
helps considerably to blunt offensive stagnation. That must be our #1 priority.
...there's some folks that, if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
by Envy on Apr 24, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In a pre game interview
Paxson said that in the playoffs sometimes it is best to play on the road. There are less distractions. You are stuck in your hotel room thinking about the game.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Apr 24, 2009 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Something I wonder about
If Pax thinks this, why not try to structure the home stand like you’re on the road?
For all of the goofy-ass “team building” things Vinnie did over the course of the season, why not try to keep the team together all week. Explain it to them; this is the playoffs. We live and die together. This isn’t an everyday night in your own bed. Let’s stick together, practice more, think about the game more, get them a hotel. You get to sleep in your own bed after you win.
Just a thought… I think about things like that and always end up wondering why most folks seem to dismiss those things.
by Sports2 on Apr 24, 2009 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Something like in football, huh?
That wouldn’t be a bad idea. Have them report to a Hotel the night before.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Apr 24, 2009 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it'd work, especially with the younger guys and those that were drafted by the Bulls.
Hinirch, Gordon, Deng (if he were playing), etc. But I’d wonder how much Salmons, TiT and Miller would want to do it. Maybe. I dunno.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Apr 24, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
blackhawks viewing party at Vinny's place?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 24, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
(by the way, that was me dismissing such things)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 24, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dismiss such things (team outings) too
But I don’t dismiss the possibility of team focus and discipline (for a younger team especially) in a playoff series.
Of course, the flip side is they were good at home in general this year, so maybe they counted on that.
by Sports2 on Apr 24, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Paxson would know.
Knocked down some of the biggest shots in Chicago Bulls history (4th quarter against the Lakers in 1991 @ L.A and 4th quarter against the Suns in 1993 @ Phoenix).
by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 24, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As long as the team has both BG and Salmons as starters...
…there is no hope. We can only afford a single one-on-one player at a time, and I’d rather have BG. Both of them bring the ball movement and passing to a complete standstill.
by bullsfaninbigapple on Apr 24, 2009 8:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I disagree that both can't be on the court.
But I will concede that they both must get better at moving the ball. In all honesty I can stomach Gordon holding it from time to time because he is the guy who’s most likely going to score for us. But you are right in saying that quite often the ball stops with them. I spoke of a lack of discipline in another post. There is a time for holding it and going one on one, but it can’t happen 90% of the time our wing guys get it. I believe in offensive freedom but there has to be a bit more structure than what we have. Our wing players are a gift and a curse. When Deng is playing we want him to do more (or at least I do) and be more of a threat to take pressure off other guys. But now Salmons is in there and his ability to play off the dribble makes him invaluable to us and adds a totally different dimension at the 3, but I want him to pass a bit more. There’s that balance thing again.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 24, 2009 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
even with BG and JS,
a good offensive scheme would have enough variation so that you don’t have continuous one-on-one plays. That’s a coaching issue.
...there's some folks that, if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
by Envy on Apr 24, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They seem capable of playing a team game and a one-on-one game
It becomes more evident when the team has fallen apart, but blaming guys who can play one-on-one for the fact the team has fallen apart doesn’t follow.
To me, those guys and Rose have largely been the reason we’ve had any success at all. We’ve failed largely because we across the board stank last night, because we’ve been out coached, and because our frontcourt has been largely beaten up by a couple of guys who I think most people would laugh at if you suggested trading for our guys.
by Sports2 on Apr 24, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with that.
If they had a real offense, it’d be more of a problem, but in the your-turn, my-turn offense, you need players like that. You know, real players.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Apr 24, 2009 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's more than that...
…passing is just not in their DNA. Maybe it can be improved with some coaching. But in a close game at crunch time a players natural instincts seem to take over, and passing is not a natural instinct for either of these guys. I can forgive BG somewhat b’cos he has bailed us out many times in the past in 4th quarters (though I would still prefer him as a 6th man with fewer minutes, which is unlikely). But having Salmons in at the same time is just poison.
by bullsfaninbigapple on Apr 24, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont' agree with any of that.
Gordon has passed a lot more when the team had a good system. And Johnson went from about a 15% AST% passer to a about 25-30%. A system, or having a secure contract, can make all the difference to some guys.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Apr 24, 2009 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Playcalling
would remedy that.
Oops, that presupposes PLAYHAVING!
...there's some folks that, if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
by Envy on Apr 24, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know why, but the team seems to have lost all the confidence they had
Even though the Celtics deserve credit for trapping Rose and Gordon, I think the major difference between the first two games and yesterday game was on field goal percentage. It’s not like they were defending that much better, it’s more the Bulls just kept missing shots and some easy baskets – Rose missed a tones of layups. While in the first two games the Bulls FG% was over 40% – 42.7% in the first and 50% in the second -, yesterday was only 37.5%. And we saw that coming miles away when Gordon missed the first FT of the game.
So, I’m trying to convince myself that this was just a bad game and that the next one will be better. Why? Well, because after all that natural excitement of the first two games, the Bulls are back on earth. They know that, if they want to have a chance of winning this series, they need to come out strong Sunday. And hopefully, they will. The fans deserve it after the humiliation we suffer yesterday
by bull83 on Apr 24, 2009 8:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The Bulls laid the same egg against the Raptors.
They gotta forget about this game and move on. Watch film today, then by tomorrow have this one completely out of their systems. Everybody loses in the playoffs at some point or another. The key is realizing it’s only one loss and letting it go.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 24, 2009 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like Miami did
They lost the first game by 26 and won the second by 15
by bull83 on Apr 24, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, and hopefully like SA
They’re gonna win Game 4!
Joakim Noah: Better than you.
by Prevenge on Apr 24, 2009 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They felt the pressure of winning at home - and didn't handle it
I agree that they seemed over-anxious, like they were trying too hard. Hopefully Vinny & Co. will do a better job getting them to relaxi for Sunday’s game.
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy
by mdmnd9294 on Apr 24, 2009 8:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Did anyone happen to catch Collins make coaching suggestions about...
…how to deal with Perkins in the post? I thought it was interesting. He talked about how Del Negro should wait to bring the help on Perkins because Perkins is no threat away from the basket. But since the help was coming as early as it took the pressure off Perkins to make decisions with the ball away from the basket as he was able to simply dump it off the Davis for about 3 easy baskets early on.
That was a little brief insight to how a veteran coach would subtly adjust on the fly.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 24, 2009 8:59 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Yep, real-time adjustments
better coaches make ’em.
...there's some folks that, if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
by Envy on Apr 24, 2009 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't really blame Vinny here
Guys have to come to play. We were incredibly sloppy to start the game, with needless and careless turnover after careless turnover….then we allowed them to go off. There’s little we can do. We played nervous, Derrick played like he had to prove the ROY thing….it’s hard cuz I would have sat Salmons for Hinrich 6 minutes into the 1st quarter (after John got really cold and his D wasn’t stopping the then hot Pierce). Hinrcih has a calming influence on the team when things go that sour….
But then it was a mess.
I thought Noah played really well from what I saw….I loved his energy, and that amazing pass he made when we still had a chance to Salmons was something….
Oh well, as has happened before everytime I start getting really really really ridiculously really excited about this team, a game like yesterday happens.
Still I expect us to regroup and play the way we can play by next game. I don’t think the series is down and out quite yet…..but I really hope these blowout losses are done after this year……
Ok so Vinny seems to have the X's down.....now he needs to learn the O's.
by majoyenrac on Apr 24, 2009 9:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm gonna ride wit u on this one.
I said the same thing about how ultimately players gotta play, regardless of what the coach says or does. But at the same time, Vinny is comin’ up short here too. The way they played makes me question their preperation a bit. Plus, Vinny is lacking when it comes to in game adjustments. Like the sub you suggested making.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 24, 2009 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I mean Vinny’s definitely not blameless (because I think that sub could have calmed us down, either taking Salmons out or Rose out early when both were playing flustered and not playing their games—-Hinrich is a calming player on the court)….but ultimately those guys have to come to play. I won’t blame Vinny on the preparedness for this one though, becuase I think he had us ready to play in Boston….
I think the ROY presentation and home court got to us….we showed that we need more experience yesterday…
Ok so Vinny seems to have the X's down.....now he needs to learn the O's.
by majoyenrac on Apr 24, 2009 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Salmons and Gordon were playing their games.
They just weren’t going down.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Apr 24, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
U r right.
This is exactly why we need a bit more structure to the offense. Something we can go to and get easy buckets when our scorers aren’t on the way Boston and numerous other teams in the league get their guys going and in a rhythm.
Also, can Brad Miller stop turning the ball over? It’s like something has taken over his body and makes him think he can handle the ball and drive to the basket now. I swear a person could do the “centipede” and get down the court faster than Brad Miller.
by lexdiamonds0730 on Apr 24, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I swear a person could do the "centipede" and get down the court faster than Brad Miller
Hilarious! I needed that…thanks.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
by PeteRoc on Apr 24, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
* Oops...didn't mean to block my own add-in on the Hilarious....
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
by PeteRoc on Apr 24, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right. It's good to have those guys on your team, if they can play in a team offense, too.
And Gordon has proven he can do it and thrive in it. Salmons, I don’t know enough about it.
And it really shouldn’t be, “Let’s start out with our 1-on-1, and if that doesn’t work, go to a structured offense.” It should be, “Let’s run our offense until it’s obvious nothing is working. If that’s the case, then let’s go to the 1-on-1 guys and see if they can get something started.”
And no, having the pick-and-pop as your only play is a not structured offense.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Apr 24, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Having said that....
If the pick-and-pop or pick-n-rolls featuring DRose with the ball is the only thing VDN knows, is it too much to expect a few wrinkles here and there? I mean the Celts have now seen us for three straight games. They’re at the point where they can strictly focus on what they’ve seen on tape and not expect to see anything different from us. They’re literally fine tuning their approach against us to the point where they might start winning games comfortably (even if we cut down on TOs and make our FTs).
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
by PeteRoc on Apr 24, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not convinced they really run pick-and-rolls.
I think it’s basically the Amare Stoudemire-Steve Nash offense. Unfortunately, none of the Bulls forwards are really good enough to create on their own from the FT line.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett
by tyger1147 on Apr 24, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gordon is occasionally very good at getting to the line
It’s one of the mysteries of Gordon that he sometimes does that. Last night you could see him try to get himself going when he was cold by getting in the lane a couple times. Just didn’t work.
Rose ought to be doing that too. Last night wasn’t one of his better outings, but hopefully he learned something.
by Sports2 on Apr 24, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you hit it on the head, PeteRoc
They’re literally fine tuning their approach against us
We adjust or fall.
...there's some folks that, if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
by Envy on Apr 24, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think they were
On the “my-turn-now your-turn” steroid juice yesterday….I mean there’s always shades of that in both their games….but it was unbelievable yesterday…..
Which is why I think VDN should have eitehr taken one of them out or Rose out early to calm the team down with “Kurt”…..
But ultimately all the guys have to play.
Those 2 started out in the My Turn BG, now your Turn, thanks John….and then adding all the silly turnovers, it only made them worse….like “mmmmy Turn BG….thanks John” on speed by the 4 minute mark of the 1st quarter….
No ball movement, Guys were forcing the issue too much, and making silly turnovers. THen the Celtics just got their confidence rolling and showed that hey they still are a very good team….we weren’t going to win that one after we laid the goose egg early.
Ok so Vinny seems to have the X's down.....now he needs to learn the O's.
by majoyenrac on Apr 24, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still blame VDN for not having made any adjustments to force Boston's hand
At this point, Gordon and Rose are the only players who have actually broken out with big scoring nights. So what has Boston done in response….since game 2, the Celts do a much better job of bracketing DRose on pick n rolls, so he doesn’t have an angle to come around it. You’ll notice that on our first FG last night, TT got a slip throug pass on such a play and had a nice dunk. Unfortunately for us, this defensive approach is an attempt to take the play making responsiblity out of DRose’s hands and put the burden on the bigs to have proper spacing to receive the pass and then make the right decisions when they get it. Our bigs are usually so intent on setting the pick for DRose that they’re missing an opportunity to use their speed and quickness to get those slip through passes and attack the defense themselves. This is where a good coach finds a way to make the defense pay for essentially sacrificing an extra defender to prevent DRose from penetrating.
As for Gordon…after that game 2 barrage, the Celts bigs have been better at helping when he comes off a screens or pick n rolls situations. Not to the point where they are literally trapping him, but enough that he’s always having to come further away from the basket to receive a pass or come around the pick. Again, when their bigs are helping like this, it means our bigs have an opportunity to make themselves available for quick passes or cuts to the basket.
Given the consensus that the team played selfishly last night….maybe this was a case of the guards trying to do too much and not making the pass. I’d normally re-watch the game, but I’d just rather pretend that last night’s debacle never happened and move on. On the other hand, I’d at least expect VDN to mix up the pick n rolls so that they’re occasionally run with just the guards….say DRose and Gordon (or any combination of DRose/Gordon/Kirk). At least do something to try to combat what the Celts are doing.
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." - Michael Jordan
by PeteRoc on Apr 24, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I tend to rewatch occasionally, at least segments….and that Rose to T2 play to start it off was nifty…..
But yesterday was terrible. I think the big thing was the stupid unprovoked turnovers got us in a big whole….then the my turn thing took over.
Like I said, I would have tried Kirk then….but we waited a bit too long and guys were like “I’m getting us back”….it was a little late.
Ultimately though it’s hard to completely blame the coach. We didn’t have it from the onset, and I think our guys played like Nervous Nellies….
Ok so Vinny seems to have the X's down.....now he needs to learn the O's.
by majoyenrac on Apr 24, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here comes the 'no excuses but here's an excuse' train
Sam:
I hated to hear Del Negro talking about the Bulls as a young team again. I thought we were done with that, especially with the additions of John Salmons and Brad Miller.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 24, 2009 10:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I don't get why they still say that
Gordon-Kirk-Miller-Salmons-Thomas-Lindsey.
And everyone tries to minimize Tyrus going to the post season but I suppose he is young.
But the defense of him running out of a timeout doesn’t make much sense to me.
by Camry on Apr 24, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, the starting lineup is relatively young.
Our starting 5 have played 42:39 minutes together in the series and are -24 to show for it. And only -11 of that (as a full starting lineup) is from yesterday’s game (in 11:42). And I do think it’s reasonable to point out that a team with 3 starters having no or very little playoff experience are likely to struggle at times, especially when you throw in the head coach with no playoff coaching experience. Sometimes an “excuse” is a legitimate explanation.
On the other hand, subbing out Tyrus for Brad actually made for a worse lineup (-14 in only 6:13) yesterday. So now you have to break out the “last legs” excuse, too….
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
by wjb1492 on Apr 24, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're too old and too young,
Benjamin Button returning to the womb.
Joakim Noah: Better than you.
by Prevenge on Apr 24, 2009 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
optimism?
So maybe a return-the-favor blowout?
Don’t hurt yourself there, Matt
"...Lies, damned lies, and statistics."
by Teri on Apr 24, 2009 11:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
this game is
over.
game 1 – a bait
game 2 – a bait
game 3 – now they know the bulls, they already figured it out how to defend Gordon and Rose at the same time.
game 4 – remember how the trojans were butchered when the greeks outsmarted them with the trojan horse?
game 5 – the youth of the bulls will kill them. playing with pressure, with lack of experience, lack of good executions, heck don’t have good plays, heck more don’t have a defensive scheme..
it’s over guys..
by Aiafati on Apr 24, 2009 12:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
and the Trojan horse is...
...there's some folks that, if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
by Envy on Apr 24, 2009 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah-so!
...there's some folks that, if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
by Envy on Apr 24, 2009 3:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
it would be nice if we had the March edition of John Salmons...
without that reliable 3rd scoring option there’s just way too much pressure on Gordon and Rose to play an almost perfect game. it seriously looks like they’re giving him vicodins for that groin injury DURING the game. his movements on the court lack any sort of precision or athleticism whatsoever; it’s like watching a marionette in slowmo replay.
i’m predicting a first round rematch with the C’s next year in the 3-6 matchup with a (hopefully) healthy Chicago squad in which revenge will be had by our Bulls
by Daniel Satan on Apr 24, 2009 4:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I hope you mean we're the 3.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 24, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i hope you're being sarcastic
i’m sorry but there’s NO CHANCE the Bulls finish next season as the 3-seed cuz that would mean they won the division over Cleveland.
i’ll let that one breathe a little just so you can digest how preposterous of a scenario a Bulls 3-seed would be.
ok, next order of business is the Celtics. they will easily be the winners of their division again next year, so that automatically puts them in the top-4. i mean, they won 62 games with their best player missing a third of the season and you just know Ainge is gonna add another piece since last year could be their last shot at another ring. combine all that with a finally healthy garnett and i wouldn’t be surprised if they win 60 again. that doesn’t sound like a 6th seed to me.
by Daniel Satan on Apr 24, 2009 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how do you know Garnett will fully recover?
How do you know Ainge will be able to make moves? the Bulls could still get a 3 seed even if cleveland was a 1 seed. Your post failed in a number of ways. I mean you are predicting a 1st round match up 1 year away. Calm down Nostradomus
by Basketball Smurf on Apr 25, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
my point is that 6th seed next year isn't good enough.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 25, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
*meant to say next year in reference to ainge adding another piece
and i guess technically if the Bulls finish 2nd in the central and still somehow have more wins than Orlando and Boston, who i think will combine for about 125 wins, then the Bulls would then have the 3-seed. but even still, i hope you were being sarcastic
by Daniel Satan on Apr 24, 2009 7:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No matter what happens this series
Boston’s window is closing/closed. KG may be, for all practical purposes, done. Ray Allen can’t last much longer and Pierce is getting close as well. They have Rondo, but no other assets. What is Ainge going to use to make a move? I wouldn’t be surprised if they win 50-55 next year.
by JeffD on Apr 24, 2009 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what would indicate that ray allen can't last much longer?
if anything, he’s proving to be even BETTER than he was last season when he played hurt half the year. he’s basically a more efficient ben gordon and i think he can play at least another 3 years at a very high level
and even if pierce is “getting close”, he’s still among the best players in the entire league.
so if their window is supposedly closing and you still have them pencilled in for 55 wins, then it sounds to me like they would still have as good a chance as anybody to win the title next year
by Daniel Satan on Apr 26, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just finished the Magic/76ers game.
And that, Vinny, is why you keep a damn time out for the end of the game. Even a stupid coach knows this.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Apr 24, 2009 9:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Which stupid coach
oh wait it doesn’t matter I suppose
by Camry on Apr 25, 2009 2:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry, but...
…“Anyone who thinks it’s better to be a lottery team than a first round loser hasn’t been to a playoff game.” followed by “I got a nice red towel to wipe my ass with” still makes me laugh
by lovedabulls on Apr 24, 2009 10:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
you don't get towels for being in the lottery!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 25, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Winning is a funny thing.
One week your old the next you’re a juggernaut. One weekend your the talk of the NBA and then back to a very talented rookie. You’re just as good as your last game. Winning can change so many things. It really is one game at a time.
going into Bulls playoff lock down..now!
by SoulEater7 on Apr 25, 2009 1:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I haven't watched a minute of the Philly/Orlando series
But the Magic have the DPOY, and they’re losing 2-1 to a team that can’t shoot jumpers? Man, I wish the Bulls knew how to beat the Raptors.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 25, 2009 11:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking the same thing.
But then again Philly has a coach who, despite numerous other faults, knows how to save a time out for the end of the game. We’d probably find ways of losing to Orlando too if a game was close like that.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Apr 25, 2009 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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