Interesting bloggers take on Rajon Rondo's defense

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 17, 2009 5:15 PM CDT Comment 80 comments

Not once, but twice:

Rajon Rondo is the most important proponent to Boston’s chances of cutting off Chicago’s penetration effectively. Our third-year point guard is known for making spectacular defensive plays, but he is also known as a guy that has the tendency to get caught up in the gambling game at times. In this series, Rondo needs to make sure he uses his tremendous gifts of speed and anticipation to his advantage, by staying in front of his man as opposed to attempting to create the “home run” fast break opportunity.

CelticsHub:

Rose scares me. I think Rondo is a very good defensive player, but I think his ability to keep quick guards in front of him is a little over-rated — it’s why he resorts to trying to poke the ball away from behind so often.

Go Derrick Go.

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::smiles::

Fire Vinny.

by fundamentallysound on Apr 17, 2009 5:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

add a third to the contingent of like-minded green thinkers

I’m right on board with RA and Celtics Hub.

That’s not to say that Rondo doesn’t do certain things very well defensively or that there is someone I’d clearly prefer on that side of the floor at that position – but I’m in agreement that his individual coverage occasionally gets too much credit, possibly because people look at his speed and length and presume that he must be a lockdown one-on-one defender.

-sw

The best of the 2008-09 Boston Celtics is still yet to come. Believe.

by Steve Weinman on Apr 17, 2009 5:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Team Defense

Rondo is thought of as a good defender because he had KG behiend him. If any PG knows that KG is waiting to clog the lane if their guy gets by then they can be risky and try for steals.

I don’t think how Rondo guards Derrick tommorrow matters. I think how the Celtics guard the pick and roll as a team matters. If big baby or Perkins doesn’t show enought on the pick then Derrick will get to the rim. If Doc tells Rondo to go under then Derrick has to make his 18fters.

Will the Celtics rotate well to the corners once Derrick beats somone on the dribble? If not Salmons and Ben will have wide open threes. Toronto Wed. night did a great job of rotating and shutting down Bulls wide open 3s.

The Celtics play great team defense( not as great without Garnett) but they are still rotate 100Xs better than the Bulls do because they are coached defensivly by Tom Thibadeau and Bulls coached by VInny.

by Jscho316 on Apr 17, 2009 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

agree 100%

Rondo is a good defender by himself, but when you put a stalwart like Garnett behind him, he becomes superb – as would anyone. The amazing thing about the Celtics’ defense is that, aside from KG and Rondo, they’re not tremendous individual defenders. Pierce and Allen are below average, and Perkins is average. But man, they absolutely buy into the team concept, and they work their tails to put into practice what a pretty brilliant tactician (Thibs) dreams up. The loss of Garnett doesn’t change that one bit.

I love Rose, and think he’ll be an all-star next season. But might be a rough series for him. And having said that, I’ll be totally disheartened when it is!

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on Apr 17, 2009 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I second that emotion

It echoes what I said on the Boston blog two days ago.

...there's some folks that, if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.

by Envy on Apr 20, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Very interesrting

I’ve heard that sort of thing as well. Realistically though, with all the current rules in place, isn’t it a near impossibility to keep your man in front of you all the time? Particularly when he’s as fast as D Rose. Which is also why I think Derrick gets somewhat of a bad rap with his defense. There’s no question he needs to get better playing the pick and roll and other aspects of team defense, but blow-bys are just part of the game when you are an NBA point guard.

Also, I think one of the most critical aspect of tomorrow’s game will be that whenever Rondo pressures Rose near half court, or at the top of the circle (and he will do it a lot) Derrick HAS TO make him pay. As soon as he gets too close for comfort, instead of just trying to weakly shield him off and prevent the turnover, he needs to turn on the jets and burn his little Keebler Elf looking ass.

"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro

by Juiceboxjerry on Apr 17, 2009 6:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

People talk about Rose’s D like he’s Nash or something. Being a rookie combined with the fact that it’s a impossible task to stay in front of quick guards like Rondo and Harris makes him look a little worse than he is. Look at CP3 or Deron against quick PGs. They also let guys drive straight past them.

I’m more concerned about Derrick’s off the ball D though

My greatest enemy is my inner me

by TheCool1 on Apr 17, 2009 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also, didn't Boston bring in Cassell last year because they were worried about Rondo's D

vs Billups?

My greatest enemy is my inner me

by TheCool1 on Apr 17, 2009 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hell no

They brought Cassell in as veteran insurance because there was a popular perception that Rondo would struggle in the bright lights of playoff basketball, and Cassell has a good playoff reputation.

That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT

by Ozzie Montana on Apr 17, 2009 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No they brought in Cassell because Eddie House can't dribble and they wanted someone

to be able to get the ball past half-court when the Pistons, Lakers, etc. pressed in the back court when Rondo was sitting.

Fire Vinny.

by fundamentallysound on Apr 17, 2009 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I distinctively remember everyone saying how they needed a big guard

in anticipation for a Celtics-Pistons series. Yeah, it also had to do with a lack of a good backup, but they were pressing concerns about Rondo guarding Chauncey in the postseason

My greatest enemy is my inner me

by TheCool1 on Apr 17, 2009 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Even if everyone said it - it doesn't make it so.

Rondo is a big guard. Look at his wingspan – it’s gigantic.

Fire Vinny.

by fundamentallysound on Apr 17, 2009 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

But Rondo got abused by Billups in their first matchup last year

Like every other PG, he struggles staying in front of big, quick guards. Great help D or not. Rondo’s never been a lockdown defender as much as he’s a good one-on-one defender who uses his length to get his hands on balls

My greatest enemy is my inner me

by TheCool1 on Apr 17, 2009 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

if Rondo's not a lockdown PG, I don't know that it exists in the league.

He’s one of the best, if not the best, overall defenders for his position. Maybe he doesn’t keep people in front of him like he should all the time, but he makes up for it in plenty of other ways.

Fire Vinny.

by fundamentallysound on Apr 17, 2009 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

With his length of course

He plays well within that defensive system. He gets a lot of deflections. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a good man to man defender. But lockdown? He wasn’t considered a lockdown defender pre-Thibodeaux for a reason. And he doesn’t get in many one-on-one situations to even warrant being considered that

My greatest enemy is my inner me

by TheCool1 on Apr 17, 2009 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Then there really is no lockdown PG in the entire league, is there?

That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT

by Ozzie Montana on Apr 17, 2009 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No..there isn't

There are good defenders, yes. But the quickness of these guards and the fact that you can’t touch any of them on the perimeter kinda makes it impossible.

Calling Rondo or anybody a lockdown defender means that they should be able to keep their man in front of them without much help D behind them, and he’s just not capable of that against good guards

My greatest enemy is my inner me

by TheCool1 on Apr 17, 2009 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the term lockdown is used in a relative sense

and because he’s one of the best perimeter defenders in the game, he’s considered a lockdown defender. But no one can truly and completely lock anyone down in the league these days, because of the rules and speed of the players on offense.

Fire Vinny.

by fundamentallysound on Apr 17, 2009 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's what I'm saying

Of course, he’s one of the best defensive guards in the league. But he also has the luxury of being able to gamble a lot with KG and Perk, etc behind him to back him up

My greatest enemy is my inner me

by TheCool1 on Apr 17, 2009 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rondo has not given Rose any problems at all.

by Bart71 on Apr 17, 2009 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rondo def has the ability to cause problems for the Bulls' guards

but there’s not a lockdown guard in the league

My greatest enemy is my inner me

by TheCool1 on Apr 17, 2009 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because he was 20 years old and a rookie?

He was always considered a premier defender.

Draftexpress.com

Defensively is where Rondo really made a name for himself as a high school player and initially in college. He has excellent lateral quickness and superbly quick and incredibly big hands. These two things together combined with his length make him a terror getting in the passing lanes, and Rondo indeed has league leading potential in this area if playing for a coach that doesn’t mind him gambling for steals on occasion. He’s extremely smart and confident in his defensive ability, and has the potential to develop into a smothering perimeter defender thanks to all of his outstanding physical attributes and the skills he already shows here. He’s not afraid to step in the lane and take a charge if the situation calls for it.

Billups was pwned in that series. Whether you’d attribute it to his primary defender is your call, I guess.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 17, 2009 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Owned?

Rondo didn’t score more than 11 points in that series

My greatest enemy is my inner me

by TheCool1 on Apr 17, 2009 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

12 actually, my bad

My greatest enemy is my inner me

by TheCool1 on Apr 17, 2009 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The amount of points Rondo scored has nothing to do with the defense he played on Billups.

Fire Vinny.

by fundamentallysound on Apr 17, 2009 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

hahahahahahaha

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 17, 2009 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

But that also doesn't say how he owned Billups either

My greatest enemy is my inner me

by TheCool1 on Apr 18, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Pistons lost?

And Billups, their best player, didn’t play that well on offense.

I don’t even know what this debate is about anymore. Derrick is not a good defender, period. You can give a list of excuses, but for most of the season he looked awful out there, there’s a reason why the numbers keep indicating that the Bulls played better when he was off the court. Rondo isn’t a “lockdown” defender, but he’s probably the most gifted defensive PG in the league other than CP3.

That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT

by Ozzie Montana on Apr 18, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree that Derrick isn't a good defender

that’s not my argument. I just said Rondo isn’t the lockdown defender he’s being made out to be. Like I said multiple times, he’s a very good defender with a knack for getting his hands on the ball, but not as great one-on-one. But he’s just as good as every other guy keeping PGs in front of him.

My greatest enemy is my inner me

by TheCool1 on Apr 18, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Which first match up?

Not the first game of the playoffs, right?

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 17, 2009 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

First game of the reg season last year

As I recall Billups exploited him in the post a lot

My greatest enemy is my inner me

by TheCool1 on Apr 17, 2009 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh, so in the first game of his second season in the NBA...

…he wasn’t able to contain one of the better offensive PG’s in the league? Gotcha.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 17, 2009 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

But we can go on and on about a 20 year old rookie getting "owned"

by one of the most efficient offenses and defenses in the league? Gotcha. And I’m sure Rondo didn’t become a lockdown guy in the span of 5 months

My greatest enemy is my inner me

by TheCool1 on Apr 18, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He got a helluva lot better, as evidenced by the results.

And yes, we can go on about it.

Was Rondo good in that single first game? No.
Was he good throughout the season in 2007-2008 and pretty good against Chauncey Billups by the end of the season? Definitely.
Is he really, really good now? Yes.

Has Rose been really good on defense for any prolonged stretch of games this season? no.

I mean, you can keep citing a single game to prove your point, or you can review all the information we have on the situation. Your choice. Ignorance or not?

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 18, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I brought up that first game to highlight the point

about the Celtics wanting Cassell to help against bigger PGs like Billups. A lot of “experts” used Billups as an big example of why Boston needed a bigger, veteran PG in the playoffs

My greatest enemy is my inner me

by TheCool1 on Apr 18, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And I'm not tryna defend Rose's D by downing Rondo

We know Rose’s D is not good. It is what it is. My point: Rondo isn’t a lockdown defender. And there’s nothing to prove otherwise

My greatest enemy is my inner me

by TheCool1 on Apr 18, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There's statistical and observational evidence...

… to show otherwise. There is nothing at all to “prove” your point. And the only thing that even supports it is your constant harping on it.

As been said throughout this thread, the talk about Cassell wasn’t for defensive purposes, but was, in fact, because they didn’t have another capable ball-handler after Rondo. It’s the same reason they picked up Stephon Marbury this year, unless you want to argue they got him, too, for his defense.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 18, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What proves that Rondo is a "lockdown" defender?

I’m sure there are tons of numbers that say he’s a really good defender, or great defender. I’m not arguing that. I completely agree with that. But lockdown? From what I’ve seen, he is not

My greatest enemy is my inner me

by TheCool1 on Apr 18, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're arguing semantics.

You apparently have an arbitrary definition of what “lockdown” is and Rondo doesn’t meet it. Tyger and I (and others) look at it in a relative sense. If someone is the best or top 3 at defending their position, I’d say that makes them lockdown.

Fire Vinny.

by fundamentallysound on Apr 18, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is there a such a thing as a lockdown defender?

It doesn’t seem like there is by your definition. You’re defining “lockdown defender” as something different than what the rest of us do.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 18, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rondo locked down Rose today

to 36 points on 19 shots. :)

Maybe we can?

by Granny Waiters on Apr 18, 2009 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You put "experts" in quotes because they're idiots.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 18, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

They also get steals, though.

And saying he’s a rookie doesn’t change how he played this year. It’s a caveat for what his potential might still be, but how he performed this year… it was not good.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 17, 2009 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

OT - I know many people here were watching the hockey game

there were a lot of comments about it in another thread. So maybe someone here knows this. Did a Chicago athlete get booed at the Hawks game last night? I thought I heard something about it, but I couldn’t figure out who they were referring to. I know it wasn’t Cutler, the place went nuts when he came out, but someone else…

"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro

by Juiceboxjerry on Apr 17, 2009 6:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I think they were talking about

Lou Pinella
But some think they were saying “Loouuuu” not boo.
And I think Hinrich and some other player got indifferent reactions. But thats all I heard.

by Camry on Apr 17, 2009 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Inreresting, I'm surprised Hinrich was at the game

"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro

by Juiceboxjerry on Apr 17, 2009 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

They showed them on the

Jumbo tron or whatever you call it.
At least thats what I read but not positive.

by Camry on Apr 17, 2009 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not too familiar wiht hockey traditions,

(if you are referring to after the OT win) but at the end of the game, i think they were announcing the top performers or something, and they announced a hawks player (cheer), a flames player (where fans booed), then havlats name, where everyone again cheered.

by smelltherosegordon on Apr 17, 2009 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yea, I saw that

I was referring to non-hockey players that were attending the game. Whether it be Cubs, Bears whatever. I just heard that one of them got booed and I was just curious who it was.

"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro

by Juiceboxjerry on Apr 17, 2009 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

from the score today

Belushi got booed during the athlete Lou Ozzie …… jumbotron thing before the game…
they also said Kirk did it and a lot of Hawks fans were asking who he was.

by Jscho316 on Apr 17, 2009 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah tons of people in my section were asking the same thing

Cutler dropped the first puck and got a monster ovation

4.2.09 - anno Cutler

by Illini0509 on Apr 18, 2009 2:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Derrick Rose is going to kill Rondos ass.....Rondo cannot keep him out of the hole..

unless the refs pull some bullshit and let Rondo foul Rose because that is the ONLY way he is stopping Rose. I went back and took a look at spongys D Rose highlights and Rondo could not hanlde him.

Rose has played well against Rondo. I think that they are going to trap Rose and double team him….otherwise he will eat Rondo up alive.

I am not worried about Rondo because Rose feeds off of that kind of thing. There are PG who get up to play against Rose, but I think Rose is going to get up for this one because the naysayers once again are doubting Rose…and Rose loves to prove doubters wrong.

Rondo is going to have his hands full and Marbury should be pissing in his pants after what happened to him the last time he guarded Rose. I would not be suprised to see Doc Rivers put a multitude of players on Rose.

Ray Allen, Eddie House and even Paul Peirce.

by Bart71 on Apr 17, 2009 9:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

so wait, you went back and looked at a

highlight reel and drew conclusions about what Rose will do against Rondo?

Here’s a thought, why not go back and look at their head to head stats?

Here they are: http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/tiny.cgi?id=PskjK

Rondo killed Derrick on the boards, stole the ball a bunch more, turned it over less, dished way more assists. Derrick had 17.9 points per 36 minutes on .54 TS%, Rondo had 15.7 points per 36 minutes on .599 TS%. Rondo killed Derrick.

Fire Vinny.

by fundamentallysound on Apr 17, 2009 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't exactly say he KILLED him

2 more rebounds per game is killing him on the boards? Rondo did have better head-to-head stats. But one was playing against the top defensive team in the league (one of the games being his 2nd as a pro) and the other played against the Bulls defense with three much better players around him. Not exactly on even terms but yes, Rondo played better.
I’m a Rondo fan, and I think he’s super important to that team, but he gets overvalued just a little sometimes

My greatest enemy is my inner me

by TheCool1 on Apr 17, 2009 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Players on winning teams will always get overvalued

It comes with the territory.

That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT

by Ozzie Montana on Apr 17, 2009 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The playoffs will change all of that.

by Bart71 on Apr 17, 2009 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I will never doubt Derrick Rose ever again. Ever.

Fire Vinny.

by fundamentallysound on Apr 18, 2009 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

Derrick Rose is a natural. The next game he may not score over 20 pts but this game

now sets the table for the rest of the series. The Celtics are afraid of what Rose MIGHT do…when a player reaches that thresh hold then he can now dictate a game by his presence on the floor.

My above statement on Rose killing Rondo was based on really the kids history. The bigger the stage the better. The more intense the more he likes it. The more he thrives in it and the more he wants it. Boston will come our hard and Rose expects it and relishes it. He will answer them back. Everyone said that Rondo would lock Rose down and I knew Rose would see that as a challenge as he saw people writing him off as Rookie of the Year or he could not lead a team or he had a shitty jumper..etc, etc, etc.

I think Derrick Rose will become one of the top defensive Point Guards in the league because he will be challenged to do so and he always rises the meet them.

If we lose this series it will not be because of Derrick Rose.

Don’t doubt him…

by Bart71 on Apr 19, 2009 3:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My apologies 1st

..but this is what I think bout Boston

They get no respect =D

It's tough to be around competitive situations . . . but I've been able to manage. I've been able to survive. (GOAT)

by Belize on Apr 18, 2009 12:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Good Ole Bill Watterson

He maybe a Wizards fan. (or no fan at all) but he would likely approve.

by Camry on Apr 18, 2009 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

replay

is there a site where i can watch/download game 1 later tonight? 12:30 is just too early

by trig on Apr 18, 2009 8:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

these guys co-founders of the Captain Obvious Fan Club?

wow, Rondo’s gonna need to be able to limit penetration and stay in front of his man? ya don’t say…
oh, and Rose scares you? holy shit. groundbreaking insight from the Celtics blahgaz

by Daniel Satan on Apr 18, 2009 10:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

A writer at the Sun-Times

(which is a CHICAGO paper!!) gave the Celtics the edge at point guard- can he be serious?!?!

… there’s a link here – http://bullbearsock.blogspot.com/

http://www.bullbearsock.blogspot.com

by jammaster2j on Apr 18, 2009 10:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

No kidding!

He might be a good defender, but Rose is excellent at offense. He is going to have to work all game to contain Rose. If Rose is on attack mode since KG isn’t guarding the paint then Rondo will have his hands full. Conversely, Rondo is only OK at offense himself. He gets better looks since their talent is spread out and people can’t spend much attention on him. Without KG there he will become more of a target. I guess we will find out what wins out.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Apr 18, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs