With KG out, it can be Tyrus and Noah's time
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 17, 2009 8:36 AM CDT
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I normally try to restrain myself from believing such silliness, but I did believe a major reason the Celtics were a bad matchup for the Bulls was because Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah would wilt against the Celtics frontcourt. Mostly just by being physically overwhelmed, but also for reasons like: getting caught up in the dirty veteran tricks they employ. And the responsibility of trying not to foul a driving Paul Pierce or Rajon Rondo. And the intimidation by braying jackass Kevin Garnett not only getting himself amped up but filling lackeys like Kendrick Perkins and Leon Powe with confidence.
The new Celtics starting frontcourt is still pretty good. Powe is actually fairly comperable to the 2009 KG offensively. Both he and Perkins are strong as hell compared to the slighter (if quicker) Thomas and Noah. They may be missing Garnett defensively but they're disciplined, active, and play within the team scheme.
But while the dropoff from KG to Powe may not be as drastic as one would think, what I really think hurts the C's is the dropoff in their frontcourt reserves. Where Powe would be is now Glen Davis and Mikki Moore, and not all role players are created equal. Davis and Moore are simply bad NBA rotation players.
And as a group, their tough big brother is gone. Maybe some of that championship confidence is too. Yet Tyrus and Noah have their burly protector in Brad Miller, who is not only far better than what the C's can bring off the bench, he's also able to hold his own in the paint if Noah and Tyrus are being beat up physically. And he doesn't take, um, 'guff', without giving it back.
So while we've seen in the past where Thomas and Noah are completely thrown off their games against Garnett, this series can provide a chance for them to finally give it to the Celtics. For Noah to crash the offensive glass instead of picking up fouls. For Thomas to force the Celtics to foul him instead of settling for a jumper while Tom Thibodeau grins.
Both have made strides this season, though it wasn't exactly a breakout campaign for either, and questions remain in terms of how they can handle themselves against the elite teams. But Noah's certainly gotten stronger (literally, even) after a bad offseason and start to the year, and Thomas keeps showing more and more reasons to even consider not trading him for Amare Stoudemire, which is more than can be said the season prior. Thomas in particular can really raise his status with a great playoff performance.
Not that we haven't seen flashes of that before. But that brings me to a major potential obstacle holding these guys back: the coach. I remember feeling heartbroken (or pissed, whatever) in 2007 when Scott Skiles abandonded Thomas in the Pistons series for 'playoff-tested' Nocioni. Tyrus had earned that rotation spot and it was taken from him just because the other guy was older and more experienced. Will the same happen with either him or Noah when it comes to Brad Miller? Tim Thomas?
Luckily this roster has a shallow roster so Noah and Tyrus will play. But I'm hoping it's a lot, and in 4th quarters. With KG out, these guys have a great chance to do damage. And they've earned the opportunity to make it happen, whether they have little playoff experience or not.
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Actually Davis and TT are oddly similar...
…in that they are inconsistant. Both players have put together nice stretches where they have made contributions this year. Obviously TT’s numbers are better; he’s playing more minutes and has more of a role on the team. And clearly TT will have a far better NBA career.
But having been forced to watch more than a few Celtics games, I am not sure labeling him a bad rotation player is correct at all.
Obviously TT’s numbers are better; he’s playing more minutes and has more of a role on the team.
and he’s way way better.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 16, 2009 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not a knock on TT...
…and not comparing their relative talent. Only noting that Davis seems to look strong in stretches—-particularly in recent weeks while KG has been out and he has gotten more floor time…
…though that does sound really familiar as I type it…
I just wouldn’t characterize him as junk.
I think you are right on with Powe. Besides having a cool name, he is strong and skilled. He will continue to be a handful for the Bulls front line.
per 82games.com
on jumpers:
Davis: 36.9%
Thomas: 35.0%
And Thomas has been at a better mark than that in the 2nd half. Can’t say if Davis has improved similarly.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 16, 2009 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Davis's jumper is really inconsistent and his form is garbage. He jumps really high and shoots
a line drive shot. If he doesn’t get really big lift on his jump, his shot clanks off the rim. Tyrus’s jumper is much smoother, and I’d expect Tyrus’s jumper to get better. Can’t say I really expect the same out of Davis.
Oh, and Davis is fat.
Fire Vinny.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 16, 2009 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Leon Powe is 6"8, so probably they can dominate him and Perkins
Perk is slow, and really doesnt have offensive moves, but then again, Pierce and Allen and Rondo can create easy ways for them to score, by putting pressure on Tyrus and Joakim by driving to the basket. And the perimiter defense of Gordon and Rose is not that good, so either way, even if KG out, we are doomed, still.
Philippine Carabao: FRIENDLIER THAN BULL
by Juan dela Cruz on Apr 16, 2009 10:40 PM CDT reply actions
It's not all about height.
Perkins is 6’10" and 280lbs…Bigger than anyone who will see the court for the Bulls. Powe is 240lbs…again bigger than Tyrus or Noah. This matters a lot inside the paint, on both sides of the ball.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
didnt perkins give us some probelsm early on
in the past game that we played the celtics… i remember him posting noah up with ease and getting easy buckets
I remember Michael dribbling at the top of the key. Everybody knew to just get the hell out of his way. - Steve Kerr
Yes he did
Noah just had to play better and game his defense to get Perkins to go where he is a weaker scoring threat and more prone to turnovers. Once he’s making a move, unless he has an easy passing lane out of the post, he’s going hard to try and score or he is turning it over on a bad pass or having it stolen from him.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Apr 17, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions
I followed Powe a lot in college and some in the pros, and the kid can flip into beastmode using upper-body strength (and incredibly long and pointy elbows) to move defenders around, and draw fouls. He also is fairly adept at making odd angled bank shots. On offense I think the Bulls have an advantage, but on defense don’t underestimate Powe. That said, his passing from the low post was never very good, and the offense should still go through Pierce and Allen.
They're after our precious bodily fluids
I cannot wait for this series. I really think we have a decent chance.
Nice win by the Blackhawks tonight at the UC. All the playoffs you want in the west side.
R.I.P. Nick Adenhart
that 'hawks game was awesome
i hope game 4(for the bulls) is like that, cus i’m goin!
Sometimes I wish we would have hired Doug Collins as our coach in the summer of 2008. Then we could have fired him and won 6 more championships!
by chibullsfan03 on Apr 16, 2009 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions
yup Sox and Hawks won!
I really think this series is HUGE for the futures of Noah and Tyrus. Specially Tyrus.
I’m about to fuck your head up with some truth!"-Kenny Powers
Bulls in 6
It's tough to be around competitive situations . . . but I've been able to manage. I've been able to survive. (GOAT)
by Belize on Apr 16, 2009 11:01 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Vinny Del Nutcase needs to remember
Which Thomas to play down the stretch, as well as Noah. Tim played waaaaay too much last night
Sometimes I wish we would have hired Doug Collins as our coach in the summer of 2008. Then we could have fired him and won 6 more championships!
What worries me is Rose guarding Rondo.
That should take energy away from Rose. But it should be interesting, maybe Kirk will get that assignment.
I’m about to fuck your head up with some truth!"-Kenny Powers
so does anyone know what's up with the schedule?
everyone says 12:30, but espn doesn’t have it on according to my dvr, but has three games 5:30, 8:00, and 10:30. the 8:00 one is mavs spurs and the other one is blazers rockets.
are they going to be showing it at 5:30 then or are they going to update their schedule?? i was going to record this game, but i’m confused now.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
Bulls.com
ESPN, they don’t always have the right listings on comcast.
I’m about to fuck your head up with some truth!"-Kenny Powers
12:30
http://www.nba.com/bulls/index_main.html
I’m about to fuck your head up with some truth!"-Kenny Powers
FYI: 12:30PM is the EST listing
Gametime is 11:30AM CST. Tipoff at about 11:41.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Apr 17, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions
damn, that would've been a bad way to start the playoffs
thanks for the heads up. :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 17, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah my cable didn't update either
I’m guessing it’s on them.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 16, 2009 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I called Comcast a few months ago when the Bulls game was on like
Comcastsportsnet 2 HD and they said sometimes with sporting events things can get lost in the shuffle for lack of better words.
I’m about to fuck your head up with some truth!"-Kenny Powers
sweep the defending champs again
I remember Michael dribbling at the top of the key. Everybody knew to just get the hell out of his way. - Steve Kerr
What the heck?
Why not? For Skiles?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Apr 17, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Celtics honored their Red by winning a chapionship last year...
Now the Bulls have a chance to honer their red by winning it this year…
by silentpete on Apr 17, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hopefully
a few fans withh showing “wearing Red” as in dressing up like Red.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Apr 17, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
It would be fitting to sweep them
And see Phil Jackson break Red’s record while Blazer fans and basketball “purists” weep all summer.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 17, 2009 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Tyrus had earned that rotation spot and it was taken from him just because the other guy was older and more experienced. Will the same happen with either him or Noah when it comes to Brad Miller? Tim Thomas?
It’s already in full throttle.
"Whenever Kirk/Ben are in together. Kirk turns into a crappy player, because he tries to freeze Gordon out of the offense." - Andrew7
Oh my lord
I was just watching NBA TV’s Eastern Conference playoff preview and they got one of those touch screens that are so popular right now. Anyway, they actually had Steve Smith and Eric Snow running the thing a’ la CNN’s John King during the presidential election. And as you may have guessed, they are no John King. Now I have a very clear idea of what it must have looked like when cavemen discovered fire. It was like watching two mentally handicapped people play Connect Four.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Apr 17, 2009 12:02 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Maybe they should play connect one?
http://bunkstrutts.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/connect-one_liver.jpg
Joakim Noah: Better than you.
by Prevenge on Apr 17, 2009 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
lol
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Apr 17, 2009 12:55 AM CDT up reply actions
I think most of the excitement for this series is because, unlike most NBA plaoff series
nobody can really say with any certainty what is gonna happen. Sure, it’s likely that the Celtics will win, but it’s nothing close to a sure thing. As a team the Bulls have made their largest improvement after we played them, and we actually beat them in that game. So it’s not out of the realm of possibility that we’ve improved to the point where we can handle them in a best of seven in that same state (no KG).
Also, if we had this exact same roster for the whole season it’s very plausible that we would be a 50 win team, which is right around where the Celtics would be with no Garnett. The only difference is that they would have done it with better coaching and a formula that is more conducive to winning in the playoffs.
One major difference between the teams os gonna be confidence. Basketball has a lot to do with that. The Celtics KNOW they can win and I don’t think the Bulls have any clue of what will happen (especially after the Toronto debacle). And neither do we, which is what makes this so much more interesting
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
When does the playoff roster come out?
or do they not do that anymore?
I’m about to fuck your head up with some truth!"-Kenny Powers
they pick 13 players right?
….if that’s the case then i imagine out of our current roster of 15, jerome james and demarcus nelson would be the two left out. james is out for the season and we signed nelson so we could try him out during the summer……
See Red, BABY!
by iamsasquatch on Apr 17, 2009 1:04 AM CDT up reply actions
I thought 12
I guess it doesn’t really matter but I was just kinda curious.
I’m about to fuck your head up with some truth!"-Kenny Powers
Once again WfBB is demonstrating his lack of objectivity when he states
that the major obstacle holding back our young bigs is “da coach.”
Lets look at the facts. Granted Tim Thomas and Miller played the entire 4th quarter, but I’m sure Vinny wanted ot take advantage of their veteran savvy and experience in crunch time during such an important game. The results speak for themselves.
Noah was 8 for 11 (.728) in FG’s and 1 of 1 from the charity stripe. He grabbed 9 rebounds including 6 OR’s. He also had 2 steals and comitted no turnovers in 31 minutes.
Brad Miller had 11 boards with 2 OR’s. He only converted 5 of 14 (.357) but added 3 assists, 2 steals and a block in 30 minutes of action with 0 turnovers.
Tyrus was 6 of 11 (.545) with 1 steal, 3 blocks and a turnover in 30 minutes. The other Thomas was 2 of 5 with 1 assist, 0 turnovers, 0 blocks, 0 steals, and 0 rebounds in 20 minutes. I’m sure if had gotten an additional 10 minutes like his namesake, he likely would have even grabbed a rebound.
Combined we have:
TT/Noah 14 of 22 (.636) FT 1-1 3 steals, 3 blocks, 17 rebounds and 1 turnover.
Brad/TiT 7 of 19 (.368) FT 4-4 2 steals, 1 block, 11 rebounds and ZERO turnovers.
So Matt don’t you think its time to rethink your biases and reconsider? Everyone knows VDN puts a high premium on Professionalism and our 2 veterans did not commit a single turnover, while our youngsters showed their immaturity under pressure by having one. Besides, I’m sure Vinny was able to evaluate the situation more clearly with the vets since they move much, much more slowly than our hyperduo.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 17, 2009 2:30 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs
I assume everyone knows these stats are from the Raptors fiasco.
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 17, 2009 2:33 AM CDT up reply actions
Isn't Matt arguing
that without KG the crap reasons for not playing Thomas and Noah just aren’t there?
TT and Noah had good statistical nights against Toronto, but we were still down about 10 points for most of the game. How many jumpers did Bosh get and take and make because the defender didn’t make him put the ball on the floor?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Apr 17, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Bosh shot 8 for 23, he wasn't the reason we lost. The reason the Bulls lost was
shooting a lower percentage than the Raps and getting crushed on the glass.
Fire Vinny.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 17, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Marion was pretty damn awesome.
The Raptors gave Bulls fits defensively. They smothered Gordon this time. Every run the Bulls tried to make the Raptors answered it.
going into Bulls playoff lock down..now!
C'mon now.
you know NBAO is part of that minority who’s eyes glaze over anytime numerals are involved. Using the word “statistic” or its variations in a derogatory way is the closest he/she will ever come to acknowledging there is any other way to looking at the game of basketball than just watching the play on the court.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
You're giving NBAO too much credit. From his / her comments lately, it's pretty clear
that not much “observing” is occurring either. It’s just bullshitting, and throwing out half-baked theories.
Fire Vinny.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 17, 2009 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure he/she does it on purpose these days.
Thinking he/she is clever and really out-witting the stat-heads.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
well, if you refuse to actually look at data and evidence, it's really hard
to be proven wrong – at least in your own head. I think this is how the Bush administration operated.
Fire Vinny.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 17, 2009 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions
happy to see the optimism...
there is no doubt in my mind the series can only be won with rose being the best player on the court and with strong showings by tyrus and noah. pretty much know what to expect from everybody else.
No doubt in my mind that Pierce is going to be the best player on the floor...
And this worries me the most. We’ve just run into a stone cold playoff killer
Matchup
And the only Bull who should guard him is the gimpy Salmons. That was a big problem in the Raptors game — noone could guard Marion. VDN even tried TT.
The only backup options are TT or Kirk and the 3 guard monster.
by El Toro de Goro on Apr 17, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions
I gotta say:
“And the intimidation by braying jackass Kevin Garnett not only getting himself amped up but filling lackeys like Kendrick Perkins and Leon Powe with confidence.”
That’s terrific writing. Looks like the Bulls post-season surge inspiried yfbb a little more than he’d like to admit, eh?
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
You hit it right on the nose
Tyrus and Noah will have a chance to shine. I really think they will. They will have fun with the playoffs. It will put them back when they were in college. Taking Noah back to his Florida days. They will feed off of that. I still think this will be a seven game series tho.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
as long as they all play their own games i'll be happy
like u said tyrus should be attacking the rim with all hes got, instead of taking jumpers. hopefully rose can keep rondo in check and really take it to him. and i hope if kirk shoots he’ll make it, but if not anything gaurd allen like he should. and if BG wants to make his last statement for a big contract this is it. as long as these guys dont come into the game like they did aganist toronto, it will be very entertaining.
I remember Michael dribbling at the top of the key. Everybody knew to just get the hell out of his way. - Steve Kerr
The most exciting matchup in this series
will be Derrick vs Rondo.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
I agree
Derrick’s defense is going to be critical to the series. I’d actually like to see some pressure in the back court after chicago basket makes.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Apr 17, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Interesting debate
I don’t know TT’s game well enough to say if he’s better than Davis or not
I will say that Davis has improved his game by leaps and bounds over the course of the year and with a larger role he’s stepped up bigtime
not sure if that will continue in the playoffs, but so far we’ve been quite happy with him over the last month or so
he’s going to make some good scratch in the offseason from someone (unless the economy really hoses him over)
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
tyrus is a hell of alot more talented than davis...
and its starting to translate. there was a reason he was a top 5 pick, and davis was a second rounder. davis is a career backup, nothing more than a future role player, thomas can be a fringe all star as soon as next year.
the raptors game was lost way, way, way before the 4th quarter.
It was lost in the 1st quarter when TT refused to guard the perimeter, Gordon was ice cold, Salmons was garbage, Rose was getting lit up on the pick and role. Noah played OK out of the starters.
That loss is on Salmons, Gordon and TT, who came out with nothing at the start.
well it's over.
Tomorrow is a new day. Bulls will get up for Boston.
going into Bulls playoff lock down..now!
Normally the team with the best player wins
and that appears to be Pierce … but can’t D-Rose take over a game or 2? Rondo can’t guard him (and he can’t guard Rondo – yet!). So maybe if we keep it close, BG catches fire … Rose can duel PP in the 4th of some of these games.
At the worst, it’s great GREAT experience for Rose.
http://bullbearsock.blogspot.com/
http://www.bullbearsock.blogspot.com
Deng
Makes you wonder, if only the Bulls had a healthy and contributing Deng right now….
Doug over at BullBeat
suggested that if we had Deng and they were without KG, that it wouldn’t be a stretch to suggest we were favored in this series
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