Bulls 91, Pistons 88: Bulls prove they're more talented than yet another Eastern Conference team
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 13, 2009 11:33 PM CDT
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PrintI was only able to half-watch this one, unfortunately, because I'd like to know how my predecieved notions (as Vinny would say) jive with only allowing 32 second-half points to the Pistons Monday night. My recently developed 3-pointers = only way to win theory didn't work out either, as they were 5-16 from behind the line.
What I did see were some great clutch baskets from Derrick Rose and Ben Gordon, Brad Millers' redass-ness allowing Tyrus and Noah to man the middle to end the game, and lots of terrible officiating. Absolutely loved that the starters were out there to finish the game, and they did the job. Hope to see it again.
Yes, I would have liked to have seen Rose initiate the Bulls final posession instead of giving it to Gordon in isolation. But luckily Prince is just not quick enough, and as a famous quote from the RealGM board goes: "Ben Gordon is a bundle of muscle and clutch. That's all he's made of. Drink BG7 energy drink, you'll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
A road win is big. A win against a pretty talented team is big. Not having to play LeBron and 3 referees is big. It's an unrecoverable problem that the Bulls are not more talented than Boston or Orlando (and not only don't have the coaching to make up for it, but only make the gap wider), but I'd rather take this group against either than what I've seen from the Pistons, Sixers, or Heat recently.
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Rose was extremely big in the 4th
despite the refs, Miller and the Pistons trying to spoil things. Big shot by BG
My greatest enemy is my inner me
I disagree about the Bulls not being as talented as Boston or Orlando
Not when they’re both at full strength of course, but in their current state, I really do. Kg is hobbled and I like BG, Rose and Samons more than Pierce, Allen and Rondo. Orlando minus Jameer just isn’t as scary. Also, Turkoglu has a sprained ankle. Like I said, both of them healthy and they are definitely superior, but as presently constituted I think it’s more of a toss-up. Of course that doesn’t make up for having this guy as our head coach.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
Yea, it would be nice to have one more solid rotation player
Like a James Posey style player a 2/3 that can relly defend and hit the occasional big three.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Apr 13, 2009 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess it depends
if you think defense is a matter of talent or effort.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 13, 2009 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Mostly effort and coaching
But then when you have naturally gifted interior defenders like Garnett or Dwight Howard, they can take a defense to the next level. Pierce and Ray Allen weren’t even considered good defensive players before KG came along to clean up after all their blow bys. Now they play on the best defense in basketball. So I think it all kinda works together.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Apr 13, 2009 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions
so, Bulls don't have that
or even close to it. So they’re not as talented.
Or not as good. I don’t know. I don’t even think your Rose/Gordon/Salmons > Pierce/Allen/Rondo works, even with you figuring KG is in a walker.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 14, 2009 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was just pointing out that it's close more than anything
But this was my homer logic: BG>Allen, Rose>Rondo, Pierce>Salmons (but somewhat close). Then I kind of like our periphery guys better than theirs. And I basically take Garnett completely out of the equation because for all we know he can walk on the court and keel over on the first play in the playoffs. He hasn’t played in forever. A lot of this is also based on Rose surpassing his regular season performance. I feel like he will take it to the next level, in which case he is more talented than any of these guys.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Apr 14, 2009 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions
The playoffs are just different.
In big games I’d still rather have Allen and Pierce. Because they have showed they can get it done, until i see how BG and Salmons are in big games then i stick with the vets. I think Rose can be better than Rondo and might be slightly better now.
Brad Miller's pump fake is still not on the scouting report?
Did you not watch the playoffs last year?
Pierce was arguably the best player in them (and yes, that includes LeBron and Kobe). I love our perimeter trio as well, but Boston’s is better. Not to mention its championship pedigree.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
I agree
but it is a year later. These guys were older players last year, another full year of wear and tear on their bodys. I don’t think we can expect Pierce to play at that level again. But yea, when he plays like he was playing last year there is no doubt who is superior.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Apr 14, 2009 12:37 AM CDT up reply actions
add the big gun factor
to their play.
the pist ons are nowhere near as good without their star player making scores easy for them.
the bulls are now better because of it.
and IF kg is not his defensive presence, then these celtics are as bad as when we kicked their asses a few weeks ago.
He was the finals MVP!
And he is not injured…how can you project anything less than another stellar post season out of Pierce?
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
Or is another season only development and experience
as it relates to the Bulls?
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
I watched the playoffs last year, and I don't remember Boston being dominant
They had a great regular season, but in the Eastern Conference playoffs, they beat:
a 37-45 Hawks team… and needed seven games
a 45-37 Cavs team… and needed seven games
a 59-23 Pistons team… and lost a game at home before winning it in six.
They won the championship, and that’s all that anyone remembers. But they weren’t dominant in the playoffs – in fact, they had to grind their way to the championship as much as any team I can remember. And now this year, with a hobbled Garnett, no James Posey, no PJ Brown, a hobbled Leon Powe, and a year older Pierce/Allen, everyone thinks their completely unbeatable? I don’t get it, and I agree completely with Juiceboxjerry. If the crappy 2008 Hawks can take a full-strength Celtics to 7, we can beat a year-older, hobbled Celtics team in 2009.
Same thing with Orlando. They were 36-10 before Jameer Nelson got hurt. Since then they’re 20-13. The Bulls record in that same timeframe? 20-13. And while the Bulls are at full-strength, the Magic are not only down Nelson, but Turkoglu is hobbled too. On top of that, the Magic have less playoff experience than the Bulls, and they rely so heavily on the three that a quarter-long cold streak gives us a chance in any game.
by YaoPau on Apr 14, 2009 1:57 AM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Great Points!!
I’m sippin the Kool-aid too. I think our own fans and local people are downgrading this Bulls team a little to much. I understand having perspective but the Bulls are aguably the second best team in the East since the All-Star break. They have a shot to win a series in these playoffs for sure.
I'd prefer Boston to Orlando at this point too,
but I think your perspective on last year is a little off. I remember Hollinger doing an analysis of that Atlanta series and basically showing it was a fluke Atlanta took it to seven (and Hollinger’s an Atlanta fan), noting that it was the “most lopsided 3-3 series ever” and that the Celtics had outscored Atlanta by over 50 points in those 6 games. He pinned it on coaching mistakes (failure to set a rotation) and Garnett’s reluctance to be the alpha dog in fourth quarters, both of which they figured out by the final series.
Anyway, it’s moot — this year’s Celts aren’t last year’s Celts. Assuming Garnett isn’t 100% and their team defense remains even a little bit mediocre (as it has been recently), I’d take that over Dwight Howard any day. Dwight (a) takes advantage of our weakness up front, and (b) minimizes Rose’s, Kirk’s, BG’s and Salmons’s ability to get to the basket, which has been one of our strengths recently.
WELL
We’re not at full strength…..Luol Deng would GREATLY help us out….though to come in and give Salmons some rest….
4-9-09: Ok, so Vinny's not great, but maybe he has a future as an assistant coach.
So now it's a mark of weakness LeBron James took you to 7 games?
Everyone is going crazy about potential upsets, but lets’ be real here. The Bulls got destroyed by the Magic twice this season, and beat them once because they shot over 60%. They got destroyed by the Celtics twice, then barely beat them at home even with no KG, Perkins, or Powe. Rondo can and probably will dominate Rose on offense, Pierce is going to be guarded by an injured Salmons, and Allen will have a much easier time scoring than Ben Gordon. It’s going to take some great play from Rose, and some stepping up by Tyrus and Noah for them to win at least 2 games.
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 14, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow a lot of negative energy here
I get it though, some people don’t want to get their hopes up and be disappointed and some are being realistic about the bulls chances, I for one have been disappointed a lot of times but I think deep inside we all want them to pull an upset, if not then why would you consider yourself a fan of the bulls right?
I am choosing though to think positively about the bulls chances, they are on a roll lately, and I hope they could ride that momentum all the way to the playoffs.
by bennydabull-A.K.A.-beniciodeltoro on Apr 15, 2009 2:49 AM CDT up reply actions
I really don't like Paul Pierce.
I kind of liked him before the championship, but after, with all the “I’m the MVP of the league” crap drove me nuts. But as much as I love the Bulls, we do not currently have anyone, ANYONE, better than Paul Pierce on our team. And to say Salmons is close is a joke. To quote Barkley, I think Kevin McHale is rolling over in his grave.
BTW, I'm not saying we don't have a chance.
I think we have a shooters chance. 9% if you believe Hollinger, but that isn’t accounting for injuries. You also have to remember that they are playing Marbury right now. Something like 20 min range and that is not a plus for the Celtics, it’s a negative. But we beat them in Chicago. I can see that happening. I could see an Atlanta type series. But if we are to advance, I think we’d have to get one in Boston quick. Preferably the first game, second minimum. Get them before they know how to stop us. How good we can really be when we are firing on all cylinders. While KG is still working himself back into the rotation and into shape. Then gain some momentum by winning at home and we have a chance. I’ll tell you this, I’m darn excited to watch. And I’m not ruling out the possibility that Rose takes a leap in the playoffs and IS better than Pierce in a game or in a series. But right now, Paul Pierce is better than anyone we have. But I like our long term outlook a whole lot more.
I hate to disagree
but unlike an Atlanta-type series, I think in order to upset a top-seeded team, the Bulls will have to win in 5 or 6 games. If we go too long our weaknesses (hey! still no post defense and we switch and go under on every screen!) will be revealed. You’re right about picking up a quick one in Boston but that’s a lot easier said than done…here’s hoping though!
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Apr 14, 2009 2:33 AM CDT up reply actions
I totally agree with you.
What I was saying is that I could see us winning the home games and losing in seven games. I thin kwe have a decent chance of that. But, if we were to actually have a chance at winning, we would have to strike right away and use the momentum to pull off wins quickly before they can expose us, just like you said.
Rondo is a beast. His defense is best in the league at his position.
BG= Allen (because of age)
Pierce ? Salmons
And that’s without Garnett stepping on the floor.
Boston won SIXTY GAMES THIS YEAR. That’s 50% more wins than the Bulls, with the latter part of the season mostly without their BEST player.
by KentuckyBullsFan on Apr 14, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Um. We've won 41 games...
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
Are you quibbling about this not being precisely right
or do you just not understand the math? 50% of 41 games is 20.5 games. 20.5 + 41 = 61.5 games. While it’s true he said 60 and not 61.5, he’s basically right — the Celtics have won about 50% more games than the Bulls. You can also say that the Bulls have won only 66% as many games as the Celtics. It all depends on your reference point. But both are right.
No, I just don't get why he thinks it is some grandiose statement.
We still won a decent number of games with key players out and a rookie coach losing a number for us. In the Eastern Conf we have won a competitive number of games. The win number between the two doesn’t bother me too much. We are getting better and going strong to the playoffs and they are getting worn down and have had an embarrassing loss recently. I am just not seeing the chasm in competition here between the two teams based on the reality of the moment.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
Well, either way, that was a weird way to respond to his post
This post would have been a much better response, I think.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Do I get out on probation, Officer?
We’ve won 41 games and had the talent to win much more. Sorta speaks for itself. We are not some team that lucked in to a few wins with some talentless players. The fluke is that we are not in Miami’s position right now. Our win number doesn’t really reflect where we are right now in comparison to where other teams are right now with their win number. We play best against good teams and we are finally getting it at the time in the season when teams want to go into the postseason strong. The gap isn’t so great with us peaking and others fading. Dallas won a lot of games the other year and then laid and egg. Take the temperature right now and we are doing pretty good.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
I doesn't speak for itself at all.
I don’t agree with you and judging from the other comments, it’s not some ringing endorsement for your position. And our win number DOES represent where we are right now. We had a tougher schedule and we were not as good. We got an easy part of the schedule and we capitalized. It is always a mistake to think of the team as being too great because we are winning so much more than earlier in the season when we have had such an easy schedule recently. Now, with that said, we have had some nice wins, especially last night in Detroit. I’m much more optimistic today than a couple weeks ago, but I’m just saying we have to include the schedule in our thoughts of how good the team is. And 60 wins is WAY MORE than 40. Way more. The Celtics have had just as many injuries as us and ours may have actually helped, as they prevented VDN from screwing the minutes up. There is no benefit, however, for Boston to start Big Baby Glen Davis over Kevin Garnett.
Question
Are we the same team as we were in the first half of the season? My point is that we have our foot in the door and we are not the same team as before. The slate is cleared off when you get into the playoffs. You either show up or not. Teams with 60 wins will still have to battle it out. If injured even more so.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
No, I think we are much better than the beginning of the year.
There were many questions. Were we as bad as last year? How long would it take for Rose to start and to be good? Would TT and Noah pan out, ever? Would VDN suck or would he gain from his veteran assistants? What team will we be? I think we have answered a lot of these questions. The most important one being that Rose is a star. That’s awesome. And VDN sucks. Not so awesome. But to your point. I think what I specifically mean to say is that I think we are a much better team right now than Detroit and Philly, even though we have very similar records. We are starting to figure things out and they are both starting to unravel. So from that perspective, I agree we are better than 41-40. But when comparing us to a 61-20 Celtics team that also had lots of injuries… Just think if KG hadn’t gone down. They might have the best record in the league and look like the defacto defending champs that everyone else was going to have to beat. Sure, with the injuries, they look vulnerable…to the Cavs, maybe to the Magic, but they still look a class above the Bulls. That’s all I’m saying.
Pierce
is like BG in his cluthness but worse (as in even more fierce in the 4th quarter). I would be deathly afraid of Pierce in the playoffs. From what I remember, he carried the offensive load for the celtics in a lot of those games. Garnett’s attitude has really rubbed off on him. Even without garnett, his spirit has been instilled in all the celtics players and they play good defense. As long as Allen/Pierce/Rondo do their share on offense it wont be much of a matchup. Lets not forget that guys like kendrick perkins, Powe, and glen davis have been tearing up the bulls all season but that might have been the gooden/noc effect.
by Sambossanova on Apr 14, 2009 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions
You're crazy if you think that BG, Rose, and Salmons
are better than Pierce, Allen, and Rondo. I don’t like the Celtics, but I’ve tremendous respect for those players. Ray Allen is what Ben Gordon is on his best day, most days. Paul Pierce is the best SF in the league not named LeBron, and Rondo is probably the 3rd best PG in the league – when you factor in how tremendous he is on the defensive end and how efficient he is on offense, even in spite of not having a jumper. He just gets to the bucket.
Fire Vinny.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 14, 2009 12:18 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Although I think you're kind of overvaluing Ray Allen, he's not that much better than BG
I would pretty much agree on your other points. Once again, I WAS NOT saying our guys are way better or something stupid like that. Just that I think the gap between the two teams has narrowed a little.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Apr 14, 2009 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions
well sure it's narrowed a bit.
Kevin Garnett might be – when healthy – the best PF alive. His only competition for the honor is Duncan and it’s so close that you’re really just splitting hairs. So it surely makes sense that not having him hurts, a lot, and the Celtics will be less talented and thus the gap will be narrowed.
Fire Vinny.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 14, 2009 12:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Well if you read my initial statement that caused all of this
you’ll see that all I was trying to say was that Orlando and Boston WITH all of their injuries are not all that much better talent wise. That was it.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Apr 14, 2009 12:42 AM CDT up reply actions
I understand that, and my point was the gap is still wider than it seemed you were
claiming, but it appears you’ve backtracked a bit from that.
There was a little homerism, no shame in that, but our trio of BG/ Rose / Salmons doesn’t compare with the Pierce / Allen / Rondo trio yet, but who cares about trios? What about the rest of the team. The trio of Bulls selected leaves out our best player over the course of the whole year, Joakim Noah. The guy’s been consistently top shelf on defense, especially man to man in the post and his offensive efficiency is fantastic – he’s a low usage guy so it’s discounted to a degree, but 10 points per36 on .587 TS% is nothing to sneeze at out of your center slot, especially when said Center is one of the league’s best offensive rebounders and a criminally underrated defender.
Fire Vinny.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 14, 2009 12:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Here is some more data. These are the new EWA stat on ESPN.com
I believe it means Estimated Wins Added. It takes how much better a player is than his counterpart and how much better he is than a scrub and then complies it into an estimated wins added to the team stat.
PG
#7 Rajon Rondo, BOS – EWA 10.5
#15 Derrick Rose, CHI – EWA 7.2
SG
#7 Ray Allen, BOS – EWA 9.8
#8 Ben Gordon, CHI - EWA 9.7
SF
#5 Paul Pierce, BOS – EWA 10.5
#8 John Salmons, CHI – EWA 8.3
PF
#8 Kevin Garnett, BOS – EWA 8.7
#27 Tyrus Thomas, CHI – EWA 4.7
C
#17 Brad Miller, CHI – EWA 6.2
#18 Joakim Noah, CHI – EWA 5.5
#34 Kendrick Perkins, BOS – 2.7
Hey look we got one position covered! But we should throw in one more since we have six. So there next player is…
#27 Eddie House, BOS – 3.3. Let’s also throw in Kirk who is 2.3 for us and Leon Powe who is 3.1 for them.
So that’s 43.9 for our top seven guys and 48.6 for Bostons top 7. Which is much better. But when you look at the three previously said to be better by Juiceboxjerry it’s 25.2 Bulls to 30.8 Celtics. That’s this year, not last year or last years finals series. But I do have to add that after looking all this up, I’m even more optimistic. They have no bench really. Marbury is a negative (-1.2 to be exact and #75 out of 77 PG – ouch!). All that to say, one good ankle sprain and we move comfortably. Now, one “Faked” injury from Pierce again and that won’t help us at all.
And while I just keep going off on this tangent seemingly by myself, here's my thoughts on Rose.
I have been pretty unhappy with Rose’s PER. It doesn’t seem right to me as far as his worth in the league. But I am more in agreement with his EWA. Chris Paul is first and has twice what Tony Parker has who is in second. Blah, Blah, Blah 3-9. Rose is #15 amongst PGs in a tier with Bibby and Ramon Sessions and just a tier below Jose Calderon, Mo Williams, Nate Robinson and Kidd. Maybe not perfect, but it sits better with what I’ve watched this year than #106 in the league and #19 amongst PG, virtually tied with Eddie House. Really? The nice thing about some of these stats is that they take the “I’d rather have him than him” out of the equation. Sure, I’s rather have Rose than any of the guys in the tier just above him (Jose, Mo, Nate Rob, Kidd, Bibby), but their contributions have been just above or par to Rose’s to their team this year, give or take. The good news is, next year, we can be debating over that fact that he clearly should have been an all-star, but was snubbed because he was only a second year player like so many others have been. Here’s the link to the EWA stats.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?sort=per&qual=true&pos=all&seasonType=2
You should never be "so sure" when presented with new (to you) information.
But you shouldn’t dismiss it either just because you’re skeptical, and it would mean you’d have to try and learn something new.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
thanks for the great response. I asked an honest question.
I’m 100% a baseball seamhead, but (for example) a large part of sabermetric DIPS theory has been discredited, much to the shock of its early adherents but much to the “duh” of most people approaching it from a scouting standpoitn.
I doubt basketball statistical anlayis (non proprietary) is anywhere near as good as baseball’s. Otherwise you’d see John Hollinger get offered a consulting position.
I doubt teams find his analysis interesting. The Rockets probably are 5 years ahead of Hollinger.
I think you mean "try to" and not "try and"
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Derrick's EWA is so high because he plays a ridiculous number of minutes
EWA = ((PER – PER-r*) x minutes)/ (67*30). EWA doesn’t even sum to team wins and doesn’t take into account defense (where Derrick has been kinda crappy this year).
PER-r = PER of a “replacement level” player. Replacement level is that of a 7th or 8th man.
Here’s the article explaining what the stat supposedly measures, but it’s a pretty rough measure and its really misleading for Hollinger to put it out as some sort of actual wins-measuring metric.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-090325
Fire Vinny.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 14, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions
see, I don't understand why they call it "replacement level"
If that’s the level of a 7th or 8th man. This stuff is misleading. In baseball “replacement level” means what is says: it’s the level of performance any team could get simply by signing a AAA player to the league minimum, a player readily available to any team at any time for a negligable cost.
A 7th or 8th man isn’t “replacement level” at all. You can’t just pickup a d-leaguer and have him step in as a solid rotation player.
Can someone enlighten me on this? What exactly defines “replacement level” to Hollinger? It should be the level of performance expected from a D-League signing. Otherwise he’s using some level of “league average”, which I don’t even know how to go about calculating considering the level of complexity on any given team.
That's the big problem with his definition of replacement player
he set the value, far,far too high. That and the fact that team EWA don’t actually sum to team wins or pythagorean wins, and that it doesn’t account for defense.
Okay, so there are a lot of problems with EWA.
Fire Vinny.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 14, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
EWA wouldn't add to team wins, though, right?
It should add up to less, since replacement level players (even a team full of Tim Thomases and Andres Nocionis) are going to win some games. I didn’t look, though. If it adds too many wins, then it’s really, really bad.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
It adds to too many wins
and the presumption Hollinger made was that a team full of replacement level players would bring 0 marginal wins. That’s a horrid assumption to make, and it leads to a lot of problems. There are a lot of other problems with the metric as well.
There’s a great discussion about it by people far more versed in this stuff than me, here. If you have the time and patience to sit down and read all of that, it’s a really interesting discussion and it was one of the ways that I realized a lot of the problems with this new “metric.”
Fire Vinny.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 14, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh wow.
One thing I noticed right away with Unrealcity’s usage of the metric was his saying that Kirk Hinrich only gives us 2.3 replacement wins as compared to other Celtics players. Possibly ones who haven’t been injured for three months, which makes the statistic applied wrong in this case.
But it’s also a bogus statistic! Greeeeat.
Joakim Noah: Better than you.
Not to mention....
Rose loves big games. LOVES THEM! I cannot wait to see what he does in the playoffs!!!
Vinny...you look confused
by Knowledge32 on Apr 14, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions
EWA is a joke. It doesn't take into account defense at all. Look at WinShares
and then divide by minutes. It’s a much better system.
Fire Vinny.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 14, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Also
this:
It takes how much better a player is than his counterpart …
is plainly not true. It doesn’t take into account counterpart performance at.EWA just takes PER multiplies by minutes and divides by a couple of arbitrary numbers and comes up Estimated Wins Added, that don’t even sum to team wins. Basketball-reference’s WinShares system is much much much better and it sums to Pythagorean Wins (estimated based on point differential – which is more accurate as a predictor of future success).
Fire Vinny.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 14, 2009 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Easier to have higher
EWA’s when your team is better and has won more….
We were a MESS until mid Feb, and even really until mid March as we acclimated the new guys and had injuries…
I think the BG and Allen is quite telling….add 20 more wins to our total….woo.
4-9-09: Ok, so Vinny's not great, but maybe he has a future as an assistant coach.
You see I'm in the process of tricking myself into believing
the Bulls are gonna win their first round series. Why can’t you people just let me live in my naive little bubble of happiness for a while?
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Apr 14, 2009 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not going to lie, I've been daydreaming about it too
and it’s certainly possible that the Bulls could steal a series, but it’s highly implausible, especially with Vinny running the show – especially if he keeps insisting on playing Brad Miller big minutes in crunch time despite the fact that Brad can’t defend in crunch time when we need stops.
He’s not bad during most of the rest of the game on defense and his offense is pretty nice, but Tyrus and Joakim need to be out there in crunch time in the 4th quarter – they are too important to the future and the present for them not be out there blocking shots, running the floor, making deflections, you know doing the things that they do – generally making life hell for the other team.
Luckily, the refs saved Vinny from himself tonight and tossed Brad out of the game – Tyrus came in and zero points were allowed to finish the game.
Fire Vinny.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 14, 2009 12:53 AM CDT up reply actions
It is strange that he keeps going to the well with Miller
I wonder what exactly he is hoping to get from him that he feels the others lack during crunch time. He must just feel that he needs Miller’s “veteran know-how” or something stupid like that. I like Brad, but it really is fun to watch Noah and Tyrus flying around, making plays at the end of games.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Apr 14, 2009 1:02 AM CDT up reply actions
I think it also comes down to deniability.
It’s ridiculous, but if you have your young guys out there and you lose, they say you were reckless and that they haven’t figured out how to play in crunch time. If you have Vets out there and you lose, nobody says anything. But we all know that A) Our best shot to win is with Noah and TT and B) Even if we lose with them out on the floor, at least they are getting experience for the future, which is way more important right now. Which leaves you with the only truly defendable action being to PLAY TT AND NOAH!
Well said!!
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy
and he likes Brad's free-throw shooting
according to TNT.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 14, 2009 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions
I remember hearing that, and shaking my head.
It makes even less sense in light of the fact that last night Tyrus (nearly an 80% FT shooter) was on the bench and Joakim (he of the spinning globe ball shot) was out there with Brad.
Fire Vinny.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 14, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Noah has been shooting much better from the FT-line lately.
Not only is his form much better, but his percentage is up, too.
3/3 last game f.e.
Yeah, this is true
In general though, I think using FT shooting as your criteria for crunch time minutes is pretty stupid.
For instance, if you can’t stop the other team or grab a defensive rebound, you won’t get a chance to be close enough where FTs will matter or get the ball to even shoot foul shots.
Brad in crunch time has been consistently exploited on defense and last night in particular he was ruddy awful rebounding the ball and turning it over.
Fire Vinny.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 14, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
no, you didn't say that.
You said with all their injuries, you disagree about the bulls not being as talented. That means you’d agree with someone that says they are as talented as those teams.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
I don't know if that's his only competition
Dirk Nowitzki can be pretty freaking phenomenal, much as folks knock on him at times, he has performed amazingly in the playoffs in opportunities over the year. KG’s got more the full package, but Dirk’s a far superior offensive player…..I’d pick KG with a gun at my head, but Dirk is in the conversation.
Let the flaggings come….thoguh not warranted at all.
4-9-09: Ok, so Vinny's not great, but maybe he has a future as an assistant coach.
Dirk is a great, great player, but he's just so far off from KG and Duncan defensively
that it takes him out the conversation, at least in my book.
Fire Vinny.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 14, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I think he warrants
a Conversation because of just how great he is offensively….but yeah gun to the head the other 2 get the first two slots over the past 10 years….
But Dirk is arguably playing to their level still and may continue to do so longer as his skills might not drop as he continues to age…..I know he’s a year or two younger than them….we’ll see.
I think he’s in the conversation, much as it’s trendy to ignore him after the Mavs collapse.
4-9-09: Ok, so Vinny's not great, but maybe he has a future as an assistant coach.
Well
I’ve got one to me head now, just for shits and giggles.
4-9-09: Ok, so Vinny's not great, but maybe he has a future as an assistant coach.
BTW
I reread that post and wasn’t trying to call you out as ignoring him…that was a more general mark on the NBA fan, sorry if it came across otherwise fundamentally sound….I know you’re fundamentally sound….
4-9-09: Ok, so Vinny's not great, but maybe he has a future as an assistant coach.
What if?
If VDN were coaching Dallas would it be Durt Nowitski?
by El Toro de Goro on Apr 14, 2009 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
Durt really came in and gave us a lot of energy. Durt was fantastic tonight…
4-9-09: Ok, so Vinny's not great, but maybe he has a future as an assistant coach.
One other thing re: BG and Ray Allen
they may not be THAT different, but Ray Allen has been just tremendous this year. He’s putting up 18 points per 36 minutes on a ridiculous TS% of .624. Ben is averaging 20.4 pp36 on .574 TS%, which is tremendous in its own right, but Ray has been just so, so efficient, and is a better defender than BG, and no, it’s not because he’s taller, it’s because he’s better coached and smarter on defense than Ben.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/tiny.cgi?id=isJZy
You can go there for the comparison of BG and Ray for this year.
They are very similar players, they are primarily scorers, and Ray is the more efficient scorer of the two. It’s like that Nike commercial, his better is better than Ben’s better.
Fire Vinny.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 14, 2009 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Ray Allen's amazing
A great shooter, a surefire hall of famer….but his role on the Celtics is far far different from BG’s and he does not have to take the brunt of the offense in the tighter situations, like BG has…..
He gets far more open looks because of the slashing of Rondo, the Pressure that KG and Pierce put on the defense…..I mean Ray’s not nearly the player he was 3-4 years ago (Though he’s still very good) but his TS% is far far far better than he’s ever been.
Insert BG on that team, and look out…..Ben’s not the old Ray Allen, but Ray’s not the young Ray Ray either…
4-9-09: Ok, so Vinny's not great, but maybe he has a future as an assistant coach.
you seem to be talking only offense. Ray Allen, in Boston, plays a LOT
better defense than Ben does here or than Ben ever has. Now, that may be coaching or it may be Ray just learning how to play defense as he matures as a player. Regardless, he’s the better player by a good bit, even at this stage, because Ray and BG are pretty close on offense (Ray still more efficient) and Ray is much better on defense.
Fire Vinny.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 14, 2009 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions
See
I don’t know. I don’t see anything too fantastic on Allen’s D game. I think he’s helped quite a bit, as we were once helped by having a true lockdown in the post defender.
I also think Ray has a much smaller offensive role on the Celtics (he’s a catch and shoot monster, but Pierce and KG and even Rondo are the guys creating his opps). Ray’s role is what we’ve long wanted Ben’s ROLE to be, but Ben is doing more on O to offset the minimal defensive +’s in Allen this year.
Ray Allen for his career, no doubt better than BG…..but Ray today isn’t quite what he was (Though still can be freaking dangerous if ever given some room), but I’d take Ben today.
Ben’s a bad team defender, is and always has been, but he’s not nearly as bad in the man to man D than given credit for….he’s not a good defender, but he’s not a dreadful defender. He’s merely slightly below avg to average. The height definicey hurts, but overall, Ben just needs to buy in more. He has some D skills…..just the effort at times is lacking.
4-9-09: Ok, so Vinny's not great, but maybe he has a future as an assistant coach.
I agree with majoyenrac
Not taking anything away from Ray Allen, I respect his game a lot, but I do believe he really benefits from having KG and Paul Pierce. Those guys command respect anywhere on the floor, and most of the time they are doubled which leaves Allen open. Put Ben Gordon in the same situation and I think he would flourish too. As for defense, Ray Allen may be a little better but not significantly better than Gordon (one on one defense).
by bennydabull-A.K.A.-beniciodeltoro on Apr 15, 2009 3:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Not the Ray Ray
Of 3 years ago or more, he was a true tried and true superstar who was underrated….but the older Ray Allen is looking better because of the collective and the fact that he’s a fantastic shooter who’s allowed to get a little more open looks.
4-9-09: Ok, so Vinny's not great, but maybe he has a future as an assistant coach.
eh?
You’re creating a straw man argument so that you don’t look foolish. Who is arguing that you’re saying the Bulls are WAY better? You said they were “as talented” and people are taking issue with that.
I disagree about the Bulls not being as talented as Boston or Orlando
That’s the equivalent of saying, “The Bulls are as talented as Boston.” Instead of saying you didn’t say something you clearly did, just say you were wrong. It’s okay. Even I do it!
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
i thought rondo was really efficient as well
but he has a 54.6 TS%, which is a little bit lower than I would have guessed.
two things:
(1) 54.6 TS% for a guy who can’t shoot is pretty impressive.
(2) He’s still a good bit more efficient than Derrick and he plays better defense.
He’s probably the best defensive PG in the league, and he’s giving you a pretty good contribution on the other end. Derrick’s defense is improving lately, but he’s nowhere near Rondo on that end, and Rondo’s probably a bit better on the offensive end at this point.
However, Derrick is much, much better than Rondo was when Rondo was a 20 year old rookie – so I think Derrick will eventually be better than Rondo.
Fire Vinny.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 14, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
oh i know rondo is better now, i wasnt arguing that.
im just saying, i thought his TS% would be higher. i know he cant shoot, but from my experience he doesnt shoot very often anyway, so i thought his deficiency wouldnt be that big a deal. i guess im wrong.
Ray Allen
WAS what BG was on his best days, except Allen was that for 95% of the time. Ben Gordon is a bit better than Allen today.
Pierce is a lot better than Salmons….though who knows what Salmons might show when the going gets tough…..Pierce has been doing this for years. I’ve never been a fan, but he’s really a HOF player (As is Allen, but modern day Allen, while still very dangerous especially because of the depth in Boston—isn’t better than BG….he is a shade below BG and gets better opportunities to perform better, as Pierce and KG definitely demand more attention than any of our guys, except Rose maybe, and Rondo demans some attention with his speed too).
4-9-09: Ok, so Vinny's not great, but maybe he has a future as an assistant coach.
i think you're greatly underestimating the defending Finals MVP...
even if Rose/BG vs. Rondo/Allen is a wash (and at this point, Rose/BG might be slightly better), there’s just no way Salmons vs. Pierce would somehow tip the scales in the Bulls’ favor, especially with the recent groin issue that’s been nagging Salmons as of late.
by Daniel Satan on Apr 14, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
hahah oh and by the way, the above comment was directed at post #2 in this entire thread...
little did i realize, that the amount of replies to that comment alone was about 75-deep. so looks like i got a lot of reading to do
by Daniel Satan on Apr 14, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I disagree about us not being as "talented" either
I think we’ve got the pure talent to compete with any team in this league, but I don’t think our guys are quite ready to compete yet. 2 years, Thomas-Noah-Rose are really going to be something…
4-9-09: Ok, so Vinny's not great, but maybe he has a future as an assistant coach.
That quote is priceless
welcome back to the fanclub sir!
It's tough to be around competitive situations . . . but I've been able to manage. I've been able to survive. (GOAT)
ha!
you’ll grow a pair of balls on your balls."
I’m not worried about Lebron and the three refs as I am avoiding to listen to Mike Tirico do this with no pants on…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=—6U4KSnRnY
Brad Miller's pump fake is still not on the scouting report?
hahah yea and don't forget the latest Tirico thing he does now..
when LeBron does one of those hilight reel plays, Tirico now goes all “street” on the broadcast and starts doin the high-pitched “oooHOOhoooweee” and stuff to that effect.
by Daniel Satan on Apr 14, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
today the bulls defensive effort
was there. and this was a playoff type game. bad ref calls and muggings included. Rose just took over when needed
Has anyone heard anything on the Gary Payton bungee jumping front?
For some strange reason I was really looking forward to seeing if he would follow through on that.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
like I said before
only interested if there’s no bungee cord.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 14, 2009 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
lol
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Apr 14, 2009 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions
GP is the man, i don't know why people hate on him so much
seems to me like he’s perceived almost like a T.O.-type primadonna, when in reality he’s just the shit
by Daniel Satan on Apr 14, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions
you want T.O. giving you football analysis too?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 14, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Um, he is a giant prima donna
The guy is pretty self-absorbed. Do you remember him destroying Rajon Rondo for riding the Big 3’s coattails, while he never made a peep about how D-Wade and Shaq got his sorry ass a ring?
That Steve Nash is exactly the same as Kirk Hinrich, but worse.
by NBA Observer on Apr 8, 2009 12:23 PM CDT
by Ozzie Montana on Apr 14, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
his dome wouldnt allow it
gravity =D
It's tough to be around competitive situations . . . but I've been able to manage. I've been able to survive. (GOAT)
shamsports refers to it
and also the new entry on the blog there is about the bulls name that tune, pretty funny.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
Between his yapping
and Eric Snow wearing those creepy Rose-colored-glasses last night ::shiver:: I think NBATV has to do a little better….
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
Is anyone else concerned about the Bulls rebounding?
I don’t know if it’s like road games or what but they seemed to be giving a lot of rebounds up to the Pistons for second chance opportunities. Come playoffs he have to clean that up. Maybe it was just one of those nights.
Brad Miller's pump fake is still not on the scouting report?
Yea, defensive rebounding is a concern
I think we’re actually in the top 5 or 10 in offensive rebounding. Noah’s gotten a little better on that front, but Tyrus has a lot of room to improve.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Apr 14, 2009 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions
We rebound the ball very well on the offensive end, but we also give up a lot of offensive rebounds
on the other end. The Bulls defensive rebounding needs to improve on the road… a lot.
Fire Vinny.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 14, 2009 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions
yes because thats how blowouts happen against good teams like Orlando.
They won’t miss the shots the Pistons did tonight.
Brad Miller's pump fake is still not on the scouting report?
fo sho.
did I really just say that? Why, yes I did. I hate myself.
Fire Vinny.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 14, 2009 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions
there's a sure-fire way to fix that
small-ball :-)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 14, 2009 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions
in the 4th i was mad at Tyrus
its hard to find negatives on a night the Bulls win because of end of the game defense ( or lack of Detroit offense) but Tyrus in the 2nd half showed he is still Tyrus.
Problem 1- Your Tyrus Thomas the nba refs don’t care if you don’t get fouls. After he was mad at two non calls on offense he rammed into a Piston in the backcourt for a flagerent causing Vinnny to hold him out for big mins in the 4th.
Problem 2- In crunch time the Bulls were playing the best end of the game defense I have seen all season but i kept seeing Tyrus leave his man and McDyse ended up with rebounds and new possesions. They are not a good defensive rebounding team until he stays with his man and not go for the huge block. His quote about being a 2nd team all defender one day is a joke until he learns to stay with his man.
Derrick has played very confident the past 2 weeks I can’t wait to see what happends this weekend.
No wonder Tyrus sometimes lays back instead of crashing the boards.
After skying to block a shot at the rim, he gets undercut, crashes on his back and gets steppped on.
How the hell did they justify whistling HIM for a foul? Pax should write a formal letter of protest accompanied by a tape showing some of the one sided garbage the Bulls had to overcome, thanks to the three blind mice masquerading as referees.
Maybe their reasoning was concern for endangerment to McDyess who might have twisted his ankle on TT’s back if he had been able to drag himself off the ground and suddenly stand up. The way the game was being called tonight, Tyrus would have probably been charged with another flagrant if that had occured. This travesty came right after another ridiculous foul call after he captured a rebound by slapping the ball towards the sideline and recovering it. Once the idiot official realized Tyrus grabbed it he blew a very late whistle for this phantom infraction. Even Vinny the Comotose awoke from his slumber to complain about the pathetic officiating on this one, but not enough to earn a T. Being the lowest paid coach in the NBA in a struggling economy, he has to watch those nickels and dimes, I guess but if this game can’t generate a technical out of him, I can’t even imagine what it would take, other than possibly an attempted beheading of Rose as he gets knocked around like a pinball while penetrating to the rim.
If the playoffs are going to be called anywhere nearly as one sided as this miracle win, the Bulls have ZERO chance of moving on, no matter who they play. What is it about the color red that makes the refs see red when doing a Bulls game? Tyrus was somewhat out of control tonight, but his fuming was justified for the most part, while Miller would have been within his rights to cold cock that cocky ref, Forte. Wallace kept slapping at him all night without a foul. Did the zebras think he was swatting flys?
The fact that the Bulls overcame all this adversity on the road in the biggest game of the year and still won (thanks Derrick, thanks Ben) may be indicative of very good things to come THIS YEAR as long as they don’t get jobbed by the 3 amigos or should I say Pirates?
If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard
by Tyrusmancrush on Apr 14, 2009 12:42 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I didn't like that call either
but something had to be called when McDyess couldn’t land with the ball, and it was not going to be travelling on him. There’s nothing Tyrus could do about that situation, but unfortunately being prone on the court doesn’t really qualify as having position. Sometimes you don’t do anytihing wrong and you still get called for the foul – it’s just a fact of basketball.
Frankly, I’m surprised neither player was seriously injured on that play.
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy
Nothing "needed" to be called. Contact happens and sometimes, it's not a foul.
That should have been one of those instances. Getting stepped on is not a foul on the person being stepped on.
Fire Vinny.
by fundamentallysound on Apr 14, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Sometimes yes, but I don't think this is one of those times
I think there’s a difference between being “stepped on” and being “landed on.” You have some control over where you step, but not where you land from being airborne. And if the contact causes a violation, like travelling, it’s called a foul more often than not. I think if you jumped for a rebound, landed on some one sprawled on the court and fell down because of that, you would expect a call in your favor.
On it’s own, this call is unfortunate for the Bulls, but not a poor call. I agree that this call looks particularly bad in light of the one-sided officiating through out the game. Pair that with the helpless position Tyrus was in when whistled for the foul, and it’s maddening. I rolled my eyes and groaned “you’ve got to be kidding me!” But that doesn’t make it a bad call IMO.
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy
The officiating was horrendous
How about BG’s heroic late game layup, where there was blatant contact (including an apparent nut shot) and no call?
It looked to me like the refs were determined to see the Pistons win. Frankly, I think it was a miracle that the Bulls were able to pull that game out.
John Paxson has been like family to me. I can no more disown him than I can disown my white grandmother, who also was unable to pull off any deals for superstar free agents or hire a top coach.
Now *that* was a crap no-call!
I think that was McDyess who clobbered him. If Tyrus wipes a guy out like that on a block attempt, FTs are coming for sure. Especially the way it was called last night. Actually, I think Tyrus picked up his 3rd or 4th foul that way (middle of the 4th).
However, that may be the type of “aggressive defensive” play the Bulls should expect in the playoffs.
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy
I thought a few
Non calls on BG were more aggravating than the Tyrus stuff….esp the layup that turned out to be a game winner.
Rose didn’t get some calls early, then got the call against Sheed on a play that likely normally wouldn’t be a call, and the way that game was refereed would only have been a call if Rip took it in….
That was a horribly Piston favored ref game. I don’t normally question the refs, but I was having Donaghy nightmare’s…..
I mean you expect horrible calls from Violet Palmer—and that’s just because she’s bad….but she wasn’t there….
4-9-09: Ok, so Vinny's not great, but maybe he has a future as an assistant coach.
did they just beat the '05 Pistons?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 14, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Yay we avoid the LeBron nutsuckers
The Magic have no stars outside of Dwight Howard and if he gets fouled he ain’t making his FT’s. I love the Bulls/Magic matchup. Have to take 1 in Orlando
It's a good thing that BG7 stuff grows balls, because Ben's might need replacing
after that late non-called foul.
Even the ESPN guys referred to it as a full-on assault and questioned how it could possibly not be an and-1.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
by wjb1492 on Apr 14, 2009 1:09 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
This was the worst officiated game I've seen all year
The refs were blowing calls on both ends all night. I can understand why Miller got himself thrown out. What I can’t believe is that Rasheed didn’t get himself thrown out. He must really be in full-scale “Don’t Give a Crap” mode at this point.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
I think some random guy could have come onto the court while BG was on the ground writhing in pain and punched him in the nuts
and the refs wouldn’t have noticed.
Joakim Noah: Better than you.
I kind of blame guys like Tim Legler
for those calls a bit as well. When they pretty much ride off Gordons talent. I don’t blame them a lot but I think if some people would give him some credit we’d see more respect from refs.
More then 1000 comments?????!!!!
Man,I don’t have that much time!But i will read them tommorow.
Go Bulls!!!Let’s upset Magic!
General manager needs the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow,next week, next month, and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn't happen.
Sir Paxdorf.
I can't even get my computer to open the whole thread at this point.
Hopefully there’s nothing to pithy or witty there, because I hate to miss good comments. :P
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
It's funny to read them after the game.
When people change their moods from “I hate this team” or “F…. you BG” to “There you go, Ben!”
General manager needs the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow,next week, next month, and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn't happen.
Sir Paxdorf.
With the 2008-09 Rookie of the Year
David Stern selects Derrick Rose of the Chicago Bulls…
Not gonna jump to any crazy predictions here but I can’t lie, I’m enjoying watching Bulls games again and that’s saying something. Even Matt is less cynical and for that we should all be grateful, just don’t tell Vinny or else he’ll start Tim Thomas and Hinrich in an effort to maximize “matchups”…
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
Is there any chance we can finish 5th?
The Heat play today in Atlanta and after that at home with Detroit. I can see them losing, at least, the first one. And the game against Detroit won’t be easy too. Now, if they lose both and we win against Toronto, both teams finish with a 42-40 record. And then what? Is there any chance we can finish 5th?
p.s. And didn’t watch the game again, but I surely loved the win and the block from Rose in the last seconds
nope, heat locked the 5th seed, bit of topic but, looks like that JR Smith guy can play, 11 threes, crazy
why did we even trade him, crap.
Derrick Rose colored glasses, gives you a "ROSY" outlook.
by Juan dela Cruz on Apr 14, 2009 6:27 AM CDT up reply actions
When JR Smith gets hot, it doesn't even matter
He’s still crazy though.
Joakim Noah: Better than you.
I'm not that sure that the Bulls traded JR Smith
I think he was let go that’s why we got nothing for him. I agree he can play very well, but I think he was let go because his personality would have clashed with then coach Skiles. Just look at what happened with Ben Wallace and Skiles, their personalities clashed and as a result it really ruined the teams chemistry.
by bennydabull-A.K.A.-beniciodeltoro on Apr 15, 2009 2:41 AM CDT up reply actions
we got 2 2nd round picks for him
and howard eisley, who we were obviously just looking to cut.
but it was due to his personality, yeah.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
don't forget
used the cap space to sign Adrian Griffin.
(I apologize if you did indeed forget that and were better for it)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 15, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Gordon and Hinrich are both having very good and great APM years....
…and it’d sure be nice to keep both of them. A Rose-Gordon-Hinrich backcourt really intrigues me. As much as I like the young Deng (and I still believe!!!) replacing wings… Ugh, I don’t know.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
you punting salmons then?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 14, 2009 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Not for next year.
Hope he keeps it up from the SF and use the three guards “better” (as in, mostly as guards) and somehow hope they can draft a suitable backup (making the need for Hinrich at SF less) that can grow into a starter.
If they wanted to draft a SF w/ their 1st pick, I’d say there’s a 50% chance* he could start for the Bulls in the future that had Rose, Gordon, Thomas and Noah. He’d be the worst of the five starters, but someone has to be.
*not based on historical data, but based on this class and the Bulls needs.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
yuck
thanks.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 14, 2009 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions
We are underdogs against both teams..
…but I like our chances better against Orlando if Turkoglu is injured / hobbled. I have a hunch KG will come back strong for Boston, with a point to prove. And the notion that BG, Salmons, Rose > Rondo, Pierce, Allen is just ridiculous. But I like the way our team is playing. Go Bulls!
by bullsfaninbigapple on Apr 14, 2009 8:46 AM CDT reply actions
can we just kill Stacey and Funk now and get it over with??
Seriously, these two are getting on my nerves more and more. Usually I can just ignore their foolishness, but lately they have been completely terrible. On the last play where Ben hit the game winner, Stacey was like, “get the ball to Derrick Rose, get the ball to Derrick Rose.” And as soon as Ben hits the layup, he was completely silent…not a peep.
That was just a sample, as there was much more bad announcing throughout the game. Their negativity is at an all-time high. It just seems like if ANYONE makes a bad play, they rip all over it. It actually makes watching the games harder than normal, because you can’t help but start to feel negative too
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
I watched the game with the sound off
so thankfully I missed this.
But I watch the games with a very negative eye too, so…
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 14, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
well I watch with a negative eye myself...
…but one thing I don’t do is rip over EVERY bad play. Even when someone who I don’t particularly care for makes a dumb play, there are times where I can let it go and just continue watching without even thinking or saying anything.
At one point yesterday, BG took an ill-advised jumper and King yelled out “that’s a HORRIBLE shot! That’s a terrible shot!” You would’ve thought that Ben played for the Pistons the way they started ripping him.
I guess I’m just looking for a little more sympathy from our home announcers…a little more Dore-ish and Johnny-ish.
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
by NormVanBeer on Apr 14, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions
well they're not negative I guess.
just negative towards BG and Tyrus.
And Funk sucks because he can’t see.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 14, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Rec to that
Funk can’t see comment.
I like King, but yeah he’s a bit too critical, especially when I remember him as the Big Dud….
4-9-09: Ok, so Vinny's not great, but maybe he has a future as an assistant coach.
I almost forgot...
…on CTL (previous to the game), they talked with Stacey for a few minues. He went on and on about how Kirk should be praised for being humble enough to accept his bench role and how that really propelled the team this year. Then in the very next sentence he says “I don’t think Gordon would’ve accepted that role”. HUH? Have you seen ANY of the previous 4 seasons Stacey? It was a complete cheap shot at Ben and his character that wasn’t necessary…or true for that matter.
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
by NormVanBeer on Apr 14, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
"Kurt really gave us a lift tonight"
he’s the teflon don. His jersey will be hanging from the rafters in 8 years. I’ve already learned to welcome my Hinrich overlords.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 14, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Agree! Ben Gordon has won his share of games ..now he's equated with a Ben Wallace type taking the last shot!
These guys need to take a step back and keep their emotions in check…
This is unprofessionism, I feel like I’m listening to two overly bias talkative dads commenting at the first soccer game for their three year old sons being critical of their perception of the lessor children.
man up!
Agree - I cannot stand when they rip the other team and say the Bulls should easily win.
They are real downers. Over the course of the season they become hard to listen to.
funk can't get our radio mode of describing everything
by bullsfaninbigapple on Apr 14, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
And what he describes is typically inaccurate anyway.
Probably was inaccurate on the radio as well but we couldn’t visually check it at the time.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Apr 14, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He has a nice voice though
I wish he’d go back to the radio….switch him with Swirsky (who I haven’t listened to much—I used to have to drive out to Woodstock often to visit my now wife and heard a lot of Funk)….now that long hour plus drive is no more, so the radio days are no more—helps too that I have a DVR…
4-9-09: Ok, so Vinny's not great, but maybe he has a future as an assistant coach.
Rondo
A lot of people here seem to be underetimating what Rondo can do. Consiering rose has trouble staying in front of his man and rondo can blow by anyone, I would be concerned with the backcourt defense going up against allen and rondo. Im pretty sure vinny will be concerned too and if its a half court type of game will put hinrich in there for who knows how long at which point rondo will still blow right by him.
Even if you think that overall rose is a better player than rondo, I don’t think he matches up well against him.
I do think Rose is a better than Rondo
they both have speed and they both can blow by the other anytime, but Celtics have overall better defense than Bulls.
If I were Vinny I wouldn’t worry about Rose on Rondo and I’d put Kirk on Ray Allen
"...Lies, damned lies, and statistics."
Rondo's defense is WAY better than Rose's right now.
Rondo is a better distributor. Rose is better at scoring. Rondo is better right now, as in for the year, but Rose is getting better as we speak/type.
On Rondo's defense
I agree that he is a better distributor for now, a big part of that is that he knows and played with his team mates longer. In my opinion, a significant part of Rondo’s defense is his confidence in his team mates to do their part on the defensive end, rotations and weak side help, blocking, etc.
by bennydabull-A.K.A.-beniciodeltoro on Apr 15, 2009 2:35 AM CDT up reply actions
I think it's the other way around
I think a lot of people are overestimating what Rondo does, he is good, has improved a lot, but I think a lot of people are forgetting that he is playing with 3 all star team mates which makes things a little bit easier for him. Other teams are wary of leaving their guys to help out on a dribble penetration by Rondo because they are guarding guys who are very capable of finishing to the basket or shoot an open jumper. Credit for him for recognizing that and using it to his advantage. He is good, but I think that if you give the same cast to Derrick Rose he would do an equal if not a better job than Rondo.
by bennydabull-A.K.A.-beniciodeltoro on Apr 15, 2009 2:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Men in Bulls uniforms played last night: Won the significant/big game when necessary
Unlike the Bulls a few season back who couldn’t close the door and achieve 50 wins …
Still I’d like to see Orlando first ..
man up!
Derrick really took over - I mean really!
Did you see how animated Rose was in the huddle after BG put us ahead by 2? He was pointing at different players, in total charge of the huddle, strategizing their defense. That huddle to me means this team has crossed a threshold of unity/chemistry with Rose the clear leader. I was almost certain we were going to get a stop as I watched the player in that huddle. It wasn’t just Rose leading but they all seemed intently listening and giving ideas. The intensity of that huddle has not been seen since Michael.
It was all during the fourth quarter that he was like that.
It’s a recent development, too. He’s a rare bird to be doing that so young.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
I like that nickname!
4-9-09: Ok, so Vinny's not great, but maybe he has a future as an assistant coach.
I'll only accept the nickname
if it’s always accompanied by a falcon screech after its said. Kinda like the one the eagle makes on the Colbert Report.
THE FALCON: eeaaaaayyyyyyyyaaahhhhh!
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Apr 14, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah
Next year we should add the Birdman….have the Falcon with the Birdman backing up Thomas…
4-9-09: Ok, so Vinny's not great, but maybe he has a future as an assistant coach.
I cannot wait to see Rose in the Playoffs!
Can you say 20 and 10…? Anybody? Anybody at all?
Vinny...you look confused
The top 3 teams don't really wanna play us....
They don’t, trust me. It’s not because of our “amazing” fast-court offense, or our inconsistent amateurish defense that we have at times.
It’s simply because……we have Derrick Rose. Philadelphia doesn’t have like Rose, nor does Detroit.
But we have Derrick, and you NEVER know what will happen. I mean, there’s a chance he might just go off in the playoffs and average 30 points and 10 assists a game and just take over.
We know he’s capable, and he can definitely do it. And you know that the Sixers and the Pistons don’t have anyone like that on their team.
Yeah
Last week on the daily dime there was some editorialized quotes from Doc Rivers (where teh editor would write and add in blurbs) and the way they wrote it made you think Doc would rather we stay in the 6th spot….
4-9-09: Ok, so Vinny's not great, but maybe he has a future as an assistant coach.
Didn't know if this
has been posted or not. Prepare to laugh your ass off. There are several players to see and listen to.
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/2009/04/kirk-hinrichs-singing-voice.jsp
Probably should have made a fanshot.
by sue369 on Apr 14, 2009 4:31 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
yes sue.
yes it probably should have.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 14, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions
i saw that earlier
so thanks for reminding me since i just had an opportunity to watch. that first video is hilarious. i had seen the others (other than the bears one).
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
I hope you guys return to being an elite franchise. You have a good chance with Rose leading the way.
The BEdger previously known as BR7formvp.
I don't know where to post this
but C Webb just said Rose doesn’t deserve ROY over Mayo because Rose has a great coaching staff and a great coach. WOW. Really? C Webb? Really?
i'd say post this in one of the discussions about ROY, there's a few
but omg, that is one of the worst pieces of logic i’ve ever heard. o_0
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
Why don't we flip that around and make everything the opposite.
Then he would be spot on. Rose deserves ROY because of all he’s done DESPITE a rookie coach. Dude, he had them go bowling before a big game. He’s been coached by a boob and it hasn’t stopped him.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
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