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Around SBN: Bob Sapp Denies Throwing Fights

Open Thread #62 Overflow: Chicago Bulls vs. Golden State Warriors

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anyone notice

kirk picked up that dude who tried to intercept that pass (after kirk stole the ball and was handing it off to rose),,,who does that? who picks up a guy on the other team, WHILE THE GAME IS STILL GOING ON….here let me help you so you can get back to defending me….

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Mar 4, 2009 9:17 PM CST reply actions  

wat are u trying to say here

im very confused

Chicago... Where giving up career nights happens

by Yibs on Mar 4, 2009 9:22 PM CST up reply actions  

new reason to hate Kirk

"Whenever Kirk/Ben are in together. Kirk turns into a crappy player, because he tries to freeze Gordon out of the offense." - Andrew7

by gobulls1124 on Mar 4, 2009 9:23 PM CST up reply actions  

yea but all i get from it

was that kirk stole the ball…. is that bad?
is this sarcasm?

Chicago... Where giving up career nights happens

by Yibs on Mar 4, 2009 9:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Kirk stole the ball (disregard the good play)

Handed the ball off to Rose, and then helped up his fallen opponent from the floor. That’s what I read.

"Whenever Kirk/Ben are in together. Kirk turns into a crappy player, because he tries to freeze Gordon out of the offense." - Andrew7

by gobulls1124 on Mar 4, 2009 9:27 PM CST up reply actions  

ohhh the guy fell

i thought when he said picked up.. he ment picked up defensively… gottcha

Chicago... Where giving up career nights happens

by Yibs on Mar 4, 2009 9:29 PM CST up reply actions  

lol wut

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Mar 4, 2009 9:24 PM CST up reply actions  

you've FINALLY come around to our side :-)

I know you haven’t…it’s just nice to finally see you say something negative about your hero

http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/

by NormVanBeer on Mar 4, 2009 9:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Huh

what negative…that just exemplifies the true greatness that hinrich is. He is so great at the game that he lifted the defender up, CHALENGING him to get back on his feet and guard hinrich, because no player can guard hinrich but hinrich himself…muawhahahahaha

….was that a little over the top?

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Mar 4, 2009 9:28 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

lol

wow…i totally mis-read what you were doing. Ugh!!

http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/

by NormVanBeer on Mar 4, 2009 9:28 PM CST up reply actions  

you're a riot! .. But on occassions Kirk has flashes of just plain great basketball exhibitions and then he reverts

his swing of great to mopey has been so tramatically wide….

Once he reduces this range (++ gravity more toward the great play) he’ll leave Deng alone on the attack the overpaid player list.

man up!

by exult463 on Mar 6, 2009 1:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Does anyone have a link I'm dying here?

Derrick Rose will lead us back to the promise land.

In Vinny We Trust!

by DRose#1 on Mar 4, 2009 9:19 PM CST reply actions  

Doesnt work any other?

Derrick Rose will lead us back to the promise land.

In Vinny We Trust!

by DRose#1 on Mar 4, 2009 9:23 PM CST up reply actions  

did you copy and paste?

"Whenever Kirk/Ben are in together. Kirk turns into a crappy player, because he tries to freeze Gordon out of the offense." - Andrew7

by gobulls1124 on Mar 4, 2009 9:24 PM CST up reply actions  

OMG

Rose almost made an move i thought he would be doing this whole year.

But then he didnt.

V.ery D.elusional N.incompoop

Until I think of something better :D

by Rudey on Mar 4, 2009 9:21 PM CST reply actions  

that was

the slowest posession ever…

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Mar 4, 2009 9:25 PM CST reply actions  

Kirk and Miller really like to play with eachother.

General manager needs the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow,next week, next month, and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn't happen.
Sir Paxdorf.

by Azabullsfan on Mar 4, 2009 9:25 PM CST reply actions  

racial profiling

rose has the ball and gordon and salmons are involved
kirk has the ball and miller is the dude involved…

i know its not true but it sounds like it could be…

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Mar 4, 2009 9:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Um......

That’s what she said?

Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 4, 2009 9:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Thabo with another great game! Thunder win 3 in a row... :-)

some spectacular reverse layups, a n look pass and a monster block on Jamison.. wow!

he has really spread his defensive mentality in the team and they are sooo aggressive right now..

Thabo: 15 pts (50%), 8 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 steals and 3 BLOCKS, 1 TO…

Woot Woot!!!

by simonswiss on Mar 4, 2009 9:26 PM CST reply actions  

and minutes...

Chicago... Where giving up career nights happens

by Yibs on Mar 4, 2009 9:31 PM CST up reply actions  

from a crap record team, thunder gets to win 3 in a row (including the Mavs with a red hot Nowitzki)

, and all without Durant.

Thabo is impacting this franchise big time. Locker room presence or something.. The announcers keep noticing how the whole team’s defense has picked up in intensity since thabo came in..

I love it!!

by simonswiss on Mar 4, 2009 9:37 PM CST up reply actions  

damn good game

makes you see what VDN saw in him by starting him to begin the season. Now if he only could get him to play that well in Chicago

by Basketball Smurf on Mar 4, 2009 9:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Gald for Thabo.

And it’s good to see sefo-update right here.

General manager needs the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow,next week, next month, and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn't happen.
Sir Paxdorf.

by Azabullsfan on Mar 4, 2009 9:29 PM CST up reply actions  

does he play the 3 or SG there?

Chicago... Where giving up career nights happens

by Yibs on Mar 4, 2009 9:31 PM CST up reply actions  

switching between 2 and 3

in the last 3 games he averages 38 minutes.. :-)

will go down a little when durant and green are back, but he made his place in the 5 for sure!

by simonswiss on Mar 4, 2009 9:34 PM CST up reply actions  

yea... i wanted him to get minutes at the 2 here

but that was pretty much impossible with all the gaurds we had and vinnys lineups…

Chicago... Where giving up career nights happens

by Yibs on Mar 4, 2009 9:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Congrats Thabo

Keep it up

"Whenever Kirk/Ben are in together. Kirk turns into a crappy player, because he tries to freeze Gordon out of the offense." - Andrew7

by gobulls1124 on Mar 4, 2009 9:32 PM CST up reply actions  

The Swiss Monster

I’ll be happy if he becomes the regular starter there.

Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 4, 2009 9:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Me too.

:D

"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com

by Prevenge on Mar 4, 2009 11:43 PM CST up reply actions  

pippen

Chicago... Where giving up career nights happens

by Yibs on Mar 4, 2009 9:34 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I never know if you guys will get the shits when i put news about thabo here..

glad to see you seem to like it.

Yes, Bulls need a new coach. So much potential held under water…

by simonswiss on Mar 4, 2009 9:35 PM CST reply actions  

So...

Are you a Thunder fan now?

"So long Noc, we hardly knew ya."

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 4, 2009 9:36 PM CST up reply actions  

I watch all their games and comment on their wall!

today we had a record audience in the thread: 3 persons: Admin, 1 dude and me! haha

by simonswiss on Mar 4, 2009 9:38 PM CST up reply actions  

yea i need to catch one game

Chicago... Where giving up career nights happens

by Yibs on Mar 4, 2009 9:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Nice!

Respect.

"So long Noc, we hardly knew ya."

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 4, 2009 9:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes.

Well, I am.
Woooooo.

Was before too. Even though … more a fan of the Sonics. … sigh.

"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com

by Prevenge on Mar 4, 2009 9:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Of course I like him

The problem was not him, but the coach. With a good coach, the players could be better. Look what happen when most of them leave the Bulls

by bull83 on Mar 4, 2009 9:36 PM CST up reply actions  

i like thabo

i don’t know if skiles or boylan ever gave him a chance. And when the bulls picked rose without unloading Hinrich or Gordon, his fate was sealed. He was just never going to get enough minutes

by Basketball Smurf on Mar 4, 2009 9:37 PM CST up reply actions  

You want a scoop?

Thabo comes from little swiss town of Vevey, around lake Geneva. Random.

Jim Boylan used to coach this very little town’s team and lead them to back to back to back national championships!!

Maybe i said too much about the basketball level in switzerland there… haha.

Anyway, thabo had no clue about him. Boylan took him and told him: I used to coach the team where you grew up playing… (thabo was in the starting 5 at 15yrs old in vevey team..)..

How random!!

by simonswiss on Mar 4, 2009 9:41 PM CST up reply actions  

wow that is completely random

boylan head coaching in the Swiss leagues, that does make sense however.

by Basketball Smurf on Mar 4, 2009 9:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Anyone have a link?

NBA League Pass died.

http://www.dabullz.com

Chicago Bulls Blog and Forums. NBA Power Rankings.

by Andrew7 on Mar 4, 2009 9:36 PM CST reply actions  

my LP didn't die at all...

"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"

by Jaina on Mar 4, 2009 10:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Pax hit the jackpot when he traded Noc for Salmons

Yesterday he had a bad game, but today is back to normal

by bull83 on Mar 4, 2009 9:39 PM CST reply actions  

BIG MACS

Chicago... Where giving up career nights happens

by Yibs on Mar 4, 2009 9:39 PM CST reply actions  

UC got Bigmac orgazm.

General manager needs the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow,next week, next month, and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn't happen.
Sir Paxdorf.

by Azabullsfan on Mar 4, 2009 9:40 PM CST reply actions  

Take Joakims Rebounds

at least he offensive ones, and divide them by two, he doesnt just get a rebound, he gets it , loses it, and gets it again……thats how he fills those offensive rebound stats….although its a nice method…

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Mar 4, 2009 9:41 PM CST reply actions  

I've always felt some of his advanced statistics

were skewed because of that. Several times a game he’ll tip the ball towards the basket 3 times in a row and miss all 3 times. If he had grabbed one rebound and then scored he would have been a lot more effective, but it wouldn’t have looked as nice in the statline.

by runningman on Mar 5, 2009 12:03 AM CST up reply actions  

It worked for Moses Malone!

"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying." -- Michael Jordan

by bennythebull on Mar 5, 2009 11:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Noah is better from the line then BG.LOL.

General manager needs the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow,next week, next month, and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn't happen.
Sir Paxdorf.

by Azabullsfan on Mar 4, 2009 9:41 PM CST reply actions  

7 man rotation tonight?

Did I hear that right?

"So long Noc, we hardly knew ya."

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 4, 2009 9:44 PM CST reply actions  

Yes

Luol and Tim Thomas are hurt, don’t forget that

by bull83 on Mar 4, 2009 9:45 PM CST up reply actions  

aaron gray

make that 8 man lineup

Chicago... Where giving up career nights happens

by Yibs on Mar 4, 2009 9:44 PM CST reply actions  

kirk nice steal and assist

Chicago... Where giving up career nights happens

by Yibs on Mar 4, 2009 9:45 PM CST reply actions  

Gray's got the playoff beard goin

I would rather have the AI of 2k9 coach this team than VDN
by trig on Feb 22, 2009 1:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

by chibullsfan03 on Mar 4, 2009 9:46 PM CST reply actions  

roberson

Chicago... Where giving up career nights happens

by Yibs on Mar 4, 2009 9:46 PM CST reply actions  

Human victory cigar...

ROBERSON!

"So long Noc, we hardly knew ya."

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 4, 2009 9:46 PM CST reply actions  

This is what we in the bigs call "Garbage time," Vinny

Play the subs..

"Whenever Kirk/Ben are in together. Kirk turns into a crappy player, because he tries to freeze Gordon out of the offense." - Andrew7

by gobulls1124 on Mar 4, 2009 9:47 PM CST reply actions  

I didn't watch tonight but...

A 7 man rotation on the tail end of a back to back against GS is something… I’m trying to believe this team is still worth rooting for.

"So long Noc, we hardly knew ya."

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 4, 2009 9:48 PM CST reply actions  

Random thoughts.Tyrus minutes way down again. Bulls beat crap team. Vinny is a nightmare.

Miller +31, Kirk +26.

If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard

by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 4, 2009 9:48 PM CST reply actions  

lmao whats the point of that?!

I would rather have the AI of 2k9 coach this team than VDN
by trig on Feb 22, 2009 1:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

by chibullsfan03 on Mar 4, 2009 9:49 PM CST reply actions  

what was Roberson doing?

you don’t score that

http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/

by NormVanBeer on Mar 4, 2009 9:49 PM CST reply actions  

but the crowd was cheering him to score!

that justifies it enough, right?

I would rather have the AI of 2k9 coach this team than VDN
by trig on Feb 22, 2009 1:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

by chibullsfan03 on Mar 4, 2009 9:51 PM CST up reply actions  

They won't play Golden State till next year

And he’s never going to get meaningful minutes. No big deal.

Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 4, 2009 10:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Roberson!!!LOL!!

General manager needs the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow,next week, next month, and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn't happen.
Sir Paxdorf.

by Azabullsfan on Mar 4, 2009 9:49 PM CST reply actions  

That was bush league...

Crawford should have put him in the front row.

"So long Noc, we hardly knew ya."

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 4, 2009 9:50 PM CST reply actions  

good win tonight!

especially since new jersey and milwaukee lost.

by joetheplumber on Mar 4, 2009 9:50 PM CST reply actions  

as bad as the bulls have played

its shocking to think they will be playing Milwaukee on friday for the 8th seed in the playoffs.

by Basketball Smurf on Mar 4, 2009 9:52 PM CST up reply actions  

how odd that with a smaller rotation, we get wins...

i thought every player must play the exact same amount of minutes so there is no tention and everyone gets together and win… ?? any help, Vinny?

by simonswiss on Mar 4, 2009 9:51 PM CST reply actions  

Now we just have to lose the next game,

and I will be able to predict the future of the Bulls.

"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com

by Prevenge on Mar 4, 2009 9:52 PM CST reply actions  

Former bulls

thabo
15pts 8rebs 4ast 3stls 3blks

Hughes
23pts 4rebs 4ast 3stls

by trig on Mar 4, 2009 9:56 PM CST up reply actions  

meh

Thabo, Noc, and Hughes all show minor shifts in their PER with their new clubs. I got watch Hughes against the Heat and Dwayne Wade was just gaming him the whole night. Wade was giving Hughes the drive and he still wouldn’t take it.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Mar 5, 2009 10:16 AM CST up reply actions  

OMG why did we trade him!!!!!!!!!

Oh wait, John Salmons 23 points, 9 rebounds, no turnovers.

Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 4, 2009 9:57 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Expected outcome against worthless opponent

Now for the drama of Friday night’s game against the Bucks!

Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 4, 2009 10:00 PM CST reply actions  

I'll test out my Vinny interview canned responses

his post game should include the words:
-energy
-focused
-overall effort

I would rather have the AI of 2k9 coach this team than VDN
by trig on Feb 22, 2009 1:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

by chibullsfan03 on Mar 4, 2009 10:01 PM CST reply actions  

You forgot a "I liked Kirk's energy" note

Vis a vis it’s really Vinny saying “I liked watching myself 10 years later as if I was still in the NBA”.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Mar 5, 2009 10:14 AM CST up reply actions  

VDN

just described Salmons by saying things Deng can’t do. He can shoot, he can drive, can play the 2, the 3. We had iso plays for him blablahblah

by trig on Mar 4, 2009 10:07 PM CST reply actions  

Hooray, he can drive on the Warriors

My mom can play like Candace Parker against Golden State.

Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 4, 2009 10:08 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I hate Vinny, but those are still valid points. Shitty opponent or not.

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Mar 4, 2009 10:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Valid because the whole offense is just isolation?

I hate defending Deng because he does such a horrible job of vindicating me, but in a real offense Lu is very good. Now, maybe we shouldn’t pay 72 million to a guy who can’t play some playground ball once in a while, but whatever, Vinny still failed the team.

Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 4, 2009 10:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Valid because Deng can't create his own shot and you can't run iso plays for him

I agree that in a real offense he’s good, but we have this shit-tastic Vinny creation that renders anyone who can’t take their opponent off the dribble useless

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Mar 4, 2009 10:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Sadly though, "ISO plays" = our entire offense

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Mar 4, 2009 10:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Flash: Major discovery in Oklahoma City

It was just discovered that former Bulls benchwarmer, Thabo Sefalosha can actually pass, rebound, defend and even score, when exposed to proffesional COACHING.

It is also rumored that former Bulls malcontent, Larry Hughes may have been in possession of hidden talents, which remained deeply hidden under the non-direction of his former rookie coach, Vinny Del Simpleton.

Who would have expected former Bull Andreas Nocioni to be filling up the stat sheet in a spectacular fashion now that he no longer has to play power forward against opponents 5 inches taller than himself while being espected to carry the team in crunch time. His new relaxed attitutude has not seemed to affect his amazing grit .

It should just be a matter of time before 7th man Drew Gooden helps lead the Spurs back to the championship round now that his new coach has taught him some defensive tricks he never knew while having to play out of position at the 5 in Chicago and also showed him that only taking high percentage shots within the offense can make him a better player.

In the meantime, VDN will be going through the Bulls 3 basic offensive sets until everyone knows their roles (something he is still bouncing around in his cranial cavity) but still hasn’t settled on rotations on whether Hinrich or Roberson should play the 3 in Deng’s absence off the bench.

On the defensive side he is leaning towards either playing zone, constantly switching or just letting the fellahs figure it out on their own (another thing he is currently perusing in his cerebral cortex) which accounts for his wild arm movements and constant sideline pacing when the synapses sometimes misfire as a result of overload due to a lack of storage space in his brain.

Once he finishes the rest of the training videos, possibly even before the season ends, Vinny feels comfortable that he will be able to impart this knowledge to his players because of his self admitted communication skills. This news has pleased both John Paxson and Jerry Riensdorf who value loyalty, committment but above all, professionalism from their minions.

If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard

by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 4, 2009 10:33 PM CST reply actions   2 recs

haha

sorry but i noticed, that luol deng has now taken the role that kirk hinrich had in your reviews…..its kinda funny….

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Mar 4, 2009 11:22 PM CST up reply actions  

"Salmons is less of a blackhole than Deng"

LOL. The internet police need to take that site away from you.

"Whenever Kirk/Ben are in together. Kirk turns into a crappy player, because he tries to freeze Gordon out of the offense." - Andrew7

by gobulls1124 on Mar 4, 2009 11:50 PM CST up reply actions  

You don't think Deng is a blackhole?

What I see, is the ball rarely being passed out when Deng gets it. He’s almost always trying to create something, even if it’s not there. If he passes out, it’s only as a last resort, after he has flailed around trying to find some way to get up a bad shot.

http://www.dabullz.com

Chicago Bulls Blog and Forums. NBA Power Rankings.

by Andrew7 on Mar 5, 2009 12:33 AM CST up reply actions  

Ben Gordon's biggest fanboy calling another player out for taking bad shots?

…WOW.

Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger

by fundamentallysound on Mar 5, 2009 12:35 AM CST up reply actions  

I did no such ...

oh…you were talking about Andrew. Well, this is awkward. (puts fan club card back into wallet)

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Mar 5, 2009 12:37 AM CST up reply actions  

According to the basketball-reference Bulls stats page.

Ben Gordon – 57.2 TS%
Luol Deng – 51.1 TS%

One player, Gordon has a very high scoring efficiency, and thus, is not questioned about his shot selection as much. He has scored the most efficient on the Bulls for the guys who have been here all season. (Salmons is doing better since getting here, small sample size, but he did about the same scoring efficiency as BG in Sacramento, so while his Bulls number might be a little high, he will still be very good when he comes down).

Luol Deng on the other hand, has a low scoring efficiency. What I would call an unacceptable scoring efficiency.

Ben Gordon is a more skilled player. He can make the difficult shots, and has made a bit of an art out of making the difficult shots. Deng can’t really make a shot unless he is wide open, squared, and well balanced. Which shots each players can make are different. Gordon can hit a much larger array of shots on a consistent basis than Deng can.

On the season as a whole, Ben Gordon has made his shots. On the season as a whole, Luol Deng hasn’t. That’s why Deng deserves this criticism while Gordon generally does not.

http://www.dabullz.com

Chicago Bulls Blog and Forums. NBA Power Rankings.

by Andrew7 on Mar 5, 2009 12:44 AM CST up reply actions  

Although to me Deng avoids the blackhole status

because he visibly (or invisibly…hm…) doesn’t seem to want the ball or know what to do with it when he gets it unless the shot is immediately there for him. And if his shot is there you do want him to shoot. Because Deng with a perfect look at the basket with his feet planted and space is usually efficient. Deng in any other situation is not. And when he doesn’t have his shot he doesn’t know what to do with the ball. Which leads to awkwardness like charges, getting stripped, traveling etc. He isn’t used to passing it out because in the olden days his shot was usually open for him when he got the ball. Deng isn’t a blackhole but he is a weak link in a stagnant offense. Not good but nowhere near Noc or Hughes status. He just doesn’t have it in him.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Mar 5, 2009 12:54 AM CST up reply actions  

Look I know Ben is a better scorer than Luol and makes tough shots sometimes

but for someone who worships at the altar of BG like you do to fault someone like Luol freakin’ Deng for taking bad shots is ridiculous. Luol’s shots generally come when he is wide open. I really don’t see what you’re describing at all happening on the court…ever.

Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger

by fundamentallysound on Mar 5, 2009 12:54 AM CST up reply actions  

this part was funny

He’s almost always trying to create something, even if it’s not there. If he passes out, it’s only as a last resort, after he has flailed around trying to find some way to get up a bad shot.

That could be used to describe gordon. I think it actually has been used to describe gordon….

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Mar 5, 2009 11:25 AM CST up reply actions  

he used pretty much

the same sentences on one of his post game reviews once. and i said the same thing then… it really is funny.

Chicago... Where giving up career nights happens

by Yibs on Mar 5, 2009 12:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Gordon still has

a better bag of tricks when it comes to shot options. A bad shot for someone else can be a higher percentage shot for Gordon. It really isn’t that hard to see the differences between Deng and Gordon as shooters.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Mar 5, 2009 1:20 PM CST up reply actions  

gordon's of course a better shooter

and i don’t think those defending deng about being a black hole would deny that.

however, gordon DOES force more shots and trips and fumbles and flails around more than deng. he just happens to make more forced shots. that doesn’t make them good ones.

"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"

by Jaina on Mar 5, 2009 1:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Vinny can coach - if he doesn't have to coach

Reminiscent of the post-trade Nuggets game, a short-handed Bulls team won and scored a bunch of points.

Isn’t it funny how that happens when the rotation only involves 7 players, and Vinny has few decisions to make regarding who is on the floor? I’m pleased they are winning these games, don’t get me wrong, but they are doing so in a manner that makes it look like Vinny can not figure out the puzzle if there are more than 7 pieces.

"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy

by mdmnd9294 on Mar 4, 2009 10:43 PM CST reply actions  

He still screwed up

In the 4th he had Salmons at PF, Kirk at SF, BG at SG and Rose at PG and was barely saved by the Warriors demand to shoot their way through this 5 man rather than punish it by attacking the rim. Maybe they were just afraid of Noah in the paint.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Mar 5, 2009 10:11 AM CST up reply actions  

having salmons at PF at all

was pretty much an embarassment when ty, brad, and jo were all healthy and none were in foul trouble.

"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"

by Jaina on Mar 5, 2009 10:13 AM CST up reply actions  

God bless you, Don Nelson

The Warriors are so used to being undersized Nelly probably didn’t realize the Bulls were trying to beat them at their own game. Vinny throwing in some crazy reverse-psyochology…

"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy

by mdmnd9294 on Mar 5, 2009 10:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Even with Nelly

having Maggette at the PF, attacking the rim is pretty much all of Maggette’s game. He’s very good at it, but even he went to sleep on doing it staring at teeny tiny Bulls.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Mar 5, 2009 12:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I think it would be more accurate to say Vinny can figure out the puzzle better it was limited to the title of an old Jack Nicholson movie

5 EASY PIECES.

In this scenario, even Vinney couldn’t screw up his rotations.

If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard

by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 4, 2009 10:52 PM CST reply actions  

i went to golden state of mind's blog

and man…i gotta say…I HAVE NO EARTHLY IDEA OF WHAT THEY ARE SAYING…..its like reading 800 text messages about the game……….i dont know if i ever told you this matt, but blogabull really is awesome, compared to some of those scary blogs out there (goldenstate of mind with the text talk, blazers edge with the pritchard cult, then the other 15 blogs that are like ghost towns…)

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Mar 4, 2009 11:35 PM CST reply actions  

Don't have to Norn, Prevege and Host

Your too dumb and will do it for me! Eat it for the next 20 plus games!
2 big mistakes, none of you fools can even mention. Rose game never improved from the first week (the worst), and you blew over $7 million on Hughes and Hunter and got ZERO.
Why, not DelNegro, Bickerstaff and Harris knew better, but since they are washed up and look like support for a couple hundred grand, they didn’t speak up. Cap going down to 50’s with the economy, Bulls are screwed! Have fun, maybe once, take someone with a different opinion and think about it, ask him why he knows?

by Know on Mar 4, 2009 11:52 PM CST reply actions   2 recs

KNOW IS BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ALERT EVERYONE!!! AHHH!!!!!!

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Mar 5, 2009 12:28 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

But you don't know.

Makes your name kind of ironic.
If I tried to understand every crackpot who could type out a sentence written in a language that’s vaguely English, I’d never be off the internet.

"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com

by Prevenge on Mar 5, 2009 12:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Please. "Know" did not go to college. Let's be honest here.

Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger

by fundamentallysound on Mar 5, 2009 4:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Probably flunked out of SLU while Hughes went there

Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 5, 2009 4:36 PM CST up reply actions  

I was thinking more along the lines of one of the JuCo's

that recruit athletes that can not meet the academic standards for receiving a NCAA scholarship at at 4-year school.

Maybe we can (but probably not)?

by Granny Waiters on Mar 5, 2009 4:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Welcome back, you glorious, glorious fool

Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 5, 2009 1:24 AM CST up reply actions  

Remember that Hughes initially played well for the Bulls,

then reverted to Larry Un-Legend.

Hughes should be thanking Pax every day for trading him, rather than just sending him home.

Maybe we can (but probably not)?

by Granny Waiters on Mar 5, 2009 3:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Salmons makes you forget Deng exists... actually a SF that is part of the flow.

I have always thought of Deng as a reserve at this stage of his career. He just never had any real competition (aside from Noc) who was hated here, and wasn’t coached since the Skiles days.. so Noc’s productivity went south after Skiles quit.

Heck, Paxson’s complete core were and still are reserves in the NBA. Paxson’s core whom he paid some as starters. I couldn’t believe how much of an nim-come-poot idiot Paxson is with the words that came out of his mouth and with every decision he has made?.

man up!

by exult463 on Mar 4, 2009 11:56 PM CST reply actions  

If in the flow means taking turns going 1 on 1 then Salmons

is part of the flow. I tend to associate flow with an actual NBA offense, but maybe that’s just me.

by Scotter on Mar 5, 2009 1:11 AM CST up reply actions  

you're correct

Salmons 1-on-1 and attacking the rim appears more fluid and consistent in the offense, whereas Deng disappears often…

man up!

by exult463 on Mar 5, 2009 8:28 AM CST up reply actions  

Deng is a reserve "at this point in his career"

What the fuck. So everyone is impressed by glorified pickup basketball now?

Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 5, 2009 1:27 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

only when we blow out crappy teams at home. when we get whupped, like we should playing this style,

then everyone decides it sucks. Can’t have it both ways, guys. It was nice to beat GSW, but it wasn’t a very satisfying win from a basketball purist’s perspective. One on one, playground ball is not fun to watch (unless it’s MJ).

Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger

by fundamentallysound on Mar 5, 2009 1:34 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I may just crack

and start flagging every post that goes ‘Oh man, we should just iso everybody! YEAH!’

"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com

by Prevenge on Mar 5, 2009 1:36 AM CST up reply actions  

I'd rather have a real offense, drawn up by a real coach

But, hey, we killed the Warriors, so you may be onto something.

Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 5, 2009 9:43 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Deng a reserve? no

But I do like the John Salmons that dribbles to attack the rim than the John Salmons that dribbles to take a jump shot he can get any time he wants.

Somehow Salmons wasn’t scored for one turnover last night. I thought he had two.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Mar 5, 2009 10:05 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't understand the Thabo trade.

I’m sure it was a money deal but damn Thabo would be helpful now.

Pool and a pond... Pond be good for you.

by SoulEater7 on Mar 5, 2009 1:40 AM CST reply actions  

I think it was a minutes deal. Thabo wasn't going to get any and

they didn’t anticipate Tim Thomas and Deng going down to injury.

Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger

by fundamentallysound on Mar 5, 2009 2:38 AM CST up reply actions  

check it out

both thabo and highes make the top 10 list last night.

Chicago... Where giving up career nights happens

by Yibs on Mar 5, 2009 6:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Wow, I didn't see

the game last night and heard about the Randolph block on TT.

I needed to see what everyone was talking about when they mentioned how Tyrus came down on his leg, ouch!

For those of you who didn’t see it, the link is below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whh9ZCFoYLQ

by PricanStar on Mar 5, 2009 9:43 AM CST reply actions  

yeah, looks painful

can’t believe it didn’t get block of the night on nba.com… it wasbetter than the one that was.

"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"

by Jaina on Mar 5, 2009 9:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Holy shit that was nasty

Tyrus had some nice dunks to build up that confidence, but wow….that’s an ego killer.

Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 5, 2009 9:54 AM CST up reply actions  

That play is good indicator of how much progress Tyrus has to make on offense

He’s got Randolph on his hip. He’s still trying to play power forward like he’s a guard. He’s avoiding the contact even though he’s already past Randolph. All he has to do is slow his tempo, gather on two feet, and jump right into Randolph and flush it with two hands.

He started to make adjustments later in the game. He had the ball on two other possesions 1 foot from the rim. He received, did a pump fake, took one dribble into the center of the lane and rose for an easy two handed flush.

True, it is against no front line Warriors, but it’s something we haven’t seen all that often from Tyrus. If he does more of this he’s going to get a lot of free throw attempts and a slew of high percentage shots.

What I really liked is Tyrus shook that injury off. It was probably more of a a mental injury. He wasn’t expecting Randolph to recover that fast, and I thought he really did injure himself, but he bounced back and on a few possessions later drove right at Randolph again and pounded home a two hander.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Mar 5, 2009 10:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Holy crap, how did he not get injured

look at his leg bend back. Eghhhh.

"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com

by Prevenge on Mar 5, 2009 12:17 PM CST up reply actions  

For all the good salmons did on the offensive end

id take deng for his defense alone, it was noticable, salmons gets lazy on defense sometimes…..i mean….is keeping your hand up really that difficult to do?

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Mar 5, 2009 11:28 AM CST reply actions  

yea which kind of scares me

a lineup of
rose
gordon
salmons
tyrus
noah

the first 3 possesions can score only on one-on-one possesions, while they are pretty bad defenders. The frontline however has two guys who can defend, but can have trouble scoring the ball. If you just swich luol with salmons you really add a much needed balanced to the team. However, i think a team scheme would have to be actually implemented for that to matter. I really view us as being the knicks of yester-year except with better personalities. A bunch of great talented guys, who are playing one on one basketball…..

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Mar 5, 2009 12:22 PM CST up reply actions  

*the first three positions

not possessions….sorry

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Mar 5, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Salmons is a decent defender, and like the rest of this team, his energy is up and down depending on the night

Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 5, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree with Ozzie.

Last night he did a great job of fronting Jackson to li mit his penetration. It seems obvious to me that the inconsistencies are due more to poor coaching than a lack of energy. A knowledgable, experienced NBA coach with people skills (ala Hubie Brown) would have had this team fighting for the 5th seed with this group of players. By the way , kudos to Brad Miller who has brought knowhow and savvy to a young team in desperate need of veteran leadership. Noah’s vastly improved play and attitude has in part been a result of his trusting Miller as a resource.

Hell, I (seriously) would prefer NBA Observor over Ninnie (not a typo), with Scotter recommending player rotations. There can be no cohesion when the only thing consistent about the guy in charge is his consistent state of confusion.

If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard

by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 5, 2009 12:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Me? Coach?

I’m the King of the World!

- falls off balcony Hollywood Hills -

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Mar 5, 2009 1:06 PM CST reply actions  

Ah hell

I blew it.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Mar 5, 2009 1:07 PM CST up reply actions  

It's good to be King. Apparently it provides you with the mantle of invincibility.

I now realize taking over the Bulls would be a step down for someone of your lofty status, but I sincerely believe your observations make much more sense when compared to whatever schemes VDN is trying to execute. If you can shed some light on his philosophy, or should I say the implementation of his plan, please help us uneducated masses understand what it is..

Also, being a Tyrus sycophant since joining BaB, I would appreciate your objective analysis of his progress or lack thereof, this season. Every time I feel he is close to arriving at his potential, he seems to slip on a banana peel and regress somewhat as far as making smart decisions go. I still love his highlight film plays, but his inconsistency remains.

Does your majesty think this is due to a lack of coaching or a lack of smarts or a combination of both. Further, if miracle of miracles, he someday reaches his full potential, how high do you think it would be? As one of the admirers of your stunning intellect, this humble servant would greatly appreciate and be honored by your feedback.

If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard

by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 5, 2009 4:47 PM CST reply actions  

David Thorpe

http://www.dabullz.com

Chicago Bulls Blog and Forums. NBA Power Rankings.

by Andrew7 on Mar 5, 2009 6:05 PM CST up reply actions  

OT: Anyone want to teach me how to re-size images here?

Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 5, 2009 4:54 PM CST reply actions  

Save the photo to your computer and

use a program that compresses photos before uploading is what I would do. Microsoft Picture Manager (I think that is the name – I am away from home where I have it on my desktop) can compress a JPEG to about 1/10 its original size.

Maybe we can (but probably not)?

by Granny Waiters on Mar 5, 2009 4:59 PM CST up reply actions  

MS Picture Manager comes with Microsoft Office

If you don’t have that you can download “The Gimp”. It’s a little more technical to use, but it’s powerful for a free application.

12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Mar 5, 2009 5:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Re: Granny Waiters Q of who the hell was I talking to?

I was imploring NBA observer to answer some bball queries. If you look at his reply to my prior post (I agree with Ozzie) , he referred to himself as KING OF THE WORLD, and I responded accordingly, granting him the respect rightfully due one of such high magnitude.

Do you think I’ve been scammed and he’s not who he claims to be? Would this be similar to Vinny D describing himself as an NBA coach? If so, than I think Pax may have been conned even more than I was.

If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard

by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 5, 2009 5:59 PM CST reply actions  

Oh, come on.

It’s like insulting a pile of sticks that’s supposed to be a wall. Sure, maybe the wall’s really just a pile of sticks, but ti’s more pathetic than anything.

"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com

by Prevenge on Mar 5, 2009 7:43 PM CST up reply actions  

You do realize NBA observer and I were both joking regarding king of the world references?

However, my questions regarding Tyrus were asked in earnest because I do believe he is the most knowledgable anaylst on this blog. I also find reading Scotter’s statistical takes along with Andrew7’s game summaries to be helpful aids in forming my opinions, along with of course, the hundreds of opinions, humorous quips, well thought out insights and angry rants from the rest of the BaBr’s.

I seldom find others comments to be irritants even when they totally disagree with my own biases. Can any real Bulls fan think how pitiful and empty the coverage would be if all they had to rely on was our local beat writers or ESPN analysts.

So once again I want to thank the true king of BaB, everyones friendly bulls blogger, Matt for providing this outlet for all us diehard fans and even the casual visitor.

If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard

by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 6, 2009 1:15 AM CST reply actions  

ummm are you doing this on purpose

cuz then its kind of mean….but it could be you honestly dont know so….well there is a link/button at the bottom of a persons post. Its on the same line that the persons name is on after the date and time. It should say reply in red. If you click it a text box will open up right below the post that you want to reply to, the way your can tell is that it will indented a bit, the way your reply will be when you post it.

I know it might sound nitpicky, but it actually helps organize the comments, and more than that, people can actually respond to you alot faster because they will know someone replied to one of thier posts when they go to thier personal page.

Again im not being smart assy or anything, im thinking that you really didnt know, and if you do know about it and just arent using it, then i would ask if you could start using it, just to keep things alot smoother and organized. Plus when you reply to posts you dont have to scroll all the way to the bottom of pages you can reply to a post and still have the persons thoughts in front of you.

if you want to test it you can reply to me, heres what the line looks like just in case you are still confused:
by piccolomair on Mar 5, 2009 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
                                                                          see the reply button above ?

you should be able to see that same line at the bottom of my post after my quote, and the reply button is in red. Click it and another text box will open. I hope this was all clear enough for you….i hope you get into the habit of using this

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Mar 6, 2009 2:49 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

+1 (and yes, I used the "rec" button)

there is a link/button at the bottom of a persons post. Its on the same line that the persons name is on after the date and time. It should say reply in red.

Maybe we can (but probably not)?

by Granny Waiters on Mar 6, 2009 3:21 AM CST up reply actions  

Pic, you crack me up

That had to be one of the nicest, yet longest, “use the damn reply button” posts ever. ;)

Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!

by wjb1492 on Mar 6, 2009 11:10 AM CST up reply actions  

Only if

Only if every blog had people like pic to point these things out and help people with their posting, they all would be as easy to read as this one.

by NamingRightsOnSale on Mar 6, 2009 3:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks for the tip. I keep thinking I'm using the reply button properly, but sometimes my posts wind up in no mans land.

Instead of saying “hit the reply button, dufus”, you chose to be a gentleman. I still have no clue what the up arrow (to parent) button is for or what the “actions” button does. If you could assist me there it would be greatly appreciated.

Not to suck up, but I am a great fan of your posts, primarily because you tend to be even more long winded than I am, and also you have interesting commentaries.

If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard

by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 7, 2009 3:51 PM CST up reply actions  

the to parent one

i assume is just to see what something is in reply to – sometimes the threads can be so big they are confusing, or particularly if they get all the way to the right, they are all indented the same and you’d have no way to know which was in reply to what.

actions is to flag someone or rec it, basically if someone is trolling flag it, if you like something rec it. :)

"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"

by Jaina on Mar 7, 2009 6:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Damn

I hit the reply button right after piccolomairs post and this friggen thing still wound up in the wrong place. No entiendo.

If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. You can still call him vile names.
Elbert Hubbard

by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 7, 2009 3:53 PM CST reply actions  

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