On the suggestion of arjospeh's preview I visited the Bobcats blog Rufus on Fire, only to find this empirical graph of the game last night from the Bulls loss. Interesting to see so much of this is about the Bulls and Gordon, including this bit that pretty well sums up my perspective of "The Ben Gordon Experience" (my emphasis):
It was comical watching the game deteriorate as Gordon took more and more shots, and only after it was decided did he attempt to sling a few passes. In fact, on one play he created a turnover because nobody expected him to pass. Joakim Noah was rolling toward the goal when he saw Gordon had the ball. Noah looked up, expecting to see a shot bouncing off the rim, but instead, Gordon had jumped in the air and whizzed the ball by Noah's head, shocking everyone in the building.
The box score won't show that Gordon was terrible, only that he hit 6-15 shots and turned it over 5 times in 39 minutes. The thing is though, every time he launched another contested jumper instead of taking his time and trying to find an open teammate, it deflated his guys, and they held their heads down as they trudged back to play defense.
almost 3 years ago
mdmnd9294
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The graph needs correction.
The abscissa should be labeled “Number of Times Rose Initiates the Offense”.
Maybe we can (but probably not)?
There's no arrow heading up on that line
I’m guessing that means Hinrich can never truly be happy if Gordon takes 0 shots. Nothing pleases you Hinrich
On the flipside
Kirk will never be completely without happiness, even if Gordon’s number of shots approaches infinity. He’s a team player at heart.
I should clarify
that my endorsement of Rufus was based on the game preview; I don’t vouch for any other content. And when I deemed his encapsulation of the Bulls as “accurate,” I wasn’t claiming he got it perfectly right. He obviously has a huge (and admitted) fan-crush on Hinrich, and aggrandized his value a bit in my opinion in the preview (and that’s obviously coloring his anti-crush on Gordon here).
Less about Hinrich, more about Gordon
For me, the name of the player on the Y-axis of this is irrelavant – this much more about Ben Gordon. To borrow from Granny, you could replace “Kirk Hinrich’s joy” with “Number of Times Derrick Rose Initiates the offense” – since that goes down to as Gordon refuses to yeild the ball to Rose in many cases. In fact, Hinrich isn’t even mentioned in the segment I quoted.
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy
But yes, I realize Hinrich is mentioned elsewhere in the piece
such as bemoaning the fact that Kirk had to guard Radmonovich
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy
I DO fully endorse RufusOnFire
It’s one of my favorite blogs.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 4, 2009 1:20 PM CST up reply actions
You know, cuz that's never happened to Noah, or anyone else, before. Ever. EVER!!!
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
as I said on that blog
who cares about Kirk Hinrich?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 4, 2009 1:00 PM CST reply actions
i read that
and thought “oh matt…your such a kidder…”
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Ya know,
We all know you feel that way, and you pretty much know who doesn’t. But if it makes you feel better, keep throwing it out there. ;)
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
it's a rhetorical question
I know who cares about Kirk Hinrich. They’re an annoying minority. The point being the BULLS shouldn’t care about Kirk Hinrich, as much as the Hornets don’t care about Antonio Daniels.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 4, 2009 1:17 PM CST up reply actions
Minority
Thats like saying hispanics are a minority in America (not meant to be a racial insult in anyway)
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
huh?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 4, 2009 1:29 PM CST up reply actions
Theres alot of hinrich fans out there
maybe not as hardcore as the more vocal ones here, but there are quite a bit out there, especially those who know hinrich from his days as a jayhawk. So i was comparing you calling hinrich fans a minority in the nba fan world as the equivilant as calling hispanics a minority in the u.s (again not a racial insult or anything)
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
hmm
the fact that i had to explain all that probably proves how lame of a comment that really was….sorry
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
I didn't think it was lame.
Maybe a bit abstruse, but it got the point across well that not all minority groups are of the same size or exposure, that some minority groups can be pretty significant.
The point, though, is not whether a majority/minority likes Hinrich. For all we know Matt could be wrong and a majority of Bulls fans like Kirk. That doesn’t mean that he fits the organization’s plan going forward.
i thought he was just talking about
the hinrich love is a minority on this site.
there’s a few vocal hinrich lovers, but most other people seem to feel lukewarm about him at best.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
yes, I meant this site.
a majority of total Bulls fans eat paste.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 4, 2009 2:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
LOL
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
But those jersey sales numbers matter
to Jerry “Cash Flow” Reinsdorf.
Maybe we can (but probably not)?
by Granny Waiters on Mar 4, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions
You say such nice things to us, Matt.
Obviously it’s a rhetorical question – I mean, there wasn’t a poll attached or anything….
(Just doing my best to live up to that annoying part!)
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
My first thought as well
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
I like what you said here
every time he launched another contested jumper instead of taking his time and trying to find an open teammate, it deflated his guys
I’m a Gordon fan, but it does seem to happen that whenever he starts throwing up bricks the Bulls never recover.
When he starts doing that, he becomes That Guy in your local pickup game who thinks he’s way better than he actually is, demands the ball and tells his teammates to spread the floor, then drives into three defenders and puts up a heinous shot and screams for a foul that wasn’t there. His teammates all look at each other on the way back down the court shaking their heads like “what’s the point”.
I agree with that in principle
though it just shows a bigger problem: that the Bulls are playing pick-up basketball.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 4, 2009 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
And I think that's on our captains
If Luol or Kirk were capable of telling Gordon off, that wouldn’t be an issue.
It's also on the coach, though, too.
Maybe we could actually run some plays for Gordon, you know? Like integrate him into the offense, run him off picks like Detroit does for Rip, create some motion with the sets. This would get people accostomed to an atmosphere where a Gordon-centric offense doesn’t mean stand-and-watch.
(Alas, it’s way too late for something like this. While I’m not the biggest fan of Gordon’s style of play, and I have my doubts about his ability to not revert to some me-first stuff when pressured — he’s well aware of his shot-making talents, much like a Nate Robinson, and you’re not going to deflate that confidence in him — it’s hard for me to completely blame him, too. He may or may not be compatible with our team concept, but we’re not really testing it very rigorously, you know?)
no, I think it's more having a scheme, a direction, or giving a care about the team in general
because since it is pickup ball, might as well have Gordon dominate the ball and give everyone else frowny faces, since he’s the team’s best offensive player.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 4, 2009 2:12 PM CST up reply actions
He's the team's best *scorer*, without a doubt, but
I wouldn’t call him the team’s best offensive player
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy
Crap - I should have expected that question!
Sadly, I don’t think I have a good answer. I think it is (or soon will be) D Rose. By now I hoped it would be Deng or Tyrus. Perhaps a better way to say it is I don’t like to think that Gordon is the best offensive player on this team, because I prefer that guy to make things easier for the other 4 guys on the floor and BG just does not do that. Maybe it’s more a statement about how bad the Bulls are if he is the best offensive player on the team.
IMHO, Gordon does nothing offensively for anyone but Gordon. He scores points (which do help the team), but it’s exceedlingly rare when he does anything that facilitates offense for other players on the floor with him. Things like exploiting mismatches, commanding double teams, using the flow of the offense, ball rotation, penetration that opens things up for others. And he ends up taking a lot of bad shots – some of which go in contributing to his legend. But it’s all about BG ending up with a shot.
His hands are where possessions go to die; sometimes gloriously, sometimes tragically.
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy
If Luol or Kirk were capable of winning games without Gordon launching up a bunch of shots
There wouldn’t be an issue.
They’re not (at least in this offense), which leads to Gordon having to take a lot of shots because in a pick-up style of play, he’s the best option. When he makes them, we win or come close. When he doesn’t, we look like ass and he looks like ass.
But Gordon has been here five seasons and despite what people think, he’s demonstrated that he can play in an offense with other players.
His best season still came as a 23-year-old when Hinrich and Deng and the team...
…had their best seasons. You’re absolutely correct. Ben Gordon is a very, very, very, very good offensive player, regardless of scheme.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
Thanks, but that quote came from the "Rufus" blog originally
I linked to it in the original post, but Blockquote doesn’t work in the “Image” Fan Shot format – at least it didn’t for me.
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy
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