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Report Cards and Parent-Blogger Conferences: Pt.1

I just finished my first round of parent-teacher conferences, where I was able to provide parents with a clear idea of their children's strengths and weaknesses before coming up with a game plan for the rest of the semester. This got me thinking: if the Bulls were my class, what would grades would I give them, and what would I tell their parents (i.e. Pax and the front office crew)? Admittedly, the report card shtick is overdone, but Vinny's done such a crappy job with this that I would consider giving my first born for a one-on-one. I've included some former players just for the hell of it, and also because there are only seven or eight current Bulls that actually could be considered "players." Now then, let me put on my teacher hat and get us started.

For part one, let's start with the current starters (no crappy pun intended, honestly):

 

Star-divide

Joakim Noah - B -

THE GOOD:

Admittedly, I was not exactly thrilled back in '07 when the Bulls picked what at the time looked like a 6-11 Bozo the Clown impersonator, and his first season offered little more than drama and frustration. Starting the season behind Aaron Gray in the pecking order didn't exactly put that frustration to rest, but the progress he has made lately has been respectable. Noah's faster than most bigs, and his rebound rate of 7 boards per half game is impressive. He's a good guy to have in the fast break and good for a few tip-ins and alley-oops, and his defense has been pretty decent as well.

THE BAD:

Noah still doesn't have that great of a jumper, and stronger, more physical bigs have destroyed him at times (Kendrick Perkins has had some career nights against Jo). He definitely needs to bulk up, and his help defense is still developing.

CONFERENCE TIME:

"Your kid's got some serious ADHD, but he's got potential. When he's not getting into trouble, he's worth having around. Get him to cut the head pubes, pack him another baloney sandwich in his lunchbox to bulk him up, and give him some more minutes."

TYRUS THOMAS - B -

THE GOOD:

I have certainly had my share of "If only we'd taken Aldridge" moments, but my feelings about TT are kind of like those relationships you see on COPS. You know, whn some trailer trash gut with a beer gut and a mullet is being dragged in hand cuffs for jacking some toothless chick in a neon green tube top, only for her to drop the charges at the end while screaming "I know Joe Bob abuses me, but ah love him!" He'll shoot 20% one night and show about as much fight as Snuggle, but when you see him swat shots into the fifth row and execute that perfect alley-oop with Rose, it's love all over again. His jumper has improved a great deal, and he's finally starting to crash the boards with some semblance of regularity. Tyrus has always been a decent defender, and he's gradually shaping into a very good defensive presence. I've had to change my pants after some of his block parties, and he's making lots of players think twice before bringing that weak sauce into his kitchen.

THE BAD:

The man's inconsistent, it's as simple as that. That potential comes and goes too often, and the first half of the season was fairly disappointing for Tyrus. His jumper, although greatly improved, still needs some work, and he settles for the jumper too much when he should try to use that freakish athleticism to take it to the hole. Stronger bigs also tend to pose some problems for Tyrus, so bulking up would be a good idea.

CONFERENCE TIME:

"Your kid has potential, but he needs to use it all the time. He's somewhat of a slow learner as well. For example, I tell him to run over to the wastebasket and stuff the trash in, but he throws up garbage from twenty feet and misses. I sometimes wish he could be a bit more like little LaMarcus, but he's got such outstanding potential, and he's starting to show it more often. Get him to hit the books and make sure he eats all his vegetables so he gets big and strong."

John Salmons - B+

THE GOOD:

Salmons has proven to be a great addition, scoring in bunches and taking some pressure off BG. His one-on-one defense is solid, and he offers some versatility for a team that lacks depth. He's excellent at finding ways to score, and he can hurt defenses by slashing or creating his own shot. An excellent pick-up, and he deserves to hold on to that starting spot when (if?) Deng returns.

THE BAD:

Salmons is fairly one-dimensional, even if that dimension is important and he has excelled in it. His help defense is only average, and the man just can't rebound. This is a career year for him, and although I expect him to be a good scoring option for a few more years, the 20 ppg average is going to go down.

CONFERENCE TIME:

"Johnny has fit in very well with his classmates, and he gets high scores even on the toughest tests. He deserves to stay in this school, so make sure he comes back next year. And don't let little Luol try to tell him he's going to take Johnny's place, because it's not happening.

Ben Gordon - B

THE GOOD:

Like Salmons, he's one-dimensional, but he's so damn good at that one dimension, and you need to score to win. Not many guys can create their own shot like him, and he gets scary hot at times. He'll be good for at least 20 ppg for years to come, and he shoots for a high percentage. His defense has also developed a bit, and he's been one of the Bulls' most consistent performers this year. He's also got poise in clutch situations, which is an exteremly valuable asset of his.

THE BAD:

This one-trick pony can't do a whole lot else but score. His defense may have improved, but it's still mediocre, and his passing and ball handling are below average for a guy his size. His decision-making skills are questionable, like when he chose to go for isolation for about twelve seconds and assassinated the offensive flow against Bosh in the overtime loss when passing looked the better option.

CONFERENCE TIME:

"Ben is very dependable in class, and his high scoring is very consistent. At times, I'd like to see him show some more skills and play better with others, but he's an important member of the class. We'd like to keep him next year, but he seems to think he deserves more than his fair share, and he has to remember that we can't have a good class unless everybody gets a share of the paper."

Derrick Rose - A-

THE GOOD:

What a complete package. This guy has ridiculous poise for his age, and he's great at making decisions. The kid has a pretty decent shot, and his defense is improving. He gets into the lane with ease, and he's a natural finisher. His quickness is just plain sick, and his passes are spot-on. His victory in the All-Star Skills Competition looked effortless, and he's a born leader. He's also an incredibly hard worker, crashing the boards and fighting his way to the basket every night. Rose is a big reason that the offense has improved, as his penetration draws extra defenders and allows him to free up his teammates for good looks. This kid's the future of this franchise.

THE BAD:

He's a rookie, so the occasional off night is to be expected. His outside jumper is good, but he needs it to improve to take his offensive game to the next level. His defense also needs to improve before he can truly be included in the elite ranks with Deron Williams and Chris Paul.

CONFERENCE TIME:

"This kid's gonna make something of himself. He gets high scores, he plays well with others, and he's a real leader. He's a hard worker, always trying to keep the boards clean and helping others to do better. Give him a pat on the head and keep him happy."

Vinny Del Negro - D

THE GOOD:

I believe I speak for most Bulls fans in saying that expectations were not very high going into this year. I personally felt that they would finish anywhere from 7th to 10th, so he has the team right about where I expected them to be

THE BAD:

Those expectations (for me, at least) were low in great part because I thought Derrick Rose would need much more time to settle in and adjust to the NBA game. Rose was ready, and the Bulls actually have gotten some production from their bigs this year. Despite all this, the Bulls are right where they were last year, playing mediocre and inconsistent basketball. When the Bulls were good a few years ago, they specialized in defense, and they could count on that specialization in a pinch. The current group has no dependable specialty other than undpredicatbility, and by definition you can't really depend on that (I think I just blew my own mind typing that, but it almost makes sense).

CONFERENCE TIME:

"Vinny's trying hard, but he's struggling. He's met my minimum expectations, but he's done little else. He has done just enough to stay in school for next year, but he's going to have to show some progress if he wants to stay in school for the full year."

 

How are my assessments? Are they spot-on, or do I need to do some more studying? What grades would you give this group? Feel free to make comments, and look for part 2 to come shortly.

 

 

 

FanPosts are user-created posts from the BlogABull community, and are to be treated as the opinions and views of that particular user, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.

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So im thinking kirk hinrich got expelled

;-)

and what of the super senior brad miller?

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Mar 30, 2009 5:41 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Looks like he was just doing the starting lineup.

And our boob of a coach.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Mar 30, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nah

He is just busy with his day job.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Mar 30, 2009 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look for Part 2

I’ve got some choice words for those guys, but expulsion’s looking likely for Kirk.

by T-Boogie on Mar 30, 2009 5:43 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think hinrich is in need for a transfer as opposed to expulsion

hes a good kid, but kind of like that snobby kid from the rich white neigborhood. He may be fine in a different place, but here he seems to have gotten on some peoples bad side and is often ridiculed and left out of group activities. Despite the teachers trying to get him to fit in, it seems like the students dont want him, and the school is going through some budget cuts and might have to shorten the number of students anyway.

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Mar 30, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which players don't like Hinrich?

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Mar 30, 2009 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good Question

I agree with the rest of that comparison, but the players DO seem to like Kirk. Personality-wise, he’s been fitting in since day 1, but his skills don’t fit this group of players.

by T-Boogie on Mar 30, 2009 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was talking more

by media perspective, if you would personify the media as the student body as a whole….

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Mar 30, 2009 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

change "whole" to majority....

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Mar 30, 2009 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Noting on Del Negro

It would be interesting to see how Gordon would be under a better coach. He is clearly one of the best players off catch and shoot situations, but we only run a few of those plays a game. If we had a coach who ran some good plays for Gordon where he could catch and shoot, he could evolve as a scorer further.

http://www.dabullz.com

Chicago Bulls Blog and Forums. NBA Power Rankings.

by Andrew7 on Mar 30, 2009 6:55 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

We have Reggie Miller.

Let’s iso him!!

Joakim Noah: Better than you.

by Prevenge on Mar 30, 2009 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is Ben that bad when it comes to handling and passing ability?

I dunno I think with his role he does that a good amount.
And I thought hes been the most consistent player this season.

by Camry on Mar 31, 2009 1:18 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I was watching a Rose

highlight reel earlier and Ben had a couple of great passes in transition to Rose just documented there. He does pass and does so in some of our best plays this year. People just gloss over it though. In some people’s minds he never passes in transition and never passes back to Rose. Which isn’t the case. He has dumped it off to Tyrus and Noah inside a lot too for good finishes. Meh.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Mar 31, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I said "below average," not "pooptastic"

I came so close to giving him a B+ and probably should have. But just because he makes some nice passes (and he does) doesn’t mean he’s a good, consistent passer. That being said, his passing isn’t bad per se, and, Camry, I do agree with you that he has been the most consistent performer. I think I actually said that within the post.

by T-Boogie on Mar 31, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

highlight reel passes does not equal good passing

Ben can make some flashy passes, but i would think in general when you talk about a good passer you mean someone who can catch guys where the defense breaks down, a guy who can make accurate passes at the right time consistantly. I think gordons style of play prevents him from being able to be that, so though he may have those skills to make good passes, he often chooses not to, and often seems like he has tunnel vision, being able to see nothing but the rim. So id agree with the concept of gordon not being a great passer. Same with ball handling, i only want gordon to put the ball on the floor when he is attacking the basket or using a screen, at any other point i cringe.

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Mar 31, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i really think he's an adequate passer

probably average, not below average. but his handle certainly makes me cringe.

"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"

by Jaina on Mar 31, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He is a SG.

We don’t need him to be PG pt 2. When you pass to your SG you often want him to shoot. Not pass the hot potato around some more. If he passes a reasonable amount of time as a SG then that is good enough. I only mentioned the highlight real because it has captured a few of his passes that people could easily access if they don’t believe it. He does more than just those obviously. I’ve been trying to pay more attention to his passing and he does participate in ball movement. It doesn’t always stop at him.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Mar 31, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dont think he passes a reasonable ammount of time

which is why i dont think he is a good passer. Im not even talking about fast break blunders, how many times is he contested, has someone open but decides he rather start dribbling and going against his guy one on one. Not even considering what ultimately comes of it (points or turnover) i dont even think he is a selfish person, but he just gets tunnel vision, he sees the rim he sees a chance and he doesnt see all else. I have a friend who is like that, great guy, great friend, and isnt a ball hog in the sense that he thinks im gonna score cuz i dont want to trust anyone else, its more he doesnt hear or see other players to his side or behind him calling for the ball.

But having that sort of “disorder” limits his passing ability, and there are also numerous times when gordons passed the ball DIRECTLY into the hands of the defenders, or when he drives gets trapped and JUMPS AND PASSES to someone….ill go with jaina and say that potentially he is an average passer, but if he only passes once in a while and half are highlights and the others are turnovers, i think you are forced to objectively consider that at best this player is somewhere in between….at best…

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Mar 31, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

All of our guards do those things.

Pass balls to defenders, jump in the air and gets stuck, dribble into infinity etc etc. None of them do it in every game. Gordon doesn’t do it in every game. They all do it from time to time. Those are just things guards sometimes do considering the type of ball handling they have to do.

Gordon would have to be a turnover disaster if he is as you describe but he isn’t. Watch him pass during a game and you will find he typically passes within the offense and rotates the ball to the open guy, doesn’t take a shot every time it comes to him, makes good plays from time to time (he actually dishes to Noah more often this year), and does what you’d reasonably expect a SG who is our best shooter would do with the ball. He does go in isolation and occationally gets trapped, but our other guards get trapped and it doesn’t end in successful pass out all the time. Our team has a history of not helping teammates out that are trapped and stand around not coming to the ball like they should. That happens to all of our guards and happened to Rose in the last game. Gordon typically does one of the above once a game and we all roll our eyes but our other guards usually do one of the above every game as well. I’d say all of our guards are above average. We don’t have a bad passer in the bunch and none of them are particularly turnover prone for more than a game here or there. Definitely not a career trend.

I think we are just going to have to disagree on this. I am never going to say he is an excellent passer because he is a SG and we don’t really need him to be with how our team is set up, but I wouldn’t single that skill out as a trouble point for any of our current guards.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Mar 31, 2009 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Okay, Tyger, be nice:

What, kind sir, do you consider passing “a reasonable amount of time?” Here is a list of SG’s who pass more and better than Ben Gordon (they are listed in order of AST% w/ that in parentheses):

1 – Dwyane Wade (40.3)
2 – Joe Johnson (26.6)
3 – Brandon Roy (25.4)
4 – Kobe Bryant (25.4)
5 – Vince Carter (23.2)
6 – Ben Gordon (16.6)
7 –
8 –
9 –
10 -

If you want to include the likes of Jason Terry or Nate Robinson, you’re perfectly willing. However, keep in mind a few things: A) Gordon would still be Top-10 in SG’s who pass, B) if this were Hinrich we were discussing (who has his lowest AST% of his career-down roughly 6 percentage), you’d certainly point that he has “poor shooters” around him and C) this offense is not really designed for assists.

So, I ask you, my dearest young man, what is that shows you Gordon is such a bad passer, or at the most, passing a reasonable amount? Is it the numbers? Or is it your anti-Gordon bias that skews any objective view you have of him?

More importantly: What clearly UNREASONABLE standard do you hold Gordon to and when will you EVER let it go? When will you, in fact, become reasonable regarding Ben Gordon?

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Mar 31, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dont think im being biased

I am not saying ben gordon is a horrible passer, but i dont think he is a great passer by any standard. Im not looking at assists, because an assist has as much to do with the guy scoring as it doest with a guy passing, im talking about the ability to pass the ball. Theres an actual skill to it you know. Gordon attracts double teams, and when he gets doubled he usually does pass it out, i mean what else is he gonna do, and he usually passes it to that guy whos open. But does that make him a good passer?

….okay…ill make a deal with you….the last game of the season is on wednessday, ill be able to join in on the gamethread that day (i know its a long time from now but its the only day i will actually be free to join the game thread) we can watch the game and converse about gordon and the times he chooses to pass, we could do it on other games too (that may be replayed on comcast) but that is if i happen to have the chance to watch the game.

I know you probably wont like this idea, i know you hate my idea of watching the game and i understand your reasons, but surely watching a guy pass the ball is something that can be observed cant it? If you dont agree to these terms then i can simply concede because i really dont know how else i can win this argument against you…thats not a knock on you, but more probably a knock on my own ability to argue against numbers

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Mar 31, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How can you possibly say you're not biased against Gordon?

You’re madly in love with Kirk Hinrich the player (who, for some reason, seems to be pitted against Gordon by the organization, the media, BAB), you constantly come to negative conclusions about Gordon’s abilities without a lick of empirical, objective evidence.

God, at least admit you’re biased against Gordon. Then everything would be easier to swallow.

(and no, I don’t like the idea because commenting on individual plays is a horrible way of making conclusive, true value, long-term analysis. If Gordon makes a simple pass where Noah hits a wide open layup, it’s bunk, garbage, no one cares. But if he makes a pass that is intercepted OHMYGODBENGORDONTURNOVER!!!! (let’s not forget we should actually label that a Hinrich TO because he seems to dribble down the wing, jump and throw the ball right to the opposing teams lately))

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Mar 31, 2009 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

hmmm

do you have any statistical evidence that im being biased against gordon? or is it simply observation?

Also, just because im a hinrich fan doesnt mean im anti gordon…and i said gordon is at best an average passer. But wait thats gordon bashing? And your last point, can be said about hinrich too, but im sure your not being biased, you are infallable…

You really made a mistake when you responded to my post. You knew who i was, you already have a preconcieved notion of where i stand on topics, and yet you reply to me, not wanting to understand what i say, wanting me to just accept your numbers as truth, and then have the gall to go further and make assumptions about where im coming from?! You purposely try to be a douche…and i dont get why

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Mar 31, 2009 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I want you to accept that you're bias and subjective...

…and have no interest in being otherwise.

I’m not infallible; I’ve admitted plenty of times that I’ve been wrong about things. I’ve change my mind. Stop projecting.

You’re right, too: Hinrich-fan /= anti-Gordon. wjb loves Hinrich (as a player) and realizes Gordon’s contributions and is objective in her analysis of him. You and sue do/are not.

Your first sentence—you tried to be funny. That’s funny.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 1, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i refuse to accept im being bias or subjective

when im not….

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Apr 1, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

II have not

been a fan of Ben since I started watching the Bulls. It has nothing to do with me being a fan of Kirk.

by sue369 on Apr 2, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You don't know

as much as you think you do. I’m a huge fan of Tyrus, Derrick and Noah. I’m also enjoying watching Slamons and Miller too.

by sue369 on Apr 6, 2009 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Woo Noah!

:D

Joakim Noah: Better than you.

by Prevenge on Apr 7, 2009 2:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can "win an argument" by not sticking with 100% subjective analysis...

…by someone who is not a professional scout—in fact, a high schooler or college student (that’s you) to make your points.

Either get a scout’s opinion (more than one is preferred) that has much more of a clue than you do, or use objective analysis. It doesn’t take much.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Mar 31, 2009 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yup, college student-teacher (that's me),

not a scout, like you said. And I agree that my opinion is certainly a terrible way to back up an argument. It’s just a starting point for discussion, nothing more.

by T-Boogie on Mar 31, 2009 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was never responding to you.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 1, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

excuse me for having an oppinion

?

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Mar 31, 2009 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You asked how you could "win an argument".

Opinions don’t win arguments. You will learn this someday.

I am sorry for engaging you in an argument/discussion. I’m realizing that you don’t really want to learn anything new. You have asked before how you can—where to go for stats, etc—but it’s becoming obvious to me (yes, i’m that thick), you have no real interest in gaining an objective understanding of basketball.

There is subjective bias in all basketball analysis; this is understood by most everyone: me, yfBB, Scotter, Sports2, fundamentallysound, wjb, whomever, we all have it. Sometimes we completely discard any objective reasoning because we simply “like” watching a player. Sometimes we want to have a more intelligent discussion about what we’re talking about so we’ll turn to more objective eyes than just “what I see with my eyes”… knowing that, as fans, our subjective opinion is not all that great. But even the choosing of statistics we might use to form our opinion injects subjective bias. How you can possibly say that you, who uses zero objective analysis, have no bias bewilders me.

So I’ll stop responding to you. I thought you once wanted to learn something. But I’ve come to realize that you have your opinions and that’s that and they’ll never change and you’ll never learn and you’ll gladly stay stuck in the mud of ignorance. So I apologize for taking you at your word that you actually wanted to learn something. I’ll not bother you again.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Apr 1, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

good

thats all i ask…

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!

by piccolomair on Apr 1, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who, me?

Gordon’s been our best player after Rose this year, and the best on numerous occasions. I also didn’t mean to say he doesn’t pass ENOUGH (he’s a shooter, so he should and does look for his shot first). That being said, with his quickness, i think he could free up space and hit open guys when defenders try to gain up on him. Again, if he still can score (which he does quite well even with pressure from multiple players), great. But his passes, to me, and this is pure speculation, just don’t pose that much of a threat (and I don’t mean assists, those are irrelevant for his playing style). I have no complaints with BG’s performance this year, and I think it’s been his best season yet.

by T-Boogie on Mar 31, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

not you.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Mar 31, 2009 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Giving Joakim Noah a B- when he's been one of our best players

all year (with the exception of the first month when he was not getting minutes and was supposedly out of shape) pretty much disqualifies this post from serious consideration.

Stats with contextual observations, good. Stats with no context, bad. Anecdotal observations unsupported by data, the worst.

by fundamentallysound on Mar 31, 2009 2:35 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

he was out of shape for more than the first month...

…he didn’t really get into decent shape until around the All-Star break. And as much as he’s been “one of our best players”, he’s still been inconsistent at times. I think a “B-” is spot on for him.

http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/

by NormVanBeer on Mar 31, 2009 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, unless you go back and look at his production in November (look at Scotter's BoP posts)

and see how ridiculously well he was playing. Tough to do that when you’re out of shape, probably a safe bet he was back in shape by November, not some nonsense about all-star break.

Stats with contextual observations, good. Stats with no context, bad. Anecdotal observations unsupported by data, the worst.

by fundamentallysound on Mar 31, 2009 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unless you consider that the team as a whole has been bad,

and that comes in part because, although Noah has been one of our biggest contributors, he has been little more than an average starting center in the league. Hence the B -. As for the “all year” argument, I will just disagree and move on.

by T-Boogie on Mar 31, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's been a top 6 center in the league and he's just a second year player. I don't know what else you

can expect of him.

Stats with contextual observations, good. Stats with no context, bad. Anecdotal observations unsupported by data, the worst.

by fundamentallysound on Mar 31, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

check it out here:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/tiny.cgi?id=SS5Q0

The only players with more WinShares at the C position have been Dwight, Yao, Shaq, and Biedrins. Horford is on the list, but he’s a PF masquerading as a C, and his greater number of Winshares is due to playing 300 more minutes than Noah thus far. If you gave Noah the same amount of minutes Horford has gotten, based on his production thus far, he would have 6.5 WinShares to Horford’s 5.9. So really Noah is a TOP 5 Center in the league and he’s only a second year player. That’s an A effort in my book, call me crazy.

Stats with contextual observations, good. Stats with no context, bad. Anecdotal observations unsupported by data, the worst.

by fundamentallysound on Mar 31, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Noah has done well,

and I’m not expecting the world of him. Again, that rebound rate is fantastic, and his offensive play has been very good lately (he knows what he’s good at and avoids doing what he can’t do). However, consistency, to me, seems a bit of an issue (Yahoo split stats show how he does against specific teams, providing a quick gauge for consistency). As far as using WinShares to rank centers, I’m not positive how their calculated, but I do see that they are essentially estimates. As far as second year production goes, yea, he’s been good, but I wouldn’t say great (he was a lottery pick, so expectations should be fairly high, shouldn’t they?). For a team with a losing record, I could only see one A in this lot, and that’s Rose.

by T-Boogie on Mar 31, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was a number 9 pick, so no expectations shouldn't really be all that high at all

Most picks bust, and even more picks outside of the top 5 bust. So you should be damned happy that we got someone who’s in the top 10 at his position already as a second year player in the 9th spot in the draft.

Stats with contextual observations, good. Stats with no context, bad. Anecdotal observations unsupported by data, the worst.

by fundamentallysound on Mar 31, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also, I am going to get flamed for this because he's only a rookie

but to me, to give Rose an A- ahead of some of the other guys on the team is just a joke.

He’s been comically bad on the defensive end this year. He’s made a lot of highlight reel plays on offense, but he hasn’t been extremely efficient at scoring the ball, and for a kid with his size and athleticism at the PG slot, he doesn’t rebound the ball particularly well.

Oh, and he’s been down right awful at getting to the line, which is something that should be a guy with his slashing ability’s bread and butter. So yeah, not really an A- effort in my book.

Stats with contextual observations, good. Stats with no context, bad. Anecdotal observations unsupported by data, the worst.

by fundamentallysound on Mar 31, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Would you mind giving some grades?

Seriously, and I don’t mean this as a “challenge,” I just want to see what someone else would grade these guys. That goes for anybody reading this comment.

by T-Boogie on Mar 31, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I actually don't like the concept of giving "grades" in the first place. There are too many shades of gray

in evaluating players to evaluate them based on a A, B, C, D, F grading scale.

Stats with contextual observations, good. Stats with no context, bad. Anecdotal observations unsupported by data, the worst.

by fundamentallysound on Mar 31, 2009 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you were dead-on in regards to his defense and drawing contact/free-throws

so you won’t be getting “flamed”…. but please consider the position of PG and all the responsibilities that comes with this leader-ship position, for a play-off team, in the basketball-Mecca of Chicago. Again, his on-the-ball defense has been suspect, and he should have more steals. And getting to the line should occur more frequent, especially with his talents/explosiveness. But that aggressiveness comes with a learning curve.

But I would NOT question his ability to rebound the ball…. I believe he’s in the top 3 for PG rebounding… And he’s still a rookie! Also, I believe he’s stepped it up to 6 rpg in the last month…

Again, I agree with the two other arguments, and overall, I think T-Boogie’s A- grade was correct. He has developed his mid-range shot over the season, something that shows he’s progressing during the season

by yetti on Apr 12, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's relative???

except, of course, that’s not the highest grade given out.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Mar 31, 2009 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right

But I wanted a clear way to say “X is better than Y” without just coming out and saying it. Hence “relative” grading.

by T-Boogie on Mar 31, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's relative, but he gave Tim Fucking Thomas an A+.

and he gave Tyrus the same grade, when Noah has been much better than Tyrus all year.

Stats with contextual observations, good. Stats with no context, bad. Anecdotal observations unsupported by data, the worst.

by fundamentallysound on Mar 31, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tim Thomas is not truly an A+,

that was mostly just an insult to Big Shot Larry and a kudos to the front office for getting something for nothing (i.e. someone who will play for someone who would not). His actual grade would be a helluva lot lower if I based it on his production (as in the D range, most likely). As for our ongoing Noah debate, that’s just what it is, a debate. You clearly think he is better than I give him credit for, and he might be. In the future, he’s going to get better, and I’m confident he’ll be a very good starting center for us, but, as of now, I don’t think he’s there quite yet. But again, we’ll have to agree to disagree.

by T-Boogie on Mar 31, 2009 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But he is a good starting center for us. Now.

He produces and defends well and converts inside at a high rate. What else do you want? Shaq?
See sig.

Joakim Noah: Better than you.

by Prevenge on Mar 31, 2009 8:11 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Recced just for your sig.

Stats with contextual observations, good. Stats with no context, bad. Anecdotal observations unsupported by data, the worst.

by fundamentallysound on Mar 31, 2009 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am sorry

stats with no context are infinitely more dangerous than anecdotal observations. If people made interesting immanent observations about their experiences watching basketball, this site would be done a great service and would gain a dimension of readability.

by McCabe on Apr 3, 2009 4:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Joakim Noah: Better than me

Now there’s something I can agree with

by T-Boogie on Mar 31, 2009 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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