But, this wouldn’t happen for another year. Who knows how well Rose or Deng will be shooting the 3. As Wade ages I expect he would become more of a 3-point shooter as well, and even now he has to be respected behind the arc. Tyrus’s shot should be even better a year from now. And the bench can be full of 3-point shooters. I definitely wouldn’t swap out Noah for Barganani. The point of this is defensive dominance, and transition offense out of a defense that controls the defensive boards and forces turnovers. Noah is a bigger part of that.

This whole scenario is probably pie in the sky, but it’s the best result that seems feasible to me. And I’ve thought about it enough that I figured I would risk posting it.

I do not in anyway think Hinrich is anything close to a better player than Gordon. If the Bulls didn’t get a bunch of offense at the trade deadline, I would still be gnashing my teeth over Gordon getting screwed by management. Here’s why I let Gordon walk.

1)Letting Gordon walk is the simplest financial solution. Clearing the necessary cap space is likely too convoluted to be worth the effort. Doug Thonus’s Ben Gordon game proved that.

2)The way I’e interpreted the salary picture if somehow stays that pretty much means Tyrus eventually goes. Otherwise there won’t be enough cleared cap space. I choose Tyrus over Gordon.

3This is heavily connected to #2. )As much as I love Ben, the Rose and Gordon hasn’t worked out as well as I would have liked. Unless it was a great contract, I wouldn’t fell totally good about being locked into Gordon for 5 or 6 years. Unless you have a true dominant player, SG is the least important position on the floor and easiest filled. Hinrich’s contract will end before Gordon’s new one, and Hinrich’s ends exactly when it’s time to pay Rose so his contract works well financially.

4)Finding a starting SG to go with Rose and Hinrich off the bench is a lot easier than a third guard to go with Rose and Gordon. For example, I believe Rose, Salmons, Hinrich fits better than Rose, Gordon, and Salmons, which in my mind makes up for some of the difference in ability between Hinrich and Gordon.

5) As Tyger and I discussed, I’m partial to the idea of giving guys like Tyrus a season to assert themselves on offensive before signing a star free agent. That won’t happen with Ben on the roster.

:)

Thta’s just so weird.

If it’s clear Tyrus is going to be difficult to resign this summer then maybe you go ahead and deal him for Bosh or Stoudemire because his cap hold is big enough that he’d probably have to be let go or traded in the summer of 2010 anyway to sign a max contract free agent because they’ll want to sign at the beginning of the free agent period.

If Thomas is signed and Wade doesn’t come then the Bulls still have around 20 million in cap space to use. So they can go try and go after Bosh or Stoudemire and either sign a mid-level SG or make a trade to fill the SG spot. Or they could sign Joe Johnson if he’ll come at a decent price, I don’t think I would max him out. And then spend the left over money on depth in the front court or to facilitate a trade to upgrade somewhere else. There’s options that wouldn’t be disastrous if Wade resigns. The risk of letting Gordon walk and waiting until the summer and still missing out on Wade is worth it in my mind.

and have also been dreaming about a Wade/Rose backcourt, but both prettymuch need the ball in their hands, no?

I think the 30 minutes by the two of them, on most nights where the team will run, run, run, is easily feasible. Having guys like Asik and/or Miller plus someone like DeJuan Blair or something similar in bulk and rebounding and defense is needed, though. You’ll occasionally go up against the guys that Thomas and Noah just can’t handle either on offense or defense, and having the backups would be good for that. I don’t think there’s any need to necessarily right the two off right now as a starting PF/C combo.

Gordon hasn’t been standing around shooting 3s and playing off Rose. Gordon has been going off the dribble or getting the ball off of designed plays. Gordon and Rose playing relatively well with each other is what convinced me it would work.

Let’s deal with your pieces 1st.
Salmons isn’t a piece, and he’s definitely not a SF on a championship contender. Yes, it’s fun watching him go 1 on 1 sometimes, but that only takes you so far. His rebounding, poor team defense, and 1 on 1 style are eventually limiting factors, especially at SF. Plus you want him to opt out of his contract. Guys you hope will opt out aren’t pieces.

Bosh is neither a back to basket player or a center. He’s a face up PF. And once again back to the basket scoring doesn’t come with magic dust. Do you have a player that can score in the post is a good question? Do you have a player that get points when the team needs them is a better question?

There’s a world of difference between being a dominant player and being one of the top 5 players in the NBA like Wade. Expecting Rose to be the best player on the floor in an NBA semi-finals is a lot to expect in the next 3-5 years. Who demands more defensive attention? Bosh or Wade? Can you remember what is was like to have the best player on the floor in the playoffs? To have gold medal blue ribbon super duper superstar or whatever those silly championship studies call them.

The last combo that worked like Wade/Rose was Jordan and Pippen the 1st time around. Two perimeter players that were awesome in the open court. A guy who demanded the defense’s attention and a guy that ran the offense and slashed to the basket as a secondary scorer. There’s no reason to get hung up on historical PG and SG combos. How many back courts have ever been as talented as Wade/Rose would be? Isiah and Dumars don’t come close.

about it. If they make a genuine effort to sign Thomas and don’t come to terms then I can get on board with trading Thomas. Unlike Ben Gordon there seem to be enough contract precedents for a player like Thomas for his agent to have a good idea of his market value so I have some hope that a deal could get done.

cap. So thanks for pointing that out. Brad Miller won’t be signed at the time so there’s 5.5 mil that isn’t included.Wade gets signed 1st. I assume once the Bulls are close to the cap again they can use mid-level exceptions, but if not then forget resigning Miller. So that gets things close. So Hinrich or Deng may still be need to be moved in a deal that opens up a few more million dollars. But, that’s doable. And the same moves would have to be made to sign Bosh or Stoudemire.

Deng’s on the team because he’s a young solid player and under contract for years. Deng has been just as good before as Salmons has been right now. And I would bet on the guy in his early 20s over the guys in his early 30s. And Deng isn’t an outside shooter. He takes 35% of his shots in the paint, which makes him less of an outside shooter than the majority of SFs.

Gordon and Salmons starting at SG and SF is simply a not good idea long term. It’s terrible defensively and very limiting offensively. Those two together don’t provide much upside for the team

Salmons pretty much couldn’t possibly be taking less shots to get his points. He has a 62.9 TS% and a 10.0 TO%. He’s a black hole, but he’s been an incredibly efficient black hole so far. But, that doesn’t make him a great player either because he’s not bringing much else to the table.

Gordon isn’t playing signficantly better than he did two years ago, and Rose’s ROY season isn’t that great. They’ve played well enough together that I can see Wade and Rose working out, but they haven’t played well enough together to justify taking the defensive hit that is Rose/Gordon for 5/6 years in addition to what it would cost to clear the space to sign Gordon. Deng and Hinrich can be moved later on for decent guys with smaller contracts. Rose, Tyrus, and Noah are the important players on this team right now.

1) Basically keep the team as is and hope .

2) Sign some other big free agent.

First, if Salmons plays next just a notch below what he has this year, I believe there’s little-to-no chance he doesn’t opt out. $16/$17 million > $5.8 million every time I’ve checked (3 year MLE at minimum). His agent will be pushing to go for it, there will be teams (at least a few) that have money left over having missed out on the big free agents and/or there will be teams that got the free agent they wanted, are now up against the cap but still need to add more talent to make a better team. After all, James Posey got a full five years starting at age 31 (or “an almost 32”) based off of a reputation. New Orleans was close last year, thought they needed a championship-defender, had the MLE and spent. I think we all realize that even if it’s not something “we” would do (as you ask), if an owner is close and has the money/space to spend, he will.

Second, I don’t at all get your Wade counterpoints. You say that the Bulls can’t really afford Wade because the Heat can offer so much more money, but then you say they need cap space heading into 2010 w/o saying why. I assume this is to… sign other free agents? Wouldn’t their own teams be able to sign them for more than the Bulls would, exactly like with Wade? And if these players switch teams, what makes the Bulls competitive in the market?

I guess to answer that, you’d actually have to offer an alternative. Is what you’re suggesting: A) trade everyone save Rose, Noah and one of Gordon or Thomas and, I guess, the next three Thabo Sefolosha-level draft picks B) get under the salary far enough to (and I’m totally guessing) sign two big-time free agents. If that’s what you’re suggesting, isn’t that twice as “pie in the sky”? You’d be asking two premier players to take paycuts just to help Chicago. Why Chicago over New York or New Jersey?

Third, you claim Rose/Hinrich/Salmons/Deng/Thomas/Noah is only a 40ish win team? They’re virtually a 40-win team now—getting 3 wins amongst Indiana, Charlotte, Philly, New York, New Jersey, Detroit and Toronto gives them 39 wins which I would qualify as “40ish”. So if they’re at that level now, and the difference is losing Ben Gordon, Brad Miller (who was only a “moderate upgrade”) and Tim Thomas, that says you’re not expecting much development at all from Rose, Thomas or Noah. I know you don’t expect Thomas to get any better, but not Rose or Noah either? If you don’t expect them to get any better, how is having a core of Rose, Thomas and Noah going to attract anyone to Chicago?

So, maybe being the party of No is all good, but if you have an actual alternative plan than just FIRE SALE!!! maybe you’d like to give it, and maybe you’d like to actually explain how your plan would actually work. Otherwise, your just tearing down someone else’s plan w/o offering any ideas of your own.

Seems to me like he wants and likes stability. Playing one more year w/ an uncertain future (being as he’s 10 years older than this young team) is a lot less stable than opting out and getting one last, longer contract. What are the off-court reasons you found that suggest he might stay?

…and I’m sure you know that. But I guess it helps make your point better to suggest that Scotter wants to sign Thomas for $60 million (!!!!!!!) after this season than mention that he wants to sign Thomas for $40-$50 million over five years, and that if negotiations don’t look good to look to trade him. Mentioning 6 years (!!!) and $60 million (!!!!) over $8-$10 million or a possible trade sure makes it look like the plan is much more centered around a Thomas and thus more dubious.

Have you ever looked at a comparison of Bosh and Garnett through this point in their respective careers?

They aren’t just similar statistically, they’re absurdly similar.

That doesn’t mean I think Bosh is quite equal to Garnett, but I was shocked by just how close they were by the numbers.

The difficulty of clearing space and getting Wade or frankly anyone to sign is something I’ve pointed out numerous times on here. I feel optimistic right now about it for some reason. It only becomes a possibility if Thoma signs this summer anyway, which is another long shot. I have enough faith in Tyrus to give him 50 million. If Tyrus won’t sign this summer, and there’s at least a 85% chance he won’t then he’s gone and pretty much has to be traded, and I hope it’s for Bosh.

I can see why Toronto would want him, being an internationally minded team in need of a SF, but I’m also not sure any team would want to make him a centerpiece a trading away a guy like Bosh given his current injury situation. I could see it going both ways I guess.

I’d be willing to trade him, and then try and use the MLE to fill in that spot with a defensive minded player down the road (Josh Childress?, Ronnie Brewer?).

I can’t see them really wanting Kirk since they’ve got Calderon.

If I were to speculate, I’d guess Tyrus, Noah, Gordon (they’ll have some cap space if they let Marion walk) and potentially Deng (based on their view of his injury situation) would all have some value for them. As with most of these situations, it seems like the question is whether Bosh becomes available at all. If he really does, then there are probably quite a few packages of guys I’d be willing to offer.

The big problem I see is that none of those guys would really excite me if I were the Raptors. They’d seem to be put back into rebuilding from the ground up mode no matter who we offer. So I guess they’d probably want to go cheap. Noah, picks, Jerome James’ insured contract? Maybe Salmons as a short-term carrot? I tend to see Noah as a better fit next to Bargnani than I do Tyrus. I have a hard time seeing Tyrus and Bargnani working out.

prevenge….