Quick word on watching the development of Derrick Rose
Didn't catch much of Saturday's romp over New Orleans, but with Rose only shooting 2-9 from the field (no FTAs either) it didn't look like he sustained whatever he showed the night before in Philly.
And even in that game, Rose couldn't convert on a late-game possession, getting his shot blocked by Sam Dalembert. Gordon followed with a rimmed-out 3-pointer, at least ensuring that no matter who got the ball in the final seconds of a close game, a real play would not be run.
But that failed conversion by Rose reminded me how ambivalent I am in assessing game-by-game (let alone by play) performances by him. In my mind, he can do no wrong.
And that's not that he's not doing wrong. It's that his path to stardom is so important, that if he can't get there everything's so screwed it's too depressing to consider. So I choose to believe everything's going great and he can't be screwed up. Luckily he has his better moments like in the 4th quarter against Philly that reinforce the idea of a can't-fail prospect.
If I were more nervous about Rose and his rookie season, it'd be a bit more worrisome that he seems no better than when he began his year, and production-wise he's actually worse.
Instead I'll figure not even an Org. that practices trashing more times than developing, or a coach that can use Tim Thomas to strip Tyrus Thomas of minutes can screw Derrick Rose up. I almost feel I have to believe that, because everything else is so screwed up (if you can't win a road game, you're not inconsistent, you're bad) that it'd be too much to extend it to Rose as well.
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this line really is funny
that if he can’t get there everything’s so screwed it’s too depressing to consider
well done
by mandoman10 on Mar 16, 2009 9:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
At this point
I think Rose has hit the Rookie wall but I don’t think he’s hit it as hard as others in the past.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Mar 16, 2009 9:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
And in addition to the rookie wall teams are game planning for him more now than earlier in the season.
by robinhood on Mar 16, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even though Rose only shot 2-9 I thought he played well as a facilitator.
Players were hitting shots and Rose distributed the ball well. Paul was terrific but was hogging the ball and no one else on NO was into the game. This led to our blowing them out. Rose appeared to me to be consciously changing his role to fit the moment. It appeared to me that even though it isn’t clear in the stat line, Rose was a big factor in our win.
by chgobr on Mar 16, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
paul only started hogging the ball
after no one did anything. he still had 6 assists (the whole team combined only had 10, three of which occurred in garbage time). i don’t blame him for trying to make a run… everyone else just sucked though.
but rose did play well even if it was a poor shooting night for him.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
by Jaina on Mar 16, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's a player that doesn't need to justify his stardom every night.
If his shots not falling and Gordon’s and Salmon’s are, it seems like he’ll happily defer.
by JockstrapNoah on Mar 16, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly!
Add another scoring threat, and all of a sudden the number of double teams go away. Also, I have no doubt that we’ll see a new and improved Rose after a summer of training hard. I don’t worry about him becoming a star or not. He’s already there. I just wonder if he has what it takes to become a top 10 player or better.
by Diz on Mar 16, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no FTAs?
that is the part that is most distracting to me. even with the lack of calls that rookies get, he should be driving the lane enough to average 5-6 FTAs per game. its the threat of that drive is what makes the great PGs great, right?
by bingoD on Mar 16, 2009 10:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It seems to me he is getting clobbered when he drives and is not getting calls.
It is like he is so crafty the refs miss-interpret being hit with his quick moves.
by chgobr on Mar 16, 2009 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think they see the hit.
They just are not calling it. For whatever reason. The clobbering is quite evident from any distance. Maybe Rose needs to flail around more. He is a rookie but he is the best or second best guy on our team. And on a team where none of the players get much respect from the refs. Why there can’t be room for Rose to be our guy who gets the calls he deserves I just don’t know. How does Westbrook get better treatment? It drives me nuts.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on Mar 16, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You hit the nail on the head with the Westbrook comment.
Just what the hell is he doing to get to the line that Derrick isn’t doing?
by robinhood on Mar 16, 2009 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We shall see this week what the differences are
Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 16, 2009 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
VDN and/or Paxson needs to call out the officials for the treatment of Rose,
fines from the league office be damned.
Well, at least it has always worked for PJ (both Bulls and Lakers).
Maybe we can (but probably not)?
by Granny Waiters on Mar 17, 2009 1:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This season can't end soon enough
I’m even thinking no playoff appearance would be ok for Rose, I don’t know if he has the mindset, teammates or coach to make it worthwhile….a summer working and a fresh start next year is probably best.
I know not everyone would agree, but this season needs to end, Vinny needs to end, etc. etc.
by RichKarp on Mar 16, 2009 10:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
etc...the sooner VDN could move upstairs
start looking for a coach, although it probably couldn’t be completed until the playoffs are over, figuring out who to draft, exercising at night, watching new grass grow.
by hlac on Mar 16, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
God
I really hope that by “move upstairs” you mean “never has a job with this Org. ever again”. I don’t care how badly JR plays his favorites and how he loves his “organizational guys”, VDN should not be included in this same discussion.
I would really be disappointed if he were given another job, simply for the fact that I think he needs to be as far away from this team as possible. His presence would serve as a reminder for the players about how brutal this season has been, especially given the amount of talent this team possesses.
Vinny hasn’t earned anything but a pink slip based on his personal performance this season.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Mar 16, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just glad we have Rose
and not Beasley. Can you imagine the trainwreck this season would have been if we had him instead of Rose on this mismanaged team? What a total nightmare that would’ve been. Derrick’s character and determination to play hard night in and night out has been a breath of fresh air amongst this bunch of malcontents.
As far as Derrick’s future goes – he needs structure and a consistent roster with a direction and a gasp! system to flourish as the star he’s certainly going to be. His and Paxson’s careers are going to be forever linked, and it is Pax’s responsibility to make sure Rose is not only focused and driven to make this team better, but also to instill a core group of players and coaches that has one goal: win basketball games. The 1st step to this is getting Derrick and VDN as far away from each other as possible. After that…well if i knew what they should do exactly, I wouldn’t be laying out my ideas here for all to read.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Mar 16, 2009 10:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Even though I don't like talking about this, because there's no way of accurately measuring
this type of idea, I can’t even fathom the type of pressure this poor guy’s going through. He’s still 20 years old, still pimply, and thrusted into the Chicago media. Russell Westbrook and OJ Mayo must have it a lot easier coming from the critics and the fans — who was honestly thinking that OKC or Memphis were going to the playoffs?
Rose has to go through being the starting point guard over Hinrich, and supposed to go to the playoffs like that. That scares me just thinking about it.
by NittanyCub on Mar 16, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see what you're saying but
I think Rose is the type of guy that puts more pressure on himself than what’s already put on him from everyone else. One thing he’s always had around him is a group of people to buffer him from the media.
His only focus has been on basketball, which can be good or bad depending on what you think about the guys he’s been playing with this year. He’s got more to learn than Mayo (not so much Westbrook) as far as the pro game goes, and there have been the injuries, trades and the lack of coaching that is VDN – so ya – not exactly your ideal rookie year.
Regardless of all that, Derrick has come to work everyday and IMO, has improved this year simply for the fact that he’s learning how easy the game comes to him when he attacks and doesn’t try to back off. Now if only we can get someone in here to teach him how to defend better, which he should have no trouble doing given his physical skill set.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Mar 16, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's really no need to trash every other teammate to prop up Derrick, you know.
Who are these malcontents you speak of?
Ben, who has incredibly professional in spite of the offseason stuff, who is has been the most consistent guy on the team this season?
Kirk, who came back from injury/surgery a month early, who has by all reports gone out of his way to help Derrick even though the kid is taking his job, who has gone to the bench and seen reduced minutes/useage without apparent complaint, and who is meanwhile having a career shooting year?
Joakim, who is playing his best ball of the season, who hired a personal trainer to improve?
Aaron, who has seen his minutes cut to virtually zero, but who still is the first guy up and cheering his teammates from the bench?
Brad or John, who haven’t even been here a month, who have taken the role available on this team and played well in it?
Tim Thomas, the original “Tim Thomas,” who put aside any feelings he might have had about the org when traded back here and who is decidedly not a “Tim Thomas” candidate this time around?
Tyrus, who, bless his heart, has the most reason of anyone to sulk about the recent trade, but who continues to play aggressively (if not always wisely) even when out with the scrubs in garbage time?
Derrick’s teammates might not prove to be the best fit going forward, or salary cap issues may necessitate certain guys leave. We may not like how Vinny chooses to use or not use certain players. The adjustments this season have undoubtedly been rough. The team can be frustrating with its Jekyll and Hyde home-road thing.
But I don’t see a bunch of malcontents at all. It’s like Picco’s post the other day about being a Bulls fan – is there too much talent or not enough talent? I get that Derrick gets a pass – he’s a rookie, he’s got huge potential, he’s been designated the future of the franchise. But I think it’s time we quit slamming the rest of the team as one big, collective, unworthy unit.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
by wjb1492 on Mar 16, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
can we still hate the coach?
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 16, 2009 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can hate the coach
You can hate any individual player. You can even temporarily strongly dislike a formerly liked player (notice I didn’t stick Lu on my list….).
I get tired of players being lumped together, particularly when it’s used to just trash everyone. If someone’s being a malcontent/cancer or playing poorly, by all means state that. Too often, though, it’s done in a group where every player in that group gets all negative qualities assigned to them.
(For example, not that long ago there was an article I can no longer find that talked about the “young frontcourt” being lazy, unfocused, out of shape, and having a low IQ – well, I can see the argument for applying each of those to one or the other, even if I don’t necessarily agree, but I certainly don’t think that general description can be fairly applied to either Tyrus or Joakim individually – yet that is the implication.)
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
by wjb1492 on Mar 16, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually like all the players
probably too much. Which is why I’m so bent up about having the second straight season where their completely absolved due to lack of a real coach.
(except Hinrich)
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 16, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems someone or something got to Noah, since he has gone from having
all the negatives quoted at the start of the season to a player who has earned being the starting center.
(For example, not that long ago there was an article I can no longer find that talked about the "young frontcourt" being lazy, unfocused, out of shape, and having a low IQ – well, I can see the argument for applying each of those to one or the other, even if I don’t necessarily agree, but I certainly don’t think that general description can be fairly applied to either Tyrus or Joakim individually – yet that is the implication.)
Maybe we can (but probably not)?
by Granny Waiters on Mar 17, 2009 1:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he got pissed off at losing.
Noah seems to me to be the kind of guy who just can’t stand losing, or sucking because of things he does. But he needs to experience the consequences before enacting things to fix them.
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
by Prevenge on Mar 17, 2009 3:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could go
player by player (except for the new guys) and give 1 simple reason as to why they have been a distraction/hinderance to his development, but that 1 reason won’t overshadow your 1 reason as to why they aren’t a hinderance so it’s really fruitless.
My point is, these guys talk a lot about how the NBA is a “business” and yet their actions show how the “business” of the Chicago Bulls is more like an 8th grade traveling team.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Mar 16, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But you didn't say they're a hindrance, you called them all malcontents.
And you further defined your meaning of malcontent by discussing Derrick’s character as a breath of fresh air. I think that’s a pretty harsh and unfair description of this team as a whole.
I get frustrated with them, too, and wonder why the heck they can’t win on the road. There have certainly been some whole-scale fail to show up efforts (Washington, Orlando, etc.), but there have also been a whole lot more very close losses. The margin of victory for the latter part of the season has been a positive, and they’re playing really well at home. Chemistry? Coaching? Inexperience? I don’t know exactly what the issue is any more than anyone else. But I do think that a team full of malcontents would have a whole lot more of the fail-to-show-up games .
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
by wjb1492 on Mar 16, 2009 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only real malcontent got shipped off to the Knicks.
Who are these malcontents you speak of?
Maybe we can (but probably not)?
by Granny Waiters on Mar 17, 2009 1:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
More on Rose from - John Hollinger:
This season has been an amazing one, arguably the best rookie class of all time in terms of the number of quality players it has produced. Fourteen rookies have a PER above the league average, and by my count, 28 have established themselves as NBA rotation players, and another five or six seem likely to break into a rotation next season.
Several of them, in fact, have surpassed Mayo and Rose in a number of categories. Which gives rise to the interesting question: Are we going to vote Rose and Mayo solely because they’ve played more minutes than the other rookies? Because right now, that’s about the only reason left to vote for either.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Mar 16, 2009 11:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
that article is a joke though.
first he talks about how a center (gasol) is more efficient than a guard (mayo). no shit, i’d hope a center would score more efficiently.
then he talks about how lopez’s rebound and block rate are so much higher than rose’s, which again, if you’re 7 feet and next to the basket most of the game, those two things are probably going to be higher.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
by Jaina on Mar 16, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but he also mentions that Gasol as a better assist ratio compaired to Mayo
Rose vs Lopez he compairs steals and assist as well.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Mar 16, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but most of his argument is apples and oranges.
he also does the FG% comparison between lopez and rose, and also doesn’t take into account that PG is the hardest NBA position to learn and rose is the focal point of the opposing team’s defense a good portion of the time, whereas lopez is the 3rd option on his team at best.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
by Jaina on Mar 16, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you skimmed through the article
And for Lopez being a third option he’s scoring almost as much as Rose.
Don’t get wrong I still think Rose is the Rookie of the year. I look at it from the stand point of how the MVP is picked: Playoff team, Most valuable player on the team
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
by J Theory on Mar 16, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
scoring isn't the point, it's being the focal point of the defense.
since lopez has harris and carter, he’s not going to get doubled, he’ll in fact be the beneficiary of those players being doubled. rose is the guy who has to get out of sticky situations.
i read it as closely as i needed to. hollinger relies too much on his own stat.
ROY shouldn’t have that much to do with the playoffs. very few cusp teams like the bulls end up with the #1 pick. see the bulls last time they had it.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
by Jaina on Mar 16, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except his calculated assist rate for Rose is drastically lower than what it is on other sites
So, I don’t know how much to believe it.
Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 16, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
according to the various sources
basketball-reference.com uses:
Assist Percentage (available since the 1964-65 season in the NBA); the formula is 100 * AST / (((MP / (Tm MP / 5)) * Tm FG) – FG). Assist percentage is an estimate of the percentage of teammate field goals a player assisted while he was on on the floor.
whereas hollinger uses:
Assist Ratio is the percentage of a player’s possessions that ends in an assist. Assist Ratio = (Assists x 100) divided by [(FGA + (FTA x 0.44) + Assists + Turnovers]
so they’re basically two completely different stats.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
by Jaina on Mar 16, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hollinger's tries to be
the % of a player’s possessions that end in assist. So roughly how often a player passes.
B-R’s rate is the % of teammates’ FGM assisted on. So how often a player shoots has no impact on this assist rate. This stat basically measures the size of a player’s passing role. So in the case of Chris Paul, half the shots his teammates make are assisted on by Paul.
by Scotter on Mar 16, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not too worried about Rose right now
Here’s the list of 20-years-old-or-younger rookie point guards since 1990. It includes some of the top PGs in the league recently – Chris Paul, Tony Parker, Mike Bibby, Gilbert Arenas, Rajon Rondo, TJ Ford.
And they all struggled in their rookie season. Rose’s .462 FG% tops the list, his shitty .505 TS% is 4th best, his 22.8% usage rate is 3rd best. I agree his free throw rate and defense is a concern, but PG is a tough position to learn, he’s figuring it out.
by YaoPau on Mar 16, 2009 12:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Let's not forget only 2 years ago
He was a man amongst boys at Simeon, and was probably the best player on the court 99% of the time.
Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 16, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not worried either
But I think this is a better list. I went back a few more years to purposely start at ‘87-’88 since I knew Mark Jackson (a point guard) was the rookie of the year that year. I’ve also used and sorted by PER instead of USG%. This list is not necessarily a point guard list, but I used height (<6’4) to get close enough. Dwayne Wade and Eric Gordon are the only ones on this list who probably didn’t enter the league as point guards. Tony Parker and Mike Bibby had a below average (<15) PER in their rookie year, so they’re excluded.
I’m not worried about DRose’s TS% b/c he’s not and may never be a 3pt shooter (and to his credit, he doesn’t take many). His FT% could use a boost and I think he will. His FG% (and FT attempts) will improve once he starts getting calls that we know he aint getting now. His assist number could use improvement, but I see that happening with a better coach. To his credit his turnovers rank near the top of this list, so at least he’s not losing the ball.
Interestingly, a guy near the top of the PER list that I really liked (but wasn’t well like among the pundits) is Rod Strickland. I guess I always had a soft spot for him going back to his Depaul days. I mention “Rod” b/c I understand he was one of the reasons DRose chose to attend Memphis. While DRose is certainly quicker and more athletic, I recall strengths in Rod that I hope DRose adopts. First, Rod was always able to use his size to basically back down (or run over) opposing point guards and end up at the basket. We’ve seen DRose in the post lately, but I don’t think DRose realizes that he doesn’t necessarily need to use speed/quickness to take advantage of a defender. He can use his size to force his way to spots he wants. Second, to me, Rod was the best finisher against “bigs” among point guards on this list. I don’t know how, but he always seemed to be able to convert at the basket with other bigs in the area. We know DRose is getting fouled a lot, but if he’s able to find a way to convert at a higher clip in the paint, its over for the league.
by PeteRoc on Mar 17, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
stacey got a tan while down here in miami
by BULLieving in Miami on Mar 16, 2009 1:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
OT = new post.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 16, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
whuh?????
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on Mar 16, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh wait...
OT means off topic??
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on Mar 16, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Derrick has become a prisoner of November success
He came out the gate almost unstoppable. About 19 ppg and almost 6 apg. Rookie PGs don’t come into the league on that level, no matter how great they are, and especially if they just turned 20 and only played one college season. He simply came back to earth. He also became the focal point of oppsing defenses without the luxury of two scoring talents like Harris and Vince or Durant and Green. But his apg have risen since the start of the year, rebounds have gone up and he’s gotten better at facillitating an offense even with new teammates in the midseason and an inept coach who calls nothing but plays that take him off the ball for most of possessions. I’d say he’s exceeded expectations.
My greatest enemy is my inner me
by TheCool1 on Mar 16, 2009 1:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i'm not disappointed by D-Rose whatsoever
people were saying he couldn’t shoot. he’s come in and shown he has a good midrange game. people questioned his durability because of the tendonitis at 19. he’s played every game.
the only frustrating part for me is not getting to the line. i’m not sure if its him not creating contact or not getting calls. i think its a bit of both. he’s so athletic that he tries to score clean, and there are times when i feel he gets fouled but no call. that, and i don’t think he’s given free reign yet. friends tell me he should be let loose some more, and they’re all Heat fans. i agree, though. i think he showed that against Philly. give him some freedom and allow him to be aggressive, and he is stellar.
the improvements i feel he needs to make are on D and just being a little more crafty/creative in scoring when going to the basket. how many times now have we seen him get blocked in the paint in late game situations? earlier against CHA (Okafor blocking him), and more, which i can’t recall what specific games right now. he needs to come up with different ways to score going to the rim other than going straight up for a lay-up. what happened to that floater he showcased against Shaq i believe. he put that shot up 4 or 5 times in that game.
he’s doing just fine. give this kid a year or two, he’ll be ready to go.
we went out for pizza after the game. -dave wannstedt
by BULLieving in Miami on Mar 16, 2009 1:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I agree with most of this (and probably other posts but this is the last one I read)
I think it’d be unfair if people implied that Rose has been underachieving or that we should likely worry. And I would say no one expected him to be this good so fast but to me I did expect around 15 pts and 5 assists. I think it was just Paxson and them trying to make sure to take some pressure off D.
I dunno though we seem to run the same play every time that fails at the end of games. Rose is getting some great looks though I don’t know if many guys get looks like that on a regularity. But I have dropped my head plenty of times where hes missed ’em.
But Rose is going to be much different to me I don’t think about him scoring 10 or even more than 5 assists. I think some will come in the flow but one thing that seems different to me about him is that he isn’t a hands on facilitator in a way. And I think that could be great and likely necessary with some of the versatile players on this team. Once he gets the reigns he’ll turn it up I’m sure but if he has a 7pt 9ast 5 reb game that’d likely be the game he was hoping to have.
by Camry on Mar 16, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"coach that can use Tim Thomas to strip Tyrus Thomas of minutes "
just doesn’t make any sense… I worry about any and every player with potential on the Bulls roster, I’ve seem far too much aborted potential destroyed by this Paxson led organization over the last 6+ years.
If I’m Rose, I’d want out.. or everything related to Paxson and VDN out..
Clean house..
man up!
by exult463 on Mar 16, 2009 2:41 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
The mistakes he makes, they are so mundane and people treat it like he's the only one who commits them
People constantly question his heart or desire, yet conveniently leave out that he carried the team for November and December….no one seems to acknowledge this could have been too much of a burden for the rookie? And even after those 2 fantastic months, I can list at least 10 games where he took over a game and either led them to victory or put them in great position to win the game. He is the number 1 pick so will get the associated criticism, but people here read way too much into body language. No one questioned his heart when he looked like a stoned teenager in November.
Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 16, 2009 2:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Excellent point
17 in the 4th @ Toronto, multiple big shots @ GS, big shots to put the team up @ Utah, 16 in the 4th vs. my Rockets, 13 in the fourth vs Det, shouldve had the game winner @ Dallas, GW layup vs NY, 12 if I’m not mistaken at home vs Orlando
My greatest enemy is my inner me
by TheCool1 on Mar 16, 2009 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Good post
I think more than every, we need a coach like Avery to keep Rose focused and to change the tone
..on 2/18/09, Noc was gone..and on the next day, Larry "The Chucker" was just a bad dream...
by Belize on Mar 16, 2009 3:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
ever*
..on 2/18/09, Noc was gone..and on the next day, Larry "The Chucker" was just a bad dream...
by Belize on Mar 16, 2009 3:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
u think that if we somehow dont make it into the playoffs
that will hurt rose’s chance at ROY?
cause seriously since the houston game, theres only been some plays here and there when it comes to rose, right?
The only monster here is the gambling monster that has enslaved your mother! I call him Gamblor, and it's time to snatch your mother from his neon claws!!
by Yibs on Mar 16, 2009 4:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If they don't make the playoffs Westbrook wins the award, he's just been more impressive the past few months
Unless there’s some bizarre scenario where Rose plays extremely well, but the Bulls still fall short.
Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 16, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea thats what i was thinking
honestly i just want him to stop passing it up so much. its fine if he starts the game off that way. but in the past couple of games i see him drving the lane and then passing it off to thomas or noah once hes in the air. probably because he expects not to have any calls go his way, but i just want to see him a little aggressive.
The only monster here is the gambling monster that has enslaved your mother! I call him Gamblor, and it's time to snatch your mother from his neon claws!!
by Yibs on Mar 16, 2009 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
one of the things that I've noticed looking at the stats of young PGs (19 or 20 year olds)
in their rookie seasons, relative to the rest of their careers, is that those that start out getting to the line generally continue to get to the line at about the same rate per 36 minutes. Whereas, those that start out low eventually will get better and better at getting to the line and peak near to the FTA per 36 levels of their fellow PGs, but maybe not at quite that high a level. The most perplexing thing with Rose has been that as a college freshman he got to the line quite well. Pace adjusted per 36 minutes, he got 6.07 FTAs. Now in the NBA his pace-adjusted per 36 minutes FTA are just 2.88. It just doesn’t make sense how a guy who got to the line so well in college, can’t seem to get there in the pros. Incredibly, Russell Westbrook (the NBA free throw machine) last year at UCLA only got to the line for 4.23 FTA per pace adjusted 36, but this year he is getting to the line for a ridiculous 6.4 FTA per pace adjusted 36. It seems that maybe Westbrook just got “it” sooner than Rose in terms of getting calls, but it’s just crazy to me how little respect it seems Rose is getting from the refs. I’ve seen him get clobbered more times than I can count without getting a call. I don’t know maybe it’s just a Bulls players get no respect thing because the same thing has been happening to Ben Gordon for years and even though he gets to the line at a decent clip, he also gets hacked and hammered going to the rim a LOT with no call.
The free throw thing has been my main problem with Rose, but even in spite of all that he’s been tremendous. Looking at the progress of other PGs historically on the FTA front, my doubts are decreased. So, my I guess my only gripe is that his defense is so poor, and that I blame squarely on the coaching staff. Defense is mostly about effort, teamwork, and the scheme. Derrick’s effort has been there some nights and not there other nights, but the Bulls have no scheme, which is the coaches’ fault. The teamwork is lacking because they don’t talk on defense, which is the coaches’ fault. VDN, Del, and Bernie, you have to implore guys to chat it up on defense. This is the primary reason I wanted Tom Thibodeau to be hired last summer and it’s the reason I’d like to see him hired after the Bulls fire Vinny this summer.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Mar 16, 2009 5:42 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I really have little to no concern about Rose as an offensive threat.
As all things, his shot has tailed, and the FTA are somewhat worrying, but having his shot improve, combined with players that can make shots, combined with a real system, I have little to no reason to believe he won’t be a true offensive superstar. At the very least, I think the Bulls will have someone that contributes similar to Steve Nash. (in a different style, of course)
Now, about that defense… I am worried about that.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Mar 16, 2009 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the defense is something that proper scheming can make up for too. Ray Allen was a pretty poor
defender for most of his career, and he went to Boston and has been a part of one of the best defenses in the entire league two years running. There are plenty of other examples of guys that weren’t that great as individual defenders who in a proper team scheme ended up being just fine. I don’t know that Derrick will ever be a dominant defender, because he doesn’t seem to have the instincts for it like he does for offense, but if he becomes passable to even slightly above average, he will be a very dominant player.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Mar 16, 2009 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. But I wouldn't want to rely on having one of the best defensive schemes...
…for him to become “passable”.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Mar 16, 2009 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. Really, though, why didn't the Bulls interview Tom Thibodeau???
It makes my head hurt.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Mar 16, 2009 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope to god they do it this year.
This team is just as enticing as last year except with a true-superstar potential player. (I hesitate to say “more so” simply because Thomas is a year older, Deng is a year hurt-er.) They should be able to pick their coach yet again.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Mar 17, 2009 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe some people are better suited to a staff position
and perhaps this is the reputation he has. Just wondering.
by hlac on Mar 17, 2009 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Instead I'll figure not even an Org. that practices trashing more times than developing, or a coach that can use Tim Thomas to strip Tyrus Thomas of minutes can screw Derrick Rose up."
Get your head out of your a*s*s! On most nights the Bulls play 7 players and are very lucky if they play 8 (most teams play between 8-10 players a game). No player in the NBA can continually play 40+ mins in every game for a six month span without undergoing some sort of stress related injury (i.e. small tear, sprain, or a stress fracture). What are you looking for? Do you want the Bulls to only play the starting 5 plus Miller while Deng is out? You act as if the season is over and it’s time to focus more on developing the youngsters…..while that’s not the case the Bulls have a good shot at extending their season a few games….do you ever have any worth a damn to say about the Bulls?
by chitownsports on Mar 26, 2009 8:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It seems to be working.
Just sayin’.
Joakim Noah: Better than you.
by Prevenge on Mar 27, 2009 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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