Bulls Definitely Want To Re-Sign Gordon
Talk across the Bulls organization is that they definitely want to re-sign Gordon this summer and have been happy with his performance. But no one is sure whether it will happen, because the Bulls would almost certainly have to pay the NBA's luxury tax next season in order to keep him.
"People like to pick out Ben Gordon's flaws all the time, but the great majority of games I've coached against Ben, he has been tremendous," said a longtime NBA assistant coach. "I would agree that Ben is more valuable to the Bulls than most other teams."
Considering the apparent lack of competition, the Bulls should stand a good chance of re-signing Gordon with an offer similar to what he turned down last summer, roughly $54 million over six years.
So that could leave just $4 million-$5 million to spend on Gordon's first-year salary before the Bulls hit the luxury tax.
Of course, the reason the Bulls are so close to the tax threshold is because they spent $60 million to sign free agent Ben Wallace in 2006, a move that didn't pan out. Last year's decision to re-sign forward Luol Deng for $71 million doesn't look good in hindsight, either, since Deng has slumped and struggled with injuries for the second consecutive season.
An argument could be made that the Bulls shouldn't compound two mistakes by making a third and letting Gordon walk away for nothing. One piece of good news is the Bulls would have to pay the luxury tax for only one year, since they'll have $25 million in expiring contracts next year between Brad Miller, Tim Thomas and Jerome James.
Most every league observer felt Gordon and his agent, Raymond Brothers, should have agreed to terms last year. Gordon actually tried to accept the Bulls' offer last September after the team-imposed deadline had passed. The Bulls chose not to put it back on the table.
about 3 years ago
Andrew7
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Sounds like they will try to re-sign Gordon and then dump Deng/Hinrich.
This was a very well done article by Mike McGraw.
I agree with him that we should start where we left off in negotiations with Ben Gordon next year. As I showed on my blog, Miami, because of their lack of an income tax, can make a competitive offer to the Bulls if it’s just $48 million. A $9 million a year offer puts quite a bit more space between Chicago/Miami. A $10 million a year offer I think would seal the deal, and $10 million really isn’t that bad for him.
Good job by McGraw to point out that it would only be the tax for one year. If we were trade for Amare/Bosh, that should be argued as paying the tax to become a contender, so beyond next year, the tax wouldn’t be an issue, because we’d be competing.
Not letting Gordon sign that deal was a dumbass move by the Bulls. You can’t blame John Paxson for that, because you know that he would have loved to have Ben locked up. That goes on Reinsdorf. Horrible decision.
I don’t think Ben really got bad advice, since he accepted the offer. He was just playing hard ball with the Bulls. It’s just unfortunate that the Bulls were playing dumbass ball with Gordon.
It’d be a real shame to just lose Ben for nothing. He has been the best player to put on a Bulls uniform since Michael Jordan retired. (Not counting Scottie Pippen, who was toast when he came back here). It’d be a shame to let him go. He’s going to finish somewhere in the top 3 along with Reggie Miller and Ray Allen for career three pointers and will most likely be a 20,000+ point scorer in his career. It would be nice to see him do all this in a Bulls uniform, and not somewhere like Miami creaming us.
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by Andrew7 on Mar 15, 2009 3:01 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Signing BG to a 6 year deal will lock him up for his prime. Depending on his play the final year,
he would make a nice expiring contract at age 32, or a player who could still contribute as a 3-pt. specialist at a mid-level reserve salary on a new contract.
Maybe we can (but probably not)?
by Granny Waiters on Mar 15, 2009 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Good post
I totally agree. And to top it off, I think Gordon plays with Rose as well as any player on the team. With Gordon, Rose and Noah, that is a good core to build around.
I think Lu Deng or Hinrich are gone in the summer. I think the better move would be dumping Deng, but I don’t know if his contract is moveable. Hinrich seems to have settled into his role as third guard. With Salmons you have a quality small forward and Tim Thomas can back him up. The Bulls also could grab a small forward with their first pick.
by Basketball Smurf on Mar 15, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Who do you think will take Deng's contract?
For a while I thought the Bulls would be able to easily find somewhere for him to go, but with the economy, his poor play and the fact that he’s not exactly the type of player that puts butts in seats, I can’t think of a real possibility. I was thinking Portland, but just watching a few Blazers games and looking around, I get the feeling that Blazer’s fans and management think Batum is the second coming of Scottie Pippen… seriously.
They were the one team with the money and stones to make that kind of move. Some people say Toronto, with Deng being a piece in a potential Bosh deal, but I just don’t see it. The same people that are saying: “let’s trade Deng”, are also saying: “Nobody has the money to sign Gordon”. I think the two are kind of related. It’s foolish to think that nobody will pay Ben, yet people are gonna be clamoring for Luol. But, no matter what happens with Deng I really do hope they work something out with Ben. A franchise like the Bulls, in a big market like Chicago should NEVER let the luxury tax stand in the way of making a smart decision for the team.
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Mar 16, 2009 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe have Jay Williams give Luol Deng as a motorcycle as a gift.
Remember, he doesn’t have to crash it into a tree for his contract to be voided. He just has to ride it.
If the Bulls deny Deng from playing for Great Britain this summer, and he plays anyhow, they could void his contract.
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Works for me:)
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Mar 16, 2009 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions
i think the two teams you mentioned, portland and toronto,
are the best possibilities. All the reports I’ve read state that Pritchard loves Deng. He is a good fit and they wouldn’t even have to give up Batum or Fernandez at this point – just Outlaw and Blake.
Toronto has trouble signing guys long term. Deng fits in with their international flavor and would be a good compliment to Bargani and Calderon. Heck, if they don’t want to give up Bosh, they still have a potential top 10 pick. Would you take a top pick and expiring contracts for Deng? If Toronto refuses to trade Bosh but can’t sign him to an extension, they won’t keep him with another high draft pick.
One other possibility I can think of is Utah. They can’t afford to keep Boozer, Kirilenko and Milsap and they have a hole at the small forward. I think Utah is a team that could actually want Deng. Williams-Brewer-Deng-Boozer (or Milsap)-Okur with Kirilenko and Korver off the bench is a pretty good team. Although I have no idea what a Bulls-Utah deal would look like.
I think the places you can send Deng are limited. That is why Hinrich should get to know a good realtor.
by Basketball Smurf on Mar 16, 2009 2:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Utah is reportedly the team that set Deng's contract amount.
By trying to sign and trade for him.
Not that we did the same for Gordon and let Miami set his contract amount in their sign and trade offer….
The dumbassery of those negotiations is unfathomable.
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Maybe
We can trade Deng to Utah and pick up a little AK47 in the process….give them a few 2nd round picks to make the contract terms work….
Me likes.
Where did you find the Utah set the bar thing?
In Dallas?
Hinrich for Stackhouse and bit players (either way) would allow space to re-sign Gordon.
I think the places you can send Deng are limited. That is why Hinrich should get to know a good realtor.
Maybe we can (but probably not)?
by Granny Waiters on Mar 17, 2009 7:28 AM CDT up reply actions
MJ was actually in Portland last week and had a meeting with Larry Miller (Blazer team president and former Jordan Brand guy)
He said Batum reminded him of Pippen. No you don’t get a link, I’m too lazy.
Karma
by Sabonis4Ever on Mar 16, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Thabo Sefolosha is already Pippen
Do Pippen jerseys sell well in Europe or something?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 16, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
He's playing in Lithuania, or something
Confusion breeds success. If they don't know each other, opponents can't have strategy. GENIUS.
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 16, 2009 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, well if MJ said it, it must be true
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
by Juiceboxjerry on Mar 16, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions
we know the man is an excellent judge of talent, after all.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
"Oh, well if MJ said it, it must be true"
Yes….it is true….Batum does remind MJ of Pippen….
Karma
by Sabonis4Ever on Mar 19, 2009 3:48 AM CDT up reply actions
My dream resign Gordon
Unload Deng.
Maybe the Mavericks could take him. I don’t know why I said that I guess because I just watched them play the Lakers.
Pool and a pond... Pond be good for you.
deng and hinrich contracts
Does anyone know if either of them have some sort of trade kicker or other strange mechanism that would make it harder to trade them? Isn’t it also goign to be ahrd to trade deng unles he plays some more games before the season ends?
I hope they finally realize
that in the very least Gordon is a consistent guy who doesn’t get injured, has kept his averages up for a number of years, avoids trouble, has a good work ethic, is ok starting or off the bench (but there is no reason not to start him), and was able to fit into good team defense back when we had a coach that promoted it. If you get him you know what you’ll get for the rest of his time with you. And now that the economy tanked the organization probably feels like they have the upper hand. And they love that feeling.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
The problem is that the Bulls don't have too much of an upperhand.
http://dabullz.com/2009/03/10/an-inconvenient-truth-the-bulls-have-to-pay-ben-gordona-lot/
Miami, because of their lack of an income tax, can stay very competitive with the Bulls up to a $48 million offer. Where’s that leaving the Bulls? Offering something like $54 million over 6 years….wait that’s where we left off last year….no upper hand for the Bulls.
Something Bulls management will have to realize before going into this offseason is that some team might get Gordon at a discount, but it won’t be the Bulls.
The Bulls need to come out with an aggressive offer for Gordon. Because you know Miami is going to come at him hard. Pat Riley, Dwyane Wade, and Micky Arison will all fly out to meet with Gordon. You’ll have Dwyane Wade saying, me and you together, we can win it all.
The way I think you have to view Gordon is as a really good player, but not a player you can build around. I think he’s kind of like Ray Allen and Paul Pierce, that he will be fully appreciated once he’s playing with other really good/great players.
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Whatever all I know is the Bulls without BG are in some serious dog pooh!
I would think that Miami would look to get big before throwing lots of cash at Gordon.
Pool and a pond... Pond be good for you.
Let me remind you that Miami agreed to trade for Gordon, but the Bulls rejected...and some quotes from D-Wade
"He’s in a tough situation. Ben is a very good player. He’s taken a lot of knocks from people saying he’s not tall enough or he doesn’t play good defense. But scoring-wise he’s one of the best in the game.
"I think a player like him just has to understand that you have to do what you feel is right. Whatever you feel in your heart, you’ve got to go with it. You can’t do nothing that you don’t want to do, because you’re not going to give it your all. So he wants to make [Chicago] his home, do it. If not, wait it out.
"I don’t think he should go to Europe. I don’t think he’s at the Europe stage. He’s just such a good player. There are a lot of teams in the states that would love to have him. I just think he needs to be patient. But he could hop and go for it, and continue to start a trend that’s happening over there.
"His game is what his game is. Ben will score. He’s a great offensive scorer, a great catch-and-shoot player. That’s not going to change. As long as there’s a basketball and a rim, he’s going to be able to do the same thing.
http://blogs.suntimes.com/bulls/2008/09/dwade_says_gordon_should_pass.html
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aren't the income taxes paid for every state they play in?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 15, 2009 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions
That isn't the case for the NFL... thats why Bush got screwed when he wasn't the number 1
pick and went to new orleans instead of Texas (where there aren’t income taxes).
It may be different in the NBA….
The only thing I could find on this.
Was that the NBA instituted a special rule that helped make Canadian teams more competitive, since the Canada taxes are so high.
I couldn’t find anything on taxes being paid in each state.
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Yes, you are correct, Sir!
From a SacBee article on the jock tax:
Professional athletes are required to pay income taxes in every state and city that levies them where they earned a salary during away games. That means Kings and River Cats players must file tax returns in dozens of states and several cities. In some jurisdictions, that includes practices, as well.
Each state determines taxable service performed, also known a “duty day.” The nonresident income tax, which is dubbed the “jock tax,” surfaced in the 1990s as a way for states to tap into the soaring paychecks of visiting professional athletes, said Ryan Losi, the executive vice president of Piascik & Associates, an accounting and financial services firm in Virginia that works with professional athletes.
Losi said many believe “jock tax” enforcement began when California taxed Michael Jordan when the Chicago Bulls beat the Los Angeles Lakers in the 1991 NBA Finals.
However, there’s still a huge benefit to playing for a Texas or Florida team, because it’s proportional to work done in each state – so, if Ben played in Florida, over half his salary would not be subject to state income taxes (41 home games, plus non-home games in Florida and Texas, as well as a greater proportion of practices and training for the states that really want to screw athletes).
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
So this is the reason athletes don't want to practice on away games?
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
thanks for the find.
as long as it screws over Andrew’s calculations :)
Honestly, the ‘real’ money might not even be as big of a deal as what’s reported (given that they’re comparable). Getting contracts is clearly a competition amongst players.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 16, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions
If I was Ben.
I would look to sign a three year deal, with a player option for a fourth year.
I think he can really blow up next to a guy like Dwyane Wade in Miami, or in D’Antoni’s system in New York, then opt out, and get his big payday when his new team has his bird rights.
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would gordon really go to miami knowing he's going to be the 6th man?
i sort of doubt it, and i dont think you can move wade to the point
Being sixth man behind a GREAT player is better
than behind a sixth man behind a Duhon or a Thabo. And being a sixth man on a team going somewhere is also better than being on a team treading water. Put some perspective to it and you can see it would be a different situation than here at Chicago. And for Miami’s situation the ball is in Wade’s hands so much anyway the offense might not need to be run by a traditional PG type player and he and Gordon could start together. Either way, Gordon can produce on or off the bench well. It just seems silly not to start your best SG here in Chicago. In Miami it would be Wade.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
Why would he be a sixth man?
You just have Gordon/Wade split the point guard duties.
Have Gordon be the guy you get the ball to and try to run something in transition with. If there is nothing going in transition, get the ball to Wade, and have him set up the offense.
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Has the talk about Boozer to Miami slowed?
I remember about a yr ago there were a ton of rumors that Boozer <3 Miami and vice versa. I see that move making the most sense for the Heat.
Heat don't have cap room for this year anymore.
The Heat were just going to have a small window of capspace this year, and that capspace disappeared when it became clear that the cap was going to shrink. Riley wisely loaded up on an expiring contract for next year so he can work out a sign and trade.
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if the Heat don't have cap room this year, how are they going to offer Ben Gordon anything?
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Mar 16, 2009 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
MLE
With a ~48 million over 6 year offer by the Bulls, Gordon will be making less than 500k less if he decides to sign with the HEat.
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I remember!
from your income tax fuzzy math.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 16, 2009 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, and it's STATE income tax, too. And only on half the games (probably).
He’ll still be paying his 39% marginal federal tax rate. or whatever it is.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
heh, right.
I’d point this out there but I don’t want to register.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 16, 2009 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions
your numbers aren't right as has been pointed out ad nauseum here. so um, the Heat
are off the table. find a new place for your guy to get his money. (Note: Ben deserves to get paid, I just don’t know who’s going to do it, honestly).
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Mar 16, 2009 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions
While your numbers are all wrong...
…you continue to harp on the Ben Gordon signing for the MLE…
Why is that? He has turned down two deals for much more than the MLE, now he is going to sign for less to spite the Bulls? Or just to play second fiddle to DWade in Miami? Why would BG sign the MLE? I don’t get it…
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Mar 17, 2009 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not that he will want to sign the MLE.
But if the Bulls try to get Gordon for $7-8 million a year, he will leave, because the money won’t be much more than the MLE, epecially in a place like Miami, where for at least 45 games he won’t be subject to a state income tax.
I think the $54 million offer is good for Gordon. It’s something that he would probably sign up right away (unless Thunder/Detroit offer him more off the bat), it puts a good amount of separation from the MLE, and it’s not a terribly big contract. Less per year than Hinrich’s was! It also would serve well in not making Gordon make decisions based on pride, if the Bulls were to offer less than the last year, like they did last year.
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He likely will sign for the MLE because no one will offer him more than the MLE.
After last night’s game he may not even get the MLE.
Yeah, players are judged by their worst games of the season.
I’m not going to even bother finding some horrible game by Dwight Howard/Michael Redd/etc. to prove you wrong.
Looking at his production over the year, he should be getting ~10 million a season. He’s not going to get less than the MLE, at any rate, though it’s still an open question as to who is going to pay him.
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