Amare Update
by gocubs40 on Feb 9, 2009 9:32 PM CST
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Print[From the Fanposts (added the McGraw link). Can't say I vouch for the sources, but Rumorpress has been correct in the past. It's interesting that the supposed stumbling block for Paxson is the same I'd have: I would not throw in Noah to this deal -ed.]
As we all know, the Bulls and Suns have had lengthy discussions about a possible trade that would send All Star big man Amare Stoudemire to Chicago. The Bulls are very much in the running to land Stoudemire, as GM John Paxson is willing to package just about any deal with mutliple players involved to get him, except for Derrick Rose of course. One scenario that is very possible and has been discussed the most would be a deal that would send Drew Gooden, Tyus Thomas, Thabo Sefoloshia and a 1st round pick to the Suns in exchange for Stoudemire. However, Steve Kerr would like Joakim Noah added to the deal as well. Phoenix will continue to talk with other teams to see if they can either find a better deal, or wait and see if the Bulls will add Noah to the trade. The Bulls want Stoudemire so much, that adding Noah may just happen. Even then, the ball will still be in the Suns court as they have multiple teams to work with and several deals to weigh out, the highest bidder will win.
The chatter on Monday, though, suggested the Suns aren't convinced Beasley would fit into their offensive system and they don't want to take back Marion, even for less than half a season. Marion has a $17 million expiring contract and was sent to Miami for Shaquille O'Neal a year ago.
In the meantime, Suns GM Steve Kerr sees the same thing the Bulls did the past two weeks: The light bulb is starting to go on for Thomas and he may still be a long way from reaching his ceiling. Thomas just completed the best six-game stretch of his pro career, averaging 15.3 points, 9.8 rebounds and 2 blocks.
It appears the Suns are open to a package of Thomas, Thabo Sefolosha, Drew Gooden, Cedric Simmons and undetermined draft picks for Stoudemire. One question now is whether better offers will come at the Suns in the days leading up to the Feb. 19 trade deadline.
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Man...
I’m all about getting Amare, but do I don’t know if I’m willing to give up all of these young guys for him. I mean, if we get rid of both Thomas and Noah, who the hell starts alongside Amare? Noc? Gray? Holy shitty interior defense, batman…
I’m all about the Tyrus + Gooden + Thabo + 1st trade, but adding Noah is too much, me thinks…that is, unless Pax is swinging another trade that brings us someone that can defend/rebound at the 5 position. Which is highly doubtful IMO.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Maybe then we could trade Hinrich for Pryzbilla and Blake
Then we have a legit defensive big man and a solid backup point for D Rose
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 9, 2009 10:35 PM CST up reply actions
I would be fucking ecstatic if that happened
but do you really think they’d give up Pryz? Doubtful.
We would also need a backup SG as well
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
You think they would value Pryzbilla more than a potential starting pg?
Possibly, but if that’s the case, forget ever trying to get a deal done with Portland. I know Pryzbilla’s solid, but he’s still a backup there.
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 9, 2009 10:47 PM CST up reply actions
Where's the Blazers fans?!?!?!
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Huh?
No…Joel (Z before Y) Przybilla is not getting traded. He is the best back up center in the NBA and amazingly important with Oden’s being incontinent. Check back in two years when Greg is at full power and eating up the league.
The Blazers have only two veterans on the team, Blake and Przybilla. Giving them both up for Hinrich is laughable. We are trying to make the playoffs.
Karma
by Sabonis4Ever on Feb 10, 2009 5:45 AM CST up reply actions
Oden's wearing Depends?
with Oden’s being incontinent
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
lol...damn firefox spell checker
that’s funny
Karma
by Sabonis4Ever on Feb 10, 2009 5:28 PM CST up reply actions
I think they would...
we’d have to give up Luol, I think…
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
No
Way would we give up Luol for Przybilla. That would be the most moronic trade ever.
I could see the Blazers making a Hinrich for Przy trade, but that likely would not happen until after the season (then they put the honus on Oden to live up to his draft status).
Rumor is we might trade Hughes for Etan Thomas
and Mike James. Amare and Etan isn’t too shabby. (Although I’d rather have Noah + Amare + Etan.)
Etan is out for the year I believe...
but you know, still better than Hughes…
Trade for Amare. Keep Deng and Rose. Figure out the rest later.
he's been pretty reliable in the past
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
yeah, and it's interesting to scroll down the page
at what might have been.
this is the most exciting rumor yet, though i still feel mixed about it.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
Really?
He said the Bulls were going to contact Othella Harrington, that Larry Hughes to New Jersey was imminent and that we were talking to the Raptors…so far, I would say nothing he has said has been reliable.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
Yea, but to be fair weren't most of the Bulls beat writers talking as if the Hughes trade was already completed
Also, the other things were just mentioning discussions the Bulls were having, he never guaranteed anything would get done.
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 9, 2009 11:01 PM CST up reply actions
I know.
But I don’t see anything reliable on his site…well, he said Ben Gordon was going to sign the QO, but I think I it was reported before he “predicted” it…
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
Wouldn't this deal pretty much cripple us financially?
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
Maybe not cripple...
But certainly inhibit our ability to resign BG and get another big man to replace what we would lose (if Noah is packaged as well I mean).
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 9, 2009 10:08 PM CST up reply actions
I'd do it as long as Noah isn't included.
But maybe Pax (as I said above) has another trade up his sleeve bringing in a big man? Who knows. I just wish something would happen.
This could be another cocktease in the line of Bulls management cockteases. KG, Gasol, Kobe , and now Amare.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Amare for Gooden, Thomas, Simmons, Thabo and a Bulls future #1
would put us into the luxury tax.
We get Amare, but this is remaining frontcourt.
Amare
Noah
Gray
Nocioni
Ruffin
We give away Thabo which means either Hughes will play more or Nocioni will play more 3.
If you add Noah to the deal it gets really ugly. We’ll be a threat to stop nothing in the paint.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 9:21 AM CST up reply actions
Noc could start at the 4
You would have 3 shooters (Deng, Noc, Gordon) with Derrick Rose and Amare doing the pick and roll.
I hope Pax asks for something else in return with Amare. Simmons would get more playing time and I am interested in what he would be able to do with more minutes.
When will we be getting Asik in uniform? Perhaps Asik is the answer, but that may not be until next year. The backcourt could be as it has always been anyway. Rose, Hinrich and Gordon.
Gray and Simmons and unfortunately if he is not traded then Larry Hughes off of the bench at the 3, but we can build from that.
A Noc/Amare frontcourt would be absolutely abysmal on defense
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Feb 9, 2009 10:24 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
We are abysmal on defense now.
Start Gray then… He can foul and take up space. He won’t have to worry about scoring. Gray could rebound and play defense.
Gray is slow and an absolutely terrible defender. Plus he clogs the paint where Amare needs to do work.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
That is why you start Noc
At least he will spread the floor and flop on defense. It works sometimes.
Heh...
I can see that on the billboards and ads for next years team…
“Noc and Amare on D… It works sometimes. Love it live!”
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 9, 2009 11:12 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Exactly...
That’s why he doesn’t want to play next to Shaq I’m sure.
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 9, 2009 11:23 PM CST up reply actions
Ruffin could play the 4 or the 5
Since I saw that he is now practicing. If this is the case then Simmons can play some 3 and 4. If this works then Hughes ass can stay in a suit.
What kind of crack would I have to smoke...
To watch a team with Ruffin and Simmons rotating through the 3 and 4 on a nighty basis?
If I’m Amare I tell Phoenix I won’t go to that team.
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 9, 2009 11:15 PM CST up reply actions
Really?
Can’t they see enough in practice?
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 9, 2009 11:19 PM CST up reply actions
I hope we keep Noah but I think we can do it without him.
That is my point. If we lost Noah and Thomas I don’t think it will be as bad as people think.
+1
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 9, 2009 11:23 PM CST up reply actions
yes it will. we will have no interior defense. we really won't.
what good is Amare scoring 30 when the opposing frontline scores 40? Noah has really been stepping up his man-on-man post defense recently and has the potential to be a lock-down interior defender, if he ever seriously works out in offseasons. Can’t lose that kind of defensive asset without utter necessity.
At least Larry Hughes isn't overrated
we could always trade larry hughes
for ben wallace :)
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Feb 10, 2009 2:06 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You are worried about what the 13th man can do?
If he is lucky, he can make the DLeague next year…seriously, if you are depending on the deep bench for any kind of big minutes, the team is not in a position to contend for anything.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
michael ruffin is an absolute joke of a bball player
at this point in his career. he really doesn’t do much other than run around and grab an errant board here and there. vinny, just give all his potential minutes to simmons. please. no ruffin except in 30-point blowouts.
At least Larry Hughes isn't overrated
We can do the trade even if Noah is included in the deal.
Rose, Deng and Stoudemire is a good core to build a championship team out of.
No way Paxson does any kind of trade that gives away both Noah and Tyrus
He’s better off just not making a move and spinning Amare as a lazy malcontent they don’t want, and saying the recent good play by Tyrus and Noah is reason enough to stand firm. Steve Kerr just wants as much young talent as possible because the Suns can barely pass as a playoff team these days. A deal of Thabo, Tyrus, Gooden, and a 1st round pick is a good deal. Shaq and Nash will be gone soon enough, it’s time they start investing in some draft picks to relaod the roster.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
What about trading Shaq?
Would Paxson be interested in trading Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, and Joakim Noah for Shaq? Possibly throw in Alando Tucker, too.
I mentioned this
in one of the fanposts. (I think it’s a notion that deserves it’s own thread?) My comment was “why not Gooden And Hughes for Shaq”, thinking from the Suns perspective, and from my personal dislike regarding an Amare for Rasheed trade with DET.
But who can guess what the hell Kerr is thinking? I was telling people all summer that they’d be terrible. What they need to do is replace Porter with D’Antoni assistant holdover Gentry, and make Shaq a big body type role player again. Turns out Mike did no a thing or two about coaching! They’ve already re-installed SSOL, and to my mind Shaq could be replaced/traded if they must get out of L-Tax land next year. Shaq really is only most useful vs Duncan anyway. But they’ve only had him a year (technically less than that) and it may be too much admission for Kerr/Sarver.
If I were Kerr I’d do it even without getting Noah, especially if they need to for $ savings. And Pax shouldn’t give up Jo, because Shaq is mostly a salary dump. He has no future or real reason to be here, it’s just that he’s still good if healthy (another big question, since Bulls don’t have the Suns magic medicos). And Reinsdorf would have to sign off on all that money due next year. Money ironically not due Marion.
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
I actually hope that Pax holds his ground and not deal EITHER Noah or Thomas
But I don’t think it shoud get in the way of the trade and I think Stoudemire has been upset with the Suns when the team took another direction. He said in Philly that when they traded Bell and Diaw that he saw that as a sign that Phoenix was losing their committment to winning a championship.
The coaching change affected him also. Chicago may bring him new life, a larger market and added motivation to prove himself.
You seriously think we could get Amare with dealing Tyrus or Noah?
Haha.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
I think this would have to be 1 of 2 trades we make
If we can get Stoudemire (noah or not) we should then get rid of hinrich and/or noc. Even if it’s just a salary dump. If/when BG bolts, Kirk isn’t a long term solution as a 2 guard. Let’s clear cap space to sign somebody else.
by The90sBullsRevival on Feb 9, 2009 10:35 PM CST reply actions
Maybe we can nab Richardson in the deal as well, he could compliment Rose nicely
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 9, 2009 10:37 PM CST up reply actions
i agree completely
i think richardson would be the perfect fit for the 2 guard along with the core of rose, stoudemire, and deng. He gives us a good big shooting guard who can shoot the three and also defend.
If Noah gets included...
They would pretty much have to include Lopez, right? We can’t give up our three best frontcourt players for one…that would leave Gray, Simmons and Ruffin as our only other big men next to Amare…
I understand why Paxson would include one of Noah/Thomas…including both makes it a pretty bad deal for the Bulls…
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 9, 2009 11:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
noah, tyrus, and gooden?
we’d really cripple our frontcourt. we have BACKCOURT issues people!! and thabo barely counts in that factor! i really hope it doesn’t go through if it costs us all those guys.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
Every one of the guys mentioned above are practically the definition of replaceable.
Minus perhaps Tyrus. It’s a classic case of fans overvaluing their own players
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 9, 2009 10:50 PM CST up reply actions
I agree
I would part with anybody who has been mentioned in a trade but Tyrus
Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Feb 9, 2009 10:59 PM CST up reply actions
Individually.
They are all replaceable, but all at once, that leaves the Bulls ridiculously thin in the frontcourt.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
exactly.
it’s not really the pain of losing those 3 guys, other than the fact we’ll then have amare and… gray? nocioni? uh, can you say ew? noah or tyrus needs to stay.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
You also need to find the replacements
before Amare takes his player option and bolts in 2010. This team would be losing all it’s good defenders, save Kirk. And doing nothing to thin the way too thick backcourt. Plus, this may make BG’s re-signing impossible (for those that had hope). This roster only found a bit of balance recently due to Drew Gooden’s groin. Making it more unbalanced will mean more loses for how long? And Amare how unhappy/how soon?
If he can be extended during the season due to trade? (I really don’t know, help!) That means there’s not much money for a very long time to find those replacements. It’s worse if draft picks are lost. Three young contributors on rookie salaries. You can’t trade Hughes and Noc for these type guys!
In other words, this’ll be the team, kinda. Stoudemire and Rose added to Pax’s old beloved core. Except maybe minus Gordon.
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
OK, tell me how you replace them
We limp through the remainder of the season with
1- Rose, Kirk
2- Gordon
3- Deng
4- Noc
5- Amare, Gray
And Hughes maybe unexiled?
This summer, we have no draft pick and we’ve got approximately $7.5M before we hit the luxury tax with which to fill out a minimum of 8 roster spots. And that doesn’t include Gordon and Gray, who will obviously be required to play big minutes.
This is pretty much a non-starter unless we can turn around and make several other deals. Why trade for a capstone piece like Amare if you have to turn around and immediately rebuild. Amare will completely wig out, behave poorly, and it’ll end in disaster.
That’s actually true of a lot of the Amare trade scenarios, even the ones that make sense basketball wise. The finances are extremely tricky. Unless someone who’s making money next year goes (Kirk, Noc, Hughes), we’ll be in an absolute world of hurt.
And unless that guy is Hughes, you run into the problem of creating a contender by trading for Amare, and then causing some chaos by immediately trading someone away for cap relief.
It’s a bit reminiscent of acquiring Wallace. At best, he opened up a little bit of a “window of opportunity” to get somewhere, but then we didn’t really go balls out to add on more players to get a team.
by Sports2 on Feb 9, 2009 11:45 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I completely agree...
Don’t do it unless we can keep at least ONE of TT or Noah.
Hypothetically though, if we were to acquire Amare, next to Rose, don’t you think we might be willing to go over the tax to sign another player? We’d be fools not to IMO.
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 9, 2009 11:51 PM CST up reply actions
Still
need to contend with BOS and CLE (+ORL). Need to defend. Need defenders.
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
Agreed...
But we won’t contend with what we have now. Need to shake something up.
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 10, 2009 12:00 AM CST up reply actions
No, I don't think so. Especially not when Jerry's already been crying poverty due to the economy.
The only way I can see it is if we have a plan in place pretty darn much immediately to start shipping off other guys for cap relief and/or 1 for 2 style trades.
I mean, if the Bulls follow it up with some sort of trading frenzy that balances everything out, then I can maybe see it, but that also strikes me as fairly unlikely.
When has Jerry been crying poverty?
When he paid Luol $71M or when he offered Gordon +$50M?
I have not heard that cry from the owner…what I have heard is that he is not willing to unnecessarily pay luxury tax for a lottery team.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 10, 2009 12:07 AM CST up reply actions
here.
http://www.blogabull.com/2008/12/19/697842/i-was-just-having-lunch-w
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 12:09 AM CST up reply actions
as to my guess re: when to pay the tax
Reinsdorf wouldn’t even pay it for a contending team. He’d pay for a team that already contended.
(just a guess)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 12:09 AM CST up reply actions
Not exactly crying poverty there...
The San Antonio Spurs, as a model, have shown that paying the tax is really not necessary to win championships…my understanding, and yours as well, is that if the team is already contending, the owner is willing to pay the tax…
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 10, 2009 12:14 AM CST up reply actions
that's a different argument
The Spurs likely literally cannot pay the tax under any circumstance. Reinsdorf dives into silos full of dollar coins like Scrooge McDuck.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 12:15 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Ha.
An organization that is well run is not a good example, only because the Bulls owner makes more money…?
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 10, 2009 12:21 AM CST up reply actions
Theres a huge difference between
running an organization really well under tight constraints and running an organization mediocrely with really wide margin for error.
They have the best PF of all time.
In comparison to other players, he should be making more than he is. But there’s a max. So there’s that constraint on their spending.
Plus, Ginobili, who is arguably a top-10 player in the league, took less than what he’s worth to stay with the team. The bulls couldn’t get Gordon to do that.
When the Bulls can do those two things, they can compare themselves to the Spurs.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
but
the Bulls drafted Gordon and not Ginobili. You have to put some of the blame on the Bulls for getting a guy who wanted more money than he’s worth than a guy who was willing to take less money than he’s worth.
So one of the questions they should ask potential draftees is
are you open to being screwed around with in contract negotiations?
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
its give and take
I’m not saying its easy to find guys like Ginobilli but give the Spurs some credit for it.
The first thing they shouldn't do...
…if they want to be compared to the Spurs, is to give ANDRES NOCIONI 5-YEAR CONTRACTS!!!!!!
The comparisons should begin and end right there.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
haha
well that was exactly his point. The Bulls arent as smart as the Spurs.
Or as "poor". Or as "lucky."
having money and spending money makes up for being dumb and unlucky.
seriously.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
No I understand the difference...
But it is irrelevant to the point I was making.
I am saying the Bulls owner is not crying poverty…he is willing to spend money, just not to the point of being penalized.
The Spurs ownership’s ability to pay tax is not related to fact they have won 4 titles without paying the tax. They are an example that shows that team does not have to overspend to win…
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
so, daft then.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 9:24 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I wonder
If we’d see Larry unleged at the 5….
Seriously we’d be very thin this year and wouldn’t have the dramatic turnaround, unless overnight Amar’e focuses on D. I don’t want to see Aaron Gray anymore on the court unless he’s there to pick up fouls against Shaq or D. Howard. He just can’t defend.
Noah
Doesn’t seem to be “replaceable” in the near future. He’ll be a good starting caliber C soon.
Tyrus might be a superstar in hiding/development….
So... Noah...
isn’t a starting caliber center yet, but, he’s irreplaceable?
I understand having young prospects, but damn, I’d really like to have a player who has already proved that he can accomplish something. Instead of just proving the potential to someday accomplish something.
Trade for Amare. Keep Deng and Rose. Figure out the rest later.
I'm not saying
He’s irreplaceable, but trying to imply that he’s coming along and will be better than he’s shown.
That’s all, I wasn’t clear though.
Yes I think we shojld ask for Richardson
Since they are asking for so much. Hell then we would have
Rose
Richardson
Deng
Stoudemire
Gray (Painful but necessary)
Ben Gordon can then lead the second unit with Noc…with Simmons bringing energy and Hinrich bringing defense.
Richardson can't be included in a multi-player deal
until 2 months after the date he was traded to PHX. They’d have to do 2 separate deals if they want him.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Feb 10, 2009 9:12 AM CST up reply actions
I don't believe that Kerr will get all three (Noah, Tyrus and Gooden)
He should get TWO of the three and Paxson should STILL try and get Richardson from the Suns. This will be a test of Paxsons skills and deft. Can he pull it off. If he does then chicago will become HIS town.
Our 2010 will be completed early and while the other teams are busy getting ready, we will be prepared and getting ready for a deep run in the playoffs.
Use the "reply" button, man.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Thanks I have you guys have me laughing daily
I hope we can keep Noah or Thomas, but If he has to move both of them I think we can survive.
The Trade could force other things in motion
It would force us to get Omer Asik in uniform, since he is projected as a center. Gray will due in the meanwhile though. Gray should learn how to shoot a jumper and then he could do what Luc Longley used to do.
From what I understand, the only thing keeping Asik from playing right now
is the fact that he’s under contract with his european team through next year. So I don’t think he’s a real option. Although I’m not positive.
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 9, 2009 11:07 PM CST up reply actions
Not only is he under contract through next year, but
he is also injured at the moment (rehabing in Chicago apparently).
The Game chose him !
I think Kerr is trying to play Pax like a fiddle
He’s hoping Pax is so desperate to make a move (he reads the papers just like we do and knows how bad Chicago wants to make a move) that he can pry both Noah and Tyrus off his hands. In that particular scenario, it has to be a no-go. You can’t give up BOTH Noah and Tyrus in the same deal. I’m all for including either, but not both.
If both have to be moved, that’s fine, but it needs to be in two separate deals.
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
Then we are going to see if Pax has what it takes to get it done.
Pax should not sit on his ass though.
Why?
I’d rather not give up both, but really who cares? One Amare Stoudamire and any other random starter is twice as good as what we’re currently running out there.
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 9, 2009 11:04 PM CST up reply actions
I'm trying to get myself behind this line of thinking, but I don't know if I can make the jump...
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Yeah
But I don’t think Pax is too trigger happy either….and Kerr knows this. ESPN is reporting though that once Phx gets the offer they’ll close and are not really seeking a 9th hour deadline day deal….
I think Kerr wants to play hardball, but Pax hasn’t had a history of moving on deals just to get them done (KG, Gasol, Kobe)….
He’s also made it through the 3 strikes you’re out stuff….
I would not want to give up both either
BUT this is a once in a lifetime chance that will change the direction of this franchise. If we want it all then we have to seize the moment and take a risk. No risk, no reward.
Once in a lifetime? Not so sure about that one.
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 9, 2009 11:10 PM CST up reply actions
Big men like Amare don't grow on trees.
Once in this life. The Jordan era is over. A new era can begin with Rose and Stoudemire.
If I remember correctly
didn’t we have the chance to get Kevin Garnett about 2 years ago? I’d say he’s on Amare’s level, and I don’t think that was a lifetime ago,
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 9, 2009 11:16 PM CST up reply actions
I wouldn't say Amare is on KG's level.
He is more like when Gasol was available…or Brand…a solid number getter, but not the piece you build a championship team around…
Luckily, we think Rose is that guy…so a solid complimentary piece like Amare might be okay.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 9, 2009 11:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I was trying to be sarcastic by pointing out that a guy that was even better was avilable recently
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 9, 2009 11:20 PM CST up reply actions
absolutely
I think KG was the ‘once in a lifetime’ (or once in whatever). Amare, Gasol, Bosh…they all have more glaring flaws. KG could be the team’s initiator on offense, defensive anchor, and team leader.
But as you said, Rose is going to be 2 of those things. Amare can just get a lot of dunks.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
(and I mean that last bit in a good way)
dunks are high-percentage shots!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
I disagree there
Amar’e’s far better than Brand or Gasol. He’s more explosive than KG, and you can build a contender around him (See Phx from what 2004-2008, a JJ injury, a crap suspension, and a play here or there and they would have won it all)….
Amar’e’s young and is as gifted as KG, just hasn’t had the intensity in his game. He IS a #1 guy to build your team around sort, Gasol (close to #1) and Brand (definately #2) aren’t.
He’s the best offensive big in the game.
I do think KG's better....
Just to put that out there, but the gap isn’t nearly as big as you’d think.
Apparently the gap is bigger than you think.
Dirk’s a better offensive player than Amare, so is Bosh, and I could make an argument for Gasol as well. And while statistically they’re quite as good offensively I’d rather have Duncan and Garnett on offense as well. Amare is clearly better than Brand though.
Phoenix won 54 games and went to the Western Conference finals without Amare. He’s a great player that added 6-8 wins to the team, but let’s not pretend that the Suns were built around Stoudemire. They were built around Nash.
Gasp?
I completely disagree. Maybe agree with Dirk, though he’s not quite as gifted on the block. Bosh isn’t Amar’e on offense.
Yes, Bosh is.
He has four straight years of at least a 58% TS%. He has gotten to the line 8 times per game in each of the last four seasons. He’s not a great pass, but he’s a willing passer. Low turnover rates, and at least an ORtg of 112 in each of the last four seasons. He did this, while carrying his team offensively. Same thing with Dirk, he carried the Mavs while still putting up seasons just as good as anything Amare has done.
I hope you read Marionette’s detailed post about Amare. Amare’s post game isn’t what you think it is.
Stats don't help you here... Amare is the better offensive player
Amare has 4 straight years of 61% TS% or higher. He has an offensive rating of over 114 (last year 124) in each of his last 4 full seasons. In his last 4 full seasons he has averaged 10 fts, 8 fts, 9 fts and 7 fts respectively. In the last 3 seasons prior to this one, Amare has had a higher rebounding rate than Bosh. This is the first full season Amare has played where Bosh has a higher PER than Amare. Bosh is the better passer and commits less turnovers, but that is basically it. In every other way, Amare has been a bettter offensive player than Bosh.
Basically, this is the first year ever Bosh has played better than Amare on the offensive end. When you factor in Amare’s complaints about the Suns offense and no longer being the go to guy in the post, its not hard to imagine Amare outplaying Bosh on the offensive side in the future.
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 10, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And this is why context matters.
The stats help me because I understood the context they were accrued in.
translation:
i can’t find any proof to back up my assertion that Bosh is a better offensive player than Amare – so I’ll just make some vague allusion to context.
Seriously, what context do you need? Bosh and Amare have been the feature inside players on their team for the length of their careers. Bosh is even more of a jumpshooter than Amare and less likely to back his man in the post. Yes, Amare has played with better players, but he has also been more efficient in his opportunities, rebounded at higher rates and has had far greater success.
If you believe Bosh is better offensively that is fine, but don’t act as if the numbers back you up.
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 10, 2009 3:29 PM CST up reply actions
sorry for the snark
I enjoy your posts, but if you think Bosh is better on offense, make your case. All the stats say otherwise. If you look at their careers objectively, Amare has been more productive thus far. Bosh is more finesse compared to Amare’s power. All things being equal, I would prefer Amare’s power on offense.
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 10, 2009 3:35 PM CST up reply actions
It's true...
It seems pretty clear that Stoudemire is a better offensive player than Bosh…
And that’s not me getting carried away in hype… as I believe that Bosh overall is a much much better player. Amare doesn’t do anything well besides score, it just so happens that he is one of the premier scorers in the world.
Trade for Amare. Keep Deng and Rose. Figure out the rest later.
Also,
I think offensively, Amare is possibly a better fit for us. He doesn’t have “low post” moves, like a Kareem, but he has played the pick and roll his whole career and proven to be a lethal finisher. And, he is an underrated midrange shooter, And he gets fouled a lot.
But, then again, I think Bosh’s ability to pass effectively out of double teams could give him the advantage. I guess I’m undecided here.
Trade for Amare. Keep Deng and Rose. Figure out the rest later.
Fine. I'll explain how context matters several ways.
1st, try this hypothetical exercise. Combine the Suns and Raptors rosters over the last couple of years excluding Bosh and Amare. How many Raptors start? How many are in the rotation? Think one of the had an easier situation offensively?
Still not convinced that context matters? Here’s the statistical arguments. Over the last four full seasons Bosh and Amare have had similar USG, 26.4 and 26.9 respectively. So they’re responsible for a similar share of the offense, which makes for easier comparison. Bosh’s ORtg over this period was 115. Amare’s was of course a higher 119. Amare win right? Argument over.
But, the Suns averaged an awesome 113 ORtg over those for seasons and Raptors averaged a strong 108 ORtg. Now who has the bigger gap between their own ORtg and the team’s?
Why do their team’s offensive rating matter? Because the better the offensive players around you, the more easy shots you get. Swap Bosh and Amare and how many easy dunks does Amare still get? Stoudemire has been trying to dunk on between 16-20% of his FGA each of the last four seasons. Bosh has never attempted to dunk on less than 10% of his FGA in the last four seasons. Think Bosh would dunk more than 10% of his FGA in Phoenix?
This shows up in how often their inside baskets are assisted. Bosh never had more than 56% of his inside baskets assisted. Until this season Stoudemire has had at least 67% of his inside baskets assisted. This season only 55% of his inside baskets have been assisted, and surprise surprise Stoudemire’s FG% drops to 53%. That’s the Stoudemire the Bulls would be getting. The Bulls would be trying to get to Toronto’s level offensively with Stoudemire. The environment where Stoudemire could dunk a 1/5th of his shots is out of reach.
So Stoudemire is at least in the same league as Bosh. And if you could consider Bosh’s wider range of skills, particularly netter passing, and greater consistency I believe you can understand that Bosh is the better player. As I said context matters.
::dreams of Amare trying to dunk 20% of his shots as a Bull::
sorry, I missed the rest :-)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 4:52 PM CST up reply actions
you're right
context matters, so you can realize that Shaq’s presence this year is hurting Stoudemire’s numbers.
Also, you act as if the Bulls dont have someone to feed Stoudemire. We want to get Rose as involved as possible so the fact that Stoudemire’s baskets are more often assisted is a plus, not a minus. He is the better fit. Bosh is more of a one on one player.
Where's the head
hitting a brick wall icon?
by Scotter on Feb 10, 2009 5:04 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
right
because you wouldn’t want to actually use some evidence to counter my comments.
your "Shaq" argument pales in comparison...
…to Scotter’s. Put in the work he did and you might get a response. Instead of using “you can realize”, do a little more work.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
why?
I’m not getting paid to do this, its been written 100 times by journalists and just watching games can tell you that.
Plus he’s the one only presenting one side of the coin, acting like there’s no context to this season.
No, but you're being a jerk about it.
Scotter obviously put a lot of thought and research into it and you reply w/ “just look!” Yeah, because that flies around here.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
Counter what?
Bosh is more of a 1 on 1 player, but he has to be a 1 on 1 player and because he has the skills to be a 1 on 1 player. Stoudemire’s assisted% is primarily a by product of playing with Nash, in a system that featured leaking out and often put four 3-point shooters on the floor with him. Which situation is more analogous to the Bulls, Phoenix or Toronto.
Given how much you were all over Beasley’s jock strap, I can’t possibly believe that Rose is going to match Nash as an offensive player anytime soon.
Phoenix this year is still better offensively than the Bulls can hope to be anytime soon even with Amare. Playing with Shaq doesn’t hurt Amare as much as playing with the Bulls as the star player would. All Shaq is doing is providing a more realistic picture of what Amare could do in a closer to normal setting. Shaq may be preventing him from doing what he did in previous seasons, but that doesn’t mean he’d be better off playing with Rose, Gordon, and Deng than he would be playing with Nash, Shaq, Barbosa, etc. I hope you can understand that.
haha
What does my liking Beasley have to do with you not believing Rose is going to match Nash anytime soon?
I don’t think Rose will be as good as Nash anytime soon, relatively speak, but this trade wouldnt be about right now. And we all hope here that Rose is at least as good as Nash. In three years he could be and Amare would still be in his prime. And I sure how that Rose, Gordon and Deng are better than the current Nash, Shaq and Barbosa pretty soon, considering the Suns are barely in the playoffs.
I never said Bosh is worse on offense than Amare but I do know that Bosh plays more one on one which means drawing the double team and guess who they’ll chose to double team off. Rose, our not great shooter. With the pick and roll game that everyone knows is Amares bread and butter Rose will be attacking the hoops and we know he and Amare are both unstoppable in that fashion, teams are gonna have to choose which one will kill them. It’s about fit for me.
Whether or not its Shaq or Porter’s featuring of Shaq that matters, we can agree that he didn’t have 12 point games before Shaq became the focal point of the offense. Imagine what would happen to Bosh’s numbers if the same thing happened to him. But anyway its a moot point because it looks like we have a legit shot at getting Amare and theres nothing to say we have that same shot at Bosh anytime soon.
And seriously, adding a little jab like “I hope you can understand that” doesn’t help anything.
Most inside players are one-on-one players
That’s why someone like KG is so rare because he can actually initiate offense. Amare certainly can’t do that. And Shaq isn’t the problem in Phoenix, it’s Terry Porter. Last year after the Shaq trade Amare actually played some of his best basketball. The sample sizes of now and last season after the trade are roughly the same, I’d blame the coaching and playcalling.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 10, 2009 7:17 PM CST up reply actions
Bosh is just as good offensively
He just isn’t as explosive or athletic as Amare. He can still explode for those monster games just as well as Stoudemire. Add that he’s a better rebounder, defender, and there aren’t any negative rumors about being a malcontent, he’s a much better fit for this team.
But, since he’s not available, Amare is a damn good option.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 10, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
Just so its out there.
The Phoenix team was built around Nash, not Amare. And they never made the finals, regardless of the excuses you have made.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
and if they made the finals
you’d say they never one a title. And Pau Gasol was 0-12 in the playoffs.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 2:54 PM CST up reply actions
*won a title
(clearly, heh)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 2:54 PM CST up reply actions
Chris Bosh hasn't won a playoff series
Dirk is a choker. It’s Tim Duncan or bust!
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 10, 2009 2:55 PM CST up reply actions
Honestly.
I have no idea why the Celtics rolled the dice on Garnett last year. He was nothing but a loser.
by arjoseph on Feb 10, 2009 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
They signed James Posey to back everyone up
He had his ring.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 10, 2009 2:58 PM CST up reply actions
Neither
Did the Knicks (Ewing); the Jazz (Malone/Stockton); and a gazillion other players.
Last I looked too Amar’e’s 26, which ain’t even the typical “prime” and had it not been for his own injury—costing them 1 year, a Joe Johnson injury—costing them another year, and a garbage suspension that was the most controversal league call in history, the Suns very well could have won at least 1 if not 2 titles….
Titles aren’t always everything, Amar’e’s proven to be a very title contending big man.
I don’t seem to recall the Suns having Nash and then going on to get Amar’e to play next to him….I think that was reversed. Nash and Amar’e were always neck and neck in terms of importance to those teams. It wasn’t like MJ and Scottie even, it was like 2 Scottie’s, one an older Scottie on the slight decline and the other a younger Scottie on the way up.
the anwser still might be no
there were probably better candidates both years, does he win either one if they dont build up such an exciting, fun to watch reputation?
Yes.
It was mostly because they were so explosive together and then they held on “without Amar’e” that he got the second won.
Nash was always good
I’m not saying otherwise. I liked him a lot during the Dallas game and recall just before the Phx trade to ask who I thought were the top 3 PG’s by my now brother in law, and I said I’d take Nash for sure in that discussion (I know I’m patting my own shoulder, but I’m just saying Nash was underrated).
I think he most definately deserved at least 1 of those MVP’s…even with the lack of D, he’s solid.
But like anything else I don’t think he’d quite be what he was without the team around him and the system.
He won what 54 games that year without Amar’e, when Diaw came out of nowhere and was a surprisingly efficient player for really the only time so far in his career. Plus they had Marion at his peak, and the weakest division in basketball sans maybe the atlantic (the Lakers were just the Kobe-Odom troupe and the now nice pieces they had weren’t really ready to be bigger time compliments, plus no Fisher)…
He's definitley a step above Brand
But, you’re right. This is basically the Gasol rumors all over again.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 10, 2009 2:57 PM CST up reply actions
We blew it...
Because Pax didn’t play with McHale. Ainge did. Simple really.
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 9, 2009 11:22 PM CST up reply actions
We blew it because Boston had
Al Jefferson. The best young low post presence in the league. We didn’t have anyone on his level.
If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.
by Chi 'Till I Die on Feb 10, 2009 10:11 AM CST up reply actions
also with knee issues and plays no defense
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 10:39 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Good call.
How could I forget.
If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.
by Chi 'Till I Die on Feb 10, 2009 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
I agree with Khalid
Our offer of I think it was Chandler-Gordon-Hinrich and the draft pick that I believe became Joakim Noah or Tyrus Thomas was far better than what Minny got for KG.
The proposed deal was Deng, Tyson, and the number 2 pick
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 10, 2009 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
Right.
The #2 pick that turned into Tyrus Thomas, the centerpiece of our Amare proposal.
If I remember correctly, the sticking point was that McHale wanted Deng plus either Gordon or Hinrich, and we weren’t willing to trade two of our three core pieces.
Instead of two starters in Deng and Tyson, plus about as high a pick as you’ll ever see in a trade, McHale took one starter (even at that early age, people expected Jefferson to be a starter-quality guy) and dross. Totally not Paxson’s fault.
by arjoseph on Feb 10, 2009 2:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree.
I think there are some things that you can pin on Pax and certainly some things you can pin on JR, but the KG deal was not one of them. We got screwed. Pax was trying hard to get him and we offered the better deals. McHale went “homer” on that one. If only Kerr would go “homer” with us this time!
I wouldn't include anyone
outside of Hughes/Gooden/Hinrich/Noch/Thabo/Gray
They’re the ones looking to move Stoudamire.
I’m not about to mortgage our future for a guy we could get in 2 years anyway
I offer them 3 of the above guys + our first rounder top 5 protected.
And if they don’t like it shove it.
We’re their only serious trading partner, so they have no choice if they’re really looking to just dump him then they will.
If they don’t like it tough cookies.
We’ll get Amare or Bosh in 2 years anyway.
That is not guaranteed.
We played that Game with Duncan and McGrady. If we can get him now we should go for it.
Nothing is guarenteed
How are we suppose to know that Amare would even fit in with our team?
As far as we know, Vinny could hate Stoudamire and it could cause a rift in the team a la Skilies/Wallace
There's so many reasons why that logic sucks, but I'm too lazy to write 'em all down.
"One thing I do know is teams like a lot of our pieces. That's not to say they want to give us a lot of players in return, but I know they like a lot of our pieces." - John Paxson (1/21/09)
by Juiceboxjerry on Feb 9, 2009 11:18 PM CST up reply actions
If Amare doesn't want to come here in 2010
what makes you think that when we trade for him he’ll want to stay here.
What’s gonna stop him from opting out anyway?
And if we trade for him, and then he opts out we’re left with Rose/Deng.
No Tyrus/Noah/Thabo
And who knows about BG
He would have to sign an extension.
The old contract could not stay the same. Like I said 2010 today.
That is probably why it is taking so long
Amare is already talking in past tense about the Suns. I think that those details are being worked out now. I think he knows that he is gone.
What does "fit" mean....
He is there to help us win, not kiss ass. You may not get along with your co-workers at work, but you get the job done.
He could be a complete knucklehead. The same could have been said about Dennis Rodman when we got him. I was shocked but they made it work.
Somehow they did, with all of his baggage that he bought to Chicago and his antics, but we remember 72 wins and the championships.
Not his foolishness.
Completely different team
You had guys like Pippen and Jordan to keep Rodman in line.
Who would keep Amare in line?
We’re bringing in a veteran who I don’t think would take too kindly to VDN’s criticisms.
Granted VDN might not be all too smart himself, but he is the head coach.
Do you really think we can win with
Rose
Gordon
Deng
Hinrich
Amare
Noch
And who knows what’s gonna happen with BG.
I don’t think that’s a winning team it has no depth.
And if we’re not winning I guarantee Amare would be bitching.
That won't be a problem
Amare will understand IN THE DOOR that this is Roses Team and Chicago is Roses City.
The FANS will keep him in check. He is going to understand it quickly that his legacy will be tied to Derrick Rose.
If he intends on being anything in Chicago. If there is an issue who do you think is going to go?
I don't think it matters either
Amare can think he’s the man whether he is or not, Rose isn’t going to overtly get in his way.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 9:25 AM CST up reply actions
And
I seem to recall Amar’e being fine wtih Nash.
I think his issues relay with Porter and Kerr, not any of the Suns players. He’s said so basically himself (saying he’s never been a locker room issue guy, is very vocal and friendly with his teammates).
I think the pressure he’s been giving the defenders is a reason why Shaq’s numbers have been so solid, and Amar’e’s sick of being second fiddle in the post when he’s clearly the more talented player at this stage of his career than Shaq….
VDN
Has not been overly critical of his players (Deng’ll come around, we’re not worried about Luol at all, when Deng was looking like the 2nd coming of the last year of Tyson Chandler as a Bull this year)….
He was critical of Noah and Tyrus, saying they needed to better prepare for the games, and it looks like his critiques have come through.
He’s put Rose in big situations and even if he makes a mistake, he’s said he’s learning and was glad with his decisions.
he’s started BG and hasn’t been the “he’s garbage” crap that Skiles constantly did.
VDN’s been very positive when talking aobut this “underperforming” team.
He doesn’t have a handle of the x’s and o’s quite yet, especially in late game situations, and some of the sub patterns have been more than questionable, but he has been fair and it seems the guys all say they enjoy playing for him, so on the criticsim comment that’s just flat out wrong.
Skiles on the other hand would instantly bench Amar’e and through him under the bus to the press if he didn’t do what Skiles asked.
You act like othet teams don't want Amare.
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 9, 2009 11:16 PM CST up reply actions
* other teams
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 9, 2009 11:16 PM CST up reply actions
Now but who are the other teams who want him?
The Heat and Nets are the main other two.
I still think Gooden/Noch/Hinrich/Hughes/Thabo/Gray is better then anything Miami or the Nets can throw at the Suns.
Well...
Every other team in the NBA wants him, and in fact New Jersey has already made an offer far better than the one you have suggested.
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 9, 2009 11:20 PM CST up reply actions
Well he's not staying in the West so that takes out half the league.
And what did the Nets offer I must have missed that
It's not pretty...
But far from some crappy combination of Hughes/Gooden/Hinrich/Noch/Thabo/Gray.
http://www.blogabull.com/2009/2/8/753228/nets-make-offer-for-stoude#comments
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 9, 2009 11:26 PM CST up reply actions
Yi Jianlian and Ryan Anderson....
How is that better then
Gooden/Hinrich/Thabo/Gray?
Gooden is a expiring deal.
Hinrich is a much needed back-up for Nash.
Thabo/Gray would add to Kerr’s idea for defense.
I have no idea who Ryan Anderson is, but I know Yi has been a pretty mediocre player.
Yi is still young (ie: on his cheap cheap cheap rookie contract)...
He was a bust in Milwaukee, but improving nicely in NJ. Plus he’s 7 feet tall and can hit the 3 at 40%. So yeah, he’s FAR better than any of the Bulls you mentioned (Including our fallen hero Hinrich). FYI, they don’t need a backup for Nash (Barbosa spells him quite nicely now). Also, NJ is offering a 1st round pick, again, far better than Gooden/Hinrich/Thabo/or Gray. Gooden as an expiring is nice, but if they don’t get at least one young prospect (ie: Yi) for Amare you can bet that Kerr will lose his job.
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 9, 2009 11:38 PM CST up reply actions
Also...
Ryan Anderson is a very decent offensive prospect (on his rookie contract) who could easily average a double double given the minutes in the right system (read up tempo). He was a stud in college. Look him up before you pass this deal off. (he was a Pac 10 guy, and Kerr knows his Pac 10 guys for sure).
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 9, 2009 11:45 PM CST up reply actions
I'm just not a fan of getting rid of all our young players
for a guy we have the same chance at in 2010.
Neither am I...
But one of Tyrus or Noah and a draft pick would be more than fine by me.
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 9, 2009 11:47 PM CST up reply actions
It would have to be Tyrus
And Tyrus only.
We need Noah cuz we need a Center.
Whether Amare starts at PF or C we still need a back-up big man.
And I don’t think Tyrus can play Center.
Gray is a back up big...
And when your starter averages 37 minutes you don’t see much of him at all.
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 9, 2009 11:55 PM CST up reply actions
Then who is our PF?
Deng?
We need Noah cuz he can play defense againt the PFs and Centers in the league. Gray and Thomas can not.
Gray is too slow to play PFs and Thomas is too small to play Centers.
Tyrus...
If we trade Noah we start TT at PF.
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 9, 2009 11:59 PM CST up reply actions
If we trade TT...
We start Amare at Center with Gray backing him up and put Noah at PF.
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 10, 2009 12:02 AM CST up reply actions
What? No.
If we trade TT and keep Noah, then Noah plays C and Amare plays PF.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Wait...
Not sure why I wrote that.
You are correct.
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 10, 2009 12:04 AM CST up reply actions
I'm tired.
Time for bed.
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 10, 2009 12:05 AM CST up reply actions
No worries
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Of course you do!
Love’s funny that way….
::humming::
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
yi
is probably the best player an owner can acccquire. Imagine how much money he makes you with all the fans from China and everything on that cheap rookie contract. Are there any Chinese people in Phoenix?
by Sambossanova on Feb 9, 2009 11:58 PM CST up reply actions
I think Kerr wants to win
If it was all about money why would he be trading a starter for the All-Star Team.
And one of the best big men in the history of the league?
He wants to get his team in the playoffs.
Obviously keeping Shaq and Amare on the team would hinder this.
This he’s making a move to help him win.
by Edicus2288i on Feb 10, 2009 12:02 AM CST up reply actions
Actually it is all about money...
He wants young prospects and draft picks plus expiring deals. None of that screams “win now” to me.
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 10, 2009 12:03 AM CST up reply actions
The fact that Nash is untouchable
doesn’t actually scream rebuilding either.
And then why wouldn’t he want Gooden/Hughes.
That’s 9 million off the books this year.
11 million next year.
Add Thabo’s small small cheap cheap rookie contract and there you go.
by Edicus2288i on Feb 10, 2009 12:07 AM CST up reply actions
It's also about the future...
They do want expiring contracts, but they also want prospects.
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 10, 2009 12:08 AM CST up reply actions
Nash is about money too!
If they trade Amar’e, they take a small hit from the fans, because about half of them want him gone. That means some people are mad, but a large group are happy, not affecting ticket sales and season ticket packages (which are being sold now) near as much as trading Nash. Steve is the face of the franchise. The fan base would lose their minds if he traded Nash, even though it would make much more basketball sense to keep the 26 year old All-Star starter over a 35 year old former MVP who is declining rapidly. It’s all about revenue for Sarver right now, not winning, although, to keep the revenue up, they have to keep the appearance of “winning”, therefore “prospects” instead of a straight salary dump like Gooden and Hughes.
I am sure
A lot more teams want him than what is being reported. Hell I didn’t remember seeing anything on the KG front with Boston until it happened, and while this is lesser, I didn’t hear any whispers of Ben Wallace and Cleveland until late in the game last year.
don't you?
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
Awesome
It appears the Suns are open to a package of Thomas, Thabo Sefolosha, Drew Gooden, Cedric Simmons and undetermined draft picks for Stoudemire. One question now is whether better offers will come at the Suns in the days leading up to the Feb. 19 trade deadline.
MAKE IT HAPPEN PAX!!!!
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
It sucks to lose Thabo in that deal...
Without getting a SG in return…
When Ben Gordon leaves next Summer, the Bulls will be left with Hinrich and Hughes to man that slot next season.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 10, 2009 12:09 AM CST up reply actions
Thabo can be replaced by a d-leaguer
to be honest.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 12:10 AM CST up reply actions
Do you miss Eddie Basden?
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 10, 2009 12:11 AM CST up reply actions
every day.
though I don’t even think Basden’s in the D-League, is he?
honestly, replacing a wing who can’t score isn’t that hard. Thabo has some nice skills but he’s very replaceable.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 12:13 AM CST up reply actions
Khalid El-Amin could come back...
He was tearing it up over seas!
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 10, 2009 12:13 AM CST up reply actions
He is
My only qualm is that he plays very well with Rose, and if he had more minutes he would be a pretty decent guard.
And I like Simmons over Gray because Gray kinda sucks
by Edicus2288i on Feb 10, 2009 12:14 AM CST up reply actions
Basen was just an example...
I don’t follow the D-League…
I don’t think Thabo. a lottery pick, is replaceable by a D-League player…but, the draft position doesn’t really matter…I wouldn’t mind giving up Thabo if we got a SG in exchange…My concern is entering next season with Hughes and Hinrich as our only options for SG…
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 10, 2009 12:18 AM CST up reply actions
They could probably sign Anthony Parker to a MLE deal
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 10, 2009 2:35 PM CST up reply actions
Oh gawd
We are so f’d.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 9:28 AM CST up reply actions
If TT blows up after this trade,
I’m going to punch something VERY HARD.
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
Sometimes you don't know the value of what you have
until you don’t have it anymore.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 1:20 PM CST up reply actions
your goodbye post?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 1:21 PM CST up reply actions
We'd get Amare and you're actually worried about losing Thabo??!?! What?!?!
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
I am not worried about losing Thabo per se...
I am worried about not having a shooting guard on the roster next season.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 10, 2009 12:15 AM CST up reply actions
Obviously, Larry Hughes does not count....
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 10, 2009 12:15 AM CST up reply actions
unfortunately Hinrich does
honestly, he’s made of teflon.
But it’s possible with him and Hughes (and Noc) the Bulls could swing another deal…
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 12:16 AM CST up reply actions
I hear that he has value around the league.
And so does Noc.
Hopefully another deal could be made…in fact, if Thabo were traded, it would be imperative that another deal be made.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 10, 2009 12:22 AM CST up reply actions
Maybe we can find an undrafted project, a la GSW.
They seem to pluck wings off of trees in their back yard.
You find guys on the street
that can score in the NBA. Why do you think so many players want to go to GSW and then when they get there want to get the hell out?
Golden State finds these players because they ask them to create offense and the crop to harvest from is long, wide, and bountiful.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
Don't be
We’ll likely still have Kirk, and Kirk’ll be more useful as a foil with Rose-Amar’e.
Duel PG’s can work fine when you have a real inside offensive presence (see the Jazz with Fisher and a still improving D-Will for one).
Damnit,
I’m gonna miss Thabo and Tyrus….
Oh wait, I’m in the Phx metro area! ;-)
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
If Reinsdorf wants to KEEP making money
he will do it.
Chicago would be on fire
asses would be in the seats.
i think this seems reasonable...
but it’d make me sad to see tyrus go.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
Me too, but I'm sick of being mediocre (and worse, really)
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Pull the trigger.
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 10, 2009 12:15 AM CST up reply actions
LOL
The quest to trade Larry Hughes continues and the most promising destination still appears to be Washington for forward Etan Thomas and guard Mike James.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
works for me.
Hinrich become dealable then, as the James could be the backup point
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 12:17 AM CST up reply actions
and it's always nice to have an oaf who can play some interior D and foul guys from time to time
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Were you drinking last night?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 9:29 AM CST up reply actions
James can't play 12 minutes?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 9:30 AM CST up reply actions
He actually has worked fairly decently for Washington.
I’d be OK with him playing 10 minutes a game. We still have Hunter. They can rotate getting the 10 back up minutes. I love Hinrich, but 5 points and 5 assists is not worth 10 MEAL-LEON DOLLARS! (Dr. Evil holds his pinky to his mouth).
that is a perfect trade if the deal for Amare goes down
some depth to fill out the roster. c’mon Kerr. One more play for the Bulls!
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 10, 2009 12:19 AM CST up reply actions
Etan is out for the year, so it's basically just adding one shitty player for a shitty player who currently doesn't play
We may well just be better of letting Hughes out of the doghouse.
what are the contracts like
for etan and james?
new thread for Hughes-to-Wizards
http://www.blogabull.com/2009/2/10/754816/hughes-update
-traffic cop
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 10:35 AM CST up reply actions
You'd think that with Paxson loving Joakim so much
he would’ve told VDN to play him more than 15mpg for the first third of the season…
Paxson does not get involved in such matters :-)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 12:11 AM CST up reply actions
Didn't you see him sucking wind?
He was out of shape the first third of the season.
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 10, 2009 12:11 AM CST up reply actions
too much Tyrus/Noah love....
if trading both players is the only way to get Amare….PULL THE TRIGGER!! This is a no brainer….Amare can outproduce both players in a single game more often than not….didnt he have like a 50pt 15 rebound game earlier this year???
Man, I agree
This is Amare, not Kareem. If this trade goes down, I see us approximately on a level with Minnesota as far as a big two, and wayyyyyyy the hell behind them for the other 10 (with their four first round picks). We will be so dependent on lucking into some talent to put around them that I can’t see how this becomes a winning team. I like the idea that if we want him at a max salary and if he wants to be here, just buy him in 2010 The chance that this deal could go Ben Wallace on us scares the crap out of me.
by California Al on Feb 10, 2009 12:52 AM CST up reply actions
Minnesota? Seriously?
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Minnesota has a ton of lottery picks coming
Even with the one they have to give up to the Clippers.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
Who is Minnesota's Big 2?
Al Jefferson and Kevin Love? Lolz. Spare me that bullshit.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
I just pointed out that they have a lot of picks coming in the draft
I didn’t say Love & Jefferson are some awesome duo.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
Sorry, I meant to respond to Cal Al
….and wow, your sig is, um, over the top?
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Funny you bring this up
It seems that way, but there is something that drove this. I wanted to take advantage of the new format to add more to my sig than I could under the old SBN. I couldn’t do the whole thing before, but now I can. For those who are curious where it comes from, now they know.
You can look at it over the top, or you can look at it as fully explanatory. All depends on your point of view.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
Dead serious
Foye and AJ going 2 on 2 w Rose and Amare would be a dead heat. All four can score at will, especially since none of them would play d.
by California Al on Feb 10, 2009 12:56 AM CST up reply actions
Wait - you think Randy Foye is as good as Derrick Rose?
Christ…
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Hold on a sec
Is he as good as Rose? Stats are about identical. Is he as good as I think Rose will be? Hell no. But for now, that’s a pretty good game of 2 on 2, no?
by California Al on Feb 10, 2009 1:06 AM CST up reply actions
And did you forget that Deng and Gordon are on the team?
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Gordon is probably as good as gone
if we have to pay Amare enough to take him out of the market. Then with Noah ad TT going, look at a lineup of Rose-Kirk-Deng-Gray-Amare, with Noc backing up the 4 and 5. Amare’s good, real good. Not good enough to strip the team for, imo. He adds about 5 points to TT’s projected output. Maybe less if his defensive effort is on again off again.
Like I said, this has so much potential to repeat dumping Tyson to get BW, it scares the hell out of me. Amare was a malcontent when they were winning, and worse when their winning less. How confident are you that once he gets everything he wants (starring role, max contract) that he doesn’t go into semi-retirement ala BW? I’m not convinced, that’s all.
by California Al on Feb 10, 2009 1:13 AM CST up reply actions
And you think
Al Jefferson is as solid as Amar’e?
That’s a laugh.
Al Jefferson’s a lesser Gasol who might be more like Pau in a year or two when he plays some D.
Amar’e’s the best offensive big in the entire league.
I'd rather have Jefferson
than Amare. I’ve watched a lot of Jefferson living in Minneapolis. He put it together this season.
Same here
Jefferson is better than Amare. Neither is very good on defense, but Jefferson can rebound effectively at both ends.
I hope his knee injury is followed with a full recovery.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
it's close, I'd probably rather have Jefferson too
if his knee was currently attached. And if he was actually available.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, pretty much
but that argument would be splitting hairs. Of course, with Scotter, NBAO and YFBB sounding in on my side, I feel a little more confident in the comparison.
by California Al on Feb 10, 2009 4:37 PM CST up reply actions
If Deng can hit those open jumpers
and cut to the basket with a purpose then we will be better than Minnesota. Deng play will dictate how far we go. If Stoudemire comes to town.
vs IND
Next meeting he was outplayed by Troy Murphy.
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
There's also been talk
OF TYSON CHANDLER returning to the Bulls (espn.com). I would imagine if they’d report that that Pax has had some feeler conversations with NO. Man if Skiles didn’t mess up this team we would have had Tyson already and been able to do a deal of Tyson-Noah-Thabo for Amar’e.
The only problem I have that trade is that it doesn't clear any cap room this summer
So we can resign BG.
We need to move Hughes and or Noch in a separate to clear up some space
I think if we add Amare
and make some noise in the playoffs, even if we get ousted in the first round.
He stays.
I think he really likes it here, and would stay if we ever gave him a fair offer.
Plus I doubt there would be many other suitors for him with everyone waiting for 2010
by Edicus2288i on Feb 10, 2009 12:21 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think it's all about the money with BG
I know Reinsdorf would like us to think so.
But I think BG just wants to win and as long as we give him a decent contract.
50 mil 5 years
He’ll take it
by Edicus2288i on Feb 10, 2009 12:31 AM CST up reply actions
I think a team of
Rose
BG
Deng
Amare
Noah
With a bench of
Hinrich
Noch
Gray
Hughes or whatever we get for him
I think that’s a contending team no doubt.
Therefore Reinsdorf better live up to his promise of venturing into the luxury tax if we can win championships.
by Edicus2288i on Feb 10, 2009 12:35 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I agree with this
I’d love that team.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
I very much like that team
Would all fan bases be happy?
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
I love McGraw's report
Feb. 19 can’t come fast enough. The Bulls could finally have their all-star!
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 10, 2009 12:17 AM CST reply actions
if only there was some place to look such things up...
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 12:18 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I think he was talking about an I Phone.
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 10, 2009 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
The Games after All Star Weekend are
Feb 18th Milwaukee
Feb 20th Denver
Feb 22nd Indiana
Feb 24th Orlando – Possible Stoudemire and Howard Matchup
I agree that phoenix won’t trade Stoudemire until AFTER the All Star Game, so If we get him he may debut in Denver or Indiana.
Sun Times:
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/basketball/bulls/1421595,CST-SPT-bull10.article
But a source shot down one report that the Bulls and Miami Heat were the front-runners to land Stoudemire, saying the two teams that have offered the most for the All-Star forward have yet to be publicly identified.
According to Miami media, the Heat has been trying to get Suns president Steve Kerr to take back Shawn Marion, who went to Miami for Shaquille O’Neal last February. The Heat also likely would have to part with forward Michael Beasley, whom it selected with the second pick in the draft last summer after the Bulls took Derrick Rose.
Where is KC on all of this?
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Crying in a corner
Wondering why he and VDN don’t hang out more often
by Edicus2288i on Feb 10, 2009 12:22 AM CST up reply actions
He's against it
ON CLTV he said the lack of defense the team would have in its big 3 – Amare Rose Deng – doesnt equal a champion in his mind. He kept bringing up the point that scouts around the league think the Celts and Spurs are the model franchises because of their D.
He did say Pax might have to just make this move to make a move because if he doesn’t the fans will kill him after the break.
A lot of that is coaching, though.
Sure, the Celts and Spurs have good defensive players, but they also have a defensive organizational ethos that has nothing to do with the players. I mean, Tony Parker and Ray Allen are not known for their defense at all, and they’re crucial guys on those teams.
Point: if we commit ourselves to D as an org (and maybe get a better coach than VDN), I have no doubt Amare and Rose could be good defensive players.
deng's not a bad defender
and rose is only 20. amare is probably a lost cause on D, but there’s no reason rose can’t be at least average on D, and deng i’d almost say is already above average
I still think...
that because Amar’e has the physical tools to be a good defender, that, when the game is on the line, or in the playoffs, he should be passable on D.
That’s just a hypothesis, I haven’t gone back and watched his playoff film or anything. It’s just that since defense is mostly effort, I expect him to be better when he really wants to win.
Trade for Amare. Keep Deng and Rose. Figure out the rest later.
it's part of the problem with trying to measure and value defense
I agree that a motivated Amare is likely passable on that end. The Suns were once an average defensive team with him back there. He won’t be a peak Tyrus Thomas, but that gap will just have to be filled elsewhere.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 1:46 PM CST up reply actions
Do you think Amare has been a better defender this year?
As compared to years past? Specifically to the Terry Porter system today as compared to D’Antoni’s system of the past.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 1:54 PM CST up reply actions
whatever the system
Phoenix’s defense went in a free-fall since Porter took over. Unless you mean talking about defense. Porter and Kerr did a lot of that! That’s (talking about) championship basketball!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
So KC would rather have Tyrus Thomas than Amare Stoudemire?
Yeah, now THAT’S gonna lead us to a championship!!!!!!
Who else does he suppose we get? Does he think we’re supposed to hold out for the miniscule chance we land Chris Bosh? Ridiculous thinking.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Amare, Deng, Rose
Sound like enough weapons to compete against Lebron and any cast of characters?
We play the Eastern Conference. If we’re not built to beat Lebron we should be rethinking our strategy.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 10:32 AM CST up reply actions
Then what the hell else do you suggest we do?
Maybe we can trade for Dwight Howard!!!!!!!!!!!
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Pump the Amare rumors
Get other teams to overpay for him. Use the black arts for what they worth. Use smoke and mirrors to get more clubs to commit beyond the 2010 Summer and trade Andres Nocioni and Kirk Hinrich.
If we get Amare giving up what reportedly we rumored to give up, we’re guaranteeing the rest of this season and all of next season to be the Golden State Warriors of the Eastern Conference. In short, the Washington Wizards redux.
I’m thrilled.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
they can make other moves
I swear, it’s possible.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
This is one of the worst posts I've ever seen.
Do you really think that by trading for Amare, that’s all that Paxson can possibly do? Are you that dense lately?
Washington Wizards redux? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaa
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
McGraw is pwning right now.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Feb 10, 2009 12:24 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Its not hard considering his competition.
by JeffD on Feb 10, 2009 9:42 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, now that Mariotti is out of town
The competition os more abysmal than usual.
If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.
by Chi 'Till I Die on Feb 10, 2009 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
was Mariotti getting scoops?
(besides of the ice cream variety)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
No, I don't know that he was
But he was the writer that (unfortunately) defined our city with all his exposure on ESPN and such. I was trying to be sarcastic and failed miserably.
If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.
by Chi 'Till I Die on Feb 10, 2009 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
God forbid the Bulls frontcourt be "crippled"
Hey, guess what? It’s already crippled! The Bulls frontcourt has been shit for the entire season. Now, because Tyrus and Noah had a few good games, we’re going to refuse to give up both of them? I like them, but you’re goddamn right they’re expendable for Amare Stoudemire.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
by Big D on Feb 10, 2009 12:28 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
I'm with this too
they need an interior defender after an Amare trade, but they need one now anyway. I’d guess it’s easier to get Amare and then some big oaf than it is to get the oaf and then hope Amare’s (or someone at that level) is available again.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 9:28 AM CST up reply actions
exactly
why are people acting as if the front line has been playing perfect? Why are people acting like we can’t acquire a big man in the offseason? We can fill out the roster with talented scrubs. Getting an all-star big man doesn’t happen every day. It hasn’t happened to the bulls in 10 years.
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 10, 2009 9:41 AM CST up reply actions
I don't see the need to get a big oaf
Amare is 6’10 and 250. If anything he projects to lose his athleticism to some degree. Down the road, I think he’ll be big enough to be our big oaf.
amare is 26 years old
you sign him to a 5 year deal and you have him until he is 31. He will still be playing at a high level for the length of his contract and will be at or near the end of his peak by the end. You keep talking as if Amare is 40 years old. Barring injury, he will likely be the same player at the end of his contract at the beginning. The Bulls would need a defensive presence to match with Amare if they obtain him.
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 10, 2009 9:57 AM CST up reply actions
Age is only half the story
How many NBA years on are those legs?
Meet Tracey McGrady. Meet Jermaine O’Neal. We’re both guaranteed to miss about half the games you pay us to play.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
i heard that amare stoudemire has missed 3 games in 3 1/2 years
I’ve had enough of the internet doctor’s analysis. The guy has been healthy. He is 26. He has no more years on his legs than Garnett or Kobe. He has made a full recovery; there is no evidence of reoccurring injury. How long are the Bulls going to suffer in mediocrity before they take a chance? Who is this perfectly healthy alternative you see?
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 10, 2009 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
hmm
O’Neal games played age 21-25: 77 per season
O’Neal games played age 26-29: 51.5 per season
McGrady games played age 20-24: 74.8 per season
McGrady games played age 25-28: 65.5 per season
The alternative: don’t roll the dice on a player that holds all the power on your Summer of 2010 options while your in the midst of developing your Point God of the future.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
wasn't one of the whole points of 2010
signing Amare as a free agent?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
Was it?
Not for me. There are 5 players in front of him I’d pursue before Amare based on our needs.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
I'm itching with anticiptation...
kidding, don’t tell me.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 11:09 AM CST up reply actions
I gotta see this list
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
list
Lebron
Bosh
Wade
Joe Johnson
Pau Gasol
Based on OUR needs.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
not to mention there's
0 chance we get LeBron and a similar miniscule chance of getting Bosh
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
And I think
very little chance we get the soon to be champion Gasol. He’s a perfect fit in the triangle.
Yeah, he'll be there forever
NBAO is on crack today
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
new plan
wait for LeBron. Then we don’t have to match up with him? Until then (or if it never happens), fold the franchise.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
and your powers of correlation are outstanding.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
Great, sit back and wait for the perfect player to come around
Then, when LeBron and Bosh are playing elsewhere (I assume Wade’s injury history keeps him out of their company in your book) the team can just wait for the next crop. You have to take on risk sometimes to get value. In this case, the Bulls won’t be giving up much to get a player of Amare’s caliber and the risk is worth it.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
Wade' shoulder?
meh.
McGrady’s back? Yeah.
O’Neals knees? Yeah.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 11:00 AM CST up reply actions
"holds all the power"
How does Amare “hold all the power?” You either sign him or you don’t. The Bulls have the power to make him the highest paid or to sign and trade him. He is still a piece that can be moved for prospects even if he doesn’t resign because few teams are going to have the cap space to sign Amare out right. If you lose him, so what. Gooden, Simmons and Thabo are all easily replaceable. I think Tyrus will be a good player, but he isn’t guaranteed to be great or anything. I don’t see the big loss.
Again, what the hell does McGrady and O’Neal have to do with Amare. Is he not a different person? You didn’t even group them in similar age groups. Just because those two guys struggled with injury doesn’t mean Amare will.
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 10, 2009 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
I took Oneal's and Mcgrady's seasons logging starter minutes
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
The good thing about those players in decline.
They have each been traded…so there is always another sucker ready to roll the dice…See O’Neal, Shaq.
If Amare is a chump in three years, someone will gladly take him off our hands…
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 10, 2009 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
Which is why this deal makes so much sense
If Amare doesn’t fit, it wastes 3 years that would have been supposedly average anyways. Rose is still only 23-24 years old and about to enter his prime. Reload the franchise with more talent and wait to get lucky.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 10, 2009 2:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Amar'e
Also came back very quickly from 2 horrible bball surgeries and got back to his old self very quickly (by mid season the following year).
A 23 year old TMAC under those same circumstances would have retired by 25.
O’Neal too hasn’t been as motivated to play as he could have been and has had knee injuries and shoulder injuries lingering even when he was 22-23….
Amar’e seems to be back from those injuries, and his incredible work ethic was oft-discussed when he made that dramatic turnaround.
you need two, no?
Especially in the immediate future, with Noah and Amare as the team’s bigs.
Aaron Gray doesn’t count.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 9:57 AM CST up reply actions
Sure, but I'm not sure a big slow guy is the best fit as your other starter
Basically for all the reasons I’d prefer to keep Tyrus rather than Noah.
I think I prefer the Amare/Marion/Diaw style lineup to the Shaq/Amare style lineup, just as abstract propositions.
I think I have my favorite reason why to move Tyrus instead of Noah for Amare
Basically, Tyrus wants to become an offensive force (and he has reason to believe he can), having him make some bonehead plays on offense keeps him interested in the other areas of the game. If Amare comes, there goes Tyrus’ shots. I don’t think Thomas regroups and becomes a super complementary player.
Whereas I don’t think Noah minds being the garbageman of the team.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 10:55 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
At the end of the day...
That’s what you gotta love about Noah. Factor in all the talent in the world, but a guy that wants to do the little things is a guy that will fit into any system.
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 10, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
it could be mental incapacity
as much as self-realization :-D
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
Good point
Championship teams have atleast 2 stars and the rest role players (great scrores,great defensive players,etc.)
There's talk of Chandler with NO
Maybe we can pull of a Kirk for Tyson deal (Paul-Kirk-Peja-West-Armstrong is a nice mix of O and D, and add in Posey, etc off the bench might not be too shabby as it seems NO has a Kirk interest from where I was reading…..
If Tyson's dealt, it's for cap relief, not Captain Kirk
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
We'll see
NO wants defense and wants someone who will play (not Tyson).
They’d be able to play Kirk in the off guard and semi pg (when Paul’s out), and Kirk will be more effective with an inside presence (West).
We’ll see.
NO has a terrible front court once you get past West/Chandler
Why would they then deal Chandler for a player like Kirk who’s a big question mark on being able to fill what they need in the back court? If they actually feel they can compete for a title this year, they need Chandler or at least one more quality big coming in return for him. Chances are, they see they won’t compete with LA and SA and need to start saving money.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
It's
Strange that they’ve put Tyson on the block, but they have and I’ve seen interest between them and us with Kirk, and a repor that Tyson might be comign back.
Maybe there’s more to it or they have something else up their sleeves….
Tyson Chandler
is NOH’s nearest expiring huge contract. He’s effective for them, but if they’re trying to trade an effective player with a reasonable salary that expires in two years, what does that tell you?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
their owners are cheap weasels?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
or it could mean that NOH could be going after Bosh
playing with Chris Paul would be a huge draw
by KentuckyBullsFan on Feb 10, 2009 2:01 PM CST up reply actions
even with Chandler's money gone
between Paul+West+Peja+Posey+MoPete they’re effectively capped out in 2010.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 2:04 PM CST up reply actions
I know what it says
We’ve had the eggshells that are Tyson on our team. But when healthy he can be effective and if the reports that they’re interested in Kirk are true and are discussing Tyson, he’s not a bad backup plan or compliment to have next to Amare.
if Pax is interested in Tyson that says A LOT more than NOH trading him, since Chandler played like a nervous nellie his last year here.
And yes I wanted to use the phrase nervous nellie for no reason at all.
Where are these reports they're interested in Kirk?
All I’ve seen is they want to deal Tyson for expiring contracts. If they were interested in Kirk, they likely wouldn’t do it w/out giving up one of their own long term deals.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
Dammit
I’m swamped W/WORK (shouldn’t be here, but these damn trade rumours are too enticing) but was looking I know I read this somewhere today in a Kirk and x for Chandler and Mike James swap….
mike james is on the wiz
and is rumored to be coming here in a hughes for etan thomas and james swap.
Damn
That’s why I couldn’t find it.
Must have had my reports mixed up then.
Damn my bad, I know I saw Kirk’s name and saw Chandler and must have had that mixed up…
Sorry
trade rumor overload
happens often to me around this time of year as well.
I think
almost all our guys play like nervous nellies for us.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 2:17 PM CST up reply actions
Rose will have more assists and be more free because.....
the defensive focus will be shifted to Stoudemire. Rose will run free just like Penny, Wade and Kobe did with Shaq.
Rose cannot be guarded one on one and he should feast on whoever in guarding him.
r
u
x
i ted?
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
Hell yes!
I have been waiting a long time for this. In the Jordan Era my friends hated me. Some of them were Knicks fans. I had so much fun during those days.
I want the Bulls to return to their rightful place.
Wow...
Those are some lofty expectations my friend. I want Amare to come to Chicago just as much you I’m sure, but no way are we beating Cleveland or Boston on a regular basis with that team.
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 10, 2009 1:26 AM CST up reply actions
I was thinking the same thing earlier today
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Or change it again
Random question is it an unwritten rule that nobody will wear 45 again?
Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Feb 10, 2009 12:52 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed
retire 23 and 45 like 41 is retired by all mlb teams.
Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Feb 10, 2009 1:01 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, it seemed nobody was going to catch that
my bad
Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Feb 10, 2009 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
You might not have noticed but....
somebody on the Bulls team currently wears #1. I can’t remember who but I seem to remember somehthing like pg, #1 pick, and future of the franchise though.
Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Feb 10, 2009 1:00 AM CST up reply actions
I think he replied to the wrong post
Think he was trying to say #1 will be retired by the Bulls someday for Rose
Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Feb 10, 2009 1:07 AM CST up reply actions
A bit early.
But I was ready to retire 22 when Jay Williams became a Bull. A lot of things can happen.
I agree that Stoudamire probably won't be traded till after the all star break
But it’s kinda funny that the only two players representing the Suns at the game (in Phoenix) are two guys that might be gone days right after the game
im not sold on amare
nash made amare great. dantoni made nash great. bosh id be sold on but not amare. he has yet to show that on his own he is a dominating force night in and night out
He's doing pretty good alongside Shaq
The same Shaq that they constantly feed down low.
Imagine how well he would do if they fed him all those passes that were being thrown into Shaq?
And Bosh is only doing a tad bit better on the offensive end (Being their number 1 option too)
shaq has a great post game
as old as he is his post moves are still there for him to go to. amare doesn’t have those moves yet bosh plays much more of an all around game compared to amare
i see this being our version of the iverson to nuggest trade
desperate for a change they jump on a player with lockerroom issues with talent and it works well and is nice and flashy for a while but after a season the real effect will begin to take place and we’ll see our traded players working out well for other teams while we get screwed with more failure
Fantasy Trade right here!
probably didnt need the exclamation point but…..
Bulls look like this
Rose/Hinrich
Gordon/Hinrich
Deng/Carney
Amare/Noah
Miller/Noah/
Collins gives us the money needed to sign bg with (i think….). I dont think amare would opt out in 2010, but if he does…his contract plus millers should give us enough “incentive” to maybe get bosh? At the very least, we would be pretty competetive, plus i think all fanbases would be happy, except maybe noch fans and Hughes’ mother. We’d all miss tyrus and thabo, but maybe plus .500 victories per season would help wipe the tears away…..
yea i know….its a long shot… but ….what if huh?
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
hughes has to be gone at some point
and miller is at the very least a solid veteran who expires in 2010…..better than gray i would suppose….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Wow, "Fantasy Trade" indeed.
What, you couldn’t work out a scenario with a 5th team that had LeBron going to the Bulls for Aaron Gray and a half-eaten package of Derek Rose’s sour gummy worms?
yea they wouldnt let me add a 5th team
or dereks sour gummy worms or else i was gonna do just that :)
actually the pheonix idea is from above. The brad miller idea is from earlier in the season (larry hughes has to be gone, and it wouldnt hurt us to have another center, even if he is possibly slower than gray) and the nocioni trade is pure speculation on my part (with al jefferson out for the rest of the year the twolves could use a pf/sf to play alongside love. Carney is good backup thats also cheap and expiring, and collins is pointless but is good cap filler and is expiring, we can throw them another 1st rounder).
The trade can be done seperately but i put them all together just so i dont have to copy and paste 3 different links plus it shows what the roster would have lost and gained.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Amare is a very attractive booby trap
There’s a reason that Duncan has the rings, and players like Amare do not. Talent isn’t the only ingredient in a champ. Amare’s talent is good enough to garner a max contract that will poison cap for any team that signs him…while his “I’m the main man tude” undercuts the necessary chemistry of champion teams. And while some are dreaming that one could just let Amare walk for nothing when his option is exercised….that’s the kind of move the Clippers make…letting talent walk for nothing. It doesn’t build a team.
The irony for Pax is that having the “courage” to pull the trigger on Amare trade is exactly the wrong move for him to make at this point. Short term hurrahs will result, like with Big Ben who was going to put Bull’s into conference finals, until it became clear later that the whole thing was a gigantic screwup of a signing.
Cap is still screwed up, and we don’t know all that it really cost team in terms of “might have been” signings or trades. It did contribute to Chandler dump, and Skiles crash and burn that delayed development and signings of certain key players. And hiring of newbie coach VDN. Getting the wrong guy signed for huge $$$ can truly crush team for years.
Gotta find that player that has talent AND leadership if he’s going to get max $$$. If only there was a team out there stupid enough to put a player like Bosh on the market… in the meantime, there’s some potential medium sized trade fixes available. And if T2 has to be traded, make sure what Bulls get back is exactly the player they need and can invest in.
As much as the team needs trade activity, and as seductive as Amare’s talent is, this would be a major mistake. The word for Pax: keep looking, keep talking, keep working, but don’t buy into Amare as Bull’s savior.
wait for Tim Duncan then?
I think the player you’re looking for is Derrick Rose.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 9:31 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I have had some of the same thoughts, but I think you're wrong.
(1) I do think that Pax makes the deal if at all possible, and maybe because he feels undue pressure to do something rather than the best thing. After getting flak for not making deals before (although I still maintain he did the best he could and it was the other GM who ruined the deal), he’s not going to want his perceived passivity to be his downfall.
(2) Related to that, I think you can make a justifiable case that any big shake-up is potentially worth it considering the malaise the team has been in for the past two years. Maybe it’s a rationalization, but it makes sense.
(3) A trade for Amare may or may not end up being the move that puts us in contention, but it is highly unlikely it turns into a “disaster.” To compare it to the Ben Wallace deal is off-point. Big Ben was/is OLD. The downside with him was always pretty high. Even if Amare is no better for us than his is for Phoenix right now, he’s still a productive team member, and if we don’t think it works, we don’t resign him in 2010 — low risk. However, the upside potential is huge (again, different than Big Ben, who was a known quantity). It’s very possible Amare gets rejuvenated in a new place, being with a team that went to great lengths to get him. For all the talk about friction down in AZ, Amare seems like a genuinely good dude who is simply very confident about his abilities (ahem, Kobe is the same way, e.g.) and is frustrated with his role. All the players on the team like him. I doubt he could ever be the locker room disease that the career-long moody guy Ben Wallace was. He’ll have something to prove, and he’ll have an exciting new venue in which to do it.
Ultimately, this is exactly the type of risk that a GM should be willing to make. If we can give up nothing but young prospects to get a potentially franchise big man, we do it. No trade is ever guaranteed safe, but neither is signing Tyrus to an extension when he’s due (might never pan out), nor is letting Rose develop in a situation without any positive energy.
by arjoseph on Feb 10, 2009 10:16 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed on point (3)
there’s a way higher floor for this move than what happened with Wallace.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 10:37 AM CST up reply actions
Well said arjoseph...
Also, Amare has good size, where as Big Ben, wasn’t that Big.
Trade for Amare. Keep Deng and Rose. Figure out the rest later.
not that big
ever seen amare guarding d howard?
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
Who guards Dwight Howard well?
Is that guy available?
More importantly, Noah couldn’t do shit. He couldn’t guard Yao or Howard with a shotgun.
I’ll take my chances with Amare at Center until something better comes along, and then put Amare at the 4.
Trade for Amare. Keep Deng and Rose. Figure out the rest later.
He's a lot bigger than Big Ben...
That’s what I’m saying.
Trade for Amare. Keep Deng and Rose. Figure out the rest later.
plus a first round pick from the Bulls…Do you Think they would do it?
http://img.coxnewsweb.com/B/07/07/09/image_2109077.jpg
Since there isn't an unRec button consider this an Unrec.
If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.
by Chi 'Till I Die on Feb 10, 2009 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
There's a flag...
But yeah, flag means inappropriate right?
We need a “stupid” button.
Trade for Amare. Keep Deng and Rose. Figure out the rest later.
I like that trade, buts its conservative
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 10, 2009 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Awesome reply.
If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.
by Chi 'Till I Die on Feb 10, 2009 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
Why don't we just send Benny the Bull down w/ them
for whoever their mascot is?
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Feb 10, 2009 3:46 PM CST up reply actions
If we can get the dunking gorilla
it’s a no-brainer.
by Frank the Tank on Feb 10, 2009 4:13 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know...
On one hand, sure the Dunking Gorilla is one of the best mascots we’ve seen in years… and sure, we have been below average at his position since we traded away Elton Brand, but, I just think that Benny the Bull has so much POTENTIAL to be a great mascot. And if Phoenix is willing to send us the Dunking Gorilla, it must be because he is a locker room cancer and a jerkbag. So then I dont want him on my team, I would rather keep Benny the Bull because he has shown glimpses over the last few weeks that he’s is starting to understand what being and NBA mascot is all about.
Also, the Dunking Gorilla is so good, he would want a max level mascot contract, and I would rather keep Benny the Bull, because he will probably be cheaper and might not leave us in 2010.
Trade for Amare. Keep Deng and Rose. Figure out the rest later.
ROSE FOR THE DUNKING GORILLA GET IT DONE PAX
larry has that system down to a science. Especially with the way the economy is….big wigs like larry coming in dressed in their mink coats and 24k gold cigarrete holders with pockets lined with coke make for a large draw during shift changes.
by BobbySouthSide on Dec 9, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
On one hand, I don't want Stoudemire.
He’s good, but I don’t think he’s that good. He has a lot of significant holes for a “superstar” big man.
OTOH, they’re giving up junk and one player that, while he has true promise, is still a way away from reaching it. Plus, if there’s one team that I would trust less to deal with Thomas and develop him further would be Phoenix, so it would never look like a bad deal.
I also find it interesting that Phoenix is, somewhat, more interested in Thomas than Beasley.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
From what I can gather tyger (reading some of this off BSoS)
Is that the Suns don’t want Marion which is why they nixed the deal.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
Gah...
I agree with you…
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
I wouldn't be worried about how Thomas does somewhere else
I hope he becomes great.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 9:33 AM CST up reply actions
Are you going to stalk the Suns's SBN site ala Sue to talk up the greatness of Tyrus?
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
we'll just have to wait and see.
I guess we disagree. it happens. hee.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 9:36 AM CST up reply actions
Why the confusion?
Tyrus Thomas is better than Michael Beasley.
Beasley is going to be Chris Bosh 2.0 but smaller and far less effective unless he finds some inner Charles Barkley and turns himself into a 6’7" beast in the paint.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 9:33 AM CST up reply actions
so, not really like Chris Bosh
i don’t think it’s as much confusion for ‘us’, but considering the national perspective…
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 9:37 AM CST up reply actions
yea
that .17 difference in PER between the 3rd year starter and the rookie playing third fiddle to Dwayne Wade proves it!
Would you trade Tyrus for Beasley?
larry has that system down to a science. Especially with the way the economy is….big wigs like larry coming in dressed in their mink coats and 24k gold cigarrete holders with pockets lined with coke make for a large draw during shift changes.
by BobbySouthSide on Dec 9, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No.
If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.
by Chi 'Till I Die on Feb 10, 2009 6:48 PM CST up reply actions
I had a feeling somebody was going to ask this
and the answer is NO
Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Feb 11, 2009 5:51 AM CST up reply actions
Stoudemire could be a bust
Trading for Amare has “Ben Wallace” written all over it.
Smacks of insecurity and uncertainty on Paxson's part.
Unless it turns out to be a great deal.
Funny thing is, this weekend I was wondering if, in total impact, if Stoudemire was any better than Gasol. I say he’s not even as good. I’d trade this package in a heartbeat for Gasol. I’m wary (although not really too hesitant) in doing it for Stoudemire.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
Why does the Gasol (and, to a lesser extent, KG) trade keep getting brought up?
It’s obvious Memphis wasn’t looking for the best trade, they were looking for a straight salary dump, and we weren’t the best trading partner for that purpose. Pax didn’t have a chance. He offered way more than they got from LA. I don’t think there are any lessons to be learned except that the Memphis management screwed the fans because the owner wanted more money.
A bust
How in the world would amare be a ben wallace type bust. Wallace was old and always had sucked on offense. If you were trading for someone like Brand, I would be worried but Amare is 26 and isnt going to stop putting up big offensive numbers anytime in the next 4-6 years unless he has some reoccuring knee injury.
by Sambossanova on Feb 10, 2009 9:22 AM CST up reply actions
Trade Noah
I’m sorry but Noah isnt good enough to be the deal breaker on this. Ideally though, we wouldn’t have to give up our first round pick if we include Noah, and we could pick up someone like Thabeet, Mullens, Lawal, Hill or Monroe (wishful thinking). We’d be terrible on defense this season but that’s fine, lose a lot of games but let Amare and Rose get acquainted and add a lottery pick to go along with the core of Amare, Rose and Deng.
If we do have to give up our pick along with Noah and Thomas, we’d still have our mid level exception, maybe Reinsdorf would be willing to go over the luxury cap to resign Gordon and also spring for a big with the midlevel like Varejao, Pachulia, Wilcox, maybe even Rasheed?
Whatever happens, its incredibely hard to get a guy like Amare, its not hard to get a guy like Noah, we could even maybe get lucky with a second round pick and find an active defensive big man. That’s all we need.
If it's Noah or a draft pick, it's Noah in a landslide.
Getting Stoudemire makes them better this year and almost certainly keeps them out of the Top-10/14. And they won’t be getting anyone near as good as what Noah will be over the next couple of years. And that’s important because you want to be good enough to get Stoudemire to stay.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
the most money
is what will get Stoudemire to stay. Whether the Bulls will go over the luxury tax to give him a max contract is going to be the question whether or not we have Noah.
Meanwhile, imagine if we can’t get Stoudemire because Paxson knows Reinsdorf won’t spring to extend him with a max deal. That would prove once again why you don’t sign guys to bloated deals like Deng even if you risk losing them for nothing.
Well, it proves more that you don't sign marginal role players to contracts like Noc's.
And that sometimes the best laid plans (locking up Hinrich for what seemed like a value) don’t go the way you expect (landing a franchise PG and making Hinrich’s once-reasonable contract a hindrance).
If I'm the Bulls and I really want to do this deal, We darn well ought to be picking up some good players elsewhere
Like, if we include Noah and Thomas, I’d be really pressing to include a Larry Hughes for J-Rich swap in the deal. Which the Suns might be ammenable to anyway. Perhaps that’s one way to go. If you’ve got Amare in the bag, you say screw 2010 and push for other useful assets now.
If we held back Simmons in an Amare trade, I’d bet we could turn around and move Kirk, Simmons and a minimum salary guy for AK-47.
Now that’s what I call a serious team with ambitions of getting somewhere. I highly doubt Reinsdorf would pay for it, however.
by Sports2 on Feb 10, 2009 7:40 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
agreed that you can officially screw 2010
so what big men would be available though? AK…meh. Unless the Bulls are REALLY going to run.
But it would put the Bulls in a spot where they could hopefully unload some other pieces for some team’s salary dump (who can play a bit too).
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 9:35 AM CST up reply actions
If the Bulls do this, then Hughes' contract becomes very valuable to the Bulls.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 10, 2009 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
heck, he may get to play again :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 9:37 AM CST up reply actions
I still have doubts
Any player of real substance could probably fetch more than Hughes in a straight up trade.
I mean, if you want to unload JRich or Kaman or Carter, do you really think Hughes is the absolute best you can do?
No, but combined w/ other parts...
…if they’re able to keep Noah, Hughes plus Noah a year from now might be enough to get someone like one of those guys.
Although, as previously maintained, there will be more teams more solidly NOT in the 2010 sweepstakes so more competing, so still nothing hughely valuable.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
other post-2010 salary big men possibilities (plausibilities?)
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-player-salaries/year/2010/
Kirilenko
Dalembert
Kaman
T-Murph (!)
Dampier (partially guaranteed)
Gadzuric
Mohammed
Collison
Diop
I was trying to get players who could possibly be had for a strict salary dump. Or are somewhat good fits. I don’t think Kenyon Martin is a good fit, nor think Nene or Przybilla is available. (for instance)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 1:45 PM CST up reply actions
No D.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
Good rebounder though
If we’re trading Nocioni (which very well might do it, since it shaves $2M for the Pacers immediately and even more next year) for Noc, we’re replacing a 6’7" 220lb PF with a 6’11" 250lb PF/C who can still shoot the 3 ball, but who can block shots and is one of the better rebounders in the league. Score!
that's true
Murphy’s back on the list!
I suppose I should widen my range to any productive big, if we’re talking about exchanging spare parts. Asking for a specific skillset is a bit much. However Gooden has a specific skillset and I can’t stand having him around.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 2:01 PM CST up reply actions
Nene, the white whale...
I think he’s awesome and would be a great player enxt to Stoudemire. I’d trade Deng for him and look for a SG and wing player. too bad Denver has, an um… SF. He’s like a Noah plus 40 pounds and 3 years.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
I love Nene too
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
Me three.
Amare/Nene is a dream frontcourt. Too bad they have Melo and absolutely no need for a guy like Deng.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Play Melo at the 4 or the 2
4 is better the way Team USA had played him.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 2:01 PM CST up reply actions
This is the NBA, though, not international ball.
Melo guarding 4s in the NBA is asking for disaster. He’d foul like crazy.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
and the 2???? REALLY?!?!!
WHAT.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Sam Smith approves the idea, however :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 2:04 PM CST up reply actions
Remember when he suggested Noc at the 2 this year?
Maybe NBA is actually Sam Smith :-p
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Noc
fits the Smith requirement: tall(er).
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 2:18 PM CST up reply actions
What about this?
http://www.blogabull.com/2009/2/9/754565/rumorpress-amare-update#12108742
Jrich can’t be traded as a part of a multiplayer deal in the same season?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 9:36 AM CST up reply actions
that's true.
straight up for Hughes works though. If the Suns want to throw in some filler they can use the Bulls trade exception.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 9:39 AM CST up reply actions
Kerr wouldn't be doing his job
if I just accepted the deal without Noah. He’s trading a top-10 player in the NBA for expirings, a pick, and a project with upside. He absolutely needs to “hold the Bulls ransom” for as much as he can. That means waiting to the deadline. Likewise, the Bulls absolutely need to wait to the deadline and stay firm with what they’ve offered.
Kerr will crack. Has to.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Feb 10, 2009 7:45 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I will say what I think will happen:
the Bulls will end up adding Asik to the deal at the deadline. He comes to the NBA in the same year Shaq leaves it. Young, literally costs nothing for two years, an asset with talent, defense-minded. Then the Bulls sign one of those versatile MLE bigs in free agency.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
Very interesting.
Asik could be quite the chip in this economy: an asset that costs nothing. A nice sweetener. Good thinking.
Let's throw him in instead of TT!
Good times.
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
No, he really doesn't
Everything I’ve seen suggests the desire for the Suns to trade is driven as much by finance as by talent. A team that can shave $4.5M off this year’s cap salary for them is going to get them under the luxury tax and create something like a $10M financial turnaround for them.
Several other teams, like Detroit and Golden State, are in position to offer that kind of relief. I think that has lots of value to the Suns.
Unless the Bulls suddenly change their tax stance, which I don’t forsee, we don’t.
Isn't that at least mildly repudiated by the rumor that they want Noah thrown in?
Besides, the Bulls have guys on one-year deals that make less than Thabo.
Thomas, Gooden, Gray and Ruffin (and a pick) for Stoudemire saves them $2.6 million right now. Flipping Gooden then, to maybe a team that wouldn’t mind him for two months for a useless bench guy making $5.5 saves another $1.6, putting them reeeeal close.
I dont know. I think it’s motivated by money, too and probably primarily, but they still want to get good players. Who knows? Sarver and Kerr I suppose.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
I don't see how anything can be repudiated by a rumor :)
At this point it’s pretty much all rumor.
If that deal saves the Suns $2.6M, it puts the Bulls what, about $2.2M over the LT. I don’t see it happening, but I suppose I’ve been surprised before.
UPDATE
A source shot down one report that the Bulls and Miami Heat were the front-runners to land Stoudemire, saying the two teams that have offered the most for the All-Star forward have yet to be publicly identified.
Ouch.
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
(playing Crazy Trade Psychic) How about Rasheed Wallace for Amare?
Detroit gets younger, Phoenix becomes a slower defensive team that saves Nash’s legs for a few more years
by KentuckyBullsFan on Feb 10, 2009 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
Phoenix would then have Nash,JRich,Shaq, Rasheed, & Grant Hill!
That’s a lineup a team can go to war with.
by KentuckyBullsFan on Feb 10, 2009 1:54 PM CST up reply actions
A short short war
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 1:59 PM CST up reply actions
that lineup does have an expiration date, either in 2009 or 2010
by KentuckyBullsFan on Feb 10, 2009 2:03 PM CST up reply actions
Or Phoenix could trade Amare for David Lee
..with the expiring contract being former Phoenix Sun STARBURY!
by KentuckyBullsFan on Feb 10, 2009 2:28 PM CST up reply actions
David Lee
will have to be extended this Summer or deferred to Summer of 2010 as an unrestricted FA with a no trade clause.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 2:38 PM CST up reply actions
I'm kind of worried about a
Sheed + Stuckey + draft pick type of deal
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Woops...
I meant Sheed + Amir Johnson + draft pick
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
i was gonna say
there’s no way detroit’s moving stuckey.
i was kind of worried about detroit because rasheed provides what they want (an expiring deal, yet, he can still play and is a good defender), but our youngster (tyrus) is a lot better than amir and our draft pick will likely be better too. plus, we can throw in thabo too!
would maxiell be more enticing to phx than amir?
But Amare is can't miss
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 3:18 PM CST up reply actions
Remember the Bulls
have the 5.2 Mil trade exception. Kaman is now available. If the Bulls can somehow get Amare and Chris Kaman we would be instant contenders with the following.
Rose
Gordon
Deng
Stoudmire
Kaman
Dont even joke about something like that!!
to imagine….a REAL Front Court……i didnt think such a thing existed.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
mere details!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 9:40 AM CST up reply actions
Sorry, I meant to
reply to the comment regarding going into the luxury tax if we got Amare. The Kaman statement was separate statement.
Hoopshype/NBA.com
“And even though the Clippers have specifically denied it to me, I keep hearing they’re still determined to repatriate Chris Kaman, figuring they can go 10-40 just as well without him as with his remaining three years and $33.9 million”.
Trying to work and play at the same time.
What makes you think Kaman is available?
I realize the glut of big men in Clipperland, But everything I’ve read tells me that MDSR wants to wait a year before trading any of them, especially with the injury issues they’ve had.
Trade for Amare. Keep Deng and Rose. Figure out the rest later.
never mind,
I just saw the quote, I would love it if Kaman was available…
honestly, Rose, Gordon?, Deng, Amare, Kaman… sounds like a team that will compete for the next five years.
Trade for Amare. Keep Deng and Rose. Figure out the rest later.
In league news...
Amare & Co. gave up 24 points to Thad Young and Speights in the first half yesterday and Amare looked pretty disinterested
Amare is staying professional
He knows he’s getting dealt.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 9:37 AM CST up reply actions
Doesn't Amare himself have to agree to a trade?
I’m pretty sure he does. He’d have to have an assurance from whatever GM on the team he’s being traded to that he’ll receive a full max extension before agreeing to the deal I’d assume.
I think it’d be fine if we traded for him…sorta the end of the ‘gritty’ Bulls and that’s alright if they become a better team, but the second he puts a jersey on Ben Gordon has to finally realize that his days as a Bull are soon over.
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
No
Amare does have a player option to opt out of his 2010-11 contract year so he can become an unrestricted FA after the 09-10 season. So we should consider what Amare could do to us if he decides to stay on his contract.
I’d weight the odds that Amare opts out of his contract after 09-10 at 75%. He’ll have the most destination options that Summer.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 9:39 AM CST up reply actions
You only get veto power if you've got a no-trade clause or you're on a QO.
Amare is neither. He goes where he’s shipped.
Im sure he has been consulted tho
Teams will want to know that he’d be interested in signing their long term before they trade for him. Probably almost as effective as a veto
Amare isnt gonna lead us to the promised land
he isnt duncan or garnett. He isnt gonna step on a team and start leading he just isnt that type of player. Amare isnt like lebron, dwade, or kobe. He is a great player but a complimentary player. He is a great offensive talent without any doubt, and a great inside presence. If we are expecting amare to make us contenders immediately, then we probably are dreaming, amare cant do that, hes not that kind of player. But thats not why we should be trading for him.
Its said on this blog all the time, we already have “the man” of this team, this is d. roses team no doubt. Hes gonna lead, and this season has shown that he is willing to take that role. D. rose needs help, he needs help from a superstar, he needs someone who can compliment him, who can run with him, who can help open up that lane for rose to drive, or take the offensive pressure off of him. How is that NOT Amare. Amare is 26 years old, 26 YEARS OLD!!!! with only 3 years left on his contract and the ability to opt out in 2010. Even if amares injuries are worse than we thought, its not like we would be stuck with him forever.
Amare gives us a true presence in the post, athletic and post play. He may not be a great defender but at the very least he can offer us a pottential shot blocker that should ward all the jj bareas away. As far as i can tell, i have never seen amare be any kind of cancer or zach randolf like player. At the worst his personality is like hughes, except amare has real all star talent. How do we not trade for that. Gooden is supposed to be gone anyway, thabo is a nice backup but we can probably find another one (like carney from the twolves?) the only real player we lose is Tyrus Thomas, but i feel we get an upgrade (at least for now) at that position. Plus we still have alot of good assets left (kirk, noch, um hughes?) to spring for another center if we have to give noah away.
I say it makes the rebuilding process a lot easier. Rebuild around rose right? You have our post presence, you have our pg. If deng keeps playing at his level you keep him as an 3 or 4 scoring optin that can play solid defense. You would only need a defensive minded center at that point and maybe a defended minded sg that can at least come off the bench and fulfill what thabos role was.
I say you should do this trade and not look back, this isnt anything like the ben wallace trade.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Via Rotoworld - I guess if we get him we should make him a Captain
I’m not a captain so you can’t place too much of the blame on me," Stoudemire said. “It’s not my job to rally the troops and get everybody on board. It’s the captain’s job to do that.” Stoudemire also talked about the possibility of being traded. “I know for sure wherever I go we’re definitely going to be playoff contenders. I bring a lot to the table.”
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Feb 10, 2009 9:29 AM CST up reply actions
Amare will kill us on defense
What’s his only defensive threat? Weak side shot blocking and rebounding. Two areas he’s not very good at either.
He’s not in the the top 50 in defensive rebounding rate, nor offensive rebounding rate.
Amare is ALL OFFENSE and no defense.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 9:44 AM CST up reply actions
Right now our bigs are
Little offense with some defense. Imagine that dallas game without tyrus and amare instead…..i wud bet anything the outcome is different. Besides its probably easier to get some defensive minded big body in the second round of some draft as opposed to landing a fully capable, young, solid, proven all star that is not near his declining age, low post threat. If you are worried about amares legs, its not like we are signing him to a long term contract right now. If in the next two years he deems unworthy he can always be NOT resigned, or simply traded. If he opts out in 2010, well hopefully paxson makes other moves to get rid of contracts like noch and i suppose hinrich (…) so that if amare decides to opt out we have cap space to get something in 2010.
You have observed the nba for pobably more years than i have, you should know better than anyone that an offensive talent like Stat doesnt come around like this very often. We are given a chance now to get rid of some of our assets and get an actual star. Thats a better chance then hoping a guy like tyrus or noah develops into a star. Thats a better chance of hoping we can land bosh. If we dont get bosh in 2010, wed probably settle for amare anyway since i believe he is the next best available big in 2010.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Feb 10, 2009 11:24 AM CST up reply actions
Is Amare healthy? Will his knees turn into Ben Wallace's knees?
Amare was an offensive Godzilla a few seasons back during and right after his contract year, but I haven’t seen him play in a while.
Whatever happens, I would say that the team has been far more entertaining now than 2 weeks ago during.
The season stalled this year because Noah was out of shape, leaving Vinny (in one of his few defenses) to play Gooden/Gray.
But now that the team FINALLY has the starting lineup we all expected (Rose, Gordon,Noah in shape, Tyrus, Deng) the team looks like it has some potential and half-decent chemistry.
Could Amare kill what little chemistry we’ve had in the past?
Remember even talented teams with sucky chemistry can suck (think NY Knicks, Clippers from last 10 years).
…
But FINALLY a post player? With Rose. Hell yeah.
Just don’t give up Noah, or the Bulls will give up 120 points/game.
by KentuckyBullsFan on Feb 10, 2009 10:00 AM CST reply actions
A few seasons back?
How about last season. And its not like he is bad this season, just not as ridiculously dominant as last.
correction...
…“offensive Godzilla less than a year ago”
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
The only way trading for Amare makes since is if you can keep TT as well in the front court
If not I wouldn’t make the deal.
Tyrus is the better defender of our bigs
but i think noah is more willing to stay the hell out of amares way, conserving his already limited energy on the defensive end where i think noah is at his best anyway (he did a great job on dirk). Noah is probably the better man defender while thomas is the better help defender. Noah is also bigger and an offseason of getting bigger might give him the ability to lockdown the post on defense, with amare being the help side defender. Noah has the ability to be like a more passionate Chandler….i think if that ends up being true, then id take that over tyrus thomas.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Feb 10, 2009 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Hoopsworld Morning Update
“It seems some of the waffling revolves around Tyrus Thomas who over the past week has averaged better than 15 points per game, and has a double-double or close to it, in his last 7 games”
Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Feb 10, 2009 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
I was just
offering what my position on the argument was, its not really cut and dry though…who knows how things would work out with or without amare…my thought though is its better to a proven rising all star flaws and all as opposed to hoping the rising potential star you have becomes an all star.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Feb 10, 2009 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
who waffles after a week of games?
Tyrus has been playing like this for a couple months. and per-minute wise, a couple years.
Luckily I’m even more cynical about poopsworld than the Bulls braintrust (I think)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
One thing I keep wondering about...
why isn’t Nash being discussed? If the Suns do trade Amare, he’s outta there in 2010. Why would he resign when he’ll have no Shaq, Hill, or Stat?
If the Bulls could get him – they’ve always like Hinrich – I would have no problem throwing Noah and a 1st rounder into the mix.
Why? Because then you go to Kevin Pritchard effectively holding a championship in your hands. You’ve got Deng and Nash. That’s when it gets interesting…
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
the 'source' says Nash is the only untouchable
that’s why he’s not being discussed.
Asking why the Suns made him untouchable is a different question.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
maybe nash plans on retiring
he really is starting to show his age…maybe he wants to retire in pheonix so the suns are gonna respect that wish….pure speculation….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
by piccolomair on Feb 10, 2009 11:30 AM CST up reply actions
They know he is going to NY in 2010.
On the cheap to be reunited with D’Antoni, live in his home city and play with Lebron and Bosh…
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
ahh.
gotcha. That’s bizarre to me, though – Kerr has to know losing Amare means he’s rebuilding. And I’d be surprised if Nash didn’t want to contend for a championship before he retired.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
Nash is the most popular player in Phoenix Suns history
keeping him is a way to sell tickets and jerseys to fans. He is a 2 time MVP and is revered by Suns fans. I don’t think the casual Phoenix fans would accept Nash being traded.
The Suns, I believe, have only missed the playoffs once in like twenty years. I think they want to rebuild and win at the same time. Basically, I think they believe they can’t win a championship this year, so they want to get younger but remain competitive, basically become a new Portland. By getting expiring contracts and young guys who can play, they remain competitive and same some money. I think that is why the Bulls make so much sense as a trade partner and why they are pushing to have Noah included. If it was just about saving money, they would go to the Pistons or Heat. If it was just about acquiring talent, than they would trade with Golden State. But they want to acquire talent and save money. The Bulls are a good partner for that aim.
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 10, 2009 11:40 AM CST up reply actions
I think
they made him untouchable because of the fans. Behind closed doors it may be another story. They may be listening to any offer. Keeping Nash doesn’t hurt them in the long run either if they want to rebuild because his contract expires in 2010.
hair similarities aside...
noah can play, robin lopez can’t.
Lopez can't get meaningful minutes
with Shaq playing so well as he’s featured in the Porter offense. They play Louis Ahmundson more than they play Lopez right now.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
thank you for proving my point
if louis admundson is getting burn over you, you stink.
of course, as we learned the past couple years, having a bad coach leads to some strange playing time decisions. so maybe i’m oversimplifiying there. either way, from what i saw of lopez in college and earlier this year, i don’t think this guy will ever be much of a player.
much of a player?
I don’t see how Lopez can’t do what Noah does. Robin probably has a more refined offensive game. He’s less expensive as well.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
I do expect that if we give up Noah that we get Lopez back....
And I’m fine with that. I think Noah’s better, but I think Amare & Lopez is hugely better than Tyrus & Noah
Trade for Amare. Keep Deng and Rose. Figure out the rest later.
Krazy Indeed
The k makes it extra special….got this off the suns sbn blogsite
http://www.wdsu.com/offsidesblog/index.html
id be all in for this, i dont know about the other teams though
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Fletcher Mackel
is out of control. I think he has more trade proposals on that page than we’ve ever seen on BAB.
Dude, he is out of control
Has he been infected by the same bug as Simmons? The trade machine is helpful, but doesn’t free you to publish insane/asinine 4 way trades on a whim.
If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.
by Chi 'Till I Die on Feb 10, 2009 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
He says he just found the trade machine
That thing is crack for fans with a big rumor about one of their big players coming across the wires.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 2:00 PM CST up reply actions
Oden available?
Maybe the Blazers trade Oden, and the contract (insurance paid) for Kirk and Noah.
Are Blazers starting to question the chemistry of Oden with the team..
Steriods discovered in chewing tobacco sold between 1920 thru 2001?
man up!
Even for you, that's crazy
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
What?
Um, source? Where are you getting this from? Terrorists could threaten to blow up a city and Pritchard wouldn’t trade Oden.
If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.
by Chi 'Till I Die on Feb 10, 2009 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
I got a rec from a blazers fan
my life is now complete.
If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.
by Chi 'Till I Die on Feb 10, 2009 6:49 PM CST up reply actions
If Greg Oden gets traded for Amare I will buy you season tickets
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 10, 2009 2:52 PM CST up reply actions
Question.
Do you think that the hold up with this trade could be that Drew Gooden is still on the shelf? Because he cannot be traded unless he could pass a physical, right? I am wondering if that is why there is so much talk/leaked talk and no action yet.
If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.
by Chi 'Till I Die on Feb 10, 2009 12:41 PM CST reply actions
maybe
could be the upcoming all-star game too.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
Good call
I didn’t think about the supposed drama that would happen if he was traded to the Bulls and then still (I am guessing) repping PHX in the ASG.
If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.
by Chi 'Till I Die on Feb 10, 2009 1:00 PM CST up reply actions
similar thing happened last year
with the kidd trade. i think it’s more likely that kerr is just holding out til after the all-star break to see if any better offers come in; phoenix really doesn’t have much to lose by holding out on the trade right up til the deadline
Funny that the ASG is
actually in PHX. All the trade proposals are literally coming to Steve this weekend!
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Feb 10, 2009 3:49 PM CST up reply actions
yes?
If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.
by Chi 'Till I Die on Feb 10, 2009 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
ooop i have no idea how to use this correctly...but anyway...
1. Is there anybody else that would rather give up Deng and his 11 million per year disappearing act late in games instead of Tyrus. Especially given that we have Noc who might not be moveable who can finally drop the 10 pounds he put on to play PF? As well as thabo would not have to be included?
With Amare on the court there is a good to great chance Tyrus can play SF the way Marion did 3-4 years ago. Tyrus does not have the 3 point range but his jumper is really coming around. Tyrus ios also one of those guys that wants to be leaned on at the end of games…he is a real difference maker in the making so to speak…which is why pheonix wants him. We endured almost 3 years of Tyrus’ inconsistencies to finally see something. And he has better handles than Deng in the making…better rebounding, blocking shots, defense overall. Tyrus stopped Lebron on like 4 straight possessions against cleveland a few weeks back.
For me…Id much rather move deng, Simmons, Gooden, 2 #1 picks. Id throw in right to Omer and 3 million in cash. Or trade Kirk, deng and Gooden while taking back aged grant Hill to make it fit or use our trade exception if possible. Or deng, Noah, and gooden.
I dont think we are going to be able to move Noc (a much better outside shooter than deng). And With amare in th epost we will need less scoring and more ball movement/facillitating and outside shooting. For me that screams move Deng and keep Tyrus, Noc, and thabo.
So I wonder if John Paxson is still so enamored with deng that he is still “untouchable” like deng was in the Kobe and gasol rumors.
2nd thing?
Best follow up trade?
Is it still Kirk(filler) for pryz(lafrents)…especially if we can trade Noah and deng and keep Tyrus.
To anwser your questions
1. That won’t happen because PHX WANTS TO SHED SALARY! TT is inexpensive compared to Deng. They don’t want another albatross contract considering they already have two.
2. Kirk for Prys alone is a pipe dream. Kirk+ anyone except deng for pryz+RLEC is even crazier.
If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.
by Chi 'Till I Die on Feb 10, 2009 1:03 PM CST up reply actions
I agree with you 100% SD20!!
wouldn’t it be better to give up Deng and that money and still have the room financially to make moves later? Also I’m with you in believing that Tyrus will be the better pro over Deng!
it just makes mroe sense from our angle.
Why give up tyrus who can play SF with Amare and a C like Sheed (UFA)? When we can shed Deng?
Noc is going to be very hard to move…I think. But he is a decent SF that can play when we need outside shooting.
Tyrus can play SF when we need defense and reboiunding…something we will likely need with Amare on the court.
And it is said they want Kirk?
OK give them Kirk…all day long give them Kirk. Give them Deng too. That right there is more than enough for Amare.
They get a Grant Hill replacement and a Nash replacement. Both are starters. They have lopez who looks good.
I’d be more thna willing to through in Noah or Gooden. and take back another contract as filler so long as it isn’t too long.
Deng and Hinrich are who Paxson whould be trying to move.
We have better or as good or almost as good of players already in on the roster in Rose, Thabo, Tyrus, and Noc to play PG and SF.
it's an assumption that the Suns wouldn't want Deng's contract (or any deal of that length)
nice job working in ‘disappearing act’ though, that usually inspires quality conversation
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 3:00 PM CST up reply actions
That has been scientifically epxlained...
Deng was born with an insufficient amount of “Dog” in him.
Fortunately, a physicist and a lawyer sat down with an NBA rule book and deduced that the points he scores in the first three quarters count the same as if he’d scored them in the fourth.
Trade for Amare. Keep Deng and Rose. Figure out the rest later.
ummm...would you let it slode if I said:
“he chooses to ALLOW his teamates to take over the scoring load in the 2nd half and 4th q of games?”
Seriously, though. Take to good teams playing hard. The game will be within 5,6,7 points at some point in the 4th. The best teams are the ones with closers. I mean, you were here during the dynasty years, I assume. This game is won and lost by who plays better defense and then can execute on offense and make plays. Deng’s defense isk decent and he just just score well not make that many plays in th e2nd half or 4th quarter. he will be a grood #2 perhaps or a great #3 but is not a #1. The same can also be said with some clever use of Tyrus, Noc, and Thabo at the 3. All 3 make plays all game long. Tyrus is gorwoing into that role. Noc is not particuylary great at it but he is not afraid of that role either…cough cough. And thabo makes defensive plays late in games when given steady minutes and is on the floor.
Deng – Hinrich make this trade happen…throw in Noah or thabo to sweeten.
Hoopshype Rumors
From here
1. The Warriors are offering Biedrins and Anthony Randolph for Amare.
2. The Bulls are shopping Nocioni hard.
3. The Bulls are shopping Gordon hard, too.
4. Hinrich may be in the Stoudemire offer.
5. The most likely landing spot for Larry Hughes is in Washington in exchange for Etan Thomas and Mike James.
All favorable rumors.
If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.
by Chi 'Till I Die on Feb 10, 2009 1:03 PM CST up reply actions
Aww, I want Anthony Randolph.
Let’s trade them Simmons and Thabo for him. :D
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
Hinrich in the stoudemire offer?
Fantastic!!!!
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Those Hoopshype bastards
Now we’re gonna get all chatty about Kirk in this prospective deal.
But yea, if Kirk’s in it, FANTASTIC!!!
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 2:05 PM CST up reply actions
It looks like that link was actually from a Sun-Times article
and it was 199% speculation, sadly. :-(
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Those Sun-Times bastards
dang.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 2:09 PM CST up reply actions
Biedrins and Randolph
- no cap relief
- lots of guaranteed future money
- will the Warriors ever rebound another missed shot
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 2:06 PM CST up reply actions
Bigmouth
on the local radio sports call-in show here in PHX was all over this also, saying the Bulls’ deal was “a terrible trade and would never happen”. He also values Hinrich and Deng, and calls TT, Noah and Thabo “the Bulls garbage”.
But at least he has inside sources and has been right in the past. This GS deal is supposed to also include Turiaf and perhaps Belinelli. “Some other deal would have to be made to” get the cap relief Sarver’s looking for. This would logically be Barbosa. (Or Shaq?) LB to MEM for their 1st. Amare also could be sent there for Gay and that pick.
Maybe these (or some version of this) are the two “better, yet unreported offers”? (Or the ‘Sheed/DET offer?) His radio station broadcasts the games and Sarver and Kerr have used them for spin and propaganda purposes before. So it’s interesting. While I can understand how Kerr would like Randolf and Biedrins, I don’t see how the Latvian fits with Shaq, as both are under the basket players exclusively. (And as NBAO stated, it really hurts the Warrior rebounding, LOL!) And I wonder about Memphis’ willingness to spend $ on either Amare or Barbosa.
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
Poopsworld strikes again.
Why would the Bulls be shopping Gordon hard when he has a no trade clause? I think they just made that one up…
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
Dammit!
The Biedrins/Randolph combo might have us beat. It’s close.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
Except it doesn't offer the financial flexibility they're supposedly looking for
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
The Warriors have a pretty deep chest of young guys on cheap deals to offer
Take out Biedrins and put in Wright, Turiaf, Azubuike, etc and they can make a nice go of things
I saw your post on that earlier and that'd be a heck of a deal for the Suns
I was just referring to a deal including Biedrins not being appealing for Phoenix
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
Do the Deal
Come on folks. Everybody knows that you do a trade when your players values are high and the trade targets value is low. Does it get any better than this? I see Tyrus’s ceiling as how he was playing for 6 (repeat) 6 games. Who is to say he isn’t going to avg 3 pts, 4 turnovers and 5 rebounds for the next 6? What is the percentage chance that Tyrus every eclipses Amare? Maybe 3% in my estimation. If Pax can’t get this done he is really blowing it.
We are talking about a guy who is 26 and a proven downlow scorer. Our team can play defense and they have proven it in past years. Getting a lot more wins with Amare will help to motivate the team on both ends. With Amare, Deng and Rose you have a championship level roster.
Believe it.
by Jud Buechler on Feb 10, 2009 1:38 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
When have they proven they can play defense?
Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Feb 10, 2009 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
I like the "trade value is low" part
Twelve months ago, could we have traded our entire team for Amare? He’s just 26, and he’s shown a full recovery from microfracture surgery. Jason Kidd had microfracture surgery at age 31, and he’s still playing at a high level at 35. Zach Randolph and Kenyon Martin have held up fine, too.
There’s no reason why Amare is or will be any worse in the next few years than what he’s perceived to be now. I think this is one of those rare situations where a team has negative momentum and a shitty GM, and the result is a bonafide star is being sold for pennies on the dollar. It’s a no-brainer.
It's kind of like the Simmons paradigm
Amare has gone from (possibly) being overrated (mainly due to his shit-tastic D) to underrated due to circumstances in PHX and the way Bulls fans are collectively worshipping Tyrus Thomas out of nowhere.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Not to be a total Debbie Downer here, but
what’s the last truly impressive win the Bulls have had? Here’s the recent wins:
@ New Orleans, minus Paul and Chandler
@ Phoenix, who had everybody, but who is also a #8 seed
@ Sacramento
@ LA Clippers
vs Cleveland, minus three starters (Delonte, Ilgauskas and Ben Wallace)
@ Toronto
vs Washington
vs Sacramento
@ New Jersey
vs Utah minus Boozer…..
The only win we’ve had against a playoff-lock, healthy team was Game #9 vs. the Mavericks. I love Tyrus Thomas as much as the next guy, but despite his inspired play the past 2.5 months, and despite the returns of Deng and Hinrich, we haven’t actually won anything. I know some BaBers think the Bulls are on the verge of breaking out, but I don’t see the evidence to back that up.
Well
Cleveland had won like 8-9 straight and wasn’t really missing 3 starters since West came in and gave his usual full game production in that first quarter.
Plus missing Ben Wallace might be a blessing in disguise with the better than Wallace Varejao and even Hickson/James comign in for spells….
Well said...
Everybody knows that you do a trade when your players values are high and the trade targets value is low. Does it get any better than this?
If at the beginning of last season, Phoenix offered us Amare for Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah, we would have stumbled over ourselves trying to make it happen. But now, because Tyrus raised his value a bit, we are worried. If he didn’t do that, we wouldn’t even be in these talks.
Trade for Amare. Keep Deng and Rose. Figure out the rest later.
Yep. Some people are just ridiculous.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Chad Ford doesn't think we have enough to get it done.
Chris (Chicago): Does John Paxson FINALLY pull the trigger and make a deal for a superstar?
Chad Ford: (1:50 PM ET ) He better. I’m not sure he wants to be known as the guy who, while in desperate need of a big man, passed on everyone from KG, to Pau Gasol, to Amare. With that said, I’m not sure the Bulls have enough to do an Amare deal. Tyrus Thomas is a nice asset. So is Drew Gooden’s expiring contract. They can offer more young players (like Noah or Sefalosha) or draft picks. But from the sounds of things, the Suns may have a better offer. Too bad. A combo of Derrick Rose, Luol Deng and Stoudemire would bring a lot of hope back to fans in Chicago.
Fortunately for all of us, Chad Ford is pretty much a dumbass
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
He doesn't seem to always be on w/ his rumors, but the guy has a Juris Doctorate from Georgetown
“Dumbass” is a little too much
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
Yeah, I mean he's clearly a smart guy
I just meant “dumbass” in the sense that he never seems to provide any good NBA inside info
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
accidental dumbass?
I think he’s just trying to keep the conversation going. You know, “conflict resolution”.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 2:41 PM CST up reply actions
I find it interesting that if this trade was offered in the summer
Most people would have snatched it up in a heartbeat. This isn’t a debate as to whether Amare is the best big man in the league (he’s not). He’s still good enough that you can pair him with Rose and see a marked improvement in the team’s play. Trading for Amare doesn’t mean the Bulls are done building a contender, but it’s a very good start. If you don’t feel strongly that the Bulls are a player for 2010, then how do you not love the potential of getting Stoudemire? Stop thinking like he’s a franchise player and moreso a really damn good cog in the wheel who happens to have a huge ego (and really, he’s not the only guy out there. It shouldn’t be any kind of sticking point.)
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 10, 2009 3:02 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
I'm running out of snark
A 15 million dollar cog?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 3:20 PM CST up reply actions
maybe it's others running out of ways to say
Amare is very good, yet not perfect? I like your plan of getting LeBron in 2010 better.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 3:45 PM CST up reply actions
Not perfect
but nowhere close to what we need defensively from the most important defensive position in the game.
Oh well. But he can score.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 10, 2009 3:50 PM CST up reply actions
you can still have other defenders
even in the frontcourt.
And I say he is close to what they’d need, which is merely OK if he can score like that.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 3:53 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, Bill Simmons
Players other than LeBron James and Chris Paul can make a lot of money and still not be franchise players, it’s true!
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 10, 2009 7:21 PM CST up reply actions
I think the real key here is Deng. Here's a guy making 72 mil a year that even though he's had a nice
stretch of games, to me isn’t a difference maker. I feel Tyrus is and apparently PHX does too. I really don’t feel good about this trade. I feel like it’s being forced somehow. If we trade Noah and TT there is NOTHING in the middle. Why not peddle Hinrich or Deng instead to PHX and take on some of their dead weight to get Amare? If you trade TT and Noah to get him, you’re still going to have to pay to get something in the middle anyway, and you’re going to have to go searching for a 2-guard because you won’t be able to sign Gordon. I say Pax should stand pat on this trade.
by Dils on Feb 10, 2009 3:08 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
We'll probably get Robin Lopez back...
it’s not great. But I’m sick of people acting like we won’t have a center if we include Noah in the deal. Amare can spend time at center, Lopez can play a little, and Gray can play a little. We’ll be fine. Then, when we get an opportunity, we upgrade center.
Jeez. It’s not like having a shortage of awesome centers for the next couple months is going to keep us from winning the championship this year….
Trade for Amare. Keep Deng and Rose. Figure out the rest later.
by kidronmusic on Feb 10, 2009 5:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
lol
72 mil a year
larry has that system down to a science. Especially with the way the economy is….big wigs like larry coming in dressed in their mink coats and 24k gold cigarrete holders with pockets lined with coke make for a large draw during shift changes.
by BobbySouthSide on Dec 9, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Amare
Why do we always think the grass is greener on the neighbours lawn?
Take it form Suns fans:
QUOTE:""Bob (Phoenix, AZ): Ray – Suns fan here. Its called addition by subtraction. Amare is a Drama Queen, has not improved, has fallen in love with his J this year, doesn’t play defense or rebound. I can’t wait until he is gone.
Chad Ford: I think that sort of sums up what I’ve heard from a lot of Suns fans. ""
I particularly stress the ‘a lot of Suns fans’ part. Here’s another Fact: Amare is currently surrounded not only by players more talented than the Bulls would be if we traded for him, they also have several savy veterans – and they can’t keep him in check. And the hope here is that our kids will do that?? Plus – the Suns are not winning! Should that not be a big clue for us that the scores 20/gives up 30 is a very real argument?
A big man who doesn’t rebound or defend. Be careful what you wish for…
Remember
When guys said Gasol was crap?
Also note that Amar’e’s playing 2nd banana in the post to a 36 year old who’s 150 lbs overweight, for no apparent reason other than Kerr is trying to save his ass for burdening that team with $50M on a player who’s not worth more than $25M at most—due to ticket sales for the same time.
They are force feeding Shaq, and Amar’e adds enough pressure to make Shaq more open.
The lack of D crap is a bit much considering Shaq’s a god awful defender (but he’s big). Too slow, and while he never was good, he’s abysmal now.
Nash is getting a slide because he’s getting older, Amar’e’s the young guy who they aren’t using properly.
That team should just nix the Shaq experiment and run run run run run, and use Shaq only against the slowish teams (namely Houston) where he can be of great value.
Running a slow half court game doesn’t help Nash, and Nash’s D is too porous that all of his good O gets lost in translation against the slow teams.
Amare’s great on the break, and with Rose and him running th ecourt, that could be something….
by majoyenrac on Feb 10, 2009 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
First of all, to be fair, Gasol is playing with Kobe and Lamar Odom. Those 2 players alone are as good as anything we have.
I have no doubt that Amare is a good player but if there is nothing else in the middle to go with a guy that doesn’t play defense…This could be a problem,
he was talking about Gasol pre Lakers and how everyone said he was soft and terrible
I also add to his list Webber and Barkley. Two guys who local fan bases were down on who went to different places and led their teams to a lot of success. Who is to say Amare doesn’t mirror there experiences?
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 10, 2009 3:47 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah there's a billion others too.
But yeah you could say Kobe with Gasol, but Pau’s more gifted than Odom is, and more consistent, is and was.
Maybe i'll start sending Chad Ford the best of BaB commenters
Deng will become the most reviled player in the league.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 10, 2009 3:37 PM CST up reply actions
Bulls do have an advantage
we have vdn….he worked with the suns so he knows quite about the players there…he can assess whether amare is worth it or not, he knows exactly what went on in those locker rooms im sure
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, majoyenrac, Bullshooter and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light!
Bottom line
Is Tyrus Thomas reasonably ever going to be a 20/10 guy? Are people seriously thinking of passing up an opportunity on a big man that has averaged 20/9 over 6 seasons because TT has averaged 15 PPG over 6 GAMES? Amare isn’t a perfect player and has a defensive hole in his game, but pretty much every player that’s on the trading block has some issues (otherwise, they wouldn’t be on the trading block in the first place). People are doing exactly the same thing with TT, Noah, and Sefalosha as what we generally have accused Paxson of doing with the likes of Deng, Hinrich, and Gordon when trade opportunities were available over the past couple of years: overvaluing their ability because we see them everyday. It’s a whole lot easier to find a defensive-minded big man through another trade or free agency in the event that we have to give up both Noah and TT, but finding frontcourt players that can score like Amare is extremely difficult (as evidenced by the Bulls spending the better part of decade in this search). Amare alone may not bring a championship today, but in a couple of years, having Rose about to enter into his prime plus Amare that’s still under 30 very well may be a team that’s a legit championship contender. I feel as though people aren’t seeing the forest for the trees when overstating Amare’s problems and TT’s overall value.
by Frank the Tank on Feb 10, 2009 5:02 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
The forest of knee issues
from the tree of long-developing point guards?
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
I'll be satisfied either way, Amare or no Amare
because some kind of deal has to get done or I will assassinate John Paxson myself.
larry has that system down to a science. Especially with the way the economy is….big wigs like larry coming in dressed in their mink coats and 24k gold cigarrete holders with pockets lined with coke make for a large draw during shift changes.
by BobbySouthSide on Dec 9, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
lol...wow
well before you do the deed, go ahead and assassinate JR too
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
Can someone please tell me what team has won a championship with the main GO TO Guy being a scoring PF that doesn't play defense?
And to make it more interesting, include teams that had a great PG too.
San Antonio
Duncan isn’t some kind of defensive stalwart…especially not recently.
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
Dude.. Tim Duncan? You know that isn't true.Tim Duncan has been on 11 ALL-DEFENSIVE teams.
Besides you can make a strong argument that Duncan is more of a center anyway. My point is If we trade for Amare I still don’t see how that gets us closer to a title if we trade away our current post players. I don’t think there has ever been a team who’s go to guy is a scoring PF that has won a championship.
hahaha.....
We aren’t even a .500 team with out current “post” players….
Your worried about whether other teams have won championships with power forwards similar to Amare…
hhahahhahahaha
Why don’t we start with winning most of our games… then worry about the championship.
BTW… just to be clear, you’re insinuating that it is impossible to win a championship with Amare at PF right? Also, to clarify… you hate reason and logic? Am I correct there?
Amare is a piece, and a big one. We still won’t win unless we have several other cohesive pieces around him. You might counter by saying that you want Noah and or Thomas to be one of those pieces, and I would counter by saying, you put the big pieces in first, then fit the little pieces around them.
Trade for Amare. Keep Deng and Rose. Figure out the rest later.
Ok but how are you going to build around Amare if you have to tie money into him?
Trading for Amare takes you out of anything in 2010 and that’s if he wants to stay here and sign a big contract. I think there’s a higher possibility for someone like TT being an important part of a championship team than Amare. Defense does win championships. Can this Bulls team be as good a those Suns teams that he’s been a part of? And even if so, they didn’t win anything. By the time you’re finally able to put pieces around Amare he’s probably 30 years old and who knows how that knee will be by then.
You trade Nocioni and Kirk...
For either a defensive center, like Camby, or Kaman. Or a shooting guard, or expiring deals… if you go that route… then you sign a defensive minded able bodied center to a mid-level exception size deal. You teach Rose to play defense well. You keep Deng who is a above average defender. You add role players who play decent defense. Preferable one of them who can play some power forward. You try to get your hands on Tyson Chandler, if he really is on the block.
If we trade for him now, we are a much more attractive destination for the 2010 free agent class, except, when everybody else is throwing offers for the max deal at the top five players (which will include Amare if we don’t already have him locked up), we try to convince one or two of the older and or lower tier, but effective players like, Marcus Camby, or Udonis Haslem to sign reasonable deals in hopes of winning a ring.
Trade for Amare. Keep Deng and Rose. Figure out the rest later.
I will say...
I’m please to see Tyrus playing well despite the rumor mill…
In the past he has seemed a little prone to emotions ruining his ability to play well… but I’m watching him look pretty good against the pistons now.
Good for him… I hope we trade him, but I’ll stay a Tyrus Thomas fan.
Trade for Amare. Keep Deng and Rose. Figure out the rest later.
In fact...
You could commend out whole team for that.
Last year, it was the Kobe rumors and uncertain contract status of key players that was blamed for a lot of the meltdown.
Well, this year, we have Amare rumors, Ben Gordon playing on a QO, and Deng trying to live up to a pretty big extension… and we are playing our best ball of the season.
Trade for Amare. Keep Deng and Rose. Figure out the rest later.
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