The word I am getting is that the decision has been made and Amare will be gone sooner rather then later in a move that has been described as addition by subtraction (we've heard that one before haven't we?) and will seek to yeild a great player named Cap Space.
I've argued for patience with Amare but at this point have to agree that it's time for him to go. I just hope the Suns can get a little more then just cap space in return. He has real value to teams like the Bulls, Kings or Bucks and should at least bring back some combination of draft picks and young big men like Hawes or Tyrus Thomas.
From fellow SB Nation blog, Bright Side of the Sun
9 months ago
Illini15
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How about something like
this?
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Feb 3, 2009 2:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Or if they would like a Nash replacement
and an uber-talented big…how about this + a first rounder?
A man can dream, right? ;-p
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Feb 3, 2009 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Instead of cap space, I mean.
Sounds like they’re really, really down on him.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Feb 3, 2009 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
His lack of defense is a major obstacle
It’s going to take some very expensive pieces to make up for that.
Swinging for Bosh is better.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 3, 2009 2:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why not go for both?
If we trade Thomas, Sefolosha, and Gooden for Amare, why not swing Deng, Noah, the rights to Asik, and whatever else Toronto wants for Bosh.
PG-Derrick Rose
SG-Ben Gordon
SF-Larry Hughes (or Nocioni, Hughes is probably less of a cancer)
PF-Amare Stoudemire
C- Chris Bosh
Chicago Bulls Blog anf Forums. NBA Power Rankings.
by Andrew7 on Feb 3, 2009 2:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Toronto will want Deng, Pheonix will want Deng
Any trade talk will begin with Deng.
by J Theory on Feb 3, 2009 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This blog says Phoenix wants capspace, Deng =/= capspace
Chicago Bulls Blog anf Forums. NBA Power Rankings.
by Andrew7 on Feb 3, 2009 2:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
as brought up by the Suns fans
just trade back for Marion then.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 3, 2009 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think
Hang onto Tyrus—replace with Noah, add next year’s draft pick without any provisions and put a one time option on 2010’s pick. If the Bulls are still in the lottery, then Bulls keep the pick. If we are in the playoffs in 2010, we give the Suns the pick.
Bulls lineup:
Rose
Gordon
Deng
Thomas
Stat
with Hinrich still on the team as our 2 next year.
We may want Kirk more in this scenario as our 2 guard, and still have Thabo.
I think a Noah-Gooden-Thabo—2009 draft pick (likely at the worst post trade #18, best who knows…. and option for a 2010 non lottery pick would be quite nice for the Suns for a guy who will likely bolt next year regardless and who’s killing their current team).
by majoyenrac on Feb 3, 2009 5:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
FYI
when it comes to draft picks, while the Suns have their first round pick next year, they haven’t got one in 2010.
(Rrrrrrrrrr!)
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
by marionette on Feb 3, 2009 5:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on what Bulls have to give up in each case
If this blog is right and it’s only a matter of a salary dump (presumably Hughes or Gooden + matching salary) and Tyrus/Noah to get Amare as opposed to say Deng/Tyrus/matching salaries to get Bosh, I’d rather go for Amare.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Feb 3, 2009 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course swinging for Bosh is better
but it looks to me like Amare is much more attainable at this point. What are the chances Kerr helps out his old buddy Pax? Eh?
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Feb 3, 2009 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Throw anything but Rose/Gordon to get him, if need be.
Preferably keep Deng if possible.
Chicago Bulls Blog anf Forums. NBA Power Rankings.
by Andrew7 on Feb 3, 2009 2:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Gordon would veto.
No need agreeing on a trade that won’t be completed.
Chicago Bulls Blog anf Forums. NBA Power Rankings.
by Andrew7 on Feb 3, 2009 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If they come to his agent first it would help.
Pheonix could resign him and he’ll be moving on to better weather.
by J Theory on Feb 3, 2009 2:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Suns are cheap.
If they do salary dump Stoudemire, say Gordon/Gooden for Stoudemire, they could re-sign Gordon to a hefty salary, and rebuild around Gordon.
But why would Gordon trust them, when they have a history of selling draft picks, and let Joe Johnson go to the Hawks because they didn’t want to pay him?
Chicago Bulls Blog anf Forums. NBA Power Rankings.
by Andrew7 on Feb 3, 2009 2:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It wouldn't hurt
considering the Bulls had have trouble with Gordon in the past, as far as contracts are concerned, for the Bulls to bring up the idea to his agent. If his agent works it out and Pheonix back out this summer that’s his problem not the Bulls. It’s worth trying because there is the real possiblity that you lose Gordon for nothing this summer. Best you trade him rather than lose him for nothing.
by J Theory on Feb 3, 2009 2:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Um, what NBA team
is going to “rebuild” around Ben Gordon? Seriously?
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Feb 3, 2009 2:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know right
Why the hell do people think he’s some sort of once in a lifetime superstar.
by gobulls1124 on Feb 3, 2009 5:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody thinks that.
Despite Andrew’s wild claims.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 3, 2009 8:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly my point.
Why would Gordon agree to a trade for Phoenix if they aren’t going to commit to building around him as either the #1 option, or a franchise building block. There is a good chance that they would not commit to Gordon financially, leaving Gordon screwed, without bird rights this summer.
Chicago Bulls Blog anf Forums. NBA Power Rankings.
by Andrew7 on Feb 4, 2009 12:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree about the bird rights
that would be in the back of Gordons mind with any trade. But the point of Gordon being a number one option…. that is never going to happen.
Of course if a team wants to sign you or resign you they plan to have you in their future as a building block.
But again there is NO team that would sign Gordon to be the number one option. Unless he goes to Europe that is.
by J Theory on Feb 4, 2009 8:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gordon would veto...
And BlogaBull community would blame Paxson!
Again
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
by marionette on Feb 3, 2009 3:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt Gordon would...
I’m not the kind of guy that has “unnamed sources” usually and scoff at people who do, but…I did hear 2nd person today from a guy whose close to the players. He said that three of the Bulls players are pretty open about wanting to be traded. From what was said, it sounded as if it could possibly be Gordon, Nocioni and of course Hughes. The names of the players was withheld but the amount of players wanting a trade was stated. Hinrich is not one of them. Dismiss this or don’t, just putting it out there.
by idel212 on Feb 3, 2009 6:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
not Hunter, he could have signed anywhere and decided to come here
Ruffin…same deal. Simmons might want to be dealt, but I doubt it. He’s lucky to still be collecting a paycheck. It’s likely Noc, Hughes, and maybe Gordon (or Gooden, maybe if they’ve made it clear they have no intention to bring him back next year).
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 3, 2009 6:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty sure he was being sarcastic...
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Feb 3, 2009 7:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
or hopeful?
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 3, 2009 8:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have trouble with online sarcasm from time to time
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 3, 2009 11:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would like to announce to the blogabull community
that I am very sarcastic. A very dry sarcasm.
by J Theory on Feb 4, 2009 8:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting to read the comments on that blog...
I didn’t know the Amare-hate ran that deep.
by smash! on Feb 3, 2009 2:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Interesting, yes.
Like a mirror image.
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
by marionette on Feb 3, 2009 3:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The past is prologue.
And there is shortage of hate on this blog to go around. We will welcome Amare with open arms until his problems resurface here…then the Bulls will be looking to trade him for cap space.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 3, 2009 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
jeez
did you catch him smoking pot once or something?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 3, 2009 4:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Problem
Amare’s biggest problem is he wants to be a the feature player, and Bill Cartwright said he is flat out uncoachable, but I would still like to have him, he just needs to adjust the attitude, rebound and play better D, out of all the possible FA he might be the best fit next to Rose
by LOTP on Feb 3, 2009 2:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Need the right coach
I doubt we have that in Vinny.
Miami might be interesting.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 3, 2009 2:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he just needs to adjust the attitude, rebound and play better D
Sound like anyone already in Chicago? :)
by smash! on Feb 3, 2009 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I had the same thought when I read that.
Amare is an awesome talent, and if we can get him the way the Lakers got Pau, we definitely should, but I don’t think he’s the franchise-making big man we’ve been yearning for. He’s a taller, more offensively consistent version of Tyrus (or rather, or what Tyrus is on his good nights). We shouldn’t expect him to be better than he has been so far this year. That’s still lots better than what we’ve got, but last year will almost certainly the best year of his career.
(In a side note: How pissed would D’Antoni be? First, he passes on the first pick, and now his former franchise big man? Ha.)
by arjoseph on Feb 3, 2009 2:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't D'Antoni actually hate Amare?
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Feb 3, 2009 2:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He couldn't hate his production.
The offense was tailored for him. As for personally, you could be right. That sounds vaguely familiar.
by arjoseph on Feb 3, 2009 3:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he didn't hate him, Amare is just notoriously difficult to manage. Probably wore on Mike D
to be handling both Amare and Marion’s egos all the time.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 3, 2009 3:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Except Tyrus actually plays defense.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 3, 2009 4:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Amare played defense for D'Antoni
he just hates Terry Porter.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 3, 2009 4:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bill Cartwright saying someone's uncoachable
is like Jim Boylan saying someone’s uncoachable. Clearly Amare’s learned plenty to get to the level he’s at.
by YaoPau on Feb 3, 2009 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, you don't just pull a jump shot out of nowhere.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Feb 3, 2009 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Btw, We have a Great Shot
If Steve Kerr is going to do a salary dump, I’d assume he’d feel better helping out his old team, than say the Knicks.
Chicago Bulls Blog anf Forums. NBA Power Rankings.
by Andrew7 on Feb 3, 2009 2:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Kerr owes us!
He suggested Pax should interview Vinny, and we saw what happend, he needs to hook us up Kevin McHale style!
by LOTP on Feb 3, 2009 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Color me: Never been sold on Stoudemire.
SSOL played to his strength of offense and on-the-go creativity. Having Stoudemire and Rose as the team’s centerpieces scares me. especially if the team is going to try and play defense.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 3, 2009 2:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
So you wouldn't trade for him
even if all you had to give up was, say, Gooden, Tyrus, Thabo, and a first rounder? I think that’s worth the risk.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Feb 3, 2009 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd think hard about it.
He’s very, very good on offense. No doubt. I just question how good he would be in a system that’s not D’Antoni’s. I want a larger sample-size. Plus, if he doesn’t sign an extension, bleurgh.
If it were just that, probably. Deng and Noah are very good on-ball defenders and that helps. Without a great help defender, though, Rose and Gordon’s defensive woes will be as apparent as they’ve been all year. You’d have to get that defending, 3-pt shooting SG, I’d think. Or just roll with Rose, Gordon, Deng, Stoudemire and Noah and try to score 120 pts/gm.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 3, 2009 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As you said, you'd still have Deng and Noah
dealing Thomas (you’d have to assume) in an Amare deal means you’d still have Noah as the frontcourt complement to Amare, the defensive half. A lot banks on Noah to get his head out of his ass and work next offseason, but if the org. doesn’t think he can do that they likely wouldn’t hold on to him anyway.
and honestly if you have Stoudamire next year I’d be less skittish about letting Gordon go. Still wouldn’t want Hinrich as the 2 guard, but…
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 3, 2009 2:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess you were advocating letting Gordon go :-)
they likely would due to Amare’s ’09 contract anyway.
depending on how much they need a backup PG relative to the long-term salary they’d take, Hinrich to the Suns makes a lot of sense.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 3, 2009 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm open to being convinced.
Obviously, Stoudemire is a big upgrade over Thomas, and it seems pretty ridiculous that I wouldn’t be jumping on it. If they had a coach that either emphasized the offensive end and their strength or emphasized the defensive end and got them into capable defenders….
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 3, 2009 3:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lets settle for any kind of coach first....
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 3, 2009 3:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a fucking ridiculously loaded offensive lineup.
Damn.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Feb 3, 2009 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Amar`e wasn't a bad help-side defender last year when Shaq arrived.
That’s actually his strong suit, I’d say. But his defensive attention/effort flows from his offense. He was the man last year, and so he gave a crap on defense. If he enters the Bulls’ malaise, who knows?
by arjoseph on Feb 3, 2009 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's a good defender as long as you have an athletic, rebounding machine at the PF spot
Like Phoenix did with Shawn Marion. And if you play Amare at PF, then the same thing at center. But, then again, it’s all about what he feels like doing on a given night. I’m so wary of bringing that type of player to be a centerpiece alongside Rose.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 3, 2009 3:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I always assume that at some point Rose will be a good/excellent defender
And that this team will not be complete until Rose is complete, so I’m not worried about the overall defense until that point.
by JeffD on Feb 3, 2009 5:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A long talk with Vinny would be in order.
Vinny would know if he is coachable or not since he worked for Pheonix in the past.
by J Theory on Feb 3, 2009 2:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
But you bring up a good point about defense
That’s two black holes on D. Yikes.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Feb 3, 2009 2:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather be a stingy EC defensive team that wins
than a run around offensive juggernaut like the Suns, Kings, or Warriors that wins.
It’s easy to say that’s just the way I am because of the Bulls and the Pistons, but over time you see that defense is the tipping point. Offense only carries you so far.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 3, 2009 3:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Go back and watch some Knicks playoff series from the early to mid 90's
Then tell me again that defense is the tipping point. The tipping point is scoring more points than your opponent requiring you to excel on both ends.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Feb 3, 2009 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok Charles Smith.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 3, 2009 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Case in point, can't put the ball in the bucket, you can't win
Also look to John Starks deluge of bricked 3 pters against the Rockets in Game 7 of the 94 Finals
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Feb 3, 2009 4:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Championship Bulls teams were
better offensively than they were defensively (Especially the 1st 3-peat). They were slow paced for the time, which distorted the contemporary view of those teams.
by Scotter on Feb 3, 2009 4:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
90-91: 1st in Offense, 7th in Defense
91-92: 1st in Offense, 4th in Defense
92-93: 2nd in Offense, 7th in Defense
95-96: 1st in Offense, 1st in Defense
96-97: 1st in Offense, 4th in Defense
97-98: 8th in Offense, 3rd in Defense
98-99: 29th in Offense, 17th in Defense
Chicago Bulls Blog anf Forums. NBA Power Rankings.
by Andrew7 on Feb 3, 2009 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Damn
I never realized Jordan, Pippen and Jackson meant that much to this team.
by California Al on Feb 4, 2009 2:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Organizations Win Championships!
Maybe we can?
by Granny Waiters on Feb 4, 2009 3:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How do the numbers
account for transitions created by defense?
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 3, 2009 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That is a factor. As Scottie and Michael definitely
created some easy baskets off of defense nearly every game, but it wouldn’t be a huge factor. And the Bulls probably had more ability to turn up the defense in the playoffs where matchups were more important because they had some great individual defenders. Portland was the better regular season defensive team in 92 IIRC and had more good defensive players than the Bulls, but they didn’t anyone approaching the defensive brilliance of Michael and Scottie.
by Scotter on Feb 3, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"but it wouldn’t be a huge factor"
I’d kind of like to know if it is or isn’t. All I got are memories, and a lot of those memories are transition plays off championship defense, and I know this creates easy, breezy, stat inflating offense.
I’m not trying to be snarky here. Me and Tyger do that to eachother.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 3, 2009 4:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can anybody who understands defensive rating better than I
explain to me why Amare’s career defensive rating is a fairly-impressive 104? His 19.2 career defensive win shares is impressive, too.
by YaoPau on Feb 3, 2009 3:04 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Good question.
See, I tried to make an argument without looking at stats and using them to back up my statements because someone suggested that those sorts of things create problems. See what happens? I say possibly stupid things. If I wanted, i could be closed-minded and just believe what I’ve heard and what I think I’ve seen and be upset that anyone dare call me foolish. Instead, I think I’ll be open-minded and read divergent viewpoints, open to arguments both founded in logic and statistical analysis.
;-)
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 3, 2009 3:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I said months ago...
That Amare wasn’t as bad a defender as he gets credit for. I was summarily lambasted. Oh well. I don’t have any stats to back it up, but I watch a lot of Phoenix basketball and he’s not bad at all IMO.
Nocioni has an Olympic gold medal, a bronze medal and a EuroLeague MVP, and now… His legs are broken! Coming to an arena near you.
by Khalid El-Amin on Feb 3, 2009 3:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How many breakdowns does it take
to get sabremetricians to consider what they determine is unknown, but actually quite noticeable with a simple viewing.
He’s a complete player if he can just control the ball all the time.
Then to think, if you just add Shaq he can get better…at offense.
Shoot me. The game is simple. Be aware. Move your ass. Use your body. Make it a wall.
Dean Oliver tells you over and over that this isn’t recorded data.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 3, 2009 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
1st, Stoudemire's boxscore numbers haven't been bad in terms of
rebounds, steals, and blocks so he shows up well in the individual portion of DRtg.
2nd, frontcourt players will always have naturally lower DRtg than perimeter players.
3nd, the Suns have never been as bad defensively as the public perception. And credit for team defense is distributed evenly across the team. That’s why DRtg works much better for comparisons within a team. Or looking at how much a player deviates from the team. And this where +/- numbers can be a big help in figuring out the non-boxscore aspects of defense. Technically ORtg and DRtg could be calculated for each player solely based on what happens when the player is on the court, but no one has done that yet, and it would take someone with a database like 82games to do that.
by Scotter on Feb 3, 2009 4:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's typically been a positive adjusted +- player. He's miserable this year and the effort is not there.
Dude really needs a change of scenery. Really.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 3, 2009 5:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Having Stoudemire and Rose as centerpieces
sounds AMAZING. We can always add defensive pieces around them. But those two together make any offense elite.
by YaoPau on Feb 3, 2009 3:06 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Ding ding ding ding ding.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Feb 3, 2009 3:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Especially when you consider we'd still have Gordon.
Those three would be explosive offensively.
Chicago Bulls Blog anf Forums. NBA Power Rankings.
by Andrew7 on Feb 3, 2009 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"sounds amazing"
That doesn’t convince me.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 3, 2009 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is this satire?
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 3, 2009 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No. I understand it "sounds amazing". That didn't convince me before I typed my comment
It doesn’t convince me now.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 3, 2009 3:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It might sound wise to pass on Amare
for the possibility of a more complete player, but it’s been 8 years since Brand left and we’ve been able to bring in… nobody to replace him.
Here’s the list of under-30 year old, reliable inside scorers in the NBA. And David Lee, Nene, and Okur probably don’t count due to the way they score. If there’s any way to get any of the remaining seven, I’d trade just about anything to pair one with Rose. The list of championship teams without a superstar scorer (Rose won’t be one, nobody his height has ever been one) and without an inside scorer is, well, there isn’t one.
by YaoPau on Feb 3, 2009 5:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I feel like that list is missing some guys
David West…But he only grabs 7.4 rebs.
Zach Randolph…Only TS .53
Al Jefferson…Only TS .53.
There may be others, but these are off the top of my head…but your point remains the same…young inside scorers are hard to find…
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 3, 2009 5:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dwest only grabs 7.4
mostly due to the glacial pace of new orleans’ game
by CJOliveira on Feb 3, 2009 7:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what do you count as "superstar scorer" exactly?
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 3, 2009 6:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
because in the history of the league, there HAVE been players who played starter's minutes at
6’3" and under that scored 20 pts/ 36 min on .55+ TS. It’s just not a very long list. If you bump it up to 22 pts/36 on .55+TS, the list shrinks, and if you make it 25pts/36 min on .55+ TS% it shrinks completely to 0.
The people on the first list…
Jerry West, Gilbert Arenas, Ben Gordon, and Andrew Toney.
The people on the second list…
Jerry West and Gilbert Arenas.
So yes, it is exceedingly rare to put up a lot of points per 36 minutes in an efficient manner (the arbitrary .55+ TS% that you love so much), but it happens.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 3, 2009 6:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One problem with this.
It’s easier for perimeter guys to score today, than in say the 90’s or early 2000’s. When the handcheck rule was put in place, gurad scoring went way up.
Chicago Bulls Blog anf Forums. NBA Power Rankings.
by Andrew7 on Feb 4, 2009 1:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well, it's a good thing that Derrick Rose plays today and thus, has a chance to be
a “superstar scorer”, whatever definition one uses for that. He’s certainly not doing it right now though with his 16.3 pts per 36 mins on .51 TS%. He’s got to get more efficient.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 4, 2009 1:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Iverson is/was a superstar scorer.
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
by BigBenign on Feb 3, 2009 6:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And for the short term
if Rose is really dealing with some kind of nagging foot injury, it would be n ice to get a big time scorer in to take a lot of the pressure off of him. Plus, Rose might actually get good at the pick and roll, which would be nice. That being said, two things about Amare bother me: his knees and his personality. I would feel somewhat better if I had more confidence in this organization and this coaching staff, but Amare seems to be so moody and self-involved and insecure, and this year has shown himself to have a flexible enough compunction/sense of pride to just utterly mail in games when he isnt happy….. Its crazy, if im Paxon I think i have to do this, but after i make the deal I’d be a total wreck for a while.
by TheMoon on Feb 3, 2009 3:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kevin Garnett
is insecure. That’s why he’s driven to greatness.
Amare is much too comfortably self-secure.
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
by marionette on Feb 3, 2009 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
in mentioning the knees, Moon. This actually is more concerning to me than his lack of defense.
Amare rebounds slightly better than LMA, but rebounds are an important aspect of defense. And his help D can be good when he wants it to be. Again, still less than Tyrus and very inconsistent effort.
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
by marionette on Feb 3, 2009 4:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You are mistaken.
I say Amare is insecure because he seems to need everyone to know he is the most important guy on the team; it isnt enough for him to be one of the 3 best players on a really good team. It is clear Garnett is not wired quite like that.
by TheMoon on Feb 3, 2009 4:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone know if this is a reputable blog, that actually has inside sources?
From past blog posts, etc.?
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by Andrew7 on Feb 3, 2009 2:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
to be honest.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 3, 2009 2:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No.
Okay, doubtful. Highly doubtful. I don’t want to slam the door on everyone’s Amare hopes.
Best thing to know (if you’re an Amare-hopeful NBA GM) is: Steve Kerr!
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
by marionette on Feb 3, 2009 3:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"The word I am getting"
what the hell, am I the only SBNation blogger without inside sources?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 3, 2009 2:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
You suck :P
Go find that grapevine!!!!
by J Theory on Feb 3, 2009 2:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ha!
Surely there’s a “source” around here somewhere….ummm, maybe not
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
by NormVanBeer on Feb 3, 2009 2:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the Bulls are the only organization not brimming with "sources."
I mean, even the beat writers don’t get inside information.
by arjoseph on Feb 3, 2009 2:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
they get direct leaks from Pax and Reinsdorf :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 3, 2009 2:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Where is Tech N9ne when you need him?
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Feb 3, 2009 2:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Chicago needs to give me some inside sources too.
But I know Russian. Maybe we’ll need that with Ben again this summer.
Chicago Bulls Blog anf Forums. NBA Power Rankings.
by Andrew7 on Feb 3, 2009 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they just worked the sources
You could probably develop some sources with the Bulls if you wanted to spend the time.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 3, 2009 3:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
oh, so that must be it
I don’t :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 3, 2009 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I expect flags then :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 3, 2009 3:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Vinny has a history with Amare
Since he was the VP for player personnel there. Hopefully he had a good relationship with him – maybe that’ll be a factor in all of this
by kig on Feb 3, 2009 3:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
didn't really think about that
that’s an angle I wouldn’t put too much stock into though. Amare would know that he’s only playing for an “interim” coach, until the real one gets here.
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
by NormVanBeer on Feb 3, 2009 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or that he's playing for a coach who can't control or coddle him like D'Antoni did
And will just do whatever the hell he feels like.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 3, 2009 3:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The hand writing has been on the wall
Amare’s not happy in the valley of The Sun and this has been the norm for a minute now. Remember he and Mike D we’re beefing after they got eliminated from the playoffs a few years ago. Now Amare wants to be the man and the Phoenix front office doesn’t think he is. Shaq and Nash are done and at this point I think Kerr is thinking about blowing up the team. Both Shaq and Nash expire in 2010, J Rich is still on the books and Barbosa has a phta contract as well, I imagine that The Suns want cap relief and picks for the future. We can give that to them, I would trade Kirk, Gooden, Omir and our 1st this year for Amare. It works via real gm and hopefully a real gm would take that deal.
by Bullsfanla on Feb 3, 2009 3:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Get Amare, then trade him in a deal for Bosh this summer.
:-)
by BNeL21 on Feb 3, 2009 3:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
heh
nice
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
by NormVanBeer on Feb 3, 2009 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
While I'm at it, with the crazy talk......
Luxury Tax be damned!!
by BNeL21 on Feb 3, 2009 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here is what I have
This trade is sweet for us! Really one sided but hey whats the harm in trying.
By getting STAT we really get that go to guy, someone TT could actually learn from and play along with as well as Noah. Given the fact that STAT has past health issues scares me thats why i dont want to loose minny STAT (TT).
By getting Barbosa we get real insurance for Ben (if he decides to leave) plus a back up PG ( if need be) who is paid appropriatly for a back up and would by a sick partner with D-ROSE with his speed and attacking nature. Then if we can move Kirk now or over the summer we would be SET!
Basically we would be trading Ben Wallace for STAT and the Brazilain blure!
by Bulls4Ever on Feb 3, 2009 4:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Or this
Chicago Bulls Blog anf Forums. NBA Power Rankings.
by Andrew7 on Feb 3, 2009 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ben Gordon at the 3
And Shaq at shooting guard. Big guard problem solved.
Chicago Bulls Blog anf Forums. NBA Power Rankings.
by Andrew7 on Feb 3, 2009 4:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That is awesome!
I will call Kerr right now and suggest this one
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Phoenix Stan on Feb 3, 2009 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Paxson is on something tonight either WGN radio or Comcast...
Dave Kaplan says so..
by ImmanuelKant on Feb 3, 2009 4:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Suns Owner Sarver Talks
“We have a high-character coaching staff and high-character players, and I believe they’ll get tired of losing and make the necessary changes to get us back on the winning track,” Sarver said before Monday’s game. “It’s going to take the players to embrace each other and support each other and decide as a team they want to be winners.”
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 3, 2009 4:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
yeesh
can we trade them Paxson?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 3, 2009 4:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The similarilty between Phoenix and Chicago is disturbing.
Luckily, the Bulls are up-and-coming and the Suns are down-and-out. So at least there’s that.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 3, 2009 4:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
blood brother cities
There’s so much retired Chicago blood in Phoenix. Half my neighbors have homes or relatives in Scottsdale.
Jerry Colangelo followed this money down the Valley after cashing in his Bulls shares.
Then there’s the Bidwells.
I wonder if Sarver’s getting killed on bank stocks as well. Hopefully he was able to liquidate those shares.
12/31: Fire Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Feb 3, 2009 4:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It figures that Sarver would be feeling it now. Perhaps he’ll sell the team now that he’s destroyed it?
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
by marionette on Feb 3, 2009 5:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Funny. I was screwing around with a trade
that involved Portland-Phoenix and Chicago that centered around Portland getting Hinrich, the Bulls getting Amare and the Suns getting cap space. Something like this -
Bulls trade – Hinrich, Nocioni to Blazers; Thomas and lottery protected 1st pick to Suns
Suns trade – Amare and Tucker to Bulls; Hill to Blazers
Blazers trade – LaFrentz, Outlaw, Bayless to Suns
Portland lineup
Hinrich/Blake
Roy/Fernandez
Batum/Noc/Fernandez
Aldridge/Noc/Frye
Oden/Pryzbilla
Suns starters
Nash
Richardson
Outlaw
Thomas
O’Neal
Bulls lineup
Rose/Hunter
Gordon/Sefolosha
Deng/Sefolsha
Stoudemire/Gooden
Noah/Stoudemire
If the Blazers or Suns want cap room you could easily replace Noc with Gooden or Tyrus Thomas with Ruffin/Simmons. The Suns get younger while preserving cap space. The Blazers get the starting pg they covet. And the Bulls get the scoring big man they desperately need.
I think this trade works for all parties involved and I don’t think the Suns are going to get much more for Amare with his history of injuries, his bad reputation and his ability to opt out of his contract.
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 3, 2009 5:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think if you switch Noc for Gooden, then that's a deal that the Suns would have to consider a great haul
they’d get 20 million in expiring contracts, a solid, youngish SF who can shoot the 3, Jerryd Bayless who could fit the bill as a PG to spell Nash (and maybe eventually replace him), and a guy in TT that can at least match Amare in athleticism and if he ever hits his jumper consistently could be just as effective. I shudder to think what Tyrus might be able to do with Nash directing him.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 3, 2009 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
pretty good.
pretty… pretty… pretty good.
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
by marionette on Feb 3, 2009 6:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
BUT,
on second glance, there’s way too much money coming the Suns’ way. Payroll increases $4.4M this year when they’re already over the Luxury Tax Threshold. I know 80% of Raef’s $ is paid by insurance, but even if that’s enough, it’s only for this year.
Maybe they’d need to sub Channing Frye for Outlaw? (Yuck, a little</em
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
by marionette on Feb 3, 2009 6:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
80% of Raef's money is paid this year...and then it's off the books. Gooden would also be coming off the books
that move saves them money and the salary savings they’d get from not having to pay Raef’s deal would likely counterbalance most if not all of the luxury tax hit they are going to take (haven’t done the calculations, but 80% of the 6.5 million or so remaining on his deal is a pretty nice chunk of change to just take off payroll.)
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 3, 2009 6:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't believe Gooden
goes to the Bulls. I have Amare+Alando+Grant=$18,048,830 (OUT)
Tyrus+Bayless+LaFrentz+Outlaw=$22,465,940 (IN) – $18,048.830 = $4,417,110 add’l 2009.
That’s doubled for $8.83M in LTax payment. Raef’s $12M has $9.6M paid which would seemingly pay some of what they’re already over also. I don’t know if the process works this simply or exactly how much (it’s projected, anyway) the Suns are currently over. My point is that it seems reasonable all around, but the Suns wouldn’t want to pay Outlaw $4M in ‘09-’10.
I haven’t even looked at the Bulls payment on this yet….
"As a basketball player gordon is a useless as tits on a a whore" - BigWay (Dec 2, 2008). BigWank, I'll miss you more than all the others. This song is for you, my brother!
by marionette on Feb 3, 2009 6:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
see my response below
the bulls could send out more expiring contracts and ease the burden on the Suns in 09-10 by taking on Barbosa. There are hundreds of permutations of this trade that could be made. If the Suns are serious about moving Amare for expiring contracts and/or young players the Bulls and Blazers could make it happen and I have to think (hope/pray) the Bulls would be excited to get Amare back in a deal for some combination of Hinrich – Noce – Thomas – Gooden.
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 3, 2009 6:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
outlaw for 4m and then expiring in 09-10 is a bargain. why wouldn't they want to pay him that?
I also just screwed up my reading re Gooden, my bad.
Vinny discovers frontcourt by accident. Someone re-smash Gooden’s groin!
- your friendly BullsBlogger
by fundamentallysound on Feb 3, 2009 6:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i didn't know they were already over the luxury tax
but they have numerous guys under 1 year contracts (Amundson, Barnes) or 2 year contracts. Plus they could send out Barbosa instead of Hill and still complete the deal.
In that situation the Bulls could send out Gooden instead of Thomas and the Blazers can hang onto Outlaw and the Suns end up with $20 million in expiring contracts and Bayless
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 3, 2009 6:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
here's how that trade proposal would look
Bulls get – Amare and Barbosa
Suns get – Gooden, La Frentz and Bayless
Blazers get – Nocioni, Hinrich
Less players involved means its easier to make the deal. Plus the suns get a young player and $20 million to throw at Boozer/Milsap/Gordon or any number of 2010 guys.
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 3, 2009 6:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm also in the skittish on Amare camp
Basically it boils down to several things:
1. Injury issues. I understand he’s young, but he started out young too. His body has been through the ringer and we don’t know, yet, what the track record for guys playing on microfracture repaired knees is. But when I look around at other straight from high school players, they tend to slow down faster. With the exception of the few guys that are either really lucky or really take super amazing good care of themselves, or just have great genetics (or some combination), players just have their limits and then they decline. This is especially scary for Thomas, who’s reliant on his athleticism. He reminds me very very much of Shawn Kemp.
2. Attitude. He seems like exactly the sort of player that the Bulls have traditionally had a really hard time dealing with. A team that successfully makes use of him for a long time is going to have to have superior leadership and ability to manage difficult personalities, both from other players and management. Does that sound like the Bulls? It doesn’t to me. Does it not scare folks that the Suns, who have no less than three hall of fame players in their lineup, are gonna shit-can him?
3. Cost. It’s increasingly looking like he’s really available, but let’s ask ourselves what it takes to get him. Now whatever it is you come up with, ask yourself who else we could get for what you’re willing to give. If you’re willing to trade Deng, Tyrus and a 1st to get Amare, would you also be willing to trade that to get Brand or Boozer or David Lee or Paul Millsap or Zach Randolph or Josh Smith?
4. Despite the low probabilities at this point, I’m still inclined to want to re-sign Gordon. And we can’t give the Suns much cap relief while still re-signing Gordon as far as I can tell. I don’t like Gordon so much that I’m opposed to trading him for Amare, I’m just saying that financial ramifications and its affect on re-signing him also need to be factored in to the equation.
by Sports2 on Feb 4, 2009 7:55 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
On the last point, just playing devil's advocate...
….does Stoudemire constitute a player worth going into the luxury tax for, and would Reinsdorf see trading for Stoudemire as the LTax breaker, not re-signing Gordon to a deal similar, if a little more, offered to Gordon last year? Could Paxson convince him of that? Is that even true (that Amare is worth it)?
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Feb 4, 2009 8:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No.
Look, by various accounts I heard last year, Gasol wasn’t “worth it”. And that was under circumstances where we appeared somewhat closer to being in contention (with Wallace, and with coming off a playoff performance). And to me, Gasol is a more skilled, lower risk player than Amare, though perhaps not as spectacular.
So I think the reality is Reinsdorf will either
1. Never pay the luxury tax under any circumstances
2. Never pay it speculatively. Perhaps he’d pay for a team that was assembled for less, actually won a title, and then had a shot at repeating, or at least had made the finals. But otherwise I doubt it. That’s what I think he means when its implied he’d “pay for a contender”
by Sports2 on Feb 4, 2009 8:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think
now that you have Rose it’s different. I never understood the love for Gasol. Sure he is a good player but he would have to be our leader (with the team he would’ve joined at the time) and he is not one.
If Rose was on the team at the time and you Gasol now you have something.
So in this time period you add Amare with Rose and you have a playoff team. You add a third guy in the mix (depending on who stays) maybe Deng, maybe Gordon. And then you trade the rest of the players for cap relief and role players.
One final thought is that I believe Reinsdorf woul pay the luxury tax but only for a certain amount of years.
by J Theory on Feb 4, 2009 9:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But how do you win a title without going near tax territory?
This isn’t the early 90s where you can sign Scottie Pippen to a 7 year 14 million dollar contract. LA has 50 million dollars committed to 3 players, and they signed Bynum to a big extension as well.
It’s basically to a point where we have to hope a team full of guys on their rookie deals can make it to the semis or conference finals to convince Reinsdorf to break the bank. The franchise is just at a severe disadvantage with that kind of thinking.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 4, 2009 10:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, but I think that's what you have to do
I also think Reinsdorf will go near the tax, just not over until the team has “proven itself”. Or never.
But yeah, I think it’s possible if you don’t make serious mistakes. Let’s imagine we did everything really well going into 2010 and by some miracle we sign up, say, Wade for $19M.
We’ve got something like:
Wade $19.00
Deng $11.37
Gordon $10.00
Rose $5.55
Noah $3.13
Thomas $8.00
2009 Pick $2.00
2010 Pick $2.00
Asik $2.00
So that’s $63M Now over the following couple seasons, we’d want to trade away Gordon and use most of the savings to extend Rose. And we have to extend Noah. So imagine 2011 with
Wade $21.00
Deng $12.50
Rose $15.55
Thomas $9.00
Noah $8.00
Asik $2.50
2009 Pick $3.00
2010 Pick $2.50
2011 Pick $1.00
That’s around $75M, so they’re right at the luxury tax. That’s probably shit or get off the pot time for Reinsdorf, I’d guess.
And does that team actually look like a contender.
Asik $2.00
by Sports2 on Feb 4, 2009 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Amare would be a good fit on the court for the bulls
1. Regarding his injury issues – every attainable big man, with the exception of Bosh, has a serious history of injuries. Amare, Brand, Boozer – all those guys have spent significant time on the disabled list. Amare hasn’t been hurt in 2 years.
2. The Suns canning Amare reminds me of Philadelphia throwing Barkley over the bus. That turned out pretty good. Everything in PHX was going well for Amare until Porter became coach and start to throw the ball down to Shaq. You could argue that he should accept the coaches decision, accept that it is such an asinine decision as Amare is clearly a better offensive player than Shaq at this point of his career. It would be like the Bulls continuing running plays for Drew Gooden with Rose/Gordon and Deng on the court… wait. Anyway, Amare was a monster after the Shaq trade under D’Antoni. Under Porter he is pouting because he is not the focal point of the offense. But he would be with Chicago.
3. Costs. From everything that has been reported (not much) the Suns are interested in expiring deals. If they are, than you have to jump on that. If the price is Deng – who cares? Isn’t Deng being untouchable what has killed the Bulls in the past? Has Deng ever demonstrated that he is as good as Amare is THIS SEASON, when Amare is playing his poorest? But really, I don’t think the cost are not extensive as people believe. I think PHX wants young players on rookie contracts and expiring contracts. The Bulls may not be able to come up with the best deal, but they should explore a deal. And Amare is in a different class of player than Lee, Milsap, Randolph (blech) or Smith.
4. Gordon is gone. And for Amare, I wouldn’t care. Isn’t the whole argument to keep Gordon that we need his scoring. Amare is average 21 pts a game in a BAD SEASON. He is more productive unmotivated than Gordon is playing for a contract. The guy has a per of 20 and all people talk about how he is going through the motions.
So in conclusion, I think we can keep Deng and acquire Stoudemire. If we acquired Stoudemire who cares about Gordon. Stoudemire is the best available big man, IMO, not named Bosh and the price is probably far cheaper. If the Bulls want to continue to hold out hope that Cleveland trades Lebron to the Bulls or Wade signs with Chicago, there is nothing I can do about it. But it would be nice if the Bulls finally got a player that could help them that was on the market instead of constantly waiting for the perfect deal to come along.
People called Gasol soft before he went to the Lakers. Now they just call him all-star.
by Basketball Smurf on Feb 4, 2009 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In Philly's defense,
throwing barkley over a bus is no mean feat.
by TheMoon on Feb 4, 2009 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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