The writing is on the wall and seeds have been planted...for lineup changes
Around the 8:30 mark (after a somewhat tough shot attempt), VDN subbed out Ben. Around the 7:30 mark, VDN subbed out Rose. First of all, subbing out your two best players less than 5 minutes into a quarter is dumb within itself, but that's not my gripe here.
Those moves seemed like a microcosm of things to come. I honestly think the seeds have been planted and VDN will make changes soon. The first player being made an example of, Ben. And Rose to come later. I honestly expect both to be banished out of the starting lineup soon, deservedly so or not.
Vinny now has his new toys and his favorite old toy and apparently he likes those better than his most efficient toys. I think both VDN and the org as a whole view Salmons as the "Ben replacement". Not that Salmons is "bad", but to me, he's no Ben. Averaging 18.5 on a terribly sucky team doesn't get too many kudos from me. When absolutely NO plays are called for your leading scorer and he is forced to do everything on his own, that's a problem.
Of course we all know Mr. Teflon himself, the good ol' cap'n. He's been brought off the shelf, dusted off, and now has top billing. No matter the game situation, he continues to find his way on the court, at the expense of our franchise player. It doesn't even matter when Rose has a good game anymore (as evidenced by his 3rd qtr outburst against Orlando), our captain is the new "closer"...and that just stinks.
I fully expect both Ben and Rose (in that order) to be sent to the bench soon. Vinny is too dumb to expect otherwise.
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I somewhat failed
to mention the complete deconstruction of the player formerly known as Luol Deng, but not really. That deserves its own post.
http://awsomepeoplesearch.com/
Rose benched ?
i mean, Vinnie is already the laughing stock of Chicago, this would make him the laughing stock of the entire United States of America
Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team.
-- Scottie Pippen
by Orlando Woolridge on Feb 26, 2009 12:45 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Too true
If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.
by Chi 'Till I Die on Feb 26, 2009 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
I agree.. but anything is possible with Paxson loving Kirk so intensely.. and pressing on VDN
who knows, Paxson might just trade Rose instead of Kirk for a inside scoring threat…
man up!
Who sells both pitchforks and torches?
We would have to march on the Berto Center if that happens.
Paxson might just trade Rose instead of Kirk for a inside scoring threat…
Maybe we can?
by Granny Waiters on Feb 26, 2009 10:28 PM CST up reply actions
This is ridiculous.
While I don’t doubt Pax likes Kirk (lots of evidence of that), there’s also lots of evidence that Pax wants nothing more than to develop the young players he’s drafted. That was one of the arguments he had for hiring Vinny: he talked with him, and thought he’d be a good guy to develop the young guys. If anything, Pax’s problem is that he doesn’t put any pressure on the coaches, thinking that the GM should stay isolated from on-court decisions as much as possible. Pax would be nothing but infuriated if his franchise draftee, who has started all year long, gets benched for the guy he has been trying to ship out of town for the past six months.
fish man
It seemed to be that Salmons was exteremely favored even before he put on a uniform…
That concerns me…. I hope he proves me wrong.
"Remember, I'm Italian".
if rose gets benched
i don’t think i’ll be able to watch another game this season.
"They should. They better. I'm Vinny Del Negro!"
If Rose gets benched Vinny will get fired.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
You speak as if the Chairman
likes to lose money.
If we aren't careful, the leanness we now feel will be the starvation of those we serve.
by Chi 'Till I Die on Feb 26, 2009 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
You speak as if Vinny gets paid a lot :)
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Well he's got to be making at least $1.5M
And last I looked that’s a hell of a lot of money and I think that would be the minimum it could be (might make more)…
I think you have a stronger argument with respect to Ben than Derrick
First, there’s a history of organizational acceptance/preference of Ben in a bench role – the coach is different, but based on history if Vinny chooses to bench Ben there’s no reason to expect any backlash from the org. People just can’t wait to say that Ben is best off the bench, 6th man role, whatever – the rep has stuck no matter the evidence as a starter. I think it sucks for Ben and is also wrong, but it is easy to see that writing on the wall.
Second, there is some logic to seeing whether Salmons can be the starting SG going forward, at least to see what it looks like this season. It’s a circular issus – they want to see what Salmons can do in case Ben leaves, but benching Ben to see what Salmons can do is almost certainly going to eliminate any possibility of Ben returning, if there even is a possibility left. And Pax was pretty droolish over Salmons in the press conference.
Neither of those factors is present in Derrick’s case. He will definitely be here next year and going forward, and he’s clearly been designated the PG of the future. Obviously, I could be very wrong and these last few games could be the beginning of a trend leading to Derrick going to be the bench. I just think it’s far more likely that each has made sense to Vinny situationally (insert Vinny joke here). No question he’s trying to win games – it’s good for a coach’s tenure, and I’m sure the org wants to get into the playoffs – so he’s going to be more likely to make decisions in the 4th based on a specific game than on making sure Derrick plays a set number of minutes closing out games. A couple of times it has been because what was out there was working, and a couple of times because Derrick was having trouble with defense while at the same time playing passive on offense. I expect in at least one of the next couple of games the situation will change and Derrick will be out there. In fact, I think the Orlando game was kind of just circumstance – Derrick came out for a fairly normal breather, and I honestly think Vinny would have put him back in around the 7 minute mark but the team was pulling away. The only thing I didn’t get there was why he’d put him back in late – I don’t think Derrick’s development benefits from playing in garbage time.
There’s been plenty of arguing back and forth about what the “right” thing to do is in that situation, so no need to restart it here. But I still think it’s a leap to go from Derrick not being in to close the last few games to getting pulled from the starting lineup. I do think they’re trying to limit his minutes to around 30-35 a game going forward, and I don’t think that’s a bad thing personally. Right now, I think Vinny’s just having a tough time getting a rotation down with the new guys. I don’t think he should be having such a tough time, but I think he just isn’t looking at the guys available and having any sort of preconception of how different guys will play together, so he’s trying it all on the court.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
by wjb1492 on Feb 26, 2009 1:36 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Hey Sue,
Did you see that Nick’s going up to Lawrence to see Kirk get his number retired Sunday? I’m hoping they show at least part of it, but more likely It’ll just be normal halftime stuff. Still pretty cool for him though.
I know you’ve said you didn’t watch them much in college, so I guess I’m assuming you care since you follow them now. ;)
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
When I saw the length of the post,
I thought it was Mortimer until I scrolled down and saw the signature. ;)
Wow, didn’t mean to get so long and rambling there!
Maybe we can?
by Granny Waiters on Feb 26, 2009 10:36 PM CST up reply actions
new starting 5
rose, ben, salmons, noah and miller

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